Team Mafia: Gestalt

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It's an honor to be the mods' choice team!
Happy to play anything except the nightless game. White flag would be cool since I played it in the two previous TMs but if we want to save our tokens for alignments that's fine.
Also I've never seen the PT feature before >_>

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I prefer town; wouldn't mind spending a token toward making that happen.

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Thor - WF or Nightless
Llama - WF > Normal > Large theme > Mini theme > Twin Trap >> Nightless
Ffery - Themes > mini normal >> open setups
Nacho - ?

It seems like none of us are really interested in Twin Trap. If Nacho would be happy playing that one then maybe we don't need to put a token on game selection.

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Ok, it sounds like we don't need to spend a token on game selection to make everyone happy.
I think our pick order should be Nightless / WF > mini normal > mini theme > twin trap.
Ffery will probably play the large theme and Thor / Nacho / I can cover the rest with nightless / WF / mini normal our 3 favorites.

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Well that worked out nicely.
I'm perfectly happy going WF or the mini normal, with a preference for WF if Thor doesn't care.
Would prefer to be town; perhaps we just put a token for town on each of us and 2 on nightless?

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I like all of our lists. I kinda figured CES / Regfan would be in WF. Hopefully I roll town!

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Empire, Zachrulez, Tammy all seem like candidates to have received town tokens.

Hard to say how much weight we should place on thinking about tokens; a player with 1 town token has a 2/3 probability of being in the 500-600 (standard town/scum roll) range. It's the difference between 23% chance of being scum (in a 13 player game) and 15%.

A player with a scum token has a 1/3 probability of being below 500, which would guarantee them to be scum unless more than 2 other players used scum tokens (unlikely). Overall a player with 1 scum token will have a 40~50% shot at getting scum in a game where nobody else spent tokens on becoming scum. 2 tokens brings it to 60%. If we're confident somebody used a scum token, they shouldn't survive day 1 without a good reason.

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Well I guess we rolled scum in Thor's game. I don't know anything about the rest of the players on the scumteam.
I recommend killing PieGuy immediately - he puts in the work.

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I'm town too!

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SIGNS AND VOID
Lynch Espeonage. Zar's "Espy would use a scum token" is believable and ~doubles the chance of Espy scum. Zar (and everyone else imo) should be trying to lynch him though.

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GENERAL
Assuming it's allowed I see no reason not to claim our tokens and invite other teams to do the same. I'm not clear on the rules - Can we claim each others' tokens or do we each state the number of tokens used on our own game?

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WHITE FLAG
Last time I played with Ika he really wanted to lynch my (town) slot and we yelled at each other and he became really obviously town.
Seems like a good person to annoy.

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NIGHTLESS
Town
WGE seems town (I particularly like 90) but there are a couple weird-flags. Why didn't he vote SW when he unvoted ABR?
Nothing wrong with Empire so far but he hasn't proven it yet. I do agree with his MS / SW scumreads and there's no way he didn't town-token.
I guess I more or less buy ZZZ town but I haven't reviewed him too closely.

GreyICE play so far is solid but within scumrange.
Not ready to accept ABR town. Valid point regarding SW. Scumtheater potential is unusually high this game.
Sotty is neutral so far.

MS is fishy. Lying about tokens is v sketchy.
SW does sound like scum so far.
Scum


Dubious
Seraphim meh, perfectly reasonable scum opening
Hoopla probably willing to be scum
Eddie hard to believe MS townread is as easy as he makes it out to be.

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WHITE FLAG

WHITE FLAG:
Your early town reads (Zach + Psyche + Oversoul) seem good to me. CES and Regfan both have decent openings so far, nothing groundbreaking. Ika seems town based on my experiences with him. In general, also has one of the most obvious scumgames in existence, so wouldn't let him get lynched unless you were basically 100% sure of alignment if I were you.

Yeah I don't actually have anything for or against Ika at this point. Was hoping to get more of a rise out of him.
Cheery Dog "I did use a scum token but got town" leaves him currently the best scum candidate (nothing's wrong with what he said but token more than doubles his scum-odds).

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NIGHTLESS
MS does seem to be putting in the work but lines like
'It seems ironic how you wish to "avoid a clash" with ABR, yet you "provoke" him and start a quarrel? How protown that would be. Your words don't match up with your actions.'
bug me. Wge made it clear he wanted to figure out ABR as soon as possible because he anticipated there might be problems. If ZZ is right about MS' scumgame being fluffy with baseless ideas sprinkled in, this line is cause for concern.

