Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Shaziro]

Hi!

VOTE: Kokichi
Anime is bad, your posting is even worse, this wagon is good. As for who should be World Congress leader thingamajig, I think I'm happy with Elbirn, if only because I don't think anyone who actually wants the power should get it and it seems like his self vote was a joke that accidentally became permanent. Not sure though, and the fact that the votes -stay- has me a bit wary to drop it like it's hot, y'know?

[Shaziro]

Y'all honestly have no idea how good it feels to be in a game that I can keep checking on and actually see updates in. That said, ActionDan, mind explaining that one, or is it just rvs voting?

[Shaziro]

Careful about reading into what you think are implications, Titus, remember Adventure Mafia!

[Shaziro]

I’m asking for an explanation of a blank vote. I don’t see how that’s a waste of space, and I think it’s kinda silly you didn’t bother to comment on anyone else goofing around this early into the game but -do- complain that a post in which I actually ask a question is pointless.

In other words, find something else to complain about and don’t project.

[Shaziro]

I would like to propose an embassy with Chara’s chill nation. Really though what is the -scum- motivation for responding to posts in a big wall on page 2? What discussion was it distracting from? Saying “that doesn’t explicitly benefit town therefore scummy” is dumb at best and actually scummy at worst.

[Shaziro]

It’s got no mechanical effecti in this mafia game so far as I’m aware.

[Shaziro]

Those who specifically want power probably shouldn't get it. In this case, that applies to world congress. I actually kind of like that Titus is being open about not thinking it's a great idea for her to have it, and her reasoning for why not is good. That said, do we really think that the World Congress person needs to be particularly mechanically minded in order to do well? If the list is posted, and we all agree on what we think would be best for town to have in, it doesn't really matter does it? So long as we make somebody we can trust to do as the majority desires, we know we don't have to worry about delegates being wasted and can just yea up the things that go in...right? Am I missing something horribly here?

[Shaziro]

Once a player has committed their delegate(s) to a Host or Resolution vote, they cannot change their delegate votes for the rest of the day/delegate voting cycle! Players can split up their delegate votes across multiple posts if they have more than 1 delegate, but each of their delegates can only be cast once, and once cast, they cannot be changed. Vote wisely!

[Shaziro]

I'd be more comfortable with Titus than Dan, I think, but not particularly comfortable with either.

[Shaziro]

Those who specifically want power probably shouldn't get it. In this case, that applies to world congress. I actually kind of like that Titus is being open about not thinking it's a great idea for her to have it, and her reasoning for why not is good. That said, do we really think that the World Congress person needs to be particularly mechanically minded in order to do well? If the list is posted, and we all agree on what we think would be best for town to have in, it doesn't really matter does it? So long as we make somebody we can trust to do as the majority desires, we know we don't have to worry about delegates being wasted and can just yea up the things that go in...right? Am I missing something horribly here?

im voting for the towniest who comes off as capable as making a good decision. we dont kno what the council powers are so scum may have wiggle room to argue for shitty powers. in addition the ability to reach a consensus by the players on best power may not b so cut and dry so im taking that into account when voting someone

I think that saying you want to be WC leader is inherently slightly scummy. If you're town, you should want either your biggest townread or yourself as the one with it, not just yourself.

[Shaziro]

Titus' whole "This post is useless so get it out of here" thing is almost definitely because of last Civilization Mafia and is NAI.

[Shaziro]

Creature is notably quiet.

[Shaziro]

or the record, what i can actually see is Almost posting town Almost things. that doesn't really translate to him being town. ;>
but he does want to be townread, and that's interesting to me.

Waddaaa...?? You asked me to show you I was Town. OF COURSE I wanted to be TR'd by YOU, and from this player list you're about the only one who can actually see town me in that post (well, maybe Titus will.. maybe not, but nobody else will).

I suck at reading you.

Who wants to test something?

hit me

I am also willing to test things

[Shaziro]

ActionDan and Titus, thoughts on Ranmaru?

[Shaziro]

Question stands.

[Shaziro]

I'm heading to bed soonish. I'd like an answer from Titus and ActionDan when I wake up, and am willing to trade Spices and Silk for them. Pls accept trade agreement TIA.

[Shaziro]

Ranmaru, if Chara is your towniest not-yourself read, would you be interested in having them be World Congress Leader?

[Shaziro]

I could go for a Chara WCL.

[Shaziro]

Oh also VOTE: Creature

[Shaziro]

Consider that Creature’s nation only skips out on UN council meetings when they are up to terrorism, to put it in your own terms. Also maybe choose a different nickname for Kokichi.

[Shaziro]

TBH Creature I would rather you play uncomfortably with the wagon on you. It gave me plenty of things to call you out on in that newbie game, and the only reason I kept backing down on you was just that, I was new. I'm more than happy to catch you as scum and then latch on like a mad dog this game~!

[Shaziro]

I'm disappointed that Titus kind of responded to my question but AD hasn't been around to do so.

[Shaziro]

Cool beans, at least we have a conftown. It’s fine Brass, gambits and whatnot go wrong sometimes, been there and done that.

Nero I also said that I could do Chara as host but have not voted there. When you can’t move your vote there is no good reason to drop it this early when there is plenty of time to suss out who would be a good choice and who would be a bad choice.

[Shaziro]

I am honestly not sure how I didn't realize that to be the objectively correct choice.

HEAL: :Brass for Host

Oh also, you didn't respond to my point and I'm like 99% sure that's because it's a good point and you don't want to have to justify why you're unhappy with Ranmaru but fine with me doing the same thing. When you mix a bit of hypocrisy and a bit of that feeling of being buddied earlier with posts like:

Shaz is cool. I'd help him clear a barbarian encampment.

And you get a heaping helping of VOTE: Nero Cain

[Shaziro]

you don't want to have to justify why you're unhappy with Ranmaru but fine with me doing the same thing.

ummmm I saw your point and moved on.

Not good enough, sorry.

Anyone who has not voted for a World Congress host needs to be voting Brass, as they are modconfirmed town. Do the damn thing. You literally -can't- have a stronger townread.

[Shaziro]

u do realize that I'm not even voting Ran right? At the least you are wrong, at the most you are sheeping scum.

Because you have to be -voting- somebody for bad reasons, rather than throwing shade and being inconsistent in your reasoning for that kind of thing, in order to be scum? I don't think so, I doubt anyone thinks so, even you. This honestly smacks of scum who feels they tried to be very careful with their push, throwing shade and suggesting a vote should be cast without casting their own, and is annoyed that they got called out for it because they don't think they did anything worth being caught. If I'm wrong, prove it.

[Shaziro]

What did I miss?

You're following your scum meta to a T and everyone is aware of it, Brass is conftown by mod, Nero is scummy imo, and you have 20 pages to read. Go fill in the gaps.

[Shaziro]

Let me read on Klazam. I want Titus as second highest and Brass as highest for WC, 100%. Tell me where to vote to make that happen, I'll do it. Now, a short rant.

How in the fuck did you join in 2011 and yet have no idea that AI means Alignment Indicative and also not know not to go and freakin' throw out a vote you -can't move- on somebody based on what I think you said was like 4 pages of reading, out of a damn 20-something page game. Jesus fuck I hate it when people don't even -skim- the game to catch up before making big calls, AAAAAAAAAGH.

