Open 66 - Quack Multiball (Game over) before 584

[Cream147]

I am the replacement.

/confirm

The mod will confirm that I am the replacement.

[Cream147]

Vote: Pyrodwarf

Saying IGMEOY to me is the most scummy thing one can do.

[Cream147]

hello

vote: Hello

. Yes I do realize the absurdity of my post. I'm in a weird mood right now.

You're not even in this game are you? You're the guy I replaced LOL!

[Cream147]

Sorry about that Tyler...

[Cream147]

I feel horrible for saying this but now I'm in, I want to stay in. Sorry, but you can get bumped to the top of the list for a game as has been said.

[Cream147]

I don't know why you think my vote was random.

Oo...very impressive. That might be just what we need to break out of the random voting stage.

[Cream147]

FOS:Aegor

for saying we need to lynch someone soon. Looking for a quicklynch is a very scummy tactic...almost too scummy to be honest. I don't disagree that it would be good to put a bit of pressure on someone though, because when people are under pressure, that's when they are likely to slip.

[Cream147]

To summarize this set up, there are basically 4 roles: Goons, Werewolves, Quacks, and Doctors. From a townie perspective, there should be no disadvantage if everyone claimed. Please read this post carefully and read until the end before commenting and saying something like this is stupid because, etc...

I propose the following: going by Mod's list of players on page 1 (from top of the list to bottom), we claim one by one. Obviously, your only choices are a quack or a doctor. Ok. Next part is very important. Look at your pm and determine whether or not you are a quack or a doctor. The actual messages are the same, but one message is said by a sexy nurse and the other one is said by the doctor. Match it against mod's post on page 1, and you shall claim quack or a doctor.

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you: if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor. Because if you are goon or a werewolf, the natural tendency is to claim doctor, since there are more of them - so do the opposite. Actually this reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles.

There is no doubt in my mind, that if you are townie, you will agree with me. Because, this can be advatnageous for the town. In the worst case scenario, it would be useless, but it cannot hurt us.

There is no way you can defend this post.

[quote="Near]We can't use this anymore so it doesn't matter, but as a town, how can you not know what I was trying to do? If you objected to it because it was against the rules (which i didn't know it was against the rules), then I can understand where you are coming from. Otherwise, you should have been quiet... unless of course you are trying to save your scum partner from falling into this trap.[/quote]

Trap? Looked more like you were confused to me, than a trap. Why would town automatically think it is a trap anyway? It's perfectly plausible that they might just think that you are confused scum. That's certainly the impression I'm getting off you.

I'm going to double-check the votecount before deciding whether I'm going to vote for you. I don't wish to hammer you or give someone the oppurtunity to hammer you this early

[Cream147]

I've checked the vote count, I believe you have 5 votes on you, which is L-2. I'll withhold my vote for now then, because you could be hammered without being able to give a defense. Until then,

FOS: Near

will suffice.

[Cream147]

Near's plan was really, really, really stupid (as it would only have worked if only quack and doctors had read the second post) but how in the world is it scummy?
This bandwagon formed too quickly.

FOS:Cream147, Aegor, JDodge, hasdgfas

unvote, vote: near
If he actually had the doctor PM, he wouldn't be trying to pull this. This is total crap and doctors should understand why.

That makes no sense. Regardless of your alginment you can only know that they have the same pm if you read post No. 2. He could have made the same suggestion as a Quack/Doc.


The real scum here is Cream. He's throwing FoSes around, but never actually changes his vote, he lets it stay on PyroDwarf. If he was doing any real scumhunting he would change his vote accordingly. This way he can try to make people look suspicious without taking any responsibility, which is only favourable to scum.
So

unvote, vote Cream147

.

I'm not certain about my suspicions, and I don't want Near lynched just yet. Sorry if that comes off to you as scummy, but I think what would really come off as scummy, is if I put Near on L-1. You certainly threw a fair few FoSes around though...I will

unvote

, now we're out of the random voting stage.

Oh, and this here.

That makes no sense. Regardless of your alginment you can only know that they have the same pm if you read post No. 2. He could have made the same suggestion as a Quack/Doc.

Have you read Near's post. Near shows that he has read Post number 2. What he also shows is that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm OR that he's trying to trick scum. The trick scum idea is a very bad idea so I think it's more likely that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm. That leads me to think he is scum. However, not with enough certainty to put him on L-1 and risk scum quicklynching.

[Cream147]

Have you read Near's post. Near shows that he has read Post number 2. What he also shows is that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm OR that he's trying to trick scum. The trick scum idea is a very bad idea so I think it's more likely that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm.

Why does it show that he hasn't seen the actual pm???

Because if he had, and if you had for that matter, you would know that the messages were not said by 'the sexy nurse'. You would know that that method of telling the doctor and quack pms from each other is not valid.

As I said, there is the possibility that it was an absolutely God-awful plan to catch scum. I suppose you could say it did catch scum...Near himself.

That leads me to think he is scum. However, not with enough certainty to put him on L-1 and risk scum quicklynching.

Yes, when scum quicklynches him we will be completely dumbfounded and not know who the scum was who lynched him [/quote]

Fair enough, fair enough, but I bet if I put him on L-1 people would say that that was scummy.

