Micro 789 - Alternating 9p - Mafia wins

[Christopher]

Hi. Who’re the goons?

[Christopher]

Do you, or do you not, scumread Rask. Explain plz.

Why is it so difficult to understand? Please help me. I run into this situation a lot. Is it my wording that is unclear? My english is bad? What is it?


I don't scumread rask. I don't townread rask.

Because of the whole process I explained above I forced myself to choose between rask and GL for whom to vote. I compared the 2 and decided rask is more likely to be the scum. Fact that it is the same person I voted for in RVS because his openings pinged me played a part in helping me decide.

BuJaber's opening is pretty standard. That, in and of itself, is NAI. Like he mentioned in #63, based on my recent experience it would be foolish to assume AI based on that.

[Christopher]

@Christopher what do you think of the love, me, and GL interaction

As for lovebird. What she did was definitely pro-town in what it accomplished, but as a tell I think it's complicated. For a newer player I would absolutely townread that because new scum do avoid attention and also aren't even necessarily aware they'd get townread for being pro-town/lamist. OTOH giving lovebird that would be careless, she has some scum games already here with competent level of play and is from offsite before that (not to put paranoia on her either though which would be unfair). That said the thought process itself adds up and 37 is some nuance at least so even if it's "graspy" I don't think it's shallow and don't feel it's scummy.

On the whole I agree with your 47.

I think Lovebird's 37 is pro-town, and I kind of respect the hunt. I see where he was going with it, but I read it more of an integration between RvS and day 1 as opposed to a genuine read. It's similar to how I read Bu's opening.

On the substantive anxious/bored vs checking profiles before-or-after the day started, it's NAI for me.

Sup

The more things seem to change, the more they stay the same

I want to focus on this from Not_Mafia. Even after we were moving on from RvS during the whole love read, Not_Mafia comes in with this? And then follows up with that? Hi Not_Mafia. How are you?

[Christopher]

@Christopher what do you think of the love, me, and GL interaction

As for lovebird. What she did was definitely pro-town in what it accomplished, but as a tell I think it's complicated. For a newer player I would absolutely townread that because new scum do avoid attention and also aren't even necessarily aware they'd get townread for being pro-town/lamist. OTOH giving lovebird that would be careless, she has some scum games already here with competent level of play and is from offsite before that (not to put paranoia on her either though which would be unfair). That said the thought process itself adds up and 37 is some nuance at least so even if it's "graspy" I don't think it's shallow and don't feel it's scummy.

On the whole I agree with your 47.

I think Lovebird's 37 is pro-town, and I kind of respect the hunt. I see where he was going with it, but I read it more of an integration between RvS and day 1 as opposed to a genuine read. It's similar to how I read Bu's opening.

On the substantive anxious/bored vs checking profiles before-or-after the day started, it's NAI for me.

Sup

The more things seem to change, the more they stay the same

I want to focus on this from Not_Mafia. Even after we were moving on from RvS during the whole love read, Not_Mafia comes in with this? And then follows up with that? Hi Not_Mafia. How are you?

Sup, I'm well, how are you?

gucci, my dude.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Christopher]

tr Greenliquid.

leantown on BuJaber, Iconeum, and Lovebird.

Major's afk, and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

tbh, I'm null on ZZZX and Rask.

leanscum on no content Not_Mafia.

[Christopher]

@Christopher: I made a post before you posted either of those two posts... I'm not AFK.

@Lovebird: Because I believe not stating reasons and just jumping on something you feel in your gut is "easy" is a good way to appear to let other people fill in your reasons for you.
There's nothing pro-town about withholding reasons.

You’re right. I didn’t mean to imply you were completely afk, but rather were afk and were catching up.

[Christopher]

@Raskolnikov: Is your vote switch to Not_Mafia on the basis of anything other than lack of content?

gucci, my dude.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Same question @Christopher.

Both. The lack of content is one side of the coin, and the substantive (lack of) help provided by Not_Mafia causes me to scumread.

[Christopher]

VOTE: Major Minor

Ya, I'm fine with this wagon. I stand by my reads.

Honestly, BuJaber's opening so far is NAI. FMPOV, it's just his town and scum opening.

[Christopher]

Do you, or do you not, scumread Rask. Explain plz.

Why is it so difficult to understand? Please help me. I run into this situation a lot. Is it my wording that is unclear? My english is bad? What is it?


I don't scumread rask. I don't townread rask.

Because of the whole process I explained above I forced myself to choose between rask and GL for whom to vote. I compared the 2 and decided rask is more likely to be the scum. Fact that it is the same person I voted for in RVS because his openings pinged me played a part in helping me decide.

BuJaber's opening is pretty standard. That, in and of itself, is NAI. Like he mentioned in #63, based on my recent experience it would be foolish to assume AI based on that.

tr Greenliquid.

leantown on BuJaber, Iconeum, and Lovebird.

Major's afk, and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

tbh, I'm null on ZZZX and Rask.

leanscum on no content Not_Mafia.

VOTE: Major Minor

Ya, I'm fine with this wagon. I stand by my reads.

Honestly, BuJaber's opening so far is NAI. FMPOV, it's just his town and scum opening.

Care to explain how you come to a Bujaber 'light townread' conclusion after stating and re-stating that everything he's done so far is NAI?
You put others in a null read, so that's where I expect you to place Buj based on your posting.

What's up with that?

Like I said previously, the opening itself (for me) is NAI--like BuJaber mentioned when he and I last played together we were both scum. He had the same inquisitive opening (as scum), however I could easily see how BuJaber (as town) would use the same approach. For me, in this game, the opening in and of itself is NAI.

Which leads me to my read...

Setting aside the above meta, I read BuJaber as slight town. From my POV in this game, his content has been generally pro-town.

