Micro 792: Three in One (Day 6)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: PenguinPower
for taking first second and third post

[Gamma Emerald]

Fite me.

VOTE: Something_Smart

scumclaim more votes here

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow you're right he has posted all prime numbers

[Gamma Emerald]

Wow you're right he has posted all prime numbers

only scum would think that 15 is a prime number.

VOTE: gamma

You're wrong about me thinking that, also

PEdit: goddamnit dino I was saving ninteenth post for Penguin

Claim not tracker

[Gamma Emerald]

Not participating.

great, no one else do it then I guess, unless there's a benefit to having one person not participating

[Gamma Emerald]

ok

[Gamma Emerald]

Please do not refer to that name. Elsa and Jay are my cousins who do their own thing.

I'm Bambi, plain and simple.

...
I have no words

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean they are killed in a sense

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking about it I have a theory about scumplay in this game but I'll hold it cos I wanna see if anyone plays like I would expect scum to

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that line more characteristic of scum-him?

I dunno. It just pinged me that he called for more votes without voting.

I'm suspicious of Math, Gamma and the cute penguin at this point. I can take or leave most of these reads, meaning confidence = 2ish/10.

Hard TR Bambi.

I was already voting there

[Gamma Emerald]

You never townread anything I do as town even when I am town, Math.

Kinda hard to townread you when you don't play to town wincon

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma just taking potshots is weird, seems more about discrediting than gamesolving

Mhm I'd love to hear where this goes

I was confirmed town that game too

Not. Even. ONCE!

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking about it I have a theory about scumplay in this game but I'll hold it cos I wanna see if anyone plays like I would expect scum to

i actually think i know exactly what you're saying

but i would also play like that as town (if not more likely to)

and i think you know this about me

Why do you think I'm talking specifically about you

[Gamma Emerald]

reads for bambi:

Bambi: policy lynchable
Cheeky: bad reads and hard townreads you, is scum pocketing you
Gamma: capable of faking gamesolving, probscum sucking up to me
northsidegal: has posted nothing game relevant, basically scumclaiming
Not_Mafia: policy lynchable with extreme prejudice (although should be kept around depending on how spicy his memes are)
PenguinPower: blanket disapproval of optimal claiming strategy is exactly the kind of scum pushback i get from my gamebreaking
RedFlavor: blatantly chainsaw defending/WKing not_mafia, deserves rope, probably scum
SomethingSmart: honestly he's scummy in every game i've played with him so

does that help at all

[Gamma Emerald]

Check this out

[Gamma Emerald]

What the hell can we not treat this as a dick measuring contest

[Gamma Emerald]

Holy hell that is one amazing creation EP
What's funny is I can't tear myself away from this game

[Gamma Emerald]

have pushed a lot of strategies in open games and your reaction is most similar to scum reactions in my experience

elaborate pls

Check the game linked in Math's sig (the thing about economics wonderland) and check what cy flipped

[Gamma Emerald]

PoE

This would also be nice to explain given your last "read list" was all scum reads.

Would still like your answer to this.

That was a meme reads list specifically to not give Bambi something to sheep. I was half making fun of what other people get scumread for (Gamma, Smart, NSG) and half making fun of my own gut reactions to people's posts (CT, you).

Bambi and N_M are presently unreadable and are already fully in my lynchpool. If I'm to actually push people for reasons:

NSG is town.
CT reads very light town.

Gamma can nulltown.

Smart is null.
You I lightly scumread.

So if I'm supposed to actually play the game as opposed to policysmiting people I don't wanna play with, my vote's on you.

PARSING ERROR DETECTED, MUST ABORT

[Gamma Emerald]

Guilty until Proven Innocent. Except me. I'm always innocent.

I claim guilty child

[Gamma Emerald]

Guilty until Proven Innocent. Except me. I'm always innocent.

I claim guilty child

YOU PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE COOKIE JAR, DIDN'T YOU RUBY?!

[Gamma Emerald]

Guilty until Proven Innocent. Except me. I'm always innocent.

I claim guilty child

YOU PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE COOKIE JAR, DIDN'T YOU RUBY?!

(jk. edit removed -ep)

Fixing

[Gamma Emerald]

RedFlavor/NM scumteam, calling it

[Gamma Emerald]

Because I feel a kindred spirit.

Red, I'm sure you remember JK9, my only current town win, yeah? You want to know something fun? Getting crapped on continuously since page one. I got my limits on being told I'm shit or a Policy Lynch, Red. That's all that vote is, and I won't be sad if it does go through.

Check again Red why haven't you shared the good news with Jay?

[Gamma Emerald]

And Red I realised was also playing similarly to JK9++.

You mean with his one "lol" post?

So apart from Penguin's reaction to your controversial theory, explain your scum read on him.

I don't think I've ever finished a game with town-RedFlavor now that I think about it, so whenever I see him being the same old RedFlavor I get scumvibes.

I've seen people in this game as scum too much.

I've seen town!RedFlavor, he's not much better but he is better

[Gamma Emerald]

Also

You only respect my scumplay

Because you've never seen it

Upon review, this is basically true.

No offence, but having seen it........

Let's just say Smart is town now. The kinds of lines of questioning/arguments I assumed he would easily fake as scum are not things I'm seeing in his scumgames.

Town by meta: Smart/Red

NSG is weird. I just got out of a game where I lock-towned her as a reaction test specifically to see if she'd get all paranoid of me, under the assumption that she would only do so as town. I was just about to use that tell to townread her but now I realise that of fucking course she'd intentionally fish for townreads by doing that after

I literally told her that's the reaction I was fishing for last game

.
So I'm back to null there. NSG being at null is a very uncomfortable gamestate.

Incidentally, in the same (completely Open) game, Bambi fakeclaimed jailkeeper as VT thinking the real jailkeeper wouldn't counterclaim. And also repeatedly jumped off scumwagons to try to flashlynch me and obvtown Almost50. So you'll understand my sentiment of "town wins the sooner Bambi gets lynched".
Sentiment holds until I get a hardcore promise of not lying as town. Some players can do it effectively, but only after becoming good townies in the first place.

CT's argument on Not_Mafia is either really good (if she's town), or her play so far has been politically motivated. Can explain this more in depth if need be but paranoia of her holds.

And Gamma is... honestly Occam's Razor just suggests he's town, but self-reminder to go check his scumrange at some point, because I need to get better at reading him.

Assuming Bambi is just hardcore PL-able town, my current potential scumteams for consideration are:
Penguin/NSG
Penguin/CT
Penguin/N_M
NSG/N_M
NSG/CT

Might be able to rule some of these out in a bit. Still haven't looked up Penguin at all.

Math what is your Redflavor meta
I'm using JK9++ and Newbie 1949 (both games where I replaced into his slot)

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma

what do you think about Penguin and cheeky at this point?

I think I agree with what Math is saying on Penguin but I don't want to lynch Penguin yet
Cheeky not really sure what I'm thinking of them yet

[Gamma Emerald]

So you think I ALSO faked the AHA moment? Like I in no way think that mixing up the games and forgetting to finish a post about it is alignment indicative, but thinking that I timed the "finding an unfinished post" thing as a political response to NSG townreading me and then reversing my read on her this page...
Like I acknowledge that you see inconsistency. Everyone sees inconsistency in my reads progressions at times, fucking whatever.
But what I'm not understanding is wtf you think my scumplan here is. Great, I got NSG to think I'm near conftown... and now I'm trying to remove her from the game? Why NSG over literally any of the 6 players in this game who aren't Smart?