[Cream147]

Many of you guys have COMPLETELY missed my point. I KNEW townies could not tell quacks from doctors. That was exactly where my initial confusion was when I wondered if mod was being sarcastic. Then I even said that I realized mod was being sarcastic when I looked at my pm. Looking at this, you should already KNOW that I KNEW I couldn't tell if I am a quack or a doctor.

This is what I thought you might be doing... but I still don't understand what you wanted docs/quacks to claim. I would have been like... "I don't know."

What claim would have implied scum to you? Either one??

Nope, I wanted all townies to claim quacks. And I thought if you claim doctor after reading my post, you'd be a scum. See below. I guess my test was too confusing...

But you use SCUM as an example of who should claim quack...

If you wanted town to claim quack, and scum to claim doc, you should not have said "If you're a werewolf, claim quack."

Pink Puppy, the point was that, I thought that if townies understood what I was trying to do, they would claim quack. I explained this before. I thought all townies will claim quacks.

Secondly, I also said all scums should claim quacks. But since scums might suspect that I'm trying to get tricky I didn't they will listen to me. Some of them may claim quacks, but I thought some of them will claim doctors. My plan, then, was accuse all who claim doctors.

That plan is so insane and ambitious...well...well...I can't believe you attempted that. No, seriously,

I can't believe it.

[Cream147]

Have you read Near's post. Near shows that he has read Post number 2. What he also shows is that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm OR that he's trying to trick scum. The trick scum idea is a very bad idea so I think it's more likely that he hasn't seen the actual doctor/quack pm.

Why does it show that he hasn't seen the actual pm???

Because if he had, and if you had for that matter, you would know that the messages were not said by 'the sexy nurse'. You would know that that method of telling the doctor and quack pms from each other is not valid.

Not a logical answer to my question. Plase try again.
He never mentions "the sexy nurse". You still haven't shown why he had to read post No.2 before.

He may have very well known that this isn't a working plan if the scum are well-informed (i.e. they have read post 2), but tried it for the hope that they aren't.

So a) it could be that he is Quack/Doc and thoguht that there was a difference, unknowing of No.2
b) He knew of No.2 and tried a bad trick.
c) He's scum and screwed up badly.

Didn't mention 'the sexy nurse'? What on earth are you talking about? We're both talking about Near here aren't we? Let's have a quick look back at that post by Near.

To summarize this set up, there are basically 4 roles: Goons, Werewolves, Quacks, and Doctors. From a townie perspective, there should be no disadvantage if everyone claimed. Please read this post carefully and read until the end before commenting and saying something like this is stupid because, etc...

I propose the following: going by Mod's list of players on page 1 (from top of the list to bottom), we claim one by one. Obviously, your only choices are a quack or a doctor. Ok. Next part is very important. Look at your pm and determine whether or not you are a quack or a doctor. The actual messages are the same, but one message is said by a

sexy nurse

and the other one is said by the doctor. Match it against mod's post on page 1, and you shall claim quack or a doctor.

MOST IMPORTANT: Here is my advice to you: if for some reason, you are not sure which one you are (for example if you were werewolves, I strongly recommend that you claim quack rather than a doctor. Because if you are goon or a werewolf, the natural tendency is to claim doctor, since there are more of them - so do the opposite. Actually this reason is complete bs, but it would make things easier once the cloud settles.

There is no doubt in my mind, that if you are townie, you will agree with me. Because, this can be advatnageous for the town. In the worst case scenario, it would be useless, but it cannot hurt us.

I have highlighted the words that you denied Near ever said. Thank you very much. This proves Near DID read Post 2. It follows that it's either b) or c) in your option list. b) seems so stupid! It seems like Near is just using b) as a desperate defense to me.

Fair enough, fair enough, but I bet if I put him on L-1 people would say that that was scummy.

Scum tell. Thinking of how it may look to the town instead of just doing "the right thing".

Surely part of doing the right thing is not making people think you're scum when you are town. Or should I put Near on L-1, and possibly waste a town lynch because people would use that as evidence against me. If Near is town, I wish he had thought more like that, rather than throwing out that massive scumtell of a 'plan'.

Now, I want to ask you, why are you so desperately defending Near? What makes you believe him so much. Was it your lack of reading Near's post properly, or something else?

[Cream147]

I have highlighted the words that you denied Near ever said. Thank you very much. This proves Near DID read Post 2. It follows that it's either b) or c) in your option list. b) seems so stupid! It seems like Near is just using b) as a desperate defense to me.

Of course I read Post 2. I said I read it even before I posted this message. How many times do I have to repeat myself? Read post 26, 29, 43. And let me know if you still suspect me. If so, say why.

THANK YOU! Now you can shut up Zu_Faul about the possibility that you didn't read Post 2, which is what I was trying to achieve. Thanks for actually telling him that personally.

Now, let's have a look at those posts you mentioned.

Can moderator be sarcastic? OR are we supposed to take his words for what they are? Because I am somewhat confused.

Btw, I think this is a pretty cool set up.

So are you preparing for your plan here? Is that what you're trying to say to me. This sets the scene for making you look like scum.

[quote="]Near"Can moderator be sarcastic? OR are we supposed to take his words for what they are? Because I am somewhat confused.

Btw, I think this is a pretty cool set up.

Upon a re-read, he is indeed being sarcastic. Although it confused me a little bit because they differed in who said those pms.[/quote]

Hmm...all suspicions have to be taken off you now I've reread that post. This post proves Near's innocence.

