Worst role ideas?

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Post Post #4759 (isolation #200) » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:35 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Self-Mason is better than VT in every way (assuming that it flips as a Self-Mason). You can leave notes in the Mason QT for someone who might potentially replace you later.
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Post Post #4797 (isolation #201) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:33 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4794, vonflare wrote:You are an
uber-survivor
.

If you survive to the endgame, you win
alone
, and the remaining faction loses.


I've seen this in an Open before (offsite). If the players know it exists, it suddenly makes things very interesting. (The game in question had investigative roles in both factions.)

I suspect it might be rather swingy, though.
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Post Post #4890 (isolation #202) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:14 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Weak fruit vendor isn't much better than weak cop, because on the night you hit Mafia, they can just claim not to have seen the fruit vendor message. It doesn't really even confirm townies, because if anyone you targeted has died, the scum can take an educated guess that that's happened when nobody claims to have been fruit vendored on a particular night and claim that it was them who was targeted that night.

That said, weak cop is not a weak role.
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Post Post #4894 (isolation #203) » Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:37 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4891, GreyICE wrote:You obviously breadcrumb as a weak fruit vendor, same as you do hider/weak cop

Right. My point isn't that you can't play it like weak cop, because you can; it's that I can't see any advantages (or disadvantages, to be fair) it has over weak cop for the player holding it or their faction.
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Post Post #4898 (isolation #204) » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:29 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4895, Who wrote:Basically the only difference is that you have an excuse for claiming/seriously crumbing your targets before you fullclaim.

Also it has all the advantages (Which, admittedly, I'm not sure exist beyond the occasional specific situation) of a normal fruit vendor.

You know how a Friendly Neighbour basically lets other people get Cop results on you (thus proving you're town)? Fruit Vendor was intended as the Rolecop version of that (it lets you prove you don't have another role). It's normally only really seen in Smalltown-type games where you get to bid on roles; you get to say "look, I had the option to bid on roles and intentionally chose a useless one". Some people like being able to do that, even though it isn't really alignment-indicative.
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Post Post #4904 (isolation #205) » Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:11 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Just because Beloved Princess is already a role doesn't mean it's not terrible, though.

Here's a role that's outright brokenly powerful, but looks absolutely awful for town:

You are a
Compulsive Gullible Day Vigilante
. You can kill one player in each day phase. If you do not attempt to use your daykill on any given day, you die. If you attempt to kill scum, your action fails. You win with the town.

(That said, "Gullible", which might do with a better name, is a modifier I'd like to see in more non-Worst roles. You can do a lot of interesting things with roles that don't work on scum.)
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Post Post #4913 (isolation #206) » Mon May 04, 2015 5:09 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Wouldn't necessarily be OP as Mafia, because people would assume there was some sort of first-vote-wins mechanic and be spamming votes right as the thread was unlocked.

It'd be similar in impact to a 2-shot Mafia Vigilante, which is pretty powerful but not unbeatable if the setup is otherwise balanced around it.
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Post Post #4916 (isolation #207) » Mon May 11, 2015 10:05 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4905, T S O wrote:But it just confirms scum rather than killing them, so then they just get lynched immediately?

It basically makes the game into almost Double Day. You use the first shot as the lynch. If it goes through, oops you mislynched, but yay you get to lynch someone else now rather than the scum getting their NK. If it doesn't go through, you hit scum, and can proceed to lynch them properly.
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Post Post #4920 (isolation #208) » Wed May 13, 2015 8:54 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4917, Who wrote:
In post 4916, callforjudgement wrote:
In post 4905, T S O wrote:But it just confirms scum rather than killing them, so then they just get lynched immediately?

It basically makes the game into almost Double Day. You use the first shot as the lynch. If it goes through, oops you mislynched, but yay you get to lynch someone else now rather than the scum getting their NK. If it doesn't go through, you hit scum, and can proceed to lynch them properly.

But wouldn't just a standard daycop be better? Or a standard nightcop? Or a standard dayvig? Or a standard nightvig? (Well, actually standard nightvig would probably be worse)

It's good, but not outright brokenly powerful.


