And no, Luca hasn't claimed VT, but I don't think he's a power role.In post 1798, Mathdino wrote:We want to jail a VT claim imo. I think that should be Luca.
Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]
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Fucking lol
HEAL: Paradox
Paradox you're gonna have to explain why you've been softclaiming power role for 2 days straight. That's a major part of why I was townreading you.- Mathdino
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Hey guys lemme drop where half of my locktownread on Paradox came from.
In post 438, TheGoldenParadox wrote:
Incorrect. I believe you are not a PR for other reasons.In post 360, Mathdino wrote:
If you think that I would never forget if I were a PR because I seem like I have a great memory, you're dead wrong. In fact, I'm pretty sure RedFlavor only asked us to confirm our alignments, which means I never even had to type back my role.In post 357, TheGoldenParadox wrote:I doubt this slot is a PR for reasons that it'd probably be anti-town to discuss.In post 521, TheGoldenParadox wrote:HOT TAKE: I'm 99% dying tonight.In post 1153, TheGoldenParadox wrote:But you literally JUST TOLD jk not to counterclaim, so the "suboptimal" strategy, claiming VT, isn't suboptimal anymore. Why couldn't you have waited until after the claim to say this?In post 1317, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Now let me think what I can do. I fricking want to join this mutant wagon, but I don't b/c I'm not confident in him. A dino or A50 lynch is not going anywhere, even though they're quite obviously scum manipulating town. I have no idea how you guys are this blind to see it but w/e. I don't want to votepark him again because look where that went last time so I'm going to put in a humble request,because I'm sure he's not PRand I'm almost certain he's scum:
@vig: kill dino.
What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.[/quote]In post 1329, TheGoldenParadox wrote:no no no frick you pintu.
Do not vig pintu, it's a bad idea, he's town. Anen is likely town. I'm not getting behind an anen lynch today, and I certainly oppose it.
From this, I locked Paradox as for sure TPR.
But he's not a fucking vig so what the hell was this all about?- Mathdino
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Messed up the last quote but yeah.
HURT: Paradox
HEAL: Aneninen
I'd much rather have Aneninen as conftown than Paradox.- Mathdino
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Explain every single post you made in the quote wall in 1806.
1. Why did you believe I was not a PR?
2. Why was it anti-town to explain this?
3. Why did you think you were dying N1?
4. Elaborate on the issue you were taking in 1153.
5. Explain how the fuck you still want me vigged after literally every single read you had on D1 was wrong.- Mathdino
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- How was I not acting like I was carrying a big stick? I went on about how I wasn't getting D1 lynched repeatedly.
- I literally claimed at least 10 times that I didn't remember my role PM, yet you continued to claim I wasn't a PR.
- Why the hell would you repeatedly verbalise that you didn't think I was a PR in the first place?- Mathdino
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LOOOOOOOOL
VIG SHOULD CLEARLY NOT REVEAL- Mathdino
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Then it's a good thing I'm not actively vighunting?
@Gamma:Aneninen has already claimed VT. He should clearly be the one to jail, given that jailing jmo, NSG, or mutant (all of whom had no issue with vigging pintu) runs the risk of jailing the vig.
VOTE: Jay
When he flips scum:
Vig Paradox
Jail Aneninen
If he flps VT:
Vig mutantdevle
Jail whoever you want
If he flips Jailkeeper:
Vig Gamma Emerald
Sound good? Good.
Jay you can self-hammer.- Mathdino
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If you're town, you've successfully outed and sealed the fate of the jailkeeper, while forfeiting your right to direct the town in your absence.
You say you thought I was jailkeeper, yet repeatedly said through D1 that you didn't think I was a PR,even started wagoning me and A50, ignored my reads, and were fully aware that you were my and A50's top scumread for today, yet you expected you could claim jailkeeper and I would just let you get away with it? If I were jailkeeper I would've counterclaimed on the spot.
If you're town, you need to take a serious look at your play. Developing a meta of fakeclaiming to save yourself is horrid.
A better strategy is to not ignore players' reads when you know they're good at reading each other. Get better as town and you won't have to fakeclaim.
If you're scum, hats off, you played fine and got fucked by good town.
Yeah I'm ready to end the day.- Mathdino
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If you actually have no regrets, you've basically made yourself the hands down optimal policy lynch of the open queue.- Mathdino
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In post 1821, Mathdino wrote:When he flips scum:
Vig Paradox
Jail Aneninen
If he flps VT:
Vig mutantdevle
Jail whoever you want
If he flips Jailkeeper:
Vig Gamma Emerald- Mathdino
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NSG made a terrible shot
It's mutant/Paradox, and gammas jail tonight will give us the 1 mislynch to solve it- Mathdino
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I should basically be conf town once mutant flips scum- Mathdino
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The vig was super obviously in {NSG, jmo}. Jay literally openly fished for the vig. That combined with NSG referring to N1 as a confidence booster, yeah.In post 1843, Luca Blight wrote:Whoever is scum obviously had a good idea NSG was vig - missing a pr would have basically been game over for scum at this point.
