Mini Normal #1838 Mafia PT
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I don't know about you, but I find playing scum to be a pretty personal thing. Like, I've been mildly successful so far, but what I've done might not work for you.
Here's what I've learned so far:
1) Don't panic. We're naturally going to see the flaws in our own and our teammate's play because we know we're scum. Even if a townie hits the nail on the head, it may just be a lucky guess, or they may be ignored, discredited, etc. Also, most townies don't properly research past days' content. So once it's buried, it usually stays buried.
2) Pretending to be town doesn't mean doing what you'd do as town. Your lies should be as truthful as possible so you don't get cornered, but you've still gotta mislead.
3) Misdirect your associations. Find a town to softly buddy. When you need to distance from scum team, form your case so that it looks like you mean it, but has big enough flaws for some townie to pick apart on both your behalf.
4) CYA. Fact check the thread in general, and your own ISO before you do or say something risky. That way, the few who might dig through ISOs can't blindside you.-
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I know you two aren't super fond of playing scum, but let's try to get through Day 1 with little or no scuff marks. Then if we need to bus to place one or two of us to boost our town cred, we can without being accused of bussing.Last edited by podoboq on Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.-
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I was a little shocked no one said anything either. But meh, there are a lot of egos in this game. Big egos are vulnerable to buddying.
I'd like to ride my "Gamma's protector" act a little further. He really is lynchbait, but he's got an uncanny knack for making it to MYLO/LYLO. So I can either bitch about his wagon and look credible when he flips. or have a buddy when things get tighter.
I do have a consistent issue with my scum play, though. People gut-read me as scum, and then rationalize their way out of it with my content. It seems like most people here are newish, so they'll try to appear rational as much as possible, but if we get too many people content to follow their gut remaining toward the end, I'm gonna have to be bussed.
I'll try to buddy a "logical" player as we go, though.
Prism and LUV, how are you at LYLO as scum? We may need a hero.-
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Never give up, never surrender. When you're backed into a corner is the time to start spinning. That's why you leave little seeds of lies along the way, so you have something to latch onto when you need it. The hardest thing here, is that no one in town wants to take the lead. No one is standing out as a rational leader or a gut leader. I staked out both ES and SS as possibilities, but SS proved himself useful first.
Slog through the mess and the wagons, and remember that only we KNOW who the scum are. Everyone is just guessing. If you can make them doubt, you're still in it.
I'm not saying I'm perfect. I was telling the truth in that my join date here was the day I signed up to join my first game of mafia (I hadn't realized the game existed before, which makes me sad). I still make enormous newbie mistakes (like not realizing that it's best practice for town to announce ascetic right away). So bus if you must, but I think we can win this with some luck and hard work.
Also, Prism, do you think you can find a solid excuse to vote snake again?-
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I assumed Neapolitan would do that pretty well. After all, it wouldn't make any sense for there to be a Neo with two town ascetics. I was going to ramble about how giving a Neo role to town when there are two ascetics would be so crippling, that there's no way to justify a scum day-chat.In post 41, Prism wrote:I'm going to hammer sit, I do not think at all that we can afford to lose you Day 1 but I can't afford to do much more rallying. If Eager does wind up lynched, though, I want to be the one to hammer it.
Given what you said here:
it'll be difficult to sell a Neopolitan claim. I'd start shopping around for a role that would make you doubt two ascetics would be in play.I think we've had quite enough role claims for Day 1, but suffice it to say that I find it very, very unlikely that we have two ascetics. That is, unless the mod is a sadist. I also think it would be absolutely pointless for there to be a mafia ascetic. That is, unless things are far more complex than they appear from my point of view.
My biggest worry, though, is that someone will claim a stronger investigative role, like cop, and blow me out of the water with the Neo.
What do you think of a Motion Detector claim? If it comes down to it? I doubt I'll live to see Day 3, so at this point, my best chance is to stir things up, right? That is, if my schedule lets up.
By the way, do you think it's necessary to pretend to go after LUV at this point? We don't want it to look like you're trying to rescue me.-
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By the way, you've beautifully illustrated why I shouldn't be trying anything fancy so new to mafia. I don't even know all the dynamics yet. I just get impatient, and like to speed up my learning curve as much as possible, so rather than sticking with what's worked in past games, I throw it all out and try something entirely new. I apologize that it's hurting our game.In post 44, Prism wrote:Problem with the neopolitan claim is that you explicitly said "I think it would be pointless for there to be a mafia ascetic" when one town one mafia would make a lot of sense were you Neopolitan. They can't both be mafia-either they're both town or one is mafia. Two town plus a town neopolitan is what makes little sense. Motion Detector can work, there's a lot of them.
If a stronger investigative role counterclaims you that'd be one of the best case scenarios we could get out of it I think. Claiming is your last resort-at that point we're taking what we can get.