Standard daycop is one of the most brokenly powerful roles in existence. I agree that an unlimited-shot dayvig would be better, but how often do you see an unlimited-shot dayvig? (And nightcop is also better, I think, although it's not certain.)
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Post Post #4948 (isolation #209) » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:00 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Cop/Doctor are claims likely to get you nightkilled (assuming you can substantiate them; Doctor might work better for that purpose). Unfortunately, they're also the most likely to bait out useful town power roles.
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Post Post #4949 (isolation #210) » Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:36 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are an
Even More Vengeful Townie
.

Whenever a player votes for you, a random player will be modkilled.

You win with the town.
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Post Post #4957 (isolation #211) » Sun Oct 18, 2015 7:48 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Also, I didn't
actually
have that role in Worst Roles Mafia, but successfully fakeclaimed something very similar to it the entirety of my time in the game (the claim itself was thought up by one of the players I replaced).
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Post Post #4962 (isolation #212) » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:14 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4960, Ythan wrote:Interesting for a variant, if scum chose each night which two players you got to vote on each day. Anyone see holes? Is this a thing already?

It's already a setup. I forget the numbers of town and scum (probably either 10:3 or 7:2), but the game alternates between day phases where votes are unrestricted, and night phases which are like day phases, but where the choice of vote is restricted to three players chosen by the scum.
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Post Post #4991 (isolation #213) » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:18 am

Post by callforjudgement »

We've had the "werewolf and mafia who are masons with each other" both in this thread and in an actual Worst game.

Micro 530 (now complete) had a fun twist on this: a pair of masons who were both confirmed non-Mafia to the other, and both Werewolf Traitors.

EDIT: Werewolf
Recruitable
Traitor Masons. That was a stroke of genius.
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Post Post #5008 (isolation #214) » Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:40 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are
out of here
.

If you replace into another game, you win this one (causing you to leave it).
If this game ends and you are still a player, you lose.
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Post Post #5019 (isolation #215) » Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:55 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Err, the digital telegram was invented in 1809, and was in commercial use by 1840. It was one of the first practical uses found for digital technology.

I seriously doubt any telegram would be sent via non-digital means nowadays.
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Post Post #5024 (isolation #216) » Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:59 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Reflexive Tracker


Each night, you may target yourself. The mod will tell you who you targeted.
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Post Post #5028 (isolation #217) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:00 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Rule Stabilizer
.

If you die, the setup will gradually change in minor but noticeable ways (factions gaining or losing daytalk, the number of shots on roles changing, Jailkeepers changing to Aliens and back, that sort of thing).
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Post Post #5029 (isolation #218) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:41 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are
a Knower
. Your teammates are X and Y, who are also Knowers.

You know every member of every scumteam: A, B, and C are Mafia, and D, E, and F are Werewolves. Your faction has a factional Doctor ability, which can self-target.

You lose if any member of your faction dies. You win if your faction makes up half the playerlist.

Based on a role from Metropolis: Revisited, but modified a bit to make it Worst-er.
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Post Post #5030 (isolation #219) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:50 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Fertile King
.

Every night, a random Town player becomes a Beloved Princess.

You win with the town.
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Post Post #5031 (isolation #220) » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:13 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a .
As far as I can tell, that's a test page named after its author. But it appears in a bunch of lists of roles, and I sort-of want to give the role to someone in a bastard mod, with nothing but the wiki page as explanation, to see what their reaction is.
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Post Post #5032 (isolation #221) » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:34 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Hibernator
.

You can only post once every 200 posts in the game thread (i.e. of your posts, no more than one can be numbered #0 to #199, no more than one can be numbered #200 to #399, no more than one can be numbered #400 to #599, and so on.)

(insert win condition here)
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Post Post #5033 (isolation #222) » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:33 am

Post by callforjudgement »

The Last Chance To Stop The Madness


You can activate this role pregame, causing the game to immediately end in a draw between every faction. This does not count as failing to play to your win condition.
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Post Post #5037 (isolation #223) » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:01 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

We need another Quantum Mafia, really. I suspect it didn't work because a) players didn't understand what was going on and b) players didn't have enough information to make the best possible decisions.

