[11:54] FakeGod: were you guys considering just heading down to next level without chasing Lociferasu?
[11:54] FakeGod: just curious
[11:55] Who: No
[11:55] Who: Or well, I wasn't, and nobody was talking about it
[11:55] FakeGod: it WAS an option
[11:55] FakeGod: I hope at least that was clear
[11:56] Who: We're murderhobos. You expect us to let someone continue to exist after we've fought them and they got away?
[11:57] FakeGod: I suppose, but Elleran for example pretty much never fights encounters he deems unnecessary
[11:57] Who: Elleran is not a murderhobo.
[11:58] Who: Well, I didn't want to fight GY1
[11:58] Who: But that was different
[11:59] GuyInFreezer: We are all murderhobos
[11:59] GuyInFreezer: One person wanting to avoid the fight wont change the inevitable next action
[11:59] Who: GY1 was not only unnecessary we were fighting a friendly person
[12:00] GuyInFreezer: Dunno she hated Selene and wanted her dead
[12:00] Telephone Cat: Didn't Lociferasu come after them?
[12:00] Who: (Or that was how I viewed the situation at the time)
[12:00] Who: Also, I assumed we would just have to fight Lociferasu later
[12:00] FakeGod: Lociferasu fled back into his inner sancteum, but the PCs chased him
[12:01] Telephone Cat: Was there a different direction? I thought that was just the way forward.
[12:01] Who: Would he have attacked us later if we hadn't killed him?
[12:01] Who: Yeah there were stairs
[12:01] FakeGod: stairs going to next level
[12:01] FakeGod: in the central water room
[12:01] Telephone Cat: The only stairs I remember were the ones into the water.
[12:02] FakeGod: I can't tell you whether he'd have attacked if you haven't killed him, although it's prob pretty likely
[12:02] Telephone Cat: I didn't realize it was optional, but, like, he did attack the PCs, and he also seems to have been responsible for raising Mirajen's party as death knights, so.
[12:03] Who: Letting him live would have violated the unwritten rules of adventuring
[12:03] FakeGod: it's pretty clear he's not a nice guy
[12:03] Telephone Cat: Did he actually speak again after you could see him and connect his voice to the one speaking with the woman?
[12:03] FakeGod: but it's also fairly likely that the encounter would be challenging
[12:04] FakeGod: yes I confirmed that it was the same voice
[12:04] Telephone Cat: I can't remember what he said.
[12:04] Who: Spellcasting I think
[12:04] Telephone Cat: Oh, okay.
[12:05] Who: Oh yeah, is it possible to use ghost sound to mimic the woman's voice?
[12:05] FakeGod: how good is your disguise?
[12:05] Who: Shit, but my bluff is great
[12:06] Telephone Cat: This is for seeing if Mirajen can identify it, not for actually tricking anyone.
[12:06] FakeGod: do you have major image
[12:06] Who: No
[12:06] FakeGod: ghost sound is too trashy
[12:06] Who: I figured that that was likely, just checking
[12:07] FakeGod: your 240p definition tv is too grainy for Mirajen's eyes
[12:07] Telephone Cat: She's from a medieval fantasy world, she should lower her standards!
[12:07] FakeGod: Mirajen never abandons her standards, only her comrades
[12:08] Telephone Cat: She did what she had to do, letting Allea die would have been a TPK anyway.
[12:08] GuyInFreezer: Did she take a penalty
[12:08] Who: Ether, she's probably used to something like programmed image or something
[12:08] GuyInFreezer: Like knight code violation
[12:09] FakeGod: if she actually abandoned her teammates and shit for selfish reasons then yeah she broke the code
[12:09] FakeGod: big time
[12:09] Telephone Cat: She even saved a random 14 year old while she was at it. She did her best.
[12:09] Who: She needed to do it though
[12:09] Who: She needed to survive to come find us
[12:11] Telephone Cat: All of the repeated "aura of sadness" talk makes me half-want to stick the amulet on Karouac's dead-reanimated-rekilled corpse, but rationally this probably would not do anything.
[12:11] Who: Undead turn to dust upon death
[12:11] Telephone Cat: Oh.
[12:11] FakeGod: (but maybe you should have tried it on his still animated corpse)
[12:11] Telephone Cat: I brought it up!
[12:12] Telephone Cat: But it did seem silly, Caligri said it couldn't bring back the dead.
[12:12] Telephone Cat: Shit. Would it have worked?
[12:12] Who: The other silly thing was that it would have taken a day
[12:12] Telephone Cat: Yeah, that too.
[12:12] FakeGod: I cannot confirm or deny until Act 6 ends
[12:12] FakeGod: he's also kinda STRONG; that encounter is very tough and you guys should have lost multiple characters on avg
[12:13] Telephone Cat: And you can't just stick his struggling angry sadcorpse in a bag of holding, there's the dimensional lock...
