Mini 1250: That 70s Smalltown - GAME OVER

[Quilford]

Also how am I defending iamausername?

[Seacore]

I have no idea what CS is saying, can somebody translate?

[farside22]

@Seacore: You said early in the discussion for kdown to prove himself he has to scum hunt.
Don't you find your comments during this discussion hypocritical?


@Quilford: What about iam's reaction was scummy?

Also, perhaps you might consider that iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me as a reason for me being irritated instead of setting up your false dichotomy.

How?
Did you really think no one would ask about why you were claiming players were scum in the middle of a serious conversation?

I have no idea what CS is saying, can somebody translate?

No, but it makes my scum senses tingle.

[ConSpiracy]

...

wait, what?

I never said it was a joke in the first place. It was a reaction test.

Also how am I defending iamausername?

Let's answer those with this sentence:

Also, perhaps you might consider that iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me as a reason for me being irritated instead of setting up your false dichotomy.

1. You called it a joke yourself
2. "At least iam did this, while you are doing this"- is defending iam's reasoning to me.

I have no idea what CS is saying, can somebody translate?

This was uncalled for. I am not the best player with wording myself right, but it is recognisable.

No, but it makes my scum senses tingle.

Lawl, it's your turn on me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Kdowns comes out clearly ahead in the Seacore versus Kdowns debate.

@Farside

– is your meta hate for Conspiracy greater than your meta hate for me?

@Conspiracy

– so in 121 you properly call out Seacore on his scummy play and then vote Quilford for making what you call a joke? Explain how what he did was scummy at all.

--

Kdowns he has a point. If we HAD to lynch right this instanr, youd be the best bet

No, by the time you posted this (106) either Seacore or Iam would be better lynchs than policy.

--

Day 1 is nearly always a random lynch, since nobody has good evidence yet, unless somebody wants to claim scum?

This is a load of tripe. I can point you to any number of Mini Theme games where solid scum-hunting lead to a scum lynch.

But to follow up. Do you believe that pushing your lynch on the basis of your role is a scummy action?

Why would scum want this? Which of us currently voting for you is scummier due to our case/vote?

Pushing a policy lynch over actual scum-hunting is a scum-move. Absolutely. You may be positioning it as "Gettin out of RVS". But you are specifically doing it in a scummy way and getting attention for it should be expected.

Why would scum want a mislynch Day 1 that they masked under the guise of ‘optimized Game Theory’? Are you seriously asking that question?

Conversley, there are 4 scum lynches out there. Some of them have really minor side effects for the scum, like losing Bob,

since we as town would probably end up dictating (to a certain degree) where the inventions go anyway.

And the bolded is why my vote is staying with you and is now non-RVS.

Directing Town actions, especially minor ones like Bob’s inventions, overwhelmingly benefits Scum. The uncertainty of what is going to happen at Night is one of the things that keeps Scum honest. Having a full road-map of what is going to happen only lets Scum plan their Night actions more effectively.

Lynching Scum-Seaore before this happens - small gain to town (due to elimination of noise) small loss to scum (they get to work out that somebody isn't the SK)

You couldn’t have this more wrong.

Lynching scum is a Major gain to Town. Putting it any other way is absurd.

How's your scum hunting going? I see some great substance in your posts, I can see how your method is much better than mine.

Further evidence that you need to die. Farside is calling you out as scum for your stance and lack of any drive to scum-hunt. All you’ve done is argue policy lynching with kdowns very ineffectively.

Farside is scum-hutning you. You are doing nothing and this attempt at rhetoric driven dismissal raises my scum-read on you.

--

farside should definitely be saving her ability for taking

Seacore's ability when he is inevitably killed before D3.

(Even if he's scum, the SK will want to be rid of him too, so.) The only other role that I might see her taking is the tracker. She should not have the option of taking any role that would help her as scum in any way.

Quilford should be jailing Seacore every night.

If Seacore is scum, it keeps him from making the kill, if he's town, it keeps him alive.

Yeah, this “Player X” must do Y looks very much like you are grasping too hard for Town cred by positioning yourself as “Town leader”.

The bolded paragraphs don’t make sense. If Quilford JKs him Night one he absolutely survives to Day 2. If Quilford dies overnight then Jason insures that Seacore lives to the end of Day 3 to give his innocent. Assuming that Quilford and Jason are alive at N1 there is no chance that Seacore doesn't live to Day 3 (unless he is lynched as scum of course).