Hello. I am female.

Also, what is Near talking about?

vote Near

I am talking about mod's post where he says the pms of the quacks are vastly different from the pms of real doctors. At first I thought he wasn't being sarcastic because two people who say those things are different: one's "voice in your head" and the other one is a "sexy nurse". But I realized that mod was being sarcastic when i looked my pm.

[/quote]

As does this one.

Near is innocent. I'm pretty certain of it now. Sorry for all before Near, but you've just been too confusing and I still needed several rereads to actually understand what you meant in these posts. Anyway, thanks for clearing this up Near, and now everyone can have a good reread of these posts, I don't see how anyone can accuse Near, at least for the reasons we've mentioned.

[Cream147]

Oh, and your plan was really stupid. lol

[Cream147]

by the way Zu_Faul, I've withdrew my pressure from Near now. You might've missed it because it's directly above your post.

[Cream147]

Why was the plan scummy?

If you read Gorrad's post properly, you'd see he said that the 'play' was scummy. The play was scummy. Only if you believe that it was a plan, the word that you used, does it not look scummy.

[Cream147]

I'd like him to answer for himself, thank you.

I answered because I wanted to point out the mistake. I didn't want you to get a upperhand in that battle purely because of a change of words.

[Cream147]

It was obvious that he tried a trick to find out the scum.
I don't think how his action can be interpreted as somewthing else.

You're the only person who has failed to see how it looks scummy. That seals what I've been thinking about doing for a long time.

Vote: zu_Faul

[Cream147]

I agree with zu_Faul that now it's hard to see Near's plan as scummy. My point is Zu_faul failed to see right from the beginning, without Near's explanation, how it was scummy. Oh, and muffinhead sort of half said that they saw how it was scummy...sort of. Muffinhead is my current second choice as scum. The most protown player at the moment in my opinion is Glork who seems to speak nothing but perfect logic.

[Cream147]

Oh, and muffinhead sort of half said that they saw how it was scummy...sort of. Muffinhead is my current second choice as scum.

well if u read carefully he asked me to explain y at the time i thought he was scum. Therefore u seem desperate to vote me off and im curious to know y.

I don't know how you can possibly accuse me of being desperate to vote you off when my vote is not even on you. Seriously. I said you were my second choice. I still think zu_Faul is the better vote, though I seem to be alone in that opinion.

[Cream147]

I agree with zu_Faul that now it's hard to see Near's plan as scummy. My point is Zu_faul failed to see right from the beginning, without Near's explanation, how it was scummy. Oh, and muffinhead sort of half said that they saw how it was scummy...sort of. Muffinhead is my current second choice as scum. The most protown player at the moment in my opinion is Glork who seems to speak nothing but perfect logic.

Why don't you consider the possibility that I was smarter or put more work into trying to understand Near than you and realized is quicker? My vote stays.

WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH! If you really thought about it that way, you would have beat Near to the punch and showed me the relevant posts that cleared Near. You didn't. You may have had the correct opinion, but you didn't seem to get it in the right way. Furthermore, you didn't put much effort into actually reading the scummy post in question did you? So how you can claim you tried to understand Near more is beyond me.

If you were smarter, then you would have gave a solid arguement for Near's innocence. I found all your arguements weak, whereas Near made one post addressed to me and convinced me of his innocence.

What people must remember, is that the means, as well as the end, is important, and whilst Zu got to the correct end, the means he got there seem very dodgy to me. If he had just pointed me to the appropriate posts, I wouldn't be accusing him right now.

[Cream147]

I do like your plan glork. I don't see what the problem is if the scum don't kill, that just means that they don't have a nightkill, which is good for the town. It also doesn't weed out the scum, but then neither does having no plan at all and just any old night kill. A scum crosskill would be brilliant.

[Cream147]

Muffin-PD
Cream-Zu
Gorrad-Puppy
hasdf-jdodge
near-aegor
glork-evil

[Cream147]

Wouldn't be easier to pick one, then tweak it as necessary? The voting would take a long time, especially because we would need to eliminate those two players from people's lists, remake them without the two players, repeat, etc. Why not vote on one, then make changes as we wish? It seems way easier.

I guess I'm not sure about how useful the process will be in gathering information. It seems so drawn out and convoluted that I can't imagine myself being able to glimpse helpful information/connections about/between people through their pairings.

I don't think this process is necessarily meant to be great for collecting information. However, it does increase the probability of a crosskill.

Also, I'm not sure you understood muffinhead. I believe muffinhead has already produced the list based on the pairs that were voted the most. That's what the list in his post is.

Why are we wasting time on debating over lists? Any list is as good as random, no? There is gonna be a lot of confusion. I think it would be better to do a random pairing, unless I'm not understanding something, witch is quite possible.

The main goal of our lists is to pair the scummy people together to increase the chance of a crosskill. Another subtler thing which, if no one else has, at least, I have tried to do, is pair people together in the best way to gather information.

[Cream147]

I'm perfectly happy to go with the flow at this point as this game is dying because of all this list discussion.

[Cream147]

Wow...this game is dead.

Just choose a list, and get on with it. I have no more care as to which one we choose.

Unvote. Vote: No Lynch

[Cream147]

So JD and muffin are quacks.

Super.

