Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Kopherald]

Alrighty, which one of us wants to be the one to make an Avatar reference first?

Hello, it's me! I will make it first: Water, Earth, Fire, Air, three of these are in this game, the Air one is still frozen in the ocean I guess.

Since we cannot post in the thread, the two of us agree that we'd like more from Sando.

VOTE: Sando

Pretend there is a picture of a Predator on the side of my post rather than Griff Tannen, thanks.

Are you skipping RVS due to posting difficulties or any other reason?

Any particular preference for Sando over the other 1-posters?

I love the RVS stage, and if I could have used the hydra I would have.

As for the Sando, I am awaiting the Kop head's thoughts, as the Brass head's just using a gut read that agrees with a Kop-head brain read.

This head thing is confusing. I'm not the smart head.

[Kopherald]

We don't see the scum motivation in Doomfeathers' posts so far, sure they are not good, but probably just weak town play rather than scum play from what we can tell.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later?

If Doomfeathers is scum, Shadpearl is scum too, I guess.

Please explain this, Pigeonman.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Shadpearl[/quote]

It does appear that Doomsfeather may be forcing to be looking town, but right now, I just don't see any scum motivation in his posts.

However, Shad has pinged my radar, I would find scum more in Shad than I would in Doom right now.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Shadpearl

My question still stands to Pigeonman, I don't get the associative, but see Shadpearl as scum.

Also, I like our tags working, other head.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Shadpearl

My question still stands to Pigeonman, I don't get the associative, but see Shadpearl as

scumlean*

.

Also, I like our tags working, other head.

-Brass

EBWOP

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Shadpearl

It does appear that Doomsfeather may be forcing to be looking town, but right now, I just don't see any scum motivation in his posts.

However, Shad has pinged my radar, I would find scum more in Shad than I would in Doom right now.

- Kop

Fixed vote tags.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later?

If Doomfeathers is scum, Shadpearl is scum too, I guess.

Let's not forget that there is a SK in this game, so in reality, they both could be scum, but not on the same team.

So if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates, one mafia, and one SK?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates, one mafia, and one SK?

Why would mafia and sk be team mates?

I didn't say SK and mafia being team mates, Anen wasn't clear to whether he is meaning scum together (mafia together) or one mafia, and one SK.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates,

OR

one mafia, and one SK?

Why would mafia and sk be team mates?

I just missed the word "or".

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

Honestly it's less a pressure vote and more of a "this is the most likely scum for me as of right now" vote. Obviously I am still looking for scum, as it's

possible

Creature is town and there's another explanation - it's not likely though, based on my previous games with him. But I'm keeping my options open, which was the reason for the disclaimer with my vote. I don't want to speedlynch because if we do, we'll have less information to go off of (which is another likely reason he's not participating); I would have been more cautious with my vote if he was close to hammer but he's not.

This is good posting.

Hey, I brought up the urge for someone to make an Avatar reference. You can atleast credit me for that.

This isn't great posting, but I did jump on the chance to make the Avatar joke. By the way, new theory maybe we are the air nomads? That being said, lots of people in this game are not doing anything yet.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

Do you know what would make him post? (If anything)

I do not, if anyone figures it out, I would love to know myself.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

You hate all four wagons, but you don't comment on Anienen (Pigeonman). Please explain.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

You hate all four wagons, but you don't comment on Anienen (Pigeonman). Please explain.

-Brass

I don't think there's any good reason to wagon him; he hasn't looked particularly scummy that I remember, and his votes were just leftover RVS. I can examine him if you wish.

No need. I just found that odd.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere

My self-reminder to wagon this.

The weird thing is, I have been taking the word of others that you were active, but you weren't, I checked a few minutes ago.

Any explanation, Lalendra?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Ah, Hello!

VOTE: Creature

(I don't know how to do the white text everyone else is using for their votes... Sorry. >~<)

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

I'm actually appreciating Doomfeathers getting the game started and everyone talking. If we kill him, couldn't we wait for later? Once we've all hopped in with both feet and don't need him threatening to toss us into the pool like a demonic older brother? haha

flicking through the thread can I ask how people have interpreted this post, because I've changed my mind.

obviously, a new player, if you don't know how to use the tags, not a criticism, everyone has to start somewhere, I'm just putting it out there. (ps, [.v]player[/.v] without the .'s)

then, voting for a player who hasn't posted, but first post, so let's be nice and say RVS

however, to say I would hate for someone to be force to play if they didn't want to - this makes no sense to me because creature hasn't posted, how can you know any of their thoughts?

then I've already picked up on the Doomfeathers buddying.


there is no way a player has made links to 2 players in their first post and outed the entire scum team, this has got to be n00b town (no offence)

That doesn't clear Doom or Creature in anyway, or link doom to creature. I just think Shadpearl is likely town now.

How do you know he is noob town? How do you know exactly how much mafia experience he has in the mafia world?

I look back at it now, and see that there could be newness to his style, but I am not going to discredit any read towards him because of this, because I simply don't know what his experience is right now.

I would hate for someone to be forced to play if they didn't want to, hence my vote.

That is certainly nice of you, but it's not going to help you win. You want to find people you think are scum, then vote them. If Creature doesn't want to play, he can always replace out.

I lean Shad town. He looks scummy in pretty much the same manner every newbie townie ever does, as opposed to how newbie scum would look. This is his first game, for Gaben's sake; he wouldn't be that devious. I'm thinking there's scum in his wagon, maybe multiple.

I ask you the same question, how do you know that he is a newbie? Are you not possibly considering that he could have experience of mafia from other websites, and possibly not changed his style? This could be how he plays. Don't rule out anything and put it down to one thing, because there is always a slim possible chance that you could be duped because your putting it down to his join date on here.

It does appear that Doomsfeather may be forcing to be looking town, but right now, I just don't see any scum motivation in his posts.

You realise that looking town has scum motivation, right?

Yes, I am fully aware of that. It's more of a RVS thing, I don't see any scum trying over hard to look town during RVS, when they could easily blend in and just do what everybody else is doing. Such tactics like trying too hard can sometimes backfire and bring unwanted attention, which is what I don't think Doom would want, so in that sense, I don't see any scum motivation to do it.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

@Kopherald - I don’t

Does this forum have a word for this phenomenon- when a town player town reads his scum buddy, just to get a town read on his pal out and about in the thread

I’m sort of thinking how chainsawing is a word for someone who defends his buddies attacker


Anyway, the point. I always look at things as either it is or it isn’t - I think the odds of noob is higher than the probability of the phenomenon above, so I ran with it

Profii, did you make a typo in here, or does it just independently not make any sense to me?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

TGP, A50 and doomfeathers are clearly on the same level on this list.

Why would you think otherwise?

Are you just throwing out accusations in this game, too?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

As to the read on doomfeathers, I will allow the smart head to explain it rather than the asking questions head.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I've decided I don't need a response.

VOTE: TGP

This looks like his scum game to me. I've seen it before.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Brass, I like your play so far this game so I'm interested in hearing more about why you're confident on your TGP scumread.

I've played with TGP before, and as town, each one time, and then I looked a bit into his meta when I saw the major difference.

TGP just has a strange dichotomy in town and scum game, where his scum play has weird ways of fake scum hunting where he claims to want to sort out people by lynching others from what I recall of his scum game. Town game, he was much more straigthforward, voting for his scum reads, even sharing a bit less information about supposedly trying to sort people.

