Just Play the Hits uPick - Video Killed the Radio Star

[CooLDoG]

confirm

vote: deathnote

[CooLDoG]

/confirm, unsurprisingly got my top pick and im ready to take control and party up.

vote: elton john

serious vote

^ yeah, I'm sure it is

[CooLDoG]

I'd actually be happy with a long day 1, day 2 is likely to be a clusterfuck with everyone having negative utility.

Can I flirt for a townread mollie?

why is that? With the pr heavy set-up, n1 will give a lot of information to the town, making d2 potentially quite productive... But, that does of course depend on what ends up happening.

@varsoon, well, if I remember correctly, I was going to get lynched so, might as well use the shot, right?

[CooLDoG]

will say that i think my negative ability is actually a net positive for the town all things considered, and my self/passive equally so.

How is it negative if you are town then?

I'm also in general agreement with Varsoon's points about the usage of negative abilities. However, if it is something stupid like a post restriction or something trivial, then I don't see an issue using them. We have to keep in mind that everyone has a negative, so I'm not sure how much information scum really get from knowing some of them.

Also, didn't really like mat's response to varsoon's trust comment, could be read as role fishing, but it is too early to tell if that is alignment indicative or not.

[CooLDoG]

[Vote:] vote: mathino[/b]
For two mainreasons:
1) rolefish on varsoon seems scummy to me this early. On one han it could be wifom (math really should be trusted) but on the other han it seems that any person who would benfit from being trusted would not want to out that fact on d1. Scumhave lessto loose due to not being nk targets (barring multi_ball of course).
2) his post about wall posting is bad and reads to me as an active attempt to reduce town discussion in a post restricted game. More info is good. And e must also note math's own hypocracy of "no post over a paragraph" while he goes on to make posts well over that. This indicates that obviously there is a place for prolonged discussion an that if he is town he obviously thought making a long post was good in that case.

[CooLDoG]

Vote: mathdino

Also @mod, do corrective posts like this count towards the daily limit?

[CooLDoG]

@CoolDog: You know "HOT TAKE" is a meme right? I'm a dyed-in-the-wool wallposter, lol. I particularly think Venmar/Varsoon's wall vs wall is garbage, but walls are in general fine and I'm good reading them.
I feel like you should be able to understand sarcasm?
Also your setup spec on me is, if anything, more anti-town than what I did. I literally mean "You can trust me" because I'm town. Full stop, nothing more.

can someone tell me if cooldog is always like this

like that could've been a fair reason to vote me ("oh ho ho mathdino is rolefishing for neg abilities") but that's 3 levels of bad

If you thought that the specific wall vs wall is garbage why make the sentiment general. Also, it becomes clear from this admission that you were not actually being fully sarcastic, you actually meant that the longer posts were bad. Thus, the criticism still stands and sarcasm/irony are not a valid defense. Also, I could just as easily assert that your wall posts are bad for the same reasons you gave for the venmar/varsoon discussion (wall vs. wall posting hurts town), and you wouldn't have a leg to stand on. So I'm not sure how this really address my point, which is that encouraging the town to make less substantive posts is something that scum would want to do, and that you have done.

On the role fish point: a misrep and missing the point. If you read my post you will notice that I never mentioned rolefishing for either positive or negative abilities, rather fishing for varsoon's trust in general. It could be or it could not be the case that the "trust" of varsoon is positive in town hands or it is only negative in the hands of scum. However, either way (or in both ways) it would behoove scum to try to get this "trust" for certainly it would hurt the town to do so. As I mentioned before, it would be silly for any town person to angle for trust in such a way, especially on D1 for either it exposes them as a potential scum target for an nk at worst, and is wifom at best. So simply defering the conversation to a mischaracterization of "fishing for negs" does not actually address the point that I have made. Nor does simply assert that you are town as a good justification alleviate the criticism, for then it would seem to be implied that all town people ought to angle for varsoon's trust, which obviously is not a tenable strat (for scum would then be forced to do the same).

my vote stays.

[CooLDoG]

iirc they were a delayed IC as well and I am not sure if they had claimed it or not.
Still, it was a total clusterfuck.

That said, CooLDoG, can I trust you? My negative ability literally requires me to trust another player.

you can trust me

my negative ability literally has 0 positive utility for town and is confirmable by the fact that i won't use it

in fact is there any negative utility in just claiming neg abilities

Literally the post after varsoon's soft claim, math tries to get trusted.

[CooLDoG]

for a day 1 vote, I'm happy math. I don't think we are going to make much more headway and as you said, at this point we are basically footstomping at this point. I'm going to re-read the game later today (provided time) and post some more reads.

[CooLDoG]

urrrg. Life is crazy. I'll trying to post early in the afternoon today, if I don't, then don't expect jack from me until later tomorrow night.

[CooLDoG]

prodded. Reading game now. Sorry, afk life hit me hard these past few days.

[CooLDoG]

I feel like I should weigh in on this because you're all technically chainsaw defending me, but I don't have a read on Espeonage yet, and want more interaction with him before I lock that in.

Interested to hear more thoughts on that front from Gamma/SKrew.

Gamma in particular, because you mentioned said earlier you were ready to go after me once you were done with the Godelwagon. Has anything changed?

My read on the votes are espi came out of nowhere and said very little about why you were scum other than your play was shitty. Which in all fairness is pretty bad. But, it does not invalidate the possibility that you are scum, nor the possibility that he is. Venmar's 229 explains the situation nicely.

Dino dismissing you talking with cooldog (while rude) and disliking wall posts seems pretty NAI to me. I really don't see any rolefishing. It took me forever to find the accused post. Cooldogs reasoning for voting isnt great (rolefish+saying wall posting sucks), and I think yours might be fueled by some emotion caused by mathdino? I dunno you tell me.

While this is fair, given the current number of posts in the game, it is the best read I could come up with, so I voted it. Nothing really changed in my mind after our argument, thus I kept my vote.

Esp's posts from 248-253 are contentless trash for anyone wondering.

There's nothing particularly crux at the moment which is annoying. But I'm interested in what your stance is now that Godel has been replaced.

Does this leave you free to throw yourself around a bit. We need a good shit stir tbh.

I couldn't agree more

who wants to argue with me about meta?

I don't understand why the rvs wagon is getting so much attention. Seems mostly inconsequential banter to me where any "reaction" tells you get don't mean much. And posts like this read to me as fans cheering in stands waiting for some manufactured drama to justify a vote on someone. I don't know, I read the goble wagon as just rvs wagoning and not really alignment indicative. The fact that the wagon is no longer a thing any more is a sign of this.

how does the old saying go? meta gives me a rash?

meta is trash and bullshit. And sk is posting conteless nothing posts like esp too.

[CooLDoG]

I could hop to the espe wagon if I wanted to, still like my dino vote better. Death note to me is null. Someone would have to present a coherent case on him for me to understnad why people think he is scum. Would be down for either a sleepy wagon for similar reasons, or a sir elton wagon for being on a stupid rvs vote for so goddamn long.

[CooLDoG]

we have 3.5 days left till deadline, given the pace of this game we should start thinking about the lynch somewhat seriously. We have time to pressure wagon someone.

[CooLDoG]

Dino is to me still a good d1 lynch. He has not really scum hunted much for this game, and the fact he still harps on the early wagon of "how he gets into the game" would only ring true if this weren't page 14.

I do not like the napolian counter wagon. As I said, an SK wagon or a sir elton wagon. ELto for simple parroting on a dead wagon, and SK for posting basically no content.

[CooLDoG]

sorry, that meant to be SIR ELTON.

[CooLDoG]

Ari's inactivity is null
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Napoleon

dislike this so much. This is literally the most underhanded hop on the up and coming alt-wagon of all time.

Cool dog, what scum hunting have you done?

Also Aris town activity is typically more active and helpful.

I've hit mathdino as doing scummy behavior. I was unable to post for a couple of day. Then, in my recent posts I have questioned both espionage's, sk's, a sir elton's behavior.

I trust reck

Yeah I'm willing to take a deadline lynch on a null useless slot

more wishy washy, i don't care who is lynched, so long as it happens sentiment.

Math's 338 reads as authentic, in my mind. No real response to mostly gut-shot read list.

We are gonna lose sooooo much activity if Dino gets lynched lol.

