Problems with the Scummies

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Post Post #20 (isolation #0) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:03 am

Post by mastina »

In post 3, beeboy wrote:I agree that there needs to be more categories.
This has always been something I've been in favor of, for what it's worth. The more and more you reduce the number of categories, the less and less you are stating is worthy of Scummies, more or less. Which is the opposite of the culture I feel we should be encouraging.

I maintain, even having been a judge, that more categories is NOT a problem for judging, and not significantly more a work load. (Admittedly, though, I have to confess that I didn't judge as well as I would have preferred, but that wasn't a consequence of the number of categories. You could have literally only one category and I'd still be saying I didn't judge as well as I'd prefer. Having literally ten extra categories wouldn't have overwhelmed me any more, is what I'm stating, more or less.)

YES, I realize it is possible to go the other way--having too many categories devalues the Scummies themselves and makes them trivial. But I feel like having too few categories means you are stating that there is far less worthy for a Scummie. These two ideas might work in opposition, yet I feel we can have a happy medium which right now we don't have because we are heavily tilted to the "too few categories" side.

Then again, RC is right in that I'm not jaded, so. :P
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Post Post #21 (isolation #1) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:09 am

Post by mastina »

In post 4, Gamma Emerald wrote:also I feel like Kodak Moment really should be seeing more love given it's not one based on skill but humor/notoriety
The problem with Kodak is that it ISN'T humor/notoriety, it's a catch-all category. It's literally the "Well this was a Scummie-worthy moment, but doesn't have any existing Scummie" category. Towns which roflstomp scum used to have a Best Town Scummie, but explicitly from the people in charge at the time of removing said scummie, they said to just nominate towns that roflstomp scum for Kodak Moments.

Towns who pull impressive posts/gambits which basically singlehandedly change the course of the game and lead to a town win where before the game was headed towards a scum win? If I recall correctly, that had a Scummie too, but it was rolled into Kodak Moment. This is not a humorous moment, and yet it is also part of the award now.

Scum who manage to turn the game from a town win into a scum win from a single post would theoretically be included in the above, too.
Scum who singlehandedly manage to turn the game from a scum win into a town win and in some rare instances town who singlehandedly manage to make a spectacular fuckup that hands the scum the win tend to be more humorous moments that would qualify under humor, but there's also humorous moments that are specific posts that don't necessarily change the course of the game, just make people laugh.

All of those are in the Kodak Moment category right now.
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Post Post #24 (isolation #2) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:34 am

Post by mastina »

In post 21, mastina wrote:Towns who pull impressive posts/gambits which basically singlehandedly change the course of the game and lead to a town win where before the game was headed towards a scum win? If I recall correctly, that had a Scummie too, but it was rolled into Kodak Moment. This is not a humorous moment, and yet it is also part of the award now.

Scum who manage to turn the game from a town win into a scum win from a single post would theoretically be included in the above, too.
Tangent to this, btw. A common manifestation of this is, obviously, a replacement who changes the course of the game. We used to have a 'Best Replacement' Scummie which got dropped.

On the one hand, I can understand the reasons for having dropped it (I can't quite vocalize this but I do understand the decision and why it was made), but on the other hand, I feel like the existence of that Scummie was a way to encourage players to replace in and try their utmost.

For instance, a replacement replacing into a slot which is screwed, managing to salvage it, or even replacing into a slot which is guaranteed to lose and yet being a good sport and trying their damnedest to still win in spite of it being literally impossible to do so. That kind of attitude is the sort of one I'd want encouraged in replacements. Where someone replacing in gives their all and manages to make the most of a slot, regardless of circumstances surrounding it.

Yet as things are now, aside from players/the moderator in postgame showering the player with praise, that type of performance would go entirely unnoted. Nobody would think anything of it in any future time/event, aside from perhaps the moderator/players encountering said player at a later date and remembering their performance.


Scummies serve the base purpose to award people who were deemed to be outstanding in some way, e.g. an outstanding moderator, an outstanding scum player, an outstanding town player, a player who had an outstanding moment in a game. (This is probably not the best of wording, but you get the idea. Their description on the wiki is, "The Scummies is an annual event run by volunteers on MafiaScum which awards Scummers of exceptional talent, luck, or misfortune." and this is what I am talking about them being, essentially.)

