Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

[Tchill13]

Hey guys. I'll definitely be able to offer catch up by tonight.

[Tchill13]

I'd like Dr. Fanta and Korina's opinions on who I should think is the most probable scum and why though.

[Tchill13]

Well just Dr.Fanta. I replaced korina lol.

[Tchill13]

Honestly? Post count. I just looked at it and picked two people.

[Tchill13]

Honestly? Post count. I just looked at it and picked two people.

Initially I was kinda 'meh' on Laser's question because the obvious answer was 'proven town via flip' and 'proven town via role PM'.

But your answer is *ewwww*.

This is my first replace in. I just gave it a quick glance and randomly picked 2 ppl. Looks like I shouldn't have even given an answer. It's NAI.

[Tchill13]

wilky or TChill today

Still haven't caught up but I seen a few votes on not mafia. This could be opportunistic.

@notmafia why is my slot scummy?

[Tchill13]

Korina and Almost50 even have the exact number of posts, so...

Not a fan of this. Why do you get to dictate how I randomly choose who to ask? Even if they are the same amount of posts? Posts count is NAI. So why does this even bother you that I picked that method to randomly ask people?

[Tchill13]

You know what we could do? We could act like this is my first post because I just so happen to pick the dead guy and the guy I replaced lol. Like I said I'll catch up in a few hours. Apologies for the ignorance.

It did get a few reactions though so that's nice.

[Tchill13]

Hey I'm glad I could at least provide some entertainment lol.

[Tchill13]

vote: tchill

Hard policy or I replace out.

??? i was scum the only time we played together. i did what i had to do to win. if you think i play that way every time so be it. Tbh i thjought you were a good player and was looking forward to playing with you. oh well.

[Tchill13]

sheep reads/ agree? i picked middle of the pack post counts because scum tend to try and stay in the middle of the pack in the game. I wasn't going to sheep or agree with anyone necessarily?

[Tchill13]

vote: tchill

Hard policy or I replace out.

??? i was scum the only time we played together. i did what i had to do to win. if you think i play that way every time so be it. Tbh i thjought you were a good player and was looking forward to playing with you. oh well.

if i remember correctly i even complained about seemingly only finding good townies when i was scum in the scum chat lol. i'm not gonna apologize for play that led to a victory but to assume i play the same exact way every time is incorrect.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Beefster

It's a good policy lynch, and, hey, maybe a wolf or scum to boot.

VOTE: Thor665
No protown player does this in RVS. Semi-serious vote.

i've seen this more from "weird town play" than i have scum.

[Tchill13]

Why couldn't I be scum and also honestly consider you a valid policy lynch?

Can you explain why you think Beefster is worth a policy lynch? I've never played with him before, but I'm getting Town vibes from him at the moment.

He becomes a blind unreadable sheep.
Go ahead and ISO a few of his recent games and get back to me if you love his play.

im not a fan of thor being town because of a few post in rvs. i can agree on his thoughts here though... If i remember correctly.

[Tchill13]

That's sorta what you do though . You point out actions or posts that seem like they have scum motivation.

There's where I am struggling I can't see any scum motivation from Thor or Paradox here.

while neither thor nor paradox have shown much scum motivation up to this point i believe bujabar maybe the scummiest.

[Tchill13]

No

from what i can remember notmafia isn't exactly the "team" mentality type. a refusal to explain doesn't surprise me.

[Tchill13]

If you thought the phases were shorter I would have expected much less backseat play from you.

Are you used to such low posting rates in the shorter days as well? Or are you just happy to sit and watch everyone play around you?

Why even partake in RVS if you are going to dismiss it as useless?

And on a more topical note, why do you scumread Thor if you just idle through day 1 unless there is a scumslip?

NM so you scumread Thor?
Why? Why not?

Upon rereading I have comvinced myself that skitter v Thor is definitely TvS. Or in this game possibly SvW. So I'll be voting there and only there. Whether you like it or not Thor you made it binary.

VOTE: Skitter

Ooooooo, the hypocrisy.

You know there's five scum to find and you just tried to ease yourself to a vote between two people.

Vote: BuJ

That will sit well until people force NM to do something.

at first glance of the first two quotes i believed espeonage was being quite opportunistic but luckily its quite apparent he's poking for reads. I agree with his last quote completely at this phase in the game.

[Tchill13]

Serious question what is worse letting NM coast because he's NM or lynching him early because he's NM?

if you let a player coast because of meta they'll never change detrimental play. If he continually got voted out because of detrimental play he'd be forced to change it eventually.

[Tchill13]

I must have misread it.

Okay I'm day 1 lynch. Unforgivable mistake.

Also, saying this when you only have 2 votes on you is hilarious to me.

exactly what i was thinking. looking forward to seeing why fanta was lynched instead of bujaber.

[Tchill13]

On NM, I think it's not a good idea to let him coast along for too long. It's what he did the last game I played with him, where we were both scum, and he was very good at not getting too noticed and having people think he was town because his play was consistent with his meta and therefore NAI.