In non-rant news, I still want to hear from ActionDan, and also A50 is 100% scum in my mind if Klazam flips scum, based on the way he just tried to distract from the suddenly building wagon on Klazam with some super weak sauce. Yeah, it was a shitty dumb thing to do that scum -could- have motivation to do, but a vote on pidgey might as well be a non-vote at this juncture, and A50 should know that. Gross.

[Shaziro]

No I meant my heal vote but I'm a dumb man and forgot I already put it on you. The good news is, it's on the right person! Past me wasn't as dumb as current me, somehow!

[Shaziro]

I can’t decide if Varsoon’s recent contributions feel more like town trying to analyze, or scum that has at minimum a pretty good idea that it is multiball and is trying to communicate to the other team.

Thoughts from my townread friends?

[Shaziro]

Chara wins the mirror tell town cred. He specifically brought up that scum’s best chance is to have only one team go for brass. This could easily be implication as to which team should do the thing. I just am not sure how realistic that is, the only multiball game I’ve been in where I wasn’t scum I don’t have a very good recollection of.

Maybe I’m confbiased, does A50 insisting on the dumb riddle thing smack of trying to get people to accept a fake claim because he put it to some weird riddle? The idea being that “oh if he put this much effort it is clearly a real claim” would get him a mostly free ride? I don’t tend to see town who drop hidden info become so insistent that people find it.

P-edit: didn’t think about it that way, Joey. Townread friends who aren’t Chara?

[Shaziro]

I can’t decide if Varsoon’s recent contributions feel more like town trying to analyze, or scum that has at minimum a pretty good idea that it is multiball and is trying to communicate to the other team.

Thoughts from my townread friends?

Oh, lol, if I wanted to communicate to the other scumteam, I wouldn't be subtle, I'd just be like:

Red team, don't kill the IC--we're taking care of that.

And this could 100% be you taking the chance to communicate “as a joke”. Gross. If you’re town this is at best being purposefully antagonistic towards my ability to read you, and anti-town.

[Shaziro]

chara do u tr or sr me

^Then

[Shaziro]

Hrmmm...Creature, Varsoon, Almost50. If they are all scum, there is undoubtably a team in there somewhere. Guess I'll look for some associatives.

[Shaziro]

To explain, Ranmaru, I think all of them are scummy on their own. In trying to find strange interactions between them, I can narrow down which one I think will give me the most information if they flip, and then I will know where I want my vote. Do you disagree that a person who has a potential association with 4 people is worth more to lynch than a person with no potential associations, assuming both are scummy in and of themselves?

[Shaziro]

Well you've got my scumreads, my biggest townreads right now are Brass, Chara, yourself, Titus, Pidgey. Honestly I was kind of hoping to see who responded to me asking for the opinions of my townreads, just to see who thought they were being townread by me. Would've been interesting, I think. -Still- waiting for a response from ActionDan, but I'm not sure how you feel he's towny tbh.

[Shaziro]

Since my post seems to have been lost to the internet ether. Kokichi is both a scumlean for me and in my view, a bit of a wild card. Even if he was townlean from me, I don't want someone who is as unpredictable as I have seen him be.

Now I'm glad you'll likely be N1'd. I've caught you when you were obvious scum before. Do you find my game different than the one you replaced out of when I caught you as scum?

Wooooow way to be a massive dick! He had work you asshole, and that was stated there I believe.

+1, This guy cannot be a leader.

How does being a jerk make somebody a bad WC Host?

[Shaziro]

Why am I scum suddenly? Odd coming from you specifically.

@brass - where are you going with this? I don't see how civs would be AI so I didn't pay attention to people softing their civs.

Arguable, a person's civ could help determine their role, and a role could help determine their alignment. I do think it's a bit early in the game to be outing softs though.

[Shaziro]

Catching up now after yesterday having been my D&D night. Kokichi isn't getting WC Host, ideally. Not sure how I feel about Titus having it, but it's really a choice between her and Elbirn, soooo. Yeah. No Kokichi pls. I can see Klazam and Almost being scum together, Klazam's post on why he's townreading Almost came off to me as trying to make absolutely sure that the townread on his scum partner was justified in the minds of town, to avoid it biting him in the ass later.

Creature is obviously scum.Creature's scum meta is 100% clear, and this is it. Creature needs to go. Waiting won't give us any associatives, he isn't going to -say- anything or -do- anything. He's just going to sit around and prodge in thread, and then at night if he has a scum PR he'll use it. It is infinitely more beneficial to town to lynch Creature. I'm not sure where the wagons are at for lynch votes or I'd have thrown mine on Creature, but I want to make sure we've got WC sorted before a lynch.

[Shaziro]

i agree somewhat, that the Creature lynch is not as informative as it could be. it's like lynching a cop guilty. i don't think anyone would be arguing for leaving a guilty alive. perhaps it's different for players like Titus who don't want to rely on meta or players who just don't know him.
i am reminded of the "town winrates go down when scum is lynched day 1" theory. it's interesting.

would still rather lynch essentially confirmed scum. seeing a scum role would be useful to tell us about the setup and remove a night factor. i've waited to lynch scum Creature before on the insistence of other players and it didn't really help anything because he doesn't post.
i guess leaving him alive would be fine if a vig shoots him.

posts like this are the reason I townread Chara so goddamn hard. We have the -exact- same thought process for this.

[Shaziro]

Creature is notably quiet.

To be fair, I was the first to point out that Creature was lurking, under the assumption that most people would know that is a guarantee that he is scum.

For anyone who is questioning the whole "Creature is low content therefore lynch" thing? Do a meta dive of him for like. 3 games of Creature scum and 3 of Creature town. Creature goes silent when scum. It's just how the Creature do. I pointed this out in my very first game on this site, and I was 100% correct, Creature was scum. He did exactly as he's done here and popped in to make a few posts, enough to have people go "Hey give Creature a chance to be more active guyz!", and then -vanishes- until the heat comes back on.

[Shaziro]

Well ActionDan is producing super little content and I gave up on the hope that he'd answer my question long ago, but I am not fond of him being super low content and not answering my question the point of which was that Ranmaru did almost exactly the same thing as Gamma Emerald but in multiple posts rather than one. He didn't say anything to Ranmaru and whatnot.

Also, let's ban crabs not silk.

P-edit: Embargoing Koichi isn't a scumclaim, it's Titus tunneling and she needs to stop. If she doesn't, then it's more likely scum!Titus

[Shaziro]

If it weren't a bastard role I'd suggest that Koki might be a jester at this rate. Fuck's sake.

Side note: What are the odds that, for balance's sake, there aren't really any resolutions that are explicitly pro-town or pro-scum, and they all have boons or banes for both factions? It would make much more sense from a game design perspective, in order to keep the mechanic from becoming too imbalanced. For instance, banning a particular luxury might turn off both a Scum role -and- a Town role, or maybe even multiple of one or the other depending on where power sits. I think looking at this from a "THIS IS EXPLICITLY PRO OR ANTI TOWN" perspective is wrong, and hazardous.

[Shaziro]

Also @ Everyone, what is this three choices nonsense? Host gets a choice. Secondary host gets a choice. Stopit.

Something something ranked preferences were requested or something like that. Idk

Can somebody address my point about the WC I was really proud of that.

