Open 712: Elemental Large (Mafia win)

[Almost50]

Who do I know?
Almost50 (I think!), Aneninen (Scummy by nature), JaydragonKing (Always hard to read), Lalendra (I remember the name, but nothing about the play), havingfitz (My favourite guess for the SK), doomfeathers (Was I/you Town or Scum in that newbie game? Remind me who was also in it.), texcat (...), TheGoldenParadox (Fitting name), Creature (Unless he does something major within the next 48 hours; this is the D1 lynch by default)

Who do I NOT know?
Sando, Shadpearl, profii, blockcandy, Taly, Ausuka, Kopherald (Unless this is an alt of Kop?)

Working theory?
Everyone is either a TPR, a VT, a Goon or a Serial Killer. Trust me.

VOTE: Creature

No posts yet. Must've rolled Scum. If this gets prodded/replaced it's 99.99% it IS a Scum role.

[Almost50]

Kopherald (hydra of kop and brassherald)

Oh! My bad. This one goes to the people I know category.

[Almost50]

Do you have any games on him? Is he consistent?

Creature's meta is well known to the whole site (and I suspect other sites too). The guy just hates to play Scum and he either lurks it out until lynched/replaced or posts nonsense on intervals and still gets lynched.

As Town though, Creature is sensible and has some depth. Some would even argue he has damn good reads as Town too.

[Almost50]

Would lynch either of Creature/doomfeathers right now. The associative tells are unbearably obvious there.

Probabilities:

Both Scum: 40%
Creature Scum and doom VI: 35%
doom Scum and Creature having a day off: 20%
Both Town and playing really bad: 5%

doom is more or less a noob. He also has something on me (because in the game he linked I was his scum p and I went on to win that game despite him having been lynched on D1, so he could be paranoid). However, I don't see why he jumped to defend Creature before even Creature had posted, given that my meta argument was accurate and supported by many others (doom may not know Creature's meta himself, but when several players back the argument up it must be true).

Creature is OMGUSy by nature, He hate to be wagoned as either alignment and could very well SR his voters, I admit. However, his entrance was HORRIBLE. The "Town?" comment on an opening post by doom was silly enough to earn Creature a SR on it's own, even if he had to retract it soon after. Creature is GOOD as Town, and would not have commented on that post AT ALL if he was Town here. The bad play/nonesense still points to Scum!Creature, especially since that comment came while he was catching up, thus should have yet seen what I said about him (i.e. no way he OMGUS SR'd me as Town!him would still)

[Almost50]

Both Town and

playing really bad

???

Defending each other.

[Almost50]

Pretty sure post 26 was scummy regardless of who you voted first.

Pretty sure it wasn't or someone else would've called me out for it.

[Almost50]

Creature is GOOD as Town

So you think town!me would straight out townread doom or would never suggest doom as town?

Never suggest he's town off that post, and never even comment on it. You're posturing (or more precisely impersonating someone you're not, namely Mastina).

[Almost50]

i.e. no way he OMGUS SR'd me as Town!him would still

Someone's seeing A50 seriously SR me before this huge post?

Of course not. I was just voting you for lols and giggles. Einstein!

[Almost50]

Right! So Taly's Scum if Creature's Scum, No doubt about it.

1- You asked if I had played with him. You didn't ask for links.
2- You did your own work and came to a conclusion that defies the established meta EVERYONE ON MS KNOWS about Creature.
3- You're shading Lalendra for voting Creature based on HIS LACK OF ACTIVITY with a "Creature wasn't even in the thread at the time of you stating this"?? Well if he had we wouldn't be voting him in the first place.
4- Your "Almost50 ~~ As he's throwing a big associative tell against Doomfeathers, but is still tunneling Creature" is also sillier than silly, because I'm associating doom to Creature himself. Why should I go after the "branch" when I'm firmly grasping to the root itself.
5-a- doom IS a noob, bu you're not reading,. (Skimming is a scumtell, btw. Weak, but a tell). doom himself says he hasn't played for a long time and has linked the last game he played here. Go check how long it was since then, and note that it was a Newbie game.
5-b- OPr you could've just clicked his profile to see he has 695 posts overall, and 14 of those were made in THIS game (plus at least one in the signup thread). and 66 in the game he linked (in which he was lynched on DAY ONE), and you would have deduced he couldn't have played more than 3-4 games at best (unless he gets lynched on D1 EVERYTIME!)
6- Where did I ever theorize anything? You're throwing words you don't even understand the meaning of. I didn't setup spec, nor did I talk about the best course to play. THAT is theory. I'm making a case on someone based on his WELL ESTABLISHED meta, and trying to guess who might be scum with him based on their play IN-THREAD.

ALSO, I SAID CREATURE WOULD COME UP WITH SOME JUNK IF HE EVER POSTED AND THE NEXT THING HE DOES IS QUESTION IF I HAD A SR ON HIM WHILE IN FACT I WAS AND STILL AM IN HIS WAGON FROM EVEN BEFORE HE POSTED.

Your attempt to switch attention to doom now makes me thin doom IS being a bad townie here. You're going down next after Creature flips red.

[Almost50]

I'd suggest that meta is one of the things you shouldnt apply that logic to as it is highly prone to manipulation.

Not Creature's, and not this way. If he was ever going to manipulate his meta, he would have BEEN ACTIVE as scum. Why would Town!Creature ever try to look Scummy in purpose???

[Almost50]

Too little effort I've taken, I know.

But right now I think any of these players could be scum: Almost50, Shadpearl, Lalendra, Doomfeathers, Texcat, Kopherald, Creature.

What if I told you I was Masons with Kopherald (figuratively, of course), would you take my word for it?

[Almost50]

I don't think so.
Why need I?

NVM. I was just trying to help.

[Almost50]

I don't think so.
Why need I?

NVM. I was just trying to help.

Actually, what was the point of a painfully obvious fake claim?

It's so obvious that anyone should have said "No, I wouldn't believe that, because I can read." (Pigeonman, please read the first post of this game.)

-Brass

Why would he even need to read the first page when I said FIGURATIVELY, OF COURSE. Even if someone hadn't read the setup they would have still got the meaning of my post, which is: I am Town and I believe FIRMLY that your slot is too.

[Almost50]

Spoiler: Cool

Spoilers have changed

Spoiler:

to protect the innocent.

Thunderbirds are go!

[Almost50]

Based on my re-review, I'm actually losing townreads.

Mayday. Mayday.

[Almost50]

I was playing as SE

SE doesn't mean shot. All you have to do is complete 2 games and you're SE. How many games did you play outside the Road to Rome though?

[Almost50]

OK, Creature can be Town for now, which means I TR the entire wagon on TGP, but I'm not sure he is scum.

I'm fairly confident on doom being Scum though so..

VOTE: doomfeathers

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

[Almost50]

Creature, are you the SK?

No. He would have replaced out already of he was the lone scumster. I give you my guarantee.

[Almost50]

In fact, if I could turn today into me vs doom gladiator thing I would.

Bad idea. I'd lynch both of you.

Also, has Creature ever had an SK game?

Now how on earth would you lynch 2 players on the same day??

Also, I don't know and I don't care. My comment was based on my understanding of Creature's hate for Scum roles. The only thing that "could" motivate him to play would be his scum partners, and the SK has no partners so Creature is very very likely to just leave the game if he rolled SK.

[Almost50]

What gives you the impression of

TheGoldenParadox

being town? I'm not seeing it.

Did I bloody say he was Town? I said I'm

not sure

he's Scum. "not sure" =/= "is not"

[Almost50]

why would you want to narrow a D1 wagon and/or lynch with yourself as a candidate?

Regardless of alignment, nobody really wants to get lynched (this an open setup and we are guaranteed there are no Jesters, no Vengeful Townies .. etc.), so it follows when somebody (me) says they want to be pitted against C it means they are 100% X is scum.

[Almost50]

why would you want to narrow a D1 wagon and/or lynch with yourself as a candidate?

Regardless of alignment, nobody really wants to get lynched (this an open setup and we are guaranteed there are no Jesters, no Vengeful Townies .. etc.), so it follows when somebody (me) says they want to be pitted against C it means they are 100% X is scum.

Yeah... I don't buy this

at all

.

Even if you wanted to; you wouldn't have enough money.

1)

How, as Town, would you have 100% certainty of someone's alignment? That tunnel-vision is much more dangerous than you think.

Maybe I'm that bad, or maybe I'm that

good

!