There are any number of roles that farside’s ability should consider if he is Town. Trying to limit it to only Tracker or Innocent Child Cop is rather foolish.

But let’s talk about your theory that Leo’s ability is worth defending – a single Innocent role is useful but hardly game-breaking. Farside using the Universal Backup potentially on a role that doesn’t find scum is hardly optimal, IMO.

Furthermore your position that Caroline is worried about a single confirmed Innocent when she has to wipe out everyone is pretty laughable. Ooba’s Stardust SmallTown Mafia proves that the SK has to be shooting for scum as they can easily NK her or endgame her.

And even furthermore why would a “Mod innocent” given to theoretical scum Seacore be trustworthy in the first place?

TL-DR

: You are over-valuing the importance of Seacore’s role.

His role has by far the highest ratio of worth to scum/worth to town.

So what. We don’t lynch on set-up speculation. Sorry, that’s scum-talk right there.

At some point, we're going to want to lynch MoI with all the scummiest players on the wagon, but that's something to save for a later day.

Oh, so even if I am the Towniest Town that ever Towned you think policy lynching me based on role is a good idea instead of just lynching the actual scummy players you are wanting on my wagon? Good to know. In this case that means 'Thanks for the scummy position'.

[Quilford]

Also, perhaps you might consider that iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me as a reason for me being irritated instead of setting up your false dichotomy.

1. You called it a joke yourself
2. "At least iam did this, while you are doing this"- is defending iam's reasoning to me.

1. I called it a joke because you had called it a joke in the post prior. I was just copying your language. My initial response to iamausername pretty clearly indicates it was a reaction test, not a joke.
2. I am offering an alternate explanation for why I am irritated.

PEDIT: Heyy, MoI has a scumread on Seacore

I like it

[farside22]

@Farside – is your meta hate for Conspiracy greater than your meta hate for me?

Haha. CS and I have been a hydra for 2 games now. I feel I know his meta best. I'm already bothered by how he interperts Quilfords post. I'll explain this a bit further down.
As for you, well I am happy to have correctly called you town in many of our past games.
What was your thought process for picking Vengeful townie?


Lets do the break down:

Quil posted

Reactions, which get me reads.

For example, the scumread I just attained on you.

CS responded:

[quoted]Really Quilford, if it was a joke you wouldn't have answered this irritated.[/quote]

Now lets look at CS's comments here:

1. You called it a joke yourself
2. "At least iam did this, while you are doing this"- is defending iam's reasoning to me.

1. CS called it a joke first
2. Is not defending Iam.


@Quilford I asked you some questions above. Please provide answers to them.

[ConSpiracy]

@Conspiracy

– so in 121 you properly call out Seacore on his scummy play and then vote Quilford for making what you call a joke? Explain how what he did was scummy at all.

His reaction on Iam's calling out for it.
First he wants to know why he was called out for it and then he reacts all irritated as to why he did it. (makes it reaction testing, etc)

Also, perhaps you might consider that iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me as a reason for me being irritated instead of setting up your false dichotomy.

1. You called it a joke yourself
2. "At least iam did this, while you are doing this"- is defending iam's reasoning to me.

1. I called it a joke because you had called it a joke in the post prior. I was just copying your language. My initial response to iamausername pretty clearly indicates it was a reaction test, not a joke.
2. I am offering an alternate explanation for why I am irritated.

1. Apparently it wasn't reaction testing enough to say that.
2. Okay, I read that sentence completely wrong. I read it as "Iam used my joke to accuse me, you are setting up a false dichotomy."

Nice avoiding of the explanation of the false dichotomy, though. I still am interested in it.

1. CS called it a joke first

I call it a joke.

Quilford calls it a joke

.
I call it a joke again.

Quilford says it isn't a joke.

I say he calls it a joke himself.

You bring up that I call it a joke first

.
Farside, you may tell me which two steps contradict themselves and which one is completely irrelevant.
(Hint: They are bolded)

[Quilford]

I called it a joke because you called it a joke. I was simply adapting my language so that you would know what I was talking about, and I hadn't actually stopped to think about the fact that it wasn't.

You set up the false dichotomy that it not being a joke = me being irritated when in actual fact it was iamausername using it to level accusations at me = me being irritated.

