Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Titus]

I'll be out most of the day. I will catch you guys later.

[Shaziro]

Shaziro, do you play Town of Salem?

I did very briefly, yes.

@Elbirn- Referring to silk being in "Inappropriate and undesirable" situations is what made me think that it was related to sexual scandals. I can't think of any other case where silk is related to inappropriate and undesirable situations, and that is a reach for a connection I agree. But I know that Mafia Roleblockers are sometimes called "Prositutes" or "Escourts" or "Courtesans".

[BuJaber]

HEAL: Yay: Peace-keeping: brass

Nero could you explain why you think I would be scum if dunk flips scum?

VOTE: pidgey
The catchup when he first started posting seemed good. But the more recent scumhunting seems non-committal and as if he want to keep the most amount of people happy.

For example did anyone get if he town or scum reads me? Because I can't actually tell.

[Nero Cain]

you suggested that we lynch Koki and if she flips town then Dunk is town too.

[BuJaber]

Oh right you still think I'm wrong about that.

Anyway you don't have to agree but I'll say it again fwiw that's because I don't see the scum motivation to champion town koki in the first page of the game.

[Chara]

BuJaber: how so? specifically keeping the most amount of people happy., and what scumhunting seems non-committal.
i don't know how pidgey's reading you, but is missing a read on you in a large game noncommittal? he hasn't really been talking about you to begin with. there's also no read on me.

pedit: does everything scum do have to have some sort of scum agenda? i think regardless of dunker's alignment he just thought it was RVS.

[BuJaber]

He seems to softly agree to wagons without offering alternatives he hard reads --> appeases most people

He is talking about me. I mean sure he is analyzing me via ISO'ing other people but he is doing it. My name is mentioned in his posts several times all while claiming he's ignoring me. He says somewhere he agrees I seem scummy. Then when he's talking about nero he says I'm towny from the quotes nero quoted.

It's just weird to say the least. Maybe if you're ignoring me and haven't read my posts don't try to form an opinion. I wouldn't have expected a read if he never mentioned me.

[Chara]

i now realized he's been calling you Bu, thus making ISOing him for your name a chore. thanks, pidgey. :> i guess i'll give it a look, but i still like his early play and it would take a lot to convince me away from Creature.
what you're saying about Bujaber is similar to what Nero has said about me. minus the Creature thing, i suppose. thoughts?

[Varsoon]

HEAL: Ban: Silk
Since there's no reason to vote for Peacekeep on brass since it's already got a few votes and only a madman would vote against it.

[Chara]

i was sort of looking forward to some kind of disagreement on resolution votes, but it wasn't going to happen with the ones we have. maybe on another day.

[BuJaber]

As for the pedit question yeah why not? Everything scum does is either :
- to imitate their town meta / look towny
- to defend / not expose / dissassociate from partners
- to have a town following (either personally or by championing a partner)
- to get townies lynched ( particularly strong ones)
- to expose PRs

All of these are anti-town.

[Varsoon]

That's really second-level thinking, Bujaber.
You'll never catch first or third level scum that way.

[Shaziro]

You'll only get disagreement when the thing comes up and it turns out "Oh no the delegates messed up their description of the things, and we actually -don't- want this!" or, when there's a lot of arguing over who should go up as delegate.

Cooperation early will prevent confusion now. It's our best strategy, given scum -want- us confused.

[BuJaber]

I also think scum would have known that delegate botes are final.

[Varsoon]

This is to say:
Some scum will want to look scummy.
Some scum will expose their partners entirely or won't defend them at all.
Some scum do not care about a town following, especially if they're looking to be exposed by a partner.
Some scum do not want town lynched. Especially in multiball.
Some scum want PRs hidden because mass-claims break games.


P-EDIT:
I also went in thinking scum wouldn't mess up setup knowledge (you can see how it colored my early reads), but even after thoroughly reading the setup, unexpected outcomes have happened twice for me:
1. I thought the resolution list would be private at first, then certain responses made me think the resolution list would be public, but it's obviously still private.
2. I thought that bonus delegates from hosting were tied to player slots and not the 'host' position.

[BuJaber]

That's really second-level thinking, Bujaber.
You'll never catch first or third level scum that way.

Maybe but isn't the 'level' just referring to how they achieve the objectives I laid down? The basic objectives are the same at all levels.

I could be wrong. I didn't think this woukd turn into a discussion. It's not discussion-worthy. Catching scum is what matters. You don't have to do it the same way I do.


-pedit: point number 1 is fine. Point 2 to be honest I had no problem understanding it from the get go. The description in the first page made it clear to me we all start with 1 host gets extra while they're host. Later days may mean extra delegates.

[BuJaber]

Also I wasn't saying that all scum would do all of those things. Of course not. I was saying all thing scum would do that I can think of right now all fit into one or more of them.

[Varsoon]

Scum only have one objective, Bujaber: Eliminate all enemies.
In singleball, that means defeat the town.
In multiball, it means all factions that aren't their own.

I started using the whole 'levels' thing as a joke a long time ago, but it refers to the level of WIFOM that a player is playing on.
Level 2 Scum would mean it's scum trying to play in a way that looks town.

I think that mafia is a more complex game than having a checklist of "Things scum would do" and "Things town would do" and just weighing each player on that scale.
Limiting yourself to that scope only sets you up to get gamed by scum and inhibit your abilities as town, imo.

[BuJaber]

Look I don't actually have a list. I made it up on the flu right now. Chara asked if everything scum does has to be scum motivated and I just wanted to answer with yes. I don't actually approach the game with a checklist but when you are trying to align a player you look at what they've done and ask if it makes sense from town pov or if it's scum motivated.

Analyzing tone, reactions, whatever else can help but it can also hurt because it less objective.

[Varsoon]

I'm gonna blow your mind real quick
When I play as scum, not everything that I do is scum motivated. Sometimes I do things completely antithetical to my wincon. It's not for any WIFOM either, it's just because I think it's funny.
As town, I play contrary to a town win con a ton. I lurk because I'm apathetic to the game. I complain in-forum when that's not helping me achieve wincon at all. I make gambits and jokes and posts that have no business coming from town and don't do anything to help me actually win the game.

Earlier, someone pointed out that I have claimed scum twice this game, so they couldn't trust me.
In what world does either alignment claim scum if they're playing to wincon?

[pidgey]

Yeah im bad comiiting to reads maybe

But i think you are scummy buja, if that doesnt seem clear. While I think ranmaru is town and nero is slightly town.

[pidgey]

I still think klazam is scummier, and shaziro I didnt like that post i quoted so ill look more into him later. Im at phone right now so cant and im eating delicious food.

[Klazam]

HEAL: Ban: Silk

Might as well figure out what that is, and I think that WC votes don’t need majority, just needs more yes than no. And To be honest, at this point, I think any no votes on brass is straight scum claim. Silk can be ambivalent, depending on if there’s a good role reason for it.

if day ends without all delegates cast, do the resolutions pass anyway?

If answer to the above is yes, then we should get going on lynching someone. I’m still on gamma, but I’ll be rereading at work, see how I feel about other people.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Creature

I think this is the best wagon today.

[Dunkerdoodles]

Nero: it did click how posting without being scummy to you is better than not posting at all. thanks.
i do think Dunker is scummy, especially with the lack of Creature meta knowledge. his reads in general are also all very backwards to mine.

Joey: i don't think it's awful. one can't really plan their V/LAs. if Kiana's town i'm excited to see what she'll do once caught up.

pedit: thanks. :>

im scum for not knowing someone's meta?
ok then