only scum would think that 15 is a prime number.In post 19, Gamma Emerald wrote:Wow you're right he has posted all prime numbers
VOTE: gamma
only scum would think that 15 is a prime number.In post 19, Gamma Emerald wrote:Wow you're right he has posted all prime numbers
hey cheeky! can we finally have a game where we're both town again?
math, did you ever answer this?In post 119, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why do you think I'm talking specifically about youIn post 115, Mathdino wrote:i actually think i know exactly what you're sayingIn post 87, Gamma Emerald wrote:Thinking about it I have a theory about scumplay in this game but I'll hold it cos I wanna see if anyone plays like I would expect scum to
but i would also play like that as town (if not more likely to)
and i think you know this about me
what do you mean by 2? i don't really get what you're saying here.In post 137, CheekyTeeky wrote:Yeah but he didn't say this specifically. What he said was scummy af. 1. He used rolling town as a reason. 2. He want's you lynched before LYLO which could mean you're not one of the first two people lynched who would be knocked out.
is there some reason in specific to be cryptic about it?In post 143, Mathdino wrote:nah
i didn't think he was specifically talking about me
but i thought about what he was saying and i realised that it basically describes how i'm going to be playing this game (a play that i thought about before even joining)
Hello, sauce.In post 138, Mathdino wrote:reads for bambi:
Bambi: policy lynchable
Cheeky: bad reads and hard townreads you, is scum pocketing you
Gamma: capable of faking gamesolving, probscum sucking up to me
northsidegal: has posted nothing game relevant, basically scumclaiming
Not_Mafia: policy lynchable with extreme prejudice (although should be kept around depending on how spicy his memes are)
PenguinPower: blanket disapproval of optimal claiming strategy is exactly the kind of scum pushback i get from my gamebreaking
RedFlavor: blatantly chainsaw defending/WKing not_mafia, deserves rope, probably scum
SomethingSmart: honestly he's scummy in every game i've played with him so
does that help at all
is that the game where assembler crumbed being scum?In post 218, Something_Smart wrote:These are probably my best recent scumgames.
Cosmopolitan (playing as the then-secret alt iiSq5024)
Chocolate Mafia
I can give you context if you want, or you can just take a completely unbiased look.
i can understand where your explanation is coming from but there's also aIn post 225, Mathdino wrote:I mean I understand being punished for a fuckup on my part, but you should also know what I'm referring to. I'm a bit overgamed.In post 224, northsidegal wrote:you'll have to excuse me if i'm slightly skeptical of that.
I also don't just lie about where my reads come from as scum. You saw me justify my townread on you in RC's game. In this case, I think mixing up my games should be NAI.
Do you read my townread-followed-by-nulltownread as alignment-informed?
not on me, i would think. like, don't you sheep people because you can't get a read somewhere yourself? i wouldn't really believe that reasoning.In post 230, Mathdino wrote:Eh, I think it would be perfectly within my meta to fake-sheep townreads on other people, considering that's a major reason I refused to lynch CT in Be Yourself (thanks RC). But yadda yadda self-meta.
I guess what I'm saying is, wouldn't faking a "oh fuck I mixed up my games" excuse dig myself into an EVEN DEEPER hole? You would get it (presumably), but other people could easily go "yeah I don't buy this bullshit".
what dropped me down, and what raised smart up?
i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.In post 269, Mathdino wrote:I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.
eh, i see what you're saying and i wasn't planning on taking it into account in terms of reads but that type of thing still gives me pause. the few times i've seen it it's never been a false positive, though that could just be caused by there naturally being more town than scum.In post 274, CheekyTeeky wrote:I disagree. I think EP brought it up in a very objective way that doesn't confirm Math's alignment. The point was that Penguin thought it against the spirit of the game and against the rules and EP clarified it was not. It was more a response to EP than a response to Math pushing PLs in the first place.In post 270, northsidegal wrote:i agree and that was actually my first thought upon seeing this. i'm hesitant to really use that to influence my read too much but i'd be inclined to say that it almost mod-spews you as town, given that policy lynches on town as scum would still advance scum wincondition.In post 269, Mathdino wrote:I realise that we're at the point where the mod can't do shit to change it, but I genuinely wonder if we'd be having this conversation at all if I were scum, considering policy lynching 2 townies (or policy lynching my scumbuddy) directly helps scum wincon.
was the bolded a typo? it seems like it wasn't, butIn post 287, Mathdino wrote:At the time of making that original post:
NSG was playing to her scum meta.Penguin I was scumreading.