That's a bit of an assumption I'm seeing there. They could be mafia, or docs that didn't do their job. Remember, that a quack might have been paired with scum, in which case, they wouldn't kill their partner.

[Cream147]

So JD and muffin are quacks.

Super.

hmmm doesnt make sense to me.

I did save evil so that doesnt make sense, unless 2 voted for the same person. But then how did near then get voted off. There must be some other explination.

Quacks kill the person that they targeted, unless they are scum, so it would be a good explanation.

[Cream147]

We have found certain scum. Let's lynch Near now.

anyways i suggest everyone look back at pages 2 and 3 and our suspects of near being scum. Surly somone who voted near was scum.

The above post was the most determined to get rid of near. I recokn we can get alot out of that page.

Disagree with you. I feel that if you have any sanity (or you were somehow genius enough to spot the hints Near was leaving before) and you were town, you would be greatly suspicious of Near at the least.

[Cream147]

Seriously! Let's think about this logically. Muffinhead and jdodge could very well be quacks. I'm not going to deny that that is a possibility. However, suppose that one of them is scum. Obviously, they don't night kill their partner, that would make them look suspicious (though the way that some of you are saying they are confirmed quacks is making me think that it may have been a good ploy!). But there is another scum group, who probably night-killed a random person and hit a scum's partner. They may have even chose methodically, purposely choosing the partner of who they thought was scum. I can't be sure of the scum's thinking. What I can be sure of, is that we have NO confirmed quacks.

If you were wondering why there could possibly be 2 kills in this situation (surely there should be 3), the answer is that quack could have targeted scum.

Of course...maybe we have just found the 2 quacks lol.

[Cream147]

Gorrad. Saying scum would not deviate from the plan is WIFOM. Saying scum WOULD DEFINITELY deviate from the plan is also WIFOM.

The only safe conculsion to come to is muffin and JD are either scum or quacks. They are in no way capable of being doctors.

I would rather kill someone who is either a quack or scum. Aiming at the rest of us will only make it possible to kill a doctor. That is lame.

QFT

[Cream147]

The abbreviations from muffinhead actually set off my scumdar (I guess I must need a replacement). It's probably because I HATE THEM! Some players today have changed their entire playstyle and it's making me uneasy. Gorrad and muffinhead are the main culprits of this, their posts just read completely different to their old ones to me. I'm not sure what it means, but I don't like it.

Pink Puppy mentioned Near's townieness and a possible night kill because of it. I agree that that's a possibility. However, I would also say that evil would be a bit of a target because of muffinhead's scumminess yesterday, so I see them both as possible scum night kills.

[Cream147]

The abbreviations from muffinhead actually set off my scumdar (I guess I must need a replacement). It's probably because I HATE THEM! Some players today have changed their entire playstyle and it's making me uneasy. Gorrad and muffinhead are the main culprits of this, their posts just read completely different to their old ones to me. I'm not sure what it means, but I don't like it.

Pink Puppy mentioned Near's townieness and a possible night kill because of it. I agree that that's a possibility. However, I would also say that evil would be a bit of a target because of muffinhead's scumminess yesterday, so I see them both as possible scum night kills.

Explain firstly how my playing style has changed. Then tell me how i was scummy yesterday. U have just put facts without evidense. Please quote examples of both situations.

Let me first explain that the change I described is really, a

good

change. You seem to be playing far better today, however, that is making me feel uneasy.

As for your scumminess, your vote for Aegor has never sat right with me from the moment I first read it.

[Cream147]

I'm not enjoying the way this game is going. It is turning into trifling over little details in our 'plan'. It has been like this ever since the list-making of yesterday began. What happened to searching for scumtells, and things like that? I'm all for formulating some sort of plan so we can deduce things from the night kills. However, all we are talking about is the plan. It's ridiculous.

[Cream147]

Maybe Open games are not meant for you.

I see where you're coming from, but surely a little bit of fun could be added into the experimenting? If you want my view on plans, then I think that quacks shouldn't target each other, purely for the reason that it makes a 2v2v2 situation possible if they do (though it would be unlikely if you do a bit of probability).

[Cream147]

I did see that comment that Aegor made about talking to his partner, but I chose to ignore it because no one else saw it so I was SURE it was sarcasm (and I didn't want to look stupid by bringing up that sarcastic remark). I'm right aren't I? It is sarcastic yes? Oh come on, that would be mad if it weren't sarcastic...

[Cream147]

Happy scumday Gorrad. Now please remember that being paired with who you think is scum doesn't mean they're going to kill you.

As for Puppy's request for a lynch, I agree with her, we want a lynch today. If we do nothing, we are inviting it to go 4v2v2. In that situation, half of everyone is scum. If we lynch a scum, then we take out 1 of the scums from the equation. In foresight, we probably should have lynched Day 1...I suppose we were banking on crosskills, which never happened. Thinking about it, tonight, we NEED crosskills really.

[Cream147]

JDodge (1) Glork
Gorrad (3) JDodge, hasdgfas, Pink Puppy
Aegor (1) Gorrad
(No vote) Cream147, Aegor, zu_Faul, PyroDwarf, muffinhead
10 players. 6 votes to lynch.

I object to the pairing because it puts me against someone who will kill me. I don't like that.

I mean, I'll do so if y'all really want me to, but I seriously would rather have him paired with someone like PD who I also find VERY scummy.

