Newbie 1779 | Spring | Dead Thread

[mhsmith0]

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

viewtopic.php?p=8990712#p8990712
mastina is listening and substantively engaging. I am pleased

[PenguinPower]

Could you at least link correctly...Gosh!

[mhsmith0]

I did
I think the spoiler thing delinked it somehow

[pieg]

Spoiler:

B. I'm refering to moreso "What can Grey try to get away with." Here I read the Ulti slot as newbtown. I don't think the Ulti slot in that interaction is attempting to do anything remotely scummy. Grey isn't looking for motivation behind things here. He doesn't even attempt to do anything with that vote either.

actually no I'm pretty sure I'm locking ulti slot in as town just for the shit Grey jumped on them for. Ulti's post was pure, innocent, and genuine townposting. The fact he was flashwagoned for that is stupid.

only thing you're missing here alisae is that you haven't considered distancing. try not to confbias even on trs. otherwise, 10/10 on this grey push, you may have singlehandedly saved town the game

also, i replaced into it so i really had no choice, but the whole faking newbie thing i so so disapprove of. it's bad, cheap play. i replaced out because after darklyn replaced in and was clearly not a newbie i felt bad about there being way too much experience on the table

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

Not to say Grey is incapable of bussing his partner, but it would be very, very unlikely. In my mind if lemonater is scum his only possible partners are Alisae or oldwino

Grey's vote was super obviously a possible lazy distancing vote for anyone who takes like 5 minutes to look at it specifically. It's like town is competing really hard for who can win the scum MVP award

PS

Alisae is the first choice for today vote for him pls

is pretty bad as well

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

maybe I'll keep my sanity if I treat Darklyn as VI and ignore everything they say.

That would be wise

More seriously, darklyn has gleefully embraced a near-total lack of empathy and interest in engaging with Alisae and considering what he has to say. In particular:

I said I'll lynch one of them tomorrow if I'm alive, what more do you want?

is pretty much an accurate description of the persona darklyn has embraced, a combination of utter disinterest in engaging with Alisae's case in any kind of useful or meaningful manner, a "eh fuck it I guess I'll sheep you if you die" perspective (which is just lazy and toxic) and an explicit "this is all you get, and somehow you're unreasonable for expecting anything better from me" ending. There are a LOT of people who willfully embrace this kind of horrible and anti-town attitude, and this is a HUGE part of why scum have a >50% win rate in newbie games despite a setup construction that is, with even a semi-functional town, really really hard for scum to win at.

Like, when town is functional, interesting, interested, and avoids lazy reasoning and shitty conf!bias and loss of empathy, towns tend to really roll through games, with two notable examples from my own experience including:

1753 (my first IC game)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68914
easy town sweep (double newb scum, and a bunch of aggressive SE/IC's who were nonetheless interested in solving and choosing to critically engage with each other, including thinking about when to back off of a case when it seemed wrong... scum had basically no chance)

1747 (thor was IC)
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=68656
not quite as good of an example, but still overall a pretty easy town win. There was a solid POE established early on, there was active effort to figure out the right day 1 lynch, there was active effort to figure out the right day 2 lynch (my saving thor from mislynch, even if PP ate rope incorrectly instead, drastically shortened the game), and from there scum just didn't have anywhere to go


Mastina has done an objectively terrible job of teaching town how to solve, and of setting any kind of good example for openness, flexibility, interest and communication, though it does seem like she's showing HINTS of it going forward. Darklyn has been pretty awful throughout the game, and it sounds like he actually claims mafia experience?

Basically town has had to deal with two serious weights around its neck, and it's often difficult to win in that situation. I'd also note that the two best townies in the game, me and RC, were gone by night 1, one from a pretty shitty mislynch (driven the two badtowns no less ), and one from subout, which has left town pretty bereft of solving ability, which is really unfortunate for dogwatch and oldwino, both of whom seem to legitimately be TRYING in this one, but who have been pretty badly let down by their teammates.

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

I just promised I'd lynch one of your scumreads tomorrow if I lived (and even if I don't I'm sure Icy and oldwino will)

Doubling down on his horrible post is just horrible. If he's actually experienced as he claims, then he has an INCREDIBLE amount to learn about playing as town (though honestly this was pretty obvious from our d1 theory debate).

[pieg]

mmmmmmmm i want to play games with you smith

[mhsmith0]

Well based on that I'd say you're not actually pieguyn then

[mhsmith0]

I actually thought about putting this in my sig for a bit

Subject: New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball Scum PT

pie vs smith is savage

except that I have a rule of only using quotes from games I win in the sig (well, that and quotes about my modding... and quotes not about mafia... )

[mhsmith0]

I kinda feel like this should be dark's new sig
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQGOJXbQh1I

[pieg]

yes my username was poorly thought out

[pieg]

people have been consistently mistaking me for pieguyn and i cannot exactly blame them

[mhsmith0]

FWIW, I'd note that mastina's meta read of me (the "balanced" stuff) is SOMETIMES accurate, but is often not accurate, and sufficiently often inaccurate that it struck me as made up on her end. My guess is she was just being ridiculously lazy about it, looking at like one game and/or flat-out sheeping the language used in the title fairy thread.

[Postie]

I mean the stuff she said about RC's meta was pretty trash too.

[mhsmith0]

Watching town implode from dead chat is WAY more fun when you're a wolf

[pieg]

I mean the stuff she said about RC's meta was pretty trash too.

you know rc's meta?

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

If you believe that scum team then why not vote with Dark/Mastina?

Slightly more confident in the lemon slot being scum than alisae.

There's also something to be said for the ulti/pieg/lemon slot being replaced AGAIN.

*hugs*

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

so now both scum have apparently strategically replaced out (ulti/lemon slot TWICE) and they're wagoning alisae instead, because "we will learn more". Jfc

[Postie]

I mean the stuff she said about RC's meta was pretty trash too.

you know rc's meta?

I know he isn't and doesn't consider himself to be "nigh-immortal" or capable of "obvtowning" as "either alignment".

[mhsmith0]

Spoiler:

Sometimes you have to "take one for the team". If she is town she still wins when we win.

That is an absolutely disgusting attitude and if anyone actually taught him that, they should be ashamed of themselves. You don't meekly accept your mislynch in the hopes that somehow town might sheep your reads (which may or may not be any good anyway) in future days.

This is ABSOLUTELY where mastina, as an IC, should be intervening to shut down that kind of toxic and anti-town attitude. I really really hope she bothers to do so.

[Postie]

Spoiler:

Sometimes you have to "take one for the team". If she is town she still wins when we win.

That is an absolutely disgusting attitude and if anyone actually taught him that, they should be ashamed of themselves. You don't meekly accept your mislynch in the hopes that somehow town might sheep your reads (which may or may not be any good anyway) in future days.

This is ABSOLUTELY where mastina, as an IC, should be intervening to shut down that kind of toxic and anti-town attitude. I really really hope she bothers to do so.

Seconded.

[pieg]

it's self-perpetuating. bad town play means that town is unable to remove their bias until they see the flip and so town players just want to die out of frustration to get people somehow hopefully back on the right track

unfortunately bias tends to persist even after such flips

[pieg]

Spoiler:

oh god, this game is really quite painful to watch. these newbies just have no one to guide them or teach them and they're floundering.