2)

Nobody should willingly be lynched; but what's the purpose of stating that here? Are you looking to be a martyr for your case against

Doomfeathers

?

The point is to assert I am

too damn certain

of it.

If you're truly town and doing this, don't.

You're not in a position to tell what I do/don't. You're not my WIFE!

Because you can't be this certain without more information that isn't generated in D1. (Because no flips,
therefore, minimal analysis and theories on someone's alignment.)

There's this thing we refer to as

perception

. Some have it and some don't.

This is why dichotomies, mostly early-game, usually serve to divide the playerlist later in the game and makes scumhunting difficult.

Listen. I've given you what I've got. Either lynch doom, lynch me, or do your own thing.

3)

Your case on

Doomfeathers

is understated. I cannot "follow you" if I don't know why you're pushing someone.

I didn't ask you to follow me. I asked that you look at us both and place a vote on the one you feel os scummier than the other.

[Almost50]

hang on, can Almost summarise his case on Doom right now, initially in 113 he said it was based on clear associatives between doom/creature, however in 260 he says creature can be town for now.

I'm a bit lost, so if Almost50 could just go over why Creature is now town and why his doom case still stands, it would help me greatly.

I feel like this is Scum!doom that I was partnered with before.

Creature did a few things I'm not familiar of him doing as Scum (no need to elaborate here).

In short, I did a reread of the game and came up with a revamped read list (that I would still consider it anti-town to share in full), and doom happens to be the strongest SR on it.

[Almost50]

So in reality, you're just basing your read of a previous game where you were both scum,

rather than

what he's doing in this game?

Rather than?? It's COMPARED TO. What he's doing in here is what he did in that game.

[Almost50]

Is the scum PT available to reference some examples from? I hate vague meta reads, no offence but I’m happy to listen to you if you can beef it up a bit

Mate, he was lynched on DAY ONE! You can go read the game itself if you like, but the Scum PT wouldn't give you much if anything!

[Almost50]

I mean, he linked that game in his 2nd or 3rd post in this thread.

[Almost50]

So you’re saying we should lynch doom on your day 1 only meta read?

I mean, I was HIS SCUM BUDDY, so I was paying attention to every little thing he said. I wanted to tutor him some if I could. After all, it was Newbie game.

Listen, why don't you just drop it for now. The more you defend him the harder it is to lynch him later and the more "misconception" of him being Town in your subconscious is solidified, which will be bad for us down the road EVEN if I flip soon. What you're doing -inadvertently- is discrediting my read and thus my credibility even after I flip, and you are planting the idea that there's no case against doom in the minds of the masses.

Ask yourself this: Do you know me at all? No. Do you know how good/bad my reads are on D1? No, you don't.
So, do you want to sheep me? Absolutely not. But do you really want to discredit me and dismantle my opinion all the way?? I think not.

[Almost50]

@Sando: Your vote is already on me, so I owe you no explanations. I was responding to someone who IS trying to understand. and ALSO happens to have "some" previous experience with my play. Your intervention in not at all welcome.

Also, for some odd reason I thought Gamma Emerald was a player in this game. I really should pay much more attention to the player list.

[Almost50]

@profii: I concede to the fact I can't phrase my thoughts about doom into words. When I said if

feels

like his scum game I really meant it. It's "something" deep inside of me that is crying "this is how it felt when he was scum with you". I didn't even remember the details of that game until he kindly offered me the link, and I wanted to TR him just for that (reminding me of the one and only game we played together, in which -incidentally- we were scum partners), but I just couldn't and that inner voice keep crying he's scum here still.

@doom: Just because I appear online doesn't mean I'm going to post. Posting requires reading, and if I've been posting elsewhere it means I've had to read some stuff posted "elsewhere" too. That and the fact I am logged on as long as my PC is on (which is more or less as long as I'm awake, regardless of whether I'm even doing anything on the PC). I could've turned that off if I wanted to, but I don't. I'm not going to hide my online status just to get that poor argument off my back. "He's on and he's not posting". Ask anyone who played Scum me if I would be as passive when I play scum. In fact here's a reason for me to scum read you: Applying a FALSE meta argument to me when you damn well know this is not how I played scum when I was SCUM WITH YOU.

[Almost50]

In fact, here's an idea: Why don't you all try to go find me posts of the past few days, and figure out why I was putting this game on the back burner. Just do it "in secrecy" and DO NOT talk about it when/after you do.

[Almost50]

@doom: Here's a direct question.. IN YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE, do you find this to be anywhere near my scum game? Yes or No.

And another question, if you would be so kind: Can you go find a Scum game of mine where I wasn't loud enough? ANY game will do, regardless of what type of Scum, who my partners were .. etc. Find one and link us to it. Thank you.

[Almost50]

I don't know. I don't have one, I guess. I mean, I wouldn't mind lynching half of the player list as I don't have reads on them, but to say I'm confident in one slot -other than doom- to flip scum would be a lie.

Maybe I should reread the whole thread when I wake up.

[Almost50]

Alrighty then..

@KOP: I'm sorry to disappoint you, but this needs to be done

I hereby declare I'm NOT going to reread the thread today. I will be as stubborn as I humanly can.

@profii: If you would be so kind to vote me I will hammer myself. Thank you.

[Almost50]

On fact, I'll also add being survivalist and opportunistic to the list of my charges:

VOTE: TGP

He could be scum for [redacted]

P-edit: I was just about to. Now watch the crowds go nuts about it.

[Almost50]

OK, let me try again with a fresh mind, and "maybe" I will be able to get my suspicions better phrased this time.

Ooh, game on.

VOTE: Almost50, who I played last time I played on this site.

Maybe I can analyze him less poorly

or something.

I've played with havingfitz at least twice, but even less recently. Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

TheGoldenParadox, to which paradox does your username refer?

The bolded is alarming to me. Why? Because it suggests doom had to analyze me before and he was poor at it. This is obviously negated by the fact the only game we played together before he was my scum p, so he sure as hell didn't have to analyze me at all.

The last line is an uneeded attachment to the post and tells us nothing. Some may brush it off as pure noise at the start of the game, but with a post that already has some content it is clear doom wasn't at a loss of words as to how to enter the game, so why did he feel the need to attach that to the bottom of his post?

My interpretation is this is a link. The question is whether it's natural (i.e. doom being a noob!Scum and unintentionally linking to his scum p) or was it intentionally manufactured (i.e. doom is trying to implicate TGP to himself when he flips).

As I'm supposed to start "fresh" though I will just say doom's post didn't feel right in 2 different spots and note the possibility of a link between him and TGP and move on.

Wot, no votes? We've got to start some dialogue so we can find scum. Votes start wagons, wagons start discussions, and discussions breed reactions. That's just how things work.

This is another post that doesn't sit right with me. Only two players had posted after doom's 1st post and it was only 29 minutes after that when he posted this.

Again, people may think I'm crazy as the guy is clearly pushing for the game to move on, but I say the game could not have been set in motion with only 3 players having posted, and it's not unseen on MS that some players do not vote in their very first post.

About the 2 posts between doom's posts: TGP's post says absolutely nothing, while Jay actually says something.
------------
Nothing until post #11. Taly obviously can't be scum WITH doom here. (Note: I said WITH. They could be both Town, one Town and one Scum, or even both Scum but one is the SK at this point)

What do you mean by that? He hasn't posted anything relevant yet, I suppose, though that's true of several people. Does he tend to post quickly D1 as scum?

1- If you wanted the game to move on you should be happy and content someone voted someone. It is RVS still, so nobody takes the stated reasoning seriously.. but doom does!!
2- doom jumps to defend an accusation on TGP that isn't even there yet. Why did he feel the need to point out TGP hasn't posted anything relevant yet (when he had wanted people to vote before other people posted AT ALL)??

Natural link semi-confirmed.

it's a paradox, I am voting paradox. I'm hilarious.

...That's not what a paradox is. Or am I missing something you're saying? Paradox's post didn't look that scummy to me; do you know something about his playstyle that I don't?

Further overreaction over practically NOTHING AT ALL. Notice that doom is focused on arguin against a single post on a precise player on page bloody one. he didn't as much as even comment on any other vote.

At least I can safely say Profii isn't scum WITH doom either.

Good feelings about doomfeathers; it seems like he is being proactive town by getting things going, asking probing questions and trying to get us out of RVS as quickly as possible.