I know he has only posted three times, but two of those three look like his scum play to me, and nothing like his town plays.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I said I'd do a readslist, so here are my thoughts.

Taly's D1 Page 6 Readslist

Spoiler: Town

Ausuka (Moderate Town)

- I like that they took issue with

Profii's

post on

Shadpearl

in Page 3. 74 They're filtering information and have had consistent reads.

Anenien (Town-Lean)

- He's currently pushed his scum read on

Doomfeathers

, after explaining that his motivations were in the intent to gain information. I think his posts are town-motivated. 35

JaydragonKing (Town-Lean)

- Originally, I thought he wasn't helpful, but his post about

TheGoldenParadox's

quickvote on the

Almost50

wagon AND associatives made me happy, especially since

GoldenParadox's

jump was right after my post on questioning

Almost50

and

Doomfeathers

scum. He seems to catch things a bit quickly.

Creature (Gut Town)

- I haven't seen enough to be very confident; but I don't think the quick, poorly-explained wagon on him was town-motivated. I'd see scum taking the opportunity to push him closer to a lynch. I want to see flips before I look more thoroughly at him.

havingfitz (Potential Town)

- VLA, understandably, so they haven't posted much. Yet, they've asked questions, and I haven't felt weird about reading their posts so far. 84 and 144

Kopherald (Potential Town)

- I'm uncertain here, but I feel that he's sorting the game out. I want to know more about his

doomfeathers

read.

Spoiler: Null

texcat (Pure Null)

- Nothing inherently scummy or towny. Still waiting on a reply from them.

blockcandy (Pure Null)

- Lurker or inactive.

Shadpearl (Gut Null)

- I wanted to say this guy is town because he wasn't guarded in his original post, but his vote in agreement of

TheGoldenParadox

could've easily been survivalistic.

proffi (Gut Null)

- Since his vote and read on

doomfeathers

, he hasn't responded or pushed much for his reasons. Can't get an accurate read yet.

Spoiler: Scum

Lalendra (Potential Scum)

- Voteparking on a wagon without someone present. Early townread on

Doomfeathers

who I scumread. 19 Little to no push or active scumhunting.

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Saldon (Potential Scum)

- On the

Creature

wagon. Was not voted by

Doomfeather

s for the same reason

Doomfeathers

voted

havingfitz

. Switched on

Almost50

wagon after I discredited the

Creature

wagon. May have solid reasoning, so this is not a confident read.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

I have 5 scumreads, at least 1 of them are town. So I'll reevaluate some of these reads later.

I want to see more

Doomfeathers

and other players, but currently, I am comfortable with my vote.

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

Where did Taly say A50 was a stronger scum read than Doom? I'm failing to see it.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I said I'd do a readslist, so here are my thoughts.

Taly's D1 Page 6 Readslist

Spoiler: Town

Ausuka (Moderate Town)

- I like that they took issue with

Profii's

post on

Shadpearl

in Page 3. 74 They're filtering information and have had consistent reads.

Anenien (Town-Lean)

- He's currently pushed his scum read on

Doomfeathers

, after explaining that his motivations were in the intent to gain information. I think his posts are town-motivated. 35

JaydragonKing (Town-Lean)

- Originally, I thought he wasn't helpful, but his post about

TheGoldenParadox's

quickvote on the

Almost50

wagon AND associatives made me happy, especially since

GoldenParadox's

jump was right after my post on questioning

Almost50

and

Doomfeathers

scum. He seems to catch things a bit quickly.

Creature (Gut Town)

- I haven't seen enough to be very confident; but I don't think the quick, poorly-explained wagon on him was town-motivated. I'd see scum taking the opportunity to push him closer to a lynch. I want to see flips before I look more thoroughly at him.

havingfitz (Potential Town)

- VLA, understandably, so they haven't posted much. Yet, they've asked questions, and I haven't felt weird about reading their posts so far. 84 and 144

Kopherald (Potential Town)

- I'm uncertain here, but I feel that he's sorting the game out. I want to know more about his

doomfeathers

read.

Spoiler: Null

texcat (Pure Null)

- Nothing inherently scummy or towny. Still waiting on a reply from them.

blockcandy (Pure Null)

- Lurker or inactive.

Shadpearl (Gut Null)

- I wanted to say this guy is town because he wasn't guarded in his original post, but his vote in agreement of

TheGoldenParadox

could've easily been survivalistic.

proffi (Gut Null)

- Since his vote and read on

doomfeathers

, he hasn't responded or pushed much for his reasons. Can't get an accurate read yet.

Spoiler: Scum

Lalendra (Potential Scum)

- Voteparking on a wagon without someone present. Early townread on

Doomfeathers

who I scumread. 19 Little to no push or active scumhunting.

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Saldon (Potential Scum)

- On the

Creature

wagon. Was not voted by

Doomfeather

s for the same reason

Doomfeathers

voted

havingfitz

. Switched on

Almost50

wagon after I discredited the

Creature

wagon. May have solid reasoning, so this is not a confident read.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

I have 5 scumreads, at least 1 of them are town. So I'll reevaluate some of these reads later.

I want to see more

Doomfeathers

and other players, but currently, I am comfortable with my vote.

I don't have any strong reads on Doom, I specifically said that I don't see any scum motivation from Doom's forced appearance of trying to look town. Especially in RVS stage, but I could be wrong in what I am saying, I'm just trying to believe in my own mind that someone wouldn't jump out in the way he did and bring attention onto himself. He could have easily sat back joined in with RVS and allowed everyone else to take the lead.

I will need to reread his ISO again.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

As to the read on doomfeathers, I will allow the smart head to explain it rather than the asking questions head.

-Brass

I'd like to know both of your heads' thought on

doomfeathers

. I've hydra'd before, so I understand why it takes longer to formulate concrete heads when there are more than one head.

I, like Kop-head, don't have any strong feelings either way. I don't see a scum motivation for the early actions, but at the same time, even if I switch to trying to determine if there is town indication from him, I'm just not getting so much.

Kop said he was going to look through ISOs, and so am I, eventually. I'm taking the lead on TGP. I know he has just three posts, but it already looks like the thing he does as scum where he throws out a bunch of people he wants to sort out, but doesn't establish any of them as an actual scum read/scum lean, just that someone is scum and he wants to sort them out.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

NAI

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Hi Creature,

I'd just like some clarification here to make sure I get what you are saying with the first post, which then leads to the second.

Does the NAI refer to TGP's post, or to Taly's reads/vote? Because when I read the first by itself, it reads like you are referring to TGP's post.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

NAI

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Hi Creature,

I'd just like some clarification here to make sure I get what you are saying with the first post, which then leads to the second.

Does the NAI refer to TGP's post, or to Taly's reads/vote? Because when I read the first by itself, it reads like you are referring to TGP's post.

-Brass

I responded NAI to "Taly voting doom over A50". My TGP vote is unrelated to this response.

Okay.

I agree with you on the NAI part, then.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I don't think so.
Why need I?

Pro-tip: This is an open game. I'll let you figure this one out from here.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I don't think so.
Why need I?

NVM. I was just trying to help.

Actually, what was the point of a painfully obvious fake claim?

It's so obvious that anyone should have said "No, I wouldn't believe that, because I can read." (Pigeonman, please read the first post of this game.)

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I don't think so.
Why need I?

NVM. I was just trying to help.

Actually, what was the point of a painfully obvious fake claim?

It's so obvious that anyone should have said "No, I wouldn't believe that, because I can read." (Pigeonman, please read the first post of this game.)

