In post 25, mastina wrote: In post 23, Mulch wrote:I disagree about pushing hard. That's the last thing mafia in general needs, and let alone mafiascum. You have to understand that every action has an advantage and a disadvantage. Pushing people can ilicit genuine reactions, but it creates a ton of negative things for the game state as well.
Pushing hard probably doesn't meant to me what it means to you then.
Asking questions can be a hard push, if those questions have follow-through and purpose/intent behind them, where they are meant to lead somewhere and are clearly being used to either raise or build up to a point of some kind. Pointing out inconsistencies and explaining your viewpoint can count as a strong push if you put enough time, effort, and posts into showing, "this is what I see; seeing that makes me think this".
The idea isn't to shout "PLAYER IS SCUM" 100 times over and over again, though that can be
part
of an effective hard push. (Part, not all.) The idea is to get a high level of engagement and dialogs started with multiple players--as many as you can handle interacting with. (Preferably all.)
Pushing doesn't have to be pushing scum, either; you can push that a player is town/a mislynch just as much as you can push that a player is scum/who you should be lynching. The theory behind it is that the more you push, the more useful information is generated...provided that key factor of the ability to back up, reassess, and then from the reevaluation, form reads. If the answer to "Is X actually scum like I have said?" "Actually? Yes.", then highlight why with a case; if the answer comes out as 'no', then explain your change/shift in read and push elsewhere if you are satisfied, more or less.
Solid answer actually;
I see what you mean now by pushing.
I just think that the whole heavy thought proess analyzation will only work for some people
Examples:
Whiskeyjack (MU)
Regfan (MS)
These type of people are really good at asking a ton of questions, gathering information, and making a decision
But even these types of people, respect as they are, irk the rest of the game sometimes because
1) Its impossible to know whether questions come from town or scum
2) It can exhaust people trying to explain every little detail (we aren't in a perfect world)
3) In general, this extends the page count
4) It goes contrary to a lot of people's playstyles, especially ones that townhunt or do more intuition. And it can end up badly.
For example, whenever I try to do these hard question playstyle pushing type of things and look for logic/intuition, I get horrible reads.
Case in point: Wrangle.
So I think that if pushing works for you, do it; but I don't really think it belongs in a strategy guide in the sense of "this is what everyone should do."
I also think that pushing, even with questions, does make it harder to be charismatic. Just my two cents.
