Mini Normal 1989: A Perfectly Normal Day -- Game Over

[Chumba]

Yes because i wasn’t sure if Nero was scum or not. I thought he played more like scum than town. It’s easy when you’re in the dead thread. It’s different in real time.

I’ll work on not pushing people who don’t play how I expect them to but I’ll never stop pushing liars. Ultimately that was havo’s downfall. Town should never lie or intentionally misrep and he did and I did what I felt was necessary he got lynched. I knew in my soul he was scum. I never thought for a second he could be town. Why would he do that as town?

I don’t think I’ll ever get an answer cause even in the dead thread he denies he did anything wrong.

I’ve admitted my mistakes. I’ll try harder to work on them. I’m sincerely sorry I lost the game for everyone.

Good luck everyone

[Chumba]

For the record I never saw mason crumbs and had no clue tchill was the other.

[Chumba]

With me specifically it's hard for me to reevaluate people once I've made up my mind. Probably the thing I need to work on the most. It my early game reads aren't usually great.

so why did you give me so much shit for it when you do the same and you know I do it also?

[Chumba]

yeah I'll probably just ignore you if I think that's happening

i don't think ignoring is the best way to deal with the situation.

[Chumba]

But I made a case based on actions and everyone either ignored it or tried to say it didn’t happen.

That’s my biggest issue. Nobody wanted to actually talk about havo’s blatant misrep. It became you and him flat out denying it happened despite me showing it did vs me.

Everyone else tuned out.

That’s why havo v me needed to be resolved day 1 either by lynch or discussing the issue. Pretending it didn’t happen was the wrong play in the end.

[Chumba]

I get it now. He made a mistake. He didn’t admit it though. He pushed the wrong narrative even after being shown the mistake.

I had to decide if he was doing it intentionally or he was just being stubborn. I chose wrong.

I’ll take that blame n

[Chumba]

I may not be one of the most popular people here, but I think especially post game, anyone of the losing faction has to own up to making some mistakes, and that's how you become a better player.

Most definitely. Nobody is perfect. Admit mistakes and try to improve them.

It’s also good to discuss where we went wrong.

[Chumba]

I didn’t fake a guilty actually and my refusal to claim has nothing to do with that. I hate mass claims and don’t typically participate and I certainly don’t when somebody forces us into one. (Another knock against Nero)


I never technically lied. I said I know he was scum because down to my very core I believed he was scum. I did it in a mischievous way sure, but I never claimed to have role info.

Havo actually lied, but of course you don’t have any issues with that do you? Are you going to not trust him ever again?

I can go find many games where town lied. You going to make a list of people you can’t trust, I’ll help you.

I don’t ever lie or intentionally mislead people, despite people saying it’s ok to do it as town, but this one game I felt it was justified. That’s how sure I was he was scum. His town flip floored me.

[Chumba]

My man you did softcrumb a guilty on Havo or at least some sort of pr

I did it in a mischievous way sure

I realize that. That’s how sure I was though. He flat out lied.

[Chumba]

I’m sorry for that.

[Chumba]

Lying on purpose because it's the only way you'll lynch you're scum read because you don't actually have a case on him, literally just one statement... is different than lying in other ways.

you do realize havo lied on purpose to lynch me because he didn't have a case on me right?

he did the SAME FUCKING THING.

he also intentionally misrepped ethos.

why are these actions ok in your eyes? please explain

[Chumba]

You’re tunneling

Why yes I am.

You’re a better player than this. That’s why I think you’re scum.

This entire post is a lie.

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

here is where is true colors come out.

How do i ignore that?

what is the town motivation to mislead people like that?

I can justify my lie, can He justify his?

Can you?

Can anyone else?

can ANYONE tell me why his lie was ok and mine wasn't?

please I need to know which lies are ok and which ones aren't so i can play this game better.

[Chumba]

I've yet to see anyone agree with you on havo

they don't have to agree with me for it to be fact.

FACT - havo lied
FACT - the world is round

both have people who don't agree with those statements despite they can and have been proven true.

[Chumba]

Chumba you said that you put great effort in.
Now there is something that can maybe help you, but it is time consuming:
Go back to each game you played, and analyze your reads and their correctness; and the reasons for your reads. Then you can weed out some reasons you used; specifically those that do not have good accuracy ; this will help you not only pushing people for the right reasons, but it will also help you assess the strength of your reasons.

I really wish I had that kind of time.

going forward I will just try to avoid tunneling and be less argumentative. That's about all I can do

[Chumba]

You can't justify your lie lol. It's never OK to soft anything as a VT.

that's false. i have seen VTs soft PRs to draw NKs. That is one of the things I have been told is an acceptable lie on this site.

[Chumba]

I NEVER lied dude. Never.

unfortunately you did.

[Chumba]

90% of the time I agree with you on that one, and like I said I apologize for doing it but one of us needed to be lynched. If you didn't go crazy with your role claiming idea, this entire game could have been different.