-Brass

Why would he even need to read the first page when I said FIGURATIVELY, OF COURSE. Even if someone hadn't read the setup they would have still got the meaning of my post, which is: I am Town and I believe FIRMLY that your slot is too.

This is why I am not the smart head.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

@profii, I wasn't saying we were going to find associatives with Creature if he was scum. I was saying that there are 3 other scum in the game that we need to find, and can lynch creature if he's going to be obvious based on his meta but still wait long enough to develop reads on other people.

I am also of the opinion that Creature is not Obvscum here. I have been told by several people with far more experience than I that this is his established meta on Mafiascum.

Also, I am also suspicious of Lalendra and have been since I realized she misrepped Creature.

I'm still on TGP though, I think now he's just upset probably because he'll insist I caught him "for the wrong reasons" or whatever scum caught early say.

FOS Lalendra

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Yeah it's been a whole day and he's been active elsewhere so I'm voteparking this until/unless something convinces me otherwise.

VOTE: Creature

Is vote parking on what is likely scum a superior strategy to actually scum hunting, though?

Its early and if this keeps up, Creature is obvscum but it's clear that pressure votes don't make him post as scum.

-Brass

I took the top sentence as, "even if we have caught some very obvious scum play here, we should spend the time we have on game-day1 to do some other scum hunting over the course of the next IRL week (or so) as it may help later"

that might have been through associatives or other scum hunting methods... the ping for me was if Creature is obv scum, why not just plain old rush? I can't think of a reason I would want scum to be in the game longer than necessary.




I think it was probably just miscommunication

Yeah, we're saying the same thing

Oops.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to alignment?

Because scum already know who is town and who is scum. Sure it's possible to fake long-winded readslists as scum, but imo, this type of thinking-out-loud posting usually comes from town.

The issue though is we also have an SK here.

The question, I then ask is this: Do you believe that his effort would be at the same level as his town effort if he rolled the SK role and also does not know who any of the goons are?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

TGP, A50 and doomfeathers are clearly on the same level on this list.

Paradox wasn't, and I usually assume scumreads are in order one way or the other myself. :shrug:

TheGoldenParadox (Potential Scum)

- Quick vote and associative tell once

Almost50's

wagon gained momentum... after I line-by-lined him and voted

Doomfeathers

. 128 and 135 This was his second post in the game. 139 So I don't know how he came to that conclusion.

Doomfeathers (Scum)

- Overcautious posts Inconsistent reasons of voting, quick votes on wagons. Explains when it isn't necessary. Scumread but not voted on by other scumread.
My ISO on him elaborates on all of this.

Almost50 (Scum)

- Tunnels

Creature

for out-game reasons. Little explanaton of push, and falsely accuses me when my view doesn't align with his. AtE at some points. Has not done anything other than a PL on

Creature

. Misrepped me once. Associates

Doomfeathers

and

Creature

... but then associated me with

Creature

the moment he gets any pushback.
My scumread on him was reinforced in his 130

That should have been "@TGP, A50 and doomfeathers are clearly on the same level on the list"

I did not realize until now it was unclear.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

No response to my readslist?

Also, what makes you so confident in Creature being town now?

the amount of effort you're putting in leads me to believe you are likely town.

Why do you think effort is related to alignment?

Because scum already know who is town and who is scum. Sure it's possible to fake long-winded readslists as scum, but imo, this type of thinking-out-loud posting usually comes from town.

It isn't always the case, I've seen some really strong scum players make big posts, and create strong arguments that usually give strong town vibes.

In usual cases, the amount of effort being put in by players are often transparent and you can sense which alignment it is coming from.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

@Doom / 242 - probably not, I think he is a policy lynch for tunneling a player who I think is town, but obviously you’re allowed to be wrong so id probably only lynch if he refuses to look at anyone else other than Creature as I hate tunnels

We aren't policy lynching anybody because you don't like tunnels. Myself I don't like tunnels, but I'm not going to flat out policy lynch someone because they either can't get out of a tunnel or refuse too.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I didn't realise A50 was so far in the voting counter.

I haven't ISO'd everybody since I last said I would, I've got a free weekend coming up, so hopefully I can go through them.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I didn't realise A50 was so far in the voting counter.

I haven't played many large's, but why is L-4 a big deal?

Because when I commented on we aren't policy lynching, I thought there wasn't many votes on him, but then I saw he had that many votes, even if he was at L-4, he is still closer to a lynch, than no where near.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

3)

Your case on

Doomfeathers

is understated. I cannot "follow you" if I don't know why you're pushing someone.

As far as I can tell the case is that Doom was associated (if only in the mind of A50) with Creature, and A50 was scumreading Creature at the time. I see no sign of an independent case on Doom. A50 even started to retract his read on Doom in

Your attempt to switch attention to doom now makes me thin doom IS being a bad townie here. You're going down next after Creature flips red.

And yet now A50 has switched his attention to Doom, so much so that he wants to go mano a mano with him. Something stinks here.

VOTE: Almost50

That's actually a good spot.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

hang on, can Almost summarise his case on Doom right now, initially in 113 he said it was based on clear associatives between doom/creature, however in 260 he says creature can be town for now.

I'm a bit lost, so if Almost50 could just go over why Creature is now town and why his doom case still stands, it would help me greatly.

I feel like this is Scum!doom that I was partnered with before.

Creature did a few things I'm not familiar of him doing as Scum (no need to elaborate here).

In short, I did a reread of the game and came up with a revamped read list (that I would still consider it anti-town to share in full), and doom happens to be the strongest SR on it.

So in reality, you're just basing your read of a previous game where you were both scum, rather than what he's doing in this game?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

How so? I played recently in a game where she was conftown and barely participated so I'm not seeing yet how this is AI for her.

Oh. Nuts.

Wait, WHAT?!

Am I totally wrong or was it a slip which I'd missed before and Doomfeathers has just dug it up?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra

Other things are coming later.

Am I missing something here, how can that be perceived as a slip?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I don't know. I don't have one, I guess. I mean, I wouldn't mind lynching half of the player list as I don't have reads on them, but to say I'm confident in one slot -other than doom- to flip scum would be a lie.

Maybe I should reread the whole thread when I wake up.

The problem that I've got, is the fact that your basing your whole argument against Doom on a day one read from when he was scum with you in a previous game. I am going to have a look at that once I'm done here, but on the other hand, I would need to look at his town play day one in any other game he's played in, because in reality, we're only going off one game, and not his others. There's nothing to say that he is the same in either alignment on day one, because we're putting our eggs in one basket because A50 is saying he's playing similar to the game he participated with him, and not taking into account any of his other previous games.

A50, that would be a good thing to do when you wake up, because we need more from you about the other players that are in the game and not just one player.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Lalendra knows Texcat's alignment here. I don't know whether it's informative about Texcat as well.

From the fact that she said she had played a game where texcat was conftown?

She's referring to another game! If she says that she knows Texcat's alignment in THIS game quote it and I'll switch to this account and vote for Lalendra as soon as I see it. But right now I think this is a reading comprehension issue.

Also, Almost50, get out of your tunnel and try some more analysis.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

3)

Your case on

Doomfeathers

is understated. I cannot "follow you" if I don't know why you're pushing someone.

As far as I can tell the case is that Doom was associated (if only in the mind of A50) with Creature, and A50 was scumreading Creature at the time. I see no sign of an independent case on Doom. A50 even started to retract his read on Doom in

Your attempt to switch attention to doom now makes me thin doom IS being a bad townie here. You're going down next after Creature flips red.

