Micro 792: Three in One (Day 6)

[Something_Smart]

Glad I'm town, as this game is heavily biased against scum.

[Something_Smart]

PenguinPower has now made the first, second, third, fifth, seventh, and eleventh posts.
One is special, and all those others are prime...
Does that make PenguinPower the... *puts on sunglasses*... prime suspect?

[Something_Smart]

And thirteenth, now. The implications are obvious.

[Something_Smart]

Bambi provably increases mafia winrate

Oh, Bambi is a Jaydragonking alt?

[Something_Smart]

Wait actually?

[Something_Smart]

[Something_Smart]

The real question is... do you lynch people just to get them to shut up?

Because your cousin did that, and it was very annoying.

[Something_Smart]

Tracker claim is a terrible idea.

[Something_Smart]

A1: Cop/Neapolitan - Scum get screwed if they fakeclaim tracker but at least they ensure that they don't hit two VT's N1 (which can cost them the game)
A2: JK/Doctor - Scum can safely claim tracker, neutralizing BOTH town PR's
A3: Cop/Doctor - Scum can safely claim tracker
B1: Cop/Tracker - Scum can kill the tracker N1
B2: JK/Tracker - Scum can hit the tracker N1, neutralizing BOTH town PR's and revealing the exact setup
B3: Neapolitan/Doctor - Scum will know the exact setup
C1: Cop/VT - Scum can safely claim tracker (and NEVER be counterclaimed)
C2: JK/VT - Scum can safely claim tacker (and NEVER be counterclaimed)
C3: Tracker/Doctor - Scum will know the exact setup

[Something_Smart]

That's good for town in MAYBE 2 out of 9 cases.

[Something_Smart]

Make that MAYBE 3 out of 9.

[Something_Smart]

No, they only know 3 possible setups. In B and C, they will know for sure what the setup is.

For instance, if it's B3 and we do the tracker claim strategy, scum can fakeclaim cop to avoid being lynched and nobody can call them out until a PR dies (and then it's a 1v1).

[Something_Smart]

Cop/neapolitan is already bad for scum. I don't think goon lynch followed by guaranteed PR NK is that bad of an outcome for scum, and I certainly think that the reward in the other two setups is worth it. (If a PR died after a tracker claimed D1 and somebody counterclaimed a different role, are you really saying you'd side with the counterclaimer?)

And scum can increase their odds in C by having the member they intend to have fakeclaim wait until most townies have claimed.

In any event, I'm with PenguinPower. Not participating.

[Something_Smart]

because tracker is a dumb useless role anyway and is more useful as an innocent child that can't die

tracker is a cop after a scumflip, what are you talking about?

[Something_Smart]

The cop wouldn't have to claim, just the neapolitan. So it's not THAT good for scum.

In any event we can take this to MD after the game.

[Something_Smart]

Is that line more characteristic of scum-him?

[Something_Smart]

This doesn't come from scum imo.

Disagree

[Something_Smart]

So you scum read me for spam?

How did you arrive at this conclusion?

[Something_Smart]

When I get to the end of a 4 page catch up and I remember you participating a fair amount but don't have a read I'll assume you're scum until proven innocent. Mwahaha. >.>

But... there are more town than scum... so a random person with no information is more likely to be town.

[Something_Smart]

people townread jay more often when he's scum than when he's town

the primary way to get a lynch on him when he's scum is basically policy

I played with him twice, both as town, and I think he was a universal townread both games. So I don't know if that is completely true.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think scum-Gamma has a hard time faking gamesolving.

[Something_Smart]

Still afraid of my scum game that much, huh?

I think he's afraid of your towngame more

[Something_Smart]

Lol

[Something_Smart]

With Mathdino on this one.

What is it that you think is the problem with your towngame?

In my experience you seem to be too trusting of charismatic people and distrusting of uncharismatic people.

[Something_Smart]

Reason?

[Something_Smart]

don't sheep mathdino.

[Something_Smart]

Not because your reads are bad, just because you can't really be locktowned by play and people should only be sheeped if they are locktown.