If he actually engages at some point then we can get some reads but if he continues like this it basically becomes impossible to read him.

so just to be straight fanta got lymched OVER bujabar and NM? when it's quite obvious and agreed upon NM will be in anyone's lynch pool until he decides to participate which is highly unlikely. Anyone that points to NM and says "yeah he's suspicious but..." will stick out like a sore thumb to me. NM is exactly the type of player scum keep around until it's time to win the game. Keep your lynch pool short and get rid of the players you know will be in it.

[Tchill13]

No

from what i can remember notmafia isn't exactly the "team" mentality type. a refusal to explain doesn't surprise me.

lol

trust me i didn't forget about you accusing me of being the "hero" type. If you want to continue that fine. I'd much rather work together though.

[Tchill13]

alright. i've read the first 10 pages and skipped the wall posts of thor/skitter.

Laser and espeonage are probably town. I feel pretty good about that.

i can definitely see why korina looks suspect. Very defensive when being called out as a lurker and felt the need to explain.

that being said im wondering why fanta was lynched over Bujabar, korina and NM now.

Skitter comes off as town but thats probably the person i have my eye on the most that i dont necessarily believe is scum/werewolve.

montosh seemed town enough.

NM and bujabar are who i want lynched. thats the first 10 pages.

[Tchill13]

Espeonage i thought pretty highly of you. I shoved a very controversial opinion on how to play the game down some peoples throats to get a few mid game lynches through. I did this pretty relentlessly and i didn't even necessarily 100 percent agree with the side i was pushing but i had an agenda as scum and it benefited me the most to push that side of the argument. Honestly i dont judge anybody on play if their play is scum driven. You do what you have to do to win plain and simple. so i hope you can see that perspective of it and agree to stay in the game. I even said in the scum thread i would probably enjoy playing with You and Unabombah specifically as town because yall made valid points but were at the mercy of the rest of the player list. Now obviously it's not a given we are the same alignment but i'd appreciate you taking the time to figure that out.

NM just has a play style i don't necessarily agree with. it's fine though I can be civil. I'm not the type that just looks to make enemies out of people.

i'll catch up on pages 11-20 tomorrow. Hopefully the whole game by the end of the night.

[Tchill13]

paradox voted wilky, thor and almost50 and was NK'd. now the odds of this game specifically suggest that scum probably is in a 1/2 group. i think its like 45 percent-ish. so i don't wee shy we shouldnt pick from that pool for a day 2 lynch but i haven't seen much from almost50 and it doesn't "mesh" with my reads as of late. always important to look at why someone may have been NK'd though.

[Tchill13]

vote: tchill

Hard policy or I replace out.

What's wrong with tchill?

Ignorant and petulant to the point of ruining a game. He's not the worst from the game which is why id actually rather try and push through a policy rather than just replace out. For lickquick I wouldn't even waste the words.

but i mean this just goes to show i was trying to manipulate a separate, larger group of players if he can immediately name a "worse" player from his own alignment. Espeonage didn't have much help the game i played with him. Town lost more so than scum won that game. Which comes down to how the majority of town decided to play. Which in this case was the players i was "selling" my pitch to.

thats the last of my explanation though. If you want to replace out after all of that still then go ahead i understand. I'm obviously gonna disagree with a policy lynch on myself. A policy lynch on a slot thats already been kinda scummy enough to actually build a case on but i guess isn't scummy enough to lynch yet unless its policy.

[Tchill13]

Last scum LaserGuy or Espe because I forgot their posts or Thor because I haven't read any of his posts

Because you forgot their post? These are probably the most towny players.

I agree with the suspicion of wilky but can you explain why he's suspicious to you?

[Tchill13]

Not sure about Korina's little meltdown here and wether it is genuine or not. People seem to be leaving the wagon for it though which begs the question if a meltdown is all it takes to dispel the wagon on you how easy is this game going to be for scum...

The thing with Korina's reaction that's bothering me is that (excluding playing role-madness only) the most common role someone can roll is VT and by a large majority aswell and korina will know that so why get worked up when you roll the most common role most of the time.

While it is a concern all you have to do is pitch a fit and you're not gonna get lynched you seem pretty agitated the korina wagon probably won't go through. Then you go out of your way to highlight how easy it'll be for scum to win.

I'm getting some major scum vibes from this slot.

[Tchill13]

Calling the slot you are replacing scummy used to be one of the highest success rate wikitells but they redux'd the wikitells portal so I can't pull it up. It was named after someone though but I can't for the life of me remember who.

I believe the mentality was that people who replace a scum slot feel the need to address the scumminess of the slot rather than just playing and denotes a strong survivalistic mentality and is basically a pressure that town replacements don't feel which is why it almost never happens from town.

I like this a lot. I've never heard of it. Makes sense.

[Tchill13]

You were also a claimed PR from like page 2 that game.