CT I'm getting really bad feelings about but a lot of that is "I just got screwed by her scumgame so everything pings me now".
And Red I realised was also playing similarly to JK9++.
That "I'm scumreading everyone" post was only mostly ironic. Townreads have been hard to come by. Bambi isn't actually scum by play, and I'll admit that a couple things aren't what I'd expect of scum-Bambi.
So when 4 players are acting more like their scumselves and Bambi is just acting like themself, you kinda have to realise that everyone at the null line and below is actually likely town.
This is WIFOM, and kind of a lazy way to form a read. The contexts are different – if this time i actually feel like the vote is coming from an alignment informed position rather than it feeling genuine, i'm going to call it out. That question itself shouldn't be the basis for a read in the first place, i think. I mean, did you think that i thought you'd forgotten that reaction test last game?In post 314, Mathdino wrote:NSG is weird. I just got out of a game where I lock-towned her as a reaction test specifically to see if she'd get all paranoid of me, under the assumption that she would only do so as town. I was just about to use that tell to townread her but now I realise that of fucking course she'd intentionally fish for townreads by doing that after I literally told her that's the reaction I was fishing for last game.
So I'm back to null there. NSG being at null is a very uncomfortable gamestate.
it feels opportunistic – even if i believe that the mix-up was real the whole tit for tat thing being used as justification for a vote doesn't seem genuine at all. remembering the reaction test and how he explicitly said the reaction he's looking would only really be a reason to drop me down to null (if he was making a lazy read in the first place), not as scum. "nsg isn't towny yet so that's a scumtell" isn't meaningful at all and mathdino knows that.In post 341, CheekyTeeky wrote:NSG how do you feel about Math's progression on his read of you?
where is your read on red coming from?In post 345, Mathdino wrote:but yeah Red-town, Smart-town, Penguin-town-for-now-I-guess-until-I-metadive, and CT/N_M-not-the-scumteam narrows it down a lot
to the point where "NSG is playing her scum meta" basically means she's scum
i mean, it just failed in tit for tat, and it also has a sample size of about 2 i'm pretty sure, so i don't really buy it.In post 362, Mathdino wrote:And "nsg isn't towny yet so that's a scumtell" has a 100% success rate.
This right now is something like the third time i've actually sat down to look at this game. you're literally just trying to activity tell me again, but with proxies for activity rather than just post count itself.In post 367, Mathdino wrote:You were still advancing the gamestate in Tit for Tat early game. The reaction test failed, yes, but I didn't expect it to fail. I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with your ISO early game like I do now.
The spreadsheet didn't work because you play like scum when you're a PR.
i wanted to say hello to cheeky and ask her about her vote, which seemed strange to me. me and cheeky have kind of a history of games together where, for one reason or another, we don't actually really get to play together – i figured that wouldn't be the case here.In post 369, Mathdino wrote:No. But you made that post 6 pages into the game. There was NOTHING better to comment on?
Are you saying iThe emoji made me assume it was non-serious. But you didn't seem to use it to read me. Surely by page 6 there's something more interesting than asking me to answer someone else's question?
i'm not seeing a reason that i'm scum here.No, you talked about those things from an objective top-down view of the gamestate. You noted that you didn't like the idea of it because it feels weird. That's NAI. And if you'd rather lynch scumreads, it didn't help that you didn't seem to have scumreads.
i mean, i personally think i would have gone for the one level deeper play and not have mentioned it, but i don't think that actually matters – again, you voting me at this stage in the game for doing things that aren't strong enough towntells to you is terrible.I didn't say it was a scumtell. It's just not a towntell, which I've already discussed. Even disregarding Tit for Tat, I think you would have to agree that scum-you obviously fakes paranoia if I just call you town for no reason after you were playing consistently with your scumgame.
Your hesitance to use that as a part of your read in my mind is trying to avoid having to locktown me.