And yet now A50 has switched his attention to Doom, so much so that he wants to go mano a mano with him. Something stinks here.

VOTE: Almost50

A50, one final thing from me on this matter. Could you please answer this, as I have looked through, and I don't think I saw you answering it.

From what I'm gathering, you've pretty much thought Doom is scum, to then Doom is possibly a bad townie, back to being scum again.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

If I ever read the Rules and the Setup, everyone would think I were scum.

But, without shytty jokes:

What if I told you I was Masons with Kopherald (

figuratively, of course

), would you take my word for it?

Even I know there are no Masons here.

Why would everyone think you were scum if you read the rules and setup?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

Since this post, you've stated you hate this game, so I'm not really expecting a response. However, you've seen your wagon, and you think there is opportunism based on your wagon.

It would be nice for you to answer to the wagon, and actually pick apart your wagon, who do you feel is the opportunistic person on the wagon, and give us some thoughts, who do you think is possibly scum.

Because the more you leave it, the more I'm going to think this is caught scum and can't answer to it. The Brass head put the vote on you, from his previous experience with you, so I'm going off what he knows about you, but you aren't really convincing me that he (Brass) is wrong on this one. So up to now, I'm happy to keep the vote where it is.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

And on that note, if you hate this game and aren't going to play in it, I think the right thing to do is replace out. Give it to someone who would actually do something, and make the game a lot better if everyone is playing.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

If I ever read the Rules and the Setup, everyone would think I were scum.

But, without shytty jokes:

What if I told you I was Masons with Kopherald (

figuratively, of course

), would you take my word for it?

Even I know there are no Masons here.

Why would everyone think you were scum if you read the rules and setup?

- Kop

I'm assuming from reading back, it's a classic tell that you don't read setups, or the rules. I'm also guessing that it's apparent town tell from you.

Is it to make it appear a townslip that when questioned about the setup that you weren't aware of roles that are in the game?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

That's likely.

I am calling bullshit on this.

Have you played with Doom before?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Right now, my lynchpool would be: TGP, Shad, Jay, Fitz, and Anen.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

That's likely.

I am calling bullshit on this.

Have you played with Doom before?

- Kop

No, I haven't. That's why this is BS. I did just finish a game with Aneninen, but it was abandoned on Day2, so a fairly small sample size for his meta. And I played with Aneninen way back when, but don't think that counts.

Doom, can you answer this please, if Texcat hasn't played with you, how can you agree with Anen and say that is likely?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Disappeared for nearly two days. And only two people bothered to talk about me. One of them just saying he was okay with my Lynch for no reason, and the other actually having a reason. Hmm. I wonder which one I townread from that.

You've been absent and the few times you have been here, you've been opportunistic. Even if you are on a wagon I started and fully like, I don't think there is much for us to say about why it would be okay to lynch you. It's not like you've posted a whole bunch to have much more than that.

So, go ahead and scumread anyone that doesn't talk about the non-presence you've been and how it's suspicious.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Can someone explain to me why the A-50 lynch is even being considered?

Is it just lurking? Because I'd honestly rather people be on and not post than come in and put empty comments into the game. A50 has been nowhere near a town read for me, but a scum read based solely on not posting useless comments in this specific game is dumb, and should be called out as such.

Kop head and I both think the push seems to be solely lurking-based, so, maybe the people on that wagon can explain actual other reasons to vote A50, and you could bring both heads around to it.

I'm still locked in on TGP being scum.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

What's the vote count at?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Even though Paradox is replacing out, I'm still inclined to keep my vote there. If it was for other reasons I would haven taking my vote off, but this stinks of caught scum and he can't answer to it, so instead replace out and allow someone else to do it.

I've seen it a few times where someone is highly scum read by a few, replace out and the replacement has to pick up the slack. I've seen one time, Fitz will back it up, I think there are a few from that game in this game, a scummy slot replaced out and the replacement came in and towned that slot up, it got killed by the SK and that slot flipped scum.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Dragons are also considered evil in Western culture though, Creature. And your an American Dragon.

In D&D metallic dragons are not evil. Just an FYI...

Anyways, a while back, Pigeonman asked why people are reading Doom as town, and I believe we had, at some point, said we did not see a scum argument for him since there seemed to be no scum motivation. That has since changed, he is in our current lynchpool now.

Also, I'm hesitant to withdraw a vote simply because a player had a fit about being scum read and replaced out. Furthermore, why has the mod not prodded fitz, despite his VLA status? Whether he is scum or town, it is bad for the game if he's going to join and not be able to post at all for 2 weeks.

@Mod looking forward to your response

-Brass

[Kopherald]

We need an alternative wagon.

Creature, who would you like as an alternate wagon, then?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

In fact, since I can't see it in the OP.

@Mod, does scum have day talk?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I'm not dodging, just skillfully ignoring. The way of Elsa is powerful.

To profii, I'm just a nice person in general, so I'm giving it a second chance. Besides, the first wagon isnt usually scum, from what I've heard from players I've played with. And someone will be more willing to actually replace into the slot if there's a chance of survival, so that's another one.

Does it bother you if I

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

Just to fill the void you left there and keep the pressure on the slot?

Keep pressure on an empty slot?

It's an empty slot, yes. But the manner of how it's come about is what is telling here. I'm in a catch 22 situation regarding it. We can either back off, and allow the slot some breathing space but we run a risk of that person coming in, and appearing strong that much it will be town read under no pressure, and we will allow that slot to remain in the game, or we maintain the pressure and anyone coming in as to prove they are town under pressure.

Like I said before, Redflavour replaced out, when he was scum read by half the player list, the new player came in and became widely town read, then she replaced out just before the night phase began, the SK (Fitz at that time) nightkilled that slot, and it flipped scum. Now if there wasn't a SK, I was in LYLO if I remember correctly, I wouldn't have ever considered to lynch that slot, and I'm sure I would speak for anyone that could have been in that situation instead of me.

But the only difference is, Redflavour was scum read but he had hardly no votes on him so there was no real pressure on the replacement coming in, so that basically allowed her to come in and just play the game mentality, rather than come in and think I've got to survive but possibly slip up in the process.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

I would answer your question, but that come from the Brass head as to where he got that from.

If I could surmise for his thought on that, I would think along the lines of it feels like 2 weeks since we've had a post from you.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Hi, the two weeks thing was probably my notoriously bad math skills. I thought the VLA was ending two weeks after fitz first posted it.

Most likely my bad. I cannot reliably count.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Hi, it's me, Brass, and I am here to share my infinite wisdom with you.

There are so many replacements. Is this normal for big games?

I'm on my phone so no walls from me.

I like the idea of keeping pressure, but is it really going to do anything? It seems like vote pushing just isn't working. There are too many divided players and too many people throwing away their votes. Idk quite what to do about this. Never had this problem before.

I think Almost50 is crazy, lol. Although, from the outside looking in, his posts are perfect because I can't make up my mind if he's terrible scum or the ballsiest townie I've ever seen

Sando, I'm just new and town. Sorry. Not more exciting. You are welcome to wagon me. If it gets the game moving, it's all good I suppose. I'd like to be town together though.

In my opinion, Sando is basically the only person I currently DON'T think is a possible killer. And profii, on the outside.
2 semi-discovered!
13 to go!

Last Note, continuously hopping from one vote to another is tiresome.

I don't like this post.