I'll read this later when I get off work. Thanks for the reads.

the meta justification for keeping dino alive: dino creates activity, activity gets more scum reads external to dino which is good, thus keep dino alive for now. *shrug* ??? Like, if scummy we should lynch, no?

and 154 isn't a completely brain dead thought.

And that post actually was a totally brain dead thought.

He's dumb, so I'ma gonna vote him for it.

.......

Okay.

VOTE: MathDino

next post is literal brain dead from kk.

[CooLDoG]

Also, what the fuck is up with mathdinos literal scum claim.

[CooLDoG]

Hardclaim

it's basically a scum role

[CooLDoG]

CD you think 338 is authentic but you still want to lynch mathdino for his claim?

If you take investment in the game or one's win condition as alignment indicative this might be of interest. But, even if one were to base a read in such or not, one must grant that the fact that he claimed scum should be enough to lynch him,

it is an overriding reason

to any secondary reads. Here is the proof:

P1) Math Dino is scum or town
P2) IF Mathdino is town, THEN he would not claim scum. *
P3) Mathdino said his claim was a scum claim. By modus tollens,
P4) Mathdino is

NOT

town. By disjunctive syllogism we get,
------
C) Mathdino is SCUM

* There are several reasons why one should accept this conditional statement. For starters, Town should not lie. A town member should never say, "hay guys, I'ma gonna act scummy here for a second and try to get away with it. har, di, har, har". This runs contrary to their win condition. Essentially they are town acting like scum that is contrary to the town motivation of wanting to lynch scum and not lynch town. To act scummy as town is to encourage people to lynch town, thus it is against one's win condition to act as mathdino has. Assuming that Mathdino is acting rationally (part of the "authentic" part of my read) we must conclude that he is scum from the above proof. Now, if you were to say that he is an idiot who does not understand the game (

which I don't think he is

) then this would be a valid defense along the lines of "lynch the vi".

Thus, when we look at Math's scum list I believe we can conclude many things dependent upon him flipping scum.

With that said, I hardly think you have anything of substance to say, nor will you for the rest of this game. I am curious to know your thoughts on who is scum and who is town, and why you read them as such. You are lurking and trying to stay inconspicuous. Me and no one else knows where you actually stand on any of the issues raised in the thread. Me scum dar is pinged.

----

I also don't buy the nappers wagon for some reason. I'm perfectly content on mathdino for now.

[CooLDoG]

but he wouldn't claim it as town

[CooLDoG]

hell nah, but he claimed some bullshit to justify what he is going to be using this night phase and he said just as much himself. Also, he wasn't even at l-1, goddamnit. How do you not see this claim as fishy?

[CooLDoG]

@venmar
it is too nebulous for town

Also, He claimed a softer version of his scum-positive as a town-negative. He claimed some obscure town ability as his positive to seem vtish, and he didn't tell us his other ability, which I assume would be alignment indicative of him being scum, as he himself admits.

[CooLDoG]

There's literally no reason for scum dino to lie anyway given that every role was made before alignments were decided.

If this is his is true his claim basically becomes null. This setup is probably swingy as fuck...

Hmmm... to lynch math or not. My gut check says that he is scum because I've been reading that on him for the entire game. On the other hand it is true that his reason posts are better, and given what varsoon sas the recent claim isn't as bad.

I just don't buy the lurker with little content alt-wagon. hmm... I have time to sleep on it. I'll try and be around for deadline.

[CooLDoG]

please don't let this go to a no lynch

[CooLDoG]

this may be contingent on a Math flip, but i'll call Venmar town.

I've been townreading venmar as well. He seems to be active in the game, concerned about who is getting lynched, and is scum hunting. ALl of that reads town to me.

Two deaths and no possibility of vig means someone was probs pgo or its multiball.

ditto to this. This set-up is super swingy, so I don't think any of thes two options are outside of the realm of possibility.

@venmar, why global roleblock d1? what is the point of that? I mean, everyone has to use their negative abilities first. I guess the calculation is that there are more town than scum, so on the net blocking the first round of negative abilities helps town... seems logical. Although, it does deny town set-up information (but I guess it also does this for scum). I'd like to know your rational for using the global roleblock early, as opposed to later, provided of course you are the person who did it.

However considering how Math played around his own claim, the survivalistic AtE or whatever he was spinning looks worse under that light.

Vote: Math

I agree with this, I still don't like math's play later in the day. However, town also have motivation not to get lynched. And I'm also weary of your wagon hop from yesterday. But yes, still not a big fan of mathdino.

universal block could've been a factional ability instead of a personal one

this is true, but that would be quite strange tbh. It would have to be a 1-shot factional ability, and if this is the case it would certainly not be town, for town does not have factional abilities thus, if factional, then scum.

does it only target negative abilities? clearly didn't affect the 2 kills

having trouble seeing how town wins if they decide to just default lynch me every day
i had better wagons available but it took right up until the deadline just to lynch a nullslot so lynching my scumreads wasn't an option
VOTE: hebichan
leaving this here for now

1)obviously the roleblock would not affect factional abilities. Also, there is a question of if the roleblock would change the status of a PGO, so I'd be more inclined to read it as a Multi-ball, although we would need to know the specifics of the roleblock to determine it. IF it only targets negative abilities, then PGO is still a valid possibility. Athough, on a strict read of the rules, pgo would not be active as a passive/self ability until a negative was used. So, for these reasons, I'm more inclined to a multi-ball set-up

2) A lot of people still think you are scum and it is day2, so I don't lnow what you are talking about town losing if they try to lynch you.

3) What the hell is up with the hebichan vote, case pl0x, or did I miss something yesterday?

whoever roleblocked me, i hate you and all you stand for.

Probably a scum ability
I was also blocked

almost worth a cara vote because you have to use your negative ability first, so I don't understand why you would be pissed about this...

it was a global roleblock that blocked every action that wasn't factional. i thought n1 was the best time to use it since i'd be blocking only negatives from town rather than possible positives. that said i understand i set-back town 1 night since y'all all probably still have your negatives to use. it's an extremely negative ability but i think it was worth using, i don't know, i was super fucking conflicted about it from the time i got my pm

this logic comes from town imho. Seems like the best rational use of it, given the fact that there are more negative town abilities than negative scum abilities as I previously mentioned. Venmar is hard town. Although the fact that this is a negative ability makes me question how negative these abilities really are...

part of me is annoyed that Venmar set us all back in favour of his own abilities (guaranteeing the rest of town has no useful PRs for night 2), but i don't want to call him scum for it. i'd still say he's town even if i disagree with the decision.
hunkering down tonight to work through this.

what the hell are you smoking?

vote: chara

for this reason:

SYMMETRIC ABILITIES

Spoiler:

Each role in the game was given a "negative" ability, a "targeted" ability, and a "passive/self" ability.

ABILITY USAGE

Spoiler:

You may not use your "targeted" or "passive/self" abilities until you have used your negative ability.

It should not impact any positive town abilities.

[CooLDoG]

Cooldog, do you have any idea how the game works? roleblocking all of our negatives is bad because it means none of us can use them to get access to our useful powers for night 2.

depends if use is indexed to sending in the pm for the actions or if it is actually resolved. This I am unclear on.

@mod, clarify the requirement for usage of nagtive abilities. If someone's nagtive is roleblocked, then can they use their positive ability the next night

[CooLDoG]

those who tried to use abilities last night were all informed of that by the mod. that's why i was upset. i don't remember who, but someone besides me already said that.

my negative ability can only work on night 2 at the earliest, thus this is my confusion.

[CooLDoG]

Spoiler: sir elton iso

I'm fine with

vote: Godel

for right now, his vote was icky

Sir elton votes for someone for a non-reason that an rvs vote is scummy. Which raises the question, why did he not do this in his previous post where he voted for espe???

I sent my picks and then realised I forgot that Nickelback was a valid pick but cbf changing.

girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl

vote: Espeonage

i like Vaxx's #168 a lot, it's a very solid analysis of DeathNote's breakdown of the wagon. i would quibble and say that analyzing a wagon on a null isn't

inherently

scummy since i think there's wagon hopping and voting that can be looked at regardless of the victims alignment, but i think Vaxx might potentially be onto something here

the only issue I had with DN's wagon analysis is saying "x town y scum" based on literally nothing, but it's basically the same thing as when people pick a random number of players and say "there's a scum in there!" and that in practice is a null tell even though it's lazy and bad.

regardless, I'm happy to keep voting Godel tbh and the talk around the wagon has provided me with some townreads so that's nice I guess let's keep it going choo choo

Let me translate, I don't like people who analyze the game in a way where one randomly selects people to be scum for no reasons, but on the other hand I'm happy with my current vote for no reasons. Ohh, wait, I'm going to couch this wagon as being productive because it lets me have town reads. Not because I think the person is scum, but it tells me that other people are town.