ZZ 164 was a clever use of teammates if he's scum.

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The background turning to light blue for a second after I post is terrifying.

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NIGHTLESS
Fair enough; I haven't reviewed MS carefully enough to make a holistic judgement.
Beyond townblocking, I think you guys might want to elect a supreme townie dictator (hopefully Empire can town hard enough - you're probably too good at scum for it to be you) because you need 7/8 townies to vote together if scum are recalcitrant about lynching their own. That kind of coordination is hard without everyone agreeing to follow a particular person or council.
A longshot that crossed my mind: Sotty-GreyICE actually has decent scumtheater potential considering daytalk and that they're both strong players who would feel they can survive attacking each other a while without giving each other away. Neither of them are really the type to get lynched D1.

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WHITEFLAG
I don't think I'll get much more out of ika; switched to Psyche. Maybe Psyche will do something useful.
Not scumlisting in thread yet because I want Cheery to post a bit before I point out he is way more likely than a random player to be scum.

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I guess we have to reexamine nightless-Empire; if he had scum in nightless he might switch even if the large slot was scum too.

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SIGNS AND VOID
I see Empire's request for everything I have so far. I haven't really reviewed S & V much yet.
I don't think I have enough time right now to digest the entire thread, but I'm happy to research any particular player or situation on request.
Hopefully I can find some more time over the weekend or something.

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MINI NORMAL
Thor, if you want to discuss a particular player in detail sometime, we can do that. Anyhow, here's where I'm at on your game. I don't have a lot of solid takeaways so far; most players are just kinda okay.

TOWN:
Thor

STD - Thor your interaction with him did a good job getting him to town; I like 67 because he is assertive and trying to focus on solving the game and restraining himself from getting :too: aggressive about conflicts he doesn't see as important.

Fenchurch - I like 92 and end of 101
Mala - Mala is digging in and following up.
Egg - Seems curious and I like 23
SK - I see nothing objectionable.
Jason - I don't really get the votes there; most of his posts look towny if anything. 84 is a reach but it's early enough that that's okay.
TH - 94 feels like the good kind of team participation. Seems to be trying to figure the game out (questions, followup)...
Boonskies - 68 seemed like a genuine enough attitude but I don't really see anything here either.
Micc - I don't care a lot about any of Micc's posts yet.
Sthar - I don't care about a 1 day delay on fulfilling a content promise. Null.
Deltawave - Irrelevant vote.

Pieguy has the potential to be really valuable if he's town but so far he only has one content post, and I don't like it. "Look, a teammate of mine is reading the game, but I don't agree." The only reason to post that is to give the appearance your teammates are scumhunting.
:SCUM

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WHITE FLAG
Ffery, we've received a request for your input in WF!
The game is getting pretty interesting

I'm curious what all of you think of CD + Aero + Ankamius

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NIGHTLESS
Wgeurts is probably still my favorite for town.
MS seems to be town too.
ZZZX is solid but actually could conceivably flip scum (not particularly probable, just saying I don't find him as GODTOWN as most seem to.

Hmm. Empire's slot in Nightless could be scum. I wonder if they lied about how they assigned their tokens (maybe they used a token on game select) to increase his town-prior. Wish he'd have stayed in the nightless a little longer to Town some more before trading. Need to check if Empire participated as fully in other games as in his own game while in Nightless (this could've motivated the swap).

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Hmm, I guess that's a tactic ika could be using. I don't think they've provided any read on me - I've been certified as town by Regfan though and BBT has cooled off, so I don't think I'm in any actual danger. If you want to keep focus on the Large that's fine; I'm hoping to solve this game, lynch scum, and die so I can basically hydra with all of you in your games heh.

I'll communicate what you've said so far.

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SIGNS AND VOID
Vezok seems like a reasonable boon recipient - I see nothing obviously wrong with him. (I took a look because you said you thought he might make a good choice)
If you want, the boon could be used like an extra bane.

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NIGHTLESS
I am happy with how you're playing it Nacho; your block seems good. Hopefully we can get to the confident place in White Flag and I can spend more time looking at other games.
I think the potential for Empire's slot to be scum is pretty high: he swapped out of it and he is capable of making a few Empirey posts even as scum (it's just very draining). He could sub into your sub group for Hoopla or Sera. I do like your scum group in general though, from what I've read.

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NIGHTLESS
Dislike Kagami 666 - Scum are best at showing ire when they're pointing out problems with town posts and I generally dislike "I challenge anyone to X" posts.
If GreyICE is scum he's playing a good game. Haven't done a readthrough but I like his recent posts.