Infinite Wisdom has been expended. I'll be back eventually.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I looked back and Almost never hit 7 votes from what I seen, but I can't discredit the fact that he may have thought he had. Sometimes little things like that can easily be forgotten about especially considering there's been a lot happened.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Jumped the gun there, Anen. Voting me for the joke vote on Almost seems like the weirdest reason to vote me.

He seems a bit weird in general.

Pigeonman would be an acceptable lynch from my viewpoint.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

OK, Creature can be Town for now, which means I TR the entire wagon on TGP, but I'm not sure he is scum.

I'm fairly confident on doom being Scum though so..

VOTE: doomfeathers

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

Ok, here is how I’m dealing with the claim.

Almost50 wants to kill Doom-slot today

Although there was a significant wagon, we weren’t quite at intent yet so the way I’m dealing with the motivation for the claim is almost is pushing for us to go into this throw down

I asked him previously to give another scum read and he didn’t


This is moving towards deep tunnel territory and the best way to deal with it is to remove 1 of the 2 players - especially as its day 1 IMO - i don’t see this ceasing with both players alive tomorrow



Given how we’ve dealt with TGP I think it’s right to let someone come into the doom slot and deal with this

I would vote for Doom, but with him replacing out, what you are saying could change dependant on what the replacement does. The replacement might continue it on, or see it differently and not read A50 the same as what Doom did.

I feel uneasy with this post because what you said about TGP, you aren't allowing Dooms replacement to do the same. So it feels like that you are going to set Doom/replacement up for a lynch regardless of what the replacement decides to do, whilst your going to give the replacement of TGP the benefit of the doubt and allow that slot to continue.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

And it seems that your also setting A50 up for the lynch too.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I would vote for Doom, but with him replacing out, what you are saying could change dependant on what the replacement does. The replacement might continue it on, or see it differently and not read A50 the same as what Doom did.

I feel uneasy with this post because what you said about TGP, you aren't allowing Dooms replacement to do the same. So it feels like that you are going to set Doom/replacement up for a lynch regardless of what the replacement decides to do, whilst your going to give the replacement of TGP the benefit of the doubt and allow that slot to continue.

- Kop

It also sounds to me like the replacement will somehow know TGP's alignment?

I've read most of Doom's ISO just now, but he has many many huge wall posts. Could you point out where you think that is indicated?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I'm just wondering, with no replacements yet for two slots, how do we decide on who a lynch is in 3.5 days?

Aside from that, Shadpearl's posts constantly ping me. I think she's the only active slot I have a full scumread on at this point.

[Kopherald]

I'm just wondering, with no replacements yet for two slots, how do we decide on who a lynch is in 3.5 days?

Aside from that, Shadpearl's posts constantly ping me. I think she's the only active slot I have a full scumread on at this point.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Lynching one of the slots that left is the optimal play, both were being scum read pretty universally.

I still think TGP who asked to be replaced out 4 days ago, should be the lynch. For good measure, because I'm not positive we are voting.
VOTE: Paradox slot

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Happy that

Jay's

gone, he didn't truly contribute to the game and it's funny to think that the SK took him out.

You're only happy to see Jay gone because of no contribution to the game? That's just strange, Taly. Strange indeed.

But, seeing as how my read of TGP was so damn bad yesterday, I am reevaluating all reads based on content throughout day 2, and hopefully Kop-head can overcome me-head's tendency to lead to mislynches.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Is flavor leaf awate he still has a vote on himself?

Null: Texcat, jaydragonking, havingfitz, sando

Scum: Mathdino, Flavor Leaf

Town: Kopherald, Almost50, JaydragonKing, creature, taly, lalendra, ausuka, profii

@profii you have a point, on second thought it sounds like a guarantee that flavor leaf is using an action tonight. So tracker don't track him, of course you'll see something

The quickhammer plus this read list itself makes me pretty okay with thinking Jimmy is scum.

He just escaped my notice because he replaced in so late and blockcandy literally did not post either, his scumreads are just the people who had just replaced in, and for me, at least, Math has done wonders for that slot since coming in.

VOTE: JimmyUrineShot

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Taly, regarding your question to this slot about why I didn't unvote, I incorrectly scumread TGP from pretty early on. I just looked at the claim from Flavour and the hammer afterwards, during that time, I didn't check this game during that time, I left for my in-law's house around noon that day, the claim came a half hour later, I got home at 9, hammer was already done.

Kop was also not around this weekend.

Also, thank you for taking the time to respond to my question earlier, I'm satisfied with the response.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Seems I need to prod dodge.

I'm looking through Ausuka's ISO... Not really liking what I'm seeing. Looking lots at just pure activity levels for TGP yesterday. Nothing really since that point, though. Plus, I think I see some distancing tried from Jay during Day 1 a few times. Day 2 is not moving so fast, so I'm voting my hot read here.

VOTE: Ausuka

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I'm having internet problems and haven't heard from kop in a while, so phone posting to just pre emptively

VLA until Monday.

I'll address issues since my last post when I can get internet back on my computer.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Havingfitz

I just don't like this slot, I know he's been V/LA a lot on day one, but since he's come back, he's done very little.

His vote on Jimmy is based on that hammer, and very little else. He hasn't taken a much of a stance in the time he's been here, and it's giving me a gut feeling that he isn't town.

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

??? So he offered a lot more as Scum. so you suspect him to be scum for not playing to his scum meta??

And just to be clear: If fitz is not Town here I'd "automatically" assign him to being the SK.

I possibly should have been more clear with what am saying. He offered more in that game as the SK, than he is here, on one side if he was town, he should be able to offer a lot more because he doesn't have the facts in front of him, and to get the facts, he needs to progress the game by providing content. I just feel that in the time he has been here, he has been sitting on the fence, not taking any stances, and not providing much content because the tide of the game isn't actively looking in his direction, and very little suspicion going his way.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I do scumread profii but he could just be town missing the point. Jimmy's lack of content on the other hand definitely seems intentional to me.

On that note, how do you feel about Fitz?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I'm still happy with my vote on Fitz.

I'd love to provide you with a stronger case, I will ISO him again, but from what I remember seeing, there isn't much.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

We have been having some more quiet discussions in the background. Kop is better at giving his full reads, and is leading the way on the fitz push, but has not been around as much.

My personal inactivity is due to having had basically no internet and not wanting to step on Kop's toes with his fitz reasoning.

We are definitely united on the fitz read, and Kop talked me out of the Ausuka read because I was being impulsive. Kop is going to expand more on the fitz stuff being better at actually getting out thoughts rather than my shorthand, but both of us agree it's more than just inactivity and the Jimmy vote.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

So, I'm looking and I know lurking is scum!Creature's meta for Day 1. Is anyone familiar with Creature meta well enough to know what Day 2 lurking means because I am not?

Tonight was date night for me and the fiance but I don't want to be prodded, so thoughts on recent activity without going too in depth because I want to go to bed soon.

I get the profii push, I could get behind it. I feel like the voting Texcat for being on wagons yesterday is out of character for him as well.

I still want to leave a full read of havingfitz for Kop to do when he returns, but, I definitely agree with LUV's 975 and 977 I don't have much experience here, but fitz is really just being a non factor in this game. I don't see him making any real reads, I don't see much activity from him. Also, 972 is super weird, like fitz is casing himself.

JimmyDisgustingName is absent, and I still do not see anything even resembling scum hunting from the slot, though, that seems to be because he hasn't posted in over 5 days. I don't know that this is AI, exactly, but this is not great.