And now we have THIS. This feels forced and totally unnatural. There is/was absolutely nothing for Lalendra ro feel "good" about doom in his posts. On the contrary, I have shown how the are being suspicious as they are focused on one slot and one slot only.
------------
Now there's some motion in the game and Lalendra/texcat/Jay are involved, but doom doesn't even comment on it in his next post 29, as he is more focused on "forging" a preliminary read list (forged is proven by the fact he himself acknowledged in the next post) as well as trying to find a way to mention TGP and compare him to Anen to justify why he's voting Anen over TGP, and I ask again: Did anybody even comment on doom's vote on Anen or ask him why he didn't vote TGP??? Why does doom feel the need to tell us why his vote on Anen is a better option than TGP??

Doomfeathers's 29[post] is a "how to post something without posting anything" 101. He's trying to look very town. Again.

"Trying to look town" is right, because he is not.

single RVS votes can be ignored with no trouble.

So what was all the fuss about prifii's vote on TGP again??

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

Weren't you arguing that wagons are built to produce content and lead to information? How are FOUR wagons not enough that you had to find a fifth target to vote? Doesn't splitting the votes on too many wagons totally go against "building" wagons??

Ugh. I hate all four wagons.

You hate all four wagons, but you don't comment on Anienen (Pigeonman). Please explain.

-Brass

I don't think there's any good reason to wagon him; he hasn't looked particularly scummy that I remember, and his votes were just leftover RVS. I can examine him if you wish.

That was all fine until that last sentence. Are you saying you said all that WITHOUT examining Anen? Or are you saying you're a physician??
------------------
So doom randomly votes fitz, finds some BS reasoning for it, and then discovers HE was the one doing all the skimming he didn't see fitz was on V/LA, and decides to vote me.

His reasoning is I wasn't posting and haven't FoS'd anyone. But what about TGP, mate?? He doesn't post at all. Why is he not scummy??

Okay then.
One of {Creature, doom, A50} is scum. If A50 is town, the other two are probably scum. If A50 is scum, the other two are probably town.
VOTE: Almost50

And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, was TGP's SECOND post in the game. Who does he pick to vote??

You say A50 is a stronger scumread than doom, and yet you're still voting doom?

FoS Taly

And this was his 3rd. Whom does he defend? (Please note that he himself says there's scum in myself.creature/doom, but he himself is seesawing one of the 3 he himself suspects there to be one scum in them).

Here what I'm getting is a lot of people jumping on me at once, which seems extremely opportunistic.

And this was his defence.

I need some inspiration to play this game.

There are way too many scummy players.

i'm lurking here b/c i'm not enjoying this game at all and i'm quickly losing motivation to play.

And this is his 5th post. He tried something scummy and it backfired som he's not enjoying the game.

The fact is he is waiting for his buddies to try and save him today w/o him further linking to them.

In [post]235 doom is defending Lalendra TWICE (against 2 different voters). I think it's doom/TGP/Lalendra for the Mafia team, which means the whole team is on my wagon.

That is actually a fair point. If someone is being opportunistic, I think it's probably Paradox; he's been lurking, and not in a very townie way from what I've seen, whereas I have townreads on Sando and Shadpearl.

Translation: I'll concede that TGP is scum and I'll say so here for distancing, but I'll keep my vote on A50 in an attempt to save TGL if only for this one day.

In 283 doom is again being too defensive of Lalendra.

I mean, seriously guys. Lynch doom and you will easily see TGP+Lalendra are his buddies.

Texcat's play is different to her townplay.

How so? I played recently in a game where she was conftown and barely participated so I'm not seeing yet how this is AI for her.

Oh. Nuts.

Because you immediately got caught as scum or...?

No, because I kinda hate this game right now.

Well, if you are town and want people to believe it, you might want to figure out how to enjoy it more. You look scummy when you don't care, and it does look like a weak scum excuse.

By the way, what is it about the game that you hate?

Can somebody honestly tell me this isn't Scum!doom talking to his scum buddies, and ESPECIALLY SO in the second quote? I mean, he's practically begging TGP not to screw them up.

Now I have yet to spot the SK, but I know at least 4 slots that aren't it (apart from the 3 Mafia) so I'd say I have 6-8 suspects for that.

I'm ready to be lynched.

[Almost50]

...Wow. You've thought this through. I'm glad I'm playing with you. I think I'll keep my vote on Almost50, though, simply because I still think there's a chance Paradox is an apathetic townie, whereas I'm pretty sure Almost50 is scum.

He's doing it again! He agrees that the more informative lynch would be TGP's but he will still keep his vote on me because TGP "might" be apathetic townie.

Tip: You COULD do a search on TGP and see how he plays as Town, couldn't you? COULDN'T YOU??

[Almost50]

Sure, I could search games. Or, I could finish reading this thread.

i.e. "I won't be trying to meta search TGP because then I would have to say this is definitely not his Town meta"

[Almost50]

Btw, here's something I remembered about that game.. check this purl=viewtopic.php?p=8511580#p8511580]post[/url] from post-game discussions. I will quote the part where I was talking to doom in particular:

"

@doom:

I offered you an early out off the Jammy wagon by stating intent to hammer. You should've just backed off. Instead, you response was too scummy to ignore or I would be practically acknowledging being on your team.

"

So it seems that he also was sticking with glue on a townie back in that game, that even I -his partner- couldn't convince him to hop off that wagon. Now we're getting somewhere.

[Almost50]

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Seriously?? Ser-friggin'-iously??

[Almost50]

He seemed to be playing as I remembered him playing as scum, including lurking and posting extremely little of value.

OK.. so I had 116 posts, second only to Accountant (who was the game IC), and I was lurking? I had 116 posts out of a total of 728 posts in the thread, and that's including the mod's AND post-game post.. and I was lurking??

And "posting extremely little of value" too? I mean, I was the lone scumster starting the end of D1.. in a NEWBIE GAME.. and I WON THE GAME.. by being a lurker and posting "extremely little of value"???

Man, you're PATHETIC!

Paradox has signed up for multiple games while refusing to answer questions or play the game at all. No other lynch is acceptable for me today.

All righty, then. That's significant. If he is scum, though, why won't he respond? What's the most likely explanation for apparently completely abandoning a game?

Seriously?? Ser-friggin'-iously??

Pedit @Almost50: Yeah. You don't seem the type to do something like that without a reason. What's your intention in promising to self-hammer? Are you trying to garner sympathy or show you don't care whether you die or something?

I've requoted my own post to make it easier for you. Now where was I commenting on my self-hammer issue?

I CLEARLY made it obvious I was amazed NOTHING will get you to vote TGP.

[Almost50]

It seems like you're panicking?

I'll forgive you because you're new to MS. Ask anyone who knows me about me "panicking" though. I may get emotional, angry, grumpy ..etc. But panicking is a program that just doesn't run on my platform. (Ask Jay, as he's the one who has seen the most of me of late.. also fitz has seen me more often recently).

[Almost50]

I've seen it a few times where someone is highly scum read by a few, replace out and the replacement has to pick up the slack. I've seen one time, Fitz will back it up, I think there are a few from that game in this game, a scummy slot replaced out and the replacement came in and towned that slot up, it got killed by the SK and that slot flipped scum.

Poor Gamma didn't even get to post in thread before fitz slayed him.

[Almost50]

I guess only TGP would be scum from that combination.

I'll call you Sensei with a capital S of doom isn't scum here.

[Almost50]

Hey, Almost, why don't you vote for Doomfeathers?

I did, and it never took off. It was just you and me against the world (And neither of us is Scott Pilgrim I believe)

[Almost50]

A question for those who're more advanced in meta-ing Almost50: is this style normal for town-Almost50? This is very important!!!!

yes it is (this is from the one and only person who is utterly advanced in meta'ing me. I'm even better than Mathdino in that department)

[Almost50]

[Retry] – – – – [Cancel]
/\
||

He replaced out.

[Almost50]

Alright then. I'm going to make an

awfully bad

piece of play here, because

most of you

are no more than baboon typists:

I'm one of the 3 Elemental Doctors. That's right (Good luck to the Backup Doctor. You have the rest of the day, then a night and a day to form your own TRs and decide on whom to protect).

Since there are only 3 Mafia and 1 Sk = 4 scum in total, then

at least

3 morons are on my wagon when I was put to L-2 (and those morons have no business playing mafia anymore than they should be assigned a space shuttle maintenance duties.)