[The Fonz]

Farside22 (1) hiplop
MagnaofIllusion (2) mb53

ConSpiracy (3) kondi2424 Farside22 Quilford

IceGuy (0)
Quilford 1) ConSpiracy
hiplop (1) kdowns
iamausername (0)
jasont1981(0)
kondi2424 (1)
Seacore (1) MagnaofIllusion
kdowns (2) iamausername Seacore
mb53 (1) jasont1981

Not voting: IceGuy

The player who would be lynched if deadline hit without any changes will be in

bold

in each votecount. A reminder that a tie at deadline will result in no lynch.

[iamausername]

iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me

When? What accusation?

Directing Town actions, especially minor ones like Bob’s inventions, overwhelmingly benefits Scum. The uncertainty of what is going to happen at Night is one of the things that keeps Scum honest. Having a full road-map of what is going to happen only lets Scum plan their Night actions more effectively.

Last time I played in a Smalltown game, town secured a guaranteed victory on D2 by coordinating night actions, so I think I can say with some certainty that you are wrong here.

In most games, co-ordinating night actions is a bad idea because it requires revealing the power roles to scum. In this game, everyone already knows who the power roles are. Not discussing what to do with them is a waste of that knowledge.

There are some roles, like the tracker, that shouldn't be directed at the moment, sure. But allowing a total free for all at night makes it a lot easier for scum to do whatever they feel like, just as much as planning out every single action would. The ideal is somewhere in the middle.

There are any number of roles that farside’s ability should consider if he is Town. Trying to limit it to only Tracker or Innocent Child Cop is rather foolish.

Let's see now.

Vengeful - I guess I can see a situation where we the numbers make it so we'll want to pull the 'scummy player lynching vengeful' deal twice, but in a situation where that would benefit us, there would probably be better plans available.

Neighbourizer - Pretty useless. It's a confirmable night action, so all it does for scum is tie them up at night, but it doesn't really help us either.

Invisible Townie - Massive scum benefit, but it's unavailable anyway.

Double Voter - Hell no.

Kill Delayer - Minor benefit to either scum or town. I guess it might be worth considering this one.

Self-Watcher - What's the point? There's basically no one going to target her that she wouldn't know about anyway.

Jailkeeper - Way too beneficial to scum.

Inventor - Again, way too beneficial to scum. Could give her scum buddies an extra kill and bring Lylo forward by nullifying a town vote. No.

Copycat - Don't see any benefit to this. If there was a vig around, maybe, but there isn't.

Limited Bulletproof - Actually, since this doesn't affect the SKill, it's no use at all to scum, but it could still benefit an SK. Doesn't really help the town, anyway.

I mean, yeah, perhaps I'm being a little overzealous, but the main thing is that I don't want to give a scum farside any leeway to be taking a role like the Jailkeeper or the Inventor, which would be extremely beneficial to scum in late game.

But let’s talk about your theory that Leo’s ability is worth defending – a single Innocent role is useful but hardly game-breaking. Farside using the Universal Backup potentially on a role that doesn’t find scum is hardly optimal, IMO.

Furthermore your position that Caroline is worried about a single confirmed Innocent when she has to wipe out everyone is pretty laughable. Ooba’s Stardust SmallTown Mafia proves that the SK has to be shooting for scum as they can easily NK her or endgame her.

And even furthermore why would a “Mod innocent” given to theoretical scum Seacore be trustworthy in the first place?

TL-DR

: You are over-valuing the importance of Seacore’s role.

You may be right here. I think you're under-valuing it somewhat - by D3, there will be few enough players left that a confirmed innocent would probably have a pretty huge impact, but somehow I didn't consider the fact that a scum Seacore's result wouldn't be trustworthy.

Still think JKing him would be the smart choice, though. He's worth protecting if he's town, and he's worth blocking if he's scum. Even if scum know he's being blocked, it causes them a headache if he's their only guy without another night action to perform, because they'll have to fakeclaim an action to make the kill in that situation.

His role has by far the highest ratio of worth to scum/worth to town.

So what. We don’t lynch on set-up speculation. Sorry, that’s scum-talk right there.

It's not setup speculation. It's setup fact.

Oh, so even if I am the Towniest Town that ever Towned you think policy lynching me based on role is a good idea instead of just lynching the actual scummy players you are wanting on my wagon? Good to know. In this case that means 'Thanks for the scummy position'.