Hot take: what if we vote it til it dies

more non-reasons for goble being scum and a continued desire for the wagon with no reasons.

i do think it's funny that people like UT (who has lurked a bit already) are coming in with the hot take of lynching lurkers. non-factors coming in just to voice wanting to lynch other non-factors is HELLA SPICY

look I have to distinguish myself from

those people

somehow

scum admitting that they have to look more townie than the lurkers trying to lynch other lurkers, some of whom flipped town. This seriously pings my scum dar. Like, if you are town, why would you care to distinguish yourself from people who have non-reasons for voting? SHouldn't you just automatically not do that? Oh, wait... you are one of those people and simply asserting doesn't make it true.

There's nothing particularly crux at the moment which is annoying. But I'm interested in what your stance is now that Godel has been replaced.

Does this leave you free to throw yourself around a bit. We need a good shit stir tbh.

I couldn't agree more

who wants to argue with me about meta?

Simple parrot with derailing the discussion about useless endless conversations early in day 1. Really great pro-active town play right here. Really trying to catch scum aren't we.

FUCKIN SOLD

VOTE: NAPOLEON

hops to the shit counter wagon. Obviously. But, time was a factor here, so... ehh. But, he had not stated a position on napolian before, and did note that he bought math's claim as town. So this would seem logical.

whoever roleblocked me, i hate you and all you stand for.

ditto

I was doing a goddamn public service

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Is this a cc to venmar?

vote: Sir Elton Hercules John

I also did a read of SK this evening and it honestly isn't worth my time to post about him because it is all contentless nothing posts. Except for this one post which I found interesting:

post restrictions are garbage.

Most, of sk's posts are one line, very short and often simply assert reads there are posts with quotes, but again, the commentary is only one or two lines at a max. The above post makes me wonder if SK is post restricted or not. But either way, contentless nothing posts and hopping on popular wagons makes me wary of sk. I don't see any real scum hunting or hard-hitting analysis in his posts, so he would also be someone I am scum reading.

Also, my previous vote today was proved to be unsound due to my misunderstanding of the roleblock. Thus, I need to move my vote. I would still like to vote for math, but I find his more recent d2 posting to be somewhat better... hmmm... I need to have a sleep on it.


But yeah, @math, don't you dare accuse me of just sitting on your wagon all of d1. While that is where my vote ended up being parked I explicitly made it clear that I had other scum reads and I would be willing to hop to a counter wagon on one of those, so you can suck and egg on that point.

[CooLDoG]

@math... ahhh, that makes more sense now. Still don't like Sir elton for the numerous other reasons I noted. Skrew I scum read, but I can understand why someone else would not. Anyway, either of those two are miles better than whatever shitty non-math wagons that are out there. I'd also note that I am still scum reading math, but not as hard as I did d1. I'd still be down to lynch him, but I think a Sir elton wagon will end up being more productive in the long run.

[CooLDoG]

i'd like you to talk about gamma and hebichan
gamma has produced a lot of content but hebichan hasn't, and that seems to be your main issue with UT/SKrew

your wish is my command sir.

gamma:

Spoiler:

97 is a good early d1 scumhunting attempt. Makes serious points and is not fluff.
109 is the hop to the rvs wagon. I don't necessarily find this to be that scummy given the early state of the game.
141 I am generally against d1 town reads especially this early. It sets-up a player to ignore scummy content which may come in the future. I am not sure how AI it is, but for me at least it does ping my scum-dar slightly. This is compounded by the fact that these reads are merely asserted and not explained.

he then makes several contentless posts, which you correctly identify in 184, 188, and 199.

223 is a hop to the espe counter wagon with parroted reasons. Not the most town play there. notably skrew follows without even a parrot in 224. In retrospect I really dislike how the espe wagon got hopped on. I liked the intial read on it by vax, and I have expressed similar thoughts about espe.
226 is more town reads on d1 while explicitly noting there is no reason for it.
237 misses the point of the vote and tries to deflect by characterizing the vote on him as being based on meta reasons, which it wasn't.
. Here gamma asserts that he is commited to several reads. However, I really don't buy this given the weak justification for them. It is very easy to back-up early town reads and soft town reads that he has made. Additionally it seems that at this point he only has 2 scum reads, gobal and espe, one of which is an rvs wagon, the other is simply parroted reasons which could be walked back. I don't really buy it.
[post]277 pings my scum dar as well. I don't usually read defeatism as town when there is not much actual legitimate pressure to lynch/hammer on the slot. It essentially forces the person scum reading the slot to endorse a lynch prematurely instead of opening the possibility for a wagon to arise, information to be gathered, and then a decision to be made. To me at least this is the natural progression of town-run wagons early in the game, and gamma is actively trying to disrupt this progression. Additionally the deadline was relativly far away at this point, so there would be no last minute counter wagon on him to worry about (which would be an acceptable time to deliver such an ultimatum)...
282 shows a lack of interest in scum reads. How can you not remember why you voted for someone and still like the vote?
282 is also in direct conflict with 226 and 248.

I agree to the assertation I was being noncomittal to my Mathdino push.

. In 226 he indicates that he thinks math is town, and in 248 we see a soft defense of asking for reasons for a mathdino vote. I'm not so sure if I like the interactions between math and gamma in this thread. There is sort of a weird relationship of talking about each other without talking to each other. Gamma's wishy washy behavior makes me think something is up (math gamma scum team with a buss from math? Not sure yet, too early to tell).
317 is a hop to the counter wagon a couple of days before deadline with parroted reasons, a common theme for his votes.
349 derailing discussion with the deadline looming about meta arguments, thus putting more pressure on the town to make a choice between the quickly becoming binary option of napolian or mathdino.
358 and 413 are directed at me. The first is a blatant chainsaw def of math. THe second post is gamma's most meaty post to date and also defends mathdino. I'm, again, feeling something weird about this relationship.
415 more close to deadline bullshit meta discussion that derails the descion making process of either math or napolian.
416 soft, non-committal town read with no explanation.
419 a strong defense of math. However, it is near deadline, so not necessarily alignment indicative.
443 is a weakening of the napolian lynch. This is in direct conflict with 326 which is a call for a bandwagon.
445 admits that defending math is scummy, which was done in 419 as I previously mentioned.
449 More defense of math. Yet, close to deadline.
459 affirmation of the now binary option of either math or napers lynch.
515 is discussion of napers claim and set-up mod wifom bullshit.
519 the whole, he is active, thus positive town utility even if he is scum argument argument.
591 ??????????????????????????????? gamma had been consistently reading math as town past early d1. what is this non-sense?

hebi

Spoiler:

107 is the hop to the rvs wagon.
110 although it is early and "looking for an excuse to vote" is what you do to get out of rvs, this seems like town trying to hunt scum and get out of rvs to me.
156 again, a strange early town read without explanation... I find this to be scummy.
233 a vote for gamma with the non-committal reads reason. Seems legitimate to me. although his md town read is out of nowhere.
279 a reasonable response to an attack of hopping on the rvs wagon.
281 rings true about gamma.
378 a mangled post with reasons for hopping to napers
436 also rings true of gamma and some of my sentiments of the relation between him and mathdino.
612 a voted based on a newly asserted scum read in d2??? no real reasons provided.

tl;dr. I do find gamma's posting to be scummy. I do not find hebi to be very scummy. I need more posts from hebi to make a determination. I also think there is some weirdness going on with gamma defending math and hopping to the napolian wagon for few stated reasons close to the deadline and then wheeling back the read as the deadline got closer. I want to watch that if one of the two flips scum.

math's post 620 reads to me as, "lynch lurkers not your scum reads" which to me reads as scum trying to deflect attention.

"guys, i post a lot, therefore i shouldnt be lynched"

this argument was also advanced by gamma in his 519


I AM SCUM READING (IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER):
Dino
Sk
Gamma
Sir ELton

urrg, goddamnit. Wrong account. Sorry. Quoted for iso reading purposes.