There was a time I was going to shoot you night 1.

Thank you for proving my point that you're utterly bad even if you're town. I really appreciate it.[/quote

Like I said. Can't wait to see why Fanta was lynch lynched over NM, bujabar/almost slot or the korina slot.

Yes I'm stating the play of my predecessor is odd. While not necessarily scummy I believe it's odd enough for scum to have pushed for a lynch day 1. I'm not completely surprised though. As I said earlier scum is gonna want to keep players around that's beneficial to them to set up later lynches. I'm telling you right now somebody who mentioned NM or a korina lynch but voted Fanta is scum.

[Tchill13]

It comes down to mentality.

Scum still don't want to be in the limelight, and they definitely still need to avoid death. Mafia also need to not appear too town dependent on who wolves go after. So people who are preoccupied with appearance would strike me as likely scum, as well as people trying to avoid scrutiny and avoid being in the center of attention, especially if they are a weaker player who are unsure of their ability to argue out of a pinch.

Later on we will have relationals. Day 1 of multiball is always going to be a narrow selection of applicable actions for scum as scum have an easier time of appearing town.

I'm not used to multiball. I'm used to finding scum through lack of scum hunting. So this will be different for me but I'm looking forward to it and things like this help.

[Tchill13]

1st: Tchill liked the Amished tell for a scum hunting tool, yet is continuing to use it. (1 scum point awarded. but not yet enough to justify a vote)

Well I'm viewing korina as a separate player but at the same time can't ignore that her slot is now my slot. If you'll look I haven't defended her at all. I've asked why she wasn't lynched over Fanta day 1. You can lynch me but don't do it because you sorta kinda wanted to lynch korina then policy was yelled at the player who replaced into the slot.

[Tchill13]

Your points are fair but I'm not gonna dispute them.

I'm on pg 17 and I'm fine with an almost50 lynch rn.

[Tchill13]

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

You've never misread me before. What's the matter?

-Pepper

I think wilky and Fanta are probably both scum but Fanta's wagon composition is horrible

Also I asked for your opinion on Thor, not wilky and I.

Probably town, would lynch though

VOTE: Thor

That's scummy as fuck but okay

this is interesting considering fanta flipped town.

@NM how can you justify leaning town on someone but being ok with his lynch?

[Tchill13]

I pretty sure I am scumhunting.

Would you like to tell more lies and scream and cry, and avoid answering questions while complaining that someone isn't scumhunting?

i'll be honest on my catch up i've ignored the wall posts from thor. He seems to be at the center of a lot of attention and is making a lot of "noise" that doesn't seem to really accomplish anything. Comes off as loud scum to me.

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

You read my mind

why even say you are ok with a thor lynch?

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

i'm having trouble understanding why the attention of this slot disappeared.

Bujabar pitched a fit, the wagon dissipated. Almost seems to be very assertive and confident with his reads and i've yet to see someone be suspicious of him.

[Tchill13]

OK.. Mafia team is likely Fanta/Skitter/Korina. WWs are probably wilky/Laser. Game solved.

Actually that a lie I was thinking Fanta/skitter wolves, wilky/laser/Korina mafia due to inexplicable resistance on wilky

Korina paired with Wilky makes more sense to me than paired with Fanta.
I'm not sure why either of you are particularly scumming on Laser.

i can't stand when people guess teams on day 1 lol. Reasons being that day 1 usually results in a town lynch. Like this game even though the odds of hitting scum are almost 50 percent.

[Tchill13]

OK, so where am I being daft?

Do you actually think me disagreeing with his reads is why I got red flags from his readslist? Or are you honestly daft enough to not know that someone's reads being wishy-washy-null on people that are being read very strongly by others, and having reads that make zero sense from a town POV, is scummy?

-Pepper

Here wilky, I'll even quote myself so you don't miss it this time. I know, pretending to scumread someone is so hard, especially when you don't feel like actually reading their posts. Don't worry, I'm sure you'll manage to not claim scum D1 next time around. Don't beat yourself up too much.

-Pepper

Fuck these wagons

Are you getting annoyed that the entirety of my wagon composition is more scum than can be on one team therefore making more likely to be town? I asked you earlier why you're scumreading me this time around, as you've never been wrong before and I'm honestly intrigued. Is it because I'm hydra'ing?

-Pepper

im not a fan of condescending tones. Fanta also began to muck up the thread and showed a terrible attitude. I'm starting to see why he was lynched... That being said there were still better options.

[Tchill13]

Final Votecount

(7 LYNCHED)

Dr Fanta - voted by: wilky, Beefster, LaserGuy, Thor665, Almost50, TheGoldenParadox, Not_Mafia.

(4)

Thor665 - voted by: Montosh, Korina, Dr Fanta, skitter30.

(1)

Almost50 - voted by: Espeonage.

Dr Fanta has been lynched!

wilky, thor, almost, NM is my lynch pool. They're ALL on this.