[Something_Smart]

And you really shouldn't be assuming that Bambi will sheep you because even if you do get cleared, her reads will be more informed than yours.

[Something_Smart]

Even if so, that doesn't change anything.

[Something_Smart]

Why is that an "if"?

[Something_Smart]

Are we making existential comics references now?

This is me in Jester Nightless.

[Something_Smart]

Do you think that's alignment indicative?

[Something_Smart]

have pushed a lot of strategies in open games and your reaction is most similar to scum reactions in my experience

elaborate pls

[Something_Smart]

Disclaimer: I know very little about philosophy and have seen only a select few of these webcomics.

You should read them; based on that awesome image you'd probably enjoy them a lot

[Something_Smart]

Ep, teach me how to make memes. Dino will follow me to the ends of the Earth if I make them well enough.

do you scumread me?

[Something_Smart]

I have no reason NOT to scumread you, so if ya want one of the votes off you, you gotta ask Cheeky or mister Penguin.

Okay Math I'm gaining interest in your PL.

[Something_Smart]

But... there are more town than scum... so a random person with no information is more likely to be town.

Is this a reason not to scumread me?

[Something_Smart]

Because there is no need to move my vote, your suddenly behind Dino?

Your values are to be remembered in the far reaches of the Galaxy, far after Earth in but fodder for the expanding red sun.

--- P Edit ---

That's NAI, or if you want to be specific, not something I care about.

I'm not talking at all about your vote right now. I'm talking about your read on me.

In the absence of anything to change it, it should start out as null. Why is it at scum?

[Something_Smart]

Also Math I hope you see my scumgame someday, because then I guarantee you'll stop putting me at null.

[Something_Smart]

Guilty until Proven Innocent.

Why?

[Something_Smart]

Sorry EP

[Something_Smart]

Math, NSG reacted in a somewhat similar way... so why is she so strongly town?

[Something_Smart]

Honestly Smart's reaction to the strategy would be hard-town in a vacuum. It's clear he actually believes his POV on that.

The question then becomes "does he fake setup spec that he thinks is pro-town, and is that in his scumrange".

So I'm open to commentary on that.

Edit: @Gamma: I wrote "Gamma can be town" but then I realised you could actually legit be sucking up to me and switched you to nulltown.

Yeah because as scum I would just fakeclaim tracker

In all seriousness though, what vacuum do you mean?

[Something_Smart]

No, I know, it's a joke.

I would probably have considered it, though.

[Something_Smart]

Also

You only respect my scumplay

Because you've never seen it

[Something_Smart]

These are probably my best recent scumgames.
Cosmopolitan (playing as the then-secret alt iiSq5024)
Chocolate Mafia
I can give you context if you want, or you can just take a completely unbiased look.

[Something_Smart]

Yep.

[Something_Smart]

In response to a question I recieved about playing to one’s wincon, I have decided to make the following rule change: the winners are decided by whoever won the most games. I will take full responsinility for any negative ramifications this change causes. But hopefully your win condition should be clear in basically every situation:

your goal should be to win as many games as possible.

Emphasis mine

It is acceptable to take future games into account.

[Something_Smart]

You might have to be town by PoE considering I definitely have stronger scumreads elsewhere.

don't play this game

[Something_Smart]

You might have to be town by PoE considering I definitely have stronger scumreads elsewhere.

How does that square with this:

N_Mtown/NSGtown leaves
Smart-town pending meta review
Penguin-scum
Bambi-lynchable
Gamma-unreadable
CT-too soon to tell but i will ISO this in a bit
Red I'm actually not locking a read on yet, but I also forgot Polygamist ever happened, so rereading that will be a fantastic meta reminder.

...where you seem to have only one scumread of any strength at all?

[Something_Smart]

CT I'm getting really bad feelings about but a lot of that is "I just got screwed by her scumgame so everything pings me now".

It's definitely not just you

[Something_Smart]

...Yeah it is?

[Something_Smart]

Because I feel a kindred spirit.

How's that alignment indicative?

[Something_Smart]

Overview of RedFlavor's towngames suggests he's town here. I think I'm seeing the difference between his towngame and scumgame.

what have we learned about doing this?