[Shaziro]

Can somebody address my point about the WC I was really proud of that.

Side note: What are the odds that, for balance's sake, there aren't really any resolutions that are explicitly pro-town or pro-scum, and they all have boons or banes for both factions? It would make much more sense from a game design perspective, in order to keep the mechanic from becoming too imbalanced. For instance, banning a particular luxury might turn off both a Scum role -and- a Town role, or maybe even multiple of one or the other depending on where power sits. I think looking at this from a "THIS IS EXPLICITLY PRO OR ANTI TOWN" perspective is wrong, and hazardous.

I'm assuming this is what you meant?
Because it's kinda like...Yeah, sure. Bit obvious.

You say that, but this whole time people have been sat there saying that they wanted to make sure that whatever we chose to put forward wasn't something pro-scum. Like that's a thing that the resolutions would explicitly be.

[Shaziro]

HEAL: Ban silk

Reading that exact phrasing, it makes me think the mafia have a roleblocker, also called a prostitute sometimes. Maybe my mind is in the gutter, fuck if I know. I'm fine with banning this.

@Nero: Sorry for not seeing one small line of text that refers to the idea of there possibly being a resolution that is good for both scum and town or bad for both scum in town. My point, however, was that -all- the resolutions (or at least the vast majority) are a double-edged sword. For instance, I fully expect that banning silk will also negatively affect a town civ. That said, I think that since Town currently have the numbers, it is still better for us to do this if my assumption on what Silk Ban does is correct. Sue me. (Or just keep saying you scumread me, keep being wrong, etc etc. I'm really not interested in Alisae'ing this out with you if you -are- town, and letting a scumciv take the win.)

[Shaziro]

[Congressional Peace-keeping ~ brassherald] - The world is full of unforeseen threats. Assign delegates supporting or opposing a player in need of Congressional peace-keeping armies in their nation. A player may not assign delegates to themselves.

This resolution may not be enacted consecutively

.

maybe we shouldn't use it today?

We should.

^ We should, but we should try to find some -other- way of protecting our conftown tomorrow. If that be via role, the person -with- that role shouldn't say shit about it, just do it.

[Shaziro]

My line of thinking is that night 1 is the best night to have confirmed protection in the game unless ya'll think this game has no protection roles lol

...So the scum can immediately off the protective role and move on? This is really bad thinking, and definitely anti-town.

[Shaziro]

Do you disagree with my interpretation of the wording, Elbirn?

[Shaziro]

Actually I have a quick thought that I'd like to float and then everyone can shit down my throat for it

Do we think roles are at all related to civs, and if not is there any harm in claiming our civs? Like, how in hell is Brazil an innocent child?

I don't think anyone should respond for this, because it sounds awfully rolefishy. You realize that most anyone who says "Well yes, I think roles -are- related to civs" implicitly gives away that their role is related to their civ, yes? That means that A: They have some kind of PR and therefore know or B: They are a VT and their civ is for some reason just implicitly VT. It's a bad idea, it gives scum information.

[Shaziro]

In fact I think the one person who -could- respond without issue is Brass, who is already outed. So brass did a good.

[Shaziro]

Shaziro, do you play Town of Salem?

I did very briefly, yes.

@Elbirn- Referring to silk being in "Inappropriate and undesirable" situations is what made me think that it was related to sexual scandals. I can't think of any other case where silk is related to inappropriate and undesirable situations, and that is a reach for a connection I agree. But I know that Mafia Roleblockers are sometimes called "Prositutes" or "Escourts" or "Courtesans".

[Shaziro]

You'll only get disagreement when the thing comes up and it turns out "Oh no the delegates messed up their description of the things, and we actually -don't- want this!" or, when there's a lot of arguing over who should go up as delegate.

Cooperation early will prevent confusion now. It's our best strategy, given scum -want- us confused.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Creature

I think this is the best wagon today.

[Shaziro]

Then you should've been paying more attention tbh.

[Shaziro]

Honestly I think you were probably too busy bickering with Titus at the time.

[Shaziro]

Going to be less frequent. Grandfather in hospital. I’m sure you people are lovely and all but I have priorities.

[Shaziro]

Like Elbirn said, this isn't the first time Nero has said "I know I'm being a hypocrite but won't change it and you're scummy if you pull me up on it" in this game. It's pretty shitty. Stop doing that or eat some rope tomorrow, imo.

[Shaziro]

Also, good news, my grandfather's blood pressure is up, and while not where we want it, it's better. Kidneys aren't doing well, but the doctor is hoping that'll be reparable. I'm back home for tonight, though I will still be going back tomorrow. I'll try to pop in when I can though.

[Shaziro]

Like Elbirn said, this isn't the first time Nero has said "I know I'm being a hypocrite but won't change it and you're scummy if you pull me up on it" in this game. It's pretty shitty. Stop doing that or eat some rope tomorrow, imo.

But he didn't say it's scummy to call him out on it, and either way it's not even alignment indicative, it's just him being a bit of a dick. Why do you threaten him with the lynchee-lynchee?

Calling it "Weak" or saying "don't bother" implies, at least to me, that only scum would do the thing because they're grabbing at straws to call town scum. I've got a pretty firm record of finding hypocrisy scummy, and I've also been right about it plenty of times. Ergo, he's being hypocritical, and that is scummy.

[Shaziro]

Nero is looking for people to call him scum for that, so he can turn around and say that they're scum for calling him scum. It's dumb.

[Shaziro]

yeah ok
dont blame me if this flips town
VOTE: creature

ME NO LIKE THIS POST

Kok, Idgaf if you want me to be vigged. at least im not being antitown like nero.

End of day scumreads if i do get vigged:

Gamma, Nero, Kok (maybe), dunk

Strange that you assume you will be a vig target rather than a night kill

[Shaziro]

Why don’t people let the person a statement is directed at respond?

[Shaziro]

Like, fucking hell. I was hoping to get a read off a response to that.

[Shaziro]

Like, fucking hell. I was hoping to get a read off a response to that.

What exact response were you expecting? I literally said that before the post. This whole sequence looks forced as hell. Welcome to my nullscum pile.

A "I meant to say this but said vig instead" response would be scummy to me. A "Koki said to vig me, I was referring to that" would be null. It was potential information.

V/LA the next few days, at least until Thursday. Funeral.

[Shaziro]

Fucking called it on Varsoon, he was trying to communicate to the other scum team. Also, we know there was a Domination and a Science mafia, and that Boudica was spreading a religion, so I am fairly sure there is a Religion victory mafia that likely wins when something like half of the living players are their religion or something. If you get religiously converted and are notified, announce it for god's sake...no pun intended.

[Shaziro]

The only other one is time, when the game hits a set number of turns it ends and the civ with the most points wins.

[Shaziro]

My best bet is that there is a Town religion spreader, a Mafia religion spreader who has no win condition involved, and then a Mafia religion spreader who -does- have a win condition for their team involved, or possibly a team of like 2. That would mean that they could spread equally fast to the other two, in fact, and since the other two couldn't coordinate it would be in favor of the two who could. Makes their objective to find and kill the other religion spreaders while still spreading their religion, makes for an interesting mechanic, and is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to see in a Civilization Mafia theme game.