Of course, best solution is to lynch Aegor. I really like that idea. Let's do that.

Benefits of the random factor is that the scum won't know who's being protected. If we have a list, they can use what they know to plan the best possible kill. If we don't then they have to try and guess who will target who.

I did answer Glork in that we've been through that discussion several times. My ideas on the matter haven't changed. If he wants to reread my earlier posts, he can be my guest.

I really don't like this post. Really. Particularly the bit I've bolded. It definitely fits with Pink Puppy's theory, that you are scum and you think Aegor is scum of the opposite team.

[Cream147]

And I state again, saying that I'd be fine with dying is NOT a pro-town idea. Scum say that they're ok with dying. It's like the #1 thing scum say.

Scum do often say that they're ok with dying. However, as town, you should be ok with taking one for the team. Therefore, you should be ok with dying to take out scum. Saying that you're not ok with dying is completely anti-town, because if you are town, you should be ok with dying, and therefore you are either stupid or lying (which I suppose, as town, would be stupid).

[Cream147]

I believe we leave jd and if his position doesnt get any better on day 3 then we lynch him.

Also, Muffin -- please confirm that you will NOT take any more actions, as if you are protown, you are almost CERTAINLY a Quack (and therefore can only kill protown players).

As i said i wont without permission, also i know i am a quack because i protected evil.

xoxo lol

double scumkill says hello.

[Cream147]

I believe we leave jd and if his position doesnt get any better on day 3 then we lynch him.

Also, Muffin -- please confirm that you will NOT take any more actions, as if you are protown, you are almost CERTAINLY a Quack (and therefore can only kill protown players).

As i said i wont without permission, also i know i am a quack because i protected evil.

xoxo lol

double scumkill says hello.

I was referring to the last sentence of that quote. You're not necessarily quack, because 1 doctor save only saves 1 scumkill. If both scum factions try and kill you, your save fails. Hence there is a (small) chance that you are just a normal doctor. Don't use that as an excuse to save someone tonight though.

[Cream147]

JDodge (1) Glork
Gorrad (4) JDodge, hasdgfas, Pink Puppy, muffinhead
Aegor (1) Gorrad
(No vote) Cream147, Aegor, zu_Faul, PyroDwarf
10 players. 6 votes to lynch.

EBWOP: not kill you, kill whoever you're saving.

[Cream147]

Well what are the thoughts of my groupings? We cant go into night 2 without a plan.

pp-glork
pd/aegor-zu
cream-hasd

Just one more idea has come to mind. If everyone here is truely 99% that im town, then y doesnt the extra person, lets say pd save me? I wont protect him back so nothing bad will happen to him. Just a thought if what u say is literally true.

Wow. Just wow. This is either a moment of stupidity or you are scum. If someone saves you and you don't save them back, then they are an easy nightkill as they are unprotected (even if someone protects them, SOMEONE will be left unprotected, and scum will be fully aware as to who that person is)

If you are town, that hardly matters. It's just a like for like. Of course, if you are scum, that course of action is extremely good for you, and extremely bad for the town, hence why you suggested it.

Only a theory though, it could just have been a moment of stupidity (we all have them).

Small FoS: muffinhead

[Cream147]

JDodge, where did you pull that 75% chance of Aegor dying from. I'm not seeing it...at all.

[Cream147]

Oooooh, 2 quacks and 6

doctors

.

I'm dense like that.

Could you at least explain, beginning-to-end, what you were thinking? I'm really confused as well.

I was thinking that there were 6 quacks and 2 doctors, which would give Gorrad (if town) a 75% of killing town-Aegor if paired with town-Aegor and the 0% chance of killing scum-Aegor (quack-immune)

ok lol. I suppose it explains your absolutely bizarre numbers.

[Cream147]

lulz JD

Review coming up, then I'll see where I really want my vote to go. Pre-review inklings are that JD and Hascow are potential baddies, and that Gorrad/Muffin are GGs.

I singled out Gorrad and Muffin earlier. Muffin for his overnight improvement on his game, and Gorrad for...the opposite. I agree with you that Muffin is a good guy. I don't think Gorrad is though. Gorrad is one of the following.

1. Scum
2. Stupid

To assume that he is a good guy, I take it you believe the second. I'm looking forward to your review now, to see how you justify that opinion!

[Cream147]

Actually, considering y'all think I'm scum, that's probably not a good thing in y'all's eyes. Well, I like this list. If y'all want, you can make a 'GAH! Gorrad doesn't like this list!' list if I come up scum, but honestly it's not necessary as I will not.

Also, I LOVE that I'm being lynched yet my plan AND my list are being used. Great job with the scumhunting, guys. Lynch the guy with the plan that's being used. Yeah. Love it.

Your plan which you keep discussing is elementary stuff. Anyone who understands the situation would go with the same plan, hence scum would happily say it. Lists don't matter, as long as we have as many protected as we can, so your list being chosen is irrelevant as well, be you scum or otherwise.

[Cream147]

As I've said about the list plan, in hindsight, we should've lynched someone, because without a lynch, it seems like we've got a load of nothing today to work with. If there had been a crosskill, then we'd all be patting ourselves on the back of course, but it hasn't happened. Instead we just lose two doctors for little information.