[Something_Smart]

Explain where your bad feelings are coming from Something_Smart.

Feels like you're not trying to interact and instead you're just commenting on stuff in order to look like you're participating.

[Something_Smart]

Bad read. Read again.

Did so. Still don't see it, but you also don't seem to be pushing any agenda so you're okay for now.

[Something_Smart]

Is that what active lurking is?

[Something_Smart]

That's not at all what town-Creature does, and it's not really what I'm talking about.
I really just mean the more general posting to appear superficially town-motivated.

Smart help me read Penguin, i'm clearly mad biased there

So am I though.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah how Cheeky understood it is pretty accurate

[Something_Smart]

There's no motivation for scum Penguin to drop an AtE when he's under not very much pressure early game.

...except if it's genuinely how he feels?

[Something_Smart]

Mathdino is not a good Day 1 lynch.

SS would be my scumlean atm since his very first post. Just haven't like anything from him since. More of a toneread.

Tonereading only works if you know exactly how to apply it to the particular person you are tonereading, and even then it's tricky.

Bottom line: you can't toneread me.

[Something_Smart]

SS who are your biggest SRs?

None strong enough to warrant mentioning.

[Something_Smart]

Off the top of my head, her scumread on me ONLY makes sense if she thinks I don't actually intend to get her lynched.

Why is this?

[Something_Smart]

...not particularly, but is it important that you not tell me until she gets back?

[Something_Smart]

It has to make sense for scum-me to progress on you like that.

why

[Something_Smart]

Because if it doesn't make sense for scum-me to progress on NSG like that, then her scumread on me is no bueno.

I mean, scum can do things that don't make sense...

[Something_Smart]

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

Or when people start talking about you.

[Something_Smart]

Even if I were scum, winning this game is not my win condition.

It would be a necessary part of it.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[Something_Smart]

Gamma, why is showy scummy?

[Something_Smart]

Sort of, but that post makes me cringe when I try to read it...

I don't really see why having forced jokes makes him scummy, I feel like he'd be able to joke just as well as either alignment.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald FOR GREAT JUSTICE

Why is this?

FOR GREAT JUSTICE

because you're about the only person I don't townread (other than Not_Mafia who I'm not going to push at this point in time) and I've seen you do towny things early on in other games

Sort of, but that post makes me cringe when I try to read it...

I don't really see why having forced jokes makes him scummy, I feel like he'd be able to joke just as well as either alignment.

Forced jokes = he's not really into doing them, but he's doing it anyway to try and look like standard NM

Why would he be less into them as scum?

[Something_Smart]

Should clarify that. Only person I don't townread to SOME degree. Most of them are slight.

[Something_Smart]

I think it's personality to feel the need for levity

[Something_Smart]

Particularly in his case. I don't think he has to force himself to make jokes as scum.

[Something_Smart]

But they still feel forced :/

Maybe! But my point is that's not alignment indicative, just indicative of his jokes not being particularly good-quality. (Not that I even think they're particularly bad)

[Something_Smart]

w/e
what about the otther pouints

The only post you addressed in 555 that was not a joke was 111. I don't see why that looks like a fake excuse for a read rather than a real read (and I really don't understand what you mean by "giving a read for the sake of giving a read", because isn't sharing their thoughts something townies should do for its own sake?), and I also disagree with the implicit assumption that scum care less about pushing their reads than town, especially since town can have varying strengths of scumreads not all of which are strong enough to warrant a vote.

[Something_Smart]

And you assumed that someone doing something that didn't make sense was scum?

[Something_Smart]

Me or Gamma?

[Something_Smart]

Not_Mafia clearly has more going on in his head than he cares to share with the class. It's not as if nothing happened between 111 and his vote to inform any of his reads.

[Something_Smart]

I don't think Math's logic is right. He would have to be playing an extremely self-assured scumgame to be planning for the future in addition to trying to win this game, and since there are apparently several people here who know his scumgame I'd think that as scum he would prioritize winning this game (since he'd HAVE to do that to not be eliminated) over anything else in the later games.