[CooLDoG]

why the hell should I ever read the game from the point of view of a player that I do not know the alignment of? Is that even possible? I think you also missed half the post and are only focusing on the association between you and gamma which I was attempting to draw because your ass is to concerned with not getting lynched to think of anything else but how not to. So, to answer the question explicitly, fuck no do I have any reads from your point of view. And I never will, nor would I even want to try. And trying to bus your possible scum partner gamma is not really going to work for you, because if he flips scum, my vote will probably be parked on you for all of d3 on you until you scum claim or get hammered, whichever comes first.

And no, I wasn't reading the game state as you flipping scum, what are you talking about? I took care to make all of the relational tells conditional statements and indicated that they are predicated on you flipping scum, not that you are scum and thus it is true that gamma is also scum because of it. I also noted that more time and info was needed for this relation to establish alignment. I'm not sure what you are getting at here, other than not willing to acknowledge that I may have hit you and your partner as scum reads early d2. so yeah, I don't know what you are talking about.

[CooLDoG]

Like, goddamn. Do you not know what the word if means? Jesus H Christ.

[CooLDoG]

Let's take a moment to admire the gem that is math's last post. I will humbly act as a translator

Because I'm still suffering from the whole "no one is really helping me develop my reads because half of the game is assuming I'm scum".

"Please give me reads that I can sheep and look town for holding so I don't have to do any actual work and can just keep defending myself to look like I am pro-town."

Point is, there's just not that much objective analysis of Gamma, or analysis of him independent of your read on me

"I didn't read CD's post, else I wouldn't have said this because CooLDoG said all of the below which is not dependent on me flipping scum and is in fact from an objective viewpoint"

Spoiler: shit I said that math didn't read

97 is a good early d1 scumhunting attempt. Makes serious points and is not fluff.

109 is the hop to the rvs wagon. I don't necessarily find this to be that scummy given the early state of the game.

141 I am generally against d1 town reads especially this early. It sets-up a player to ignore scummy content which may come in the future. I am not sure how AI it is, but for me at least it does ping my scum-dar slightly. This is compounded by the fact that these reads are merely asserted and not explained.

he then makes several contentless posts, which you correctly identify in 184, 188, and 199.

223 is a hop to the espe counter wagon with parroted reasons. Not the most town play there. notably skrew follows without even a parrot in
224. In retrospect I really dislike how the espe wagon got hopped on. I liked the intial read on it by vax, and I have expressed similar thoughts about espe.

237 misses the point of the vote and tries to deflect by characterizing the vote on him as being based on meta reasons, which it wasn't.

238 Here gamma asserts that he is commited to several reads. However, I really don't buy this given the weak justification for them. It is very easy to back-up early town reads and soft town reads that he has made. Additionally it seems that at this point he only has 2 scum reads, gobal and espe, one of which is an rvs wagon, the other is simply parroted reasons which could be walked back. I don't really buy it.

277 pings my scum dar as well. I don't usually read defeatism as town when there is not much actual legitimate pressure to lynch/hammer on the slot. It essentially forces the person scum reading the slot to endorse a lynch prematurely instead of opening the possibility for a wagon to arise, information to be gathered, and then a decision to be made. To me at least this is the natural progression of town-run wagons early in the game, and gamma is actively trying to disrupt this progression. Additionally the deadline was relativly far away at this point, so there would be no last minute counter wagon on him to worry about (which would be an acceptable time to deliver such an ultimatum)...

282 shows a lack of interest in scum reads. How can you not remember why you voted for someone and still like the vote?

317 is a hop to the counter wagon a couple of days before deadline with parroted reasons, a common theme for his votes.

349 derailing discussion with the deadline looming about meta arguments, thus putting more pressure on the town to make a choice between the quickly becoming binary option of napolian or mathdino.

443 is a weakening of the napolian lynch. This is in direct conflict with 326 which is a call for a bandwagon.

515 is discussion of napers claim and set-up mod wifom bullshit.

I don't see how talking to me as if I'm scum helps anyone. I'll vote Gamma if there's a better argument for him being alignment informed than hebichan.

"I'm going to ignore the obvious because I'd rather lynch the lurker who actually makes consistent reads and votes with at least some reasons over the guy who waffles, lies, and derails town discussion near the deadline of d1 with meta arguments. But, look at me as town guys, please, please, please. I really don't want to get lynched. If you start talking to me like I'm town, then you will think I'm town, so do that pl0x"

Point is, there's just not that much objective analysis of Gamma, or analysis of him independent of your read on me (or any analysis on the conditional that I'm town).

"I didn't read CooLDoGs post where he gives independent reasons for why gamma is scummy, so I'm just going to assume that both his read on me and on gamma is because he thinks I'm scum and he falsely buys into association tells before flips. In reality, CooLDoG actually holds that both are scum for different reasons, and me flipping town will result in CooLDoG still scum reading gamma, but I just don't want him to wagon Gamma if I flip scum and vica versa because he (correctly) found strange posting from gamma about me."

Given that I am town, this not only means most of your analysis is useless in terms of associations (because after I flip, scum-you can just reverse your read entirley through a new lens), but it's also useless to me trying to progress the gamestate and my reads.

"Gamma not flipping scum will force CooLDoG to think I am not scum, even though CooLDoG has provided reasons that would still imply that I am scum even if Gamma does not flip scum. So just in case I'm a janitor I can discredit CD's read on me via wifom with my role. *waves hand emphatically* "

Extrapolated outward, this is basically my frustration with the game as a whole.

"People are scum reading me for legitimate reasons, and the only thing I know how to do is defend myself, so I'm frustrated."

[CooLDoG]

CooLDoG he's asking for your reads if HE'S town.

My reads don't change? Like, how hard is that for you to understand?

[CooLDoG]

I would say that I would be less likely to turbo lynch gamma if math gets lynched and flips town. However, I'd still be scum reading him.

[CooLDoG]

yeah, unlike you.

[CooLDoG]

97 is a good early d1 scumhunting attempt. Makes serious points and is not fluff.
109 is the hop to the rvs wagon. I don't necessarily find this to be that scummy given the early state of the game.
141 I am generally against d1 town reads especially this early. It sets-up a player to ignore scummy content which may come in the future. I am not sure how AI it is, but for me at least it does ping my scum-dar slightly. This is compounded by the fact that these reads are merely asserted and not explained.

he then makes several contentless posts, which you correctly identify in 184, 188, and 199.

223 is a hop to the espe counter wagon with parroted reasons. Not the most town play there. notably skrew follows without even a parrot in 224. In retrospect I really dislike how the espe wagon got hopped on. I liked the intial read on it by vax, and I have expressed similar thoughts about espe.
226 is more town reads on d1 while explicitly noting there is no reason for it.
237 misses the point of the vote and tries to deflect by characterizing the vote on him as being based on meta reasons, which it wasn't.
. Here gamma asserts that he is commited to several reads. However, I really don't buy this given the weak justification for them. It is very easy to back-up early town reads and soft town reads that he has made. Additionally it seems that at this point he only has 2 scum reads, gobal and espe, one of which is an rvs wagon, the other is simply parroted reasons which could be walked back. I don't really buy it.
[post]277 pings my scum dar as well. I don't usually read defeatism as town when there is not much actual legitimate pressure to lynch/hammer on the slot. It essentially forces the person scum reading the slot to endorse a lynch prematurely instead of opening the possibility for a wagon to arise, information to be gathered, and then a decision to be made. To me at least this is the natural progression of town-run wagons early in the game, and gamma is actively trying to disrupt this progression. Additionally the deadline was relativly far away at this point, so there would be no last minute counter wagon on him to worry about (which would be an acceptable time to deliver such an ultimatum)...
282 shows a lack of interest in scum reads. How can you not remember why you voted for someone and still like the vote?
282 is also in direct conflict with 226 and 248.
I agree to the assertation I was being noncomittal to my Mathdino push.
. In 226 he indicates that he thinks math is town, and in 248 we see a soft defense of asking for reasons for a mathdino vote. I'm not so sure if I like the interactions between math and gamma in this thread. There is sort of a weird relationship of talking about each other without talking to each other. Gamma's wishy washy behavior makes me think something is up (math gamma scum team with a buss from math? Not sure yet, too early to tell).
317 is a hop to the counter wagon a couple of days before deadline with parroted reasons, a common theme for his votes.
349 derailing discussion with the deadline looming about meta arguments, thus putting more pressure on the town to make a choice between the quickly becoming binary option of napolian or mathdino.
358 and 413 are directed at me. The first is a blatant chainsaw def of math. THe second post is gamma's most meaty post to date and also defends mathdino. I'm, again, feeling something weird about this relationship.
415 more close to deadline bullshit meta discussion that derails the descion making process of either math or napolian.
416 soft, non-committal town read with no explanation.
419 a strong defense of math. However, it is near deadline, so not necessarily alignment indicative.
443 is a weakening of the napolian lynch. This is in direct conflict with 326 which is a call for a bandwagon.
445 admits that defending math is scummy, which was done in 419 as I previously mentioned.
449 More defense of math. Yet, close to deadline.
459 affirmation of the now binary option of either math or napers lynch.
515 is discussion of napers claim and set-up mod wifom bullshit.
519 the whole, he is active, thus positive town utility even if he is scum argument argument.
591 ??????????????????????????????? gamma had been consistently reading math as town past early d1. what is this non-sense?