I know, I know... I'm bad and scummy and all.. you're all geniuses and I'm the one to blame, but here's a reminder to those who know me and those who just got introduced to me alike: And one last note:

DO NOT BLOODY META ME... EVER! I DO NOT HAVE A BLOODY META THAT I ADHERE TO.

I will NOT provide a full read list, so do not expect one and don't ask for one. In a setup like this, providing a full read list is providing scum with a road plan on whom to kill.

I still think doom is scum though, and TGP is also likely Scum

, but feel free to do as you wish. I myself won't be voting outside if these two today though.

There is a reason I do not have enough SRs here, and that is I've been TOWN HUNTING. As a protective it is important for me to recognize TOWNIES and evaluate the chances of them being targeted for the NK so as to try and protect them. The Scum hunting I did mainly lead me to doom as the proper lynch and since we can't lynch more than one person per day I didn't need to look any further until I was made to.

Disclaimer: The outrage outlined above is directed at those who actually voted/FoS'd me and is limited to them.

Thank you and GOOD LUCK (you will need it).

[Almost50]

Maybe he confused the time Paradox was at seven with his own six?

No. There was a time when we were both tied at 7 votes and I was waiting for someone to put me @L-1 to hammer myself and spit it in a few people's faces... y'know (Not yours though as you weren't voting me)

[Almost50]

@Jay: In fact, that post was an "edit" of my "last speech" post I had prepared which you can find inside the spoiler:

Spoiler:

Thank you.

The right play -on my part- was to claim. However, I'm getting fed up playing with baboon typists.

Since there are only 3 Mafia and 1 Sk = 4 scum in total, then at least 5 morons are on my wagon and those morons have no business playing mafia anymore than they should be assigned a space shuttle maintenance duties. I'm talking Dumb & Dumber IQ level here, and I'm glad to be out of this circus.

And one last note:

DO NOT BLOODY META ME. EVER! I DO NOT HAVE A BLOODY META THAT I ADHERE TO.

N.B. GL for the Backup Elemental Doctor. They are on active service now.

Disclaimer: The outrage outlined above is directed at those who actually voted/FoS'd me and is limited to them.

Update: An you know what? No final reads too, as that would only benefit Scum. I haven't yet pegged ALL Scum, so no point in giving them a pool to shoot from.

I still think doom is scum though, and TGP is also likely Scum because [redacted]

There's a reason why I don't have enough Srs here, and it's because I was more focused on finding TOWN READS for a pool of my protection targets.

I just rearranged some stuff and edited out some, and readjusted the numbers ..etc.

[Almost50]

I'm not going to go back and do a VCA for you. Do a manual VC from the start of the game until you get to that points yourself.. or don't. What do I care?

[Almost50]

You care because you're making a claim that is fundamentally false.

How do you know I don't fancy fake claiming??

[Almost50]

That's my sthick, Almost. Swiper no swiping.

I was here long before you were. You're just a copycat.

[Almost50]

Your power is getting shot night one time and time again. It's completely different. Ba boom.

Nah! That's my passive ability. I have no control over that. My active ability though is lying through my teeth as either alignment.

For example; I could claim that YOU will be my target tonight, and that I will protect you from water kills.

[Almost50]

I think Almost50 is crazy, lol.

Although, from the outside looking in, his posts are perfect because I can't make up my mind if he's terrible scum or the ballsiest townie I've ever seen

The bolded is true and is nothing new. I'm concerned about the rest of it though.

How am I terrible scum if you can't make up your mind about my alignment? And how am I a ballsy townie?

I also have just admitted I lie/fake claim a lot as either alignment. Doesn't that concern you even just a little? So you still believe my claim as Doctor? (

Note: There are 3 of them, so I would/could not have been CC'd if I was faking

).

@Jay: Take note of the underlined.

[Almost50]

if they did I'd say they were very shitty PRs.

You're missing the point, which is: If you want to fake claim as town you do it in a way that does not draw a CC. If you want to fake claim as scum you either do the same if your aim is to escape the lynch. Only if you are scum and actually want to draw a CC do you ever fake claim an existing role that is likely to CC. That was my tip to you.

[Almost50]

I wish for the slots that replaced out to be modkilled. (This is what you get for playing @ MU)

[Almost50]

I wish for the slots that replaced out to be modkilled. (This is what you get for playing @ MU)

That seems HORRIBLE from a townie perspective, really, because that just means scum have to kill less people to win if they're town. And if they're scum, well obviously one less scum to deal with.

Mind explaining this a little better?

Considering I want to lynch them both it follows I totally expect them both to flip scum. It also keeps the D1 going so we can actually analyze most everyone based on these two flips. I don't see your problem unless you're saying you TR'd both slots, which is obviously not the case when you have been pushing for a TGP lynch all day. In fact, EVEN in the off chance one is Town I still will take a 1 for 1 trade avec plaisir and much more so when we still have a lynch to carry on today.

@fitz: On MU they keep wishing for all kinds of things from a "true peek" on someone (that's MU lingo for an investigation result) to a fay vig shot, to.. ahem.. unmentionable stiff that aren't even game related

[Almost50]

He's coming from another site where apparently that is the punishment for asking to replace out. Seems a little Machiavellian to me, and I agree it's anti-town.

That too. Asking to be replaced out is severely punishable. Talking about your flavour is severely punishable. Checking your nose is severely punishable. Being stupid isn't though.

[Almost50]

So, you and Lalendra met on a different site before?

Not to my knowledge. I've just recently started playing on MU (and only as a troll I may add).

[Almost50]

He has just mentioned playing on MU before and said that's what you get there for asking to replace.

Oh, the "that'[s what you get from playing @MU" was a reference to the "I wish for ..." in general. Like you would be playing a game and someone pops up with a "I wish it would rain today" or "I wish it was Sunday" ..etc. so that's what I meant by the MU reference. But the mods do warn against replace-out posts too.

[Almost50]

but you just don't seem that altruistic to me

Oh! You've got a point there, I guess. I would never ever really do that, now would I??

[Almost50]

This game is dead

[Almost50]

I want to lynch doom or TGP. That DOES help, you know, and in more than one way. We will be helping ourselves move the game, and helping the mod by needing one less replace-on, but -most of all- helping the town win con by actually flipping SCUM.

[Almost50]

Actually, I’m going to straight up claim. I’m one of the doctors.

Yeah, right. And I'm the queen of Denmark!

[Almost50]

@Tracker - don’t claim, obvi, target me tonight. I guarantee you will see me target somewhere.

This confirms me as town, and if I don’t go anywhere, it confirms me as scum. Also, this adds the chance that I can die in the night thus getting rid of the problem all together.

Except you can target the one you're going to kill, then the Tracker will have to out to expose you, then you claim you protected the target from X and they could have still died of Y or Z. We have 3 ways to kill the target and the Doctor has to choose to protect from just one.

tl;dr: "I'm dead anyway, so let me live for one more night so that can both perform a kill and out the Tracker w/o the other 2 goons being at risk at all.

Nice try though.

[Almost50]

If your so sure your getting killed tonight, then why ask the Tracker to waste their time on you? That just means they should be tracking someone else.

I just explained why

[Almost50]

Who’s the other doctor again? Is it Almost? I’ll target the doctor. 100% clears me. I’m nearly a scum good as good as conf town now.

Even better! "I'll even kill the Doctor while the Tracker is watching and then expose the Tracker and try to get away with it while my partners just watch in amazement."

[Almost50]

1- TGP got to L-1 and didn't bother claiming or even hinting it
2- The ISO is scummier than scummy
3- Boon comes in with a plan to expose the Tracker

WHAT MORE do we want to know this is Scum??

FTR; as soon as this flips scum Jay is automatically clear here. He was the leading vote on TGP and didn't twitch when he got to L-1

Also, ftr (and I'm sorry to say this) Dino doesn't get a free pass. A leeway maybe, but that's it. I'm not sure how to say this, but if Dino is Scum and he gets his way he's going to win anyway. He could have found himself backed to the wall and was forced to bus without pre-arrangements or he could still be the SK. The leeway though is because IF he is Town he can lead the Town to a flawless victory.

@Dino: I sincerely do apologize if you're really Town here. You're just too good to be taken a face value and I'm afraid I won't have the time to sort you as I'm tonight's NK anyway. Good Luck though.