[Something_Smart]

Even if that's not true, I believe that nsg could have believed it when she voted, which would mean that at least, her vote DID make sense.

[Something_Smart]

playing "politically" is fabricating your reads in such a way to try to get rid of players where it hurts you to have them around and keeping around players that benefit you to have them around. an example for mathdino would be keeping newbies around who townread a loud / dominant playstyle and getting rid of the more experienced players who might see through it. something_smart can probably describe this better than i can.

Just read jester nightless

[Something_Smart]

If NSG is town, I'm town by virtue of "what the fuck is Math doing trying to get a mislynch on town-NSG hurting his future games".

He would have to be playing an extremely self-assured scumgame to be planning for the future in addition to trying to win this game, and since there are apparently several people here who know his scumgame I'd think that as scum he would prioritize winning this game (since he'd HAVE to do that to not be eliminated) over anything else in the later games.

[Something_Smart]

The first part is just idiotic in general.

[Something_Smart]

oh boy how about we flip NSG to determine gamma's alignment

that will definitely work.

[Something_Smart]

oh boy how about we flip NSG to determine gamma's alignment

that will definitely work.

can't tell if sarcasm

me? sarcastic? never...

[Something_Smart]

interesting irrelevant point: the last time you warned me against "giving scum ideas" you were scum yourself lol

the real question is, did she get any ideas from you?

[Something_Smart]

In the great battle of Math vs NSG, who do choose?

Do I have to choose one?

[Something_Smart]

You don't even believe what you are saying.

why use this many words to say "you are scum"

[Something_Smart]

Edit: Gamma I don't know how you could possibly read Math vs NSG and think we're both town at this point.

I don't know how you could possibly be positive that you're not.

(Actually, I can think of one way...)

[Something_Smart]

Hypothetically yes please. Pretend you 3 are at LyLo.

Okay, just tell me how everyone else flipped and I can answer.

There's not really a way to answer that question that has much relevance. If I had to vote one I'd probably pick Mathdino if only because the arguments he's making are ones I would expect him to know better than to make as town. Not that I believe that particularly strongly, but I don't think that either one's case on the other has a shred of validity so my strategy would amount to voting one and then voting the other if the first flipped town. (I tried to use this to determine logically which would be better to lynch first, but I realized that the odds of the second flipping scum after the first flips town are necessarily the same no matter which is lynched first.)

[Something_Smart]

lmao #buzzwords

[Something_Smart]

Plan:

We lynch NSG, when she flips scum we quicklynch bambietta and not_mafia then win

Are you townreading everyone else?

[Something_Smart]

Why tho

[Something_Smart]

UNVOTE:

[Something_Smart]

I think they have a PL partner because their first posts were about being absolutely opposite to PL'ing

If she in general has an anti-policy lynch stance, but she suddenly supports them this game, don't you think that would look suspicious to the people who know her?

[Something_Smart]

Mathdino that is maybe the worst point made so far this game, what are you talking about

[Something_Smart]

Northsidegal, do you normally oppose policy lynches? If so, can you point me to a few instances where you did?

[Something_Smart]

Something_Smart if you had to objectively assess your own alignment through your posts, what read would you have and what would a reasonable strength of the read be?

Obvious town

[Something_Smart]

It looks like she has me at null; where'd you get that from?

[Something_Smart]

Yes I'm probably wrong

About what?

[Something_Smart]

(correct me if I'm wrong)

You're wrong

[Something_Smart]

I think it's TvT just as much as you (Math) think it's TvT. Can't tell exactly how much that is (80-90%? 98%?) but I'm pretty ready to lynch you if it flips town.

[Something_Smart]

Please don't form massive quote pyramids; just quote the text you are responding to so each post contains a single non-nested quote.

[Something_Smart]

Because I wasn't ready to end the day yet?

[Something_Smart]

Also I wasn't sure it wasn't TvT. Are you sure it wasn't TvT?

[Something_Smart]

Hypoclaim Math inno.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

[Something_Smart]

Why would I ever kill Math there?

[Something_Smart]

Why would I ever kill Math there?