How did Smart get into this discussion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Tempted if only for the mental breakdown I'd trigger, but I shant

LOL! I wish you had.

VOTE: Bambi

Cheeky honey, whatever is that vote for?

I didn't get why you would caution people about an early lynch without unvoting yourself?

I believe a quote from my ISO goes like this-

"Yeah I'm looking for scum, but I'm leaving my vote on Dino. If he gets hammered? Ah well".

Honestly I knew NotMafia as scum wouldn't hammer, or ANY scum in that situation since that's basically giving yourself up just to kill Dino. And if they DID do that? Well that was one scum down the drain already and it gives any PRs a chance to work their magic elsewhere in finding the potential partner.

NM lolhammers as both aligns

[Gamma Emerald]

Lol, no I see him saying

"I'm great at fabricating pushes/scumreads on certain people, like the people I'm scumreading now"...

Yeah that's kinda left open to interpretation, but I don't think that's what he meant.

[Gamma Emerald]

I disagree. I scumread him for the reasons you're townreading him. He played way more recklessly in a newbie game I have meta on him from.

I can concur that this meta is accurate, as I'm using it as well

[Gamma Emerald]

Holy. Shit.

My bad then.

@Cheeky: I think I have a reasonable understanding of Red's thought process and I'm very confident right now that recklessness is neither a towntell for him (he was super reckless in BOTH SCUMGAMES I PLAYED WITH HIM) nor is it actually a factor of his playstyle right now (I'm sensing that he's moving away from recklessness).

I feel like in both games I replaced him in he flaked due to being in a bad spot but in the scumgame he got there by being unscrupulous with how he interacted with his buddy but in the towngame he got in that spot by openwolfing hardcore, so I'm feeling like he would be more out-there as town

[Gamma Emerald]

@bambi what is your read on ct and
@ct what is your read on bambi

Why so interested in those two?

[Gamma Emerald]

@bambi what is your read on ct and
@ct what is your read on bambi

Why so interested in those two?

You know this is Red's most towny post imo.

It may be his most towny post but I still want a reason why he focused in on that pairing

[Gamma Emerald]

I thought 424 was one of his most NAI posts tbh

It's literally identical to one of my scumhunting posts when I think I've caught two scum.

aaah

[Gamma Emerald]

@bambi what is your read on ct and
@ct what is your read on bambi

Why so interested in those two?

You know this is Red's most towny post imo.

It may be his most towny post but I still want a reason why he focused in on that pairing

nevermind this

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I like this idea

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
I like this idea

P-sure you need to state why when you vote NM.

So...please do.

I feel like he's scum rn, his posting kinda felt showy at the beginning

[Gamma Emerald]

Why does it have to be a meta read?

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh, sorry, you are scumreading him on his content in this game alone?

Yes

[Gamma Emerald]

So, I just looked through all of his 12 posts in this game. Can you point out what felt "showy" to you?

Sure

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma just taking potshots is weird, seems more about discrediting than gamesolving

Feels like a read for the sake of giving a read, plus doesn't vote me til much later so he doesn't seem to care about pushing this

I was confirmed town that game too

Lying about past games, idk why but I still don't like it

I’m 1-Shot Bulletproof

Claiming a role not in the game as a gag. This along with the previous quoted post don't feel natural to me.

Math is being PL'd, oh how the tables have turned

What's the point of this post? I'd think if he actually was reveling in it it would be a bit more emotive, something like "Isn't it great how Mathdino is being PLed after advocating for one himself?" Maybe showy doesn't describe it best, it feels like he's going through a set of steps rather than actually making genuine jokes and such.

[Gamma Emerald]

What are Mathdino and NSG 1v1ing over on page 20 btw?

[Gamma Emerald]

Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:

- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload

You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.

I mean I don't think that's wholly inaccurate but I also don't see how telling me I'm trying to metaread everyone is a criticism of my play? I've been on kind of a meta kick lately across the board. Part of it I think is talking to Ellibereth about townplay.

Incoming self-defence that's more trying to help you see how I play:

I use meta primarily to nullify tells and reads, not to pinpoint people as town or scum.

So my general thought process is something like:
- Oh shit, Something_Smart is doing a ton of things that are SuperTown.
- But Smart is a really good/experienced player... he could probably fake those as scum.
- Okay, I'll metadive his scumgames to see if he can fake that kind of content easily. (I didn't read his towngames at all, because I was trying to nullify a towntell, not a scumtell)
- Doesn't look like he creates that kind of content effortlessly as scum. He's probably town here.

Same thing with Red:
- Red is making a bunch of nuanced posts that read like he's coming at things from a town perspective.
- I've played 2 scumgames with Red, and skimming those ISOs, he comes across as an actual crazy person.
- Stands to reason that he's not scum here, because he can't fake that content.

Then consider NSG:
- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.
- I know her towngame, and her gameplay this early game is not something I've seen before from town-NSG.
- Doesn't look like it's just NAI null shit, so she's probably scum here.

My reads come from the game I'm in. Then I get paranoid as to whether what I'm reading is just a NAI nulltell. So I go check their meta and see if their behaviour is something I should expect from them all the time.

You were literally just read incorrectly by meta in the game we just played together. From that, I can reasonably argue that you shift your meta effortlessly, and, as scum, are steps ahead of your previous scumgames. It would be idiotic for me to go and metaread you when that's exactly how people got you wrong in that game. So my read on you has been solely based on this game.

I'll actually re-read Red because if the argument is nuanced reads I'd have to check for those

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, why is showy scummy?

Didn't I kinda explain what I meant in my above post?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald FOR GREAT JUSTICE

Why is this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Sort of, but that post makes me cringe when I try to read it...

I don't really see why having forced jokes makes him scummy, I feel like he'd be able to joke just as well as either alignment.

Forced jokes = he's not really into doing them, but he's doing it anyway to try and look like standard NM

[Gamma Emerald]

What are Mathdino and NSG 1v1ing over on page 20 btw?

Seriously?

I started skimmin when I saw you two going back and forth

[Gamma Emerald]

Spoiler: From Tit for Tat (NSG town)

northsidegal is actually scum.

DOUBLY so if Creature turns out to be town through the day. Creature's read was right on point. I'll give NSG a couple chances to explain to me why exactly I think that.
And yes, this is a test, the response may very well affect this read. Please do actually explain why I, personally, Mathdino, am scumreading you. I wanna see if you're seeing the same things.

oh, so this is where it started. my guess is that it's mainly my activity, but if i had to guess i'd also say it's probably because of my questioning / vote of jmo.

I'm not like 100% confident enough in this read to speedlynch her without a reaction.

That was half a lie; she didn't really explain how to read her, but we went over our respective scumgames and she more demonstrated that I COULD read her. Honestly I think we've just seen each other too much at this point. I don't expect her to be the easiest sort ever for others but I'd like to think I can gutread her, even if she's only posted however few times.

Math, i'm going to say this right now, and it applies to anyone who thinks they can metaread me off of the first few posts in a game, now or in the future – you're only going to get burned. Keep going down this path and one of these days i'll have a good start as scum and will get false cleared or one of these days i'll get lynched as town early for just having a weak rvs. It's already happened to RC before. I honestly don't really enjoy the prevailing conception about my meta so far (i think it's just a function of me rolling town so much more often than scum) and so i'm waiting for the game where it's disproven – i'd rather that not be this game where my town flip is what disproves it.