I'm liking LUV, he has insight, he's pushing people, engaging in the limited discussions of the game.

The rest of you are still pretty cool. That being said, since I am the one here, and Kop is not.

VOTE: Profii since he pretty much says he'll only be useful if we vote him, I'd like him to put up or shut up.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

I now realize I misread the second quote here. My apologies for that.

VOTE: Jimmy

He needs to be hanged or replaced, if the mod checks the thread again.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Where did I say I’d be useful if you vote for me?

3 - will re read tomorrow, not really bothered right now - I know I’m play a weird game and it rubs people up the wrong way so Dunno - I generally only start caring about people voting me when it is game losing

I now realize I misread the second quote here. My apologies for that.

VOTE: Jimmy

He needs to be hanged or replaced, if the mod checks the thread again.

-Brass

OK, first off, is this L-1?

I now see that it is, I thought it was L-2. I knew it wasn't a lynch when I voted, I just thought last count Sando had been on the wagon and then voted to another wagon.

I was inattentive and have to be better than that.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

VOTE: kopherald

This seems a little out of the blue. Reasons?

I don't really have any. Mostly just my gut saying this is most likely to not be genuine. I'm conditioned to marathon play right now

So your just basing your feelings purely by gut, rather than actually ask us questions?

The vote against you, I haven't really spoken to the Brass head about that, so that answer will have to come from him.

I've been pretty much in my mind wanting to lynch Fitz, I wasn't interested in any other during the previous day, and I wasn't around when Jimmy was lynched.


- Kop

[Kopherald]

#55 pretty much sheeped my vote on Shad. Never got into further detail beyond that.

#57 Tried to look busy by picking up on my misworded post

#82 He claims to be taking stances and making observations, before that post, I see very little observations or stances taken.

#499 A complete overreaction to my post towards Creature, and voted me without a valid reason for a vote.

#587 V/LA Over, catching up on ongoing games. #589 a question mark towards A50, but nothing more for almost nearly 200 posts.

#775 A vote on Jimmy for that hammer, town lean on Shad. That's it. Promised a read from the beginning, again nothing more for nearly 200 posts.

#948 He claims my read on him is based on previous meta. It's not just down to that.

#950 Yet another promise, nothing backed up.

#970 A empty question.

#976 If it's low, why aren't you prodding questions, engaging in the game, instead of sitting on the fence.

That is pretty much what I see from his ISO. Empty promises, lack of content, no stances, no engaging, no observations.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I am aware that he has been V/LA for quite some time, but in the times he has been on, and posting in here, he hasn't done a great deal.

[Kopherald]

#55 pretty much sheeped my vote on Shad. Never got into further detail beyond that.

#57 Tried to look busy by picking up on my misworded post

#82 He claims to be taking stances and making observations, before that post, I see very little observations or stances taken.

#499 A complete overreaction to my post towards Creature, and voted me without a valid reason for a vote.

#587 V/LA Over, catching up on ongoing games. #589 a question mark towards A50, but nothing more for almost nearly 200 posts.

#775 A vote on Jimmy for that hammer, town lean on Shad. That's it. Promised a read from the beginning, again nothing more for nearly 200 posts.

#948 He claims my read on him is based on previous meta. It's not just down to that.

#950 Yet another promise, nothing backed up.

#970 A empty question.

#976 If it's low, why aren't you prodding questions, engaging in the game, instead of sitting on the fence.

That is pretty much what I see from his ISO. Empty promises, lack of content, no stances, no engaging, no observations.

VOTE: Havingfitz

I am aware that he has been V/LA for quite some time, but in the times he has been on, and posting in here, he hasn't done a great deal.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

And there is zero way I am getting into the debate about A50. There is no way that he should be considered for todays lynch.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: kopherald

This seems a little out of the blue. Reasons?

I don't really have any. Mostly just my gut saying this is most likely to not be genuine. I'm conditioned to marathon play right now

So your just basing your feelings purely by gut, rather than actually ask us questions?

The vote against you, I haven't really spoken to the Brass head about that, so that answer will have to come from him.

I've been pretty much in my mind wanting to lynch Fitz, I wasn't interested in any other during the previous day, and I wasn't around when Jimmy was lynched.


- Kop

Yeah and what am I supposed to ask you? "Why can't you just be more genuine?"

You are basing your read based on gut, but you can't build a case for us to answer? How am I supposed to answer to your gut feeling?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I believe havingfitz is a mislynch and there's scum on it.

Do you town read Fitz? Why do you believe it's a mislynch?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

First check-in since last week (weekend + Easter).

I'm confined to phone use for the immediate future so comments will be short/limited.

I see I'm getting wagoned.... wtf?

Why? Low activity + v/la's?

I'll try to get read up today and post asap.

It's not just low activity or V/LA constantly, your posts when you are here, haven't exactly helped your case.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

So, again another push of us from Ausuka without an actual case.

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

And by the way, if trying to work with the rest of the town to look for lynches is "actively opportunistic" then I'm always fucking "actively opportunistic". That's how you fucking play mafia, you try to develop reads and lynch them, sometimes you're wrong, and that's okay. But, at least we're trying and not just saying that it's a "gut read" and "anyone can see it if they look at the stuff I saw" even though you don't bother actually building a case. That's why I said yesterday that Ausuka was scum, and that's why I still believe it, but we have a case for fitz up and out in the open, so we are pursuing that and that alone today. But, you all follow the one who hasn't actually posted any analysis the whole game.

-Brass (probably for the last time)

[Kopherald]

Not to mention, I'm the only one even voting you.
I have no idea how a player who is actually reading the thread posts 1087.

And the rest of the game, you have been voting with zero analysis. Just making your read lists and voting.

I am saying today it's a gut read, but I have seen nothing in terms of actual thoughts coming from your slot. I don't care if today the flavor is gut reading or not, but you have shown no analysis.

If I'm still being unclear, the point is that you have not posted a thought process at any point in the game from what I can tell. I'm not saying you have only been voting your gut reads this whole game, but this is the first time I have seen any reasoning at all for your votes, and it's "gut says so"

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Who blocks candy? Seriously.

VOTE: blockcandy

RVS post.

btw

mod...I'm v/LA now until Mar 13th.

I'll be able to keep up via phone, and post somewhat...but will definitely be less active.

First V/LA.

The guy just hates to play Scum and he either lurks it out until lynched/replaced or posts nonsense on intervals and still gets lynched

He's logged onsite since this game has begun

This tells me he is agreeing with Almost, but why not vote?

However, Shad has pinged my radar,

His lone post pings me as well. If doomfeather seems town to him why would he suggest saving doom to vote for later?

VOTE: Shadpearl

Sheep vote.

if your saying both are scum, I'm assuming your thinking along the lines of, possible team mates, one mafia, and one SK?

Why would mafia and sk be team mates?

Trying to look busy picking up on a misworded post from myself.

He's dodging attention.

How am I dodging attention? I'm taking stances and making observations.

If I wanted to dodge attention my v/la (which is legit) would be more stringent with no, or much less, posting.

@Everyone, look at the quotes above this one, or even go to his ISO, and please tell me where Fitz is taking these stances and observations he's making out he's doing.

I see nothing.

Mod... what's up with blockcandy.

Nothing but a filler post.

Mod... what's up with blockcandy.

Lol...sorry mod....missed the prod.

Again.