Who would then?

Pretty much anyone else?

Math was hard townreading me.

[Something_Smart]

Lynching off the wagon is a win I'm almost certain, they're 3 scummiest people

Mhm I'd sure love to hear why you this S_S is scummy

Actually, I kind of want the flip side of this. Why do you think I'm town?

[Something_Smart]

What approximately would your readlist look like?

[Something_Smart]

Math asked me for links...

[Something_Smart]

Also the point of the links is not that I'm willing to give them; you should READ the links. Just because I'm aware of my meta doesn't mean I can replicate it with any degree of success as scum.

[Something_Smart]

Too self-aware for what?

[Something_Smart]

Look at how he keeps trying to keep lynch options available while giving bad reasoning on Gamma vote.

This is begging the question. You're describing what my motivation would be assuming I'm scum, and then saying that therefore it's scummy.

[Something_Smart]

1. I don't think somebody's presence on that wagon affects their chance of being scum. The way it formed, with very loud support from Math who then died, means that it was likely to go through whether scum bussed or not.
2. Townreads are you because your play yesterday and today doesn't seem agenda driven, Not_Mafia because he had a decent chance of walking into a forced loss by hammering nsg before she could draw a PR cc, and RedFlavor because I trust Math's meta.

[Something_Smart]

Pedit: too self-aware in general. Like it looked like you cared about how Math was seeing you and you cared about remaining ambiguous with your reads in a way I think town are not. I wouldn't worry about EBWOPing the strength of my reads with a post when I'm not being asked about the strength of my reads. Keeping your reads undefined helps scum you not town you imo.

Maybe not, but you and I are different people. I try to make myself as clear as possible and always say exactly what I mean. I didn't mean to imply that I thought literally every other player except Gamma was town, and so I hastened to correct that.

[Something_Smart]

Forgot the second part of 2. I came into the day thinking scum was probably in <Gamma, PenguinPower>. Been thinking about Bambi and have not come to a conclusion yet.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Bambi L +3

[Something_Smart]

NSG should have fakeclaimed tracker

[Something_Smart]

My hypo was the best

[Something_Smart]

Inb4 cop claim

[Something_Smart]

Actually that reminds me

Math we gotta do the tracker claim this game, I'll start

Not tracker

[Something_Smart]

Its Bird 7p not 2d3..

thatsthejoke.gif

[Something_Smart]

Also lol at nsg in the scum PT trying to get Bambi to fakeclaim tracker. Told you so Math

[Something_Smart]

i also think that pushback against optimal strategies (especially claiming strategies) more often comes from scum but w/e

[Something_Smart]

the trick is to not scumread anyone

then you can't scumread any PR's, simple.

[Something_Smart]

okay let's play a better game

say you were scum and i was all "ey dude i'm fukin vigging u if u don't come up with reads"

what reads would you fake

Mathdino locktown ofc

[Something_Smart]

This Math push seems tactical

you're wrong

Fixed

[Something_Smart]

Is that RVS? Why vote me for a joke?

[Something_Smart]

???

[Something_Smart]

The PP wagon went to L-1 within three posts of the day starting... how hard is it to look at who's on it?

[Something_Smart]

Also sure. Jokes don't necessarily advance the game. But hey, it's a GAME. It's supposed to be fun

[Something_Smart]

The PP wagon went to L-1 within three posts of the day starting... how hard is it to look at who's on it?

Do you think chweky is scum for asking that

Not really, looks like a genuine attempt to generate content.

[Something_Smart]

Yes that's true. I like fun. Winning is fun XD

So then if you're town, take your vote off town

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, claiming being cautious of getting pr hunter is opposite of being cautios

Yes, aaaaand hypocrisy is a towntell.

Gamma is town GG.

[Something_Smart]

Is that RVS? Why vote me for a joke?

Actually SS might be scum, this reads way too self-coinscious

Also didn't I just have this conversation with Cheeky?