@NSG: Benefit of the doubt here. Why did you not seem to give a shit that I was locktowning you early on?

because i believe that

you

believe that you can read me based off of three posts. yeah, of course i saw the similarity to anything upick – the thing is, i expect you to do the same thing as town. so... it didn't really factor into my read of you at all.

like, it's really as simple as that i think

you

think you can read me from three posts. i know that RC thinks that. so it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary? i also don't really feel like my play was anything out of the ordinary like it was in anything upick where there was a disconnect between

my own meta read of myself

based off of a few posts and what you were saying.

tl;dr: I fake-locktowned NSG to see her reaction. She didn't react all paranoid-like, so I called her as scum. She still didn't react all paranoid like, noting that

she believes that I think I can read her very easily

.

Spoiler: From Be Yourself (NSG-SK)

I sincerely doubt the ability of

anyone

to accurately read me within my first

ten

posts in a game. I'm not creature – yes, I can obvtown as town – the fact that I apparently haven't done so by page 8 is supposed to be a scumclaim? I also get the feeling that people are just equating my post length with my towniness rather than anything i'm actually saying. I can write walls as scum – it doesn't mean anything and i've done it before.

math, you're making the same mistake that katy made with regard to my "paranoid theory" comment – assuming that i was making that point as anything more than a simple observation / point of discussion. if i was "jumping on you" for that, i would've moved my vote to you (same with the postie/rt comment). i believed that it was entirely reasonable that you actually were regretting joining for whatever reason unrelated to your alignment, and given that i would have no way of proving what your disappointment was caused by, it would've been an entirely pointless avenue of discussion to persue.

No but that's the thing. It was a bad point, and given the pace of the game and the players already willing to go after me, it was fanning a flame that shouldn't have been fanned in the first place.

I would've understood if you, for example, pressure-wagoned me (like Cheeky), or pressure-interrogated me for more info. But you floated an idea out there in an already unstable gamestate that would only add more noise.

I'm not sure what you're scumreading me for here. Are you trying to say that me giving a short observation on a topic that someone else had brought up brings you materially closer to a lynch than choosing to hop on the wagon would? Like, i have no idea what "floating an idea out there in an unstable gamestate that only adds more noise" is actually supposed to mean, nor how it would make me scum.
[snip]
Math, how confident would you say you are in your read on me as of right now?

i resent being called a lowposter.

and also being voted because people are getting bored.

one second.

What's your read on Dino?

conflicted – i'm not sure how much he actually believes that the "prefers town" comment makes me scum and i know that he doesn't put a lot of weight into early game reads so it seems kind of strange, but as scum i would've expected him to try to pocket me more by defending me rather than trying to use knowledge of my meta to get a lynch on me.

i still scumread mathdino for his push on me and the entire weak justification for that. feels like he's trying to use a claimed knowledge of my meta as a tool

against

me moreso than to try to read me, if that makes sense – he's never once really tried to engage with me or to try to figure out

why

i'm not posting so much and if he really knows my meta and he's being genuine then he should know that inactivity doesn't always make me scum.

From here, we get the inconsistent OMGUS reaction, with (notably) the deflection with "you're just trying to activity-tell me", when that wasn't my case in the first place.

Near the end, she notes that she thinks scum-me would try to pocket her rather than try to use meta against her, but much later on pivots to "Math is scum for trying to use meta against me". I don't know how much she believes either of these statements, but if she legit thought my scum-strategy would just be to pocket her as town, that's clearly against what I'm doing here.

Anyway, read the spoilers, the reactions are different. Yadda yadda scum by meta. That shit is boring. The kicker is here:

i don't really like the idea of policy lynching just to set up for future games – it feels kind of weird, like playing towards a future wincondition or something. not even a future wincondition, but maybe even just sacrificing parts of this game to have a potentially better next game. i'd really rather just lynch scumreads.

doesn't it also assume that whoever we're policy lynching is on the losing team for this game?

She shows understanding of how I view this game. She also knows that when there are multiple win conditions, I'm not the type of person to stick to just one. She doesn't like it, but she understands it.

I've been fooled by scum-N_M, scum-CT, and scum-Bambi, and I've misread town-Gamma. And since she read Polygamist, she'd also know I've been fooled by scum-RedFlavor. I have not played with Penguin or Smart as town.

The ONLY player in this game I have a consistent track record of reading is NSG. She also knows that I think I can read her very easily. She also knows that I think she's an easily readable player; she demonstrated that in Be Yourself.

So suppose she's town and I'm scum. I obviously have to assume I'm going to win (because if I lose I'm out of the next game). And I'm more likely to roll town next game than scum.

So why would I want to remove the one player in this playerlist that I think I can read 100% of the time, when doing so would be blatantly against future wincons?

She clearly believes I'm actually trying to get her lynched, so from her POV, this can't be a case of "Math is just softpushing me for towncred". And she also understands why I wanted to policy lynch Bambi and N_M (so I wouldn't have to deal with them next game when I 5/7 roll town).

Scumreading me for pushing her is not only indicative of scum-NSG, it's also ridiculous given that she's framed me as someone who thinks I can read her 100% of the time (to the point where I signed up to spectate her Newbie Games during Tit for Tat just to be better at reading her).

The response to this is "something something WIFOM". Whatever. She's right that I play politically, and she's goddamn right I will play to future wincons. NSG is the last person I would want to mislynch, and the fact that I'm voting her right now is indicative of how sure I am on this. I would just add on:
- NSG knows she can obvtown as town, and knows that I face burden of proficiency in reading her correctly. Thinking I'm scum opportunistically jumping on her when in reality that would be suicide, is bad, and consistent with her reaction in Be Yourself.
- NSG three times framed my case as "you're just activity telling me" when that was explicitly not the case.

tl;dr: She OMGUS'd in a situation where it made no sense for scum-Mathdino to be trying to remove her from future games. NSG is scum.

I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread

[Gamma Emerald]

In post 565, Gamma Emerald wrote:

In post 561, Something_Smart wrote:
Sort of, but that post makes me cringe when I try to read it...

I don't really see why having forced jokes makes him scummy, I feel like he'd be able to joke just as well as either alignment.


Forced jokes = he's not really into doing them, but he's doing it anyway to try and look like standard NM


Why would he be less into them as scum?

Because he doesn't feel the need for levity?

[Gamma Emerald]

I will accept lynching {N_M, Bambi} today on the condition that NSG MUST be lynched on D2 or D3.

I'll need to see a case on Gamma; the biggest point against him right now is him being active everywhere else, but that's not much.

Cheeky is a bad D1 lynch.

Smart and Red are town.

Penguin I'm not nearly annoyed enough by right now to lynch him, especially not before doing a metadive (tm).

I don't like people activity telling me by saying "he's active elsewhere". My activity in a game is dictated purely by whether I feel like playing it at the time. This one's slow and dull imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

Particularly in his case. I don't think he has to force himself to make jokes as scum.

But they still feel forced :/

[Gamma Emerald]

Yup, nothing's changed on that front

Why not vote me if nothing about me got scummier and nothing else got townier? If I'm wrong with this tell me how.

