Role Call I: Dead/spectator thread

[callforjudgement]

Creature #2326 "I hope the mod townsided the night actions in compensation.": I did. I think the mechanic is scumsided so I balanced the game accordingly.

[Vecna]

BP - apthet
Captain - momo
Neighbor - Gamma
Day 3 Post restricted - Bingle
Psychologist - pops
Tracker - Vecna
Revisor -
Chronomage -
Doublevoter -
Treestump -
Lynch -
Thoughts from role list.

Such posts always trigger me. Like, it just looks like he's trying to force a fake townslip

Like Jingle is gonna post a role assignment and not be aware of the person that died in the NK? Really?

[Vecna]

PK is my strongest townread, apthet p much guaranteed gets BP because I think that was the strongest town role yesterday.

At least he made the right call there

[callforjudgement]

I'm not used to getting this many rules questions.

That said, I should have expected this after creating a game with over 50 potential roles in it. (Almost every usable role from the wiki is there, with the exception of things like Doctor that might potentially lead to more living players and thus even more roles to find.)

[Vecna]

so technically the mafia can choose to no kill to make you run out of setup? :p

[Iconeum]

so technically the mafia can choose to no kill to make you run out of setup? :p

you've just discovered how the mod can lose a game

[callforjudgement]

Subject: Role Call I (Day 2)

• Eliminate
  (
  Night
  ,
  Factional
  ). Choose a player. That player will be eliminated. This action is compulsive; one of your number
  must
  use it every night.

[Iconeum]

so technically the mafia can choose to no kill to make you run out of setup? :p

that's impossible, mafia are forced to kill

anyone knows that

[Iconeum]

[Iconeum]

Curious so i'll ask here:

They are saying in game my lynch was a policy lynch.

What policy?

[callforjudgement]

The only explanation I can see is #174.

[callforjudgement]

CheekyTeeky seems to be acting like she has a Loyal Cop ability, rather than a Friendly Neighbour ability. I'm not sure if anyone's going to correct her. (This made me double-check the wording of the Invention; it's described correctly.) There's nonetheless no point in tracking her, though, because the ability still targets regardless of whether town or scum use it, so if her target is rolestopped it won't reveal anyone's alignment.

[Iconeum]

The only explanation I can see is #174.

That would be pretty weak tho.

[callforjudgement]

I don't want to reply to Dunnstral's rant (#2932) in the main game thread in case it biases the game, but I agree that the interactions around this are a mess. (This basically happens because hardly anyone actually edits the wiki; I've been updating the pages one at a time but haven't really done anything to that one yet, the only time I edited it was when I was recategorising every role page on the wiki.) I've been trying to make a standard version of every role that makes sense in both Normal and Theme games (and fits the Normal guidelines in the Normal case), but it's often hard to sort out all the interactions (and this game has revealed at least two problematic/undefined Normal interactions already).

FWIW, I like to make a distinction between "block" and "protect", and think it's most consistent for Macho to give immunity to protections but not to blocks more generally. I'm not sure that that's Normal, though; normally when there's an awkward action resolution we just alter the setup to prevent it coming up in the first place (e.g. by changing Macho to Ascetic). Perhaps someone needs to sit down and work through every pair of Normal roles and make sure the interaction is defined properly.

(There's also the possibility that the Normal guidelines for the role were written without actually reading the article, and just copy-pasted over. In that case, probably the article's lead needs to change to match.)

I'll have to see if I can fix this after the game.

[Vecna]

This game sure seems to be moving slowly.

I also really dont get why people think its a good idea to treestump Momo while he's this willing to be treestumped. Treestump AP already?

[callforjudgement]

Bingle #3123 "Did cfj even consider the potential for modkills in his setup to begin with?": yes, I did. When town gets modkilled, force Compulsive Quitter onto the modkililed player (penalty for town). When scum gets modkilled, remove their nightkill that night (penalty for scum).

I've been known to use creative modkill compensations in other setups, too; it's something that I try to think about whenever I create a mechanically nonstandard setup.

[callforjudgement]

Bingle #3132 "I have thoughts to improve the setup, but now isn't the time I don't think.": it's easier to discuss the setup when you can see what I'm saying, rather than me having to post it in the dead thread to avoid creating any potential bias in the game.

[Creature]

Sorry, but the way we need to approve a proposal to lynch someone takes a huge part of the mafia aspect and makes dayplay a complete crapshot.

[callforjudgement]

I did my best to offer a normal voting system as a subsidiary, for if town preferred that, but hardly anyone used it. FWIW, I normally read people based on their stated reads, rather than treating their actual votes as the main indicator of their views; is it common for people to read purely based on VCA?

In other news, any guesses as to who's scum?

[Creature]

No one will use an unofficial votecount if it does absolutely nothing

[callforjudgement]

It only does nothing if you choose for it to do nothing.

[Creature]

You probably need to make lynching completely independent from the proposal mechanism for there to have an actual dayplay

[Creature]

Most likely I'd be more than pleased if this concept of publicly distributing roles is permanently scrapped.

[callforjudgement]

Well, I created it based on public demand and lots of people (including both reviewers) were really excited by the idea.

I think the problem is simply that there weren't enough players who really liked the mechanic (and some of the players who did died early, always a risk when the scum have the nightkill), and the problem only got worse as the number of replacements increased. When people disengage with the game, that makes it quite likely that their faction's going to end up being hurt as a result. I was seriously considering delaying the game until a time of year with more players available when it failed to fill quickly, but was persuaded not to; I should probably have ignored that and delayed the game anyway.

[Creature]

Ftr I don't hate you as a mod. You thought your concept would work, so did I when I replaced in and experimental failures are going to happen anyway.