IF almost flips anything other than town espeonage may not be town.

[Tchill13]

lol

VOTE: Dr Fanta

Should have been wilky

[Tchill13]

Paradox is a weird one there's not really anyone it implicates or points in a direction too.

This is wolf

I wouldn't be caught dead using wolf as a general term for scum

wilky killed TGP hunting for mafia, now he's deflecting

It seems way more likely that they killed paradox because he didn't give off much in terms of associations, as wilky and A50 alluded to.

What I don't much like is the lurky and sheeping quality that exists in Beefster/Laserguy, and wilky to a lesser extent, not to mention this:

Votecount 1.9

(3)

Dr Fanta - voted by: wilky, Beefster, LaserGuy.

(3)

Almost50 - voted by: Espeonage, TheGoldenParadox, skitter30.

(3)

wilky - voted by: Dr Fanta, Not_Mafia, Korina.

(2)

skitter30 - voted by: Thor665, Almost50.

(1)

Thor665 - voted by: Montosh.

With 12 players alive, 7 votes are needed for a majority. Only 6 votes are needed for a no lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-03-01 17:30:00)

That that pairing was the basis for the Fanta wagon.

But Fanta actually went after wilky for no reason, other than the fact that he was high up on skitter's readlist and they didn't like the readlist, which seems totally bonkers to me. Wilky had some reason to vote for them.

LaserGuy and Beefster's votes were less reasonable. LaserGuy mostly voted to pressure people into consolidating votes onto wagons near deadlines, which rarely ends well for town. Beefster was just blatantly sheeping. I'd put money on scum there.

VOTE: LaserGuy

i was pretty worried about laser and beef being on the fanta wagon. Glad to see im not the only one.

[Tchill13]

What? Them being on that wagon makes me see them less as town. They're not in must lynch territory like the other 4 are yet.

[Tchill13]

I'm however not sold on wilky not just being petulent and bad. Bc thats p much what Fanta was.

agreed 110 percent.

especially after NM hops on wilky aftfer the "lol hammer"

ik i said wilky was in my lynch pool but his wagon grew disgustingly fast at the beginning of day 2. So i may have to rethink that one.

[Tchill13]

ok im caught up. i retract my statement about espeonage being scum if almost flips scum because he opened the day back on almost.

[Tchill13]

But that's literally just listing everyone on the wagon at that point, so - yeah, duh, town lynch, lynch off the wagon.
The core logic makes perfect sense.

Pegging out your top four and ruling out two *also* makes sense.

But then acting happy someone else is calling out your two rule outs?
That doesn't make sense.
You ruled them out for a reason.
You shouldn't be happy they are getting pushed on unless your ruleout was daft.

i ruled them out because they were my only two town reads on the wagon. they also had the most "silent" votes on the wagon. From what i had seen i wouldn't expect laser to be on the fanta wagon through the lynch when there were better lynch options. Beef made a few posts that made sense but he's doing an awful good job of being TR'd.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Not mafia

will vote A50 also but NM's play of lynching fanta then voting wilky makes a lot of since if he's scum that doesn't get a NK.

I feel good about espeonage being town with montosh. Im back and forth on wilky and i lean town on Laser.

Beef is a hard null with skitter and thor (skitter and thor seemed like a lot of noise and walls i didn't want to pick through.)

I'd say A50, NM, Korina should have been lynched day 1 before Fanta in that order.

I voted NM over A50 here because of the beginning of day 2. NM hops right back on Wilky after hammering fanta and the wilky wagon grows blindingly fast.

[Tchill13]

It'd be like me saying "Awfully happy to lynch Skitter or Tchill today from the pool of Skitter, TChill, Almost50.
Ad then later quoting someone going "Almost50 is soooo scum' and me posting 'yeah, super happy Almost50 is getting attention as a scumspect, he deserves that!'

It
makes
no
sense.

i don't disagree with you. Am i supposed to 100 percent explain my every detailed though on catch up? The reason i didn't is because i didn't want to explain every little thing. I agree it looks alarming and I'd question it too but i think it looks weird because of the way i went about my catch up. Had i been playing in real time I think it wouldn't look as bad.

Laser seems to be playing a game that makes sense so far so i was alarmed he didn't give anymore attention to NM over Fanta. He actually seems to defend NM at the end of day 1/ start of day 2. So that cought my eye.

then beef has carefully piscked his spots on what to comment on and i honestly forgot he voted fanta.

[Tchill13]

seems like half the player list has pointed a finger at NM by this time but hasn't laid a vote there. That's where i'd like to start.

[Tchill13]

Final Votecount

(7 LYNCHED)

Dr Fanta - voted by: wilky, Beefster, LaserGuy, Thor665, Almost50, TheGoldenParadox, Not_Mafia.

(4)

Thor665 - voted by: Montosh, Korina, Dr Fanta, skitter30.

(1)

Almost50 - voted by: Espeonage.

