Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[mutantdevle]

Votecount 2.3

(2)

Almost50 - voted by: skitter30, wilky.

(1)

Tchill13 - voted by: Espeonage.

(1)

LaserGuy - voted by: Almost50.

(1)

skitter30 - voted by: Thor665.

(1)

Not_Mafia - voted by: Beefster.

(1)

Beefster - voted by: Montosh.

(1)

wilky - voted by: Not_Mafia.

(2)

Not voting: Tchill13, LaserGuy.

With 10 players alive, 6 votes are needed for a majority. Only 5 votes are needed for a no lynch.

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2018-03-17 11:30:00)

[Tchill13]

Calling the slot you are replacing scummy used to be one of the highest success rate wikitells but they redux'd the wikitells portal so I can't pull it up. It was named after someone though but I can't for the life of me remember who.

I believe the mentality was that people who replace a scum slot feel the need to address the scumminess of the slot rather than just playing and denotes a strong survivalistic mentality and is basically a pressure that town replacements don't feel which is why it almost never happens from town.

I like this a lot. I've never heard of it. Makes sense.

[Tchill13]

You were also a claimed PR from like page 2 that game.

There was a time I was going to shoot you night 1.

Thank you for proving my point that you're utterly bad even if you're town. I really appreciate it.[/quote

Like I said. Can't wait to see why Fanta was lynch lynched over NM, bujabar/almost slot or the korina slot.

Yes I'm stating the play of my predecessor is odd. While not necessarily scummy I believe it's odd enough for scum to have pushed for a lynch day 1. I'm not completely surprised though. As I said earlier scum is gonna want to keep players around that's beneficial to them to set up later lynches. I'm telling you right now somebody who mentioned NM or a korina lynch but voted Fanta is scum.

[Tchill13]

It comes down to mentality.

Scum still don't want to be in the limelight, and they definitely still need to avoid death. Mafia also need to not appear too town dependent on who wolves go after. So people who are preoccupied with appearance would strike me as likely scum, as well as people trying to avoid scrutiny and avoid being in the center of attention, especially if they are a weaker player who are unsure of their ability to argue out of a pinch.

Later on we will have relationals. Day 1 of multiball is always going to be a narrow selection of applicable actions for scum as scum have an easier time of appearing town.

I'm not used to multiball. I'm used to finding scum through lack of scum hunting. So this will be different for me but I'm looking forward to it and things like this help.

[Almost50]

1st: Tchill liked the Amished tell for a scum hunting tool, yet is continuing to use it. (1 scum point awarded. but not yet enough to justify a vote)

[Thor665]

That feels too scummy to be scummy.

[Tchill13]

1st: Tchill liked the Amished tell for a scum hunting tool, yet is continuing to use it. (1 scum point awarded. but not yet enough to justify a vote)

Well I'm viewing korina as a separate player but at the same time can't ignore that her slot is now my slot. If you'll look I haven't defended her at all. I've asked why she wasn't lynched over Fanta day 1. You can lynch me but don't do it because you sorta kinda wanted to lynch korina then policy was yelled at the player who replaced into the slot.

[Thor665]

Amished tell isn't about defending your slot.

[skitter30]

so just to be straight fanta got lymched OVER bujabar and NM? when it's quite obvious and agreed upon NM will be in anyone's lynch pool until he decides to participate which is highly unlikely. Anyone that points to NM and says "yeah he's suspicious but..." will stick out like a sore thumb to me. NM is exactly the type of player scum keep around until it's time to win the game. Keep your lynch pool short and get rid of the players you know will be in it.

OK if you're scum you're probably not scum with NM.

haven't seen much from almost50 and it doesn't "mesh" with my reads as of late.

It looks like you figured out later that A50 replaced bujaber. Would you be interested in voting there once you've finished your catchup?

------
Thor, before I get entrenched in another argument with you, I want you to answer this:

I think I asked this before, but why do I feel like your whole game is about me?