From my perspective it could have been Mutant, jmo or NSG - which I guess lends value to Mutant being one of the scum.
What I'm wondering is what kind of scumteam thinks vig is actually a bigger threat to them than jailkeeper.
You should also rule out a Math/mutant scumteam on the basis that I tried my damnedest to get him vigged.In post 1844, Luca Blight wrote:Do we feel safe ruling out a Math/Paradox scumteam? I've been paranoid about that for a while, but there were a few interactions which make it seem unlikely.
If we can rule that out then at least one of Mutant/Anen are scum.
My basic argument here is to Gamma:
The scumteam made an objectively suboptimal play there. Confirmed Jailkeeper before Possible Vigilante in potential MyLo is the correct call.
That is not a play I would even have thought of making. The scumteam for whatever reason thought the jailkeeper was less of a threat than the vig.
This implies one of 2 things:
1. Your reads are significantly shittier than NSG's
2. mutant is likely scum, AND mutant is scum who took the shot knowing you would jail elsewhere.
@NSG:To be clear the reason that was a questionable shot is because Gamma very well could've jailed jmo, stopping the shot altogether.- Mathdino
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If it isn't obvious by VCA alone that the scumteam is literally {mutant, Paradox} idk what to tell you.In post 1667, Mathdino wrote:
RVS jmo wagon next to the policy jmo wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:jmo16mla(4) ~northsidegal, Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox,Luca Blight
jmo16mla (4) ~ northsidegal, Creature, Gamma Emerald, JaydragonKing
Everyone ballsy enough to vote me.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Mathdino (4) ~JaydragonKing, TheGoldenParadox,Luca Blight,Gamma Emerald
Early pressure wagon next to the lategame lurker wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:northsidegal(4) ~Creature,Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox,JaydragonKing
northsidegal(4) ~JaydragonKing,Almost50,Mathdino,Luca Blight
The Gamma wagon, now confirmed to be partially scum motivated.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Gamma Emerald(6) ~jmo16mla,Pinturicchio, Mathdino, TheGoldenParadox, mutantdevle,Luca Blight
The Pintu "lynch"wagon, with TheGoldenParadox's intent to hammer.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Pinturicchio(6) ~northsidegal, mutantdevle,Luca Blight, Mathdino,Almost50,JaydragonKing,TheGoldenParadox
The many forms of the Aneninen wagon. All players who were on it are:In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Aneninen (5) ~ TheGoldenParadox, Mathdino,Luca Blight,Almost50,Gamma Emerald
Aneninen (6) ~Almost50,JaydragonKing, Mathdino,Luca Blight,Pinturicchio, mutantdevle
Aneninen (6) ~ Mathdino,Luca Blight,Almost50,Gamma Emerald,Pinturicchio,JaydragonKing
TheGoldenParadox, Mathdino, Luca Blight, Almost50, Gamma Emerald, JaydragonKing, Pinturicchio, mutantdevle.
mutant counterwagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:mutantdevle (5) ~ Aneninen,Gamma Emerald, Mathdino,Almost50,JaydragonKing
Shitshow of a lynch wagon.In post 1664, Mathdino wrote:Almost50 (6) ~Pinturicchio,JaydragonKing,Luca Blight, mutantdevle, TheGoldenParadox,Gamma Emerald
Go to town, VCA enthusiasts.
We lynch one scum today, we win mechanically. We lynch ANYONE today, we can still win mechanically (it's just harder). That is why shooting the vigilante was the wrong call.- Mathdino
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Yeah this is pretty blatant.In post 1849, Luca Blight wrote:
This I guess means Anen is unlikely to be scum?In post 1403, pinturicchio wrote:
Well then, what are you waiting for. Jump on the wagon again, let's lynch Aneninen and if he flips town, the vig shoots Dino.In post 1400, Luca Blight wrote:I actually really agree with Anen's point about Math manipulating the vig, which is why I feel one of them is scum.If Aneninen flips scum, we follow the first plan and the vig shoots me.
VOTE: mutant
Aneninen is basically conftown from that alone. I refuse to believe pintu is THAT good at scum.
Pick whichever of mutant/Paradox you think I'm more likely to be partners with if you're not confident about me. Since I'm literally trying to prove I'm not scum with mutant, I'd figured that'd be him, but w/e.
