Mini Normal 1996: Floral Mafia [Endgame!]

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: katherine
Too many already.
btw I'm super excited about this playerlist

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello Hello Hello.

Before I RVS vote, let me introduce myself.

I’m a mediocre mafia player at best who really dislikes Day 1s.
I’ve been known to quick hammer peeps on Day 1 if it’s just a day or two
Into the game to get the game moving.

I’m generally quite active and polite. But I have been called terrible town, an idiot and a Liar.
As recently as my last game.

But I’m looking forward to a great game with this player list.

Can we not excuse d1 quickhammers

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean you get to bring everyone else down

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MariaR

A naked RVS vote? Why?
Also no one got my reference...

[Gamma Emerald]

Feeling like Harry Potter mash MS version.

Oh man what happened there

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: tchill

this has got to die. i rolled village btw glgl me

Well that's a bit aggressive.

this response by TChill kinda feels like he's confused but doesn't want to be like "whymefryme"

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Maria

If you were a flower, you’d be a DAMNdelion

@havo why did you change your disclaimer from the last game?

Found my mason partner

Awesome post on page one man.

Elaborate?

VOTE: Katherine
Serious vote I feel like this was an obv joke/being sassy and from what i've seen scum are more then likely to take posts more seriusly because scum know people are town so there posts are legit...I prob could've explained this a bit better but yeah

Mhm, I think this seems very fair, but I have a question to ask
Katherine, how much mafia experience do you have?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh. I signed up with a few mafia genuises lol.

Oh really? What makes you say that?

[Gamma Emerald]

You're only voting mumble off meta aren't you?

Why are you voting with him then?

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk if he’s scum yet but I’m leaning that way. If he is town I don’t believe for a second he believes any of the reads he’s given.

If he was town he'd definitely believe his reads. No reason to give reads he doesn't believe them if he's town.

didn't this guy just say he townread kts

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think there's enough reason to scum read mumble. I do appreciate activity but I feel like you're definitely trying to take control of the game and I also don't like how you pointed out you could be aggressive as scum also.

VOTE: mumble

VOTE: Tchill

[Gamma Emerald]

mumble's entrance while albeit not scummy into itself, within the context of the game, is a scummy pop in during rvs to lock a vote and leave. no sense of forming a wagon, no sense of solving, and the vote i have on him almost always hits a wolf.

Yeah this makes sense now, but honestly Tchill is just scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

What? 38 feels okay to me. Besides that what would you think of kts if Tchill is lynched and flips scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

Both these posts feel fake to me. I really don't get the "scum takes things too seriously day 1" BS, and the Havo thing is weird as well, even if she does land on town.

VOTE: Maria

I hate myself for this quote wall already by the way.

I mean 38 is based on scum not having a reason to think town are lying, as for the Havo thing I don't really know what you're scumreading?

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 2

KTS and Tchill are town

hm While you're probtown this kinda feels a bit lazy? what do you think of Teech now?

[Gamma Emerald]

I like the reasoning but I wouldn't nail Katherine as scum based solely on that yet.

it was a joke then?

This and katherine's previous posts look like shy scum.

why is 38 bad then

[Gamma Emerald]

Can we not excuse d1 quickhammers

I won’t be. Disclaimer or not I’ll be pushing a lynch on anyone who quick hammers without a claim. Unless it’s a scum flip, I’ll reward bad play if it benefits town.

I mean it could be scum ending discussion early so not even that is excusable

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think there's enough reason to scum read mumble. I do appreciate activity but I feel like you're definitely trying to take control of the game and I also don't like how you pointed out you could be aggressive as scum also.

VOTE: mumble

VOTE: Tchill

ew

Well I guess only the first part of the post is objectively false the 2nd part is just a matter of opinion

What second part? The part about kts taking control? That's not why I voted, I voted for the inconsistency.

[Gamma Emerald]

Feeling like Harry Potter mash MS version.

Oh man what happened there

Gamethrowing town character-claiming and giving scum extra NK for the remaining nights.

I mean in Overwatch town didn't lynch the lovers in 5p lylo so lolmu

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca Blight can also join the townclub. If there's scum on Tchill it's Gamma.

pedit: If we lynched Tchill and he flipped scum, I probably wouldn't townread KTS for it. Them being scumbuddies could explain him continuing to hard-townread KTS even after KTS himself dismissed his point, but that's kinda meh. He'd stay null.

Excuse me? What about my vote looks like a bus?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townread ... Tchill for particular reasons.

You're wrong

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: katherine
Too many already.
btw I'm super excited about this playerlist

This being Gamma's only post so far looks terrible.

Why?

I'm so excited *lurks*

ehhh could've been busy irl etc etc
doesn't seem that good a reason
Pedit: Even if he agrees with the read doesn't mean he can't think my reasoning is shit gamma

Well what happened was I had to get off to clean the house then I went to bed

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca are you intentionally being obtuse
she was tring Havo and SRing katherine

[Gamma Emerald]

guys... i get you think tchill is scum, i saw that, too, but i think he's just an inexperienced townie. a lot of the stuff he says comes across as scummy, but i looked it over and realized the guy really doesn't know how to play mafia. pls don't lynch him.

also hi luca! didn't realize you were in this game. hi maria, too.

cedrick, luca, maria, creature, tchill, all v.
katherine, gamma slight v.
feeling implosion, mumble, ausoka as w.

rest i still gotta sort

Dude is not inexperienced. I've seen inexperienced townie him, I actually read him as town that time. This is very different and also quite a bit since then.

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca Blight can also join the townclub. If there's scum on Tchill it's Gamma.

pedit: If we lynched Tchill and he flipped scum, I probably wouldn't townread KTS for it. Them being scumbuddies could explain him continuing to hard-townread KTS even after KTS himself dismissed his point, but that's kinda meh. He'd stay null.

Excuse me? What about my vote looks like a bus?

Also this question still exists

[Gamma Emerald]

And I'm not claiming I'm terrible or inexperienced. Killthestory is claiming that. I'm claiming I'm semi experienced and decent.

@gamma I change my play up quite a bit. Just because I don't play the same way every time doesn't mean I'm scum.

Well your play isn't very good anyway, plus I was arguing that you weren't inexperienced, not that you have a solid meta trend.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's very obvious KTS wants to get the thought across that I'm not a good player and while I should be TR'd I probably shouldn't be listened to.

Thoughts on that?

Well if you're town I'm gonna be looking at him like this because that sounds like scum devaluing your opinion in that case.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm maybe so actually. Tchill why were you inconsistent with your treatment of mumble? You voted him and then said there was no reason to SR him. I understand you wanted to counterwagon but was there anything that made you want to vote them over say, Katherine or implosion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello Hello Hello.

Before I RVS vote, let me introduce myself.

I’m a mediocre mafia player at best who really dislikes Day 1s.
I’ve been known to quick hammer peeps on Day 1 if it’s just a day or two
Into the game to get the game moving.

I’m generally quite active and polite. But I have been called terrible town, an idiot and a Liar.
As recently as my last game.

But I’m looking forward to a great game with this player list.

Can we not excuse d1 quickhammers

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean you get to bring everyone else down

oh gamma's taking multiple shots. i feel better now lol.

Exactly what does calling people terrible accomplish again? Why not just play with that in mind in stead of making sure everyone knows you think X is trash at the game? Are you the king of mafia? because we need to work as a team instead of degrading multiple people before we get into the actual game.

I can't say exactly what prompted this concern but I'm very concerned Havo might hammer the cop on accident for example

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm maybe so actually. Tchill why were you inconsistent with your treatment of mumble? You voted him and then said there was no reason to SR him. I understand you wanted to counterwagon but was there anything that made you want to vote them over say, Katherine or implosion?

had i layed down a meaningful vote it would have been between Mumble or katherine. I voted just to wagon. I haven't seen anything "scummy" from implosion yet.

I honestly voted mumble just because i was told to.

Well that isn't the best reason but it's acceptable.
UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow.... That's a classic Katherine move right there.

VOTE: Maria

If you were a flower, you’d be a DAMNdelion

@havo why did you change your disclaimer from the last game?

Found my mason partner

Awesome post on page one man.

VOTE: Maria

If you were a flower, you’d be a DAMNdelion

@havo why did you change your disclaimer from the last game?

Found my mason partner

Awesome post on page one man.

Woman. Sorry lol.

VOTE: tchill

this has got to die. i rolled village btw glgl me

Well that's a bit aggressive.

this response by TChill kinda feels like he's confused but doesn't want to be like "whymefryme"

wouldn't you be a bit confused if someone was determined you were scum after 4 minimal posts? it also could have been sarcasm so i was "testing the waters" to see if it was a serious statement or not.

I play chat mafia on Pokémon Showdown. I've gotten caught on minimal content. It's possible, and the general reaction is either rage or confusion or a mix of both.

[Gamma Emerald]

so is no one gonna link a tchill towngame?

