Team Mafia Death Thread

[Alisae]

Let me be the first to say it
I do not think EDDIE CANE played well enough to win the tournament.

[Ellibereth]

I mean eddie was the best singular player across all games.
That's not an award but I can fairly confidently say that.

[mhsmith0]

i am actually in fucking awe at how they chose not to get a flip on conf fucking scum

what an awful game tbh

Always lynch confscum, particularly in LYLO

Spoiler:

OK, not 100% of the time, but like 99.9% of the time, with exceptions being shit like "it's multiball and someone's scum but on the losing faction", "scum have a vig and you desperately need to lynch that specific role or you're endgamed", and so on and so forth"

[Mathdino]

i'm just disappointed

had i played in TM2015 i'd have been one of the less than average players there. almost every player in that tournament is nearly unreadable and the vast majority were amazing at towngames at the time

i should not, as a non-top-tier MS player, be in a 15p game in Choose Your Alignment and be
- the most active player by far
- able to come up with a lynch order with all the scum in it after D1 lynching one of the historically best scum players onsite

scum got fucking caught in GIFs game but town was awful and kept lynching lynchbait
that's not credit to scum; bulbazak and chesskid were literally not present for the majority of the game
town did that to itself

[Mathdino]

WHITE FLAG
i will admit this had the highest quality of play
except town caught a horrible case of "only lynch lynchbait" syndrome so yknow solid job town

SMITH
see above

ETHER
utter shitshow of a game in which 2 scum basically got policy lynched and 1 scum got guiltied
town didn't play this amazingly, scum just threw

INVENTIONS
do i really need to talk about this
when mastina/RC get simultaneously caught by a third party AI along with being policy lynch level toxic
and when GL basically gets policy lynched for not being present?
neither side won that, scum just lost

MAGICAL
all the good players died young
town won because thor got a guilty on momo and sheep claimed arsonist and flaked

[Mathdino]

this was just less than i expected from team mafia after having read the previous tournaments and getting all hyped :/

[Mathdino]

Honestly I kinda don't want my team to win at this point? They fucking deserted me when I wanted input on my game, like the only person who even cared after their game ended was Smart I think

no offence

but had you guys force replaced aeronaut sooner (and with someone other than xyzzy) i think GIFs would've been a win

[Mathdino]

Let me be the first to say it
I do not think EDDIE CANE played well enough to win the tournament.

let's be honest though there were like 4 teams that actually kept up with all the games and used that to benefit their towngames

eddie cane - literally just eddie cane
serious business - i think i was the only one actively reading everything
sauciety - except one got fake guiltied, one got nightkilled, and one was ranmaru who apparently can't listen to his team
spam squad - literally just creature carrying his town teammates

credit to RC for manipulating people's read on firebringer by using postie

but besides that, shea's team literally tried to policy lynch me for playing the tournament like it apparently wasn't meant to be played

i would argue eddie cane and A50 were the few town players that played the tournament with all of the tools at their disposal

[Ellibereth]

I mean tldr;

1. Alignment choice was a mistake - but I don't think because of the mechanic - because of the playerbase. See the first two rendition's of team mafia for two fairly succesful runs with alignment choice.

2. I'm generally happy with how the setups ended up. They were basically distributed at various places plusminus 5 of 50% EV imo which is what we wanted. White flag was obviously the one with the highest expected townrate, but I think any argument for it being unbalanced requires the "town is expected to perform MUCH better than the norm in team mafia" which I don't think (and I think the game's themselves reflect?) isn't true.

3. Quality of play was roughly just the same as any other game on site for the most part. Some people overperformed, some people underperformed, and a precious few teams actually embraced the team component. In the end this wasn't an "invitational" event - this was a community event where everyone was welcome. You can disagree with this call but you can take that up with zor.

4. People are bad at reading and following rules. I know some things were accidents - but some things weren't.

[Ellibereth]

Dino, you can't see private coms.
Just because people didn't post about it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

[Mina]

Wtf, scum had a rolecop AND DV's claim was fake?

I guess it was just a coincidence/breadcrumb spotting that they killed T-Bone. Giving the scum PM to Smocaine was a clever gambit, I guess, although I definitely found chesskid's swap suspicious as fuck.

[mhsmith0]

I think that, in the end, my presumption of balance was actually around correct. I set my balance explicitly between what would be OK for MS and what would be OK for MU, and all in all, the event progressed in a way that I think was at about that expectation. The mix of day play and night actions that happened across all games had pros and cons for town and scum, but I think if you make 100 worlds and re-rand role PM assignments among all of the teams in all of the games, you probably see 45-55 town wins in my setup. Admittedly I could be wrong, but IMO scum was materially more successful and effective in their play in this game compared to all of the now-ended games, and despite that town came very close to winning.