[Cream147]

Glork is speaking extreme sense, as is Aegor. If town come to lose this game, then I think that it's because we got the night 1 plan wrong. Badly wrong. The last thing we want to do now is to get the night 2 plan even more horribly wrong.

[Cream147]

Glork is speaking extreme sense, as is Aegor. If town come to lose this game, then I think that it's because we got the night 1 plan wrong. Badly wrong. The last thing we want to do now is to get the night 2 plan even more horribly wrong.

Why don't you commit then, if both are speaking sense? Together with your Day 1 behaviour that makes me wanna vote you again.

Huh? How am I not committing. Is it that you just want me to say "I think that doctor's should protect secretly and then claim on Day 3" because if that's what you want, well there we are.

[Cream147]

Glork is speaking extreme sense, as is Aegor. If town come to lose this game, then I think that it's because we got the night 1 plan wrong. Badly wrong. The last thing we want to do now is to get the night 2 plan even more horribly wrong.

Why don't you commit then, if both are speaking sense? Together with your Day 1 behaviour that makes me wanna vote you again.

Huh? How am I not committing. Is it that you just want me to say "I think that doctor's should protect secretly and then claim on Day 3" because if that's what you want, well there we are.

With "not comitting" I mean you are not voting.[/quote]

I am not sure which way I want my vote to go yet. I don't really see a JDodge lynch as a great idea. What I do think is a good idea is about the doctor's secretly protecting.

I'm sorry if you think I've been lurking...I think I've been posting enough, I would say that JDodge and Pyro have been more lurky than I. I'll try and up my activeness if that's what you want though, but I am in a time zone where all the action happens when I'm asleep unfortunately.

I don't like Pink Puppy's plan, on the basis that if JDodge is quack, then the should the scum do the logical thing, it will definitely be 4v2v2, and the game will be out of the town's hands. If the protecting is random then there is at least a chance that it will be better for the town.

[Cream147]

4v2v2 does take game out of town's hand, as maf have two night kills and if they hit town with all...you rely on scum to kill each other essentially.

[Cream147]

Sorry, didn't finish that post, accidentally clicked submit. Let's try again.

4v2v2. We lynch scum. 4v2v1. Scum kill 2 town. 2v2v1. You see a problem? It's unlikely that it should be THAT, but 3v2 and 3v1v1 are still not great positions for us to be in, and they're quite likely, and remember, that's if we lynch scum. At 6v2v2, which is what it currently is, then as long as we get the protects right the ball is just about in the right court.

I, like glork, have a strong feeling that muffin is town, no matter what jdodge may or may not be. If JDodge comes up as town, I am going to be a very concerned person.

[Cream147]

1. I think muffin is town. I think muffin would be town no matter what jdodge turned out to be.

2. I think that the scummiest player is Gorrad at this moment in time, in fact, I'm shocked at the way he is all of a sudden not going to be lynched.

[Cream147]

And, I think we should lynch JDodge. Lynching Gorrad gives scum multiple night killing targets.

Clever. Cream likes this.

Vote:JDodge

which is L-1

[Cream147]

Though having Gorrad 'protect' me isn't great, I'm happy to accept those listings by Sir Tornado.

[Cream147]

Aren't we all agreed on a plan of action at night now? I think that a hammer is fine at this point.

[Cream147]

Just a question. How do u dectect scum if they dont post at all?

Scum are often found BECAUSE they don't post at all.

Scum would be less intresting then quack because it is much rareer to be quack then scum. Every game has scum, however not everygame has quacks. Correct me if im wrong but this is the only game with quacks currently going. Now assuming that jd has never been a quack then surly he would be intrested to see how it feels.

Being quack isn't really that interesting I imagine. Like a vig who can't kill scum...it essentially makes you a plain townie. I wouldn't think the game was any more interesting being a quack than scum.

[Cream147]

JDodge, I have no idea whether you are town or scum. It is rather impossible to read you when you play like this.

Yeah, let's not lynch people we think are scum.

FOS: Sir Tornado

Scum are often found BECAUSE they don't post at all.

You haven't posted as well. Other than

I think that a hammer is fine at this point.

clamoring for JDodge's lynch. I thought I have seen everything in a mafia game, but this is unbelievable. He doesn't post at all except for "let's lynch that bum". If that is not scum then I don't know.

FOS: Cream147

Gorrad is still scum.

What the hell, is no one interested in catching real scum that no one noticed these two guys spitting in the face of town?

I post every single time I come here. Sorry if my contributions aren't pleasing enough for you. If you want to say I'm spitting in the face of the town, then fine, say that. I wouldn't even definte what I'm doing lurking, but there you go (I'd love to know what you think about PyroDwarf's clear lurking). However, attacking Sir Tornado is beyond belief. He is a very intelligent player, who seems to have steered this game in the right direction since he replaced in.

I agree that Gorrad is scum though. Sir Tornado's reason for not lynching him is strong however, strong enough for me at least.

[Cream147]

(I'd love to know what you think about PyroDwarf's clear lurking).

That's also anti-town like I said in my post before the one you quoted. I did mention it, what about the other players?

It was in a brackets, it was meant to be a sidenote.

However, attacking Sir Tornado is beyond belief. He is a very intelligent player, who seems to have steered this game in the right direction since he replaced in.

Asskissing.