Sure, one second.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think there's enough reason to scum read mumble. I do appreciate activity but I feel like you're definitely trying to take control of the game and I also don't like how you pointed out you could be aggressive as scum also.

VOTE: mumble

VOTE: Tchill

i'm not allowed to vote someone before post 100 without a serious case? I admitted i'm voting someone without a serious reason which is no different than voting someone in RVS. Why is it only scummy because i admitted it?

Dude please don't be out of touch. The reason I asked about it now was because I felt it was scummy and if you were town I wanted to give you a chance to explain yourself. Like why are you going back now?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's prob town

I was hoping you would get scum vibes from gamma. I can't tell if he's town making an honest push or scum pushing LHF.

ewwwww given how good Maria is at reading me normally this comes off as really slimy. If Tchill flips scum never lynch Maria.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townread ... Tchill for particular reasons.

You're wrong

Anyone notice the aggressive push on me after i stated i town read KTS for his aggressive push?

No? You're twisting things now. I started pushing you when your inconsistency became very blatant.

[Gamma Emerald]

how many mafia r there? didnt read setup lol

are you serious? It's conf 10v3. this feels like a deliberate attempt for towncred.

[Gamma Emerald]

3 wolves. maria or gamma probably a deepwolf. implosion, ausoka, mumble carries like 2 out of three wolves.

lock v is prob gonna be creature and cedrick.

No mention of Tchill here. nice.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townread ... Tchill for particular reasons.

You're wrong

Anyone notice the aggressive push on me after i stated i town read KTS for his aggressive push?

No? You're twisting things now. I started pushing you when your inconsistency became very blatant.

Nice of you to just ignore me when I call you on your shit Teech.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah implosion feels fine as a wolf.

Sweet OMGUS bro

[Gamma Emerald]

In your 266 you give a rather clear scumread on kts, unless you'd like to argue that I am somehow wrong.

[Gamma Emerald]

Your reaction was still OMGUS.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why even do you dislike day 1 so much? The point of it is to generate information for future days. Cutting it off early ruins that. Your whole philosophy is rather anti-town. I am of the same mindset school teachers have for delinquent students: if you're not gonna learn fine but don't disrupt the learning of others. Substitute interact with learn and you get my stance on how day 1 dislikers should be acting.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm townread ... Tchill for particular reasons.

You're wrong

Anyone notice the aggressive push on me after i stated i town read KTS for his aggressive push?

No? You're twisting things now. I started pushing you when your inconsistency became very blatant.

Nice of you to just ignore me when I call you on your shit Teech.

I'm not ignoring you. You're posts are not the most important every post. I'll get back to you.

Why is it taking so long? Scumteam not online?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm not sure if they're online because I didn't get access to the scum thread.

lolok
the insinuation was your team wasn't online to give you tips

[Gamma Emerald]

Havo I'm interested in your reads no me Tchill and Luca, what informs them?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why even do you dislike day 1 so much? The point of it is to generate information for future days. Cutting it off early ruins that. Your whole philosophy is rather anti-town. I am of the same mindset school teachers have for delinquent students: if you're not gonna learn fine but don't disrupt the learning of others. Substitute interact with learn and you get my stance on how day 1 dislikers should be acting.

I dislike Day 1 on this site, because I've seen a consistent pattern of mass paranoia leading to lynching a townie usually.

Show me someone on this site who can Consistently nail scum on Day 1 at a rate better than 1 out of 4. I'll give that person's

Day 1 opinion much more weight. I can hit scum 1 out of 4 times by literally closing my eyes and picking a number.

Now the argument of revealing info for later use is valid, it CAN be useful down the line, but how often is it really?

I"ve seen so many Day 1 scum reads that are false that it's made me bitter I guess.

Therefore I have no problem with ending it early, if it's like in the first few RL days and I feel like it's another typical Day 1.

However if there's good discussion and I like the feel of the day, OR i Hard town read the push, I won't hammer.

First off kill the excess spacing. Second I feel like just because day 1 scumreads aren't good doesn't mean it has no ability to help form reads in the future. I personally feel like my day 1 scum finding rate is pretty good but I have had games where I just sucked horribly. Are you asking for people who can find 1 scum out of a team or who can name the team day 1? Because I have lucky moments with the latter but can generally do the former. Again, just because day one scumreads are false doesn't mean they can't be reconsidered down the line.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think KTS "how many mafia are there" dumbtell was legit

why? What specifically indicates that it looks like a genuine question when 1) it's in the OP and 2) it's pretty standard for 13p games to be 10v3? I mean I could see some town

motivation

for the question but besides that it doesn't feel like a town post to me.

Hello Hello Hello.

Before I RVS vote, let me introduce myself.

I’m a mediocre mafia player at best who really dislikes Day 1s.
I’ve been known to quick hammer peeps on Day 1 if it’s just a day or two
Into the game to get the game moving.

I’m generally quite active and polite. But I have been called terrible town, an idiot and a Liar.
As recently as my last game.

But I’m looking forward to a great game with this player list.

Can we not excuse d1 quickhammers

Just because you're terrible doesn't mean you get to bring everyone else down

oh gamma's taking multiple shots. i feel better now lol.

Exactly what does calling people terrible accomplish again? Why not just play with that in mind in stead of making sure everyone knows you think X is trash at the game? Are you the king of mafia? because we need to work as a team instead of degrading multiple people before we get into the actual game.

I can't say exactly what prompted this concern but I'm very concerned Havo might hammer the cop on accident for example

This literally made me LOL.

Don't put the cop at L-1 early game and you won't have to worry about it.

DON'T REMIND ME OF THIS GAME EITHER HAVO SWEET JESUS

wut

[Gamma Emerald]

Not really game related but these long quote chains look super ugly and are hard to read. Can we not have them this long? At some point you can cut them down to include just a few of the previous quotes, losing no functionality

I mean I believe I tried with one post, it just feels like a bother to find the point of "this is where the relevancy stops"

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't necessarily believe that just because I don't play the same way you do on day one that it's anti town gamma. It's good to know you see yourself as the teacher and I'm the juvenile delinquent that must correct my ways.

Um what
I'm pretty sure you're responding to something directed at Havo
link the post you're responding to?

[Gamma Emerald]

Ausuka's biggest issue is that right now I can 100% assure you she is not voting scum.

Please clarify in what sense this is an "issue"; do you think scum are more likely to not be voting right now?

I'm saying as town, the only opportunity that might be available to out is to vote.

I can tell you there is no chance someone not voting is currently voting scum. I don't scum read it, but it's passive and not good for town. So, not scummy, but also anti-town in my view.

Also I'm not voting either so why are you picking on Ausuka?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm saying as town, the only opportunity that might be available to out is to vote.

I can tell you there is no chance someone not voting is currently voting scum. I don't scum read it, but it's passive and not good for town. So, not scummy, but also anti-town in my view.

Also I'm not voting either so why are you picking on Ausuka?

As I said, it's the only negative I see so far from her slot.

Thoughts on me overall then?

[Gamma Emerald]

katherine wagon formation always hit a villager.

What does this even mean, and if it does mean what I think it does (the people voting Katherine suggest Katherine is town) then how are you getting that conclusion day 1?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: katherine

Cool here.

Reasons?

[Gamma Emerald]

scummy mumble pop in

Inclined to agree

[Gamma Emerald]

scummy mumble pop in

Alright man continue to push you're agenda. All I ask is you explain reads and don't blatantly push things that are obviously biased.

these posts are exactly why i lost all wim to play this game within 10 pages. i was pretty excited to play this, too, until a bunch of players started acting superior to me for whatever reason.

whatever, just won't come back.

shut up, idiot.

...are you okay? You just quoted yourself and said "shut up"

[Gamma Emerald]

Ausuka is town. Her reads progression (particularly her willingness to repeatedly add reads and not rest on the list) since the initial list looks like genuine gamesolving. Inclined toward Luca town. I don't think going all-in on the tchill push is how scum opens at that point in time. I don't think there were any other non-RVS votes at that point? And he was fairly contentious. And the reasoning feels decent enough. Not sure what I think about tchill right now though.

Maria seems town as well.

kts is also starting to sound like he's making shit up in a scummy way. His flip on tchill is really odd and makes more sense from scum than from town i think. I don't think that town-kts would display as much confidence on the tchill read as he did if it was capable of being overturned by such a simple meta dive; the read itself was sort of implicitly meta-based.

Gamma I don't think I've seen as scum before actually but I'm also not sure he goes for the tchill push here in this way.

individually, these posts are good. in the context of the game, i seriously wonder why implosion only commented on us 5 when there's more colorful personalities within the game. it really feels he's trying to avoid spew on any scumbuddies or scummy town, and he's trying to let the game progress to a mislynch without damning himself. really scummy play imo, he's gotta go soon.

Your reaction was still OMGUS.

stop being a potato.