P-edit: Hypothetically speaking; if you were Town you would not have asked to be Tracked to begin with. That is just bad play (for Town). I honestly don't know what I would have said or done if I was in that hypothetical situation, but I certainly would NOT have asked the Tracker to be on me. Maybe do some ISOing and leave us notes on who is scum so we can use your reads after you flip?

[Almost50]

I should've seen that one coming when Jay freaked out at the arrival of Dino

Dino officially not Mafia (NO PUNS) LOOOL

I've got a sinking feeling it's Shad+Jimmy, yo

VOTE: Shadpearl

[Almost50]

Replacing Mathdino.

.... (no comment)

UNVOTE:

[Almost50]

Actually

VOTE: Jimmy

[Almost50]

I fully agree with Sando... yeah.., that makes perfect sense...

VOTE: Sando

Let's dance, buddy! Show me what you're really made of!

If someone doesn't see the flow in Sando's case: He says it's me+Taly, but he votes Taly over me himself when >I< was the original suspect to begin with.

Like, if he really believed in his theoretical team he should be pushing ME first and only push Taly if I flip red. Obviously, he knows his wagon on me won't go through because of my claim, so why not push the other person and maybe we can

force a claim there!

That's all what scum care about.

[Almost50]

Oh right, so by your logic we shouldn't push a case on ANYONE else because they might be forced to claim?

Did I say that?? Please turn around and pit the screen in front on you.

You are pushing an A50-Taly team. You are not pushing Taly independently. If you are pushing a TEAM you need to push the original suspect first to prove the possibility of the other one being scum with them.

If we lynch Taky and they flip Scum that may look bad for me, yes.
But what if he flips Town? Nothing. Town make mistakes and I'm still a suspect.

However, lynching me first is always the better option.
If I flip Town then Taly is CLEAR, because why would Scum!him stop pushing me?
Only if I flip Scum does it look bad in him.

So, flipping me could lead to Taly being cleared, while flipping him doesn't do me any good. Now why would you want to miss a chance of getting a clear on someone, even if that was just as good a possibility as any?

[Almost50]

You're trying to make out that pushing literally ANYONE other than you can only be scum motivated...

Yes. Pushing anyone AS MY PARTNER must be scum motivated, because you need to flip ME first before you push anyone for being my partner.

[Almost50]

Zzzzzzz. No comment.

You got it right!

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

I've just had a revelation! Sando is TOWN.

@Taly: Unvote him at will. He's just one of those players who think they're smart and got something, but he's not scum. Trust me on this.

[Almost50]

It's hard to explain how Sando thinks although I can see where he's coming from and I've seen it too many times before (and have been guilty of it myself in a previous stage of my Mafia play). Suffice it to say he's going "one-dimensional", so to speak, and he also expects everyone else to do the same. It was either me or TGP, so if TGP flipped green you should NOT have revamped your whole read list, but should have rather simply turned to me. Y'know.. it's a binary thing for him.. 2 competing wagons so one must be scum, but he is clever so he is allowed to rethink that,.. everyone else is not as clever and cannot think that way, so they must be scum for doing something he does not allow them to do.

It's the same as him repeated calling me an idiot, His way is the right way of playing mafia and everyone else who doesn't follow his rules are dumb or scum.

Now, let me know if you have any other solid reads. My scum pool is in profii/Anen/Shad/fitz/Jimmy/texcat/Creature (in no particular order), but I'm afraid I'm unable to come up with a couple who look more likely to be scum with Jay.

HOWEVER, and on an

individual level

, I think it more likely that there's scum in Anen/fitz, and here is why:

Anen, Creature AND Jay were all in a game with me and Dino recently (this one) where I was a VT and tried to bait the NK by pretending to be a PR (but I never claimed).

Jay -on the other hand- was also a VT who went too far as to actually claim and get CC'd (i.e. he drew the PR out to CC him).

If you notice the conversation between me and Jay after I claimed here I told him something like "this is how you do it as town.. you claim something that cannot be CC'd so as not to out the real PRs".

My theory thus is that the scum team is under the impression I'm fake claiming to get them to shoot me, and are hopeful they can shoot the other doctors so that they can lynch me without having to waste a bullet on me.

So, I would of course suspect Jay to have gone down that route and told his teammates, but seeing as he didn't see it in the first time (in the linked game) coupled with me actually outright claiming here rather than crumbing and hinting .. let's just say I'm not too confident it was Jay who directed the NK off me. I think it was something more perceptive, and that would be Annen (who was scum in that game) or Creature (who was town in that game).

Also worthy of note that the SK did follow Dino's advice and shot Jay. It

could

be either of them still, or it could be fitz, but I'm not seeing scum!fitz outright here.

Shad and profii look good as a team from VCA, but profii isn's as scummy on a stand alone basis.

texcat I always scum read regardless, and Jimmy hasn't been in the game to begin with.

tl;dr

So, what's your read in Annen?

[Almost50]

Btw, I always have trouble distinguishing scum play from PR play (with a few exceptions), so it could very well be that 2 of my suspects are actually TPRs.

[Almost50]

@Sando: Try to imagine a world in which I am Town and can miscount because I do my own VCs and do not follow the mod's.

OK, yes I may have been a doc-bait, although doctors are weak in this setup (weak as in

ineffective

, i.e. not the modifier "weak"), so yes the SK or the Tracker are of a higher priority.

What I am arguing though is that they indeed didn't believe me because I do fake claim/ceumb as town and I precisely did it in the most previous game with certain players who are also in this game and I even discussed it in this game with a flipped scum. I do fake claim/crumb as Town to protect the PRs and bait the NK, so those who know me and precisely those who played in that game could very well have very well come to that conclusion.

There's always the possibility I'\m left alive as a distraction too. As long as I'm alive many a player (like yourself) will never be focused enough on the real scum because you will always be suspicious of me. If someone is causing the town to be divided about their alignment and is taking up a big chunk of the discussion; scum don't want that slot dead anytime soon.

Now, what IS your read on Annen? (apologies if you had responded to that in the next page)

[Almost50]

Seems I need to prod dodge.

I'm looking through Ausuka's ISO... Not really liking what I'm seeing. Looking lots at just pure activity levels for TGP yesterday. Nothing really since that point, though. Plus, I think I see some distancing tried from Jay during Day 1 a few times. Day 2 is not moving so fast, so I'm voting my hot read here.

VOTE: Ausuka

-Brass

I'm at a point where I'd need a really convincing case to vote on someone I currently TR.

Do you have anything against an Annen wagon?

[Almost50]

Creature too, but I don't remember his style much.

LOL. You must not have played with Creature then.

VOTE: Aneninen who had me fooled last game

She may be cute, but I don't think that's a very good reason to follow her.

VOTE: Jaydragon

Texcat's first 2 votes. Possible scum team?

Could be, but I seem to have seen something that makes texcat less likely to be scum with both of them.

[Almost50]

Why do you want a wagon on me?

If you were reading you would know the answer to that, but I'll make it simple for you: Why am I (a supposedly claimed Doctor) still alive> Why would Scum (Mafia) prefer to shoot Lalendra over me? Any idea?

[Almost50]

quote="Anen"]What if the mafia team is Jay/Jimmy/Shadpearl?
Taly's the SK then.

I think this is the closest to my view atm. I think Jimmy is the weakest read I have there, and Taly is the only person I have any SK related read on, but it's very weak this early and I'm going to ignore it for now.

I'm going back to Shad. Fake-newbie, OTT daybreak, only responds/interacts when voted with basically no unforced scumhunting.

VOTE: Shadpearl[/quote]

Now there's an odd vote!! You agree that Jimmy/Shad are a team, and there's a wagon on Jimmy and not on Shad, so you start one on Shad??

[Almost50]

Damn! Messed up the quotes

[Almost50]

However, wouldn't I have killed you if I were scum after Tit for Tat?

That IS the point. I say you probably wouldn't, because you now KNOW I totally could be faking for EXACTLY this very reason.. to eat a bullet instead of a PR.

[Almost50]

Now there's an odd vote!! You agree that Jimmy/Shad are a team, and there's a wagon on Jimmy and not on Shad, so you start one on Shad??

I've just managed to sort the mis-quote out to see: this question is serioulsy valid.
If Jimmy flips scum, we'll definitely need to take a closer look at Sando (whom I townread anyway).

VOTE: JimmyUrineMoneyShot
I think I like this again. Jimmy's posts have been pretty much nonsense and he hasn't brought any content to the table. Until he does, this is a good wagon.