[Gamma Emerald]

But they still feel forced :/

Maybe! But my point is that's not alignment indicative, just indicative of his jokes not being particularly good-quality. (Not that I even think they're particularly bad)

w/e
what about the otther pouints

[Gamma Emerald]

I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread

how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?

I said I skimmed, nice misrep

[Gamma Emerald]

Well he promised us a vote and he lied. Lynch all liars right?

Sorry - I fell asleep.

And Penguin previously prevaricated pertaining to my posts, saying I had 12 when I had 11, I thought it was my 13th posts but I had been duped

You weren't duped by me. You had 12 posts when I said you did - ISO starts with post 0.

I like the Gamma wagon right now.

VOTE: Gamma

Yeah what's your actual read on me, you've never given one

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah Gamma is scum

yawn
If you'd like to explain why I'm scum for scumreading you in a way that doesn't end up summing up to OMGUS I'd be more than happy to hear it

[Gamma Emerald]

I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread

how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?

I said I skimmed, nice misrep

okay, please answer my question as if i had said "hadn't been reading it closely".

I saw the parts I needed to to put together that logic and I agreed.

[Gamma Emerald]

w/e
what about the otther pouints

The only post you addressed in 555 that was not a joke was 111. I don't see why that looks like a fake excuse for a read rather than a real read (and I really don't understand what you mean by "giving a read for the sake of giving a read", because isn't sharing their thoughts something townies should do for its own sake?), and I also disagree with the implicit assumption that scum care less about pushing their reads than town, especially since town can have varying strengths of scumreads not all of which are strong enough to warrant a vote.

I guess thinking about it that first part doesn't make sense cos town wouldn't care about giving full reads as much as scum but the second part still stands, I feel like since that's the only read he gave at that point it's the only one he'd have to really follow, so why didn't he vote me sooner?

[Gamma Emerald]

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?

[Gamma Emerald]

could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?

It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?

why would

i

want math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?

Because you respect his town play and would be rather concerned if he were town? And what do you think you know about his scumgame?

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you respect his town play and would be rather concerned if he were town? And what do you think you know about his scumgame?

First of all, the exact same thing applies with regards to mathdino towards me. what's more, what you're describing as my mentality just doesn't make sense for anyone. your chances of rolling town in future games is always more than your chances of rolling scum, so if you were going to play with future games in mind you would always play towards a future towngame over a future scumgame.

i know that he plays politically and i know that he's worse at real-time interaction (something that i think is visible this game).

Why are you scumreading him for something you know that is just a thing he does then (being bad at realtime interaction)? And what is playing politically?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why are you scumreading him for something you know that is just a thing he does then (being bad at realtime interaction)? And what is playing politically?

i'm saying that's what i know if his

scumgame

, that he's worse at realtime interaction as scum than as town.

playing "politically" is fabricating your reads in such a way to try to get rid of players where it hurts you to have them around and keeping around players that benefit you to have them around. an example for mathdino would be keeping newbies around who townread a loud / dominant playstyle and getting rid of the more experienced players who might see through it. something_smart can probably describe this better than i can.

in this game, i think math's "political" play is evident in the way that he backed off of all of his scumreads before me after it was clear that it wasn't working for him.

ok thanks
so you're saying Mathdino is playing politically for this game or future ones?

[Gamma Emerald]

I get that but are you saying your lynch is beneficial for this or future game for MD, and why?

[Gamma Emerald]

I get that but are you saying your lynch is beneficial for this or future game for MD, and why?

i'm not making that argument.

Then how is he playing politically if neither of those are true?

[Gamma Emerald]

oh, sorry – i misread what you said, i thought you were just talking about future games.

i mean, my lynch is beneficial for him in the sense that someone who's pushing him as scum dies, but i'm not making the argument that he's scum

just because

he's pushing me. i also think you may be slightly misunderstanding the true essence of playing "politically" – in this game i would say it's more manifested itself through his dropped pushes.

Okay, talk with me about those then.

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: NSG
I think this is probably town discourse, kinda feel like a scum would push me just a little

[Gamma Emerald]

I tried to mislynch town-Gamma when I was scum because he was devoid of content.

I think I'm sensing a pattern of Gamma getting suspected on D1 a LOT, and also figured out that town-Gamma tends to become pretty damn obvious the more he plays.

So I'm uninterested in a D1 Gamma lynch, especially when scum-NSG is an option, and N_M is an option.

Which game was this again where you were scum pushing me? Anything UPick?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah what's your actual read on me, you've never given one

I'm comfortable with my vote on you atm.

That's not a read, that's your willingness to vote me

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't do reads (except in limited circumstances). You can see where I stand from my posting.

You know this. This isn't one of the limited circumstances.

You haven''t give one word of anything about what you think of me besides your willingness to vote me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I might have forgot my theory actually fak
I think it might have had something to do with meta manipulation
It's not what Mathdino thought it was though

[Gamma Emerald]

My willingness to vote you should be telling.

And, I just did after that post

p-edit

@Gamma

that's based on content after you voted me, you're not getting off the hook for that

[Gamma Emerald]

OK that actually makes a lot of sense I guess Penguin, but I can't be 24/7 active like I used to be in the past so me beetlejuicing is sometimes just a casualty of my schedule.
Also you secretly L-1ed me ?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also you secretly L-1ed me ?

p.sure I only took you to L-2. NSG was L-2 at the time.

ah, awkward phrasing then

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma ... has no real stance on anyone.

Completely wrong

His points don't come across as valid and, yes there is fluff and that is what I see as scummy about Gamma.

Terrible reason to scumread me I believe you definitely have seen me fluff as both alignments

Initially I didn't suspect him because he was calling for votes on me in RVS, and that is totally alignment indicative.

I don't get the point here.

Since then, he's not trying too hard and feels very fluid.

What's wrong with that?

His dismissive reaction to being scum read is something scum could easily do to gain towncred (especially when not really in danger)

When was this?

, and when Cheeky eluded to believing he was town he passively pushed back against her by having doubts about her alignment

See above

, when asked, in contrast to how town often act of making a show of being pocketed etc.

Sorry, Cheeky, but that was a bunch of buzzwords and nonsense that anyone of any alignment could do. Gamma hasn't really engaged in anything, pushed NM for a weak reason, and his entire exchange with NSG feels fake. Especially putting her to an unannounced L-1 then finding a "reason" for unvoting a short few hours later. I don't see town.

I'm baffled how you think my exchange with NSG was fake, I feel like that should have shone through as me really trying to sort her.
This whole case kinda feels like a stretch imo.
VOTE: PenguinPower

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma am I defending scum you? D:

I don't think so, but it's not something that's 100% off the table. I think your townread feels rather natural but I haven't looked at it to hard past the first few sentences.
btw Mathdino's post after this confirms the setup as goon-goon if he's scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Sorry, Cheeky, but that was a bunch of buzzwords and nonsense that anyone of any alignment could do. Gamma hasn't really engaged in anything, pushed NM for a weak reason, and his entire exchange with NSG feels fake. Especially putting her to an unannounced L-1 then finding a "reason" for unvoting a short few hours later. I don't see town.

This would have been useful a long time ago. Lol "buzzwords" - when mafia takes over your life and you no longer realise you're using jargon in everyday speech.