Actually this analysis is pretty good all things considered. I'd only taken the read on you into account but the actual point you're making in this post is quite valid. Wish you would have done this earlier but it's nice to see your reasoning now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cedrick - v
Tchill13 - unsorted leaning v
Creature - v
Ausuka - v with slight potential of deepwolf
Gamma Emerald - leaning v
brassherald - slight v
Havo - w
Mumble - w
katherine - v off wagon formation + tone
MariaR - v with chance of powerwolf
Luca Blight - v with chance of powerwolf
implosion - w

my pick for a wolf team: implosion, havo, mumble 100% one scum there, almost certain there's 2, unlikely there's 3. still looking for deepwolf.

there goes all my wim. i'll probably die d2, so this might be all you get out of me if i decide to stop playing.

I mean your WIM is actually pretty good imo so don't stop if you can

[Gamma Emerald]

implosion

(1): Creature

katherine

(5): MariaR, implosion, Tchill13, Luca Blight, Mumble

If my eyes recall correctly there was a 5p wagon on implosion later, putting this in my iso to compress the relevant info

[Gamma Emerald]

Had a mumble wagon formed in the same way would that be hitting a villager? Because Katherine and mumble were the 2 pointed out.

btw coming back to this I feel like this post is villagery

[Gamma Emerald]

Ausuka
brassherald
Mumble
katherine
Luca Blight
implosion
tring the people not in this list

Weird
also why is Luca and brass in your lynchpool?

[Gamma Emerald]

Katherine, how much mafia experience do you have?

A medium amount I guess

Thanks, I had the thought that maybe if you were more experienced that post might be scum trying to slip in rolefishing, then I started thinking it was a bit heavyhanded so it looked like it wouldbe newb!scum rolefishing, but at this point idc for reasons I'll state at the end of this post.

Your reaction was still OMGUS.

...what is the implication of this

Well I'm not holding that stance anymore but at the time I didn't really think it was scummy I was just calling what I saw to be a bias.

Overall I feel like this post comes from town actually

[Gamma Emerald]

I like your break down.

I thought KTS was town because I see that style of play from town a lot but if he's gonna pitch a fit and begin to coast he may need to be the day one lynch because my confidence has been wavering on my read due to his down hill spiral.

Gamma come off a little odd as well. Declared I was scum based off my meta I do believe.

I'm not sure if you want MY input but of the two is believe gamma to be scum. I feel that rn scum could try to spearhead a lynch on me and brush it off as "tchill needs to play more like a towny day 1" and continue with the game. I get that vibe more from gamma than I do KTS.

Just because KTS is antagonistic doesn't mean he's scum. He's probably hard headed town which I'm willing to deal with as long as he participates.

I mean your submissiveness is pretty scummy in itself imo but with meta it's pretty frickin different from your townplay as well, but I've been having doubts of my own from your play here

[Gamma Emerald]

there's a certain line of aggressive and asshole in mafia, and a lot of these players don't know the difference. sort of why i left the toxic community here in the first place.

I can tell the difference. This game regardless of your alignment you’re being an asshole. Falsely accuse me of being a child trying to stir up conflict and saying I’ve been baiting you when I haven’t. You definitely passed over to the asshole side.

I see right through you. You decided to come in here and use aggression to be town read and it worked, however I’m smart enough to know that aggression and activity don’t always mean scum. You throw out reads that are clearly fake and act like you believe them. You double down and say you do which means

you are probably scum

.

Faking reads to generate discussion and then admitting they were fake is townie. Hopefully people come around on you and you get lynched and

none won’t even have any remorse

since you seem perfectly fine smearing my good name and using ate.

You have provided toxicity to this game and it’s why I’ve kind of stopped posting. Your presence annoys me and your reads to me don’t seem genuine nor do they make sense still.

I hate to have to ignore somebody completely but I fear that’s what I’ll have to do.

These two lines kinda don't mesh for me. If kts flips scum why would people need to have remorse? This feels like a perspective slip.
VOTE: Cedrick

[Gamma Emerald]

Killthestory seems to love to be the center of attention. I feel like he's too obvious of a choice to be mafia. Maybe it's WIFOM, but he's not blending in with everyone at all, so I'll put him in the probably town category and just label him as the person most likely to secretly be Chumba.

lolpls I don't think those two are the same people at all, they're both very aggro but their way of speaking is different. I recall Robb uses t/s and as you can see kts uses v/w

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

like, i'm not sure how i'm supposed to respond to these posts without getting frustrated. i'm getting belittled, insulted, and blatantly called stupid for attempting to push the gamestate forward and accurately lock scum to certain pools to which i believe in. i don't know these people, i've tried not to antagonize anyone, and these guys are sitting here pretending like they're superior to me.

Idk who here is acting like they're superior to you. I'm getting annoyed by your posting because you sound consistently like you think you're superior to everyone else, claiming to have solved the game in five pages, claiming that you have rock-solid knowledge of your own meta and that people who think they should be townreading you are wrong no matter what their reasoning is, consistently dismissing people on face when they say they have reads that are the opposite of yours, using terminology that's atypical of this site and then getting angry at people when they ask what you mean, hammering a hard scumread on someone with a single post for several pages and acting as though the reasoning for that scumread was so self-evident that you shouldn't need to explain it in the slightest and that anyone who didn't get it wasn't reading the game...

doesn't seem like this guy's reading the thread, but i like how calls a whole different site meta annoying and superior LOL. what a guy.

You've been coming off as very, very antagonistic, and people are responding in kind; many people aren't even being antagonistic, and you're interpreting what they're saying as antagonistic for whatever reason (e.g. 35, 58, and generally a lot of what you cited being people responding to your refusal to acknowledge that they have their own opinions).

"no u!"

You're being impossible to work with because you refuse to explain anything (though the wall is at least a start) and demand that we all figure out what you mean. I have a hard time believing that you have real internal state to your reads that isn't manufactured; I don't really read alignment info into the claim of feeling attacked but I don't see any evidence that you've formed genuine opinions and the way that your reads are pushed forward so assertively and yet are able to change with the wind (specifically tchill) is scummy.

"you're playing different, so i'm annoyed by you."

what a guy.

this is the same guy that decided to say i was stirring up drama for the sake of it, and i've been ignoring him all game as to not cause an out of game conflict. don't really feel like engaging a child who's gonna throw a tantrum whenever i don't give him attention as seen here:

I didn’t understand what you were saying. That was me asking you to clarify what you were saying. To ignore me is to be rude. That entire sentence made no sense to me.

I didn’t throw a tantrum btw but it is kind of rude to ignore somebody who’s trying to understand what you’re saying especially when we are playing a games that uses words.

yeah u right. sorry.

and yeah, that's provocative, but he's been baiting me all game. not sure what his deal is, but there's only so much i can let him say about me before i get a little angry lol. regardless, his posts engaging me and about me are a solid v.

I haven’t been baiting you and I didn’t say anything bad about you. I don’t appreciate this AtE. It’s unnecessary since I haven’t done anything to you on a personal level.

ok.

there's a certain line of aggressive and asshole in mafia, and a lot of these players don't know the difference. sort of why i left the toxic community here in the first place.

I can tell the difference. This game regardless of your alignment you’re being an asshole. Falsely accuse me of being a child trying to stir up conflict and saying I’ve been baiting you when I haven’t. You definitely passed over to the asshole side.

I see right through you. You decided to come in here and use aggression to be town read and it worked, however I’m smart enough to know that aggression and activity don’t always mean scum. You throw out reads that are clearly fake and act like you believe them. You double down and say you do which means you are probably scum.

Faking reads to generate discussion and then admitting they were fake is townie. Hopefully people come around on you and you get lynched and none won’t even have any remorse since you seem perfectly fine smearing my good name and using ate.

You have provided toxicity to this game and it’s why I’ve kind of stopped posting. Your presence annoys me and your reads to me don’t seem genuine nor do they make sense still.

I hate to have to ignore somebody completely but I fear that’s what I’ll have to do.

lol.

Killthestory seems to love to be the center of attention. I feel like he's too obvious of a choice to be mafia. Maybe it's WIFOM, but he's not blending in with everyone at all, so I'll put him in the probably town category and just label him as the person most likely to secretly be Chumba.

this guy's got a weird hard on for trying to put me down everytime he posts. seems like a cool guy to me.

tinfoil: maria, gamma, +1. wuld be funny if i called out the deepwolf and powerwolf looll.

Why are you making statements about me and maria when you mentioned us in that wall 0 times

[Gamma Emerald]

i now clearly remember why i originally left this site.

Because people don't just immediately bow down to the fact that you have solved the game?

like I legit have mountain dew out my nose right now.

I would love to throw in my thoughts on why kts left but I am allowed to say anything negative about him, despite him saying negative things about me

did you miss kts' wall where he apologized or are you just continuing to push bs

[Gamma Emerald]

implosion

(5): Creature, MariaR, Havo, Mumble, Tchill13

katherine

(1): Luca Blight

other than the mumble vote I'm liking the implo wagon quite a bit

implo/cedrick/?