ALSO: Fuck everyone who said I was reaching when I made comparisons to the Prostitute role and the banning silk, not only did the fucking flavor for that ban being enacted mention sex workers, but CREATURE WAS A MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER WHICH IS ALSO CALLED A PROSTITUTE. 10/10 predictions, let's go!

[Shaziro]

VOTE: Almost50 What're the odds I went 4/4? I vote we find out.

[Shaziro]

naw, Shaz is too busy active lurking to produce reads.

I kinda agree. I think Gamma is the scum that was sheeping said bad logic.

My grandfather was sick in the hospital and then died, I am now in another state so I can attend his funeral. Piss off with your “active lurking” bullshit. I don’t care if you’re scum just looking for an easy accusation to throw, that’s astoundingly low, and entirely inaccurate at that. Read my V/LA tag and my iso.

[Shaziro]

I’m particopating as best I can in between consoling family, preparing for a funeral, and all of the other things associated with the death of family. I also -have- been scumhunting, including being the first person to point out Creature following his scum meta. -You- are the one attempting to discredit. A50 today, Nero tomorrow, we win, screw Nero for stooping this damn low.

I want brass as runner up and our collective towniest read as leader today, just because there is the potential for brass to be NKed tonight without the sure protection of a resolution. That said, Creature was a scum role blocker which makes me think he was the counter to a town protective, so I don’t think Brass is a sure death either. Runner up seems fine. I think Chara might be a good choice for top, or maybe Titus again and just flip the two.

[Shaziro]

Also side note. Religious victory wasn’t a thing in Gods and Kings, and it led to culture in vanilla I think. So that does lend credence to the potential third mafia team of culture mafia.

[Shaziro]

So remember when I said that if there is a culture team they probably have to spread religion? A50 could literally just be that. Having a long elaborate way of saying “I’m China and spread Taoism” means nothing wrt alignment, and if he is China...why didn’t he say anything about the way banning silk affected him? I would assume China would be the one to be affected by that luxury ban the most, and the ban confirmation post suggested the same. Does making a big “riddle” crumb really mean he -is- China? All in all, I don’t think having that crumb changes a thing.

Pedit: fuck off Nero. Honestly and truly.

Titus, I changed my mind on banning silk later on and gave my reasoning, re-read my iso.

[Shaziro]

My best bet is that there is a Town religion spreader, a Mafia religion spreader who has no win condition involved, and then a Mafia religion spreader who -does- have a win condition for their team involved, or possibly a team of like 2. That would mean that they could spread equally fast to the other two, in fact, and since the other two couldn't coordinate it would be in favor of the two who could. Makes their objective to find and kill the other religion spreaders while still spreading their religion, makes for an interesting mechanic, and is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to see in a Civilization Mafia theme game.

ALSO: Fuck everyone who said I was reaching when I made comparisons to the Prostitute role and the banning silk, not only did the fucking flavor for that ban being enacted mention sex workers, but CREATURE WAS A MAFIA ROLEBLOCKER WHICH IS ALSO CALLED A PROSTITUTE. 10/10 predictions, let's go!

Note the first bit of this, brass. I definitely think one scum team spreads religion but -doesn’t- win based on it, because it makes it harder for the other scum team who does to win by it.

[Shaziro]

I think flavor spec is fairly useful in a game that has this much flavor involvement in the mechanics. It’s why I love themes and am not a fan of normals, I can get into the weird flavor and mechanics.

[Shaziro]

Stacking all of our extra votes on You is the reason making you host is a bad idea Brass. We are better off spreading them between high townreads so scum can’t eliminate them in a single NK

[Shaziro]

So which one is our town religion spreader? Pidgey or A50? I think it’s obv

[Shaziro]

Fair question, what do you spread and who did you spread it to?

[Shaziro]

Oh, I’m guessing that means “I spread to Nero.”

P-edit: read my fucking iso, Nero. Christ’s sake I can’t wait for you to flip

[Shaziro]

I think -scum- have a religious win con, and town religion spread just blocks scum spread to that slot. It’s a barrier. Scum would, of course, want to do exactly what A50 is doing by claiming they have no win con it is just a fruit vendor, but a town religion spreader would probably see it that way legitimately, so that is NAI

[Shaziro]

Brass, read my theorizing. Dunker was, in my mind, the scum religion spreader that wasn’t on a religion spreading wincon. -Read- my post, please.

[Shaziro]

When I get to my computer I will make a more well explained point I guess because this is almost as annoying as Nero’s bullshit, it just isn’t malicious like his.

[Shaziro]

There could easily be a third scum team of 2

Pagan does -not- mean no religion.

[Shaziro]

I think I want Titus as leader and brass as runner up

[Shaziro]

Ok so two things, now that I've got a little time at a computer.

First: Brass should be Runner Up, not Leader. He is an innocent child, so I highly suspect that scum are gunning for him. Hell, Varsoon even tried to communicate to the redscum and coordinate how to attack him. There is a -chance- he will not be killed, which is why he's safe as a runner up, but we should put the bonus delegates on somebody else we know is town, to not give scum one prime target to take away a lot of what town has going for it. If he is the sole container of all our bonus delegates -and- is the IC, scum are just going to nuke him from orbit and we lose all of it. Sure, one could argue we might have a protective. We don't -know- that though, and therefore shouldn't act as if we do know that.

Second: I think there is a Culture or Religious victory Mafia team. I think they likely have two people, one or both of whom can convert people to their religion. I think that once a player is converted to a religion, that religion sticks. Therefore, I think that there is a Town religion spreader, and a religion spreader on an opposing scum team. This would make it so the team with the Religion win con would be blocked by the Town and Scum-but-not-on-their-team religion spreader...spreading their religions. The other two religion spreaders WOULD NOT HAVE A WIN CON. For them, it would just be a fruit vendor that also stops that person from being converted to any other religion. THE ONLY ONE WITH THE CONVERSION WIN CON WOULD BE CULTURE/RELIGION SCUM. Therefore, I think Dunker flipping as Domination Mafia religon spreader means that the Mafia-but-not-their-team religion spreader is dead. I think that one of either Almost50 or Pidgey (at least one) is scum religion spreader who -does- have a religious wincon. I also think almost50 is scum. Therefore, I think Almost50 is Culture/Religion Mafia religion spreader. I don't know how to make that more clear. Town and Domination Mafia religion spreaders served, effectively, as unaware blockades to Culture/Religion Mafia, who were -aware- of their religion spread wincon.

Unless I misunderstand what constitutes a Bastard game, scum can have a wincon that is not known to everyone, but -IS- known to them, and the game will not be bastard.

[Shaziro]

As in only while they're host?

[Shaziro]

Oh. Well fuck it yeah make Brass host, sorry folks. I thought it was just the mod confirming that only the host got any extra delegates at all.

ALSO: Paganism in Civ V refers to a city with no majority religion. #ThingsILearnedOnTheCivVWiki

[Shaziro]

The resolution info was given on Day end, why are you lying about your first reason?

[Shaziro]

Going to the funeral right now, and then will be driving home. More tonight, but I’d like an explanation of your vote Chara.

[Shaziro]

I was aggressive with Gamma lying about his reasoning because it seemed like a blatant lie based on the fact that we had all the information I would assume anyone could get who wasn’t directly affected by the resolutions in the resolution enactment post. I think that’s a dumb reason to scumread me but do what you wanna do I guess. Don’t be reluctant to wagon me just because I am dealing with real life things, that’s just as dumb as being eager to wagon me for it. Just play the game normally.