[CooLDoG]

Actually, I had sort of forgotten about it, but I never really dropped my scum read on gamma.

I never liked his responses when I called him out.

I feel like continuing my wagon from day one.

VOTE: gamma

let's go then.

vote: gamma Emerald

better hope he don't flip scum math.

[CooLDoG]

varson, was reading your iso until I had to pack-up for traveling reasons. Found these two posts early d1 that I would like your comment on.

I also imagine the scumteam has some capacity to keep our negative utility abilities from popping off and letting us all go into having positive utility abilities/passives.
So I'm kind of against claiming if only because if I designed this setup, scum would definitely have a factional ability to revert up to two players a night back to their 'need to use the negative ability' state.

Right, it does seem reasonable for you not to claim your negative ability, or any ability for that matter, early in the game before n1 (actually probably n2 in this game due to the positive abilities being broken out. HOWEVER, I'm interested to know what you think of Vinmar given this previous sentiment of thinking that such a global roleblock is a scum factional ability.... It is also notable that Venmar was one of your strong early d1 town reads, and I'm wondering if his claim is what made you change your mind or something else.

Even if there is literally nothing scum can do to mechanically punish negative utility use, simply by knowing who has and hasn't used their negative utility, they can keep tabs on who has enabled their positive PR parts of their role, which gives scum a clearer idea of who to kill from a purely mechanical standpoint.

+1 to this post. This seems to be clearly correct, and someone should claim the use of their negative ability if and only if it effects a large swath of the town or, perhaps, if it directly implicates them as scum to another player (i.e. a fake guilty to someone, like a reverse mason sort of thing) and they are pushed to do so. As you correctly note, scum know that venmar is the only player who, presumably, has access to a positive ability at this point. Which is unfortunate in some respects, because there is no doctor wifom. Although potential multi-ball still presents a sort prisoners dilemma for the two scum teams.

[CooLDoG]

I don't think we should really be lynching based on claims here, all the roles are NAI.

an observation we should all take into consideration.

Also, like hebi also notes, it would be a good idea to start pushing shit at some point, let's

not

let deadline creep up on us and have to speed lynch some shit with a claim from the dark.

[CooLDoG]

this game is truly a pinnacle of activity and scum must be lulzing as they coast

Literally my point all day

Do you have any read on the lack of apparent scum trying save me or hebichan

Cuz I'm inching toward literally lynching every single lurker slot

the lurkers are:

hebichan
Sir Elton Hercules John
Chara

in my estimation. Lynching a lurker is not the worst idea, with the best of course being sir elton. For reasons already specified which he conspicuously doesn't address and does nothing to remedy (no scum hunting)

this game is truly a pinnacle of activity and scum must be lulzing as they coast

Literally my point all day

Do you have any read on the lack of apparent scum trying save me or hebichan

Cuz I'm inching toward literally lynching every single lurker slot

Don't lynch lurkers, lynch the ones that don't give a shit about changing the gamestate, like Sleepy who has me as his greatest SR yet does not care to push it ever, and decided to votepark on a null lurker.

But there is the theory point that inactive game-states hurt the town, and that lynching a lurker inevitably leads to some of them ending up in lylo, usually scum ones because wagons on them are harder to push. And, Elton is guilty of something that Hebi is not, and that of course not even trying to play the game. *shrug* I go where my scum reads take me though. And I really want to lynch the claimed janitor bullshit or you instead. But elton is my lurker compromise to ya'll if your team wants to lynch one of the other teams' squad...

@varsoon:

he "Well, That Sucks" Tell

The general form of this tell is "a player who comments on the outcome of a night when that outcome was detrimental to one or more factions is very probably scum".

This tell usually appears when a no-kill night occurs (or a low-kill night in a game with many killing roles) or when one or more major power roles is NK'ed.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... dard_Tells

[CooLDoG]

Useless tell, I'm town.
Again, I can mechanically prove it.

That tell is maybe more useful in an Open or non-role madness game. I think literally everyone in this game would want to get their negative abilities out the way so they could use their positive utility sooner.

Anyway, I'm townreading you, Venmar. Sorry for not voting you, I guess? If that makes my actions inconsistent with the logic I laid down earlier, guess I'll just have to be a loser like that.

If on d4 you have not been confirmed I will lynch you.

Lol even in rolemadness that tell can be used

pretty much yes. He was like, damn, the guy I wanted to lynch wasn't, shit, now what do I do to look town. Although, honestly, lynching varsoon would be stupid, he was active and has made good posts in this thread in past days. not willing to vote him, but I do get the scum vibes that venmar is getting. But, your point is not well taken, because varsoon is denying that the tell is good at all, not that it doesn't apply to theme games. His role is another, separate, reason not lynch him.

i also apologize. i've been busy with various things related to a change of house.
Venmar and Varsoon are town, CoolDog has continued to give me bad vibes but i don't have a good reason, and no reads on the rest. working on it. i'm trying to not just be lazy and lynch Math, i want to see if i really think he's scum.

why the hell do lurkers always do this. Why is it when you call them out, they always come back and say that the person calling them out is scummy and never actually provide any reasons??? Like, just come back tomorrow when you have more time with an actual post instead? Or compose parts of a good post on breaks.

bleh only half done
I'll either be back into the game or request replacement by tomorrow night

does this give skrew town points or not?

I need to think on espe's points. Why am I not so gung ho on math dino today... hmmm... it is a good question. But we can lynch his ass anytime we want, but if we don't lynch him soon we probably never will... Urrg, keeping lurkers around is bad, scum have no incentive to kill them. Dino wagon also doesn't reveal new info, presumably, it isn't like we will know anything new. Why not wagon someone else, then if that peters out we still have plenty of time before deadline to lynch him. Hell, he already claimed. Goddamn this bullshit of prioritizing pushing scum reads for optimal play. Some of ya'll are just going to have to make compromises and wagon someone. IF it is on one of my scumspects I'll jump to it.

@Mod: If it hasn't been so already, can we get a prod on the Trodded Tripod?

He let me know he was going to be out of town until Sunday.

Hey guys I'm the fucking worst. I've had a chain of LA/No Internet/LA the last few weeks and since the average post density is so high and I was reading everything on my phone I kept saying "eh I'll deal with this later"

I hate to promise content, but I super duper promise with a cherry on top that I will start participating fully tomorrow (Monday). If you want me to demand that I replace out or lurker lynch me before then I completely understand, but me being a member of this game for real until I die happens in the next 18 hours.

it better be good. That's all I'm saying. Also, once you get into the flow of the game, it gets easier. It is in more of the old style of playing, which is actually easier for me to follow than the bullshit spam posters.

[CooLDoG]

Not Voting (5): Sir Elton Hercules John(1), SleepyKrew(5), Chara(12), pirate mollie(4), Vaxkiller(4)

should not be a thing when it is 7 to lynch and the biggest wagon is a whopping 2 people.

[CooLDoG]

Not Voting (5): Sir Elton Hercules John(1), SleepyKrew(5), Chara(12), pirate mollie(4), Vaxkiller(4)

should not be a thing when it is 7 to lynch and the biggest wagon is a whopping 2 people.

Scum is trying to kill out motivation, but town on that list better start contributing.

basically this.