[Gamma Emerald]

implosion has 22 posts and I still haven't seen anything to be considered actually fully AI, that's a bit of a concern... I'm mulling over whether I want to put him to L-1 already.

Have you found anyone who’s done scummy AI things?

I still think Maria. That's why my vote is there. I'd go into more detail, but technically I am working, so long post at work is not a great idea.

any chance you'd go with a kts or tchill wagon?

is this serious, are you scumreading both of them for real at the same time

[Gamma Emerald]

Can someone help me revitalize my townread on Cedrick?

That would be great, if I weren't scumreading him

[Gamma Emerald]

implo/cedrick/?

and Ausuka?

Eh I'm not sure I'm suspecting him, why are you?

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh...won't defend Tchill or KTS much.

You really should

[Gamma Emerald]

Katherine being town would be interesting.

I have no idea what the point of this is, also Katherine is very likely town for me after their recent big post

[Gamma Emerald]

These two lines kinda don't mesh for me. If kts flips scum why would people need to have remorse? This feels like a perspective slip.

you'd be mistaken, It is impossible for me to know is he is scum or not until he flips so I am keeping an open mind that I could be wrong. If he does flips town I definitely won't have remorse about it though because is playstyle is toxic to me.

Well why are you telling everyone not to have remorse, rather than just saying if he flips town you wouldn't? Feels like you're handwaving responsibility for everyone who joins you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Creature, Tchill13

Candidates For Promotion

Cedrick,

Katherine

, killthestory, MariaR

Watchlist For Meaniness

implosion

, Havo, brassherald, Gamma Emerald

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

Luca Blight

, Mumble

(If I tried to explain all these at once it would be a really long post and it'd also take a really long time to make, but I'll try and explain any read if someone wants me to.)

What about the bolded names?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still don’t know why so many people town read me.

Ech this feels like scum trying to fake paranoia or smth

[Gamma Emerald]

Well why are you telling everyone not to have remorse, rather than just saying if he flips town you wouldn't? Feels like you're handwaving responsibility for everyone who joins you.

why didn't you ask me to clarify my statement? there is a very obvious typo in that statement. I wasn't telling others to not have remorse, i was saying I wouldn't

How was I to know?

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, my posts show me trying to lynch my scum reads, giving the names of other people I find scummy, and trying to sort a player who is trying to not let himself get sorted. That is all town AI stuff so do you want to try again?

Well if you think you're so towny,

why are you so skeptical of townreads on you

?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well why are you telling everyone not to have remorse, rather than just saying if he flips town you wouldn't? Feels like you're handwaving responsibility for everyone who joins you.

why didn't you ask me to clarify my statement?

there is a very obvious typo in that statement. I wasn't telling others to not have remorse, i was saying I wouldn't

How was I to know?

my mistake. I bolded the part that you clearly missed. You were supposed to ask first before assuming. you know what happens when you assume.

I didn't miss it, thanks for the discredit attempt tho I'll take the spew read for when you flip scum. Why should I ask questions when it seems like your post was fine in the first place aside from the perceived perspective slip? It wouldn't really do any good to ask "oh hey, did you mean to imply kts why town therefore implicating yourself as scum by knowing his alignment?", now would it?

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah, my posts show me trying to lynch my scum reads, giving the names of other people I find scummy, and trying to sort a player who is trying to not let himself get sorted. That is all town AI stuff so do you want to try again?

Well if you think you're so towny,

why are you so skeptical of townreads on you

?

i don't think i am towny, I know I am. My issue is people are calling me town but i haven't seen anyone explain what they think that way. I vanished for a long series of pages and came back in asking about non game related stuff and people still had me as town. Nobody once asked me why i was fluff posting or what my current thoughts of the game. That is why I was bugged out.

Well how about the fact people don't just toss reads because someone makes a few fluff posts.

[Gamma Emerald]

I didn't miss it, thanks for the discredit attempt

it wasn't a discredit attempt. you asked how you were to know, I had already said you should have asked because you should have asked. if you think you came out of that exchange discredited, I guess you only have yourself to blame. You should have asked me first before you assumed.

"I should have asked because I should have asked". That's the best logic I've seen in my entire life. And I just

love

that you're blaming

me

for the fact you said I missed part of your post when I very much didn't. As I said, it's kinda stupid to ask someone if they're scum, because you should be getting one answer ever. I figured it wasn't a typo, but an attempt to handwave responsibility for the mislynch you were trying to push. Why should I have thought "oh this post with no apparently spelling or grammar errors has a typo in it!"? Seems rather daft don't you think?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well how about the fact people don't just toss reads because someone makes a few fluff posts.

they don't? I know I certainly have seen that before.

Show me, it was probably someone being stupid.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why should I ask questions when it seems like your post was fine in the first place aside from the perceived perspective slip? It wouldn't really do any good to ask "oh hey, did you mean to imply kts why town therefore implicating yourself as scum by knowing his alignment?", now would it?

If you are town you absolutely should make sure you understand the post before you form an opinion off of it. Clearly that typo changes everything. Yet somehow it doesn’t seem like it’s changed anything.

I did understand the post from what I could see in it. That typo maybe changes things but I have no way to tell if you're being genuine about keeping the possibility of kts being town in mind or you were just covering your tracks to not look so suspicious. In addition there's a post for kts that you really should have engaged with but you didn't and it says to me from the specific post you skipped and what you said after that you don't care about givnign kts a fair shake, you just want to make him look bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah, Mumble is prob just lynchbait town.

if you think mumble is lynchbait why wouldnt you think the previous wagon, katherine, is scum?

Cos mumble wasn't the wagon that came after?

[Gamma Emerald]

im not gonna lynch KTS, MAriaR, havo, cedrick or gamma day 1.

I'll be on the leading wagon of any player not named though.

Why are you townreading those people then, enough to be cinfident enough to not lynch them today?

[Gamma Emerald]

I should have asked because I should have asked".

Exactly right. There was clearly a typo. Instead of clarifying first you jumped to a conclusion to shade me. If you are town that’s just bad play

It's not "jumping to conclusions". It's me looking at what is in front of me and making a judgment. How was I supposed to know there was a typo when the post was fine wrt spelling and grammar? I'm not some super-psychic. And it's really sweet to see someone not even recognizing a logical fallacy when it's pointed out for them. Your statement was circular logic.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well how about the fact people don't just toss reads because someone makes a few fluff posts.

they don't? I know I certainly have seen that before.

Show me, it was probably someone being stupid.

Wish I could.

Then I don't care. Examples or it didn't happen.

[Gamma Emerald]

That typo maybe changes things but I have no way to tell if you're being genuine about keeping the possibility of kts being town in mind

Every player should be doing this. Town or scum pretending to be town. So this doesn’t make any sense to me but whatever

I get that but it's possible you forgot to make that apparent.

[Gamma Emerald]

im not gonna lynch KTS, MAriaR, havo, cedrick or gamma day 1.

I'll be on the leading wagon of any player not named though.

Why are you townreading those people then, enough to be cinfident enough to not lynch them today?

im TR'ing KTS and Maria. im confident to be able to sort havo and cedrick later day phases. Gamma is on the fence but he's active and trying and im leaning town there.

...tfw someone doesn't pay attention to the poster's name

[Gamma Emerald]

I should have asked because I should have asked".

Exactly right. There was clearly a typo. Instead of clarifying first you jumped to a conclusion to shade me. If you are town that’s just bad play

It's not "jumping to conclusions". It's me looking at what is in front of me and making a judgment. How was I supposed to know there was a typo when the post was fine wrt spelling and grammar? I'm not some super-psychic. And it's really sweet to see someone not even recognizing a logical fallacy when it's pointed out for them. Your statement was circular logic.

That one sentence made no sense.

Hopefully people come around on you and you get lynched and none won’t even have any remorse since you seem perfectly fine smearing my good name and using ate.

None won’t even have remorse makes sense to use?

There was clearly a typo. You assumed I meant “no one” but that isn’t what I typed. That wasn’t even what I meant.

I guess I misremembered it then. Sorry, but given future event I'm nowhere near giving you any slack for this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well how about the fact people don't just toss reads because someone makes a few fluff posts.

they don't? I know I certainly have seen that before.

Show me, it was probably someone being stupid.

Wish I could.

Then I don't care. Examples or it didn't happen.

Townie shouldn’t be so close minded. If you are town here you are not only doing yourself but everyone else a disservice.

Not to mention that’s a terrible attitude.

I’ll just ignore you now cause you clearly aren’t trying to be open minded.

If you tried to find examples I'd check into them. You didn't even try, so why should I give your point any of my time?

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

like, i'm not sure how i'm supposed to respond to these posts without getting frustrated. i'm getting belittled, insulted, and blatantly called stupid for attempting to push the gamestate forward and accurately lock scum to certain pools to which i believe in. i don't know these people, i've tried not to antagonize anyone, and these guys are sitting here pretending like they're superior to me.