Stop host voting brass at this point IMO, save them for whoever you want as runner up. Chara and Titus are currently my top townreads outside of brass and myself, I’d like one of them as runner up.

[Shaziro]

HEAL: Titus x2

[Shaziro]

Ok, I am home post-funeral. I'll be trying to catch up and more thoroughly read the thread. I'm not gonna lie, I thought Maestro saying the votes would be up in X amount of time was a "you have this long to vote for WCL" not a "I'm reserving this spot for a VC", hence my sudden vote on Titus. I can support a Joey runner up, I think, but I would still prefer Titus or Chara.

[Shaziro]

I'll explain my Titus townread, in return you explain your scumread on me. All I've seen as far as I'm aware is that I called Gamma a liar. If you can't understand why being aggressive and direct with my question makes sense for me after being more subtle and indirect got no less than 3 other people to pile in and respond -for- the person, denying me the ability to get a damn read on them, I don't know what to tell you.

Titus is playing -exactly- to how I've seen her play town, Moon logic without an attempt to explain it to anyone else. I think her paranoia of me is also very similar to her paranoia of me in Adventure Mafia, complete with really bizarre and incorrect assumptions about what I am. Add to that the fact that her tone pings incredibly honest and genuine, and her fighting with Kokichi rings more of tunneltown Titus than scum latching on to a baseless accusation, I'm pretty sure she's town. I -definitely- want her as one of our World Congress people, along with Brass, because she did it 100% pro-town and right last time, and I trust her to do it again. Even if she -is- somehow scum, in the WC at least, she is leashed to town's needs.

[Shaziro]

Yeah Varsoon was -super- scummy IMO. The whole "fake" communicating thing was -really- obviously purposeful communication that he was trying to play off as taunting or whatever. The fact that people think he -wasn't- scummy is incredible to me.

I think Gamma is probably a town JOAT like he said, tbh. I don't really see scum lying about that. I admit I'm a bit biased by the "I never claimed I -was- a watcher, I claimed I -watched-." thing. That's something I don't think scum would risk, for fear that town would see it as them trying to stretch their claim.

If Joey ends up as runner-up, I think I'm ok with him too. Chara, I'm still waiting to hear your reasons for suddenly thinking I'm super strong scum. Nero, the only thing I haven't done in this game which isn't explained by V/LA is a readslist, and I can whip up one of those I guess, but I really don't have any particularly strong reads save for being 100% sure of brass and myself as town, very confident in Titus and Chara town (in that order.), and being pretty much positive you're a scumfuck who stooped real fucking low and then realized he'd gone too far, which would be why you stepped off. I appreciate that you at least realized when it was time to step off. Almost has been looking towny-er, but he's really just brought himself from "I think you're scum" to "I think you're null and really need to sort your ass". My strongest scumreads were Creature, Varsoon, and A50, so you can see why I'm a bit tossed about. Might read through again, this time looking for associations with our flipped scum.

VOTE: Nero Because I think my vote is still on A50

[Shaziro]

I am now 100% Confident that one of A50, Pidgey, and Marshy is scum.

[Shaziro]

Why are you assuming 2 scum teams of 3 rather than 3 teams of 2?

[Shaziro]

Would world wonders be optimal, assuming it is a boon to every civ? We have downed 3 scum, putting town squarely in the lead, which would make our net benefit greater than theirs from such a thing. I think ban gold recognize wonders is the best route.

[Shaziro]

Natural wonders is a bad idea if there is a culture mafia, it explicitly states that it is good for culture.

[Shaziro]

Anything that gives a boon to every civ is wildly in towns favor atm anyhow. Even one that gave 50/50 town scum books previously is still wildly favorable for town now.

[Shaziro]

See my previous post for my thoughts on how the World Congress is designed.

[Shaziro]

Wish you’d given it more time for discussion, but given that you’re conftown and Joey is a decent townread for me I’m not super concerned.

[Shaziro]

If Gamma has a protective, he should not announce it. Stop asking him to announce it, Joey. Just stop.

[Shaziro]

I believe Gamma's claim and think he's a garbage-tier lynch for today. People should definitely stop telling him to out whether or not he has a protective and who he would be targeting if he is, that is literally just giving scum information. Like, fucking hell, "Oh they'll only kill Gamma that's no big deal" if they don't know if he's a protective or not, they might target somebody he is protecting and -nobody- would die, how do you miss that simple fucking logic? Christ alive.

I'm ok with Ranmaru...-kinda-. I'm not big on the idea of lynching for him being away from game like I was for Creature, because so far as I'm aware it's not his thing. I'm happy with lynching Kokichi though, to be honest, because the more I read of their stuff, the more I regret ever removing my vote from them at the start of the game. Almost50 I am less confident about now.

VOTE: Kokichi I'll set this here for now I guess.

[Shaziro]

Fucking hell, Joey, what other means do you mean to use to protect the IC? If gamma is a protective, he's going to protect the IC, but it's not like there's any chance of overlap unless you magically know of some method of protecting brass that I don't. Him claiming protective does -nothing- pro town. Stop demanding it.

[Shaziro]

The "soft guilty" is bad and you should feel bad for using it.

I wasn't suggesting you softed a protective, I was suggesting you -didn't- know of some method and were pulling things out of your ass, and I'm still suggesting that.

[Shaziro]

First off, saying "No offense" after something doesn't make it less offensive. Second off, you're the one who can't understand that if he is a protective he should just protect, and if he isn't, I don't see any other damn protective claims or options around here so it's not like him claiming would prevent somebody else from protecting and spare us a wasted protective. Furthermore, if there -is- a protection shot wasted on double protecting Brass...so the fuck what? It still gets our IC protected and we are -well- ahead of scum atm. It's not a big deal, and letting scum know "I'M A PROTECTIVE SHOOT ME SHOOT ME" is a stupid move.

Gamma, don't claim shit. Joey's town imo, but really really not getting this for some godforsaken reason.

[Shaziro]

If you don't want to play in the game, replace out. Quit the "I don't care if I'm lynched it means I don't have to play" shit.

[Shaziro]

Tell me about it. Somebody who is townreading kokichi, Explain that nonsense please? I’d be ok with a wagon on kiana but I’m more convinced of kokichi.

[Shaziro]

Good. Now you have a full day to think of a believable claim and reason as to why you used a watcher shot on the clear yesterday and not tonight.

You're poisoning the well against him now. Gross.

[Shaziro]

I agree!

[Shaziro]

Jesus fuck, I spend one day tidying up the house and sleeping in, catching up on rest. I come back to this.

First off, I fucking told you Gamma was better off not claiming and look at that he fucking was. Now everyone who pushed for him to claim should collectively feel bad.

If he -were- a religion spreader, the religion that is most closely tied to his civ would be Orthodoxy or Eastern Orthodoxy, I don't remember which it is called. That'd be the one you'd want to argue there. I look forward to seeing you desperately try to argue that and keep being wrong. Gamma is town.

Let's lynch Kokichi now for being scummy as fuck! ActionDan would be my second choice if I absolutely have to, but that's honestly mostly based in me asking a fairly simple question early on and getting no response time and time again, when I know the question was pointing out an inconsistency in their thinking. Hypocrisy is scummy and all.