Furthermore, why has the mod not prodded fitz, despite his VLA status? Whether he is scum or town, it is bad for the game if he's going to join and not be able to post at all for 2 weeks.

@Mod looking forward to your response

-Brass

Where are you getting two weeks from?

I'm still v/la...the snowstorm in NE is delaying my return till Thursday morning.

I'll try to catch up on my reading asap.
Till then....
UNVOTE:

Unvotes Shad, why?

VOTE: havingfitz

Would policy lynch someone who gets away five days without being poked.

Might be something or nothing, but posting in a PT would that avoid a poke?

- Kop

Wow... brass I could see asking this question but not Kop.

For someone so concerned with my v/la and whether I should have been prodded during it (WTF!?) you'd think you could answer my question to you above.

VOTE: Kopherald

Over reaction to my question towards Creature. Why would Fitz get his back up to a question that is a viable one?

V/la over. Catching up with my ongoing games today.

Now he's back.

(This is what you get for playing @ MU)

?

Posts a question mark, nothing more until post #775. I mean seriously, how can you simply come back from V/LA claim your catching up, and provide nothing until 186 posts later?

VOTE: Jimmy for that hammer.

Lean town on Shad.

I need to reread game from beginning. Too much time away from this game.

Lamist vote on Jimmy for that hammer, that's his only reason for that vote. Fitz voted for Jimmy and never followed up anything towards Jimmy, no case, no more interactions and now that slot has flipped one of the doctors.

busy IRL

^

If Fitz flips scum, I would be inclined to claim that Asuka is his partner. She's simply trying her damndest to get the wagon of Fitz for a shoddy reason.

I'm still happy with my vote on Fitz.

Because I'm not playing like I did in a game where I was an sk?

If you're going to rely on meta for your gut reads on me you could at least look at gsmes we've played where I was scum (Open 674 & mini 1653). I don't think those games will apply to this one but they'd probably be better than an sk game. You could also peruse the several town games we've been in.

It's not just down to Meta.

The game has come to a stagnation.. again

Qft.

I haven't got a lot of room to talk but things have ground to a halt it seems.

6 days is still time to lynch elsewhere if a promising wagon develops but that would involve people participating.

I'll try to get refreshed on the game over the next few days and do a few isos...give expanded reads. Etc etc.

Yet another promise for a catch up, I'm still bloody waiting for the first one.

HavingFitz, may be scum.

But he isn't.

Why would you think so?

I think it's the lack of posting? Or maybe the lack of reads, just judging by what people have been saying.


No one has any commentary on Creature possibly being the SK? x) I thought that was such a great theory, lol.

Hi Shad. Good to see you posting.

The question was for Aneninen...not for you.

Despite being v/LA a good portion of this game I have posted more than a few players...yourself included. texcat. Jimmy. And I've given a few reads out. I've stated at least one town read and indicated a least two players I suspect. So I've given reads on a quarter of the remaining players without really even trying.

A few bonus reads for you...pre-refresh + ISOs....I lean not mafia on Luv and A50. And Creature. As for Creature being an SK....I do not SK hunt until I have to.

I only seen one town lean given out, which I think you retracted.

As for the 2 players you suspect, they mean absolutely nothing, nothing if you aren't chasing them, voting them, or building a case on them. They are words, but no action. I can throw a few words out and just leave it at that, anything just to look busy.

Fitz, you don’t seem to be pushing anything.

1) The amount I push is proportional to confidence, availability and interest. All of which are low atm.
2) A vote isn't a push?

Like I said, if confidence is low, why aren't you getting involved more and actually fullfilling these catch ups, asking questions, talking to people and your confidence may grow?

Especially seeing as he's currently being the counterwagon to Jimmy who is scummier.

Why is Jimmy scummier than profii?
Have you ever seen a game where counterwagons were both on scum?

This is just a empty question that you aren't going to take any further.

I mean I only want to lynch this slot because it's lurking.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

So you voted for Jimmy for hardlies bringing any content to the table, but Fitz is almost comparable and your defending that slot. What made the Jimmy (doctor) wagon a good wagon, but not the Fitz one?

- Kop

[Kopherald]

VOTE: Profii

WTF is this? A naked vote.

I mean seriously.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

Ok hold up. In your (hydras) own words, the case on Fitz is comparable to the Jimmy slot, which flipped doc. Yet Ausuka is the stupid one for not continuing the same read that flipped town onto another person? Re-evaluating your reads is surely a part of this game? And if you want to lynch someone comparable to the Jimmy slot go ISO Creature D2, pay attention to timestamps. I pointed out numerous times that both him and Jimmy had been away for an inordinate amount of time, yet you've ignored him today despite it being fairly comparable (I even compared it for you).

1) Why did you put someone who hadn't posted in ~5 days to L-1? Was it to pressure an absent player? Pressure the mod?
2) Why was Jimmy a viable lurker-lynch yesterday but Creature who failed to post for basically the same period not?

I can't answer for Brass, as there was no talk about the vote on Jimmy on day two, in and around the lynch, I (Kop) wasn't around, when I came on, the lynch had already been done.

In my mind, I wanted Fitz to be lynched, and this day, I ain't moving anywhere until Fitz finally eats rope.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

You are all objectively playing poorly today. You're listening to this "gut case" from someone who has not created a single actual case, but does do a really dumb read list once in a while without any reasoning. Taly asked us to respond to this case, which is just absurd. And a case has been posted about Havingfitz and you all decide to ignore it and say "No, it's because he's been inactive." So, I beg of you, if the town still wants to win, stop being idiots and actually look and think. Yes, hold us responsible for what we have done during the game, but don't just go on gut reads on day fucking 3! Day 3 where we have not lynched a single scum. Try to think logically with your head for a few minutes. Most of all, try to make a goddamned case against someone ANYONE even us. Otherwise, this game is as lost for us as I think it is.

Ok hold up. In your (hydras) own words, the case on Fitz is comparable to the Jimmy slot, which flipped doc. Yet Ausuka is the stupid one for not continuing the same read that flipped town onto another person? Re-evaluating your reads is surely a part of this game? And if you want to lynch someone comparable to the Jimmy slot go ISO Creature D2, pay attention to timestamps. I pointed out numerous times that both him and Jimmy had been away for an inordinate amount of time, yet you've ignored him today despite it being fairly comparable (I even compared it for you).

1) Why did you put someone who hadn't posted in ~5 days to L-1? Was it to pressure an absent player? Pressure the mod?
2) Why was Jimmy a viable lurker-lynch yesterday but Creature who failed to post for basically the same period not?

I can't answer for Brass, as there was no talk between us about the vote on Jimmy on day two, in and around the lynch point, I (Kop) wasn't around, when I came on, the lynch had already been done.

In my mind, I wanted Fitz to be lynched on day 2, and this day, I ain't moving anywhere until Fitz finally eats rope.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

I can't answer for Brass, as there was no talk between us about the vote on Jimmy on day two, in and around the lynch point, I (Kop) wasn't around, when I came on, the lynch had already been done.

In my mind, I wanted Fitz to be lynched on day 2, and this day, I ain't moving anywhere until Fitz finally eats rope.

- Kop

(Ignore the previous 2 posts, I missed a few words out, added the missing words to make it more understandable.

[Kopherald]

-Brass (probably for the last time)

Why?

I was upset with all the players here and thinking I was just going to sit in the private thread and let Kop post while I cursed alot in there and told him what I thought to allow some sort of filter come through for me.