Idk who here is acting like they're superior to you. I'm getting annoyed by your posting because you sound consistently like you think you're superior to everyone else, claiming to have solved the game in five pages, claiming that you have rock-solid knowledge of your own meta and that people who think they should be townreading you are wrong no matter what their reasoning is, consistently dismissing people on face when they say they have reads that are the opposite of yours, using terminology that's atypical of this site and then getting angry at people when they ask what you mean, hammering a hard scumread on someone with a single post for several pages and acting as though the reasoning for that scumread was so self-evident that you shouldn't need to explain it in the slightest and that anyone who didn't get it wasn't reading the game...

doesn't seem like this guy's reading the thread, but i like how calls a whole different site meta annoying and superior LOL. what a guy.

You've been coming off as very, very antagonistic, and people are responding in kind; many people aren't even being antagonistic, and you're interpreting what they're saying as antagonistic for whatever reason (e.g. 35, 58, and generally a lot of what you cited being people responding to your refusal to acknowledge that they have their own opinions).

"no u!"

You're being impossible to work with because you refuse to explain anything (though the wall is at least a start) and demand that we all figure out what you mean. I have a hard time believing that you have real internal state to your reads that isn't manufactured; I don't really read alignment info into the claim of feeling attacked but I don't see any evidence that you've formed genuine opinions and the way that your reads are pushed forward so assertively and yet are able to change with the wind (specifically tchill) is scummy.

"you're playing different, so i'm annoyed by you."

what a guy.

this is the same guy that decided to say i was stirring up drama for the sake of it, and i've been ignoring him all game as to not cause an out of game conflict. don't really feel like engaging a child who's gonna throw a tantrum whenever i don't give him attention as seen here:

I didn’t understand what you were saying. That was me asking you to clarify what you were saying. To ignore me is to be rude. That entire sentence made no sense to me.

I didn’t throw a tantrum btw but it is kind of rude to ignore somebody who’s trying to understand what you’re saying especially when we are playing a games that uses words.

yeah u right. sorry.

and yeah, that's provocative, but he's been baiting me all game. not sure what his deal is, but there's only so much i can let him say about me before i get a little angry lol. regardless, his posts engaging me and about me are a solid v.

I haven’t been baiting you and I didn’t say anything bad about you. I don’t appreciate this AtE. It’s unnecessary since I haven’t done anything to you on a personal level.

ok.

there's a certain line of aggressive and asshole in mafia, and a lot of these players don't know the difference. sort of why i left the toxic community here in the first place.

I can tell the difference. This game regardless of your alignment you’re being an asshole. Falsely accuse me of being a child trying to stir up conflict and saying I’ve been baiting you when I haven’t. You definitely passed over to the asshole side.

I see right through you. You decided to come in here and use aggression to be town read and it worked, however I’m smart enough to know that aggression and activity don’t always mean scum. You throw out reads that are clearly fake and act like you believe them. You double down and say you do which means you are probably scum.

Faking reads to generate discussion and then admitting they were fake is townie. Hopefully people come around on you and you get lynched and none won’t even have any remorse since you seem perfectly fine smearing my good name and using ate.

You have provided toxicity to this game and it’s why I’ve kind of stopped posting. Your presence annoys me and your reads to me don’t seem genuine nor do they make sense still.

I hate to have to ignore somebody completely but I fear that’s what I’ll have to do.

lol.

Killthestory seems to love to be the center of attention. I feel like he's too obvious of a choice to be mafia. Maybe it's WIFOM, but he's not blending in with everyone at all, so I'll put him in the probably town category and just label him as the person most likely to secretly be Chumba.

this guy's got a weird hard on for trying to put me down everytime he posts. seems like a cool guy to me.

tinfoil: maria, gamma, +1. wuld be funny if i called out the deepwolf and powerwolf looll.

Cedrick, this is your last chance to save yourself: give me your thoughts on this post, as I believe you missed it.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you tried to find examples I'd check into them. You didn't even try, so why should I give your point any of my time?

I can’t give you example cause it would out my main. Your response was essentially F you you are lying.

It’s sort of stupid thing to lie about so the fact you even needed examples is bad. You don’t have to see things first hand to believe something is possible

Why are you hiding your main then? If you can give me a good enough reason I'll let you go on the examples.

[Gamma Emerald]

Cedrick, this is your last chance to save yourself: give me your thoughts on this post, as I believe you missed it.

I don’t need to save myself as I’m not in trouble. Even if I was, I’d rather drown. I’m ignoring kts’s posts ever since I got warned by the mod for crossing the line when all I did was defend myself. I asked the mod if kts got warned and I got no response. No response in this case means no. I really don’t want to be force replaced or modkilled over accidentally responding the wrong way to him so the safer play is don’t respond at all.

Holy shit wtf
that's some seriously double standarding by the mod

[Gamma Emerald]

I have a question but it might be rulebreaking honestly.

[Gamma Emerald]

Creature I've yet to see a case on Ausuka

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: implosion
idk if I'm townreading Cedrick now but I feel like such a boob for going after him when the mod gave such unfair treatment towards him so there's no way in hell I'm gonna keep voting him today.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I'm not voting mumble unless someone can give me a case for why he's scum rather than bad town because honestly I don't even see his play as that bad, sure he's been quiet but he's at least given stances

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: implosion
idk if I'm townreading Cedrick now but I feel like such a boob for going after him when the mod gave such unfair treatment towards him so there's no way in hell I'm gonna keep voting him today.

No no. I don’t get special treatment for that.

I still feel like shit anyway, you were probably feeling rather attacked by that already

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh...Tchill hopped off and back on.

Lowered my blood pressure by a few dozen mmHg. I've been trying hard this game not to lose my temper.

well that's really nice cos you haven't shown much emotion at all up to this point

[Gamma Emerald]

creature is lock v

Unfortunately yes. Creature never flips scum here.

Ewwwwww this might be enough to justify a scumread on Ausuka, why "unfortunately"?

[Gamma Emerald]

/vote implosion

uses progression as a means of scumreading me lol. progression equals bad articulation. has no effective meaning on anyones alignments.

similarly, votes on the wagon i hard pushed after shading with some back street shady fucking reasoning because he's trying to live.

the dude also uses ate to try to get us off. anything and everything he can pull, hes gonna try it lol.

This is pretty bad.

1. I disagree - scum have to fake their reads, therefore their progression has to be forced in a way Town's isn't, but even if you were correct about this, being wrong on theory =/= scummy.

2. Just because he scumreads you doesn't mean he can't also scumread someone you vote. Like, if one of your scumreads has a bigger wagon than the other I think it's pretty natural to vote the one with the bigger wagon.

3. You have also used AtE yourself this game. It's quite understandable given the lack of reasoning behind people's votes against him.

I don't like Garciaing but kts has a point with point one. I recall getting suspected a lot in the past for leaps in my progression of reads, when I didn't take care to articulate how the read morphed. Implosion was in one of the earliest instances of this, Mini 1838. Honestly it's somewhat concerning he didn't think of that himself.

[Gamma Emerald]

Garciaing?

Yeah I get that it can't always be applied to those who don't properly explain their reads/thoughts in the first place, but it doesn't mean it should be disregarded completely.

For example, Ausaku's progression on me is strange - I was in her top tier and now in her bottom purely for my Katherine vote.

Okay then. Also Garciaing is answering a question for someone.

[Gamma Emerald]

[quote="In post 590,
396 - Havo, you're over-emphasising my

'tunneling

' this game - it was a few pages in, and by the time you made this post I had already flipped my read on Tchill, which you fail to acknowledge or take into account.

I disagree, I merely stated it was cause for concern. I said it would probably play out. I didn’t even bother voting you for it.

[quote="In post 590
487 - Havo randomly throwing shade on me?
[/quote]

I’m asking Gamma his opinion on the chance of you being a possible candidate for his 3rd scum read. How is that “Random” after I had already stated I had concerns about your slot? And how is that throwing shade at you?

And it looks like I was so concerned here, that after Gamma ignored my question, I didn’t bother asking him again.[/quote]
wait what
ask it again I may have missed it, also that quote is hecka broken

[Gamma Emerald]

[quote="In post 458

implo/cedrick/?

Your thoughts on Luca in that last spot?[/quote]
I mean it's possible he hasn't done anything to significantly strike me as towny but I'm not sure why you scumread him? Just give me the initial case you had at the beginning please.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ah. Also your issue with the broken posts is a deleted right side of the opening quote tag.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: havo

Was hping to see some logic behind this

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I’m doing I the normal way from now on.

you're just struggling lol.

hmmmm?

[Gamma Emerald]

somebody tell me the difference in mumble, katherine and havo. the difference that makes havo scum but the other two town.

First off Katherine is a townread, but Havo has also been very active and engaged while Mumble hasn't, and Katherine has been engaged but not active.