So I'm not actually allowed to compliment players who I believe to be town, am I? I believe what I said.[/quote]

I agree that Gorrad is scum though. Sir Tornado's reason for not lynching him is strong however, strong enough for me at least.

More evidence for my claim that you are opportunistic.

Everything I say, there is two interpretations to it. You always take the negative one. For example, the above comment you made about my compliments on Tornado you called 'asskissing'. Maybe I was just complimenting a townie? This again, you've interpreted it as opportunistic. I would think that opportunistic was when you went in a vote with no reason. I've explicitly said my reasons for voting JDodge and not Gorrad. I think the reasoning is good by Sir Tornado, hence I'm voting JDodge. If I were opportunistic, I'd hop on the wagon without reasoning.

[Cream147]

Well then I can't prove to you that it wasn't opportunistic then can I? Neither can you prove that it was though.

[Cream147]

24 hours without a post! *gasp*. I only came here to say...well, look at my sig. Sorry...

[Cream147]

What the hell? Has everyone's internet been down or something. Seriously. There have been 4 content-free posts in my break from the game. This game was active once. I feel Day 2 is drawing out more than it needs to, and I see no reason why we shouldn't lynch jdodge. Now no doubt people will say again "Opportunistic", "Wants to end day quickly", and whatever, but I think "Desperately bored of this game" would be a better description. Mod, there is good reason to deadline today, with activeness as low as this.

[Cream147]

I still wonder why do you of all people are upset over not posting content in this game. You could do something against it, but you just blame everyone else.

I think that this may have been true before, but right now it's more than just not posting. It's the fact that the day has literally been pushed far beyond its usefulness, and people realize (and don't post) that fact yet don't end it.

QFT

[Cream147]

Mwahahahaha!

Vote: Elmo

[Cream147]

Yeah, I agree. Either we'll get a no-kill or we find another scum

Hammertime:

Vote: Elmo

Wow. Sorry for placing Elmo on L-1, I didn't know the amount of votes required for a lynch today was as little as 4. However, zu clearly acknowledges that this was the hammer, severely limiting the town's time to talk about things such as jd and any possible connections that he may have with anyone else (and any other topics that the town may wish to discuss). Sorry guys, tomorrow, I'll make sure I know the amount of votes needed for a lynch before I stick my vote on, no matter how confirmed the scum may be.

[Cream147]

Elmo (well, as Pyrodwarf N1) targeted the same person each night if he followed the plan. Therefore, it follows that if he were quack, he would have killed his partner Night 1. Hence he is scum because they didn't die night 1, but DID die night 2.

[Cream147]

Basically, here's the way I see it.

If Elmo turns out to be the other WW, I will almost certainly put Zu as a Mafiate. 7 alive now; lynch makes it 6 alive with 2 scums tomorrow, assuming the Mafiates don't out themselves by killing overnight.

If we mislynch tomorrow,

THEN

they kill someone with whom they are partnered. 4 alive, 2 scums, they win.

I have EVERY reason to believe that Zu deliberately quick-hammered to put us in effective LyLo tomorrow.

Because that would be totally not obvious

WIFOM

[Cream147]

I wanted to wait for Elmo to read up yesterday and make a decision. Don't blame me if he didn't. As I said, he would have brought this up to his defense anyway and in my opinion it is a very weak one. Our plan was assuming all the time that all of us play correctly. We can totally throw our play out of the window if not everyone follows it. That was assumed from the beginning.

I actually agree with this post from Zu.

[Cream147]

I knew it was the third vote. I didn't know it was L-1. Yes, putting that vote on wasn't the smartest thing to do, looking at it now, but I was absolutely sure that Elmo was mafia at the time. You've done enough to give me slight doubts about that (though I'm still pretty sure that Elmo is mafia), but I didn't suggest it was the right time to hammer at that stage.

[Cream147]

I agree with post 865 of PinkPuppy.

Consider that there aren't THAT many players alive anymore, too, I can't see how cream failed to realise that he put Elmo on the noose/really close to it.

I didn't count the players before voting. Incidentally, you are giving me a disproportional size of the blame there for the lynch. You are the one who put Elmo 'on the noose' remember. I admit I contributed to the lynch, but you (in full knowledge) delivered the hammer.

[Cream147]

Yes I did. And I see nothing bad with it. I see something bad with not standing up to it and saying "you didn't know".

So you'd rather I lied?

[Cream147]

I knew it was the third vote. I didn't know it was L-1. Yes, putting that vote on wasn't the smartest thing to do, looking at it now, but I was absolutely sure that Elmo was mafia at the time. You've done enough to give me slight doubts about that (though I'm still pretty sure that Elmo is mafia), but I didn't suggest it was the right time to hammer at that stage.

It's D3 of a mini. You know the numbers are going down. How many did you think we had to lynch?

If you didn't know, you should have counted the remaining players and divided by half. Anybody would do that. I always do.

For you to pretend you didn't know how many to lynch is ridiculous.

I would seriously consider lynching cream before zu or gorrad...

*sigh* Didn't think about numbers at all, put my vote on without thinking about any of that. After all, it seemed like we needed tons of votes to lynch yesterday. It was a foolish move. I don't really see why I would lie about thinking it was L-1 or not. At the end of the day, there would be no need for me to, because zu was the person who was in trouble and as obviously there is no doubting that I did know that it was L-1[/sarcasm], it seems like a foolish lie to make, taking all the pressure off zu and placing it onto me.

