[Meta] Newbie Experience (Formerly IC replace rate thread)

[Zachrulez]

I do my best to fill vacancies. For the record I think the 24 hour rule on newbie slots rule is counterproductive since it's mostly just causing newbie games to be short a slot for 24 hours more, and that's something that should change.

Disagree. Nothing turns me away from newbie games harder than having the majority of the game not be newbies at all

If I wanted to play in a game with a bunch of normal users, I'd join a micro. Which is what I do.

There should be

harsher

limitations on replacements into newbies. At no point should se/ic players outnumber actual newbies

If you get to a point where newbies replace out like that the game has essentally served its purpose in filtering those players out. Keeping some kind of newbie integrity is silly. When I need to replace a newbie slot I don't care who takes it. Only se and ic slots need be restrictive with replacements.

[Zachrulez]

I do my best to fill vacancies. For the record I think the 24 hour rule on newbie slots rule is counterproductive since it's mostly just causing newbie games to be short a slot for 24 hours more, and that's something that should change.

Disagree. Nothing turns me away from newbie games harder than having the majority of the game not be newbies at all

If I wanted to play in a game with a bunch of normal users, I'd join a micro. Which is what I do.

There should be

harsher

limitations on replacements into newbies. At no point should se/ic players outnumber actual newbies

If you get to a point where newbies replace out like that the game has essentally served its purpose in filtering those players out. Keeping some kind of newbie integrity is silly. When I need to replace a newbie slot I don't care who takes it. Only se and ic slots need be restrictive with replacements.

Do you even mod

Whether or not I mod doesn't change the fact that it's probably even less realistic now to expect newbie slots to be replaced only by newbies than it was when I actually was modding. (There was a much more sizable pool of newbies to draw from, and still limited interest in responding to replacement ads.)

[Zachrulez]

Why do you need an ic?
The are many good ic posts out there already. Can't one just be updated as a new generic post for the start of all games by the mod.

Have the mod and SE's share the burden of the ic slot.

Given that people generally choose to SE because they don't want the burden of the IC slot this is a terrible idea.

Can I ask - what do you consider a shit IC? Like is there some defining characteristic or is it a whole bunch of things?

In terms of "shit IC", I'd probably say it's a pretty decent variety of things actually.

Some IC's put forth precisely zero effort into teaching anyone anything, beyond throwing up some intro post at the start and (maybe) answering questions directly addressed to them about theory
Some IC's replace out because they completely siteflaked, or because they made the thread toxic, or for various other reasons that should be completely unacceptable for IC's (an IC who replaces out barring a very good reason should just automatically be banned from the newbie queue for at least 2-3 months; I think SE's who do this should also have consequences, but that's something that is clearly not going to ever actually happen)
Some IC's have absolutely no clue what they're doing as players, and thus even if they're trying, are incapable of teaching anything useful
Some IC's lurk;
Some IC's decide that engaging in communication and back and forth with players is boring, and instead find it more fun to just derptunnel some random slot and hope it flips scum;
Almost certainly other shit that I'm forgetting off the cuff

And ftr, all of the above is stuff I've seen from TOWN IC's (in games I've played, or modded, or just observed), so I'm not even getting into the issues that exist when someone is a scum IC and needs to balance pursuit of wincon with the responsibilities of being an IC.

You make being an IC sound really complicated. An IC is really just more experienced than the other players in a newbie game on this site. Your main job is to teach people how to play on this site. For the most part all that requires is for you to play the game and then give post game tips after it's over. Occasionally you might find the odd player or two who have no idea what they're doing and you might need to prod/guide them into what to do. But really it's not that complicated. The experience is going to teach the players way more than the IC ever actually will. People tend to overvalue the role of the IC in general in the learning process.

[Zachrulez]

But seriously, playing like absolute garbage, lurking, being toxic, and so on and so forth is simply not stuff that is acceptable for an IC, or at least shouldn't be. Currently it is, or at least de facto is.

I wasn't arguing that any of this was acceptable. I was arguing that actually being a good IC is not some kind of glowing bright holy grail that a lot of people on the site seem to think it is. The IC being put on that pedestal is arguably what stops a lot of people from signing up to be one.

[Zachrulez]

I mean it's fair if you want super high expectations for ICs. You should also expect in turn though that interest in ICing in the newbie queue will drop the higher your expectations of the IC slot are. Just saying.

[Zachrulez]

I happen to think there should be an additional block list for newbie games, maintained by the listmod, based on a stricter level of behaviour. Something like (all numbers picked out of a hat):

• Joining a newbie game as an SE or IC is a service to the site and to new players. You are expected to hold yourself to a higher standard. Actions and behaviour that may not necessarily deserve a ban in the greater queues might result in one from the newbie queue. For example, replacing out of multiple games, creating a toxic environment, or playing against win condition will be more harshly acted upon. Sufficiently negative behaviour may result in being banned while the game is still in progress.
  (should probably be a force-replace rather than a modkill)
  
  
• Players banned from playing all mafia games will be banned an additional 50% of time from newbie games. (Being banned from newbie games has no effect on other queues, though it may be considered in whether to apply further bans.)
  
• Players cannot apply to be IC until six months after a newbie game ban expires. Being banned revokes current IC status; re-applying afterward cannot include any references from before or during the ban.

I agree with the above. With regards to the 2nd point I'd go ahead and just straight up double the ban time. With regards to revoking IC status I'm assuming that a revoked IC would need 5 games of experience post ban. I read that from that point but it doesn't seem completely clear from the language at the same time.

[Zachrulez]

For a point of reference--

You make being an IC sound really complicated. An IC is really just more experienced than the other players in a newbie game on this site. Your main job is to teach people how to play on this site. For the most part all that requires is for you to play the game and then give post game tips after it's over. Occasionally you might find the odd player or two who have no idea what they're doing and you might need to prod/guide them into what to do. But really it's not that complicated. The experience is going to teach the players way more than the IC ever actually will. People tend to overvalue the role of the IC in general in the learning process.

What you're describing as an IC is what most people consider the SE to be, more or less.

Whether that's accurate or not is another matter, but what you were describing literally sounds like a common descriptor for the SE position. Which is usually considered "less than an IC" overall.

I don't talk about the SE role much because I don't think it should exist.