[Shaziro]

Good. Now you have a full day to think of a believable claim and reason as to why you used a watcher shot on the clear yesterday and not tonight.

You're poisoning the well against him now. Gross.

Here's a direct quote which I can be bothered to get because it's recent. Beyond that, it's a mix of the seemingly purposeful spearing of attempts to get information, the constant insistence that they be World Congress leader, the attempts to powerlynch Gamma despite Gamma (at least to me) being obviously town, and their smug attitude towards votes on them which smacks of scum trying to convince town that voting them won't do anything so don't bother.

TL;DR they've been scummy as shit all game both in action and in my gutread on them, I'd be happy to see them flip.

[Shaziro]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Shaziro]

Ok, I think I support a massclaim now tbh, but I'll go ahead and claim anyhow because NKA may just be useful here.

I'm Japan, hence my first post in this game starting with a haiku, and I have Bushido. I'm a vig. I shot Dunker, and I shot Kokichi.

[Shaziro]

Good job fucking twat

Also this mean that scum only got 1 nk

Piss off with the insults, thanks in advance.

so there's no guilty.
why'd you shoot Kokichi?

it also means there's a missing kill from one of the scumteams. or they overlapped on Kokichi or Nero, but considering both of their positions i don't know how likely it is.

I explained my scumread on Kokichi, and it had become pretty clear that other folks weren't going to lynch there, so I shot my scumread. Other person I would've shot was Nero, but I realized my read on him was probably tainted by my disgust with his bullshit from earlier, so I let that one go.

[Shaziro]

The other NK last night was directed at me, Nero probably Jailkept me.

Shaziro, why didn't you vig Gamma, then?

Because firstly, I didn't think Gamma was scum, so why tf would I shoot him. Secondly, because the "soft guilty" on him was based on there being 3 deaths first night and Elbirn having -maybe- suggested he was going to weak bodyguard Gamma, but I knew that there were 3 kills because I had killed Dunker. So it was bullshit and I -kept telling you all that- but I wasn't about to claim then.

[Shaziro]

I accused you of lying because I was hoping to get, at worst, something NAI (which is what I got when other people answered -for- you).

[Shaziro]

HEAL: Brass x3

The main reason for suspicious was the "soft guilty" on Gamma because Elbirn said something about Gamma and then died, and was a weak bodyguard. I think that soft guilty was blown -way- the fuck out of proportion, and it looks a lot more like Elbirn died to scum NK when you realize that I'm the one who killed Dunker. The only other suspicion on Gamma being scum is that the commuter claim might be weird for setup balance, which I disagree with. I'm 90% on gamma town.

VOTE: Caesar

[Shaziro]

Are we all ignoring that Titus is blatantly ignoring that Gamma fullclaimed? She's saying he "softed protective"?

[Shaziro]

I think they're both some kind of boon to every civ. Consider that it is protection of NATURAL wonders, and recognition of WORLD wonders. Those're two different things in the game. I still think we should 100% do World Wonders though, because we have the numbers advantage.

[Shaziro]

I'm beginning to see Titus scum and I don't like that.

[Shaziro]

I think the idea that City States being denounced might make it so scum can communicate might be valid. If you think about it, interfering in the diplomacy of powerful civs -could- easily mean they interfere with Scum talking to one another, be it between teams or the one I think is more likely, during the day. It -could- also change the amount of votes we get daily, which is how it works in Civ V. Balance-wise, which seems more likely?

Also, Titus replace out is a shame, but it's whatever. I want to see the replacement's first few things before making a call on that slot.

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been AWOL, reading and catching up but it kinda feels like folks have been locked into their reads and unwilling to listen to changing information unless it can be used to reaffirm their thoughts. Gamma is town, this seems very clear to me, but marshy only recently opened his mind to changing that. The progression on that mind-opening feels weird to me, but that is what it is. Also, Caesar is at L-1, please don't throw another vote that way until we get a claim from the slot.

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been AWOL, reading and catching up but it kinda feels like folks have been locked into their reads and unwilling to listen to changing information unless it can be used to reaffirm their thoughts. Gamma is town, this seems very clear to me, but marshy only recently opened his mind to changing that. The progression on that mind-opening feels weird to me, but that is what it is. Also, Caesar is at L-1, please don't throw another vote that way until we get a claim from the slot.

I know you aren't talking to me in specific, but what changing information has there been for Caesar scum?

I was referring to reads on Gamma, largely, and Marshy's more specifically.


Titus, are you replacing out or not? If you are, it's kinda uncool to sit and keep ostensibly playing the game.

[Shaziro]

I'd be ok lynching OtM I think. The failure to fullclaim when it was specifically explained why -does- look super stally to me. I don't like the way he's catching up and ignoring advice/half reading things that are actually important...something seems off. We've got days, though, so I'm fine with holding my vote on Pine until he catches up. Come on Pine, I've -seen- your play be super good. Do me a proud.

[Shaziro]

You were given clarification as to why you should immediately fullclaim. You -responded- to that clarification, but your response was just more stalling. You should avoid trying to frame this as "I thought it was a joke!" when it's very clear you didn't, lying about that is a dead giveaway.

[Shaziro]

You were given clarification as to why you should immediately fullclaim. You -responded- to that clarification, but your response was just more stalling. You should avoid trying to frame this as "I thought it was a joke!" when it's very clear you didn't, lying about that is a dead giveaway.

Oh look.

Demonstrate Shaziro is full of shit. Then Shaziro jumps to being revisionist. Anyone who knows me knows I do not lie. I fucking can’t.

I am back to reading.

I literally didn't revise shit, I literally repeated myself. My first post about lynching you specifically says you failed to fullclaim despite it being explained why, this post is me saying you were given clarification as to why. This needs rope.

VOTE: OnTheMark

[Shaziro]

I'm staying on OTM. End of story.

[Shaziro]

If we get absolutely down to the wire, I can be convinced to go Kiana I guess. OTM is more scummy to me though.

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been away, got very busy. Tomorrow is D&D Night and I'll be mostly away from computer then too, but before and after I'll be here some. I didn't shoot last night, I'm out of shots. Didn't claim that yesterday in the hopes of drawing a scum NK, but I figure the information is more valuable to town now.

[Shaziro]

I can't be the only one getting loads of scum from OTM, can I?

[Shaziro]

VOTE: OnTheMark

I never said my vote on you was because of your predecessor. I actually townread Titus for quite a while, and my opinion on her only started to change towards the end. Furthermore, -you- have acted distinctly scummy. You are a better player than the kind of player that would "Just go ahead and read what my slot said before I claim anything". I'm also fairly sure that you've got a history of outright -refusing- to backread on replacing in, which makes it suspicious that you would do it now imo. So instead of trying to claim my reads are for reasons they aren't in order to discredit them, start acting town or start prepping for the dead thread so far as I'm concerned.

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been away, got very busy. Tomorrow is D&D Night and I'll be mostly away from computer then too, but before and after I'll be here some. I didn't shoot last night, I'm out of shots. Didn't claim that yesterday in the hopes of drawing a scum NK, but I figure the information is more valuable to town now.

And I will believe this when pigs fly.