Dr Fanta has been lynched!

wilky, thor, almost, NM is my lynch pool. They're ALL on this.

IF almost flips anything other than town espeonage may not be town.

But that's literally just listing everyone on the wagon at that point, so - yeah, duh, town lynch, lynch off the wagon.
The core logic makes perfect sense.

Pegging out your top four and ruling out two *also* makes sense.

But then acting happy someone else is calling out your two rule outs?
That doesn't make sense.
You ruled them out for a reason.
You shouldn't be happy they are getting pushed on unless your ruleout was daft.

ok on complete catch up so we are clear...

i'm actually more comfortable clearing wilky on the lynching wagon compared to beef or laser.

NM, A50, thor would be the ones i want lynched from the lynching wagon in that order.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Beefster

It's a good policy lynch, and, hey, maybe a wolf or scum to boot.

VOTE: Thor665
No protown player does this in RVS. Semi-serious vote.

VOTE: Paradox

Trying to make something out of nothing

VOTE: Wilky
I understand it's supposed to be a joke, but chainsaw defensing someone the third post of the game? I could see you as scum not wanting to be on a mislynch wagon that doesn't go anywhere and trying to get onto who you know is a very mislynchable player, then claim that you started it as a joke and it shouldn't have be taken seriously when suspicion is on you.

So, my entire thing about that, is that I honestly have never seen town trying to set up arguments where they know the exact outcome. It seems like something mafia/wolf would do.

How would I know what the outcome would be?
You're, like Skitter, accussing me of being a mindreader/master manipulator with zero evidence to support said claim, and then acting like it's a valid call.

@Korina - I knew the outcome would be you missing the question, but let's go with this a second time.

@Korina - third time's the charm?

You said so yourself.

Also, I hardclaim Citizen rn. I'm a fucking citizen once again, and literally out of half the rolelist being non-citizen roles, I get citizen again. I really don't care if I'm ML'd d1, happens all the time, and idgaf tbh.

This doesn't look like real frustration. Geniune frustration looks towny. This seems more "I'm a VT. Screw this" in the most exaggerated way possible.

This little bit looks pretty genuine and also makes me think it's pretty clear that if Thor flips red, then BuJaber is in the clear.

Scratch this, still trying to get into the multiball mindset. Fml.

@Pepper
How would this change your read on BuJaber/Almost50?
Are you thinking you'd be left with no read or a townlean/read
Or could it perhaps be a MvW?

I don't exactly want to cause a head v head argument but I'm curious for the sake of the game what your thoughts are on this potential flip
- Fanta

Can you chat in your PTs about this and not clog up the thread thanks

Right, so i've just iso'd Laserguy and his iso does not read as active lurker at all so for now

VOTE: Dr Fanta

I agree. I'll sheep this.

VOTE: Dr Fanta

The sheeping here seems E X T R E M E L Y oppurtunistic. I'm FoSing Beefster for this.


VOTE: Almost50
This is the most fake and horrible slot out there.

My lynch pool is like this: A50 > Wilky > Beefster.
If A50 is town, Esp is almost def scum. If A50's scum, Espeonage is almost def town. (Yes, I know we're in multiball).

thor, wilky and A50 were all on the lynching wagon and were all voted by Paradox.

Seeing how i believe wilky is town because of the beginning of day 2 im MORE confident thor and A50 are scum.

I guess wilky could be scum/WW but he isn't the same alignment as NM unless they're both town and i don't believe that to be the case.

[Tchill13]

policy lynching isnt a good idea but lynching players you know are hard to sort and will have a spot in your lynch pool for most of the game is a good idea. Most people seemed to agree he was in the lynch pool yet wouldn't vote...

[Tchill13]

im not even meta'ing the guy. if his name wasn't NM it wouldn't matter. Im judging him off play alone here.

[Tchill13]

But his name is NM and it does matter. If it were most anyone else I'd be pushing that lynch. But the meta is relevant.

i disagree.

[Tchill13]

[quote="In post 744, Montosh"]But his name is NM and it does matter. If it were most anyone else I'd be pushing that lynch. But the meta is relevant.[

see... this is what scum says until they decide he should be lynched. until then theyll find a reason not to lynch him. thats considering he's town. If he's scum then he knows he can get thrugh the whole game coasting. Both are bad scenarios for town.

[Tchill13]

i'll let other people interact with me before voting after the catch up.

[Tchill13]

First of all I'm more sure NM is scum compared to beef or A50.

It's a tie rn the number of scum and the number of townies right? So if we don't lynch scum today scum get to choose who's lynched from here on out. We need to lynch definite scum. We need to lynch NM.

With more scum in the game there's more players that will be willing to say "NM may be town but I'm not going to vote him because of meta" if they're his partner. They have a larger control of the game which means there's no reason to bus. They just need a decent reason not to vote him and... Meta seems to be the case.

Without using meta tell me why what beef or A50 has done makes them scummier than NM.

[Tchill13]

That's what scum do day 1.