I acknowledge that I need to be careful of being pocketed by Bu if he's scum, but that's more of a day 2 analysis (imo).

@BU: Me townleaning on you causes you to scum read me? That's super scummy. Has your analysis of me changed in light of this post?

[Christopher]

I saw his comments that my posts are NAI but did not see that he also claimed I was a townlean. The townlean isn't the problem alone but he hasn't given any reason for me to move from null to townlean as you pointed out.

But my list is very good for associations. Say rask flips scum for example. It clears Love and GL for me (until lylo at least).
Say NM flips scum. I'd focus less on you and more at the GL/Love/Rask trio.

TBF, how successful has your early pool strategy been? I mean no disrespect, but its validity is built on a house of sand.

You're developing scum pools based on very early/RVS reads which kind of lock you in. You then use those reads to confidently narrow-down your scumpool.

On one hand, it's as valid as any other early-game strategy to identify scum. On the other hand, you're kind of locked-in to your reads lest you get accused of waffling (SCUM BEHAVIOR!!! ) or being wrong and you're letting a scum slip by.

[Christopher]

But to be honest as I said previously I think I'd catch you if you were scum. I'm more inclined to sense it if you're scum given that that's the only meta I know.

FWIW agreed 100%

[Christopher]

FWIW,

Not_Mafia is at L-2

[Christopher]

Would rather Chris.

Why chris SR

NM is town you fools.

Why

Chris has done nothing that looks genuinely towny and seems to want to vote anybody that's under suspicion instead of sorting for himself. I'll go into this more when I have time.

NM is most likely town from meta and for being the first person scum have tried to wagon.

You're wrong. I was the person who started the wagon on NM. I am the person who cast suspicion on NM. I did sort NM into my scum pool because I voted him.

[Christopher]

Would rather Chris.

Why chris SR

NM is town you fools.

Why

Chris has done nothing that looks genuinely towny and seems to want to vote anybody that's under suspicion instead of sorting for himself. I'll go into this more when I have time.

NM is most likely town from meta and for being the first person scum have tried to wagon.

tr Greenliquid.

leantown on BuJaber, Iconeum, and Lovebird.

Major's afk, and i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

tbh, I'm null on ZZZX and Rask.

leanscum on no content Not_Mafia.

How is this guy not at L-1?

Care to explain?

One thing that you're apparently tunneling me over is being the first to post substance.

I posted my reads and this was your reply. I started the NM wagon and you scumlean me.

[Christopher]

@Bu and Ino: this is a late reply from page 7, but you asked about why I was townleaning on BU. See my 163. I'm not going to re-hash this.

[Christopher]

NM is most likely town from meta

Can you go into detail

In his town meta he is a troll. He looks pretty trolly here.

How do you think his meta is his scum meta here?

Setting aside your meta (which doesn't help us much here, in this game), what is your read of NM?

[Christopher]

Can you prod christopher?

I'm back. I'll get thoughts up later...interesting to see where day 1 has gone since I last posted.

[Christopher]

Christopher can I get something more out of you.

Whatever reads are the things you feel most strongly about, even if its townreads I'd be interested in hearing about.

I think your top TR was GL, also interested in what you make of iconeum atm.

I TR GL for #263 and #279. I'm not quoting both here, but #263 is the defense of my NM read which I would have given, and 279 is indicative of his overall pro-town content.

@CheekyTeeky: A couple of problems I have with your catch-up:

215: Iconeum couldn't have been fanning the Not_Mafia wagon here because there wasn't one yet -- the only vote was Raskie's random vote. I see that you read the vote count before you started re-reading, so this is a reasonable mistake.
224: I don't see this at all. Not_Mafia is literally the only person he'd pushed at that point.

I think also there is too much focus on Not_Mafia's supposed unreadability and not enough on what in particular he's been doing this game. I looked at a couple of his completed town games ([1][2]) and there is... quite a difference from his play this game. Even in the one where he was most laconic, Micro 773, he was still pushing players, agreeing with reads, and engaging at least in a minor way. In this game, he's not doing any of that, and in addition cast an unexplained vote in 151 before going on to imply no one was scummy in 175, and has been moving his vote around opportunistically nearly all of today. I'm also a bit annoyed that he's refusing to answer my questions on these points.

On the other hand, my biggest problem with lynching him is that his lack of content means we won't get much associative info from his flip aside from analyzing the wagon. He also gives me vibes that Virtuoso gave me in my newbie game (cast unexplained vote, refused to engage, etc.) who eventually turned out to be town and one of the best solvers in that game.

Saying that Not_Mafia can't be read, like he's some kind of Mafia enigma, seems like nonsense in light of the above. If the games I looked at aren't representative, let me know, but besides that I don't see any reason not to suspect him right now.

@CheekyTeeky: A couple of problems I have with your catch-up:

Thank you for your thoughts I'll relook taking them into consideration.

Cheeky, I'd like to follow-up on this analysis of NM from GL. How does GL's reads of NM's previous games affect or influence your read of NM in this game? You dismiss the idea that NM is/maybe scum because of meta, but what about this game specifically?

[Christopher]

VOTE: not mafia
Fuck it, I want to wagon not mafia now.

N_M's been posting elsewhere onsite the whole time which to some extent just makes me want to say fuck him. Icon's statement there is also consistent with my skims and was mainly why I think icon might be paying attention, though from experience saying meta on people you've played isn't that difficult either when scum so eh.

But I'm also lacking a bit in scumreads atm.

3 people have posted today :hmm:

I don't get why you're acting like the game has to end now? We have more than a week left and Rask is speaking as if the day is about to end and we don't have time to scum hunt. This is even more ridiculous given that people have started moving their votes around a bit.

You're absolutely right, I want to see a flip soon.

Rask looks like eager town to me.