I'm not going to do it too much but it's basically my gift to LUV in the event I go down with you. Me pressuring the third scum won't really seem very likely. As far as reducing my own chance of being lynched for trying to rescue you, I'm already very far down that rabbit hole with the eager vote+implosion push. If I get lynched for it it's going to happen anyway.By the way, do you think it's necessary to pretend to go after LUV at this point? We don't want it to look like you're trying to rescue me.
But Prism, I don't think you're at risk at all right now. At all. You'll have the best chance of the three of us to get to LYLO. I'd say, feel free to butcher us if you think you can use it to win some strong town-cred.
Luckily, the softing was utterly ignored. I'll only claim if I'm about to be lynched as a last resort. Seriously, if I make it to Day 3, it will be an absolute miracle.In post 45, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Anything not vanilla townie seems risky to me but that's just gut talking.
They have it out for you and while I can see how they're suspicious of you it isn't really enough to have you at almost L-1. Bussing me might be the best bet to get the heat off.-
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^^ Gotcha
Okay guys, I'll leave this up to you: I've gotten crazy busy at work lately. These last few days' activity level is going to be my norm/maximum. Possibly for months.
If you two think that's okay, I'll keep plugging away, and this will just be my last game for a while. If you think it's a hinderance, or if you think you can get a better shake with a new sub-in, I'll start my sabbatical early. It's up to you (I won't be offended if you'd like to replace me).-
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Okay, I'll stay if I can. I'm trying to help LUV out, since he's vaguely suspect. When eager flips I'm almost guaranteed to be a wagon tomorrow. The only thing on my side will be the fact that I'll be early suspect and no one likes lynching in the first half of a Day. If someone else fucks up enough to cause distraction, we may buy our whole team into D3.-
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Fair enough. She also threatened to power tunnel Dierfire if eager flips green. Someone not-me should point that out when they first implicate either me or LUV over her death.
I think implosion has a few detractors, but I think he'll be given more credit tomorrow. We need to undermine his and nn30's credibility. I don't think it would be too hard in a rational-heavy game, at least I can handle rationals most of the time (like zoronos and dierfire). The people who gut read and conf. bias to support (like implosion, shadow, and nn30) are popular with the pure guts like mariar, penguin, gamma, and ... actually, I can't quite tell where grendel falls. He seems to have a good balance, which makes his manipulation potential unpredictable.
Anyway, if we can reduce their charisma with the low-post-volume gut readers, we stand a better chance.-
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Nevermind, I got it together now. Oh my gerdness, LUV, your ISO looks really bad.
I'm going to put it together in a spoiler and call you out for suddenly flipping on eager. All you'd have to do is quote an argument or two from others in the thread that convinced you to change your mind, and match it up with your final explanation where you attempted to justify the switch.
It should be good enough to settle down those who weren't planning to vote you in the first place.
I'll probably question you once further on your response, and hopefully by then, PP or implosion will take off, and I can "get distracted".-
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Well, my hope was that if I go through the ISO (and do a piss-poor job of reaming you over it), it'll be tossed into the "done" pile for town, and by the time we hit the halfway point of D2, people will be over it (and you) and hopefully lynching PP.
I just need a solid foundation to my transition to him or whoever they fancy at the time.
Dierfire is beginning to scare the bejesus out of me. He's the best spoken, most rational player in the game by along shot. It wouldn't be a big deal except he doesn't seem to have a big ego to stroke, so there's nowhere to latch on. If he turns on one of us, we're probably going down. Our only hope would be hope one of the bigger ego's disagrees, is willing to go the extra mile, and we're in a position to puff them up so they look like they're winning.-
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@mod - thank you very much for prodding LUV too!
I played a game on MU where there was mafia daychat, and a player was apparently meeting the minimum posts with his activity in the mafia PT, but he received no prods and wasn't threatened with replacement in the actual game. It was as good as a scum flip.-
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I really don't know.. with Gamma claiming cop (and we know he's right about implosion), I'm afraid more people are going to vote you. And it's going to be really hard for Prism and I to gracefully back out without scumtelling ourselves later on.
To save face and avoid taking the whole team down, I don't see much choice but to keep pushing you. I keep making empty statements with no new arguments, so hopefully, people will just segue onto PP. If we can get a quick lynch on him, I think that'll buy us another day without a bus.
So, I guess, keep working the bad town/derp-clear angle.
By the way.. I know this is a stupid question.. you're just a LUV fan, right? you're not really him?-
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Maybe. It's worth a try, I guess. The problem is, there's a decent chance that there's another doc in the game. Two ascetics would counteract the benefit of a cop and doc, right?In post 92, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Yeah I figured I'm going to get lynched today unless Penguin massively fucks up and get pushed. Shadow has been M.I.A. so maybe some scum read him as well. Would getting run and claiming lie doc be a good idea? In theory, if no one counterclaims it buys us another night.