The basic idea is that the players played in a superposition of all possible assignments of roles to players, and were told limited information about the probability of events. Each night the player performed a night action for each possible role they could have. Then the mods would calculate the probabilities for each possible set of night results, pick one at random, and eliminate all the setups in which it wouldn't have happened.

The big problem is that you really want to give people information of the form "if you're scum, there's a 56% chance that Sméagol is your buddy" so that they can be scumhunted properly. This is a problem because someone who is highly likely scum (e.g. because they were the only person to try to nightkill the person who actually died) will show up as being 100%-your-buddy to everyone and thus get insta-lynched by people who are going for the town win. As a result, the setup's normally run in such a way that scum don't know each other, which basically makes it not-Mafia and impossible to scumhunt.

If some method to fix this can be found, it might be worth running the setup.
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Post Post #5042 (isolation #224) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:55 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Paranoid Cop


Modnote: Actually naive
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Post Post #5043 (isolation #225) » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:04 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Win Condition Reverser
.

Each night, you may target a player other than yourself. If they would win (at any subsequent point in the game), they lose instead. If they would lose, they win instead. They will not be informed of this.

This is even worse than it looks at first sight (and it looked terrible enough then)), especially if the existence of the role gets confirmed by a Rolecop or similar.
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Post Post #5045 (isolation #226) » Thu Apr 07, 2016 2:08 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are
experimenting with PM formatting
.

In each of your posts, you must post something resembling a Vanilla Townie role PM. Each post must have the PM formatted or worded differently from all previous posts. You will not be modkilled for quoting or pretending to quote your role PM (although you may be modkilled for failing the post restriction, in which case the moderator is encouraged to disguise the modkill as being for pretending to quote a role PM and flipping you as Neutral Survivor without listing the prevous role).
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Post Post #5048 (isolation #227) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:15 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are an
Overpowered, Imbalanced, 3P Role
.

If you meet some incredibly easy condition, then you start converting the entire game to your faction and eventually everyone wins. This fact is obscured in several paragraphs of explanation that make the game look vaguely balanced. You have a post restriction that prevents you claiming in a futile attempt to make the role more balanced but it's trivial to work around.
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Post Post #5055 (isolation #228) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:11 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 5053, Plotinus wrote:
Polyglot


You may not post in English. All of your posts must be in a language that google translate can translate. You may use google translate to help you write your posts.

Add on a restriction that in each Day, each post must be in a different language.
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Post Post #5057 (isolation #229) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:03 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

The two topics have become rather confused over time.

The main difference is that I try to put bastard ideas here (both the unplayable ones, and the ones that would work fine in a game), and perfectly viable (if often bizarre or unusual) roles over there.
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Post Post #5059 (isolation #230) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:19 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Well, I think this thread is for roles that are bastard, game-breaking, overpowered, unfun, or absurd, whereas the Grand Idea Mafia thread is for a mix of roles but ones that could all realistically be used in an actual game, and fall within actual game parameters of power, fun, and bastardliness. Often I go for making them almost useless (because most setups need more VTs than power roles and non-vanilla VTs are more interesting for a role madness game), but I go for plenty of actual power roles with levels of power you'd find in actual setups. OTOH, most of the roles I post in this thread are third parties that are overpowered or near unwinnable, power roles that generally have a terrible influence on the game around them, or roles that just plain don't work. (That said, I still try to put in a good number of roles that would be usable in a bastard mod game, so that worst-roles games are possible.)

Something like a night 5 motion detector belongs in Grand Idea because it's functionally a VT; technically, it's a marginally better VT. Most of the roles you get in this thread, being a VT instead would be a huge improvement.
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Post Post #5061 (isolation #231) » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:28 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I'd just think "meh, I'm a VT". And VT is a role I'm perfectly happy with getting. (I've been in a game with a Compulsive Self-Vanillaizer before, which is an even more useless role.)

When I played in izak's Worst Roles Mafia game, I was a Mafia Mason (with a Werewolf Mason partner). That role is genuinely bad, both in the way it's named, and in the way it actually plays (because you can often figure out someone's buddies through a neighbourhood, it sets up a prisoners' dilemma that increases the chance of crosskills, thus hurting both scum factions by making things easier for town).
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Post Post #5068 (isolation #232) » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:59 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Mafia Not-Quite-There Voter


You have a number of votes equal to the lynch threshold, minus the number of living players in your scumteam. The extra votes follow your main vote, and are visible in the votecount.