[Something_Smart]

And I was town

[Something_Smart]

Or did you mean this game

[Something_Smart]

Claiming that you are afraid of getting PRhunted is basically claiming that you are a PR. But if you were really cautious of getting PRhunted you would not mention being cautious of getting PRhunted, because saying that you are cautious of getting PRhunted is basically telling scum to kill you.

Well, it's WIFOMing at least. In a game with three VT's being obv VT is still pretty bad for town.

[Something_Smart]

Claiming that you are afraid of getting PRhunted is basically claiming that you are a PR. But if you were really cautious of getting PRhunted you would not mention being cautious of getting PRhunted, because saying that you are cautious of getting PRhunted is basically telling scum to kill you.

No? I'm cautious of pushing anyone because they might drop PR tells. Where did I refer to myself getting PR hunted in that post?

Come On People, i'm obviously town!

[Something_Smart]

The first two town members to vote for no lynch are eliminated

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: Mathdino FOR GREAT JUSTICE

[Something_Smart]

We need to get back on track guys

[Something_Smart]

Well, do you have any townreads yet?

[Something_Smart]

Also my worst fear is that you talk your way out of getting lynched tomorrow.

so much deja vu...

[Something_Smart]

Mathdino was the better lynch.

If this is town Math absolutely hangs tomorrow.

[Something_Smart]

If Math/Cheeky is TvT, then the two of them get eliminated as punishment.

I don't mind that at all.

[Something_Smart]

Actually it was to avoid getting NK'd.

VOTE: PenguinPower

[Something_Smart]

GL in LYLO though, since apparently NOBODY can distinguish PR's from scum

[Something_Smart]

Smart literally crumbed Come On People

See, this is a scumtell for Math: taking things too seriously.

That was VERY OBVIOUSLY a joke and even though that IS my role there's no way he would have seen it as a serious crumb as town.

[Something_Smart]

Gamma and Not_Mafia: First, PLEASE take your time here. Second, you are accusing me of trying to chain-lynch Math, when Math drove through a lynch on town to the point of saying town deserved to lose if they were both town, and I was in favor of lynching Math the whole day.

[Something_Smart]

And why cop the obvious candidate for tomorrow’s lynch?

Why was I the obvious candidate?

Math drove through a lynch on Cheeky to the point that she said he was 100% scum.

[Something_Smart]

Not_Mafia, if you think Math is town, please tell me why.

[Something_Smart]

I copped him because he crumbed my role and I was having trouble reading him

...Do you guys remember in literally the previous game when I showed Math my scum meta and he agreed that it was like night and day and that I was very likely town?

Oh, and another thing. From a Mathdino-cop point of view, even if he thought that that was a real crumb (press X to doubt) then he would have expected that I would then claim cop as scum.... so why would he then check someone whom he expected to counterclaim him?

[Something_Smart]

Because if you were a VT, you would've crumbed cop to draw the nightkill

So you checked someone whom you thought was either VT or a scum intending to counterclaim you?

[Something_Smart]

You think Gamma is more easily readable than me?

[Something_Smart]

This narrative makes perfect sense given Math's previous experience with others claiming his role. Not_Mafia you know what I mean.

What makes you say that?

[Something_Smart]

Fair.

I want to have some back-and-forth with one or both of you when I'm not on mobile, which is why I want you to not rush. This day will certainly decide this specific game and if you vote wrong it might decide the whole game as well.

[Something_Smart]

Also unrelated but the stupid crumb joke was not the first time this round that Math took a joke too seriously. The first time he did it was right after he memed by repeating what nsg said, and I memed by repeating what HE said but he didn't realize it and instead responded like it was serious. That was one of the reasons I ended up thinking he was scum.

[Something_Smart]

How would it decide the whole game?

If I am lynched and Math and Penguin roll opposite alignments in Vengeful, nobody else can win.

[Something_Smart]

How would it decide the whole game?

If I am lynched and Math and Penguin roll opposite alignments in Vengeful, nobody else can win.

I thought winning earlier games was just for brownie points

It was until I pointed out to EP that townies can throw in LYLO to ensure they advance.

[Something_Smart]

On and off throughout the week, I'm sure a time can be found.