OK, this is not for this game, but I'm trying to learn to express my thoughts in real time, so disregard at will:

-Anen: If Jimmy flips Mafia I'll reread Sando
- Ausuka: Vote Jimmy
- My brain: Jimmy is Town, Ausuka is scum with Sando. Knowing Jimmy will flip Town we do that and Sando is still a TR for Anen and company.

Again: I'm NOT FoSing Ausuka/Sando here. I'm just trying to show people how my brain works at time for whenever you guys play me again. Anen already saw another thing I look for in Tit for Tat (someone parking a vote on a p and jumping off the wagon when it gains momentum).

Basically, I play my town games with a scum mindset, meaning I try to think as a scumster and ask myself if I would do X as Scum and WHY I would do it. If it makes sense, I get suspicious of the person who did this X.

[Almost50]

I played with him in another game when he was the SK, and he offered a lot more.

??? So he offered a lot more as Scum. so you suspect him to be scum for not playing to his scum meta??

And just to be clear: If fitz is not Town here I'd "automatically" assign him to being the SK.

[Almost50]

The game has come to a stagnation.. again. I have not much more to add tbh, so I'll just drop my vote on Jimmy putting him @L-2 and leave it to you all to decide when the day should end.

VOTE: Jimmy

[Almost50]

*Sigh*

Alright, I'll hammer profii if it comes to that, but I'm not sure why everyone we wagon gets swallowed by the lurking worm and then gets a pass for it.

[Almost50]

Have you ever seen a game where counterwagons were both on scum?

I seem to remember both Titus and Varsoon being wagoned as scum p's only for them to raise a counterwagon on Ranger who was also their partner, so my answer is YES (although the question wasn't directed at me).

[Almost50]

Only one doc left. So we could have a counterclaim now. And either the doc got really lucky or scum and SK both killed Aneninen.

SCUM CLAIM!

Wanting to either confirm me as Doctor or our the real one for them to kill.

NOBODY COUNTER TODAY!

VOTE: texcat

[Almost50]

I mean, we've established that if I was faking it's my TOWN game anyway, so what's the point of a CC?

[Almost50]

Not following this and I don’t understand why your latest posts seem really lazy. tex was just saying the obvious. There’s only one doc left and someone could counterclaim.

Can you start actually engaging with the game and not just mindlessly tunneling?

With all due respect, if you're "not following" and "don't understand" then you have problems with comprehension, and thus have no right to tell me what to do and what not to.

Thank you.

[Almost50]

@LUV: I don't have trouble communicating. You're the one who has trouble comprehending.

Confirming me as Doctor gets me killed.
Confirming me as VT would have to come through a CC so it gets the real Doctor killed.

The only good reason to call for a CC now is if my ALIGNMENT was still questionable, which is not the case. Hence, calling out for a CC only serves SCUM identify the last Doctor for sure to kill them tonight.

Your problem is that you're bad at scum, so you can't even put yourself in a "scum mindset" to figure the motive behind what texcat has called for.

Again; no good Town motive, but a very good scum motive.

[Almost50]

No way we win this game with so much lurking going on.

I just hope to God I'm not a fool.

VOTE: profii <<<<<<<<< L-1

It's fitz/profii/texcat (and I don't even know which of profii/fitz is the SK)

[Almost50]

It's fitz/profii/texcat (and I don't even know which of profii/fitz is the SK)

Have you been suspecting me this game?
Are you inferring I'm bussing? Lol....

I'm not sure of anything. It's PoE mostly. I mean, we lynched 2 Doctors, so it could very well be my reads are "pigeon poop" this game (Anen should get a kek)

[Almost50]

It's nothing but a survivalist vote. Scummy.

Survivalism is NOT scummy. Fitzz' maybe, but not for that.

I am also starting to have second thoughts about Shad despite it all. "Profii is dead" followed by profii saying "GL town" strikes me as a planned theatrical move to try and give an impression profii is town.

[Almost50]

Ok I’ll claim

I’m tracker

??? And it never occurred to you to track me? That is odd. But I guess I'd understand

if

you TR'd me anyway.

[Almost50]

OK.. I'm slow, but others (Taly) may have interpreted what profii said better than myself so..

VOTE: shadpearl

[Almost50]

My brain isn't working at it's full capacity still, so somebody look at Sando's post here and see if it makes sense for him to vote texcat at this time.

Also, I'm wondering who believes I'm a Doctor and who believes I'm a VT now. A least two people referred to me as the Doctor recently, which IS indeed odd for me to be still alive in that case.

[Almost50]

OK.. I'm slow, but others (Taly) may have interpreted what profii said better than myself so..

VOTE: shadpearl

Can we not abrogate our responsibilities Day3 please? We've lynched two docs and gotten SFA from the wagons because of votes exactly like this.

Taly is at least providing reasoning, it's poor, but it's at least reasoning. Everyone else is just lazy and anti-town at this point. When you get a claim with a guilty, you don't just lynch the guilty with the sole intention of getting a read on the claim, that's just lazy and stupid.

Excuse you! In my world, a guilty is a guilty unless CC'd. Do you CC profii??

[Almost50]

UNVOTE:

OK. Going to wait for profii to explain why SK and not Mafia, and also wait for Shad to post.

[Almost50]

@Shad: I should learn to play games without reading the setup. That must be fun because a lot of players are doing it of late.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Shadpearl

What that actual F#%K! Not another Korina!!

OK.. fine...

VOTE: ptofii

[Almost50]

So, here\s what I think happened:

profii is MAFIA who was being run up to the lynch. He thought his was going to get lynched anyway, so he wanted to draw the Tracker out to CC him for his buddy to kill. The Tracker can get a guilty. The Doctor cannot even protect a target 100%. So he went for it without a thorough revision on his own play/stated opinions, and almost got away with it.

I'm looking at Ausuka in particular now. Her actions around this are pretty weird. I'd track her tonight and lynch her tomorrow regardless UNLESS 2 kills happen AND the Tracker comes out to say she didn't visit one of them.

I'll reiterate so as not to be misunderstood by those who skim for the jest of it all:

IF, and ONLY if, we have 2 NKs, and Ausuka didn't visit either of them should the Tracker claim.

If they see her visiting a NK, OR if she goes nowhere but we only have 1 NK, then she gets lynched without the need for the Tracker to claim.

I'm also still sus of texcatm but I now think fitz could be town here.

[Almost50]

And track Almost50 if you haven't already! The uncertainty is killing me.

I'm pretty sure they already did, and they either saw me visiting someone who didn't die or they saw me stay put with 2 NKs occurring. (The former would be a stronger clear because it confirms me as the last living Doctor, while the second is only a soft clear because I could be the one Mafioso who did not make the kill).

I am 100% on Scum!Profii today. I hope Sando would reconsider in light of the -damning IMHO- evidence on profii actually supporting the Jimmy lynch after having allegedly tracked him.

[Almost50]

@Sando: That's exactly what I'm sayin. We lynch profii today and Tracker follows Aus (unless they have a better idea).

[Almost50]

@Sando: I'm not sure if it was/is a better plan. We have new evidence that profii is in fact lying about having trailed Jimmy. We also would have no indications as to what to do next if you were NK'd next. The town is on the verge of imploding and we need someone/something to reunite us, and I say that someone is you and that something is a profii flip.

[Almost50]

@Creature: If I'm being 100% honest, I'd say your posts today ping me hard as the SK! I can't explain it in words, but my gut is screaming you are the "lone scumster" and have somehow decided to actually play the game against your established meta.

[Almost50]

VOTE: Kopherald

I like Taly's analysis

[Almost50]

People keep talking about Tracker hunting when Sando claimed Tracker last day phase. Or am I imagining it?

I also would lynch texcat in a heartbeat, but I don't see many people willing to and I'm not going to push anything in this game after what happened in D1.

[Almost50]

@Taly: I don't have much to say in way of explaining my SR on texcat. I'm just saying if it ain't Kopbrass it's texcat.

And I dunno.. it's been a while and he night took like forever, but I seem to remember I got the feeling it was Sando is the Tracker after I had spent the game starting D2 thinking it was you. Something he said though convinced me he tracked profii to a kill.

Fitz is hard to read for me. His playstyle -in general- is one that could fit a TPR (not applicable here), a VT who is busy IRL (fitz is almost always busy), a Mafioso who is "playing solo" (i.e. making sure he's not linked with the other 2), or the SK. He didn't even make one serious push on anyone for me to try and see if that would come from scum!him or Town!him.