I'm telling you right now that "oh i'm the vig, i'll ignore this thread for a while" isIn post 370, Mathdino wrote:You would have completely ignored that game while posting all over the place inIn post 368, northsidegal wrote:This right now is something like the third time i've actually sat down to look at this game. you're literally just trying to activity tell me again, but with proxies for activity rather than just post count itself.In post 367, Mathdino wrote:You were still advancing the gamestate in Tit for Tat early game. The reaction test failed, yes, but I didn't expect it to fail. I didn't think there was anything particularly wrong with your ISO early game like I do now.
The spreadsheet didn't work because you play like scum when you're a PR.
the only reason you think i played like scum that game was because of my activity, and i can tell you right now that it had nothing to do with me being a vigilante instead of vanilla town. my activity would have bene exactlyt he same.every other thread you were a part of?
You'd have to be insane to not agree that THAT level of activity disparity is alignment indicative for plenty of players.
Right now I'm accusing you of active lurking, not lurking.
In post 257, PenguinPower wrote:Oh, no, I don't like how you play.Insulting other players as you have is pretty weak. However, I didn't discredit you (though I think your "optimum" whatever is not), you have explicitly said that you weren't playing the game, and that now your vote on me is only if you "have to play the game." Further, your policy lynches are shit and insulting to the players that are in the game. Grow up a bit.
I'm voting you because you don't seem genuine in your stances at all. Get off your high horse and meta, and come back to the game.
i still think math's progression on me makes no sense in the slightest.In post 382, PenguinPower wrote:UNVOTE:
That went up too fast and I don't care for Cheeky's rationale.
Quite possible I just don't like math's playstyle.
Good to note that Not_Mafia is either town or scum with Math.
the scum progression is that i was next in line after you dropped your other scumreads after the pushback from them and the whole meta point was an easy way for you to segway into that with "nsg not being locktowned means she's scum".In post 494, Mathdino wrote:It doesn't have to make 100% sense to you. From your perspective, you're always town.
It has to make sense for scum-me to progress on you like that.
Does it? Write the scum-narrative for me.
i'm saying that scum you drops scumreads because it's clear that the scumread is hurting you more than anyone else. i mean, that's pretty much exactly how you've described your scumgame before – political.In post 497, Mathdino wrote:So you're saying that scum-me drops scumreads because they scumread me back, and so I go find someone else to antagonise?
it seems that way, and yes.In post 498, Mathdino wrote:1. Do you believe I intend to lynch you today?
2. Do you believe town-Mathdino thinks he can read you easily?
i wouldn't doubt it.In post 502, Mathdino wrote:Do you think that scum-Mathdino thinks you're a viable mislynch?
You're right that my scumgame (and my towngame, you left that out) is political. You've played in both my most indicative scumgames lately, and IIRC, you read Jester Nightless.
Did you get the impression that my scum strategy was to shop around for scumreads until I found one that didn't draw suspicion on me?
what does "beetlejuice" mean?In post 503, CheekyTeeky wrote:Yeah the progression from Penguin is the worst. NSG if you didn't beetlejuice so much I'd call you town for that observation.
Math InB4 you go on about me misreading you but in a really lazy summary of your game so far:
- Setup spec
- Defending yourself
- WIFOM
- Meta overload
You do provide reads, but you don't really seem to be pushing people much this game. You just tag meta onto people to read them as town not town and say you're not using meta to read me but you're not using meta on me because of my meta. Make sense? Meta.
I don't know if a {Math, Penguin} team is feasible. N_M is acting straight up weird. {Penguin, NM} makes sense but feels too easy.
NSG I'm not removing my vote until you give comments on others, pretty please. What do you think of Gamma/SS/Bambi so far?
you keep saying this, but it keeps not being true.In post 511, Mathdino wrote:- NSG has produced very little game-relevant content when she's been here.
could you talk about why nm is your top scumread over math or penguin?In post 506, CheekyTeeky wrote: Ok thank you!
VOTE: Not_Mafia
Beetlejuicing is when you appear when voted. In my understanding anyway.
it took meIn post 517, CheekyTeeky wrote:Almost doubt = zero gut.
i still think math is more likely to be scum, honestly – i'd like to see more of how penguin progresses from here first.Also, he's the only person I've created a case on and he will not provide me with any further content at this point so I'm comfortable sitting there while penguin and Math do their thing. I'm very willing to jump on a penguin wagon at this point. Should we get one started?