And I want to know why you're ignoring me when I ask you about that, and why you're ignoring me when I ask you to talk about other people - most recently the tchill thing. I don't think his opener is significant, but you apparently feel his opener is worth probing, and disagreed with my opinion that it wasn't AI. Why'd you drop it once I asked you about it, only to instead continue an argument about how you think I'm scummy?

It kinda looks to me like you're trying to narrow our conversation to the topic of why I find you scummy and vice versa.

-------

I like this a lot. I've never heard of it. Makes sense.

that being said im wondering why fanta was lynched over Bujabar, korina and NM now.

I kinda want to apply that tell to you wondering why your own slot didn't get lynched.

If you'll look I haven't defended her at all.

Right, but 402 coming on the heels of you reading about the Amished tell makes it look like you were trying to defend korina's behavior without explicitly calling the slot scummy.

[LaserGuy]

There were five wagons at the time: You, Thor, wilky, Dr. Fanta, and A50. I had Town on you and Thor, so I wasn't going to vote there. I was suspicious of everyone on the wilky wagon and didn't want to sheep them. It was a toss-up for me between A50 and Dr. Fanta, and my scumread on Fanta was stronger.

OK fair enough. What's your present read on me/thor/A50?

You're a strong Townread.

When I started writing this, I was going to say that I have Thor as a Town lean and A50 as a scum lean, but in trying to wrap my head about the fact that we only have five townies in a ten person game, I think they're actually both PoE in my scum pile right now. Both are due for a reread at some point when I have access to enough scotch to get me through all of those walls.

Actually, I'm going to amend this. I'm getting a lot of buddy vibes between the two of them today that I find very suspicious. I don't think that it's possible all three of you can be Town at once.

VOTE: Almost50

[skitter30]

+1

I will add that I can't get either of them to explain townreads on the other - Thor's been ignoring my requests and A50 has been saying he'd do it later, but hasn't.

[Thor665]

Thor, before I get entrenched in another argument with you, I want you to answer this:

I think I asked this before, but why do I feel like your whole game is about me?

I would ask you to justify it as factually true enough for me to waste breath on disabusing.
Because the best you could claim is this "Thor is highly focused on his primary scumread and makes a lot of posts about them" which is absolutely true.
But to that I would ask - so what?
Beyond that my question would be "how do you claim that multiple of my reads are based around you and what subjects do you think i'm avoiding/not discussing?"

Because you can't actually functionally answer that question your premise is shown to be the gak it is.

And I want to know why you're ignoring me when I ask you about that, and why you're ignoring me when I ask you to talk about other people - most recently the tchill thing. I don't think his opener is significant, but you apparently feel his opener is worth probing, and disagreed with my opinion that it wasn't AI. Why'd you drop it once I asked you about it, only to instead continue an argument about how you think I'm scummy?

I ignored the question because, as stated, the premise is so inherently flawed it's silly to give it the time of day.
I haven't ignored you about other players - or, more importantly *I* haven't ignored other players but will agree I haven't spent a lot of time debating scum about my reads.
You dropped the Tchill conversation, not me. Your last point in the conversation was that you agreed that you didn't understand my stance - which is what I claimed as reality. That ends the conversation for me - because all the conversation was was you attacking me for bupkiss - I don't need to keep following it up after you admit to the bupkiss.

It kinda looks to me like you're trying to narrow our conversation to the topic of why I find you scummy and vice versa.

I agree that I have on many occasions tried to narrow down your claims and you have actively avoided that situation.
I don't see that as showing me in a bad light.

[Thor665]

+1

I will add that I can't get either of them to explain townreads on the other - Thor's been ignoring my requests and A50 has been saying he'd do it later, but hasn't.

That's a straight up lie.
I explained my read here.
viewtopic.php?p=9986710#p9986710
I also explained the read multiple times to multiple players.

[Thor665]

Where'd you even try to get me to discuss the read?
In my ISO I appear to be discussing it with other people exclusively.

[Tchill13]

Your points are fair but I'm not gonna dispute them.