[Chumba]

You can't justify your lie lol. It's never OK to soft anything as a VT.

that's false. i have seen VTs soft PRs to draw NKs. That is one of the things I have been told is an acceptable lie on this site.

I completely disagree with this but let's say I did.

Did you lie to draw out a NK? Why were you left till lylo?

I hinted at being a PR to finally end the 1 v 1 which should have been ended day 1. I was completely convinced havo was scum and didn't see any way outside of that tunnel and it needed to be resolved before mylo/lylo. I had convinced myself that with his flip, scum would kill me because I'd be confirmed town.

problem was he wasn't actually scum.

I was left alive because of the above, and because my reads were bad.

[Chumba]

Lies from VT's create confusion. That's all they create. If you're still alive at lylo after softing multiple times and you claim VT I'll lynch you every time.

I agree with this and I have prided myself on never lying. I can no longer claim I don't lie as town anymore because I was THAT sure havo was scum.

I fucked up, i admitted my mistakes already and keep doing it.

I'm just sad that havo can't be man enough to do the same. When you fuck up you admit your mistakes. That is what a person with integrity would do.

[Chumba]

Chumba I’m fine with playing with you again. Seriously, I have no ill will towards you because of this.

I can't play with a person with no integrity.

have a good life.

[Chumba]

You can't justify your lie lol. It's never OK to soft anything as a VT.

that's false. i have seen VTs soft PRs to draw NKs. That is one of the things I have been told is an acceptable lie on this site.

I completely disagree with this but let's say I did.

Did you lie to draw out a NK? Why were you left till lylo?

I hinted at being a PR to finally end the 1 v 1 which should have been ended day 1. I was completely convinced havo was scum and didn't see any way outside of that tunnel and it needed to be resolved before mylo/lylo. I had convinced myself that with his flip, scum would kill me because I'd be confirmed town.

problem was he wasn't actually scum.

I was left alive because of the above, and because my reads were bad.

hmmm then why didn't you think one day before LYLO:"Why am I still alive"?

the one day before lylo was when we lynched havo. The next day was when we were in lylo and mass claim happened

[Chumba]

If I call someone good and they fail to meet those standards this particular time but they have before is that a lie?

go read the context again. he was saying I am better than to tunnel somebody.

anyone who has ever played with me knows I am not better than that. no matter how hard I try, I end up tunneling somebody.

he also lied about ethos. he said ethos said one thing when he said something else.

nobody sees my side of the story so whatever. i'll just sit alone knowing i was right deal with it.

[Chumba]

Mulch, please stop. I think it is enough that chumba saw that they played badly and said they will improve.
Chumba, please notice that it is also you playstyle that is under criticism here.
If you play like an asshole(which was your own definition of your play) then that disrupts town.

I get it. I’ll try yet again go dial it back. I just see scummy behavior and push it. Would make it easier if people stopped doing scummy things

[Chumba]

(however, I blame you the most).

and rightfully so. I don't know how many times I can apologize but i'll keep doing it.

I just wish others would admit their own mistakes instead of making me the sole scapegoat.

[Chumba]

I don't see why you wouldn't mass claim the day before lylo every time.

what's the point of a mass claim? scum can lie and you don't know who's telling the truth.

i have also seen town lose games due to what they think was a balanced setup.

take this game. sure tracker/doctor was the actual setup but it could have easily just been 2 masons and nothing else.

scum hunt > mass claims

[Chumba]

You're not the sole scapegoat.

How do you expect others to be able to play the game when you're demanding every situation you are in be handled immediately?

2 day phases went by where nobody followed me and what happened?

you mislynched 2 townies.

You also made this statement

Who wants to join me in never lynching chumba or havo so when they both flip town after we caught all the scum we can all laugh together? Anyone?

Profii is scum. Brass is scum with him.

Nero you're on the right track imo.

were brass and profli scum?

no.

If we lynched one of me and havo day 1, the game would have gone completely different.

You had bad reads. everyone did.

[Chumba]

Literally my favorite part of the game is where chumba said "eth0s and tchill thought Nero was scum" right before he voted Nero lol.

why is that funny? it's true

you both were suspicious of him and you both died. I had no idea there were mason crumbs linking you together, i assumed it was because of your reads.

[Chumba]

Chumba played the entire game looking to place the blame on others after havo flipped VT.

to be fair, everyone played like shit this game except ethos and joey.

I just played the worst.

[Chumba]

If you demand every argument you're involved in be settled immediately don't be surprised when you're the one lynched every time.

I wish more people would just lynch me instead of ignoring me. maybe that way i'd actually learn my lesson.

[Chumba]

All right.

Sorry again for losing the game. This was hopefully a humbling experience that I hope to never recreate again.

[Chumba]

noted Thanks

[Chumba]

You need to consider whether what they did comes from a town-motivated or scum-motivated mindset.