Yes. Unless you are literally 100% confirmed town somehow, you should be lynched at some point. Your role = free lynch. Sorry if you're scum and you picked a guaranteed to be lynched role, but you know, you only have yourself to blame.

What was your thought process for picking Vengeful townie?

Seeing as how roles were picked before alignments were handed out, what is the point of this question?

[MagnaofIllusion]

What was your thought process for picking Vengeful townie?

It was a combination of playing to my wincon and a little bit of greediness.

Wincon -

1. If I drew Town I wanted to be sure any scum did not have access to it as it gives scum a free kill. Reducing the number of kills in a Small game is paramount to Town’s success IMO. Dayplay needs as many shots as possible to get scum lynches.
2. If I drew Mafia / SK it helps my wincon to varying degrees.

I think it is the number 1 role that benefits whatever Wincon is drawn directly. Thus I was glad to get it.

Greed –

After ooba’s SmallTown Stardust I understood the folly of taking a Powerful Town role (RB). Thus I wanted whatever scum might be shooting at me (this applies regardless of whatever alignment I draw) to have to choose over possibly stronger non-aligned roles like Tracker and JK. Thus if I play a strong game (and I expect to) I wanted to make the choice tough for whoever wanted to kill me.

As for you, well I am happy to have correctly called you town in many of our past games.

It wasn’t that long ago that you called for my head immediately every game.

--

Last time I played in a Smalltown game, town secured a guaranteed victory on D2 by coordinating night actions, so I think I can say with some certainty that you are wrong here.

So you want to coordinate Night actions Day 1 before lynch when it worked on DAY 2 in the game you are talking about?

But please elaborate on the facts of that game. Was it played here? If so link? What happened Day 1? What was the role make-up of the game? Did it have a Serial Killer?

There are some roles, like the tracker, that shouldn't be directed at the moment, sure. But allowing a total free for all at night makes it a lot easier for scum to do whatever they feel like, just as much as planning out every single action would. The ideal is somewhere in the middle.

So here you are not representing my position. I’m specifically attacking Seacore for trying to direct Minor actions like Bob. That’s exactly along the lines of trying to plan out every action.

Still think JKing him would be the smart choice, though. He's worth protecting if he's town, and he's worth blocking if he's scum. Even if scum know he's being blocked, it causes them a headache if he's their only guy without another night action to perform, because they'll have to fakeclaim an action to make the kill in that situation.

And it assures the scum NK isn’t blocked. Only if he is Caroline is it absolutely beneficial and even then we will not know until the end of the next day.

As stated above – reducing NKs to extend the Daygame is paramount IMO.

It's not setup speculation. It's setup fact.

Word-lawyer all you wish … whatever you want to call it, it is NOT scum-hunting.

Yes. Unless you are literally 100% confirmed town somehow, you should be lynched at some point. Your role = free lynch. Sorry if you're scum and you picked a guaranteed to be lynched role, but you know, you only have yourself to blame.

Your further insistence on not actually looking at play but using personal Mafia theory to back your position is noted for scuminess.

[ConSpiracy]

I called it a joke because you called it a joke. I was simply adapting my language so that you would know what I was talking about, and I hadn't actually stopped to think about the fact that it wasn't.

You set up the false dichotomy that it not being a joke = me being irritated when in actual fact it was iamausername using it to level accusations at me = me being irritated.

That's not a reason to call it a joke, you'd specify that.

@Iam

, there are far too many "not really directable"-roles to do that. With 4 or 5 roles that can be directable, I hardly think that will help.
Also, JK has no benefit for scum. I think town would know pretty soon that they are roleblocked (the only one that doesn't know is Bob).

@The Fonz

, One thing I learnt from my friend Hyde is that being rebellish can be wonderful! Don't insult me for that.[/inside joke]

[IceGuy]

Okay, back in full swing.

farside should definitely be saving her ability for taking Seacore's ability when he is inevitably killed before D3. (Even if he's scum, the SK will want to be rid of him too, so.) The only other role that I might see her taking is the tracker. She should not have the option of taking any role that would help her as scum in any way.

Quilford should be jailing Seacore every night. If Seacore is scum, it keeps him from making the kill, if he's town, it keeps him alive.

Seacore is jailed N1 and survives. If Quilford isn't killed, he survives N2. If he is killed, jason delays the kill and he also survives N2. No point in wasting farside's ability for that.