Cheeky, when was the last time you saw me get upset? Someone said the same thing about me in a newbie game that I finished recently. I don't even think there's reason to get upset: I think math is scum, so the "nsg not being obvtown means she's scum" isn't genuine.In post 540, CheekyTeeky wrote:In all honesty I do find NSG's lack of frustration at Math constantly tunneling her, over a few games, rather strange. Like yes, she's disagreeing, but I think she either is the most patient person on MS or she finds it hard to produce convincing emotion as scum.
If it were me I would've blown up at Math by now.
Math is trying too hard AI for you?
I don't understand your point here. For one, what motivation would I have to lie about that? If anything as scum it would benefit me to lie and agree with you to cast doubt as to whether any scumreads on me was just because I'm a pr.In post 545, Mathdino wrote: In which her former partner agrees with my scumread on her
So I feel like NSG claiming she plays the same as VT and PR is false
Now I have reason to get upset.
Seriously?In post 556, Gamma Emerald wrote:What are Mathdino and NSG 1v1ing over on page 20 btw?
how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?In post 568, Gamma Emerald wrote: I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread
In post 581, Gamma Emerald wrote:I said I skimmed, nice misrepIn post 578, northsidegal wrote:how can you possible agree that my push on him doesn't make sense when by your own admission you haven't been reading it?In post 568, Gamma Emerald wrote: I skimmed this but I got the "NSG's push on you doesn't make sense given meta plus game theory for this setup". I agree quite a bit.
VOTE: NSG
Since I might actually have ended up on a vanity wagon when trying to wagon my scumread
gamma, although your answer would still be relevant.In post 589, Something_Smart wrote:Me or Gamma?
why wouldIn post 592, Gamma Emerald wrote:It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?In post 588, northsidegal wrote:could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?
First of all, the exact same thing applies with regards to mathdino towards me. what's more, what you're describing as my mentality just doesn't make sense for anyone. your chances of rolling town in future games is always more than your chances of rolling scum, so if you were going to play with future games in mind you would always play towards a future towngame over a future scumgame.In post 597, Gamma Emerald wrote:Because you respect his town play and would be rather concerned if he were town? And what do you think you know about his scumgame?
i'm saying that's what i know if hisIn post 599, Gamma Emerald wrote:Why are you scumreading him for something you know that is just a thing he does then (being bad at realtime interaction)? And what is playing politically?
i'm not making that argument.In post 604, Gamma Emerald wrote:I get that but are you saying your lynch is beneficial for this or future game for MD, and why?
To be frank, saying "if nsg is town i'm town because I'd never push her as scum" and "if i'm town nsg is scum because i'm right" is an idiotic double standard.In post 611, Mathdino wrote: wat
If NSG is scum, my alignment is indeterminate. I can't honestly tell you I don't bus in micros, because I have.
If NSG is town, I'm town by virtue of "what the fuck is Math doing trying to get a mislynch on town-NSG hurting his future games".
If I'm town, NSG is highly likely scum, because I'm likely right.
If I'm scum, NSG alignment is still indeterminate, because something something godly busplay.
You lynch the more likely person to be scum.
You are not responding to the point i'm actually making.In post 612, Mathdino wrote:Points for creativity, but it doesn't work backwards at all.In post 577, northsidegal wrote:i can't ignore a read just because of the setup, and the counter to what mathdino is saying holds perfectly true for me. if "why would scum mathdino try to lynch nsg" is a point you're going to make, how can you ignore "why would scum nsg try to lynch mathdino"?
I've never at any point said "yep NSG believes she can read me perfectly". Hell, I have strong reason NOT to believe that you believe that, given Tit for Tat, where you shot someone because you thought I was scum.
So unless your argument is "scum-NSG just wants Dino around in later games because he's fun to play with", that's a trash argument.