Lynch mutant, jail Paradox. If there's a kill somehow, it's Aneninen vs me. If there's no kill, lynch Paradox.- Mathdino
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In post 1028, Creature wrote:Uh sure, Jay can die.
Also recall that mutant was literally the one who started using Creature's reads as a basis for generating reads.In post 1232, Creature wrote:I think mutant is town, but whatever.
That flips NKA around to idea of "mutant killed Creature for being on the wrong track so he could sheep him".- Mathdino
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Gamma, it doesn't matter.
mutant was lined up to be vigged last night. If he's scum, he was 100% the one that took the shot. You jailing Paradox just slightly decreases the likelihood of Paradox/Aneninen scumteam in a kind of Bayesian way.
We lynch mutant, jail Paradox again. Or Aneninen if you're feeling super spicy. But Aneninen isn't scum.
Edit: Gamma, no, stop it. Jay openly fished for the vig. NSG was obvious vig.- Mathdino
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I also have no idea why they would rolecop NSG over me for example.In post 1856, Gamma Emerald wrote:ok I guess I'll not worry about Anen being scumyet. Also it's possible rolecop actually found the vig n1 so maybe we can smoke them out by finding some sort of crumb or inconcsistency.
Granted, if the team is mutant/Paradox, I guess I'd expect them to make bad night actions.
Shooting Creature for the NKA was itself a bad move tbh.
Plus if we're referencing Team Mafia, you should know from Team Mafia that I wouldn't shoot Creature while he was townreading me and my partner.
mutant, given that he explicitly used Creature's reads as a tool, definitely would.- Mathdino
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Aneninen was doing it so I figured "what the hell".
But yeah we should end this.- Mathdino
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Oh, yeah, and if I'm wrong on this, I fully accept that that's essentially a scumclaim from me.- Mathdino
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Honestly this post pretty much confirms it. I've been in awkward 5p LyLos with a scumbuddy before, where you don't wanna hardbus (because you'd lose 3p) but you also can't figure out what to make of them.
If we lynch wrong today, that gives Gamma a 50/50 shot at jailing the scum that does the kill. I think we can rule out more than enough scumteams to argue that it's basically gonna be 50/50.In post 1863, mutantdevle wrote:Umm no, that's not how it works. If we lynch wrong today then we've as good as lost IMO. If today's lynch ends up as town then Gamma will have 3 players to potentially jail. Even though it's a 2/3 chance of jailing scum, only one of them is going to be performing the kill. A town flip means Gamma's jail will decide the game with only a 1/3 chance of winning. We shouldn't be so careless about this lynch.
I'm also not comfortable having the lynch be between myself and Paradox. Anen should be included in the pool as well. I think you and TGP are both town but TGP less so; by PoE that must mean TGP is scum but I am far more confident in Anen and that's who I want lynched today.
You understand a scumflip would mean the game is basically over for scum?
Why would you be unwilling to lynch Paradox then if you don't think Math/Anen is the scumteam?- Mathdino
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I'm saying that since we lined you up to be vigged, Gamma was definitely not jailing you, so you-scum would be free to perform the nightkill.In post 1865, mutantdevle wrote:
Umm, why does shooting a potential vig instead of a confirmed jailkeeper make specifically me scum exactly?In post 1848, Mathdino wrote:2. mutant is likely scum, AND mutant is scum who took the shot knowing you would jail elsewhere.
Shooting a potential vig instead of a confirmed jailkeeper actually makes Paradox scum, because he has no idea how to play mechanically optimally.- Mathdino
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VOTE: Paradox- Mathdino
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You agree a single scumflip solves the game.
Prove you're town by voting with me.- Mathdino
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Like, you have to be aware that the town's general lynch preference today is
mutant > Paradox > Anen/Mathdino
You're straight up not getting your Aneninen lynch. Luca and I would never join that wagon.- Mathdino
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also can i just point out that NSG shooting jmo (my townread, who is explicitly better lategame) on her own whim despite clear implied consensus on shooting mutant
is literally my exact proof that vigs are anti-town
had vig literally just been a named townie, we'd have lynched pintu D1, Jay D2, and mutant D3, leaving us in a better situation with fewer townies dead- Mathdino
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this but applied to literally everyone in this gameIn post 1874, mutantdevle wrote:Pedit2: Okay, I'll take up your offer on sheeping you on Paradox. I guess I kinda owe it to you after ignoring what you said about A50. But if you're wrong about this then you have no right to ever tell me to sheep you again on my town reads in any future games.