But I also feel that--whether they are meant to serve this purpose or not--the Scummies serve to be an inspiration, specifically, as an example encouraging the behaviors we as the community on mafiascum, decide we most want to encourage players to be. Paragon inspires players to be the best town player; Don Corelone inspires players to be the best scum player; Modfather inspires mods to be the best moderator; other modding awards inspire people to be creative and innovative when designing their setup; Kodak moment inspires people to be memorable.

And beyond that, by awarding it to a specific person, we are stating, more or less, whether we intend to or not: "Go look at what this person has done. And that is the quality you should aspire to have".

Are Scummies meant to act that way? No, not really. But I know that when I was a newer player, that's the perspective I took on them. And over the years, I have seen many generations of newer players ALSO view them that way. Players who have passing familiarity with the Scummies more or less have that mindset, "Oh, this is what's the best in that way", and in theory serve to inspire them to be of that quality.

So I feel like having more Scummies covering different aspects of the site/game currently uncovered by the Scummies would help to serve as a method of revitalizing mafiascum. "Best Replacement" being a theoretical example of one such Scummie we could use to hypothetically help inspire people to replace more often and to deliver a higher-quality performance when replacing.
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Post Post #25 (isolation #3) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:42 am

Post by mastina »

In post 22, Faraday wrote:won't work, judges won't get through the sheer volume of games needed to judge it properly - so it'll be judged half assed and poorly.
Speaking as a judge--while this was in fact the place where my judging was at its weakest, this was not nearly as hard as you're making it out to be. I DID go through games. I do admit I didn't go through games quite as thoroughly as I'd have preferred, but I wouldn't call the judging I did half-assed/poor.

It's not hard to go through the necessary games and highlight key aspects.
In post 22, Faraday wrote:the biggest problem with the scummies has always been a lack of volunteers to judge who then follow through and judge
properly
.
Which is why having more judges has always been my suggested answer and I maintain it as being the correct one. Judges might not be able to judge every category properly, but with more judges, they don't need to. I don't think that it's a lack of volunteers, so much as a lack of easy access to volunteering.

There was an announcement made in one thread asking for judges fairly late--but it was a fairly obscure announcement if I recall correctly, one not readily available to find. Make it much, much, much easier to apply/volunteer to be a judge, and I guarantee you you'll get the needed number of volunteers. Lack of exposure to how to volunteer is in fact going to suffocate the number of volunteers.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #4) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:54 am

Post by mastina »

In post 26, Faraday wrote:i think you're assuming that there were always more volunteers than people selected, that was definitely not the case.
No, I'm stating that you'd get more volunteers if
-More people knew HOW to volunteer, and
-More people knew they COULD volunteer.

Neither of which, people are well aware of. The process for volunteering is not widely known/very public.

Making a year-round easily accessible place for this information to be found (for instance, having a blurb about volunteering to judge in the Scummies thread itself as a possibility) would be a start--
...And so too would, when judges are needed the most, a global announcement asking for them.

No fucking shit you're not going to get a large number of volunteers if people don't know how to volunteer or if they are legally even able to volunteer. (I knew that when I volunteered, I wasn't even sure I legally could do the job thanks to a combination of me having nominated someone in almost every category and/or having been nominated in categories leaving no Scummie where I was neither. The answer was, obviously, that I could in fact volunteer, but I didn't KNOW I could and the first indication I could was when I was accepted into the judging group.)
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Post Post #30 (isolation #5) » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:01 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 29, Faraday wrote:i always liked most enjoyable player as an award for showcasing something other than actual "technical skill" - making games fun should be something awarded too. similarly i thought best town/best scum performance should have been left there and awarded if a scum team or town performed particularly well.
Echoing this. I understand the motivation/justification to removing most awards and I can understand the reasons why these awards were removed--
Enjoyable player is too subjective or something of that sort,
Best Towns are rarely every town player or some bs of that sort,
Best scumteams can be nominated as a group for Don Corelone (except from experience judging backstage on how that was handled...no they fucking can't), something like that.

But I can't really agree with that.
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Post Post #67 (isolation #6) » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:46 pm

Post by mastina »

In post 52, Mathdino wrote:what how did those EVER go away
"The same people are being nominated for these awards year after year, so we're going to drop them".
Not joking.
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