Newbie 1779 | Spring | Dead Thread

[mhsmith0]

[PenguinPower]

Salty lemonade? Salty/sweet is a thing. Usually good stuff.

[PenguinPower]

You don't have mod privileges here. I'm

this

close to stealing your page top.

[mhsmith0]

So in MYLO...

Spoiler:

ThinkBig is being passive and weak. Alisae is being aggressive and useful. It's actually kind of obvious from behaviors here which is the scum (it was also obvious d2 tho...)

[mhsmith0]

Really up in the air with Chris. I know Mastina said Lemons exit was scummy, but I'm still having trouble seeing that as scummier than the others that left the game. She also scum read him for going after her, but that seems normal for a townee being attacked, however I do see scum Chris doing that. I was sure that was Scum vs Town.

Spoiler:

This is an incredibly lazy reading of what mastina had to say about Chris. Just one example of what she ACTUALLY said:

Okay, I need to summarize that because it got a bit long. (In my defense, I was responding to a very long post so naturally my response would also be long?)

ChrisOrmie is painting the picture that it is bad to do pre-flip interactions analysis, and that me advocating it is bad-teaching-at-best, scum-lying-at-worst.
He holds mhsmith to some golden standard, insisting that mhsmith's play was nigh-god-levels of perfect. (I can quote any number of areas where he indicates as much, but if you iso him and look at what he says I think I don't need to point this out to you because it is really fucking self-evident.)

Contradiction:

mhsmith, like me, was doing

and advocating

pre-flip interactions analysis.

ChrisOrmie is asking for feedback from living slots on a scumteam.

Contradiction the first:

He does so in spite of insisting it is bad to do pre-flip interactions analysis.

Contradiction the second:

He is not taking into account mhsmith's content and mhsmith's reads/wishes/desires, particularly those near mhsmith's death. Now, it is one thing to say, "mhsmith was lynched town, not nightkilled town; there is no guarantee he was accurate". If you hold mhsmith to the standard of a normal player, this is at least a plausible defense, albeit still one I loathe. HOWEVER, ChrisOrmie is explicitly

not

holding mhsmith to the standard of a normal player. He is elevating mhsmith's standard to a player who "should never have under ANY circumstances been the D1 lynch because his play was JUST THAT GOOD". This is not at all an unfair paraphrase of his stance about mhsmith.

...Yet in spite of him taking that stance about mhsmith, ignoring mhsmith's actual contributions to the thread is quite literally spitting in the face of that respect. The first thing I did after mhsmith was lynched was pay my respects to him: I apologized, recognized he was towning it up, and lamented that it was too late to avert his lynch, with a promise that I would take his analysis into consideration. A promise

I made good on

. He felt one of RadiantCowbells(Alisae) and Grey(ThinkBig) was scum, and the other was town. I, at the time, townread both. But I took his reads into consideration and reevaluated my stance, used his input, and formed new conclusions.

This is another instance of a narrative which is ignoring the reality of the thread. ChrisOrmie is holding a double-standard which is inconsistent.
That, not even going into how he is leaving himself an out: he is painting me as being scum, yet leaving

just

enough wiggle room that WHEN I flip town, he can say "I totally saw that coming" and that "it was okay to do anyway". It is classical manipulation at its finest.

I left the interactions point unfinished, but I'll save it for a second half of this.

Being like "she scum read him for going after her" is a clear mark of someone who didn't care enough to bother going back and reading what she said. Mastina's fuckup there wasn't that her reasons were bad; rather, it was that her reasons were GOOD and that she bailed on getting him lynched for bad reasons.

[mhsmith0]

I'm not so confident in Grey/TB being town, and Mastina's reads were not very good on D1, but I trust her final analysis as much as I can trust anyone's. My sheeping of Icy is because I know he is town and his analysis all the way through was logical etc. I'll go along with an Alisae lynch but am not in any rush and may not be able to get back on again today.

Spoiler:

And this is what happens when the rest of town has failed. I feel incredibly bad for oldwino being abandoned by most of his teammates basically all game long

[mhsmith0]

@Alisae With your scum team blown up, your still going after TB. You seem to be the only person not reevaluating your game.

Spoiler:

[mhsmith0]

Nothing I'm going to say is going to change anyone's minds.
GG scum win.

Spoiler:

The despair here is fairly villagery
Also the post is itself annoying, as good town would actually re-up efforts to convince people, to solve the game, to be productive in SOME kind of useful capacity.

[RadiantCowbells]

Aww Alisae

[mhsmith0]

Alisae

Spoiler:

bears some responsibility for a terrible hard-town read on Chris slot, but in general has been adequate. It's not his fault that mastina was vomiting bullshit against his slot for basically all d2, nor is it entirely his fault that he reacted in a manner that reinforced his conf!bias instead of really thinking through why mastina was doing it (because she had a shitty read and was too lazy to re-evaluate) - a LOT of townies react to that situation in a similar manner, though it's certainly a useful learning moment IMO.

[RadiantCowbells]

I would always have lynched Mastina yesterday if they pushed on me in that manner.

[mhsmith0]

Yeah, and I think most townies would as well. Mastina not picking up on the fact that peoples' pushes on her were almost entirely natural and reasonable was one of her biggest failures this game. She basically spent the game living in a fantasy state where her posts were good, where she merited an automatic town read, where only scum would push her, where it was never necessarily to critically re-evaluate her play or her reads (beyond a half-assed rethink early D2 where she couldn't be bothered to look into -Grey- at all), etc etc etc. Her conf!bias and her play being almost entirely removed from reality was really strange to watch.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: Alisae

I'm happy lynching here or lynching Chris.

Spoiler:

Funny how the scum team keeps being "happy" to lynch each other without every actually like voting or pushing each other in any kind of leverage spot.

[mhsmith0]

And that's the game once Chris shows up.

[PenguinPower]

That's game. Sorry, smith.

[mhsmith0]

Meh it was poorly played basically all around. Sometimes shit just happens. Im salty about eating a bullshit loss here, but I also just feel bad for the newbies who were actually trying.