In post 594, northsidegal wrote:why wouldIn post 592, Gamma Emerald wrote:It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?In post 588, northsidegal wrote:could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?iwant math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?
why would i be playing towards rolling scum in future games instead of rolling town? you also ignored the second part of what i said.In post 616, Mathdino wrote:Respecting my townplay only works if we both roll town.In post 594, northsidegal wrote:why wouldIn post 592, Gamma Emerald wrote:It's as Math said; if he believes he can read you why would he want you out of the game d1, where if you lose he can't keep you around to read in future games?In post 588, northsidegal wrote:could you explain how it doesn't make sense to you?iwant math out of the game when i respect his townplay and feel that i have a pretty good grasp on his scumgame?
Like the whole point of this is that I think I can read you, and am thus more dangerous to you on opposite alignments.
I mean do you think I should just be townreading you for the OMGUS?
i don't think saying "it's not a double standard because i'm right" is actually an argument.In post 619, Mathdino wrote:It's not a double standard because the scenario here is town-Math and scum-NSG. So when I say "If NSG is town" I'm describing an improbable scenario anyway, but under that improbable scenario, I'm still HIGHLY LIKELY town.
I'm not using the argument back at you, i'm pointing out its inherent contradiction. Saying "mathdino would never lynch nsg as scum" loses any sort of weight when you ignore the inverse of "nsg wouldn't lynch math as scum". i don't even think the argument is correct in the first place – for anyone who rolls scum, just winningIn post 623, Mathdino wrote:Also, if you're trying to use the argument back at me, you're acknowledging that it objectively holds ground, right?
i recall you saying it to describe your own scumgame in a game i read/was in, though i can't remember specifically where.In post 624, Mathdino wrote:I'm not sure where you got the "worse at realtime interaction" idea.
Because my ISO isn't barren in the slightest? Like I said, you keep saying this and it keeps not being true.How in god's name is it unreasonable to you that I've been scumreading you off your barren ISO?
Like jesus christ you told me in Anything uPick that "anyone with a grasp of my meta should be scumreading me". So you clearly have it in you to acknowledge when you've been playing to your scum meta. And again, you've ALSO framed me as one of two players who thinks we can read you off like 5 posts.
So reading your first 8 posts, you don't think that town-Mathdino pushes you here?
That's actually insane. You're trying to frame this as "well scum-Mathdino plays like this", when you haven't seen me play like this, when I've already refuted the idea of scum-Mathdino doing this, and to top it off, you haven't explained why town-Mathdino DOESN'T PLAY LIKE THIS. My entire scumread on you is based on "town-NSG doesn't play like this"!
Then, in a span whereIn post 272, Mathdino wrote:i thought i explained the mixup already
is why i was all weirded out about NSG's weirded-out-ness
okay i actually do think NSG is town *for now*
In post 329, CheekyTeeky wrote:No I think you're being biased. There's no motivation for scum Penguin to drop an AtE when he's under not very much pressure early game. It felt 100% genuine to me and is the main reason I lock TR him.
I started off not knowing how I felt so I pushed him. Then I kind of felt his reaction to the claim was fine as he wasn't using it as an excuse to scum read you at the time he was saying he didn't agree. Then I thought he misrepped you by saying you weren't playing the game, but then he clarified what he meant and pointed out your ego/high horse thing which made me lock town him, because your opening game is RCesque so his points are valid although I'm not PLing you today for it.
AndIn post 331, CheekyTeeky wrote:You're literally OMGUSing him from my PoV and that's why I wanted to understand your scum read.
i never said that lynching me was a "game winning move" – what i'm saying is that scum would simply prioritize winning over anything else.In post 629, Mathdino wrote:And you think that for scum-me, lynching you is the game-winning move?
Like, as opposed to getting lynches on Bambi, N_M, or Penguin?
i don't really understand the reasons there? like, from my point of view i think the way he went about deaing with my wagon was slightly scummy but i don't think that's why other people are voting there.In post 626, Bambietta Basterbine wrote:Like seriously North and Dino, your conversation was the main attraction but I don't think either of you are talking about what the rest of the town want. Or even mentioned your opinions on Gamma at ALL to contribute to such a vote. So if you can kindly give your opinion on this, that would be much appreciated.
lie.In post 778, Mathdino wrote:i welcome you to go into her post history and find out if she has a generally anti-PL stance
like she can correct me if i'm wrong but i haven't seen that kind of thing from her
Stop speaking to me like this.In post 795, Mathdino wrote:but i accept your argument that your scumbuddy is not necessarily N_M or Bambi