my townreads this game were
A50: who y'all lynched
jmo: who NSG vigged
Creats: who got shot
Gamma: cleared by VCA, and was scummy by play because PRs play scummy
Paradox: who i literally only townread because he was softclaiming power role constantly throughout D1
i also scumread all the TPRs which is pretty par for the course for me
god-tier PoE- Mathdino
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This is inconsistent. What possible scumteams could quickhammer?In post 1875, mutantdevle wrote:I'm unvoting if I see a naked vote though because that usually means that there's a quick hammer inbound.- Mathdino
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You think Aneninen blows up at me like he did if I were bussing himsolely using PoE logic?- Mathdino
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I said he was WILLING to bus. Which Anen quickly clarified by noting that he was literally not the one bussing in the game I linked.- Mathdino
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Claiming backup rolecop was a major element of thatIn post 1884, Gamma Emerald wrote:I want to go through things a bit more before choosing who to lynch
Also I don't particularly understand what Luca did to get to townlock status
VOTE: mutant
Wanted to see if Paradox would try to get out of lynching mutant, but yeah, mutant is more likely scum here.- Mathdino
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Then we're playing a game of "who isn't scum with Aneninen" because you're never gonna get me to lynch Anen today.- Mathdino
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This is a ridiculous ill-defined scumbuddy read.In post 392, pinturicchio wrote:\My second thought is that I have read many games with GoldenParadox in them and have played with him too, and I think I can sort him pretty easily (I think I always got his role correct except for one time he fakeclaimed being VT). That being said, I'm gut townreading him for the way he has posted until now. I need more posts from him to townread him for real, but he is now in my top town tier.- Mathdino
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Here we have pintu weighing the benefits of lynching Aneninen vs lynching mutant.In post 825, pinturicchio wrote:I was pointing out that, by your logic, it would be more reasonable to go for someone who jumped on a wagon than someone whose wagon didn't get momentum because "scum didn't want to vote him". Aneni's case (as pointed out by Aneni himself) has no explanation at all, why would town jump there? Gamma's case, on the other hand, had some good arguments so it would be easier to jump there for scum. I'm not saying you are one of those scums; I'm actually thinking mutant could be scum on that jump and he had to build his case against him AFTER jumping and not BEFORE jumping. BUT, on my point of view, I can't get much information from that, as I am still scumleaning Gamma (not scumreading any more, tho).
So, my point is: could it be a better wagon than Aneni's wagon right now? What is it about Creature and A50 that you trust them so much? If you think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon, shouldn't a mutant wagon have more sense at this point?
Look, we don't even need to rule out a scumteam, we can just assert that pintu is scum with Paradox.
Look at the wagon data and tell me Paradox isn't hilariously obvscum, ESPECIALLY SO if you're townreading me.- Mathdino
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Paradox gives intent to hammer right after Jay does, TRIES TO PAIR SCUMPINTU WITH ME/A50, then retracts the hammer, hard defends pintu, and constantly calls on the vig to shoot me.In post 1117, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Intent to hammer.
@dino, fine. But tomorrow, no guarantees. I believe that you+A50+pintu is a very probable scumteam here based on rereading and interactions.- Mathdino
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HELLOIn post 1145, mutantdevle wrote:
I think he meant "for now" as in all he is doing 'for now' is claiming VT. I doubt he's going to come back and claim something elseIn post 1142, TheGoldenParadox wrote:Can we realize that Pin said "for now," which is actually quite scummy?
Also, I'd be more comfortable lynching Anen after Pintu's flip.
SCUM/SCUM INTERACTION RIGHT HERE- Mathdino
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Am I flip floppy?
I assert that the scumteam is mutant/Paradox. I'm obviously willing to lynch either.
Paradox scumflip clears me harder than a mutant scumflip so I suppose that's optimal, but given that I'm still objectively a suspect, I'll vote whichever of mutant/Paradox makes them most comfortable.- Mathdino
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Yup. Aneninen, if scum, was basically doing nothing for his wincon, with the sole exception of trying to bus/mislynch mutantdevle.
VOTE: Paradox
I think it's clear that one of mutant/Aneninen is scum. Them being scum together makes no sense with VCA.- Mathdino
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I mean probably something to do with the fact that I'm powerlynching him if he FoSes me.- Mathdino
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Hey mutant what do you think of this post right here?In post 1395, TheGoldenParadox wrote:
What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.In post 1391, Luca Blight wrote:I'm currently thinking:
vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.