You realize that if I was SK, then I would have just claimed away my ability to kill, and therefore cost myself the game. Because if I ever killed somebody else, town would immediately go "Oh, hey, he lied. Scum." and I'd get lynched. Do you really think an SK would hobble themselves like that, rather than just shooting whoever town suggested they shoot and trying to squeak by that way? Or are you just trying to shade me because you don't want another effectively confirmed town around? I think the latter is far more likely.

Unless, of course, you were disbelieving that Tuesdays are my D&D nights, in which case...I mean, you're wrong, and I've said in -many- games that Tuesdays are my D&D nights, but at least that's a little less unreasonable?

[Shaziro]

Sorry I've been away, got very busy. Tomorrow is D&D Night and I'll be mostly away from computer then too, but before and after I'll be here some. I didn't shoot last night, I'm out of shots. Didn't claim that yesterday in the hopes of drawing a scum NK, but I figure the information is more valuable to town now.

And I will believe this when pigs fly.

You realize that if I was SK, then I would have just claimed away my ability to kill, and therefore cost myself the game. Because if I ever killed somebody else, town would immediately go "Oh, hey, he lied. Scum." and I'd get lynched. Do you really think an SK would hobble themselves like that, rather than just shooting whoever town suggested they shoot and trying to squeak by that way? Or are you just trying to shade me because you don't want another effectively confirmed town around? I think the latter is far more likely.

Unless, of course, you were disbelieving that Tuesdays are my D&D nights, in which case...I mean, you're wrong, and I've said in -many- games that Tuesdays are my D&D nights, but at least that's a little less unreasonable?

No. Claiming vig as an SK is a gambit. I have seen many an SK win with that.

And no, there is such a thing as unlimited shot vigs in games.

You’re trying to paint me as unreasonable for suspecting you after you claimed unlimited shot vig and now that there are less kills that I am unreasonable when the egg is all over your face.

The facts are you lied in a game that quite easily could be broken by fucking mass claiming and looking over the kills as much as one kill shocked me you’re probably just an SK that targeted Almost50 because while it is a bad kill for scum it’s a great kill for an SK.

Ooh! Ooh! Point to where I claimed unlimited shot Vig! (Hint I didn't, you're making shit up to try and make me look bad. I explicitly just claimed Vig, and when people asked me about shots I said -nothing- because I didn't want scum to get the info)

[Shaziro]

Shaziro prob town. Bu i have no fkn clue but hes been scummy to me and seems to be setting me up for a lynch which i dont like

When did I try to set you up for a lynch? Was it while I was actively saying we should lynch OTM?

[Shaziro]

I'm not the one grasping at straws, you are. OTM is the lynch today.

HEAL: Joey x3

That should secure him as runner up, no?

[Shaziro]

He is a fucking liar it’s only a matter of when he goes down. Not if.

If y’all waste a mislynch on me rather than confirmed scum in Shaziro not my problem.

Tell me Shaziro why did you visit A50 last night? Tell the truth otherwise it’s going to be worse for you than it already is.

I gotta go to work but Shaziro visiting A50 is a fact that will become obvious on my flip assuming you all are crazy enough to mislynch the doctor.

I -didn't- visit A50 last night. You're bullshitting because you're cornered scum.

[Shaziro]

I think I know what OTM is doing with this lie, and if they are it's a -very- stupid gambit and they should try something different. As it is, OTM is 100% the lynch today. They're now claiming that I visited somebody when I didn't, and I do -not- want that bullshit fading into the aether with the rest of this discussion. They're the lynch.

Honestly, Chara, consider the fact that they specifically claimed to be some kind of master at emulating their town game as scum. Would that not mean that your "this is town because they're being bullheaded about something dumb" or whatnot is possibly being faked? I feel like stubbornness is -very- easy to fake.

[Shaziro]

That doesn't make sense. How does a doc know where shaziro visited?

I think they were either trying to claim that the doc claim was a fakeclaim. That, or they forgot their fakeclaim and tried to think up another one, in which case it's backfiring hilariously.

[Shaziro]

Ok so when we flip OTM and they flip scum, odds Chara is their partner trying real hard here? This logic is very bad, Chara.

[Shaziro]

I don't think Mark's scumgame is flawless. I am pointing out inconsistencies in your own logic.

[Shaziro]

Mark isn't claiming a result, pretty sure that was a taunt.

i'm sitting here trying to come up with something to say to Shaziro and i just can't find a way to explain. it's not about emulating his towngame, it's about making a decision that would get him lynched (Mark should know this), and if he's town he's just about immediately ruined the towncred of his own slot. the only two explanations are a botched attempt to fake town stubbornness or that he's town.
i guess thinking about it there is one hallmark of his towngame that's missing here but every reason i've seen for scum Mark is something that makes perfect sense to me from the mind of town Mark. :<

Alright let's talk about this. First off, saying "Why did you visit A50?" is 100% claiming to have a result. A taunt would be "Well you killed A50" or something along those lines. Claiming to know that somebody visited somebody else is claiming a result. This is 100% a botched attempt at faking town stubbornness. I've modded a game for Scum OTM, this is what their scum game looks like.

-OTM refused to claim despite most claims being out so they could look back and see what Titus claimed. They didn't want to make the wrong fakeclaim.

-OTM then proceeded to fakeclaim a watch result on me, then immediately realize that "Oh shit, I've claimed Doc not Watcher, fuuuuck" when gamma points out that this result is impossible for them to have unless they lied about their role or didn't fullclaim. So they throw out some half-assed "Well it's...uh...the only possible answer...because...scum wouldn't shoot a religion spreader and red is effectively an SK and only an SK would shoot a religion spreader". Ignoring the fact that the last two chunks there, Red is effectively an SK and only an SK would shoot A50, point towards A50 being a red shot.

-A reason that keeps coming up for OTM being town is "Titus wouldn't replace out as scum getting wagoned" but that is A: A bullshit reason, if somebody can't keep playing the game they should replace out, scum or town, and B: Doesn't negate the fact that Titus was scummy and now so is OTM.

You are defending OTM based on really bad logic and a sort of "Just trust me this looks like town OTM" when it -really- doesn't, and it's incredibly suspicious.

[Shaziro]

"Why did you visit A50?" is 100% claiming to have a result. A taunt would be "Well you killed A50" or something along those lines

i had to pause my reading of this post because it's just so ridiculous i don't know what to say back to you. i didn't realize you were the authority on what taunts look like.

i'll go look at the narrative of Mark botching their claim

that

badly but right now i just think you're ignoring their opinion that mafia wouldn't shoot in the religion spreaders.

If somebody says "No they're not a doc, I'm a doc!" that's a claim, not a taunt. If somebody says "I watched him visit A50" they're claiming, not taunting. Don't be pedantic, just accept that that is by no means a taunt, it's a claim of a result.

I did specifically point out the flaw in the logic of why scum couldn't have shot A50, you're just electing to ignore it apparently. OTM specifically said "Red is effectively an SK now" and then proceeded to say "Only an SK would shoot A50". Like, for real?

[Shaziro]

Also, why are we working under the assumption that the scumteams were 3 person each? Is it required for a mod to notify the game when a scum team has been completely eliminated? I don't think so. In which case, 1 kill last night could be 1 scum team remaining.

[Shaziro]

If somebody says "No they're not a doc, I'm a doc!" that's a claim, not a taunt. If somebody says "I watched him visit A50" they're claiming, not taunting. Don't be pedantic, just accept that that is by no means a taunt, it's a claim of a result.

i don't remember him saying he watched you do it.