I'm on pg 17 and I'm fine with an almost50 lynch rn.

[skitter30]

Where'd you even try to get me to discuss the read?
In my ISO I appear to be discussing it with other people exclusively.

viewtopic.php?p=9993797#p9993797

You said that replacing out under pressure *strengthened* (268) your townread of him, and I want to know where that came from initially, and honestly yeah, it looks like he replaced out cuz he couldn't handle being scumread and didn't know how to respond to wilky. I usually read 'avoiding pressure' as a scumtell.

Because the best you could claim is this "Thor is highly focused on his primary scumread and makes a lot of posts about them" which is absolutely true.

Right, and my point is that I don't get why you're doing that:

I haven't ignored you about other players - or, more importantly *I* haven't ignored other players but

will agree I haven't spent a lot of time debating scum about my reads

.

You *have* spent a lot of time debating your primary scumread about your read on her.

And that's why I think you're super-focused on me, given that you think I'm scum but you keep trying to continue an argument with me about your read on me

Like from the bolded you agree that debating your reads with scum is a silly thing to spend time on, so .... why are you doing that?

Like just looking about your posts this day-phase - I'm the primary subject (you talk about Tchill too). You're not even trying to talk to other people about why I'm scummy, but you're instead just telling me why you think I'm scummy. Just like .... why? Why do you keep on trying to continue this argument with me when you think I'm scum?

And just like - I'm your primary scumread. I don't think I'm getting wagoned right now. Instead of telling me why you think I'm scum for the umpteenth time, wouldn't your efforts be better spent developing other scumreads instead of tunneling me?

You dropped the Tchill conversation, not me. Your last point in the conversation was that you agreed that you didn't understand my stance - which is what I claimed as reality. That ends the conversation for me - because all the conversation was was you attacking me for bupkiss - I don't need to keep following it up after you admit to the bupkiss.

No, that was me asking you to explain it cuz I didn't get it. That doesn't mean I think I'm wrong or that I'm dropping it, but rather means I don't understand your side and I'm trying to get you to explain it.

(At this point I think at least some of this argument is that we're *really* not communicating with each other well tbh)

[Tchill13]

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

You've never misread me before. What's the matter?

-Pepper

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

Also I asked for your opinion on Thor, not wilky and I.

Probably town, would lynch though

VOTE: Thor

That's scummy as fuck but okay

this is interesting considering fanta flipped town.

@NM how can you justify leaning town on someone but being ok with his lynch?

[Tchill13]

I pretty sure I am scumhunting.

Would you like to tell more lies and scream and cry, and avoid answering questions while complaining that someone isn't scumhunting?

i'll be honest on my catch up i've ignored the wall posts from thor. He seems to be at the center of a lot of attention and is making a lot of "noise" that doesn't seem to really accomplish anything. Comes off as loud scum to me.

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

You read my mind

why even say you are ok with a thor lynch?

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

i'm having trouble understanding why the attention of this slot disappeared.

Bujabar pitched a fit, the wagon dissipated. Almost seems to be very assertive and confident with his reads and i've yet to see someone be suspicious of him.

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

Actually that a lie I was thinking Fanta/skitter wolves, wilky/laser/Korina mafia due to inexplicable resistance on wilky

Korina paired with Wilky makes more sense to me than paired with Fanta.
I'm not sure why either of you are particularly scumming on Laser.

i can't stand when people guess teams on day 1 lol. Reasons being that day 1 usually results in a town lynch. Like this game even though the odds of hitting scum are almost 50 percent.

[Tchill13]

OK, so where am I being daft?

Do you actually think me disagreeing with his reads is why I got red flags from his readslist? Or are you honestly daft enough to not know that someone's reads being wishy-washy-null on people that are being read very strongly by others, and having reads that make zero sense from a town POV, is scummy?

-Pepper

Here wilky, I'll even quote myself so you don't miss it this time. I know, pretending to scumread someone is so hard, especially when you don't feel like actually reading their posts. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll manage to not claim scum D1 next time around. Don't beat yourself up too much.