Right now, I really want to know what you and Not_Mafia are thinking, because I think that Mathdino's play makes very little sense as town and a huge amount of sense as scum (though of course I am biased).

[Something_Smart]

Why do you find me scummy?

[Something_Smart]

You should look again at the circumstances surrounding the joke crumb.

Claiming that you are afraid of getting PRhunted is basically claiming that you are a PR. But if you were really cautious of getting PRhunted you would not mention being cautious of getting PRhunted, because saying that you are cautious of getting PRhunted is basically telling scum to kill you.

No? I'm cautious of pushing anyone because they might drop PR tells. Where did I refer to myself getting PR hunted in that post?

Come On People, i'm obviously town!

I literally quoted Gamma saying he was afraid of people dropping PR tells and used a smiley. There is no way that this could be interpreted as a serious crumb rather than a joke.

[Something_Smart]

Mathdino was the better lynch.

If this is town Math absolutely hangs tomorrow.

I didn't like this comment post lynch

Why not? From my point of view it was absolutely right and consistent with what I was pushing all day.

[Something_Smart]

And I was also trying to ensure that scum!Math would not be able to kill me without painting a target on his back.

[Something_Smart]

If it's a joke, then it shouldn't be HIS ACTUAL ROLECLAIM.

Why's that?

Humor is humor. I'd make that joke no matter WHAT my role.

[Something_Smart]

So we should lynch Penguin today then

Probably, yes. Then it will be ONE of you/Gamma deciding rather than both (where both have to get it right).

[Something_Smart]

Also Math literally admitted it was a jokey post and then went on to ignore the possibility that it was a joke that had no bearing on my role.

[Something_Smart]

And you don't fucking openly crumb your role. People say they'd do that but they straight up don't.

Eddie Cane did it in Chocolate Mafia.

Gimme a minute to go find the quote.

[Something_Smart]

Subject: Mini Normal 1897: Chocolate Mafia - Game Over

someone should unvote before ss hammers and I'm forced to vig him

[Something_Smart]

Eddie Cane is a more shoot from the hip player than either of us

Which has no bearing on whether he'd WIFOM his role like that.

And you KNOW that I would WIFOM my role like that because I did it in Lone Wolf.

[Something_Smart]

So it's logical to expect him to comb for that sort of crumb as well, which seems to be what he did from reading further down.

This is not what I'm arguing, he obviously SAW it as I expected everyone to see it. I'm talking about him intentionally ignoring the possibility that I just wanted to make a joke because of some bullshit about how "a real cop wouldn't joke crumb their role".

[Something_Smart]

smart does not crumb his actual role as PR, he crumbs in a way that draws or dodges the nightkill accordingly

You should cite all the non-role-madness games I've played before where I've drawn an investigative role.

...I'll wait.

[Something_Smart]

this game is more evidence for that rule

So... where is the OTHER evidence?

[Something_Smart]

there is 0 fucking reason to think that mafia wouldn't just fucking shoot him straight up in this game for openly crumbing C-O-P

"There is 0 reason to think that mafia wouldn't shoot someone for making a joke."

Gamma. Listen to his argument here. Even he admitted that it was clearly a joke AND that his first thought was that I was VT trying to draw the NK... and now he says there's no reason to believe that scum won't kill me.

[Something_Smart]

this game is more evidence for that rule

So... where is the OTHER evidence?

have you ever seen a player with a non-eddie-cane/MU-esque playstyle openly crumb their role as that role

RC?

[Something_Smart]

on this site, scum kills people for making jokes like that, full stop

Every time?

[Something_Smart]

So... I have no reason to believe that the scum are not terrible at PR hunting. Is what you're saying.

[Something_Smart]

When you are in this game.

[Something_Smart]

I never pointed to it as a crumb. I'm freely admitting that I'd do the same as doc, VT, or scum.

It was nothing more than a joke, with maybe a bit of WIFOM added to make scum think I wasn't cop.

[Something_Smart]

@Gamma.

[Something_Smart]

but if you were trying to dodge the kill from me, then openly implying "i'm tunneling math tomorrow" is EXACTLY HOW TO GET ME TO KILL YOU

If I die, it looks TERRIBLE for you.