[12:13] Telephone Cat: Also I think he was technically a death knight and had FoM?
[12:13] FakeGod: yes and yes
[12:14] Who: Is it even possible to put an amulet on him then?
[12:14] FakeGod: I'd say it's nigh impossible
[12:14] Telephone Cat: I guess you could ask him nicely if he'd like to put it on?
[12:14] Telephone Cat: Maybe Command undead and hope for a natural 2...
[12:14] FakeGod: he actually continues to attack Mirajen even after a failed save vs Command Undead
[12:32] Telephone Cat: Hmm...the more I think about it, Allea's situation is weird. The slaves in that mine were held there for a while to take on that whole waterbreathing thing, right?
[12:33] Telephone Cat: And the kuotoa had already sacrificed a few other girls in that Act 2 ritual before the PCs jumped in.
[12:35] FakeGod: that is all correct
[12:36] GuyInFreezer: Tin foil: Allea is already corrupted
[12:36] Who: Despite the fact that circumstances should place her in Dr. K tier of towniness, she's super untrustworthy
[12:37] Who: She goes into Dr. Benedict tier of towniness
[12:38] Who: All of its previous occupants have been red herrings
[12:38] Telephone Cat: Someone should talk to her.
[12:38] Telephone Cat: Someone with a high sense motive.
[12:40] Telephone Cat: See how she feels about going back, see how she feels about lord Dagon.
[12:40] GuyInFreezer: Sense motive whats that
[12:40] Who: Imogen has highest
[12:40] Telephone Cat: It's the thing that Visage kept foiling for us even though I rolled fucking 27s.
[12:40] Who: I have high bluff though
[12:41] GuyInFreezer: I dont think i have any highest social skills
[12:41] Who: Diplo?
[12:41] GuyInFreezer: Oh that
[12:42] FakeGod: well let me know if you guys want to talk to Allea
[12:46] Who: We need a plan first
[...]
[12:49] Telephone Cat: Would Detect Evil see if Allea's tainted? I remember it worked that way for Raine under the sarcophagus's influence...
[12:49] Who: It's way overpriced
[12:49] GuyInFreezer: It wont work in the prison I think
[12:50] GuyInFreezer: Too much evil in area etc
[12:52] Who: I think it will
[12:52] Who: For interrogating Allea we need a reason why we're interrogating her without actually making it look like an interrogation
[12:52] Who: What do we want to know first
[12:52] Telephone Cat: She's been through a lot. Is she okay? Ask her what Brackendeep's like, just try to be her friend.
[12:53] Telephone Cat: There was downtime between Act 5 and 6, presumably that was her first time actually being on the surface world, even if she didn't see much of it except a small ruined town...
[12:55] FakeGod: "Wow. Surface world is basically just bunch of woods and burned down buildings."
[12:55] FakeGod: "0/10, would not recommend."
[12:56] Who: I would not expect the friendship angle to work
[12:56] Who: Like
[12:57] Who: She'd act the same whether or not she's evil
[...]
[13:01] Who: If she's evil, what would she probably want?
[13:04] Telephone Cat: If she's evil, she'd be in the same boat as the slaves from Act 2 and the cultists from Act 3. Except...the amulet does supposedly fix curses. It's just...I don't know, I think the kuotoa were legitimately planning to sacrifice her, but it's weird that they set that whole thing up and that it took so long that she developed waterbreathing? The situation is weird.
[13:04] Telephone Cat: ...Also just from a story perspective I kind of want to see Einar try to be her friend.
[13:05] Who: That could work
[13:05] Who: Good cop bad cop
[13:08] RadiantCowbells: Einar would definitely talk to Allea if there was some sort of time where it was a good idea
[13:10] Who: Interrogating her about Mirajen
[13:10] Who: That is how we do it
[13:11] lilith2013: uhhh am i going to be doing the interrogating
[13:11] Who: Possibly
[13:11] lilith2013: or can i stand in the background brandishing my dagger
[13:12] Who: It might be that just you're standing in the background and seeing whether or not she's telling the truth
[13:12] Telephone Cat: Um...yeah, don't overtly threaten her.
[13:12] Telephone Cat: You're taking a breather for Who to prepare Ghost Lantern anyway, right?
[13:13] Who: We just spent like an hour searching
[13:13] Telephone Cat: Right, that too.
[13:13] RadiantCowbells: And Einar sucks at searching and is easily distracted so
[13:14] Who: I feel like there's a strong risk you'll just annoy her
[13:14] Telephone Cat: It doesn't need to be intended as an interrogation on Einar's part, I assume he's not as paranoid as I am.
[13:15] FakeGod: Lilith you should deathattack her (paralysis vers.) and show her that you have her life in your hands
[13:15] RadiantCowbells: Or just kill her and sacrifice her to dagon and go full LLD dark side
[13:16] Telephone Cat: Once I officially take over as the archon, this is the first thing I am going to do.