Sit on a lynch. It doesn't go through. Hop on another lynch to push it through...

Then sit back on their day 1 lynch.

Had NM been so sure wilky was scum he wouldn't have settled so quickly for Fanta.

[Tchill13]

Least resistance? I'm saying no matter the flip it helps town in the long run but I'm sure you're scum because of end of day 1 start of day 2 play.

You Opened up with sentence structure lol.

[Tchill13]

Usually I'm keen on having a direction to go no matter the flip. This games a little different seeing how from even if you flip scum we'll still have a 50/50 shot at hitting scum the next day phase more than likely. Where as if you flip town it'll be even bigger. Idk who the team could be but I never speculate on the team until at least one scum flips.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: almost50

L-1

[Tchill13]

Yeah guys yall really surprised?

[Tchill13]

He hammered on mafia though?

[Tchill13]

I'm not sure that wilky is scum.

Why do you refuse to sort anyone else in a game with much more mafia members?

[Tchill13]

Who said I'm refusing to sort everyone else?

your votes say it.

[Tchill13]

So should we give you credit for hammering the goon then?

[Tchill13]

VOTE: wilky

[Tchill13]

If I was right about laser and bujabar I doubt I was 3/3 on reads.

I'm assuming I was wrong about you being scum.

[Tchill13]

3/3 on reads during my catch up.

I said laser was town. You and bujabar was scum.

I was right about laser and bujabar but I doubt I got all 3 reads right which would mean I know believe you're town.

Yes it is multi ball and I don't have any experience differentiating fictional motivation and how to hunt with that in mind.

[Tchill13]

What's funny is I would only argue beef in that whole group. I wouldn't even argue it that hard tbh.

[Tchill13]

I thought nm was scum. He did something that made me question that and I'm working on being able to reevaluate my reads.

[Tchill13]

ebwop: disagrees with NM's list*

I actually agreed with it?

[Tchill13]

Good deal.

[Tchill13]

So... anyone gonna explain why we're just blindly sheeping NM's vote, which I will remind you, is on a slot that he has been tunnelling since close to RVS?

Scum caught for the wrong reasons?

[Tchill13]

well if you're so sure why not lynch NM?

I feel like lol hammering benefits scum more so than wolves seeing how lynching is the only way to kill for scum. Then again he hammered on scum which could very well make him a wolf.

[Tchill13]

You were very persuasive.

I don't see why I needed to wait longer when I'd already changed my mind. I saw the arguments, went through his ISO, considered the mechanics of who I thought it could be, and though "Yeah I guess this makes the most sense".

Given the rationale involved, I see very little wilky could have done to change anything, and so decided to end the day.

I think you're trying very hard to make a big deal about it. It's telling.

"you were very persuasive". Not taking too much blame for the hammer I see?

[Tchill13]

Good reads NM.

[Tchill13]

I'm down for montosh.

[Tchill13]

IF he's the last WW.

[Tchill13]

NM pushed wilky the whole time lol.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: beefster

[Tchill13]

Day 2 I was dead set on an NM lynch. He's lynched mafia and ww since.

I think you're the WW montosh and you're fighting back. There's no reason for nm to bus wilky like that though. That's a bad thought process.

[Tchill13]

Whoever the last WW is did make a terrible night 3 kill.

[Tchill13]

Idk i was suspicious of you on catch up and I'm not sure how you're linked to skitter.

I'm willing to let NM ride a couple days out if he bussed his partner straight from rvs.

I'm fine with a beef lynch.

[Tchill13]

More votes on Montosh.

pretty funny how you're the only other wagon and you're pushing that.

[Tchill13]

I think itcle's ar that beef or montosh is scum due to how they're both handling it

[Tchill13]

So we can't risk lynching a townie which is why we're against Thor?

I think we should lynch beef or montosh today for sure. I doubt either are town. I think one is ww and one is scum. Mostly because of yalls reads though I'm not sure how to determine a WW from a scum. I do think the fact beef pushed montosh, the only other wagon, as beef was getting pushed was pretty telling tough. I think we should lynch beef.

[Tchill13]

Hey NM. I'm town. Wolf shouldn't kill me.

[Tchill13]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

[Tchill13]

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

[Tchill13]

I'm trying hard to be able to reevaluate reads based on actions but I don't understand why I should be the kill under any circumstances.

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

[Tchill13]

I agree.

[Tchill13]

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

[Tchill13]

Bussing requires context. People don't usually go out of their way to bus.

Well if you wanted to be a good player then that's exactly why you'd bus out of context

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

1. I'm assuming people are also somewhat on the same page as me here and calling beef ww over mafia.
2. The not paying attention to simple details is the exact behaviour that led to my lynch as miller, which was a wagon spearheaded by chill.

However, Beef never bussed wilky if ww, which is still a touch above. But I could lynch either because it's a fucking coinflip.

You need to stop worrying about that other game. I was SCUM. You were TOWN. We were DIFFERENT alignments with DIFFERENT win conditions.