It kinda sounds like it's exactly how to get you to 1v1 me in LYLO.

[Something_Smart]

Which thoughts?

[Something_Smart]

Thoughts on things like how Cheeky had been playing

Which posts?

[Something_Smart]

How do you not think Math is scum for strongarming the Cheeky lynch? Do you think he and Cheeky are both that bad?

[Something_Smart]

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73171
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73237&start=1550
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=73520

Look at my ISO, ctrl + F "doubt =" check the alignments of myself and the person I'm scumreading to see how serious I am AS TOWN. It has a 100% accuracy rate D1. D2 is not so great for god knows what reason, 100% fail rate after D1.

didn't think it was deterministic until this

like if it's at the point where 100% of your "no doubt" reads flip scum when you're town

i'm inclined to take you at your word on this

objectively, either
A. CT/Math scumteam
B. CT is right on Math
C. CT is wrong on Math and thus has to be scum

[Something_Smart]

- being equally willing to vote penguin instead

You guys can just read his ISO to see how false this is. Like he dwells and dwells on Cheeky and touches on Penguin much more rarely.

It is a perfect opportunity for fos: buddy, vote: townie. Which is a great scum pattern because when your main scumread flips town it gives you a reason to doubt your second one.

[Something_Smart]

pitch perfect description of cheeky's play

she's only seen me play VT or effective VT and i accept that my PR play is distinct

If this were true you'd have brought it up in 1281 at least hypothetically, and as cop you would have been able to bring it up hypothetically without drawing PR suspicion because we were literally just talking about scumreading PR's.

[Something_Smart]

Okay... what about that push did you think was genuine?

[Something_Smart]

i mean smart is literally forced to scumread me here so this second opinion is gonna be lolworthy FMPOV

Not from me... and for the record I was scumreading Mathdino before today.

[Something_Smart]

Okay... what about that push did you think was genuine?

Some of the points about being predatory and such. I definitely agree with how Math was viewing Cheeky's play after having checked a couple past games to see if certain scum pushes were predatory. The answer was very much yes, and that re-affirmed the faith that Mathdino's read was not based on a crock of bullshit.

Maybe not, but that doesn't make them GENUINE; if Mathdino is aware that appearing predatory is a scumtell, then he can push Cheeky based on that just as easily regardless of his alignment.

[Something_Smart]

It looked like he was pushing it because he found it actually scummy though, not because it was something he could push.

What's the distinction?

[Something_Smart]

It looked like he was pushing it because he found it actually scummy though, not because it was something he could push.

What's the distinction?

I feel like the way he explained the read wasn't really with the intent to push it as 100% scum as much as it was to pressure Cheeky and hopefully improve her reads.

??

He immediately voted her and proceeded to call a scumteam with her in it. Doesn't sound like he was trying to help her out there.

Obviously scum are not going to show absolute intent to lynch someone as soon as they start the wagon. But I don't think there's anything in there that indicates that riding that wagon as far as he could was not his plan.

[Something_Smart]

I mean, my claim was that you were going to try to lynch her until either you succeeded or it was clearly impossible.

Don't think that wagoning early is a scumtell. But it sure as hell isn't a TOWNTELL.

[Something_Smart]

And yeah we should def be lynching in Math/SS. Lynching in PP/NM just gets the other killed and it's always 3p lylo with me MD and SS
Is this an incorrect appraisal of the situation?

Or it gets you killed and Not_Mafia has to choose. It would make sense to do this, because if we lynch Penguin then no matter who the scum is they get to choose who decides the 3p LYLO.

The only thing I'm worried about is that you and Not_Mafia together have to decide between the cops, but you don't know that Not_Mafia is town, which would hinder the two of you working together.

[Something_Smart]

I guess Smart presents an issue, but as I said lynching in cops necessitates the real cop gets killed rather than the conftown because any result wins the game for town, so it always ends up me NM PP with me conftown. So that's always better than lynching in PP/NM.

That's only even the case if I'm scum. Since I'm town lynching correctly in the cops just ends the game.