I am not a fan of venmar this game. mebbe it is cos I disagree with his overall approach from d1 to the present but I don't that he wld announce that he global blocked every1 n1. it puts a big target on his head and it puts himself in a position where he will now be accountable for every move he makes. having said that:

@venmar - why are you not scumhunting off of the napolean wagon? it just seems very odd to me

There could be several reasons for this involving his positive/passive ability and nk wifom n2. Also, because there are more negative town abilities than scum abilities it is good to burn it early as opposed to later because overall it means fewer negatives hit the town when venmar's ability is used. If he used it later it would block fewer negatives from happening than positives (scum positive roles are assumed to be more or less equal to town negative roles here). Also, scum would probably burn their negatives night one in order to get access to their power, thus this delays that as well. Basically, it keeps the game state relatively normal for longer which helps the town to gather more information about players before claims start getting tossed around after night the role-madness that will probably be the night phase. So, I think his play is sound, or at the very least justifiable from a town perspective.

my love for gamma has dropped. does anybody else get the feeling that he is trying not to make waves? GAMMA WHY U NO MAKE WAVES? it wld have been cool to have formed a solid basis for a townblock on d1, but gamma is not tickling my town senses.

Gamma has been basically lurking, sheeping, and defending mathdino all thread long. So I agree with this observation.

charo is some1 who piques my interest.

hebi I only know from 1 game in which I replaced out of.

math has dropped down a town leanish, it is dependent on a cple of flips. I don't think espy/math are a team and it wld be interesting to see where espy goes if math flips town.

I expect grande things from elton. grande things. he gets a pass for now.

I was understanding this post until the last line. Sure, I can see why if math scum, then espe not scum on his team. But how the hell is elton any different than charo or hebi? I mean, most people voting hebi think she is a lurker scum. Most of the case on Charo is lurker scum. ANd elton is lurking scum too. WHy does he get a pass and charo not?

if you were to 1v1 somebody who wld it be?

a stupid question, but okay: I'd probably do it on gamma or math. Probably gamma over math because wagoning math again grants no information.

second question, who is your towniest read at the moment?

Venmar

Okay so I've been thinking about this and I heavily, heavily doubt this is multiball. I don't believe Reck mods unannounced geriatric UPick multiball at all.

Calling this setup as 11:3:1 with some OP serial killer.

I think we should continue hunting for groupscum as normal, and use the NKs to find SK later on.

this is a possible set-up variant that will need to be taken into account. But how differently would an SK act than scum? Like, part of the reason the role is not viewed favorably by a lot of people is that it basically forces one player to act like scum without help from the rest of the team. So I'd say we should just scum hunt a lynch scummy people. When a scum flips we may get more information about possible multi-ball. I mean, we should be due for either a cross-kill or a scum lynch soon probabilistically speaking.

Also recall that multiball setups are balanced around the possibility of crosskill. In a setup like this, crosskill is basically endgame for either scumteam. I also think enough people acted alignment informed yesterday that we can reasonably assume the scumteam, whoever they are, is not genuinely scumhunting.

I could get behind voting this just to make it stop talking. what the actual fuck dude.

Also, yes, what math said there is actual bullshit.

Preventing scum from accessing cool abilities is outright worse than preventing town from using cool abilities, especially since town outnumber scum.

yes, but he has to use it to get his positive ability. Thus using it early blocks more negative abilities than positive. The only argument for not using it would be that there was some know scum power that needed to be blocked at the cost of all other abilities later on. The chance of a know ability needing to be blocked is quite low, and difficult to determine from town perspective, thus the n1 role block. We've already discussed all of this at length before. And debating lynching venmar at least for me is squarely off the table.

I could get behind voting this just to make it stop talking. what the actual fuck dude.

Do you really think the setup is 11:2:2?

I don't know how better to explain a gut feeling that this hasn't played out how I'd expect multiball to.

I personally have not picked up anything that would indicate one possibility over another. We know for a fact that if it is a multiball it would probably be 2:2 due to the fact of no odd/even night killings. We do know that both kills are factional, otherwise they would have been blocked. I'm not sure if an SK would have a factional kill, or if it would be unlocked by usage of a negative ability first with then some super powered stuff coming after that... this is just vile set-up spec though and we will know more once an actual scum flip is revealed. although 3:1 is a perfectly valid set-up and could also explain n1 results.

Setup'll prove you wrong, then.
Now we're looking at having only 5 or 6 'positive' town abilities pop off instead of 7 or 8.
But y'know, yeah having one more day of 'info' sure does help!!

and we are looking at 5 or 6 negative abilities used instead of 7 or 8. The calculation of if it is better to global rb early or late depends on how bad the negatives are and how good the positives are. Venmar can't know this, and thus opt-ed to burn it early and get access to his power.

SleepyKrew has requested replacement.

scum or town points anyone?

[CooLDoG]

also, why the hell would scum claim to have global rb'd on d2 after two night kills? What?

[CooLDoG]

VOTE: Venmar

I'm a one shot delayed one shot rb.

I find it impossible to buy Venmar's claim.

[CooLDoG]

I mean he really did role block everyone last night. Well, someone did anyway.

I don't understand what your getting at.

What are the odds of my weak role being in the game as town with Venmar's role being town? He is likely real...but scum.

roles defined before alignment?

That's your negative role?

Negative is the delayed.

Wait. So your negative modifier doesn't even really affect your ability to use your powers? Eeeeeh why are we all lapping this up feels like something possibly given to scum to reduce the gateway

yes, it seems odd as a negative ability for it to actually end up being a positive. Like if you rb someone who has claimed town pr who has yet to use their negative ability, then it isn't negative. I mean, literally everyone has a positive role, so using it tonight, for instance, would essentially make it a role block for tomorrow night on the positive scum role.

That's your negative role?

Negative is the delayed.

Wait. So your negative modifier doesn't even really affect your ability to use your powers? Eeeeeh why are we all lapping this up feels like something possibly given to scum to reduce the gateway

This is utterly terrible attempt to confuse.

Negative Modifer Delayed (1 shot)
Positive Roleblock (1 shot)

Second why would town have two roleblockers?

so basically what this says to me is that you don't have a negative ability, or you really only have two abilities.... Either way, this does put into question the scum's claim. Although 1-shot-delayed-scum-role-blocker does seem like a possibility as well. It would seem to me to work better as a scum role than as a town role. But it does depend on the relative amount of power... hmmm.... in a role-madness game like this having a global rb and then a 1-shot town rb doesn't sound too improbable either, depending on how much power reck gave the scum... idk, set-up spec bullshit.

vote: varsoon

If versoon flips town I'll eat my pants

I do find varsoon's vote funny. It is in scum interested to kill you to eliminate kill wifom with the other team (venmar is the default for both teams/sk, and would thus lead to only one kill provided both sides correctly pick the right end of the prisoner's dilemma). If Venmar doesn't die, and there is only kill, then we know some bullshit is up, because there should be no theoretical doc-protect except for the very unlikely case that venmar has a global doctor.

god, alright. the psychological effect of "don't post anything because you have a limited number of posts in a 24 hour period, and you don't want to make a wasteful post" is alive and well. i'm still a dumbass for somehow falling for it.

also Venmar is town. i might actually just sheep him if i really can't get my head on straight.

a post complaining about not being able to post content which posts no content. Standard lurker plays here.

I literally can confirm myself as town and the dude's voting for me.
If I'm not conf-town by lylo, you can lynch me and it's that easy.

pretty much this though.

[CooLDoG]

We as I see it have a couple of options:
1) lynch a lurker scummy person (elton/cara)
2) lynch mathdino
3) lynch gamma

All 3 options include you voting for someone that already has votes on them, which we should be doing, goddamn it, before deadline starts to get oppressive. Trying the resolve the whole RB thing today is useless, given the fact that scum are going to kill one of them, and there will be no way for town to block, and thus we should get information on it after the night

[CooLDoG]

also how the fuck is a delayed rb a negative. IF titus gets whacked tonight the rb still theoretically goes through right?

[CooLDoG]

varsoon's claim is constistant given that all negative abilities were rb'd today. I don't get that point. Venmar can prove himself when scum kill him tonight, which theoretically could only be blocked by him, or another scum teams negative abilitiy. But why the hell scum would want to leave venmar around is beyond me. Perhaps only for bullshit wifom with titus' slot. Although, I still don't understand why both can't be scum, town, or a combo of the two.