(
standard Mafia win condition
)

This role has a factor that makes it very overpowered and a factor that makes it very underpowered. If the mod is really
really
lucky, they may end up cancelling each other out. EDIT: Clarify that they show on the votecount, it's kind-of important.
Last edited by callforjudgement on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #5069 (isolation #233) » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:28 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Typo Amplifier
.

Whenever the mod makes an error in a vote count, it's corrected in the opposite direction to the one that would correct it (e.g. if a player is shown as having 3 votes on them but only 2 people are voting for them, that player now has 4 votes on them). This is effectively done via adding Loved or Hated modifiers that show on the votecount (i.e. change number of votes, not threshold) and only last for the day.
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Post Post #5075 (isolation #234) » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:46 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Can it at least vote while alive? If not, it's 100% voteless. If so, you could probably set up a code, unless there's limits on voting frequency.
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Post Post #5079 (isolation #235) » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:28 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Voteless Doublevoter


You have two votes, but you don't get to use them.
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Post Post #5082 (isolation #236) » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:01 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 5080, BlackStar wrote:A role where you can't talk at all or vote. You have to communicate through gifs and YouTube videos

The Worst Roles Mafia large only allowed posting via the use of avatar-sized images. knox and YYR got it, and actually managed to scumhunt through it. (One of them managed to say more per post via the use of gifs containing handwritten text.)
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Post Post #5083 (isolation #237) » Wed May 04, 2016 7:29 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are an
Ominous Townie
.

In your first post, place a countdown timer with a duration of your choice, between 1 week and 3 weeks.
In every post of yours from then on, you must place the same countdown timer (i.e. copy-paste the original timer, so that the new timer reaches zero at the same time).
What happens when the timer runs out? Who knows!

(expired on 2016-05-19 14:30:09)
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Post Post #5086 (isolation #238) » Wed May 04, 2016 8:03 am

Post by callforjudgement »

My aim in this thread is often to create roles that could be used in an actual game. (In particular, if anyone ever runs another Worst Roles Mafia, I hope it's in there.)

Not having any idea what your role actually does and being forced to go along with it is pretty Worst.
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Post Post #5088 (isolation #239) » Wed May 04, 2016 8:13 am

Post by callforjudgement »

My definition is pretty much "roles that could only be used in a bastard game, and may well suck for the player who gets them".

Some of the roles are designed to be usable. Others are guaranteed to destroy whichever game they're in. (I think the most recent Worst Roles Mafia, which used random roles from the thread (!), let one slip through that was almost guaranteed to cause a win for the faction of whoever got it.)
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Post Post #5090 (isolation #240) » Wed May 04, 2016 8:49 am

Post by callforjudgement »

IMO that's a net positive for town. Vote to direct it, use it on your second lynch choice, if it hits town you saved yourself half a mislynch, if it hits scum you confirmed them as scum.
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Post Post #5094 (isolation #241) » Wed May 18, 2016 3:12 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Welcome to Worst Roles Mafia! You are a
Town Compulsive Weak Framer
.
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Post Post #5097 (isolation #242) » Thu May 19, 2016 8:49 am

Post by callforjudgement »

I'm pretty sure Loyal does absolutely nothing on a Town Framer, at least outside multiball. Either you target town, in which case Loyal has no effect, or you target scum, in which case Framer has no effect.

The joke with Weak Framer is that Weak means you die if you target someone who investigates as scum, and Framer makes them investigate as scum. (I know you're not meant to explain jokes, but…)
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Post Post #5099 (isolation #243) » Thu May 19, 2016 12:39 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

That's my point.