Btw, the same applies to Kop (but it's not the same for brass, whom I do believe to be busy IRL for this current time).

Suffice it to say meta-reading fitz/Kop is useless, and brass has exceptional circumstances that make his lack of activity NAI. texcat is playing within her scum-range though.

[Almost50]

@fitz: And I think the SK would try to hunt down the last Mafia and redirect suspicion off themselves while actively NOT voting the person they

agree

is the last Mafioso.

[Almost50]

It's a classic tell, btw. You want Kop lynched but you don't want to be held responsible just in case he is Town, because if so:

1- Town will be even more suspicious of you, and
2- The last Mafioso may decide to off you based on them seeing you as a threat since you are now hunting them down

[Almost50]

Also very nice of you to have kept a lot of options for you to lynch in any case. EVEN if Kop flips Mafia you have 4 different targets to push vs only 2 to kill at night. If he flips Town, you have lined up 2 "less likely to be Mafia" suspects still, so you're on the safe side. I'd say LUV is your designated NK tonight as he's the only one you never even made mention of in that masterpiece of yours.

[Almost50]

Alright then. I stand corrected. So fitz is FoSing everyone and their neighbor

[Almost50]

I certainly have. I'm not lynching outside you, Kop & texcat.

[Almost50]

Her overall play. As I said, I do not want to go back digging long forgotten details, but do you realize Taly didn't vote either of the lynched Doctors and the only lynch wagon she was on was profii's?

[Almost50]

How does that make him not SK?

Why would the SK want to be on the Mafia lynch and not on Town?

@Taly: Man, you need to change your avi! I keep referring to you as a she because of it!

[Almost50]

^ That is to say I'M SORRY FOR USING THE WRONG PRONOUN

[Almost50]

Yes, which is why they're likely to treat everyone the same, i.e. be on all lynch wagons or on none of them.

[Almost50]

Town don't know anyone's alignments either; does that mean town are likely to be on all wagons or none of them?

Come on, man. Town are trying to lynch scum. SK is trying to lynch everyone but themselves. If I'm Town and TRing someone I won't want to lynch them. If I'm SK it doesn't matter to me if I'm TRing or SRing the subject. I just want them lynched. In other words, I'd try to be on every wagon so as not to be singled out when they flip scum, or I try to avoid every lynch wagon so as not to be called on a town flip. These are not the same at all.

[Almost50]

Why can a SK not have some of both? If they try to be on scum wagons and off town wagons, then they can not be singled out after a scumflip AND not be called out on a town flip.

But they'd be shot by the Mafia at night for looking like they know something (PR) or having better reads.

[Almost50]

VOTE: texcat

Not feeling a Kopbrass lynch today.

[Almost50]

Why can a SK not have some of both? If they try to be on scum wagons and off town wagons, then they can not be singled out after a scumflip AND not be called out on a town flip.

But they'd be shot by the Mafia at night for looking like they know something (PR) or having better reads.

Only if they actually do have better reads. And there's no reason an SK's mafia reads should be better than a townie's mafia reads.

Are you going somewhere with this or are you arguing for the sake of arguing?

TOWN DO NOT CARE IF THEY GET NIGHT-KILLED. THE SERIAL KILLER DOES CARE. It follows that even if they both had identical reads they might not behave the same way. Taly having a TR on either or both Doctors does NOT prevent him from voting them anyway.

[Almost50]

Like, really S_S.. get a grip, my friend. "only if they actually have better reads"?? THAT.. when we're discussing the case at hand where Taly actually ONLY lynched scum and wasn't on either of the Town wagons??

[Almost50]

I have literally wanted to be NKed since N1.

Which is what I'm arguing in some way. You not voting TOWN gets you shot by Mafia. You voting Mafia gets you shot by Mafia. You TRing me all of a sudden gets you shot by both Mafia and SK, so "assuming you're the SK" gets you shot by Mafia. This isn't how someone who wants to survive plays.

[Almost50]

So if an SK is not under pressure... I don't see why they'd particularly avoid being on some wagons and not others, as you're suggesting.

Except I'm suggesting the exact opposite. I'm suggesting they would NOT avoid being on some wagon. Taly DID AVOID being on Town wagons, thus not the SK. Congratulations! You hit JACKPOT!

[Almost50]

I'm not talking about Taly at this point. I'm talking about you saying that SK's will usually be on all lynch wagons or none of them.

If you want me to explain to you how to play as SK I'd be more than glad to do so post-game. Right now I'm interested in trying to solve this game.

In fact, here's a reference. I won this game as the Serial Killer by being on all 4 lynches (granted, we were/I was lucky we lynched the whole scum team in the opening 3 days, but it's the one example I can find off the top of my head).

Now rake a look at this game where fitz was the SK. He avoided both lynches on D1/D2 and got lynched himself on D3.

Please remember that we are arguing how the SK plays, not the outcome of the game or whether it's better to be on or off wagons. These are two examples of SK either being on all lynches or on none of them.

[Almost50]

Bottom line: SK tends to be impartial as to whom is being wagoned. They are either aggressive and would want to appear like they're doing stuff with town, thus appear on every lynch, OR they're passive and want to fly under the radar in which case they avoid being on the main wagons. They can't afford to be on some wagons and not the others, because if the wagons they're on flip Scum they'd be NK'd by scum who might think they're a TPR or are having a good day reading them. If those wagons flip own though they'd be suspected by town for being scum with those they didn't end up voting.

The exception is when they do appear on one town lynch and one scum lynch in the opening 2 days. Only then do they actually have the luxury of avoiding being on the D3 lynch because they've already shown they're not likely group scum and also not having better than average reads.

[Almost50]

I am not sure about fitz and I've explained it's virtually impossible to get a read on him the way he plays. There are exceptions but those depend on certain circumstances. Fitz wasn't on Flavor Leaf, but he was on Jimmy (the two town lynches), then wasn't on Profii. This "could" be SK!him avoiding the first lynch, feeling the urge to be on the second and hoping that it was on scum, but if we apply the same scheme then he should have been on Profii (who was almost confirmed scum by that time).

Scum!fitz (i.e. MAFIA him) would have either been on both Town lynches or off them both still (more likely off them so as not to draw suspicion), but then he would have still bussed his outed p.

Overall, "mechanically" speaking this isn't scum!fitz, but it's hard to tell by play excluding VCA, and fitz isn't exactly 100% predictable to me.

[Almost50]

Applying the same criteria I'd say Kop is the last Mafioso and texcat is the SK (appears on every lynch), but then she would say "but so do you" (I also appear on all lynch wagons), and I wouldn't be able to explain the difference. However, deep inside of me and regardless of the VCA I do feel like this is texcat's scum game. She hasn't been loud enough. She has been "hiding in plain site". It looks like her scum game to me.

[Almost50]

She's also voting fitz over Kop, and I have a feeling it's because she thinks Kop is the last Mafioso and she needs him to do one more kill for her tonight, and maybe even the next night.

6 v 1 v 1 now
5 v 1 v 1 with a mislynch
3 v 1 v 1 tomorrow
then either lynch Kop and kill someone and be in a 2 v 1 LyLo
or lynch a townie and hope Kop would shoot another townie while she shoots him
Basically she's probably relying on her 1 shot BP and 1/3 elemental BP.. like I'm not quite sure what her plan is but texcat is much better than she let's us see

[Almost50]

@Taly: I now what you mean when you say you're annoyed at Mafia. Here's something I sometime do (just sometimes): Type your response in the most offensive form you can. Let all your emotions show. Use obscene vulgarity. When you're done.. reared it.. then delete it. Trust me, it works.

[Almost50]

FTR, long days with minimal activity tend to bore me to the bone. I'd hammer myself if that's what we need to end the day!

P.S. If I ever get to mod games of my own design the deadlines will be 7 days at max.

[Almost50]

Kopherald

did what I expected him to.

Yeah, self-hammering as town will put us at a 3-1-1 mylo most likely, so I'm sure this is a scumlynch.

Why would a lone scumster (be tha a SK or the last Mafioso) self-hammer? That is explicitly playing against one's own wincon.

[Almost50]

I would never self hammer or self vote, regardless of my alignment.

...Seriously, if you're town then I don't understand what your gameplay and I'm sorry.

I do, and it happens out of frustration. I may self-hammer as scum to prevent further association with teammates, but never as the last/lone scum. However, I'd do that as Town (except if we were already in LyLo/MyLo) out of frustration or to objectively remove myself as a distraction.