Everyone who has an

unlimited

action to perform should be performing it every night; the more limited scum are in who can make the kill for them, the better.

FTFY

Otherwise, useless advice because what do you think we're going to do?!

Hey, Red, man, Red. I served in WW2, you and I, we gotta stick together.

But I agree with Midge, man, Hyde's sneaky. Sometimes, I can't even see him! Like when I'm at home and he's not there.

Unvote. Vote kdowns

Your fast jump on the kdowns wagon is noted.

---

So you're proposing that you should mislynch me and then during the night phase there will be 2 NK's leaving us at 9 people starting day 2. I'm sorry I am going to prevent my lynch because I will not let it go by that the many reasons for starting towards a lynch on me is because of my Role.

This is bad. I mean, bad as in caught scum by chance bad. You've got your standard AtE in there, your useless fluff (yes, we're 12 people, when 3 are dead, that means 9 are left. Do you think we can't do basic math?), and your hollow threat "I am going to prevent my lynch".

Seacore, You are pretty much proposing to Lynch me because my Role is essentially helpful towards scum if I was scum, but I'm not.

Useless again; do you think scum is ever going to claim scum?

I think Iam is possibly the more scummier one for now due to the fact that he actually brought this up as a case when the RVS had pretty much started.

Before, you only attacked Seacore. You probably noticed yourself how stupid that was since iaau noted your role first, so you decided to change your target, but then continue to accuse Seacore as if nothing happened. Still you kept your random vote on hiplop. Why didn't you vote one of the people you actually had down as scum?

VOTE: kdowns

Go explain:
- whom of iaau and Seacore is scum and why;
- why you didn't vote one of them;
- what your reads are;
- what your utility to town (as compared to other roles) is.

---

Quilford, why are iiau and CS scum?

---

Kdowns comes out clearly ahead in the Seacore versus Kdowns debate.

No, by the time you posted this (106) either Seacore or Iam would be better lynchs than policy.

Chainsaw defense of kdowns noted. Don't you get any scummy vibes from his response to the lynch suggestion?

Directing Town actions, especially minor ones like Bob’s inventions, overwhelmingly benefits Scum. The uncertainty of what is going to happen at Night is one of the things that keeps Scum honest. Having a full road-map of what is going to happen only lets Scum plan their Night actions more effectively.

And this is just scum trying to throw town into disarray. Neighborizer, backup, and inventor all need to be directed since:

- an undirected town player brings no extra benefit (for neighborizer and inventor, scum could try to kill the target but that's mostly wasting a kill; with backup, scum can't interfere at all),
- an undirected scum player does a lot of damage to town (scum circle for neighborizer; extra night action or loss of vote for town for inventor; powerful role in scum's hands for backup).
- it is easy to check whether the player followed the directions.

The other night actions could be undirected, with the exception of JK and kill delay with regard to Seacore; but it also might make sense to direct them to deflect the scum's kill from a powerful role.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Chainsaw defense of kdowns noted. Don't you get any scummy vibes from his response to the lynch suggestion?

No, I don’t. I get newb vibes from his responses. I don’t see anything scummy at all about saying “hey, I’m not rolling over for your stupid policy lynch”. Which is basically what happened, IMO.

And this is just scum trying to throw town into disarray. Neighborizer, backup, and inventor all need to be directed since:

- an undirected town player brings no extra benefit (for neighborizer and inventor, scum could try to kill the target but that's mostly wasting a kill; with backup, scum can't interfere at all),
- an undirected scum player does a lot of damage to town (scum circle for neighborizer; extra night action or loss of vote for town for inventor; powerful role in scum's hands for backup).
- it is easy to check whether the player followed the directions.

The other night actions could be undirected, with the exception of JK and kill delay with regard to Seacore; but it also might make sense to direct them to deflect the scum's kill from a powerful role.

Um, no. But thanks for playing.

How does an ‘undirected’ scum player damage Town again?

Neighborizor has to claim target the next day. Target confirms or denys. Other players that may have information to confirm or deny weight in.

Inventor’s cause of loss of vote on Pro-Town player causes high levels of suspicion on scum inventor.

Backup, if they are deemed scummy, can be lynched. And what roles do you consider ‘powerful’ in this case? Please elaborate.