[Tchill13]

If it came down to beef or montosh I think montosh is the way to go.

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

[Tchill13]

No i think montosh is ww and beef is scum.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: beef

[Tchill13]

OK. serious reread of the last 5-10 pages tomorrow.

[Tchill13]

Ok. Lynching town is really fucking bad. Leaves an incredibly slim chance of a win.

So step 1. Don't lynch town. Do whatever it takes to avoid a mislynch.

Now aside from maths I can end here because the gap between beef and chill is small in the ww stakes. And you are miles ahead on the mafia flip likelihood.

But my logic is that a mafia flip helps ww sort out last scum, so looking at that practically. You dead, ww shoots someone. By then the mafia is p much confirmed even if town dies bc it takes out from the small pool. And then we have a semi solved game again choosing between the ww candidates but now knowing who mafia is.

Look lynching for ww ends in the same coin flip as far as I read. But with much less chance of a town lynch today.

And honestly this is just for the benefit of the other players that want to see the response because now people might vote you.

ok. starting reread from here. Why is it beef and tchill instead of beef and montosh for the ww?

[Tchill13]

The main thing stopping me scumreading Tchill is that I can't place with a mafia partner and I don't think he's wolf

as of rn i think montosh and thor are the mafia and beef is the ww.

[Tchill13]

Lemme digest, but I thought skitter or I were dying night 1 so idk about the kill spec stuff. Possibly trying to distance from the kill.

Also I think Thor WW kills skitter anyway to try and avoid the lynch. But also not overly likely, Thor is better shot of being Mafia at this point.

I don't see Montosh ww either because I think ww's are on A50 lynch wagon. So I think that Beef is the best bet for ww folowed by TChill. Thor/Montosh/NM is my mafia pool in that order.

once again. thor montosh scum. beef ww.

[Tchill13]

I think itcle's ar that beef or montosh is scum due to how they're both handling it

I don't. Can you explain at least a little? Rather than just making the assertion.

Beef seems a lot more focused on survival than gamesolving

Right but that's a general scumtell. Why mafia specifically?

i apologize im not used to playing with 2 different factions and should be more careful with wording. I should have said beef or montosh is WW. Both are trying to survive.

[Tchill13]

@thor I don't think Esp's logic post is particularly scummy, it's easy enough to get lost while just considering future scenarios in your head. I think that he tried to justify it with a dumb excuse like "I forgot mafia can kill" is somewhat scummy. Just sorta reinforces my tchill/Esp mafia grouping.

this seems like a stretch. not sure why Tchill/ espe could be a scum team. Seems like your picking from a pool via PoE. That PoE being Thor is your partner.

[Tchill13]

@thor I don't think Esp's logic post is particularly scummy, it's easy enough to get lost while just considering future scenarios in your head. I think that he tried to justify it with a dumb excuse like "I forgot mafia can kill" is somewhat scummy. Just sorta reinforces my tchill/Esp mafia grouping.

also who's the ww? would it be beef? making NM, you and thor town? lol

[Tchill13]

N_M seems like such an unlikely wolf to me though, if that was a bus it did a brilliant job distancing him. That feels like he legit wanted that flip.

no way NM is ww. He's more likely to be scum than ww due to his 1st lolhammer. I think NM is town though.

[Tchill13]

vote: tchill

Hard policy or I replace out.

Damn it. Going through the thread and found this. Given that the Korina/tchill slot was already on a lot of people's lynch lists, this seems like something that reasonably could have caused a lynch, were it not for the A50 wagon. I don't see this as something Esp does to his partner. That kinda screws with my tchill/Esp mafia theory.

N_M seems like such an unlikely wolf to me though, if that was a bus it did a brilliant job distancing him. That feels like he legit wanted that flip.

I sorta agree, but I'm having a hard time reconciling that with his terrible ideas today.

OK NM you don't have to answer the Esp/Tchill question.

I do believe it shows your pulling at straws though.

[Tchill13]

montosh not nm

[Tchill13]

I'm not sure that wilky is scum.

Why do you refuse to sort anyone else in a game with much more mafia members?

In response to N_M's Day 3 vote on wilky right off the bat.

VOTE: wilky

If I was right about laser and bujabar I doubt I was 3/3 on reads.

I'm assuming I was wrong about you being scum.

And then votes wilky only a few posts later, with the pretty terrible reasoning that N_M is town because he can't possibly be 3/3 on reads, and so he should sheep N_M.

I see

wilky/beefster/skitter/Montosh

What's funny is I would only argue beef in that whole group. I wouldn't even argue it that hard tbh.

Argues that only beef is scummy from this grouping, despite the fact that he is currently voting wilky, a member of that group.

I recall that I tried to get you to explain your reasoning yesterday, but you weren't all that specific. Why the turn on wilky?

ok this is legitimate reasoning to assume im the other ww. The reason i sheeped NM is because i dont think im a good enough player to be 3/3 so by default NM would be town. Then i sheeped NM specifically because if he was wrong about wilky then he'd be lynched next day phase and i wanted to speed that process up.