[13:19] lilith2013: please, i'm not that evil
[13:19] lilith2013: i may be a serial killer but i prefer to be an unpossessed serial killer
[13:20] Who: I have no problem with that as an interrogation technique other than the fact that it oesn't seem likely to work
[13:20] Who: I think our best option is to ask her about Mirajen
[13:20] Who: And pretened we're suspicious of her
[13:21] Who: Uh, of Mirajen
[13:21] FakeGod: I'm quite amused at the moment, and you guys will see why I am quite amused when I explain but I can't explain without spoilering slightly and it's annoying
[13:22] Who: Also now that I think about the explanation for the lie, it's not really that much of a lie
[13:22] Who: Yes, she had to get through and rescue Allea
[13:22] Telephone Cat: I live to amuse. x_x
[13:22] Who: But she also needed the strength to rescue Allea
[13:23] Who: Dammit this would have been more convenient if we'd interrogated Hector before he died
[13:24] Telephone Cat: I dunno, I think Mirajen's town.
[13:24] Who: She's an L8 knight, a support character
[13:24] Who: She doesn't solo things
[13:24] Telephone Cat: She bravely runs away while other knights hold the bad guys off.
[13:24] lilith2013: also the deathknight thing made it sound like she abandoned them on purpose
[13:25] Who: I think she might be town, might be scum.
[13:25] Telephone Cat: Maybe, but the process of being turned undead kind of twists you to irrationally hate the living, right?
[13:25] Who: I think that Allea is a cultist of Vecna and she and Grimwire will become bffs.
[13:26] Who: And by "Become bffs", I mean "I'll murder her and take all her secret knowleedge"
[13:26] Who: Because that's what cultists of Vecna do when they meet each other
[13:27] Telephone Cat: This is not a very TN-with-an-archon thing to do!
[13:27] Who: It's not a very TN-with-an-archon to smite evil?
[13:28] Telephone Cat: You don't even have proof that she's evil!
[13:28] Who: This is my long term plan
[13:28] Who: Not short term
[13:29] Who: Part of the plan involves finding out that she is evil
[13:29] Telephone Cat: Like, yes, her situation is weird. But I think it's very unlikely that she was evil before being kidnapped, still not that likely now, and it would have been for reasons beyond her control.
[13:31] Who: I don't think she's Dagon-aligned
[13:32] Who: But Dagon is not the only villain
[13:32] Telephone Cat: Looking back, yeah, it does seem that Mirajen bailed on her own initiative.
[13:36] GuyInFreezer: Or its just a simple "you must go save our lady" cliche
[13:39] Telephone Cat: Hmm?
[13:40] Who: She made a suicidal attempt but got captured instead
[13:41] Who: If she had asked us for help instead of Hector she would have been able to help us
[13:42] Telephone Cat: Oh, yeah.
[13:42] Telephone Cat: To be fair, she didn't know there was a cavalry to call on, you hadn't arrived yet.
[13:43] Who: Okay, she should have gone to the nearest city and found a cavalry
[13:43] Telephone Cat: How's her knowledge of surface world geography? How long would that have taken?
[13:44] Telephone Cat: It wasn't feasible at all.
[13:44] Who: Find a magicmart
[13:44] Who: Buy potions of invis, dimdoor, silence
[13:45] Who: Walk up to Allea and dimdoor out
[13:45] Who: Uh, dimstep not dimdoor
[13:45] RadiantCowbells: Potion of dimdoor?
[13:45] Telephone Cat: Magicmarts are not that easy to find, and again, time constraints!
[13:46] Telephone Cat: When we were in Barrelsford, we couldn't just wander off and find a wand of CLW. That kind of thing makes NPCs, including Allea, die.
[13:46] Who: We were low levelled
[13:49] GuyInFreezer: So how does flanking diagonally with reach weapons again
[13:49] GuyInFreezer: Do i need to be like exactly opposite position or are there some leeways?
[13:49] Who: There are leeways
[13:50] Telephone Cat: Come on. You track your liege to a little surface world village, one where everything is on fire and Migali's set the altars up. You've never even been on this side of the ground in your life, you're totally alone except for a squire who's like 12 years old, Allea is going to die. No, you don't just wander off to explore a world where you don't even know where anything is.
[13:50] GuyInFreezer: Bc if lilith plays assassin and I go daring outlaw sneaking in and double SAing a boss needs to happen
[13:50] Who: See DMG page 308
[13:50] Telephone Cat: There's so much open space up here, there aren't any tunnels, anything could be anywhere!
(Some more information about the corruption effect from staying in the mines in Act 2 too long is
here. Remove Curse working on the slaves would imply that the amulet would clear up Allea, though...)
Another thing maybe worth asking Allea is if she knew who the other girls who were sacrificed were?