[Gamma Emerald]

wtf i just realized someone fucked with my wiki months ago lol

huh
what made you check

[Gamma Emerald]

TChill please look past the activity and look at Katehrine's content please, thoughts will be required

[Gamma Emerald]

TChill please look past the activity and look at Katehrine's content please, thoughts will be required

Activity isn't AI. It is required to show the rest of the game that you're town though. I'm talking Strong TR. So while the "content" hasn't been scummy I'd like to continue with a group ik is going to play the game. That can be transparently town when i need them to be. I can't trust Katherine or Mumble atm but would love to play with them if they actually decide to participate. (Tone reads only seem to be made when it comes to players with low content. If you can read someone on tone that's great. I can't.)

When Katherine has participated she's been pretty towny imo, that's why I wanted you to read her posts, so that I could try to get you to see that, but you seem to be having more fun discrediting her so u-do-u
VOTE: TChill13

[Gamma Emerald]

TChill please look past the activity and look at Katehrine's content please, thoughts will be required

Activity isn't AI. It is required to show the rest of the game that you're town though. I'm talking Strong TR. So while the "content" hasn't been scummy I'd like to continue with a group ik is going to play the game. That can be transparently town when i need them to be. I can't trust Katherine or Mumble atm but would love to play with them if they actually decide to participate. (Tone reads only seem to be made when it comes to players with low content. If you can read someone on tone that's great. I can't.)

When Katherine has participated she's been pretty towny imo, that's why I wanted you to read her posts, so that I could try to get you to see that, but you seem to be having more fun discrediting her so u-do-u
VOTE: TChill13

discredit? i've done no such thing. I simply disagreed that i'm ok with calling him town based off his content. I read it. It's not good enough for me. Not once did i talk about his actually play in a negative manner. I think it's great you can declare a strong TR on such low content. I can't. Have i definitively called katherine scum? I haven't.

If you want to vote me that's fine. Explain correctly why you're voting me though. I mean if you want to of course. I'm not having any of that BS though.

I think you're not taking the proper time to sort Katherine because you already know alignment and don't have to try.

[Gamma Emerald]

somebody tell me the difference in mumble, katherine and havo. the difference that makes havo scum but the other two town.

First off Katherine is a townread, but Havo has also been very active and engaged while Mumble hasn't, and Katherine has been engaged but not active.

You left out the part about why I’m scum.

LOL I was honestly distracted arguing with him about his suspicion on Katherine to pay attention to the rest of the post

[Gamma Emerald]

to me it looks like you just want to policy lynch them but you don't want to actually call it that because you saw the negative attention i got from it.

implosion Mar 10, 11:07pm Mar 12, 07:58pm 0 days 18 hours 24
Ausuka Mar 11, 04:49am Mar 13, 03:36am 0 days 10 hours 20
Mumble Mar 10, 09:50pm Mar 12, 08:39pm 0 days 17 hours 13
katherine Mar 10, 09:42pm Mar 12, 03:04am 1 day 11 hours 9

These 4 people should all be ashamed of themselves regardless of alignment but ESPECIALLY if they are town.


I'm down for a lurker policy lynch, but we still have time so if i can lynch a scum read first, i'd rather do that.

no thanks

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm aware of my play. Yes I was making easy pushes to get the day over with. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm trying to lynch what's best for town.

I don't scum read mumble or katherine. I don't have a read on them at all and I don't think I will anytime soon because of lack of activity. From my experience someone pulls VT and they just don't want to play. I've also seen PRs lurk to avoid the NK and I've seen scum slide right on through so it's literally NAI. I'm against letting them be NAI for the entirety of the game and would like to deal with such a thing now instead of later.

I'm more positive that lynching one of these slots will help us more than risking a mislynch of a player thats actually contributing but we think is scum.

I will compromise on whatever lynch I see necessary.

Of the "active players" KTS and Cedric are on the board for me atm.

At least GAMMA is pursuing things aggressively with passion. Luca just seems town to me.

I'm always always always against policy. This isn't policy. This is "they could be scum and from an objective point of view mislynching them early is better than mislynching players that are giving effort." You can call it policy but I won't.

Why did you all-caps my name?

[Gamma Emerald]

creature is lock v

Unfortunately yes. Creature never flips scum here.

Ewwwwww this might be enough to justify a scumread on Ausuka, why "unfortunately"?

It'd be a LOT easier if I could scumread the person who is voting me and refuses to give reasons for it.

Mhm I guess that's fair

[Gamma Emerald]

3. You have also used AtE yourself this game. It's quite understandable given the lack of reasoning behind people's votes against him.

I don't like Garciaing but kts has a point with point one. I recall getting suspected a lot in the past for leaps in my progression of reads, when I didn't take care to articulate how the read morphed. Implosion was in one of the earliest instances of this, Mini 1838. Honestly it's somewhat concerning he didn't think of that himself.

So Implo is meant to remember mislynching you in a game a year and a half ago, and then thinking that that instance of being wrong about your progression makes progression an invalid reason to scumread someone?

Okay first of all just because I said I was pushed for something doesn't mean you can autopilot to "oh he got lynched that game". I actually got nightkilled after claiming at L-1,

thank you very little

. And I feel like he'd have it in his mafia memory banks that "bad progression =/= scumfuck"

[Gamma Emerald]

@mod just replace me, I'm completely checked out of this game.

Wait where did this come from?

[Gamma Emerald]

@mod just replace me, I'm completely checked out of this game.

don't really blame you. this day has gone on forever and we aren't even close to lynching somebody.

How long has this day been again? Just curious.

[Gamma Emerald]

nevermind checked for myself. 3 days. 3 days and Cedrick says it's gone on forever.

[Gamma Emerald]

nevermind checked for myself. 3 days. 3 days and Cedrick says it's gone on forever.

that's it? holy fuck it feels like a month.

if we are going to take the full 14 days i'm probably going to replace out. We are like 30 pages in 3 days

Okay seriously who is your main, because this feels like a weird comment. Why is that so many for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

3. You have also used AtE yourself this game. It's quite understandable given the lack of reasoning behind people's votes against him.

I don't like Garciaing but kts has a point with point one. I recall getting suspected a lot in the past for leaps in my progression of reads, when I didn't take care to articulate how the read morphed. Implosion was in one of the earliest instances of this, Mini 1838. Honestly it's somewhat concerning he didn't think of that himself.

So Implo is meant to remember mislynching you in a game a year and a half ago, and then thinking that that instance of being wrong about your progression makes progression an invalid reason to scumread someone?

Okay first of all just because I said I was pushed for something doesn't mean you can autopilot to "oh he got lynched that game". I actually got nightkilled after claiming at L-1,

thank you very little

. And I feel like he'd have it in his mafia memory banks that "bad progression =/= scumfuck"

Sorry gamma <3

Still not sure why he's supposed to remember that though? I mean I suppose it's possible he remembered a wagon that didn't lead to a lynch from 1.5 years ago, but I'm not sure why you think it's suspicious that he didn't.

Well he remembered a game from within five years so I feel like he'd remember that one too? Especially given it's his only game with me so far before this one.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma I didn't mean to all caps your name lol.

Ah. It felt like an attack and I didn't want to go ballistic off of what might be nothing so I decided to calmly ask before taking offense.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really get the Havo votes on page 25. On that page I can only see playstyle-related things.

you don't understand the process of pressuring somebody?

I was under the impression the votes were because Havo was being scummy? I mean even if it's pressure you still pressure the person you think is scummy right?

Well yeah. Havo is kind of scummy. Hence the need to pressure him. I question anyone who is able to town read him cause I don’t see much town AI stuf

Same goes for

chumba

and Katherine.

kek

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: katherine
Too many already.
btw I'm super excited about this playerlist

I don't think there's enough reason to scum read mumble. I do appreciate activity but I feel like you're definitely trying to take control of the game and I also don't like how you pointed out you could be aggressive as scum also.

VOTE: mumble

VOTE: Tchill

Kinda crazy that gamma opened up with a vote on Katherine and the two times he voted me was for pushing either Katherine or mumble...

Missed this. Kinda silly of you to think I couldn't change my read on Katherine at all. As for the mumble push that was a contradiction that I was voting your for.

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh, sorta skeptical doing Havo because he said he had bad day 1s.

Ah yes, gotta love Day 1s.

Here we have another typical Day 1on MS to me.

Well I'll send you this as my picks for scum today: implosion, TChill, mumble. If one of those flips scum you have to keep a more open mind for day 1 in the future.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: katherine
Too many already.
btw I'm super excited about this playerlist

I don't think there's enough reason to scum read mumble. I do appreciate activity but I feel like you're definitely trying to take control of the game and I also don't like how you pointed out you could be aggressive as scum also.

VOTE: mumble

VOTE: Tchill

Kinda crazy that gamma opened up with a vote on Katherine and the two times he voted me was for pushing either Katherine or mumble...

Missed this. Kinda silly of you to think I couldn't change my read on Katherine at all. As for the mumble push that was a contradiction that I was voting your for.

I've seen scum distance early by placing his vote on his partner before. I'm not accusing you of that I'm just saying it's a possibility. Then I looked at Katherine's join date which is pretty recent and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a case where you distanced early but are now defending your scum buddy hard to get past day 1.