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Consider it done

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NIGHTLESS
Hoopla is very hard to read; I don't think she can be relied upon to flip scum here. I have mislynched her day 1 and been endgamed by her after lynching her teammates D1 + D2 (in hydras with GreyICE for both these games so he probably has similar memories). It's really important to hit scum D1 so it might be better to go for Sotty or Kagami or Zar?

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Bleh we made the same mistake you guys in Nightless made.
Aero and Hoopla both failed town but there were lots of other really promising options
I wonder if it's me or Regfan who dies N1...

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Welp. Not too surprising; could've been Regfan or BBT but maybe I was a little more obviously town / accurate / unpredictable or something.
It will be hard for me to process all of Signs, but I will see if I can pick out a few solid reads. I do think you should be baning sketchy but hard to read people and lynching whoever is most likely to be scum.
I do plan to spend a lot of time on the nightless game.

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I've been kinda busy, but I should have time for some rereads tomorrow.

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Espeonage looks like a perfectly reasonable lynch. The game is a bit long for me to digest it completely (especially since we won't be around after today) but I will try to review some ISOs.

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Wow are they actually going to lynch you nacho
That seems ridiculous to me. Zar, Sotty seem like excellent 'how are they alive' lynch choices. You on the other hand are obviously trying hard to win the game for town.

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Welp.
The big Dead QT in the sky awaits!

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Yay Nacho! You put town into a really good place with your venge-list. I think that's the first time I've seen a good player getting mislynched D2 be really bad news for scum heh.
I'm pretty happy about my reads on your game too, especially if Zar also ends up being scum <3

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I'm tempted to count AD's "I spent 5 hours on that wall" in his favor, but he only sorta shows 'I have read way more than I am commenting on' signs. To be fair, being busy and not participating a ton, then doing some work to try and get one or two good reads and place a vote is a plausible town line of play. AD hasn't done much and definitely could be scum but I wonder if we can do better? I hope to investigate more deeply tomorrow / Monday.

Singer is a townread for me; I have no idea why there are votes on her. Wait there are 6?? I don't have a lot of context on this game (have only looked at some ISOs) but she (And Regfan!) seem to be trying hard to look for scum and get others to listen to their opinions (2356, 2364 are particularly good examples). Empire was looking good until he replaced out (hope he's okay).

Okay I looked at the activity overview and there aren't really any particularly lurky slots. Which means most of the ISOs will be hard-ish to digest. If my reads seem totally insane, they might be (not sure how much damage lack of context does).

Aronis seems fine I guess. Depends on his scumrange; he hasn't made much effort to help town win but there are some posts that would be nice fakes from scum.

I can understand people finding TTH sketchy. It sounds like they're possibly implying they're the unique town role (Alquin). Maybe the plan is to avoid getting lynched D1 and draw out something important D2? I'm not sure how dire their situation was when they mentioned that.

Shadoweh - don't know; will need to reread.

Bulba - meh.

CDB - very sketchy. Maybe higher scum probability than any of the big wagons. Unfortunately CDB is good, so maybe bane them and investigate them? Not sure.

That's probably all for tonight. Hopefully I can do a lot more tomorrow. I guess my big takeaways so far are don't lynch Singer, and seriously consider lynching CDB. Hopefully I can ISO enough people to get some context tomorrow and refine things a little more.

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Looked at Mastin / UT; don't have much to say about them (doubt either is a d1 lynch here).

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Hahaha
Sonic's new avatar is excellent.

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Do the team mafia rules forbid Nacho and I from swapping games even though we're both dead? Actually if that rule were established in advance it could screw with dead men tell no tales so nvm.

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TSO scum is plausible. Could lynch today.

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Your CDB-town points are reasonable. I don't think I've gotten my head around this game sufficiently for my reads to be as reliable as those of the actual players.
Will try to do some more tonight. Both CDB and TSO have post-sequences (collections of post without much time elapsed between them) where they're doing more or less the right things.

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I'm sorry I couldn't load enough of Signs into memory to make a real contribution.

I'm surprised Wgeurts got lynched in Whiteflag; thought he was pretty town...

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Now that we're all dead, do we get spoilers?

Whiteflag doesn't seem to be going well, though they're fine if they land a lynch tomorrow. I guess I did a better job on Nightless reads than WF.
Likelihood of Regfan / CES being town has dropped quite a bit. Hopefully people listen to my warnings from 486. Wish more of town participated fully in D1.

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Zor says there will soon be a place for we who no longer exist.