Actually wrt mafia buzzwords is like it's own thing, things like OMGUS and AtE are regarded as buzzwords. I typically try to nuance my thoughts when I'm doing anything associated with a buzzword, but I do think indiscriminate use of buzzwords is bad play.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma am I defending scum you? D:

I don't think so, but it's not something that's 100% off the table. I think your townread feels rather natural but I haven't looked at it to hard past the first few sentences.
btw Mathdino's post after this confirms the setup as goon-goon if he's scum

what the fuck
i'm gonna need you to stop speculating on the role indicativeness of the things i say

Yeah no I'll say what I want. If you're scum that's most likely a discredit move meaning you believe both of those roles could be in the game, making it goon-goon

[Gamma Emerald]

I completely feel like you exchange with NSG was fake, and it didn't shine through as you trying to sort her. It felt more like you want credit for suspecting her because she seems like an inevitable lynch with Math pushing as he is, and then realizing you put her at L-1 and unvoting. I'm baffled you don't how you don't think that.

I feel like my questioning had a natural progression. I didn't realize she was L-1 ok cool but I'd like to know why that makes me scum. Also I don't like to bus, and bussing in micros is bad play in general. So I don't see why I don't just keep being clueless as to the whole Math v NSG argument rather than take the side of the person trying to lynch my scumbuddy

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma am I defending scum you? D:

I don't think so, but it's not something that's 100% off the table. I think your townread feels rather natural but I haven't looked at it to hard past the first few sentences.
btw Mathdino's post after this confirms the setup as goon-goon if he's scum

Are you saying you don't know your own alignment??

I misread the question
Thought you were asking if I thought you were scum defending me

[Gamma Emerald]

Yeah giving NSG scum ideas about how to make the most of her lynch is a great idea. I don't understand the point of this post.

you don't know what my plan is

also people seem to get really anxious about the idea of "giving scum ideas" on this site when the reality is that scum isn't braindead and me saying "scum optimal strategy is to do [x]" either
A. preempts them actually doing it
B. forces them to do something suboptimal instead

it's fine, things are fine

i know what is and isn't dangerous to say and i also know how to WIFOM the scum lol

interesting irrelevant point: the last time you warned me against "giving scum ideas" you were scum yourself lol

You know what I'll let this go because I just remembered Tit For Tat where you preempted scum considering fakeclaiming JK and I believe you preempted your kill n1

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I don't like to bus, and bussing in micros is bad play in general.

Meh...I always hardbus in Newbies/micros as scum. Fantastic results. That argument doesn't really sway me.

If you bus as scum in micros regularly then you aren't a good scum player imo. Your goal isn't to be towny it's to get town lynched. Plus you put yourself up for trackers and roleblockers to clear people.

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma never put NSG at L-1

Truth. My bad on the count. Still doesn't change my read on the speed, but lessens it.

Okay I cut out my response to the first half of the last Penguin post I quoted to get his response to this, and it's not the best and still kinda feels a bit Regardless Of but I'm not too incensed to call him scum for this reaction
Also Mathdino is town, why does he correct PP when it's just as well he could leave it be and let PP keep pushing me

[Gamma Emerald]

oh boy how about we flip NSG to determine gamma's alignment

that will definitely work.

can't tell if sarcasm

me? sarcastic? never...

In the great battle of Math vs NSG, who do choose?

Neither
Vote PP

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't even believe what you are saying.

Go ahead and demonstrate this
Oh wait you can't

[Gamma Emerald]

interesting irrelevant point: the last time you warned me against "giving scum ideas" you were scum yourself lol

the real question is, did she get any ideas from you?

Nah, that was actually a scumslip that game. There were no possible scum that could've gotten the particular idea. My assuming she was dumb (rather than scum) was partially what lost the game.

Edit: Gamma I don't know how you could possibly read Math vs NSG and think we're both town at this point.

I mean I could maybe understand it if you had amazing reasons for NSG-town (which clears me, I stand by that) but you don't.

I think NSG's dialogue with me was town
I think your actions recently have been town
As such I think both of you are town

[Gamma Emerald]

You don't even believe what you are saying.

Go ahead and demonstrate this
Oh wait you can't

Despite the fact that your vote on me came after my "case on your" or better yet, my condescension of Cheeky's towncase (which I pointed out).

Yeah well I'd had gut pings from you early so glgl

Okay I cut out my response to the first half of the last Penguin post I quoted to get his response to this, and it's not the best and still kinda feels a bit Regardless Of but I'm not too incensed to call him scum for this reaction

Your turn.

to what

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma your reads are insanely self-centred like always

like fuck man all it takes to get a townread from you is not jumping on your wagon when doing that would be the most nakedly obvious scum move possible?

What's wrong with reading people in relation to me? I know my alignment so that's automatically one half of the associative I know the alignment of

[Gamma Emerald]

To make a real argument.

All of a sudden it's become "gut pings" after you asked me to demonstrate which I did...

Can we lynch this guy today?

I mean that's not the exact explanation but I still mean to say I suspected you long before you suspected me
And like why should I have to explain what goes into my read on you when you didn't?

[Gamma Emerald]

To make a real argument.

All of a sudden it's become "gut pings" after you asked me to demonstrate which I did...

Can we lynch this guy today?

I mean that's not the exact explanation but I still mean to say I suspected you long before you suspected me
And like why should I have to explain what goes into my read on you when you didn't?

Wait...so you have an exact explanation, or it's a gut read that you've had since RVS...or some other time. When was that other time? Why didn't you vote and push me then? Why did you wait until I put forward a "case" on you. Defensive?

And like, I explained why I am where I am on you...I didn't at first, if that's what you meant, but I have now...so maybe that's why you should.

Yea, I started suspecting you when you reacted to Mathdino's plan, I agree that that is the standard scum reaction to his strategies. I just never pushed it because I never felt super-strongly about my scumread on you until now.
As for you explaining where you are on me yeah I meant initially. Still actually feel like there's more to it or you're just bsing, cos just suspecting me for the NSG stuff feels kinda weak imo

[Gamma Emerald]

If this is going to boil down to NSG/Math in the end, can we go ahead and do that? I don't really feel like fighting an ancillary battle atm.

Yeah no I'm 100% against this 1 v 1, can we not?

[Gamma Emerald]

If this is going to boil down to NSG/Math in the end, can we go ahead and do that? I don't really feel like fighting an ancillary battle atm.

I agree that that is the standard scum reaction to his strategies. I just never pushed it because I never felt super-strongly about my scumread on you until now.

Bullcrap.

How many of the "standard scum" were involved in the creation of the setup he "broke." Math himself said he's biased. Piss off with that weak crap. You're grasping.

VOTE: Gamma

NSG can go later.

lmao #backtracked

[Gamma Emerald]

Mathdino
I want you to get off your high horse with NSG and vote the actual scum PP with me

[Gamma Emerald]

how the fuck is penguin's reaction to my setup shenanigans more alignment-indicative than NSG's reaction

when penguin is the newbie listmod

and NSG has never shown any negative reaction to setup spec in any context prior to now

I guess that's a fair point, I'm still not off my scumread of Penguin though

[Gamma Emerald]

Thanks. So, I really want Gamma to explain it since his response was "lmao backtracked" after he posted nonsense that I questioned.

Really am going to bed now, so I'll check back in in about 8 hours.

I feel like your reasons for pushing me are bad and you should know it so you're probably scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Thanks. So, I really want Gamma to explain it since his response was "lmao backtracked" after he posted nonsense that I questioned.