[CooLDoG]

venmar, titus, change your votes, those wagons are not happening today

[CooLDoG]

Why is math like getting away with being more shimmy today than yesterday?

he isn't. But lynching gamma is also good. I'm still down to lynch mathdino, but I don't feel like simply wagoning him to lynch again on d2. It produces nothing that we don't already know. It will litterally be the same as yesterday's math wagon. BUt yeah, I've been conflicted on this, the guy is scummy as hell and deserves to eat rope.

i can't see myself backing a gamma emerald wagon today

will always happily settle for a dino wagon, could be swayed for an elton wagon

I would also settle on a dino wagon. Voting for elton would be more productive, I'd be down to hop to that if other people are also scum reading him and the wagon would actually get some pressure. Given the state of this game, I'm feeling the clock ticking on activity before deadline. I don't want today to be some ho-hum last minute sort of affair. Hitting scum today with our lynch massively improves our win chances given a multi-ball.

Notable that hebichan and mollie (and to a much lesser extent UT) both locktowned me on D1 but have since moved me into nullpool/lynchpool without explanation, now that 2 potential votes on me died at night.

This is really icky. I feel like both wagons today are scum-driven. I'll obviously vote a nullread again to save myself again (unless Gamma has provably positive town utility), but this is getting kind of ridiculous.

@Espeonage: I mean if you want the honest/ugly answer, I'm not getting wagoned as hard right now because 2 votes on my D1 wagon are now dead.

Mollie is becoming more of a lurker as the game goes on. SO I feel that. Don't buy the hebichan point, given recent increase in activity which was absent d1. I'm also glad that you'd be willing to bus your scum partner if it comes down to the wire.

venmar, titus, change your votes, those wagons are not happening today

Venmar is nearly outed scum. I think you're townish but FMPOV nothing else should happen. Nothing else is happening either. The problem seems to be more of a) badic setup design or b) my failure to convey the obvious.

Town having a one shot rb and a global one shot rb makes no sense.

hmmmmmmmmmm..... urrrrrrg. I hate this fucking game so goddamn much. You are correct, it does make no sense for both a global rb and a town rb to happen. WITH THAT SAID, VENMAR HAS SAID HE WILL BE CONFIRMED TOMORROW, THUS, IF HE IS NOT, THEN WE AUTO-LYNCH. The problem in my mind will self-resolve tomorrow. So, I'm more motivated to lynch someone else today on the off chance that a) is the actuality with a chance at hitting different scum today if b) is true, That's my perspective. I don't think that what you are saying is wrong.

Idea: It might be a good idea if we designate 1 person to be the target of all our negatives.

an interesting idea. Could scum exploit it somehow though? i.e. kill the guy we choose in the night to prevent negative role claims being confirmed?

VOTE: Gamma emerald

Alright then.

Do you have any reason to suspect me yourself or are you just taking CooLDoG's logic as law because lolwillage

it's a good sheep dude. It's virtuous because you are scum.

Honestly if they say they're self resolving I'm inclined to just believe them

Plus both are actually somewhat responsive which is nice

Hebichan, Gamma, UT lynchpool
And where the fuck is Espeonage, did I miss him producing content recently

Why isn't Titus in your lynchpool
Look at Skrew's d1 play and tell me that isn't scum trying to further the town implosion

AGAIN, HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS?

1) VENMAR CONF D3
2) DELAYED FUCKING RB MEANS IT GOES THROUGH EVEN IF TITUS IS KILLED
3) ONE OF THE TWO IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. ON D3 WE WILL BE ABLE TO DETERMINE THIS, EITHER BY VENMAR'S CONFIRMATION OR A FLIP

you're oversimplifying, the two abilities are completely different, and i also have a damn roleblock. town can be given two of the same ability, there's no rule that says they can't.
do something productive now, Titus, or i'm going to think you're the scum counterpart to

me

.

fuck me.

[CooLDoG]

the odds of two rb's and a global rb are pretty low given the multi-ball and factional nature of how kills work.

[CooLDoG]

goddamn complex set-up speculation. Vax also isn't necessarily wrong. Although it depends on how much negative utility really is negative. Like, I don't see a delayed modifier as being really that bad (although the rb can't prevent certain situations).

[CooLDoG]

is this a bad time to remind everyone that i my targeted ability is a jailkeeper

I also have in my notes that CD slipped but I can't find it on re-look so I'll have a trawl. I think it had to do with trying to get people to think something about numbers that wasn't true but I might have been completely mental at midnight last night.

it's perfectly possible that I fucked up some sort of math with set-up theorizing. That area is not my strong suit.

[CooLDoG]

This is really icky. I feel like both wagons today are scum-driven. I'll obviously vote a nullread again to save myself again (unless Gamma has provably positive town utility), but this is getting kind of ridiculous.

Who are scum driving the wagons? I actually think there's a decent chance scum are waiting around for us to eat our own heads off given the lack of consolidation.

I have been saying this for a while. This also makes me think multi-ball is more likely than 3+1.

i'm holding out hope that you're not the compromise lynch tbh

the way it stands, that is you.

Feel like I'd be willing to lynch mollie for that vote. She has to know it's not going anywhere.

Plus SK-hunting is a huge mafia-tell.

yes, I agree, basically everything is wrong with that vote. But naturally, we aren't going to do anything about.

Feel like I'd be willing to lynch mollie for that vote. She has to know it's not going anywhere.

Plus SK-hunting is a huge mafia-tell.

lol, don't even.

I am not sk hunting,

you are the 1 who has been pushing that there is an sk in the game all day round. it looks like you are trying to make friends with them in a subtle but not so subtle way. a kingmaker lylo is typical of what both scum

and

an sk try to aim for cos it gives them both a higher chance of winning. and for as long as you have been playing this game you shld know this.

venmar does not strike me as grp scum so I am ruling that out.

he comes across as a loner and that shld tell you something

. he is NOT actively working with town, I don't even get the impression that he is even trying to find them.

this is the first thing that you have said all game that srsly gives me pause and makes me think that I might have been wrong about my read on you my friend.

your scum equity just went up several notches.

Just wanted to get on the same page here.

I feel kinda bad for this but I kinda wanna lynch Mathdino just so we can resolve his slot because like I don't see any way we

don't

always come back to him, and everyone screaming him down will be a major bother in the future.

NOW YOU FUCKING COME IN HERE TRYING TO BUS YOUR PARTNER. Thanks. Jesus, about fucking time.

I'm suspicious of Ven, but he is a pretty dumb lynch for today and will be much easier to sort out tomorrow.

also basically this.

SOMEONE START A FUCKING WAGON THAT I CAN HOP ONTO OR GET ON MINE.

[CooLDoG]

Gamma Emerald(3) ~ hebichan(11), CooLDoG(26), Varsoon(28)
Mathdino(2) ~ Espeonage(12), Sir Elton Hercules John(5)
Venmar(1) ~ Titus(11)
Varsoon(1) ~ Venmar(28)
Titus(1) ~ Gamma Emerald(25)
hebichan(1) ~ Mathdino(20)


Not Voting (3): Chara(17), pirate mollie(5), Vaxkiller(14)

@Titus: hebichan is a scumread of mine, Varsoon less so, Cooldog is the scum on my D1 wagon if there was even any scum at all (given that I'm townreading him, am thinking there was no scum).

Then UT would be the scum pushing my wagon today.

Ignoring Math's trash, BUT THE FUCKING VOTE COUNT IS ABYSMAL AND YA'LL SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THIS SHIT. WHEN DID VOTES START TO LOOK LIKE A SHOT-GUN SPREAD PATTERN? GOD DAMN IT. FUCKING GET YOUR VOTES OFF WAGONS THAT WILL GO NOWHERE. LIKE VENMAR, TITUS AND VARSOON. FUCk. Venmar and varsoon will confirm themeslevs and titus by proxy, so you are LITTERALLY ADVOCATING FOR A SUB-OPTIMAL TOWN PLAY. WTF??? Jesus. Ya'll suck. GET A FUCKING GRIP AND GET A WAGON GOING BEFORE DEAD-FUCKING-LINE

[CooLDoG]

you are a compromise for deadline reasons null read to me.

[CooLDoG]

Jesus christ.

VOTE: mollie

I'm not lynching Gamma. That was going to be a self-vote but I'm not a little bitch. If you're gonna lynch one of me/Gamma, lynch me and neverlynch him when I flip town.

vote: mathdino

[CooLDoG]

Math/gamma scum team. Let the record show I called it.