I'm still upset, and still not ready to go back to posting in a way that would move anything forward because it will inevitably become a stream of swearing. I am however, ready to admit I was rash in saying I wouldn't post again.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Fitz is on 3 votes, Profii is on 3 votes, Fitz votes for the next vanity wagon to over take himself, Almost50 votes for Profii and puts him at L-1.

Why would Fitz vote for the next biggest wagon? Without a valid reason or any reason at all.

It's nothing but a survivalist vote. Scummy.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

We might be SK-dependent at this point, but whatever.

Kop was saying this same thing in our PT yesterday. I still don't get how that would work. Could you explain, please?

-Brass

[Kopherald]

At this point, I don't want to lynch Shad or Profii.

If Profii is telling the truth, we could potentially lynch the last doctor, or lynch a SK which isn't a bad thing you would think but he could be beneficial for one night because he could take down another scum member.

If lynching Shad flips over the last doctor, we are going to lose a doctor, and a tracker. That would royally fuck us.

Shad flipping doctor, obviously discredits A50 claim, but A50 could have claimed it to try bait the night kill as a VT knowing that he wouldn't be CC.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

Just an FYI because I see how long ago we last posted. Today is my neice's first birthday, so I'm probably not around until like tomorrow evening, but I also hate being prodded, so I am posting a few thoughts now.

Shad is likely a scum, but we have at least two other scum out there. No reason to turbo lynch a guilty right now, we have a good amount of time until the deadline. This discussion is, at the very least getting more content out there to analyze.

Shadpearl, if you are town, get your vote off of yourself. Self-voting is a dumb move as town.

I still don't feel good about havingfitz or texcat either

Would you mind summarizing? If not I'll ISO you when I can.

This is also hilarious to me. Two other people have made comprehensive posts about fitz looking like scum, and seemingly, he wants to ignore those two acting like he'll respond to this one.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Hey, I grabbed like 5 minutes during work to try and gather my thoughts on this, and there is more going on than I expected, but I did come across one question that I need to have answered and I could not find it. Who replaced Doomfeathers? I remember him replacing out, but don't know if his slot is still around.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Hey, I grabbed like 5 minutes during work to try and gather my thoughts on this, and there is more going on than I expected, but I did come across one question that I need to have answered and I could not find it. Who replaced Doomfeathers? I remember him replacing out, but don't know if his slot is still around.

-Brass

Nevermind, I was premature here. I remember now, Math replaced doom, and LUV replaced Math, right?

P-edit: profii is not really near hammer

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I've spoke with Brass a little bit over the past few days whilst we were waiting for day to come round. And we both said what was going to happen, and that it has happened. Scum have clearly seen there was suspicion aimed at us before the previous day ended, and have directed there kills to further strengthen that suspicion pointing to us.

We have also discussed a little bit, and both agreed scum is within Fitz/Ausuka and a outside chance of Texcat.

- Kop

[Kopherald]

So, on the Taly case, I think lots of confirmation bias is going on. Taly truly believes we are scum, and any explanations we give to anything that is brought up has already been ignored to accentuate the conclusion.

Personally, that's why I'm not chomping at the bit to post here, it feels useless if people are just going to use something I've already spoken about with plenty of detail, like my lack of withdrawing the flavor leaf vote after his claim, to make a case and town's just going to follow the case. I've had my say, and people have shown a remarkable ability to ignore it and forget about it. I'm pretty sure this is an SK win at this point anyway because I think SK knows who the last scum is but scum doesn't know who the SK is.

I'll lay our vote down for Fitz here and move on because no matter how many times we post our case, it bending l becomes that we haven't posted a case on them and I'm tired of putting in efforts that are going to be ignored.

VOTE: Fitz

[Kopherald]

So, on the Taly case, I think lots of confirmation bias is going on. Taly truly believes we are scum, and any explanations we give to anything that is brought up has already been ignored to accentuate the conclusion.

Personally, that's why I'm not chomping at the bit to post here, it feels useless if people are just going to use something I've already spoken about with plenty of detail, like my lack of withdrawing the flavor leaf vote after his claim, to make a case and town's just going to follow the case. I've had my say, and people have shown a remarkable ability to ignore it and forget about it. I'm pretty sure this is an SK win at this point anyway because I think SK knows who the last scum is but scum doesn't know who the SK is.

I'll lay our vote down for Fitz here and move on because no matter how many times we post our case, it bending l becomes that we haven't posted a case on them and I'm tired of putting in efforts that are going to be ignored.

VOTE: Fitz

If you didn't get this from tone.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Also very nice of you to have kept a lot of options for you to lynch in any case. EVEN if Kop flips Mafia you have 4 different targets to push vs only 2 to kill at night. If he flips Town, you have lined up 2 "less likely to be Mafia" suspects still, so you're on the safe side. I'd say LUV is your designated NK tonight as he's the only one you never even made mention of in that masterpiece of yours.

Something Special is probably supposed to be Something Smart, who replaced LUV.

Fitz has just said that his lynch pool is anyone other than him.

*GASP* I'm shocked that he would do this./s

-Brass

[Kopherald]

1343 shows the confirmation bias I was talking about.

I mean, whatever we do just proves to Taly that we are scum. That's why I'm not going to waste my time responding to cases when he's clearly just under extreme confirmation bias. It's a pretty decent case if you only focus on the things he says and nothing else that we have said the entire game. Like, seriously Taly, fuck off. I'm not wasting my time responding to you when you have shown repeatedly that it won't matter. You made your point, you're wrong, I'm done with it. We'vce expanded on the havingfitz case weeks ago, I explained the no unvote for Flavour Leaf weeks ago. That's two points you have ignored, why should I put my time and energy into any other responses when my responses have already gone ignored?

No matter how many times I hit my head against a goddamned wall, my head is breaking before the wall, and that's what it feels like at this point.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO.

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

Sorry, 964 has the reads of not mafia goons on a few people. I missed it because he still said they could all be SK.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

1319 is also the first time fitz has really done ANYTHING resembling a read. Check his ISO

I vote players I suspect. I.e. votes are reads. I give a read on Shad (55) and Jimmy (775). And you (499).

He's now suspecting literally everyone without once making a case or a read before today.

While this is technically true...it's a bit misreppish as the people I have near the end of my lists equate to town reads.

I'm travelling the rest of today so essentially ~v/la soon.

I'm tired of Brass' bravado and the hydra's play in general.

VOTE: Kopherald

To make it easier for those trying to follow the supposed reads of Fitz.

55 "His lone post pings me as well." That's not a read.

775 "Lean town on Shad" Okay 1 semi-read, no reasoning.

499 is a vote, not a read, like at all, I mean, there is no way to even frame this as a read.

Reads involve some reasoning, a few arguments. Even the "Lean town on Shad" has no apparent reason to it, if there was a reason, fitz certainly hasn't provided it.

As to people near the end equating to town reads, how the fuck am I supposed to know that? He never said that. Plus, it's a weird thing to do. I don't see anyone else saying "Well, I think A50 could be town, but he's also my last choice for SK." or anything like that.

I don't see what anyone is seeing from this slot that may indicate any attempts to gamesolve, no gamesolving is a scum tell.

-Brass

[Kopherald]

I feel like if we lynch fitz and kopherald the game is just over and we're just wasting our time right now. I'm not going to change my mind unless I see one of them flip town, full stop.

Fuck this game, change your reads after you read our VT role card.

VOTE: Kopherald

Or town could just lynch in the actual scum. I'm done, you are all bad at scumhunting.

-Guess who this is.