Obviously I'm not pushing you for changing your stance on your first vote. I'm pushing you because of how hard you're defending the person you first voted. Hard enough to vote people specifically because they're voting Katherine.

Why would I defend a newb!scum buddy like that? Also you wanna see my distancing game as scum go look at Mini 1911. There's no way simply vote is sufficient distancing for me.

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone besides havo have meta with tchil?

You haven't seen my posts referring to meta on him?

[Gamma Emerald]

Anyone besides havo have meta with tchil?

You haven't seen my posts referring to meta on him?

I guess not. I’ll look through them.

Does his theory of only voting your top scum read make sense to you from
him?

I guess? Idk I'll have to check a specific game later but I will say it's pretty daft on it's own because that doesn't take into account wagon viability and not wanting to run someone up too high

[Gamma Emerald]

lolpls I don't recall you being one of the ones to push me on that, jimny christmas for remembering some rando <5 years old game so well you don't remember that one well at all? I got an inno on you n1! Anyway what happened was I started doubting my townread of Grendel and came uder fire for it because there was "no progression". I ended having to explain the missing steps in my logic. And wtf how can progression have multiple meanings, does it just have those because it's convenient for you?

[Gamma Emerald]

lolpls I don't recall you being one of the ones to push me on that, jimny christmas for remembering some rando <5 years old game so well you don't remember that one well at all? I got an inno on you n1! Anyway what happened was I started doubting my townread of Grendel and came uder fire for it because there was "no progression". I ended having to explain the missing steps in my logic. And wtf how can progression have multiple meanings, does it just have those because it's convenient for you?

The main thing I remember from that game is me tunneling boring. And I mean. Reads progression has one meaning but can refer to a lot of different things... reads changing, or strengthening, or flipping based on different pieces of information. And a tool being wrong once doesn't mean that it's not worth using. There's a reason fferyllt has the title titan of trajectory. Trajectory is basically another word for progressions.

Hmm. Didn't know trajectory = progression, thought trajectory had more to do with gamestate overall

[Gamma Emerald]

Well I'll probably be checking out for tongiht, bye

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Mumble
heck it

[Gamma Emerald]

i understand, man, and i'm cognizant of that now that i realize you truly had no idea what you were doing (and i mean that in the nicest way possible) with no ulterior scum agenda. i would like to know still how much experience you have with mafia in general though because from your join date, i thought you'd have a lot more.

VOTE: Mumble
this almost always hits a wolf.

btw iirc mariar has played a game where we were both wolves, but that was a while ago.

I beg your pardon?

[Gamma Emerald]

I beg your pardon?

I told you he’s scum. Nobody listened

Did I say I suspected him yet? I actually find his explanation satisfactory.

[Gamma Emerald]

Super sick today

I'll catch up in the morning.

oof sorry man
I'd like it if you could explain your reads but as it stands I have no reason to actually TR you other than value judgments (what I'm saying here is the only reason I was TRing him earlier I feel was based on how I saw him in comparison and by the light he was put in by others).

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey we're both online, wanna talk?

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you make of TChill's defense of Havo?

[Gamma Emerald]

It was pretty weird - as Tchill admitted himself, he's being hypocritical criticising people for naked votes when he's been one of the worst for such.

Also the way he lumped Havo, Katherine and Mumble into the same pile and asked why Havo is scum and the other two aren't - I think all three can be independently scumread for different things, the possible exception being Katherine who simply hasn't posted much.

Tchill I'm generally town-leaning for activity and transparenct at the moment, though.

Okay. I wasn't sure what to make of it myself. I agree that all three being lumped together was weird, because they were quite different to me overall in terms of read and how I perceived them.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey gamma, can you summarise the game so far for me.

Game started out fine, then people started getting upset with each other and the mod warned some but not others, then the game sorta settled into apathy and we're now going on Mumble because he's lurking and when he does post he doesn't explain himself

[Gamma Emerald]

Why is it not d2 with Gamma having scumflipped already?

Because I'm not scum?

[Gamma Emerald]

What's really fun is hopkirk asking that question just to scumread me. Feels really fake.

[Gamma Emerald]

What's really fun is hopkirk asking that question just to scumread me. Feels really fake.

I'm flattered that you think I could read the game in the ten minutes between me subbing in and asking that.

whatever. Why even are you scumreading who you are? Real nice to just come in, go "oops caught up already y'all are scum kthxbye"

[Gamma Emerald]

I must've missed that. Still, you didn't explain it in your full list so it's still the same vibe

[Gamma Emerald]

I won't be explaining anything tonight due to time, but I'm sure I'll be explaining my reads eventually.
It's too much to hope that people will agree with them automatically.

Who's scum for you right now?

My strongest scumreads are TChill and implosion, but mumble is in there because I kinda suspect him and I feel like he's a very easy suspicion that scum can easily rest their laurels on

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: creature

WHAT?

Good call on not lynching mumble guys.

Katherine and mumble have provided great catch up's.

WHAT?!??

Have you gone senile

[Gamma Emerald]

Super sick today

I'll catch up in the morning.

Mumble's last post.
TChill what the fuck?

[Gamma Emerald]

355 was Katherine's catch-up

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I guess they're not caught up now but in a sense I am right

[Gamma Emerald]

Ausuka why so defensive?

[Gamma Emerald]

Like if your definition of "defensive" is responding to someone posting a long (case/whatever you want to call it) about you, then sure, I'm defensive.

But it's very consistently what you're doing. I'm seeing very little analysis of anything else at all at this point.

[Gamma Emerald]

Like if your definition of "defensive" is responding to someone posting a long (case/whatever you want to call it) about you, then sure, I'm defensive.

But it's very consistently what you're doing. I'm seeing very little analysis of anything else at all at this point.

I literally have TWO POSTS of that. Seriously dude.

idk I thought I saw more

[Gamma Emerald]

I finished rereading Gamma's iso and was about to post 'Gamma can be town'. Nice timing.

Curious. What was different between you what you saw in catch-up and in the ISO?

[Gamma Emerald]

My change in read is based off of also rereading in more detail a game we played together that finished yesterday where he was scum.

Okay. I wasn't sure how you whether you used that when you first came in so thanks for stating this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Creature what do you think of TChill/Havo/mumble/Katherine right now?

[Gamma Emerald]

Tchill13 = Robbnva/Derpy Hooves/Jake from State Farm?

No.

Indeed. I believe Teech was in Mini 1934 as himself?
Also to add to the list of names Robbnva has: Chumba

[Gamma Emerald]

Tchill13 = Robbnva/Derpy Hooves/Jake from State Farm?

Tchill is Robbnva?

LMAO.

No, no, no,

It’s quite obvious you guys couldn’t recognize a rob alt if you were playing with one.

I know how robb is I can

[Gamma Emerald]

So I have a stuuuuuupid theory. So there's actually a thread in mafia discussion called something like "ethics of scumplay". Basically the point of it is to argue whether questionable things can be excused in the name of scumplay such as toxicity. Here's the application: what if only Cedrick got warned for being toxic because KTS is scum and has that leeway to behave however he wants?

[Gamma Emerald]

and btw I'm not saying I believe this

yet

, but I am willing to hold it as something to consider

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes my frustration isn’t AI.

I think I want to add gamma to my lynch list

For making a theory? And I didn't know that you got warned for

that

, and honestly that's the mod having a thin skin. Now that I know that I'm not really thinking that is the case anymore, but sure, scumread me before I actually respond to your correction.

[Gamma Emerald]

No. I felt like you were buddying me earlier and some of your posts were weird. Like missing tchill’s obviously sarcastic post.

It’s a gut thing really.

I don't think I missed a TChill post?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: creature

WHAT?

Good call on not lynching mumble guys.

Katherine and mumble have provided great catch up's.

WHAT?!??

Have you gone senile

Oh this one
Well given that he was voting Creature I took him very seriously. Voting Creature is pretty bad.

[Gamma Emerald]

Activity. He's the

only

player you can pretty much always activity read. He lurks as scum, 100% of the time. Only time he broke meta as scum he got lynched anyway due to the game being a lovers game. You need to be careful using it initially because he can easily get bored as town as well, but after you get to know him it should be second nature.

[Gamma Emerald]

Activity. He's the

only

player you can pretty much always activity read. He lurks as scum, 100% of the time. Only time he broke meta as scum he got lynched anyway due to the game being a lovers game. You need to be careful using it initially because he can easily get bored as town as well, but after you get to know him it should be second nature.

Activity... ACTIVITY!!! I'm dead lol. Good joke. This guy isn't lock town. He's activity read just like mumble and Katherine.

Every time I've seen mumble play scum he's lurked. So guess what I think? Mumble is lock scum. He's one of the few players you can pretty much always activity read.

If this is true then I'll happily sheep you. I'm willing to put my money where my reads are.

[Gamma Emerald]

haha...kts is right. Childish.