Really am going to bed now, so I'll check back in in about 8 hours.

I feel like your reasons for pushing me are bad and you should know it so you're probably scum

stop copying me and stop OMGUSing

you're at the point where basically no one townreads you

is EVERYONE dumb or scum to you

my argument against NSG works because she and i have a history

is there any reason you think penguin should know better or something

you are also aware you are often scumread on D1 so wat

Yes Penguin should know better. And how am I copying you? You're wrong that no one townreads me, you yourself do, unless you'd like to retract that. As for being scumread D1 yeah guess what? I can still try to read into those scumreads, just because people suspect me D1 doesn't mean it's all town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Plan:

We lynch NSG, when she flips scum we quicklynch bambietta and not_mafia then win

No thanks

[Gamma Emerald]

What part of "I'll Lynch North if Dino is confirmed town" didn't also suggest that?

I'm looking for every option other then having you decide shit again. NotMaf, who do you think is more likely scum, Gamma or North?

Gamma

and North

Oh now I'm VERY curious to hear your thoughts there.

You won't he's just making up reads

[Gamma Emerald]

What part of "I'll Lynch North if Dino is confirmed town" didn't also suggest that?

I'm looking for every option other then having you decide shit again. NotMaf, who do you think is more likely scum, Gamma or North?

Gamma

and North

Oh now I'm VERY curious to hear your thoughts there.

You won't he's just making up reads

Gamma Scumerald

Not_Not_Mafia

[Gamma Emerald]

Votecount 1.9

Gamma Emerald

(3): Not_Mafia, PenguinPower, Bambietta Basterbine

northsidegal

(2): Mathdino, Red Flavor

Mathdino

(1): northsidegal

Not_Mafia

(1): CheekyTeeky

PenguinPower

(1): Gamma Emerald

Not Voting

(1): Something_Smart

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to achieve a lynch.

Deadline in (expired on 2018-03-26 09:00:00)

nice try

I didn't even know if I was hammered or not

[Gamma Emerald]

wow it's not like the gamma wagon has scum on it regardless of NSG's alignment

let's lynch on it then, I'm scumreading both NM amd PP and BB hasn't impressed me at all

[Gamma Emerald]

it just today occurred to me that you and i were in fact scum together in anything upick

and you totally lied to me in be yourself

if you're town i'm going to say you gotta get good at townhunting

i've left myself open basically all day to being convinced out of my NSG tunnel

and the only argument so far has been gamma's "WELL SHE DIDNT JUMP ON MY WAGON SOOO"

so like i said, god help me if this NSG's first towngame in which literally no one townread her

That's completely misrepping my reasoning
It's that she didn't take any cracks at me while we were arguing

[Gamma Emerald]

why would scum-NSG, observing that your reads almost entirely consist of "scum is the people scumreading me, town is the people townreading me"

decide to go and piss you off and field another vote on her wagon

I don't get how that is at all what my reads are
I've been suspecting redFlavor this whole time

[Gamma Emerald]

ok all the good meta is like a year old

his scumgame looks a lot like creature's scumgames lol

Oh fuck I forgot about that since Jordan's game

[Gamma Emerald]

You think N_M would scumhammer his buddy before she gets a chance to draw ccs?

Your insane bias on NSG is mind blowing even if you're right.

Just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Like if NSG is town, that doesn't at all explain why N_M lolhammers her but not me.

Oh really? Who have we been stating is our first suspect if NSG flips town?

Why would he lynch a player doing all the hard scum work for him?

You're the only one who's been saying I'm the prime suspect on NSG-town. I've already gone over how NSG townflip clears me IMO.

Telling me that NSG townflip tells me N_M is scum with me is useless and obviously doesn't answer my question.

Gamma and Bambi also would IIRC. Wtf at your logic.

VOTE: MATHDINO

I think NSG and Mathdino are town regardless of the others align

[Gamma Emerald]

Lynching off the wagon is a win I'm almost certain, they're 3 scummiest people

Mhm I'd sure love to hear why you this S_S is scummy

[Gamma Emerald]

	Column 1	Column 2	Column 3
Row 1	Maf RB, Town Cop and Neap, 4 VT	Maf RC, Town Cop and Tracker, 4 VT	Maf goon, Town Cop and 5 VT
Row 2	Maf RB, Town JK and Doc, 4 VT	Maf RC, Town JK and Tracker, 4 VT	Maf goon, Town JK and 5 VT
Row 3	Maf RB, Town Cop and Doc, 4 VT	Maf RC, Town Neap and Doc, 4 VT	Maf goon, Town Tracker and Doc, 4 VT

Here's the table of what the possible roles that still exist are. What I'm thinking for each PR is:
Neap: if the neap has a VT result they should probably out it. Neap shouldn't do anything special if it has a non-VT result. No result might be okay to claim but I don't know where to go beyond that.
Cop: if it has a guilty out it immediately. Otherwise probably keep it cool.
JK: probably don't claim, if there's RB claiming kills your real utility of eliminating suspects or kill blocking.
Doc: don't claim.
Tracker: idk, if Cop/Tracker weren't a setup I'd say the same thing about cop where you should out if you tracked your target to the kill. Honestly, I'd say don't claim now, clearing someone else can do wonders for the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Before I go, I want to say something.

I am a medium and Math is saying "Don't ignore my reads." from graveyard.
Just saying

lol
I know this is serious but it's also very funny

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?

I feel like this post kinda suggests PP is town, the incongruous teamguess of Math + PP feels like her trying to sell 100% certified bullshit

[Gamma Emerald]

Why would I ever kill Math there?

Who would then?

Pretty much anyone else?

Math was hard townreading me.

And everyone was hard-townreading Math.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lynching off the wagon is a win I'm almost certain, they're 3 scummiest people

Mhm I'd sure love to hear why you this S_S is scummy

Actually, I kind of want the flip side of this. Why do you think I'm town?

I don't necessarily it's just that I'm curious what makes him think that, since it wasn't a read he expressed d1 and he hasn't justified it beyond his poe.

[Gamma Emerald]

Town: PP, Cheeky
Nullzone: S_S, BB
Suspects: NM and Red

[Gamma Emerald]

There being no town vigilantes, gamma cant kill NSG.

What

[Gamma Emerald]

Someone just hammer Bambi, this game should be on fast forward

Whilst I don't object to the wagon currently, I'd like to get in a little more discussion

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you just are, okay? Just the tone you took at the beginning and shit. I'm huge when it comes to reading personality over actual evidence. It's why I read Gamma starting to do jackshit as scummy and North just fricken getting fusterated by Dino targeting her as town, since I went through that shit as well when I'm town.

How is that read on me personality?

[Gamma Emerald]

Dammit. VOTE: Penguin

bad vote

[Gamma Emerald]

Dammit. VOTE: Penguin

bad vote

Why?

Penguin is town

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok thank you!

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.

could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?

I feel like this post kinda suggests PP is town, the incongruous teamguess of Math + PP feels like her trying to sell 100% certified bullshit

This is why. It's not much but I feel like it's worth considering.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's entrance into today wasn't particularly informative lol. Gamma who do you think it is?

think what is

[Gamma Emerald]

I gave my reads

[Gamma Emerald]

...

...

...

...

...

Just...

