Problems with the Scummies

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Problems with the Scummies

Post Post #0 (isolation #0) » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:29 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I remember when I started taking this site seriously in 2015 the scummies were like a big thing to me. I have also been told from the vast majority of people who were around before that time that the scummies were taken even more seriously before then but everyone gradually stopped caring in the years leading up to that. This year, the prevailing attitude towards them that I've seen is that, barring Mastina and a small contingent of newer players who aren't jaded about them yet, no one cares. The scummies have had judging delayed for two months waiting for Zoraster and the SSC (several of whom are inactive on site and the remainder of whom either play mafia or influence the meta extremely rarely) but no one really cares about the delay... because no one cares about the outcome. I've heard it described as a popularity contest, poorly modded/judged in general, the nominations are bad, all manner of complaints, but I haven't heard anyone say that they're happy about the way scummies are run.

And that includes backstage, for the record: The Plottin Kittehs win, from people who were actually engaged in the judging few people in the judging had actually engaged the material in finalists beyond "I like Plotinus they're good let's give the win to them". As an armchair judge I was floored at the win because I personally thought it was just about the worst nom: the game involved a modkill on town's only +equity PR that made the game ridiculously scumsided from the end of day 2. With no offense whatsoever meant to Plotinus or Mala both of whom I like and have a great deal of respect for I think that win only happened because the people who have the competence and who care enough to do a good job judging are too disillusioned with the system as a whole to bother being a part of it. I've heard bitching about the scummies from the judges since the year that I got here.

First and foremost, and I think that regardless of opinions on the further changes which I admit are subjective based on my own vision of the scummies:
Understand that while we certainly value input, ultimately the Scummies Steering Committee has to make the call that it believes is in the best interest of the Scummies and MS. It is not a democracy.
Democracy or otherwise: who is the Scummies Steering Committee right now and what specifically qualifies them to this position besides them always having been there?

The fact that the SSC aren't engaged with the mafia playing community anymore hurts the scummies in several ways. First off, given that the judges and recipients are heavily skewed towards newer players, it means that the people making the decisions aren't actually the people who the scummies are for. This manifests itself in both the clear reduced interest that they have shown and the lack of representation causes the people being represented to lose interest as well and these both feedback into each other. Furthermore, it means that the SSC has less influence among the modern players of the site: if the SSC were well connected well respected people who play right now they would be a lot more able to both get more judges and get higher quality judging to happen. Finally, it hurts the credibility of the entire system when there's decisions from on high being thrust upon the system: as an example in the current year's judging there was a game that no one picked to be a finalist that Zoraster independently decided should be a finalist despite literally no one on the judging committee thinking that they should make finalists over at least one nom that did have support. That kind of partiality from the moderation undermines faith in the system and if Zoraster feels that the judging isn't being done well enough then he should change the judging or act as a judge rather than use his administrator status to force things through against the will of the actual judges.

I think that with newer blood that has more connections among the mafia community of 2018 on the scummies steering committee would be more engaged, be able to run it in a manner more suited to what the community currently wants, and be more able to rally more invested people to put enough of an effort into taking the scummies seriously. I think that the current image that it has as a popularity contest squarely stems from quality standards and investment slipping due to the people in charge no longer being immersed enough in the community to encourage judges and put the time in, and given that Zoraster and the SSC have now held everything up with the judging complete to finalist stage for two months now, I think something really needs to be changed. Possibly like individuals in the SSC can stay but the setup as a whole is clearly not working and I think that it ought to be handed off to a new set of people.

To follow are some of the ideas that I personally have for improving the scummies.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #1 (isolation #1) » Fri Apr 06, 2018 4:30 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

Now, as an example of something that I think should be changed from within the system, I think that the current system of having ONE town nom and ONE scum nom is stupid. There's armies of moderation noms for a small part of the site but the mafia playing experience only having two noms is rather silly. Here's what I would propose

3 scum play awards:
1) Body of Work
2) Best Individual Game
3) Best Scum Team

3 town play awards:
1) Best Scumhunter
2) Best Town Leader
3) Best Mechanical Play

Then from the awards, the scummy judges would then pick which of the three they think most represented either Don Corleone or Paragon and they would get that title while the other two would get the smaller titles.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #2) » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

No one sees it and the feedback given there is largely ignored in favor of a we know best attitude.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #3) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:13 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

The scum winners don't play much so yeah

Plus with the teams gone. I agree.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #4) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:13 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

There will be more volunteers when people care about the scummies

You're treating it like a foregone conclusion that things are the way they are: get people who have connections in the modern mafia community to take charge of the scummies and encourage qualifies people to mod while making the scummies matter more to people and that will change.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #40 (isolation #5) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:15 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I also think it's important that the scummies are separate from the administration of the site and I've outlined some of the reasons.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #71 (isolation #6) » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:21 pm

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the bottleneck is judging because people are insufficiently interested in judging because ->>>>>>
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #7) » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:37 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

There's a lot that I want to see changed, and I am a huge fan of adding back a lot of the old awards, but I think that it fundamentally has to start with a reset on most of the SSC members

I think that some of the changes being adopted but the group continuing to be run as is is a dead end. I'm wary of diluting my message by talking too much about changes in this thread because this ending with a Zoraster post saying that they're taking the ideas that they liked and maybe switching out one member of the SSC and scrapping the stuff they don't like and continuing to largely run it as is is probably the worst case outcome here.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #8) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:19 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I have nothing but respect for everything they've done over the past years but correct me if I'm wrong but I feel like they've largely moved on but for whatever reason the scummies haven't.

If they want to come back and put the time into the game as it is to get to know the people that play know, if they want to invest their time into recruiting people, if they want to invest their time into changing the image that the scummies have around site then I would be very happy to have them stay. But I don't think that that's the way things are right now. I don't think that the scummies are self sustaining without a lot of time put in by people who are passionate about it. But even then I feel like there have been a substantial amount of decisions made that the site as a whole are not okay with and the attitude thus far has been the one expressed in the scummies suggestion thread, that we can say what we want but the SSC knows best and are going to do things their way. And I'm not alone in disliking the way that things are done as is.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #88 (isolation #9) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:14 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

I think the scummies aren't for the recipients, they're for the site as a whole. being a recipient is more of a responsibility than anything.
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #91 (isolation #10) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:36 pm

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I love you alibae <3<3<3
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #125 (isolation #11) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:43 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

awards aren't for the recipients
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #127 (isolation #12) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:32 pm

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strongly disagree
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #130 (isolation #13) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:53 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

awards don't exist for the people who receive the awards
like paragon doesn't exist so that someone can brag about being paragon
it exists so that everyone else has someone that they can look up to and learn from
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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