The preceeding is an Appeal to Fear. Noted.

@Iceguy -

I want your opinion on the record - you support the 'Kill the Role' approach that Iam and Seacore pushed, correct?

[IceGuy]

No, I don’t. I get newb vibes from his responses. I don’t see anything scummy at all about saying “hey, I’m not rolling over for your stupid policy lynch”. Which is basically what happened, IMO.

Countering a case by saying "I'm town, I would be a mislynch, don't lynch me!!!" is now a town tell? Changing targets back-and-forth without good justifications and still not voting them isn't fence-sitting any more? This as a response to this makes perfect sense?

How does an ‘undirected’ scum player damage Town again?

How about reading my post.

Neighborizor has to claim target the next day. Target confirms or denys. Other players that may have information to confirm or deny weight in.

Scum player is already in the circle, damage is done. Neighborizer has no possibility to lie anyway.

Inventor’s cause of loss of vote on Pro-Town player causes high levels of suspicion on scum inventor.

Except this doesn't come into play until the pro-town player actually flips pro-town, and he can always argue how scummy he looked. We know the drill.

Backup, if they are deemed scummy, can be lynched.

Everybody can be lynched if deemed scummy. Worthless statement that doesn't address my point.

Where is the benefit to not directing the backup?

And what roles do you consider ‘powerful’ in this case? Please elaborate.

You don't think a scum jailkeeper is powerful?

The preceeding is an Appeal to Fear. Noted.

Throwing mud and hoping something sticks noted.

@Iceguy -

I want your opinion on the record - you support the 'Kill the Role' approach that Iam and Seacore pushed, correct?

No. I wouldn't support a kdowns lynch simply because of his role. I'm supporting a kdowns lynch for his scummy behavior, with the role being an additional factor.

[farside22]

Jailkeeper - Way too beneficial to scum.

I was in a game where town was had a JK. This was American Dad Mafia. The role benefited the town. JK can used not only as protection but possibly jailing someone you find scummy in the hopes you stop someone from dying.
I don't see it just befitting scum.

Seeing as how roles were picked before alignments were handed out, what is the point of this question?

I had the role as my top choice. I knew why I would take the role and wanted to see if he would answer honestly.
Plus some of the things MOI said I didn't find myself agreeing with. Usually when I put MOI as town it's because he says something that says OMG he's town look at what he came up with and noticed.
His rationale against you looks more like looking for pairs and spinning something you did into scum motives, which I didn't see you doing.

1. If I drew Town I wanted to be sure any scum did not have access to it as it gives scum a free kill. Reducing the number of kills in a Small game is paramount to Town’s success IMO. Dayplay needs as many shots as possible to get scum lynches.
2. If I drew Mafia / SK it helps my wincon to varying degrees.

What varying degree's would it help as SK?

It wasn’t that long ago that you called for my head immediately every game.

You were scum in one and I was scum in the other when I did call for your head there. Your point?

@QUILFORD: I'M STILL WAITING FOR ANSWERS FROM MY POST BELOW!

@Seacore: You said early in the discussion for kdown to prove himself he has to scum hunt.
Don't you find your comments during this discussion hypocritical?


@Quilford: What about iam's reaction was scummy?

Also, perhaps you might consider that iamausername used my joke to level an accusation at me as a reason for me being irritated instead of setting up your false dichotomy.

How?
Did you really think no one would ask about why you were claiming players were scum in the middle of a serious conversation?

I have no idea what CS is saying, can somebody translate?

No, but it makes my scum senses tingle.

Also Quilford the problem I think CS is bringing up is that you said it was a joke when you answered instead of correcting CS. I'm also getting tired of being ignored at this point.

unvote:
vote; Quilford

[MagnaofIllusion]

Countering a case by saying "I'm town, I would be a mislynch, don't lynch me!!!" is now a town tell?

Um what case? The “His role benefits scum potentially the most, lynch him Day 1 screw scumhunting” 'case' (I'm using ''s because it really isn't a case at all)? If so any response is a Town tell because that is a stupid and scummy ‘case’.

How about reading my post.

I read your post. Your reasons make no sense.

Scum player is already in the circle, damage is done. Neighborizer has no possibility to lie anyway.

Um, what damage is that again? The Circle is ALREADY PUBLICLY KNOWN. It’s not like you are inviting scum to a hidden QT that results in Town deaths.