That’s the same thing people cram down my throat every game. The funny thing is I do that. I did that.

I think Nero Cain was one of the more proactive players and that should have contributed to townreading him.

But activity isn’t AI. Everyone knows that. Look at schad and chick? Nero was more active as we got closer to mylo/lylo and I didn’t feel he was bringing much to the table.

The biggest thing for me with Nero was how he acted when I voted him in lylo. He didn’t seem nervous. At the very least when a player knows another townie just voted him, he should try hard to change their mind. He should be scared. I just didn’t see it.

Nero is hard to read apparently. I’m sorry.

[Chumba]

It’s kind of easy to be spot on when from your POV scum is only 2 people.

[Chumba]

like i can kind of get an intuitive sense of what's worth sheeping from players i'm familiar with

I don't sheep, I also don't try to rely on meta either (1. because meta is easily manipulated, that's how I play so good as scum and 2. I don't really pay attention to people's tendencies that much. I have a shitty memory when it comes to that kind of thing.)

with that being said, had I used meta my scum reads would be havo/tchill/profil. neither of them played to their town meta this game. tchill is the only one I can understand, he was a mason and masons almost always look like scum.

somehow I need to be able to tell the difference between town playing poorly/scummy and actual scum. I don't know if I will ever be able to do that when so many townies play poorly/scummy.

[Chumba]

It was scummy to me.

[Chumba]

@joey. Who is your other account?

Cloudkicker

Btw about havo’s play, you asked me what is the town motivation in misreping. You actually have to ask yourself if it is really misrepping, why wouldn’t havo actually believe that you are a better player than tunnelling? Is it more an opinion or a fact ? Disagreeing on opinion isnt lying, its just that, disagreeing

And if it’s a fact?

Tunneling is unfortunately my playstyle and he knows this.

So now that it’s a fact that I’m not better than tunneling what does it make it?

An opinion still or a misrep/lie?

[Chumba]

So now you don’t even make sense.

If it’s an opinion it’s not a lie. If it’s a fact it’s not one either?

You were better off not even saying anything at all to me.

P.edit - I do know what he believes. He said what he truly believes later in the game. That I’m a tunneler.

Covered that already.

[Chumba]

@Chumba

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT YOUR TUNNELING GARBAGE LEADS TOO!!!!!!!!!

WE HAVE ALL SEEN IT BEFORE AND ITS WRONG 90% OF THE TIME!!!!!!!!

This is what he believes.

[Chumba]

So. While it was shitty for me to lie to lynch him. He lied first. I know 2 wrongs don’t make a right but he started it.

I’ll try not to tunnel anymore but it’s going to seriously affect my gameplay

[Chumba]

That’s all good after the game is over havo. I didn’t have the knowledge during the game that you simply made a couple mistakes and had a bad memory of my play. You didn’t admit to them during the game and because of that I felt they were intentional. Had you done that things would have gone differently.

[Chumba]

I think you missed my point entirely

Yeah I guess I did.

[Chumba]

I’m an asshole sure but I try. I was the only one to try in lylo. Wasted hours of time researching posts and reading things. Nobody else put in that effort yet I still man’d up and took some responsibility.

You don’t have to be a nice guy to play mafia. You do have to try hard and do your best which is what I always do.

i'm an asshole in game too, its knowing to drop it when the game ends and acknowledge when you're wrong mate.

Ive acknowledged my mistakes mate. Others need to do the same though. Havo in particular.

[Chumba]

no, it could not have easily been 2 masons, this is the normal queue with attempted balance guaranteed.

Thanks Monday morning quarterback. You weren’t playing so you clearly didn’t see the game I found fairly recent that had just 2 masons and nothing else.

That passed normal guidelines.

[Chumba]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73108

you mean the game with 2 scum? lmao

Yes. Why is that funny? It could be the same or similar setup. I didn’t know if this game had 2 or 3 scum.

P.edit - I’ve seen setup spec, nka, and VCA all lead to the wrong conclusions. Neither of those are 100%

[Chumba]

well, if there were 2 scum and 1 was dead both claims couldn't be scum, and 2 scum is also astronomically rare for minis. like, that is the only one i've ever seen.

At least 6 games with 2 scum. Probably more but got bored

This is pointless because I ended up not lynching the claims. I instead used NKA combined with scum hunting and still fucked it up

[Chumba]

Why are you talking about this now? 1. It isn’t relevant anymore. 2. The scum players weren’t known in advance unless I missed it so the possibility of this being a 2 scum game was still out there.

Given the situation of the game. As scum I’d have completely claimed a Pr with a guilty in lylo. It’s not naive to think others would also.

[Chumba]

What part of we didn’t know the setup do you not get?

What part of I moved passed it and it didn’t really factor into anything do you not get?

There’s literally no point in discussing cause it didn’t impact the game at all

[Chumba]

Ok