-Pepper

Fuck these wagons

Are you getting annoyed that the entirety of my wagon composition is more scum than can be on one team therefore making more likely to be town? I asked you earlier why you're scumreading me this time around, as you've never been wrong before and I'm honestly intrigued. Is it because I'm hydra'ing?

-Pepper

im not a fan of condescending tones. Fanta also began to muck up the thread and showed a terrible attitude. I'm starting to see why he was lynched... That being said there were still better options.

[Thor665]

Where'd you even try to get me to discuss the read?
In my ISO I appear to be discussing it with other people exclusively.

viewtopic.php?p=9993797#p9993797

You said that replacing out under pressure *strengthened* (268) your townread of him, and I want to know where that came from initially, and honestly yeah, it looks like he replaced out cuz he couldn't handle being scumread and didn't know how to respond to wilky. I usually read 'avoiding pressure' as a scumtell.

I expressed my soft town on BuJaber pretty early as a simple ISO search would have shown you.
My other core interaction with me was me banging against a handful of his reads and, unlike you, not finding giant gaping holes to walk through so that basically they fell by the wayside because I couldn't describe them in a scum light - which looks townish last I checked.

Right, and my point is that I don't get why you're doing that:

I would think it's self obvious why I would want you to be able to actually clearly state your stance.

You *have* spent a lot of time debating your primary scumread about your read on her.

And I would note that I'm not debating you to convince you.
I'm debating you to show holes to convince others.
Which is pretty clearly shown by my play at multiple points wherein whenever I think i scored a good point I immediately started to ask people their thoughts on that point, and then was filled with wroth as they handwaved it.

And that's why I think you're super-focused on me, given that you think I'm scum but you keep trying to continue an argument with me about your read on me

I happily agree I'm super focused on you.
That's different from a claim that all my reads are based off of you.

Like just looking about your posts this day-phase - I'm the primary subject (you talk about Tchill too). You're not even trying to talk to other people about why I'm scummy, but you're instead just telling me why you think I'm scummy. Just like .... why? Why do you keep on trying to continue this argument with me when you think I'm scum?

Like, just reading your posts this day phase (and handwaving things that prove my thesis is wrong) I can make claims about your play
- skitter

And just like - I'm your primary scumread. I don't think I'm getting wagoned right now. Instead of telling me why you think I'm scum for the umpteenth time, wouldn't your efforts be better spent developing other scumreads instead of tunneling me?

I have other scumreads.
Doesn't mean I don't want to lynch you first.
Which runaway alternate wagon do you think I should be excited by exactly?
I thought Korina was scummy, but the current Tchill push (that Thor has discussed while only talking about Skitter) is based on derp which makes me skeevy.
The Wilky wagon had legs for about three seconds, and if it comes back I'd go somewhere with it, but it's currently in the doldrums.
And you're being a scumbutt.

No, that was me asking you to explain it cuz I didn't get it. That doesn't mean I think I'm wrong or that I'm dropping it, but rather means I don't understand your side and I'm trying to get you to explain it.

What about my stance don't you understand? If you want something answered there are these magic things called 'questions' you can use to seek info.

(At this point I think at least some of this argument is that we're *really* not communicating with each other well tbh)

Like how you are still skating away from the core point that you're calling scumhunting scummy and can't explain that stance for a hill of beans?

[Tchill13]

Final Votecount

(7 LYNCHED)

Dr Fanta - voted by: wilky, Beefster, LaserGuy, Thor665, Almost50, TheGoldenParadox, Not_Mafia.

(4)

Thor665 - voted by: Montosh, Korina, Dr Fanta, skitter30.

(1)

Almost50 - voted by: Espeonage.

Dr Fanta has been lynched!

wilky, thor, almost, NM is my lynch pool. They're ALL on this.

IF almost flips anything other than town espeonage may not be town.

[Tchill13]

lol

VOTE: Dr Fanta

Should have been wilky