Reality check – publicly known Neighborhoods aren’t radically powerful scum-hunting tools in an open setup. True story.

Question - how many neighborhoods have you been a part of here on MS?

Again … you aren’t giving a valid reason.

Except this doesn't come into play until the pro-town player actually flips pro-town, and he can always argue how scummy he looked. We know the drill.

So you are presupposing what will happen based solely on positioning your argument. Noted.

Everybody can be lynched if deemed scummy. Worthless statement that doesn't address my point.

Where is the benefit to not directing the backup?

It addresses what point you’ve made.

You haven’t shown the benefit of NOT directing the backup. Your ‘It keeps dangerous powers out of scum hands’ is a hypothethecial. Are you asserting Farside is scum? And what powerful roles are you seeking to keep out? Until you do so all you are doing is fear-mongering.

You don't think a scum jailkeeper is powerful?

In an open setup with no Vig or Strong Cop? No, not really. At best he can perhaps stop a Serial Killer kill. In the end JK in this setup is MUCH stronger in Town hands than scum.

In this setup the probable most powerful role a scum backup could take would be mine. Nothing like a surprise "Hey, you lynched me now I get an extra kill".

Throwing mud and hoping something sticks noted.

Let me illuminate your hypocricy with the following quote from the post you originally made –

And this is just scum trying to throw town into disarray

So pick your poison Mr Guy. Is the above mudslinging? Or is it scum-hunting.

No. I wouldn't support a kdowns lynch simply because of his role. I'm supporting a kdowns lynch for his scummy behavior, with the role being an additional factor.

So let me get this straight.

You don’t agree with the original position Iam and Secore took. But you are saying his response to what is effectively a bad policy lynch is scummy?

[jasonT1981]

bloody hell, just checking in quickly, been bus today... so much happened by looks of things. Didn't expect it to have moved so fast

[IceGuy]

Um what case? The “His role benefits scum potentially the most, lynch him Day 1 screw scumhunting” 'case' (I'm using ''s because it really isn't a case at all)? If so any response is a Town tell because that is a stupid and scummy ‘case’.

So you don't think a response to a bad case can be scummy? No fluff as usual, just a simple "yes" or "no".

Reality check – publicly known Neighborhoods aren’t radically powerful scum-hunting tools in an open setup. True story.

So you're agreeing with me? Or what point are you trying to make?

Are you asserting Farside is scum?

Do you have her as confirmed town? If not, it does make sense to consider the possibility she's scum?

And what powerful roles are you seeking to keep out?

You don't think a scum jailkeeper is powerful?

In an open setup with no Vig or Strong Cop? No, not really. At best he can perhaps stop a Serial Killer kill. In the end JK in this setup is MUCH stronger in Town hands than scum.

How about stopping town powers, especially in a game where every town player has a power role that is known?

In this setup the probable most powerful role a scum backup could take would be mine. Nothing like a surprise "Hey, you lynched me now I get an extra kill".

So you assert there are no powerful scum roles, and your role would be powerful for scum? Pick one.

Let me illuminate your hypocricy with the following quote from the post you originally made –

And this is just scum trying to throw town into disarray

So pick your poison Mr Guy. Is the above mudslinging? Or is it scum-hunting.

It's scum-hunting. So far, you've failed to give a pro-town reason why we shouldn't coordinate night actions.

So let me get this straight.

You don’t agree with the original position Iam and Secore took. But you are saying his response to what is effectively a bad policy lynch is scummy?

Yes. I'm not giving him a free pass simply because the iaau/Seacore case was bad.

[kondi2424]

what the hell is going on in here

[ConSpiracy]

Seriously, if you all keep posting walls I am replacing out of this game.
Especially when those walls are extremely useless.
Anyways, MoI skims as overeager in this game. Some of his attacks are irrelevant.
(I may or may not give reasons for it, I am totally not in the mood for it now as I hate those walls)

and Jason, instead of reading you could also just vote for Quilford.
Iam should do the same and hiplop, if you are just continuing to be useless, be it on Quilford.

@ kondi, we are all voting Quilford. Please blend in with town.

[kondi2424]

Sure. Sounds good. UNVOTE: VOTE: Quilford

[Seacore]

Some reading to do after sleeping it seems. I'll get to it after some work.

[hiplop]

voTe conspir

Something feels incredibky wrong aboutthis guy