Do you honestly expect me to believe that "Why did you visit X" and "I know you visited X" and "I saw you visit X" are any different in the context of this game? You are -really- stretching to hold on to a bad town read and it seriously reeks of scum defending scum.

[Shaziro]

OTM is the lynch today. 100%. I'm not moving my vote anywhere else save for a mod confirming of town.

[Shaziro]

OTM is my only vote today. They're the right vote. Depending on what scumteam they flip, I'd be looking into Chara after that.

[Shaziro]

Voting scum is inherently helpful, BuJaber.

[Shaziro]

I literally never claimed one shot vig, I have always claimed 2 shot. Mark is bullshitting even harder now. How long are y'all just going to sit and be fed the bullshit before we lynch Mark for being very obviously scum trying to get me lynched?

[Shaziro]

Mark is literally outright lying about what I claimed and you are now trying to convince them that their outright lie is wrong. They -know- it is wrong, they are -lying- because they want a -mislynch- because they are -scum-. How can I make that more clear?

P-edit:

Spoiler: Me right now

[Shaziro]

As a side note, can the world leaders go back to discussing suggestions with us? I remember that the natural wonders thing was very clearly "Everybody gets some kind of boon" to me, and there are more town than scum so that is inherently townsided. Why has that not been brought up? These suggestions are kinda lame IMO and that one seems very good to me.

[Shaziro]

Suggestions being resolutions, my "I Can't Believe I Just Woke Up At 2" brain forgot the word.

[Shaziro]

I laughed harder than I have laughed in at least a month at that bullshit attempt at finding something, -anything- that counted as me claiming one shot vig. That is such a shitty strawgrab it had me rolling. Mark is 100% the lynch today. Say what you want about their Mafia game, they are -not- this bad at the game. They can be bullheaded, yes, like in Mao Mafia in which they wouldn't listen to basic math when trying to point out that the role distribution was one of the mod lies...but they're not that dumb. Mark is better than that bullshit. Calling that anything other than a blatant scum lie is an insult to them. That's our lynch, people, pack it up.

[Shaziro]

Mark: It is indeed a silly kill. Yet, if you believe that is the case, why do you believe an SK would kill in a silly way, after claiming not to have any more shots, as a pro-claimed town vig? If Klazam showed the ability and desire to talk himself out of his situation, I'd consider what you are saying, but his lack of posting doesn't seem to lean towards that deduction. Also keep in mind that most of the kills have been players on the Creature wagon on Day 1.

Because Shaziro could lie about it much better than most. He could say “oh trying to live another day so scum didn’t see me as a threat” He’s already lied and had people about it.

As for me I am “lack of posting” as I am a hyperposter. Posting or lack thereof is NAI. I have posted for 24 hours straight before as scum and made far less and won as town.

It’s a matter of the quality of the post when someone does post.

I literally never lied. I never claimed one shot vig, you tried to claim I did and then when people questioned it gave a -really- reachy and garbage reason as to why. I specifically avoided answering questions about my shots because I didn't want to give scum information, but I never claimed to be unlimited shot vig. I claimed vig, no number of shots given. You know it, I know it, we both know you're trying awfully hard to hold on to the hope of getting me lynched because you know you won't get conftown brass lynched and I'm the next closest thing to conftown in the thread save for maybe gamma.

I'm like 90% on him town still, given that the only reason anyone had any suspicion on him (at the time at least) was a really reachy 'soft guilty' and he's been playing super pro town. I believe he's pretty universally townread? Hard to tell where people's townreads are at, save for Chara's on you which is stupidly unshakable despite the fact that you are 100% flipping scum.

[Shaziro]

Finished catching up. Losing my shit at the claim that I'm tunneling math for being suspected, and not because the logic is shit beyond reasoning and because of the constant stream of bull about things I've said. "YOU SAID THE WORD ONE ONCE, THEREFORE YOU WERE TRYING TO HINT AT BEING ONE SHOT!" bloody hell, are we -really- all going to assume OTM is this bad a player? They're caught scum trying to look convincing.

They're also now trying to force the idea that their claim for what is "optimal scumplay" is, in fact, optimal scumplay. So firstly, how does OTM have information that we don't have about scum, that they can claim with 100% certainty what is optimal and what isn't? (Hint: they're scum)

Look I'm going to play a game of magic fantasy land and pretend OTM isn't super obviously scum. OTM. Go look at the way you were at the end of Mao Mafia. Give that a good read over. You were being ridiculous and even then you were playing better and more logically -then-. In a -bastard game-. Once you've done that, come on back.

[Shaziro]

Because I'm far more sure of Mark as scum.

[Shaziro]

How about no?

Still haven’t caught up had car issues but this wagon is bullshit. Lead by scum to get rid of me so they can kill conf!town. It goes against what conf!town wants and is simply a smear campaign because I think Shaziro is the SK.

Or because you're incredibly scummy, your arguments are all absolutely garbage because you're desperate to not lose as scum, and you're not this bad a player typically.

[Shaziro]

Thor, literally read Mark's content, and the really shitty cases they are making in an attempt to get a mislynch. "YOU SAID ONE IN THAT POST, YOU WERE SOFT CLAIMING ONE SHOT". For fuck's sake, that's worse than the "soft-guilty" on Gamma was, and I had information that basically confirmed it to be bullshit the whole time it was bein' bandied about! Like, read the slot. Read my responses to the slot and my arguments that I've made many times for why they're scum.

[Shaziro]

OTM is still objectively the correct vote here no matter how you look at it. I'm still voting there. I'm perfectly content. If we no lynch because people are indecisive I'm gonna be pissed.

[Shaziro]

OTM, "I COULD HAVE SELFHAMMERED" is not an argument. Scum don't always selfhammer.

[Shaziro]

Except A: That would have been an even more blatant scum move, and would have gotten you turbolynched and B: You've claimed repeatedly to be at work/busy and unable to post consistently, so you could easily have just missed the opportunity and now are trying to claim that as a pro-town move. It's bullshit, stop trying to feed it to us.

[Shaziro]

hello i was prodded. i lost internet. but i have it back now

You need to vote Mark nowish, we're running out of time, they're scum, etc etc.

[Shaziro]

WOOHOO REMEMBER THAT TIME I WAS SUPER RIGHT A LOT AND THEN WAS WRONG THAT ONE TIME AND SHOT THE WRONG PERSON BUT WHATEVER YAY! Good job town!

[Shaziro]

yo

gg

sorry to the mods for inactivity. i forgot how long games are here and my bros dying so fast helped kill my motivation

shoutouts to ran for dunking on mark

mark....why try to lynch the vig? we should hav gone klazam and call it a day

i feel like chara was robbed and should hav won for fooling nearly everyone. that said props to brass for figuring that out

I was running a gambit to try to get townread.

Usually works and I coast 99% of the time

First game not quickhammering actually got me scumread. Like I am shocked people didn’t townread me for that.

But I was more trying to be useless than actually pushing Shaziro.

Anything that has the reasoning "Well scum would have done that, town wouldn't be dumb enough to, so them not doing it means they're town" is probably bad to read on imo. Because if scum are aware that "X is scummy, and moreover -obviously scummy-" they won't do the thing.