I argued beef maybe town in THAT moment, but even then i wouldn't argue it that much. Which means i phrased it in a hard way to read. apologies.

[Tchill13]

I don't think Beef is flipping town anyway, I just can't see a mafia configuration in Espe/Thor/Montosh. Maybe Espe Montosh I guess

its thor, montosh.

[Tchill13]

Happy scumday

also thanks for this. Much appreciated.

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure what i was smoking here. I seem to have forgotten i believed Beef was ww NOT scum. So this unvote and reason is pretty invalid. I now understand why this caused a lot of confusion and am terribly sorry. Once again not used to phrasing "the bad guys" by two different terms. Honest mistake here.

[Tchill13]

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

this is the point where im gonna man up and admit im guilty of "not paying attention" like espe accused me of. apparently I lost my damn mind lol. Just plain ignorance and not paying attention here. I belive this was fueled by my earlier post of believing Beef wasn't a "bad guy". So this should be completely ignored.

[Tchill13]

Also Thor, sell me on this Montosh turnaround because I don't see it.

The activity under the pressure at the start of the day feels reminisce of BuJ, and as the pressure dissipates, the play quality goes up. Does that not count as scum points instead of the opposite?

the montosh turn around is because thor and montosh are scum.

[Tchill13]

I was arguing that only beef could be town from that whole group. As in I agreed with the rest of his scum reads but would argue beef being scum.

So you were scumreading wilky, skitter and myself at that point, and soft scumreading beef?

I pretty much just said screw it and voted wilky to help sort NM. NM was right so now I believe NM is town. NM I shouldn't be killed by the wolf.

Yet I am the wolf for essentially the same actions?

I was scum reading skitter and you. I just said wilky was scum to go through with it to get a better read on NM after Wilky's flip.

You are not the ww. You are scum.

[Tchill13]

Also, A50 tunneled me pretty hard on D2, so that would imply that I'm not mafia. I recognize that doesn't clear me from wolf, but I don't care.

Now see that's a good point.

UNVOTE:

Why the hell hasn't espionage been talked about too much?

1. I'm assuming people are also somewhat on the same page as me here and calling beef ww over mafia.
2. The not paying attention to simple details is the exact behaviour that led to my lynch as miller, which was a wagon spearheaded by chill.

However, Beef never bussed wilky if ww, which is still a touch above. But I could lynch either because it's a fucking coinflip.

no im not paying attention to details here but last time i was scum with a different wincon. That was fueled by a different wincon no by lack of attention.

This time im town just being stupid and i really, honestly apologize after asking you to stay.

[Tchill13]

If it came down to beef or montosh I think montosh is the way to go.

Effort shouldn't be his saving grace.

this is talking about which is scum. It's irrelevant. Beef is ww and montosh is scum.

[Tchill13]

No i think montosh is ww and beef is scum.

vote: chill

I'd vote my ass too. I'm dumb as shit. So sorry for the blatant ignorance. Beef is ww and montosh is scum.

Damn i let this one get away from me. I can't apologize enough.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: Tchill

I need to finish this game. I'm in too many right now.

this is just disgusting. Beef is the WW.

[Tchill13]

It's really Tchill that's causing the slog.
Makes me really confident he's scum, but the question is if the wolf read is right or not.
That he appears to have zero supporters feels...pretty good on that score, though I suppose if I was Maf and my buddy was going down in flames I'd at least distance or something.

alright. So I can't apologize enough. I let this one get away from me for a bit. Power went out last night due to rough weather. I play frequently from my phone for quick check ins and apparently at some point i completely forgot about how many remaining mafia there were plus the fact there was a ww. I tried to make my catch up with ACTUAL COMPLETE thoughts.

SO, SO sorry. Town is in a bad spot if we mislynch and if im mislynched the loss is on me. I'm trying to make up for it best as possible.

Beef is wolf for survivalism. Montosh is scum due to vote history. Thor is scum because i believe NM and Espeonage are town.

SO, SO sorry once again.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: wilky

Read through his ISO, yeah definitely went after low-hanging fruit. I'll give this one a go.

slid onto this wagon at the end.

He also was off the first two lynch wagons and voted thor day 1. If there ever was a time for mafia to distance it was day 1.

[Tchill13]

if you iso wilky there's minimal mention of beef and when he does mention him 2/3 times its to agree with him.

[Tchill13]

VOTE: montosh

if we lynch scum and beef kills town then we're in the same boat we are now right?

If we lynch scum and beef kills scum we lynch beef.

If we lynch WW then we can just lynch mafia the days after i guess.

idc if we lynch scum or ww tbh. I might be missing something of course.

[Tchill13]

Sorry about the terrible play town. Ggs everyone.

[Tchill13]

Well that's impressive.