[Mathdino]

1. alignment choice is super townsided assuming town isn't terrible
but i guess towns were bad so what do i know
i agree with your take there

2. the setups were totally fine, yeah. the modkills killed it though (so yknow fuck transcend)

3. it's not that i think it should've been invitational. it's just disappointment. i signed up for this before realising how much the quality of play onsite had declined, and how much the former top tier players had declined or just moved on from mafia entirely.
that one's not on the mods. idk who it's on.

[Lycanfire]

one day people will realize i play up a persona

[Keychain]

this was just less than i expected from team mafia after having read the previous tournaments and getting all hyped :/

Super high expectations will disappoint you fairly often, or at least they do me. It's kind of like putting pressure on your entire family to make this special occasion

perfect in every way

just ends up miserable.

We definitely could have played better, but I don't really begrudge them the win, I particularly liked the fakeclaim and teamwork at the end. I'm glad I wasn't the one making the hammer decision.

My NK spec was also sort of on the right track to get DV which is kind of surprising to me.

[Mathdino]

Dino, you can't see private coms.
Just because people didn't post about it doesn't mean they didn't do it.

that's fair

that said

if people were doing it, i would've expected their reads to be better than they were

eddie cane and A50 had VERY good reads for it

[mhsmith0]

2. I'm generally happy with how the setups ended up. They were basically distributed at various places plusminus 5 of 50% EV imo which is what we wanted. White flag was obviously the one with the highest expected townrate, but I think any argument for it being unbalanced requires the "town is expected to perform MUCH better than the norm in team mafia" which I don't think (and I think the game's themselves reflect?) isn't true.

I'd actually say that in this event town has materially overperformed site norms/averages. I'd agree that most of the setups were in the ballpark of 50% EV given standard site play, and then the question is whether or not to expect towns here to have been materially more effective than average. That was an explicit assumption I'd made in design, but it was a prediction and far from a hard and fast rule that was clearly going to end up happening. Plenty of conceivable worlds where it doesn't happen, and my game becomes substantially wolfsided and all of the others are close instead.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I kinda don't want my team to win at this point? They fucking deserted me when I wanted input on my game, like the only person who even cared after their game ended was Smart I think

no offence

but had you guys force replaced aeronaut sooner (and with someone other than xyzzy) i think GIFs would've been a win

that is true
but like everyone else I'd wanted was already in or not interested

[Lycanfire]

eddie cane was the mvp of the tournament, that isn't even my ego speaking. that's fact. he wrote giant ass walls of text from a mobile phone to help titus. his reads were better than mine. my heel turn on dan was 100% as a result of him and mathdino.

[mhsmith0]

PS I think the discussion this phase about chesskid being night and day different from his town game in this setup was essentially correct... but LYLO isn't when you need to really have that discussion. He could have been lynched like day 2 or 3 on that read, and I think that was a key missed opportunity by town.

[Ellibereth]

I mean yeah we weren't sure what to expect "play quality" wise so we hedged across setups - which I think worked as intended.

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean tldr;

1. Alignment choice was a mistake - but I don't think because of the mechanic - because of the playerbase. See the first two rendition's of team mafia for two fairly succesful runs with alignment choice.

2. I'm generally happy with how the setups ended up. They were basically distributed at various places plusminus 5 of 50% EV imo which is what we wanted. White flag was obviously the one with the highest expected townrate, but I think any argument for it being unbalanced requires the "town is expected to perform MUCH better than the norm in team mafia" which I don't think (and I think the game's themselves reflect?) isn't true.

3. Quality of play was roughly just the same as any other game on site for the most part. Some people overperformed, some people underperformed, and a precious few teams actually embraced the team component. In the end this wasn't an "invitational" event - this was a community event where everyone was welcome. You can disagree with this call but you can take that up with zor.

4. People are bad at reading and following rules. I know some things were accidents - but some things weren't.

I feel like your rules were rather oppresive to actually trying to solve based on what mathdino was arguing, the scum preferences thing
Like from the omission of rule 6 I got the feeling you wanted us to treat the games like individual units and not a cohesive set

[Mathdino]

PS I think the discussion this phase about chesskid being night and day different from his town game in this setup was essentially correct... but LYLO isn't when you need to really have that discussion. He could have been lynched like day 2 or 3 on that read, and I think that was a key missed opportunity by town.

i wouldn't have been willing to lynch chesskid without a radja flip mostly because of how much NAI shit there was for smocaine/chess

that said i'm not personally familiar with chesskid's meta so

regardless the objectively correct thing in that situation was lynching
radja --> chesskid

town
could
not
get
votes

what a frustrating game

[Ellibereth]

Like If you want my thoughts on teams and players, I'll just focus on the positives.

Across all games Eddie Cane/skirt skirt was easily the best player.

Teams that played best overall are in the set of shea's, chess's, and black goo.
An argument can be made for eddie cane but that would literally be because skirt was carrying everyone his back.

[Mathdino]

reck, shea, and cheet were definitely good