Framer doesn't affect non-townies anyway, because they're already not town, thus making them investigate as not town isn't a change.
Thus Loyal Framer is indistinguishable from Framer, except in some cases involving multiball or arguably Godfather.
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Post Post #5104 (isolation #244) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:26 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Mini 1673 has finished, so…

Town Black Goo


Everyone who targets you becomes part of a cult, losing their previous alignment. You aren't a member of the cult yourself.
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Post Post #5106 (isolation #245) » Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:58 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Indeed. It's still a terrible role for the person who has it, though. (What inspired me to post it here was someone using it as a
fakeclaim
, which is just mad.)
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Post Post #5112 (isolation #246) » Mon Sep 26, 2016 7:18 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Mafia Reverse Hider


Each night, choose someone to hide behind you. All night actions affecting you will affect them too, and actions aimed directly at them will fail (this has commute priority, i.e. this part of the role works even if you get roleblocked). Additionally, if you investigate as Mafia, that player will die.
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Post Post #5129 (isolation #247) » Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:55 am

Post by callforjudgement »

That role would actually fit in Grand Idea. It's just mostly useless, as opposed to actively harmful, and would thus effectively make for a vanilla variant.
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Post Post #5132 (isolation #248) » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:55 am

Post by callforjudgement »

It's possible to die without flipping in a few special cases (typically involving self-revivers). The Grand Idea thread probably has some of those by now.

(I've also seen a player do a death-like flip without actually dying, and almost all the players believed they were dead, although that game was
very
bastard.)
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Post Post #5159 (isolation #249) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:01 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are an
Exaggerator
.

Each day, you must fakeclaim a role. Each fakeclaim must be more complex than the preceding one.
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Post Post #5160 (isolation #250) » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:50 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Twilight Dayvig
.

Each twilight, you may if you wish shoot the day's lynch.
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Post Post #5182 (isolation #251) » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Third Party Helper


Each night, choose a player. If that player is a third party, whatever condition fulfils that player's victory condition will automatically happen. (For example, if you target a Jester, they'll become massively Hated and end up being lynched with zero votes the next day; if you target an Unjester, you'll nightkill them; if you target a Survivor, they'll become deathproof; and so on.)
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Post Post #5185 (isolation #252) » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:44 am

Post by callforjudgement »

You are a
Serial Killer Treestump
.
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Post Post #5190 (isolation #253) » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:44 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Can I steal that for Roles That Don't Work Mafia? (Most likely a sequel to the one I'm already planning.)

Mafia Loyal Vigilante
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Post Post #5194 (isolation #254) » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:28 am

Post by callforjudgement »

It doesn't take a lot of effort to explain why you haven't used your power role as a loyal vig though…
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Post Post #5196 (isolation #255) » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:43 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Well, I can see some merit to vigging a scumbuddy and then claiming the resulting kill. Most people would consider you confirmed town after that. (It's probably best to claim 1-shot as an excuse for not using the role subsequently in the game.)
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Post Post #5199 (isolation #256) » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:32 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

I'm aware that it's theoretically correct to shoot as a Town Loyal Vig in most situations.

However, I'm also aware that the vast majority of players wouldn't. So even if you personally would, it'd be easy to fake that your opinion is different.
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Post Post #5209 (isolation #257) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:11 am

Post by callforjudgement »

Town Tuesday Hater


If you post anything at all on Tuesdays, anywhere on site (while this game is active), you immediately die.
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Post Post #5218 (isolation #258) » Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:21 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 5215, Skygazer wrote:Disloyal Friendly Neighbor

Each night, you may visit any player. If that player is aligned with the mafia, then they will receive a message stating that you are town.
That seems fairly useful as an investigative, if you're good at bluffing. You may be able to trick the action target into letting you know whether or not they got the message.
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Post Post #5233 (isolation #259) » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:26 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Weak Framer
. (There are several possible ways to interpret this role, but given what thread I posted this in, it should be clear which one I mean.)
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Post Post #5240 (isolation #260) » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:32 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

That's the sort of role that claims D1 and asks to be lynched.
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Post Post #5245 (isolation #261) » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Loyal Vigilante is an actually useful role. (You aim for players you think are overwhelmingly likely to be lynched the next day, if there is one; if your kill fails you'll know they're scum and can lynch them, if it goes through then you denied scum the chance to make a kill that they normally get after a mislynch and otherwise ended up in the same place.)

I guess a
scum
Loyal Vigilante would be pretty terrible, though.
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