[Cream147]

Pink Puppy, even I have no objections.

I can't be bothered to defend myself. I'm Elmo's/Pyrodwarf's partner. Lynch me. However, I will say right now that I was telling the absolute truth yesterday. The only thing on my mind when I voted Elmo was distancing, I didn't think about votes required to lynch.

As I've clearly been outed by the werewolf that's remaining, I will take pleasure in giving the town a hint. I attempted to kill glork last night. That is relevant, I'm sure you're all aware of what that means. I could say more, I actually have a pretty strong idea of who the werewolf is now. However, I don't want to mess them up that much!

You can believe or not believe what I have to say, but I now have no reason to lie.

[Cream147]

Vote: Cream147

This time I know it's L-1.

[Cream147]

It's not L-1. I haven't voted you. I want to hear from the remaing players before we lynch you. Because we need all the info we can get for tomorrow.

If you tried to kill Glork, that clears zu, and means he is a real doc and not a quack.

Thanks for the info.

For me, that means the remaining werewolf is one of Aegor/Glork.

Yes, that's right. Oh, and god knows why I thought you'd voted for me!

[Cream147]

Aegor, if you did as you said you did, then you may have just screwed the town over big time. What the hell? I think we discussed the plan enough to know there was a god-damn plan! What Aegor is saying essentially means that zu_Faul isn't necessarily cleared, and could laugh himself to victory.

[Cream147]

Cream147 (1) Aegor
(No vote) Pink Puppy, Cream147, zu_Faul, Glork
5 alive. 3 to lynch.

Though I'd love to think that zu was scum and my first day instincts were correct, I have to lean towards Aegor lying. Pink Puppy just came up with a game breaking strategy and I think Aegor has invented this whole 'not followed the plan' thing to break the breaking strategy. That's what I think anyway.

[Cream147]

I thought he was the most pro-town, and worth protecting. I also had no idea what the plan was. I just skimmed over the last day, and all I could find was zu and Glork were sort of protecting each other. Someone also said that we were protecting the same people as the previous night if we wanted. I assumed that the pairings were off, so I targeted Glork.

Given this, I now know that zu is scum:

Aegor-Doc
Pink-Doc
Glork-Quack
Zu-Scum

The only problem is that we don't get a chance to lynch twice, do we? Actually, we might.

I will protect Pink tonight.

Tomorrow, lynch me.

The next night, Glork/PP target each other because zu is definitely scum.

Glork/PP lynch zu.

Does this work for everyone?

Your plan has a major flaw. Glork is a quack, and would kill Pink Puppy, causing zu to win. It's simple, you lynch right tomorrow, or you lose.

[Cream147]

If the werewolf is someone between zu/aegor/glork (and each of them is equally likely to be the werewolf) then the best lynch would be zu/glork. However, that's only if you believe that each is equally likely.

[Cream147]

BTW, who could hypothetically be scum at this point? Assume I protected Glork for the moment. Could he still be scum?

Yes

[Cream147]

It really does, which is why you should have followed the plan! If you had just followed the plan, then town would have undeniably won. I would have had my revenge on that wolf who revealed me.

[Cream147]

By the way, I'm enjoying helping the town get my revenge on that werewolf. I prefer being town than scum. Shame I won't be able to claim a win whatever happens!

[Cream147]

I have lost. Why would I lie at this point? I certainly do not wish to help the scum who outed me. Besides, if Aegor is telling the truth, the fact I attempted to kill you (glork) is unimportant. It means nothing. Oh, and don't take the kill attempt on you personally, I was trying to expose zu!

[Cream147]

Cream147 (1) Aegor
(No vote) Pink Puppy, Cream147, zu_Faul, Glork
5 alive. 3 to lynch.

ok, so a few thoughts that have popped into my head that will help you tomorrow.

1) Scum knows who quack is. They know that if the quack is lynched, they lose. Watch out for people reluctant to vote for their protecting partner. Self-voting is a very viable option if you think your partner is scum as it's just as good as voting your partner.

2) The other scum must have had a hunch that I was mafia. Think about that.

3) As you seem to have no grasp of the game Aegor, let me just explain this to you. If the quack is lynched tomorrow, protect Pink Puppy. If Pink Puppy was the quack, you're scum, and so can disregard what I say

Lynch me whenever you like now, I've said what I most wanted to say.

[Cream147]

1) Scum knows who quack is. They know that if the quack is lynched, they lose. Watch out for people reluctant to vote for their protecting partner. Self-voting is a very viable option if you think your partner is scum as it's just as good as voting your partner.

I know what you mean, but I don't see how it makes sense in this case. No one knows who anyone is. I am reluctant to vote for PP and for myself equally because I know that we are both docs.

How does it not make sense? As I said, if you think your partner is scum (so if you thought Pink Puppy was scum), then self-voting is just as good as voting for your partner. The slight advantage of self-voting would be that you would get the others trust that you're not scum. If you think that you and Pink Puppy are the docs, then obviously don't vote for yourself.

[Cream147]

You can lynch me anytime now. I've said my bit.

[Cream147]

No I didn't! Check Night 3!

[Cream147]

Oh, and so I've been right all along that zu_Faul was scum. That gives me some satisfaction. If Aegor had just followed the plan, we would've both screwed each other over and EPIC FAIL!