[CooLDoG]

Espeonage and Vaxkiller for scum on the wagon.
Hebi and Gamma for scum off of it.

I fucking agree on espe.

vote: espe

My negative night action did not resolve on him, so either I was blocked or some bullshit is afoot.

VOTE: Varsoon

Espeonage and Vaxkiller for scum on the wagon.
Hebi and Gamma for scum off of it.

fuck off with that, you quite clearly quickhammered
And btw I used my self-hatedizer so I'm hated today

what? Math was a clear consensus lynch that literally everyone was okay with. Yesterday people had trouble getting on any of the alt-wagons, deadline pressure was closing in, seemed to me like a descent play to lynch math. And in no way did varsoon "quick hammer". I mean, fuck, the guy had claimed.

We had 4.5 days left. And the fact that mollie was the l-1 makes me think it was coordinated.

well we're on the same page there. I have some good news for you bud.

hey mollie go ahead and try to vote me

you are also scummy for literally not playing the game for 2 days.

Are these all wild VC theories? I always thought scum was in the middle of a wagon.

I mean, the fact that the "3rd on the wagon" tell is a mainstay of the standard tells means it really is more of a wifom situation than anything else. Scum know that people generally read this way so they can be the bookends of a wagon to avoid this type of suspicion. With that said, I'm not sure if being on the mathdino wagon in a particular place is alignment indicative initself due to the fact that there was a large consensus on his lynch starting from d1 and the closing deadline and the inability for another wagon to form yesterday. With that said, we really ought to lynch from either of the two mislynch wagons due to the simple fact that scum have to be on them. AI prefer a lynch pool from yesterday's wagon personally speaking.

Varsoon, how do you figure?

Also if anyone hasnt figured it out yet, Venmar must have been a lightning rod because my negative went through (no PM to the contrary) and Sir Eltons still walking around talking! My negative was remove someone from one cycle of play.

Aha! So that explains the lack of second kill as well. I was thinking that over. And lightning rod seems really fitting, but honestly I was originally thinking mass watcher.

hmm... an interesting theory indeed.

[CooLDoG]

also, our win chances will decline pretty rapidly if we don't either lynch scum or get a cross kill this next night.

My negative night action did not resolve on him, so either I was blocked or some bullshit is afoot.

I mean if you were blocked you likely would have got refunded. Did you get refunded?

As to how hebichan got vanilla'd... I dunno. I wish venmar were alive so we knew the specifics.

I did not, this is points in favor of the lightning rod thesis. Well, I guess that's good for the town then.

[CooLDoG]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yeah, why the hell did my negative not resolve on espe then. Jesus, this fucking swingy-ass limited information role madness game

[CooLDoG]

I find all the lurkers attacking each other endearing. Any thoughts?

[CooLDoG]

I find all the lurkers attacking each other endearing. Any thoughts?

Who specifically?

mollie/chara/hebi

Although, hebi has picked up in recent times.


I'm down for lynching elton as I have said before

vote: sir elton

[CooLDoG]

Wait. How in the fuck does eape have either a post restriction or is town when posting no content fluff. I'ma gonna call espe scum. My vote will alternate betweem elton and him until a lynch is reached.

votes: espe

[CooLDoG]

yeah, basically titus is correct. CHara is just sheeping agreed upon town reads.

But yeah, either espe, elton, or one of the other lurker types. I read varsoon as town. I don't have a solid titus read yet. Mollie is not very impressive to me. vax and gamma are whatever at this point.

[CooLDoG]

because it should have been directed to venmar?

[CooLDoG]

Chara, elton and espe are scum. My vote goes on the wagon with the most votes for any of those 3. Sorry for not posting my usual content, my weekend was a shit-show.

[CooLDoG]

Chara, elton and espe are scum. My vote goes on the wagon with the most votes for any of those 3. Sorry for not posting my usual content, my weekend was a shit-show.

I'm with Elton that this is pretty nutty wrt Chara and Elton both being scum, and idk but I remember Espe having an interaction with one of those that disinclines me to think they're scum together

I mean, it's a multi ball or something like that, so idk what you guys are talking about.

Role PM says that the player controls my vote for the following Day Phase.
They receive a PM letting them know that they do.

and there is no town motivation for keeping secret who this person is.

Oh I see, so because she knows its only per day it seems to you like she did get the vote, instead of venmar getting it like we all assumed.

which would also be a very strange and inconsistent mechanic.

I do not find it at all strange that mollie does not have the vote given the vact that venmar was a lightning rod for negs last night. Which is sorta a double edge sword in my case.

Also, I'm willing to bet that there are a lot bullet proofs as passives in this set-up. Just have a hunch about that one. Multi-ball + role madness, and given my stupid negative, which was sorta burned, but ehh, maybe for the best.


BUT YEAH, Let's fucking lynch either espe or elton. Not feeling the mollie lynch based upon lack of getting varsoon's vote.

[CooLDoG]

vote: espe

that will be l-1

[CooLDoG]

I mean, honestly, go ahead and just do it chara. Like, the above post can't be from town.. His negative should have redirected. kill with fire.

[CooLDoG]

Okay. Deadline is ticking though, so make it quick

[CooLDoG]

Ya'll have 22 hours to lynch espe. My vote probably won't be able to be changed today. I have to teach logic, banter about heidegger, fuck some bitches, and take some names in real life, so I'm going to trust ya'll not to fuck up. Is that okay?

[CooLDoG]

what the actual fuck

[CooLDoG]

Godamn you stupid sons of bitches. What the fuck are you doing six goddamn hours before deadline. I don't understand what vaxx's point is. Why the hell he would not bring up his shit earlier in the goddamn day instead of at the end of it. If espe flips scum i might vote him for the irrlevant chain saw. Lynching varsoon is degenerate, because he confirms himself as town and by vax's logic makes ut scum. So what the fuck. Why is espe off the goddamn lynch train?

FUCKING DON"T FUCKING NO LYNCH TODAY. I SWEAR TO GOD I WILL PUNCH YOUR FACES IN. JEsus H fucking christ. This town this game. ALso, fuck the lurkers while we are at it. SO YOUR OPTIONS:
1) Lynch ESPE
2) Do the bullshit flash wagon and hope for the best.

Of the two options, PICK FUCKING ONE AND DON'T TRY THIS VOTE HOPPING BULLSHIT 6 FUCKING HOURS FROM THE DEADLINE.

[CooLDoG]

can't really poast today, super busy with work and personal life.

[CooLDoG]

I'll be back later. Just alive.

I think we should have everyone pick two players they do not want to lynch. Assuming multiball, that ought to give us a unique lay of the land.

better yet, everyone should pick two, or even just one player they want to lynch and then vote that person. if we cannot immediately come to a consensus on who that person should be would should have a reasoned discourse about it.

some might call this strategy "a game of mafia"

It's time for you to go.

vote: Sir Elton Hercules John

I f anyone doesn't see why stopping town discussion is bad in order to power lynch litterally anything... then idk any more.

[CooLDoG]

I'll do a fucking power read through of this game sometime this weekend... hopefully.

[CooLDoG]

lol "stopping town discussion"

your scumreads are more important than your townreads in MYLO, bucko

I mean, either going by poe or by scum reads, both lead to you being scumfuckery, so I don't know what you are talking about. "Let's just see if we can get quick consensus and lych someone"

[CooLDoG]

catching up, Hope the girl friend does not interrupt.

[CooLDoG]

okay, a scum gladiator would be fucking overpowered as shit in a multi-ball set-up. Especially considering the possible game states it leaves the town in. An SK would be a potential. That would make the set-up either a 3:3:1 or a 4:2:1, withhe lack of cross kills also points toward a higher probability of there being an sk, but someone who can do probabilities in their head should be able to answer this better. With that said, having an sk specific role block is strange. I would think it more likely for it to block vigs and sks as well (blocks non-scum killing roles).

[CooLDoG]

If anything I'm surprised cooldog never hit any scum.

That would have changed the game considerably. The fact cooldog was basically a second scum kill every night was a huge help. Bonus points that sk normally went for my secondary targets.

yeah, I didn't hit well this game. I should have probably killed ut earlier, that's a mistake. Also, I got bad vibes from mollie, but never actualized on them. Letting elton not get lynched was bad.