VOTE: Bambietta

Yeah, I'm done with this. I'm just... Done.

mfw Jay does this after saying he never would in Tit for Tat

[Gamma Emerald]

I was cop with inno on NM

Had you have claimed my vote would have most likely been on Bambi as well, but ces't la vie, we won anyway
Also Math gets his wish of Jay not being in the next game I guess

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Bambietta

VOTE: Bambi L +3

had to

[Gamma Emerald]

Because you were my biggest townreads. I've been told I'm very anti-town and have a knack for selling out the PRs.

Teach me how to PR hunt, I sux at it

[Gamma Emerald]

As long as I got to viciously murder Dino this round to make me feel slightly better, and knowing I stopped him from being saved is a good comfort.

The funny thing is this time I played as a better townie and DIDN'T sell out the PRs.

lol you just mastina'd, aka playing a better towngame as scum than town

[Gamma Emerald]

Guys let’s conspire to get Mathdino out in the next round

maybe, if I roll scum I'll do it
also we're coming into my least favorite setup of the three, I've played bird 7p on pokemon showdown chat mafia and determined it's scumsided since if scum are worth their salt at pr hunting they can kill the cop no questions asked
possibly reason to lynch Math if I'm town as well
no hard feeling if I come after you Mr. Dino?

[Gamma Emerald]

I still take pride in the fact my two ultimate townreads were the fucking PRs and I blocked the one that could have saved my target.

true I ended up townreading both PRs as well
geegeeeeeeee

[Gamma Emerald]

Damn I thought I didn't give anything away and thought I was clever with my "don't invest me" lol

I didn't catch anything as a PR tell

[Gamma Emerald]

wtf I thought jk rb maf!rb was bad in rb6, what's different here

[Gamma Emerald]

I was all for the bulletproof strategy but I don't really see the benefits of the tracker strategy yet. Don't really want to claim anything for now.

omg lol

[Gamma Emerald]

nope

[Gamma Emerald]

very likely

[Gamma Emerald]

okay let's play a better game

say you were scum and i was all "ey dude i'm fukin vigging u if u don't come up with reads"

what reads would you fake

Cheeky town, Red scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that RVS? Why vote me for a joke?

Actually SS might be scum, this reads way too self-coinscious

[Gamma Emerald]

If I seem cautious it's because this setup is AIDS for the PRs most likely

[Gamma Emerald]

If mafia are any good at PR hunting the cop is fucked

[Gamma Emerald]

Is this still based off me being cautious or?

[Gamma Emerald]

what

[Gamma Emerald]

Is that RVS? Why vote me for a joke?

Actually SS might be scum, this reads way too self-coinscious

Also didn't I just have this conversation with Cheeky?

Yeah but I actually FoSed you

[Gamma Emerald]

Or did you mean this game

Yes

[Gamma Emerald]

Claiming that you are afraid of getting PRhunted is basically claiming that you are a PR. But if you were really cautious of getting PRhunted you would not mention being cautious of getting PRhunted, because saying that you are cautious of getting PRhunted is basically telling scum to kill you.

No? I'm cautious of pushing anyone because they might drop PR tells. Where did I refer to myself getting PR hunted in that post?

[Gamma Emerald]

what happens if town no-luynches til scum win

[Gamma Emerald]

no yeah obviously red and penguin don't make sense

at the same time red is producing more content than penguin

whose point i still don't understand yet

I agree with this sentiment about Red + PP not making sense, that interaction didn't really feel like scum theatre

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Ia gree with that gutread, they were really different

I was doing some reading of RF because I felt like there was some wackedness in his treatment of me and this vote actually completely missed the point of PP's mini-case on me

[Gamma Emerald]

you know there's a difference between "dumb content" and "scum-indicative content" right

gun to my head, i'd be townreading him

there's a certain kind of thought process i haven't seen him fake as scum

the waffling is solely from me wondering if his towntells this game are an anomaly and if he's just playing his most advanced scumgame yet

but that's going to be easy as fuck to tell as long as he keeps talking

Yo
actually I'm gonna survey RF's content for this game yet again cos if I see what I'm expecting I'm prolly gonna locktown him

[Gamma Emerald]

How does Cheeky remind you of Thor?

I think I'm agreeing with Math wrt Thor's MF push kinda looking a bit like Cheeky's Red push here

[Gamma Emerald]

Math answer PP's questions. Gamma you too.

I don't see anything towards me and I just answered the one I saw so...

[Gamma Emerald]

And clarify who MF is?

MY was my pedecessor that game

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like cheeky will scumread math no matter card

What

[Gamma Emerald]

I want to hammer but like
I'm not going to throw out the day off a read I haven't really proofed at all

[Gamma Emerald]

UM I think Cheeky has a point
reads =/= cases

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay then

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm getting the same feeling I did with Mathdino/NSG so I'm really in the mood to just throw down my vote on Cheeky here

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Cheeky

[Gamma Emerald]

[Gamma Emerald]

I think Smart might be scum. Looking at the timing of his input he seems to have wanted to chainlynch Mathdino.

intent to vote smart

cos this is lylo

[Gamma Emerald]

And why cop the obvious candidate for tomorrow’s lynch?

I completely fail to see how he was obvious lol

I copped him because he crumbed my role and I was having trouble reading him

Figured he would never get NKd after the end of day tunnel

I'll do a write up for the partner when I get back to a computer but I didn't exactly expect a scum check here

This narrative makes perfect sense given Math's previous experience with others claiming his role. Not_Mafia you know what I mean.

[Gamma Emerald]

I want NM's commentary first

[Gamma Emerald]

How would it decide the whole game?

[Gamma Emerald]

How would it decide the whole game?

If I am lynched and Math and Penguin roll opposite alignments in Vengeful, nobody else can win.

I thought winning earlier games was just for brownie points

[Gamma Emerald]

Fair.

I want to have some back-and-forth with one or both of you when I'm not on mobile, which is why I want you to not rush. This day will certainly decide this specific game and if you vote wrong it might decide the whole game as well.

When are you going to not be on mobile?

[Gamma Emerald]

Thinking about what? Because if it's about why I feel like Math's narrative makes sense I want to see if NM recognizes what I'm referring to first, as he really should.

[Gamma Emerald]

NM do you understand what I'm saying wrt Math's reasoning for checking Smart making a lot of sense given our experience with Mr. Dino?

[Gamma Emerald]

It refers to Marked for Death 2. In that game Mathdino mentioned it was the second time he let someone fakeclaim his role and they turned out to be scum. As such it makes sense Math would think "I don't want to fall victim to this again" and check Smart when he started crumbing cop.

[Gamma Emerald]

You should look again at the circumstances surrounding the joke crumb.

Claiming that you are afraid of getting PRhunted is basically claiming that you are a PR. But if you were really cautious of getting PRhunted you would not mention being cautious of getting PRhunted, because saying that you are cautious of getting PRhunted is basically telling scum to kill you.

No? I'm cautious of pushing anyone because they might drop PR tells. Where did I refer to myself getting PR hunted in that post?

Come On People, i'm obviously town!

I literally quoted Gamma saying he was afraid of people dropping PR tells and used a smiley. There is no way that this could be interpreted as a serious crumb rather than a joke.

Yeah and guess what? I'd dropped a crumb as a joke in a past game with Mathdino as well, Tit for Tat. So it's logical to expect him to comb for that sort of crumb as well, which seems to be what he did from reading further down.