This is really confusing: what is he right

about

? Do you know how the quote function works?

[Gamma Emerald]

Current scumpool is (Implosion/Luca/Cedrick/Mumble/Tchill). Can someone towncase one of them.

Swap me for katherine and I am with you.

Why do you SR Katherine?

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's lynch mumble

[Gamma Emerald]

Not sure mumble is totally cleared off his claim but I don't want to lynch him without a cc so
VOTE: implosion

[Gamma Emerald]

Checking my post count is a pretty lazy way to read me.

Like, I think I'm posting below average rn.

It's not post count, it's whether you're actually producing meaningful content. There is nuance to it but you're still the easiest person to read on this site.

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes, Katherine and MariaR are two of my current townreads off the top of my head

[Gamma Emerald]

I said off the top of my head. Cedrick is a townlean but I think there's miltiple ways that can go.

[Gamma Emerald]

This should have some juicy VCA

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler:

katherine (5): MariaR, implosion, Tchill13, Luca Blight, Mumble

implosion (5): Creature, MariaR, Havo, Mumble, Tchill13

Mumble (5): Ausuka, Killthestory, Tchill13, Cedrick, implosion

Mumble (5): Tchill13, implosion, Havo, Gamma Emerald, Cedrick
Ausuka (3): katherine, Creature, Luca Blight

implosion (7): Hopkirk, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Havo, Mumble, Killthestory, Luca Blight

Luca Blight (5): Ausuka, MariaR, katherine, Tchill13, implosion

now I suck at vca but right now I want to say scum is probably one of asuka or tchill if not both.

luca can be town, sadly hopkirk you don't get any town points for being on the wagon but you do get a reprieve from day 2 lynch because you didn't really do anything to make it happen and you weren't on the first wagon.

VOTE: asuka

this is the best chance of a scum flip imo.

p.edit - it literally has nothing to do about that.

that strips the benefit of seeing timing from the votecounts. I'm going to look at the posted VCs when I get a chance and analyze those.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I believe LB's claim

[Gamma Emerald]

Not sure how useful VCA is right now. The implo wagon was really quick and the lack of resistance to it leads me to believe that scum were probably bussing implo. I don't see how my d1 voting makes me scum here.
That said my d1 reads were probably still disastarous and I'm just going to refresh them at this point.

There were multiple implo wagons so they early ones should divulge some info

[Gamma Emerald]

That's the hammer btw.

I'm just gonna adopt a mumble/Maria kind of playstyle for the rest of this game - that's about the level of effort this game deserves.

And I find it odd that he specifically said mariaR instead of Katherine. Maria and Katherine were both on his wagon.

I was talking about playstyle; nothing to do with their alignment.

Yeah and I found Katherine and mumbles to be more alike.

This is honestly true, what the hell did you mean Luca?

[Gamma Emerald]

Tchill is on my list also. I just feel asuka is scummier and looking at how they mentioned each other especially asuka caking mumble stupid or whatever for voting implosion, I like asuka for scum better.

After looking at your vca I believe your ausuka tchill scum reads are associations are they not?

Implosion and ausuka are the only wagons I weren't on. So let's say I or ausuka flip town. Does that automatically clear the other in your opinion?

I can’t really answer that. I need an actual flip. I’ll need to see who was on and off the wagon, I’ll need to see who dies. Lots of things factor in to me reevaluating

If TChill flips scum I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call Ausuka town

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's odd you were reluctant to mention Katherine.

Odd in an AI way?

Is it odd that the lowest poster in this game wasn't the one who jumped to the forefront of my mind when making that comment?

If you consider you were Comparing a player to the 2nd lowest poster in the game and it wasn't Katherine. Yes it is odd.

I wasn't comparing activity, I was comparing their relative lack of thought to the game.

You're still unclear about whether you mean this is an AI sort of

'odd

' or just a random thing you wanted to bring up.

Talk to me about why you felt that way about Maria?

[Gamma Emerald]

Nobody else thinks anything of Luca not mentioningKatherine?

I think if they give a good explanation for what they were thinking it's not scummy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca, Katherine, Maria, ausuka

Luca is a slight SR but what his flip confirms is pretty valuable.

Katherine is my biggest outright SR because of the wagon he was on and low content.

Maria pretty much the same.

Ausuka only because of his position on the wagon. I feel that cedrick is town and I'm glad to see ausuka stated that also.

...

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's odd you were reluctant to mention Katherine.

Odd in an AI way?

Is it odd that the lowest poster in this game wasn't the one who jumped to the forefront of my mind when making that comment?

If you consider you were Comparing a player to the 2nd lowest poster in the game and it wasn't Katherine. Yes it is odd.

I wasn't comparing activity, I was comparing their relative lack of thought to the game.

You're still unclear about whether you mean this is an AI sort of

'odd

' or just a random thing you wanted to bring up.

Talk to me about why you felt that way about Maria?

She doesn't explain anything, I talked about this already on D1.

idk if I agree but thanks for explaining

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca ask the mod if your role is automatic

[Gamma Emerald]

Tchill is on my list also. I just feel asuka is scummier and looking at how they mentioned each other especially asuka caking mumble stupid or whatever for voting implosion, I like asuka for scum better.

After looking at your vca I believe your ausuka tchill scum reads are associations are they not?

Implosion and ausuka are the only wagons I weren't on. So let's say I or ausuka flip town. Does that automatically clear the other in your opinion?

I can’t really answer that. I need an actual flip. I’ll need to see who was on and off the wagon, I’ll need to see who dies. Lots of things factor in to me reevaluating

If TChill flips scum I'm gonna go out on a limb here and call Ausuka town

VOTE: Tchill

I don't trust his motives here - he doesn't believe I'm scum, but wants me lynched for information's sake.

Basically it's just getting rid of a nuisance - someone scum won't be able to get rid of themselves. The info gained would have to be taken with a pinch of salt just like the info we have now; me being killed confirms no-one.

You flipping town confirms 6 people. You flipping scum is Katherines death sentence.

I agree with Gamma, especially with this in mind. Would suggest one on each wagon if Tchill was scum maybe.

Not sure what that second qquote has to do with it but thanks?

[Gamma Emerald]

Do yall really not see where I'm getting my confirm 6 townies thing?

I know I don't

I see it but don't quite agree, why do you think scum doesn't bus there?

[Gamma Emerald]

Maria why have you locktowned gamma and katherine?

was thinking this too

[Gamma Emerald]

Saw Maria's explanation for locktowning me and while they're not perfect at reading me they do have a good track record, they just are a bit too willing to give up on it at times

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I think most people are stuck in back-and-forths, which is kinda annoying because it limits interactions with others

[Gamma Emerald]

Luca ask the mod if your role is automatic

Luca you should really do this

[Gamma Emerald]

@Gamma.

Right now who’s your top scum read?
If you don’t mind saying.

TChill I think, I was having doubts when he said he was scumreading Ausuka but thinking about his possible scum motives for that I realized it would benefit him rather than hurt him bsed on the logic that was making that a concern for me, which was TChill seeming to want to get cleared off an Ausuka townflip.
VOTE: TChill

[Gamma Emerald]

based not bsed

[Gamma Emerald]

That’s actually a good point gamma.

VOTE: tchill

ew

I want to know why

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd think town would have limited or compulsive commuter, limited so it couldn't just dodge kill infinitely, or compulsive so it can't be cop/whatever other investigative cleared

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah idk. For today though he’s still town to me. Osuka/tchill/hop are my current reads.

I wanna hear what Mumble has to say and see if he has any info for us
Before I decide where to vote.

I want to discuss those reads with you also.

I don't have anything solid for you.

I don't think Ausuka is scum right now, and I think the Tchill is probably town.

tbh, I stopped reading completely after page 53 and skimmed. I'll go back and read them in the morning.

I think they wanted a tracker result from you if you had it

[Gamma Emerald]

Did you not act or did you get a no action?

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't like the push, but I got a "did not visit."

On who?

[Gamma Emerald]

Don't like the push, but I got a "did not visit."

On who?

Wtf

Why is that wtf-worthy? I felt like he didn't realize he needed to claim that so I asked him for it.
btw I'm satisfied with what I got for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why not? I guess I can see some downside but other than the thing I'm seeing it helps us in case he gets killed in the future so we're not like "who did he check?"

[Gamma Emerald]

If he tracked town it narrows down who PRs are. If he tracked scum his result doesn’t teach us anything as the other scum could have killed.

And that's what I was thinking so yay you told me nothing I hadn't already figured out. And as I said I'm done asking questions because we at least have a lead.

[Gamma Emerald]

I will admit I should have considered the thing about him checking town meaning the pr pool is narrowed down but I did at least think of it before having to be told, and I didn't try to pry after I got a partial answer

[Gamma Emerald]

There is scum on tchill wagon with it reaching 4 votes by 2.1vc

Who is it Maria?

No? couldn't town have had the same wavelength of thought?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm all for someone trying NKA, I think the lack of that is why scum can roll towns so easily