And no haha, just a fan. I doubt he knows about this site.-
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Keep in mind though, that in the absence of a protective counter-claim, we'll have to kill Gamma tonight, so a failure to save him tonight would lynch you tomorrow.
Actually, a gambit might be a really helpful way to determine whether there are any protective roles floating around. That is, if you're going down anyway. Chances are, people will ignore me since I'm a scumlean for a fair number of players, and PP will go down today.
We'll just have to hope then that no one is protecting Gamma, because I don't think we can afford another conf. town any more than we can afford to be copped.-
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I'm not entirely sure that I follow what you mean. I'm definitely going to try to make it to LYLO with you, but I'm not sure I'm as likely to win it as you. I'll keep treating you like it's TvT. I was just commenting on our lack of interaction for better or for worse.
I'm hoping if I'm lynched soonish, I'll point to grendel as my partner.
I think we have to kill Gamma tonight, unless we think there's a protective role in the game.-
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LUV, it's usually crazy-easy to get Gamma to change his vote. I've done it twice in this game alone (once to get him off you, and the other to get him off me). Basically, summarize his case in a way that makes it look petty. He'll rethink it and unvote.
I'm not sure which is more your style, but I'd question a) him being on the wagon I'm pushing, since I'm a scumlean, or b) question whether or not it's perfectly normal to change one's mind on reads, based on what the rest of town is saying, c) question his reason for leaving penguin, when penguin was the one who forced the claim out of him, even after he softed that he was a PR.
Or whatever works for you. If he leaves you, he'll probably switch to penguin. Implosion is likely to leave you eventually and vote me again too, so I think we're doing okay.
I just soft-defended penguin, which I'm hoping will scoot people from the fence onto his wagon instead of yours.-
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Nor me. Especially since they're scumreading me. I'm hoping that last comment will knock out any chances of Zoronos being on your wagon.
It's a win-win for all of us if it works. I chase you, they decide they can't stomach it and lynch town. Prism can flip-flop a bit, since he's townread. Then I keep chasing you tomorrow. Eventually one of us will flip (we can't all make it to the end, I don't think) and the other will look town.
One thing though, we can't have any mislynch targets accidentally turning out to be PRs. I suggest we take our most vulnerable target at the end of D2, and I Neo them, just to be sure. Gamma being cop really put a wrench in things.
We'll not be able to get him or implosion lynched, like, ever.-
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I knew I should have gotten nervous when I saw that we have daytalk. The more I think about it, the more dire things look.
we basically have 3 conf. town, and another tomorrow (or one less scum), unless we kill Gamma tonight. But how likely is Gamma to go unprotected?
So at the moment, our lynch pool is grendel, zoronos, nn30, dierfire, PP, and that's it, I think.
Shadow, Gamma, and implosion have to be killed off by us. The best thing we have going for us is how easy all three of them are to undermine. Well, implosion isn't quite as easy, but the other two sure are. We have to encourage anything that takes away their credibility as the voice of town. If they can't hold sway, their power is diminished to a single vote.-
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yeah, I'm sorry. I guess I shouldn't have been so eager to vote eager, but honestly, it seems like I was targeted in the game long before anything remotely scummy happened.
Anyway, I think you guys can get away with letting LUV pretend to be doc, if you're careful with your kill tonight. Or maybe, kill Gamma, and have LUV claim he was jailblocked or something OOOOO! Strongman! They'll believe all the claims if they believe there could be an x-host strongman on the mafia side, right? And it's a perfect excuse to kill Gamma. Their entire purpose seems to be to eliminate a follow-the-cop game.
I was looking up the normal rules, and you only need a single vanilla town to be "Normal". If there's a strong-looking scum team, it'll help.
In fact, my lynch may serve to support that. Have LUV come back D3 and swear up and down and until he's blue in the face that he targeted Gamma. He could vaguely accuse Zoronos of keeping him, or wonder if there's a strongman.
At least, that's my best idea at the moment.
By the way, just for the sake of confusion, once I'm threatened with intent, I'm thinking of claiming Watcher. It would go in theme I could say I watched Shadow because I figured he'd be killed. I have plenty of "breadcrumbs" to support that.-
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Okay, wow.
Yeah, I'm not sure what we should do. If we kill Zoronos, it gives Gamma one more night to confirm another town or find one of us. If we kill Gamma, there's a chance Zoronos will jailkeep him and save him.
Should we play it safe and kill Zoronos, or take a risk and kill Gamma?
wait..@mod, is there any way we can know the order in which actions are resolved? If Zoronos jailkeeps Gamma, and we kill Zoronos, will Gamma still be blocked from investigation?