[Gamma Emerald]

If it's a joke, then it shouldn't be HIS ACTUAL ROLECLAIM.

Why's that?

Humor is humor. I'd make that joke no matter WHAT my role.

I hate it when people argue this. NSG pulled the same shit of "oh I totally act the exact same as PR, VT, and scum" which is just straight up false. When you're a PR, you play with a different mindset. I played this one like shit and figured
- if CT flips scum, probably gg scum even if I get shot
- if CT flips town, at least I'm not getting killed tonight and can gamesolve tomorrow

You play more survivalistically, you're incredibly aware that the game could be decided on whether or not you get NK'd.

And you don't fucking openly crumb your role. People say they'd do that but they straight up don't.

So we should lynch Penguin today then

Gimme some time to metadive and if that looks right, then sure.

Tbh I kinda prefer to just resolve 1v1s on the spot with a pre-ordained lynch order afterwards, since there are more townies alive to talk about the decision. If one of them had the chance to flip information (like mafia roleblocker) or if there were a mechanical benefit to lynching confscum, then sure, but as it is, lynching the partner today just kills a townie.

I'm actually gonna read the game like we'd lynched Smart and you'd been NKed, and see who makes the most sense as Smart's partner. If it's Penguin I'm okay voting Penguin, if not then this will take some thought

[Gamma Emerald]

his first thought was that I was VT trying to draw the NK

This is a complete misrep. He thought it was that or scum dropping a crumb to point to as their proof of claim. What he's saying I believe is that you can't say it was a joke and then point to it as your crumb. That's just playing both sides.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I want to lynch Gamma today.

His posts are too short, even cautious
Is this why you want to lynch him?

This is weird...why didn't you just ask me why I wanted to lynch him? Why lead in?

I find this curious. What were you trying to assert with this?

[Gamma Emerald]

So I'm up to the point where CT goes up against Red and Math calls out her push
I'm hoping to see if anyone took a fencesitty stance or smth

[Gamma Emerald]

I read quite a bit of day 1 and I'm feeling like Mathdino's thoughts are really frikkin genuine
NM do you have any experience with scum!dino where his reads and thought processes came off really natural?

[Gamma Emerald]

Thoughts on things like how Cheeky had been playing

[Gamma Emerald]

How do you not think Math is scum for strongarming the Cheeky lynch? Do you think he and Cheeky are both that bad?

I think he was wrong on his read there, but he was wrong in a genuine way. It's how he gets reads on a lot of people. That's why I want second opinions, to make sure I'm not giving Mathdino credit for something he could easily fake, because I feel like knowing about that method of reading people could make him more wary of being read that way and he'd adjust for it.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay... what about that push did you think was genuine?

Some of the points about being predatory and such. I definitely agree with how Math was viewing Cheeky's play after having checked a couple past games to see if certain scum pushes were predatory. The answer was very much yes, and that re-affirmed the faith that Mathdino's read was not based on a crock of bullshit.

[Gamma Emerald]

It looked like he was pushing it because he found it actually scummy though, not because it was something he could push.

[Gamma Emerald]

not hammering

[Gamma Emerald]

It looked like he was pushing it because he found it actually scummy though, not because it was something he could push.

What's the distinction?

I feel like the way he explained the read wasn't really with the intent to push it as 100% scum as much as it was to pressure Cheeky and hopefully improve her reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

holy shit you weren't showing up as online dude

I mean did you expect him to tell you when he was available to hammer
no one expects the Not_Mafia Quickhammers!

[Gamma Emerald]

so from N_M's standpoint penguin is literally confirmed scum

are we done here then?

gamma where are you at with N_M vs penguin?

I feel like I'm liking Penguin's content more just by virtue of it being there?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay so I was halfway there

[Gamma Emerald]

I was going to ask why 2 was a scenario but I thought for like a second and it makes sense, in this situation it's better as scum to guilty a viable mislynch rather than go for a harder one, since it's more effort for the same payoff or the same amount of backfire.
I'll look into that game you linked tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Let's run through the process of what might happen in scenario 3. SS claims guilty on his partner, possibly to distance or maybe just a gambit to just draw out the real cop. Once real cop CCs SS waits for a town vote in the real cop and then coordinates hammer with PP. Is there anything inconsistent with this timeline?
And yeah we should def be lynching in Math/SS. Lynching in PP/NM just gets the other killed and it's always 3p lylo with me MD and SS
Is this an incorrect appraisal of the situation?

[Gamma Emerald]

PenguinPower (1): Something_Smart, Mathdino

Not Voting (4): Not_Mafia, Gamma Emerald, PenguinPower

VC when I was being hammer tested
We know SS and MD are TvS
By refusing to hammer I prove I'm not scum with Smart (as if MD is scum it's 100% him and PP)
So yeah I'm conftown
So I don't see any problem letting NM into 3p lylo? Whomever is the real cop is getting killed n2 if we lynch correctly here, so I always live to 3p, so we always have a conftown in 3p. So NM and PP just crossvote and I make my judgment.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess Smart presents an issue, but as I said lynching in cops necessitates the real cop gets killed rather than the conftown because any result wins the game for town, so it always ends up me NM PP with me conftown. So that's always better than lynching in PP/NM.

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess Smart presents an issue, but as I said lynching in cops necessitates the real cop gets killed rather than the conftown because any result wins the game for town, so it always ends up me NM PP with me conftown. So that's always better than lynching in PP/NM.

That's only even the case if I'm scum. Since I'm town lynching correctly in the cops just ends the game.

I don't know that. I'm making the argument from my perspective.

[Gamma Emerald]

Idk man there's like a 5% room for doubt there still imo
as for NM having a town meta I think he might have a consistent scum meta? I'm gonna have to start stringing together notes from several town and scum games from when I started paying serious attention to him. I've cuahg thim out once, been scum with him once, been hydra scum with him once (which I wasn't around for), and of course we both know I've moderated for him where he rolled scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Which would actually be equivalent to hammertesting him on Penguin, except he probably won't QH.

Why not?

[Gamma Emerald]

I would like to note...

Mathdino has two ways to confirm Not_Mafia has town.

He has given excuses not to take either one.

I saw one (the selfvote), what was the other?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't get why NM refuses to vote PP in non-mhammer situations as scum

[Gamma Emerald]

NM talk to me about which of Math/Smart you're SRing and why
I don't care about Penguin rn

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm fine

[Gamma Emerald]

I want NM to answer my question so I can work with him

[Gamma Emerald]

NM I don't want you to just vote, I want to discuss with you. Thankfully PP's activity trends don't seem to indicate him being online at this hour so that's nice but I'd still prefer you unvote in case it's Math/PP

[Gamma Emerald]

NM at least tell me what makes you sure it's SS over Math

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm trying to get a read on you v SS, since that's where I intend to vote today

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey EP I can still win right
NM I fucking told you to think it over

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realized NM threw to get into the last game and I'm gonna fuck him up for it

[Gamma Emerald]

ohai I see supp seems to be happening

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: RedFlavor
might as well

[Gamma Emerald]

@Mod:

can i talk about parts 1 and 2 of this game for meta/MD purposes btw

also i just realised my optimal strategy is basically to make sure penguin loses if he's scum

if we're both town and scum wins i still win lol

what
no you fucking don't

[Gamma Emerald]

brw I confirmed a little over an hour ago
also I don't see how dragging out pre-game has any purpose