Fuck, man, I could literally lynch either of you. These Aneninen scumteams are ludicrous.- Mathdino
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Why would he bus Aneninen here when he could legit just say "I trust Dino's reads if he's town, so vig Pintu"?- Mathdino
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Hey Gamma if you actually want to end a game soon you'll vote between mutant and Paradox.In post 3585, Gamma Emerald wrote:don't wanna overgame but if a game ends soon or smth I'll join 718
We have them caught in a bus. The wait is tiresome.- Mathdino
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Something something I'm obviously not scum with Aneninen so this isn't a quickhammer, and Paradox claiming it is is basically a scumclaim.
VOTE: mutant- Mathdino
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*If Paradox claims it is, he's basically scumclaiming.In post 1908, Mathdino wrote:Paradox claiming it is is basically a scumclaim.- Mathdino
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Gamma, jail Paradox tonight. Obviously your death confs him as town and means we lynch Anen.
Upon no kill, we lynch Paradox and I guess you're free to jail me.- Mathdino
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VOTE: Paradox
Nope, a couple things in Paradox's ISO are making me wary of him/Anen.- Mathdino
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SOMEONE HAMMER THANK YOU
Gamma jail mutant if this flips scum
if this flips town, do what you want- Mathdino
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That's game over. mutant confirmed not scum with Aneninen.- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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You're confirmed town. Or at least confirmed not scum with me or mutant.
If you're scum, you're specifically scum with Paradox.
That means the possible scumteams are:
Paradox/Aneninen
Paradox/mutant
Paradox/Mathdino (which is disproved by me insisting on lynching him today even after Gamma picked mutant)
mutant/Mathdino (which is disproved by me having to remind NSG that mutant is scummy and needs to be vigged)
I don't think I need to tell you how to vote here.- Mathdino
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Gamma, I and the rest of the town will be acting tomorrow as if you jailed mutant.
If you fail to jail mutant and die... that's gonna be a loss.- Mathdino
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this obviously goes out the window if mutant flips town
because that would mean aneninen is afraid you'll jail correctly- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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*if Paradox flips town- Mathdino
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Mathdino Survivor
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Town in no way deserved this
Congrats to mafia for bringing it to a coin flip- Mathdino
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A50, had you not self-hammered, we could've easily gotten Aneninen lynched that day.
Creature's reads were enough to get one scum, lol.
Gamma clear town MVP, was wagoned hard for being right.
Jay... you can't keep doing this. Had Gamma lost the coinflip, I'd be comfortable arguing town loss was your responsibility.
jmo is a lategame player and was obvtown, lol.
Luca nailed pintu gj wp.
NSG WHY DID YOU VIG JMO WHEN WE AGREED ON MUTANT
VIGS ARE ANTI-TOWN
Paradox.
- Don't publicly rolefish
- Think before you post
- Realise that not every case of people having good reads is literally "you're scum"
ty
Scumteam deserved the win. None of them obvtowned but none of them obvscummed either (other than mutant's scumslip which NSG didn't vig).- Mathdino
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Fakeclaiming and drawing the nightkill doesn't work when scum literally have a rolecop to check for themselves. It just gives scum more mislynches.- Mathdino
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not a hard scumslip but a soft one which NSG and i pointed outIn post 1588, mutantdevle wrote:
Just pointing out, we don't actually have to hunt the rolecop necessarily. Once we kill either of the last 2 scum they practically lose the role (unless they are so stupid they'd rather role check someone instead of killing). But, in Jay's case, I guess this works as an argument they are scum.In post 1581, Mathdino wrote:btw i'm also willing to bet that jay is our mafia rolecop
he's actively PR hunting and also taunted us with the A50 "scumflip"
classic jay thing to do as scum, breadcrumbing his actual scum role
enough for me to solidify what was originally a game-long nullread on you into a hard scumread
you should've been vigged for this- Mathdino
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also lol at the idea of getting me to hard townread you by replicating my advice to you at the end of stack the deck
that was advice on getting townread by other people
pocketing me is a somewhat different process- Mathdino
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something something it was the way you said it
and the fact that you didn't make any indication of having actually gone and read the setup post
it was very much different from your behaviour in Switch, where i locktowned you (unfortunately only after i died, but you can read that PT to see why i townread you there)
i'm a tell-reliant player, i assume any scum that isn't brain-dead can easily fake scumhunting and charisma
the advice i gave you in stack the deck was more charisma-focused and "how to not get mislynched" IIRC
i am not as good at scum as i am at town so my advice in not getting lynched as scum would be different
if i had any- Mathdino
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i mean i feel like he successfully did that on literally every day possible
dodged the lynch to let A50, Jay, AND Paradox self-destruct
the distancing between this scumteam was god-tier, i literally switched to Paradox because i was convinced mutant/aneninen made 0 sense - Mathdino
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