@brass: Last reads, please?

[Almost50]

You don't suck at Mafia. You just made a mistake. However, you are being obv-town (if you are town that' good, and if you are scum that's even better)

I made it clear that I didn't trust texcat. PoE lead me to believe one of Kop/fitz might be scum indeed, so I wasn't about to fight against the lynch tooth an nail, but I always kept texcat as an option bc I feel she's been playing withing her scum range.

P-edit: LOL, OK. When you've played more with me you might learn to read me when I'm town (and trying to obv-town)

[Almost50]

VOTE: texcat

Not all tunnels are bad. Some tunnels

are

on scum

[Almost50]

Can you give me your reads/thoughts on

Something_Smart, Shadpearl, and havingfitz

?

Town, Town, Scum (but only by PoE)

S_S: I thought doom was scummy af. However, Dino was very town (and he did direct the shot at Jay). Minor chance this is the SK but if so then why argue Shad is conf!Town when that's a mislynch he probably would need to for the win?

Shad: I understand Dino's reasoning to assert this is a town slot. I was skeptical to accept it until Dino got force replaced. In my mind you don't force replace someone for being manipulative. You do so for

truthfully

referencing another ongoing game.

So, it's texcat and Having for me, but I am more confident in texcat (meta, not just PoE) and I am afraid everyone will let her live after I'm gone.

[Almost50]

He did, so look it up and try to figure out what he was saying on your own.

[Almost50]

To put it simply, if I agree equally with the arguments on both sides, then my vote comes down to a coin flip. -But my gutread for Texcat's late-game posts is Town so Havingfits is on the chopping block...

Town? Who IS scum then? Me? The claimed Doctor? S_S? The Mathdino slot? The Slot that basically cleared you? Or is it Taly? The one who has been the Town MVP all game?

You, know what?? I'm withdrawing my TR on Shad. He

could

be the SK here, and that "thing" could be interpreted another way.

Let's talk hypothetical theory: The SK is technically scumhunting for Mafia. They would consider Mafia to be "scum" too. Actually this explains why I have failed to see fitz as a scumster except for PoE. I almost always SR fitz at some point.

So, I'm sticking with the texcat lynch here, and suggest you lynch Shad next if I'm the NK. Of course, if I'm not then I will push it myself.

[Almost50]

I mean, look at it this way: Someone (Shad) who knows there to be 2 scums left, a Mafioso and a SK, and is clearing the ONLY logical option any townie in his place would auto-suspect. It directly points out to someone who is NOT town. I'm not sure is he suspects fitz to be the last Mafia (he's not, 100% of the time), or if he thinks it's texcat and still wants her around to make use of her kill tonight. Eitherway, Shad is the SK. texcat is the 3rd Mafia still.

[Almost50]

Frankly, if Taly is the SK here (ir even if he is the last Mafioso) I don't mind forfeiting the game to him at all. That would be brilliant play and deserves to win.

That said, I do NOT think he is anything bu a devoted townie, so I'm not really playing against my win con when I totally exclude him from the lynch pool.

[Almost50]

Please, Almost50, tell me how havingfitz is not scum to you in PoE

I have always maintained that he

was

scum, but

only

by PoE. In the event Shad turns out to be scum, then -obviously- there's no reason for me to suspect fitz beyond that bc I'm fairly confident texcat is scum by play.

[Almost50]

Almost50

, so

Shadpearl's

self-vote to L-1 in D3

((1181))

doesn't make you question

Shad-SK

?

It does. Thanks for reminding me.

You see, the problem with this game is it feels its started sometime before the fall of the Roman Empire (or is that the Persian??) and is still ongoing, so I forgot most of the "details" and only have the global feel of it intact still.

Seriously! Did you know Open 713, Open 714 and Open 717 have already ended? Did you know Open 723 is the next game on schedule?

[Almost50]

Sorry Taly, I often don't have the time or motivation to explain myself fully, especially when phoneposting, so I tend to drop quick and sometimes ambiguous responses.

I don't think the position you're taking there is reasonable or productive. First of all, it was just an offhand mention of a possibility and not a central point, and second of all, if she does manage to come up with what you asked, it will probably either be a terrible argument or get her confbiased.

I beg to differ here. I took texcat's remark as an attempt to muddy the waters around Taly and my TR on him. Things should be clear cut at this time. Either Taly is a suspect or is not. To me he's not. If someone wants to argue he should be then they need to present a case. A

real

case. A big fat juicy case.

[Almost50]

What's the VC like?

[Almost50]

OK then..

VOTE: havingfitz

[Almost50]

Also, I greatly encourage you to protect yourself tonight,

Almost50

Idgaf if

texcat

sees this.

The probability of my mislynch is much lower if you're alive as well, and we cannot afford a mislynch tomorrow even if we are correct today.

I don't know if I can self-target. It never occurred for me to ask. And chances are I'm going to be pick the wrong element anyway.

[Almost50]

And you're virtually an IC, and we're going into 4p mylo most likely tomorrow.

With 1 scum in 4 living players it is best to NL. One of S_S and Shad will be NK'd, so it's easier for the other to see the light.

@Mod: You won't be confirming anything at this point, so I might as well ask here: Can Doctors self-target in this setup?

[Almost50]

Almost50, you can do what you're most comfortable with, but I think you staying alive is best for town.

There's nothing I can do about it. I simply canNOT target myself, so it's up to texcat.

P.S. Are you hammering his yet?

[Almost50]

I'll just protect you again. FTR, one of the reasons why I TR Taly is this: I have been protecting him for 3 nights now, and there bwas only one kill on N2 & N4, so there is a good chance I saved him at least once.

[Almost50]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Almost50]

DAFUQ?! So I was fucking RIGHT about Doom. The town practically handed scum the win (whichever of them) once again because you're fucking terrible and you only like to mislynch.

Like, I started the game with a fierce attack on Doom (Math, LUV & S_S slot) and have been on texcat for the whole game and nobody ever wanted to listen to me when I was the only publicly confirmed townie around (some even kept suspecting my confirmed status to begin with).

And then you fucking wonder why I don't care to work my ass off in an attempt to solve games? It's because I am fed up with town players being stupid and skeptical about TOWN reads and wishes, but they have no problem following the directions of the SCUM players.

I'm not protecting anyone tonight.

[Almost50]

Mate, you don't need to be sorry. You (and your predecessors) played for your win con fair and square. My peeve is on the TOWN players who let DOOM get away with his play on D1 and even turned it against me, and -as that wasn't enough- they let texcat (who deserves to win too, because it's not her fault people are blind) get away with playing to her scum meta (I don't know how to explain that. I just know that this is scum!texcat). The more I think about it I guess my one and only mistake was pushing Flavor Leaf. My excuse is Golden Paradox had already destroyed that slot before he replaced out.

You know what? I'll just shut up so I won't aggravate the situation, but it really gets to me that town players (in general.. all over the site) almost always side by the scum-motivated cases rather than the town ones even when they are both equally as bad/good.

[Almost50]

I thought there was a decent chance that you were VT for a while as well

And that was the point of my claim, tbh. People who know me know well I could very well fake PR as VT and vise versa, and I was counting on there being someone who knows me in the scum team.

[Almost50]

When it's 2:1:1 always lynch town

Like the two scums are gonna let us.

[Almost50]

LOL WOW.

I was protected every night except for N5.

I have no clue why

Almost50

protected

Something_Smart

though.

Cuz I'm stupid??

And I should've stuck with WATER on N6. Now that would've been interesting (gets us exactly where Creature wanted it to be: 1-1-1)

[Almost50]

N6
A50 protects texcat from Earth

???

See the post above. The plan was for S_S to shoot tex and tex shoot me. If I could have saved tex then we would be in a 1:1:1 scenario.

[Almost50]

It's kinda neat how A50 protected someone who was attacked three times, once on a target from each faction... and the only one it succeeded on was the town one.

Dino can tell you I have a good instinct about whom to protect. He can also testify to the fact it often

backfires

on town anyway.

[Almost50]

Like, if I was a FULL Doctor I would have saved 3 kills, but then that would have saved a Mafioso on D1. I wish I could've saved texcat on N6 still though.

[Almost50]

Dunno why I didn't get the protect on me tbh though, I figured with that much telegraphing it'd come my way, plus it would have been the right element even.

You kept shading me AND Taly (the one I was hard TRing). I wasn't about to protect you over him.