I'm thinking we should Neo PP, by the way, just to make sure he's not yet another PR or modified town.-
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Thank you!In post 122, podoboq wrote:In post 120, boring wrote:@mod, is there any way we can know the order in which actions are resolved? If Zoronos jailkeeps Gamma, and we kill Zoronos, will Gamma still be blocked from investigation?In the event that a Jailkeeper targets a Cop, and the Mafia kills the Jailkeeper, the Cop will still receive no result.
This page on the wiki is helpful for determining the standard resolution of night actions.
EDIT: On reflection, Natural Action Resolution isn't relevant in this context. An ability happens irrespective of whether or not the person using it will survive the night. For example, a Cop still receives a result even on the night that they'd die. Think of it like throwing a grenade. The grenade will go off whether or not you shoot the person who threw it.-
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Okay, Prism, I'm a little confused about the first post, but I think you're just running over permutations there.
So Gamma is for sure our NK. That makes sense.
I get that PP is unlikely to believed despite a claim. That is, unless he has a claim and a really good story to go with it. However, in all likelihood, with a Cop, Jailer, and two ascetics, we've had all of our PRs outed.
I think I'd rather neo nn30, but Grendel will do , I guess.
I agree too that we have to kill Zoronos tomorrow night no matter what.
Now here's our next set of issues to solve:
1) We're going to be asked to mass claim tomorrow. What are we claiming?
If one of us claims a minor PR, we'll be accused of lying because we didn't counter-claim the investigative or protective claims earlier (though I may have a tiny cover because I questioned Zoronos on his jailkeeper CC to the doc claim, that may not convince the rest that my ignorance is believable). If we say we're vanilla town, (as I've observed in the past) we may be accused of being scum "playing it safe".
2) Who should do the NK?
I'm thinking it's you again. I can totally see Zoronos jailkeeping me, since I'm likely to be afforded a temporary reprieve by LUV's lynch. I think you're off the radar entirely, so him jailkeeping you would be a [lucky] shot in the dark.-
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Also, assuming we can pull off lynching D3, Zoronos N3, that leaves
Grendel, me, you, Dierfire, implosion, shadow, and nn30 D4.
If we don't start undermining one of them D3, I'll be the lynch D4. I think we need to aim for nn30 or shadow. I think we'll really need to start utilizing this PT better to coordinate our sneakiness, hopefully manipulating them to build the cases on each other.
N4, we'll have to kill implosion.
D5, unless one of us is dead, we'll be at LYLO. We need to leave someone behind to be a good mislynch target. I'm thinking that will have to be Grendel. Though, honestly, it would take a miracle for me to survive LYLO. However, we can at least hope to tarnish someone else along the way enough to get a mislynch D6.
Now, one thing I always try to do, is to pick a target and adjust my play to meet the expectations of one or two key players who will be making pivotal decisions at LYLO-ish times. It apparently looks insanely scummy to spectators, but all that matters is what the target thinks.
I singled out Shadow at the beginning, thinking I could ride him to LYLO, but he's lost all credibility. Implosion and nn30 would be my next prime personalities, only, I rode Shadow too hard, and now they don't like me. I'm thinking we should leave Shadow alone, let him get to LYLO (because he's my ride), and try our darnedest to mislynch nn30 D4.
I know I'm projecting far in the future, but if we're going to spin a web, we have to start as early as possible.-
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It's perfect, thank you!In post 131, podoboq wrote:This is a courtesy message. Right now I have that the Neapolitan target isnn30, thatGamma Emeraldis the factional kill target, and thatPrismwill be committing the kill. If any of this is incorrect, or you would like to change your decisions, let me know by the deadline. If I receive no correction, your actions will be registered at the deadline.
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I don't think it's a good idea to let them lynch nn30 today. Not until we're ready for me to be the next days' lynch. Better PP or Grendel.
If we need to work on Shadow earlier than planned, I'll be happy to help. nn30 gets too uppity about how he's read, and so I think if Shadow makes an argument about you, he'll latch onto it.-
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Honestly, the best thing to use against nn30 is the fact that he's generally unwilling to do his own legwork. He instead insists that the "opponent" dig up proof for him to attempt to dismiss. When it comes time, it should be easy to use to our advantage.
I'm just kind of holding my breath for implosion and dierfire's entrances.-
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Sounds good to me. Honestly, Dierfire remains the biggest threat to either of us. I wish there were fewer PRs, so we could kill him sooner.
I could go for nn30 or Grendel. Actually, I think I might try to pioneer PP first. It will look townier to go off in my own direction (something you can use to hop off me) and it'll test the waters against him.-
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- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1538
- Joined: June 15, 2016
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