Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Ausuka]

ok
VOTE: CheekyTeeky

[Ausuka]

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

[Ausuka]

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

I think I'm being buddied.

was I wrong, Brian?

[Ausuka]

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

I think I'm being buddied.

was I wrong, Brian?

I'm town, I just don't think I've done anything worthy of a townread.

then why are you making remarks instead of voting me?

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka: why town Creature?

engaged Creature is town Creature, always.

[Ausuka]

I wonder how long mulch was waiting there to grab the pagetop. That was very fast.

[Ausuka]

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

I think I'm being buddied.

was I wrong, Brian?

I'm town, I just don't think I've done anything worthy of a townread.

then why are you making remarks instead of voting me?

Should I be voting you?

if you scumread me, which you claim to, it follows you should be voting me.

[Ausuka]

weak

VOTE: brian skies

[Ausuka]

VOTE: mulch

[Ausuka]

VOTE: mulch

actually this is boring.
VOTE: brian skies

[Ausuka]

mulch, do you automate the votecounts, or have you just been waiting for the opportunity to get a pagetop this whole time?

[Ausuka]

mulch, do you automate the votecounts

by this I mean, "is the process of getting pagetops automated?" I already know about the mathblade votecounter.
this isn't really relevant though

[Ausuka]

The votecounter abusal was funny at first, but now it's just getting silly.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: quick

[Ausuka]

Should I bother catching up?

[Ausuka]

I don't really think anything.

[Ausuka]

@Ausuka: why town Creature?

engaged Creature is town Creature, always.

this is extremely early to tell and feels like TMI to me

as someone who has a perfect record of reading Creature (and it's not like I'm the only one who can read him), you're wrong.

[Ausuka]

there's no way I'm going to actually respond to/analyse 24 entire pages at this point so I'm just going to respond to things where I remember my name being brought up.

VOTE: mulch

actually this is boring.
VOTE: brian skies

and now this. I don't like ausuka's progression. calls brian town, brian wonders if he is being pocketed, which is inherently a towny thought to have, and after an interaction in which brian does not appear particularly wolfy ausuka is voting brian? that's something now isn't it. not that I like brian's posts otherwise, but this ausuka progression is wolfy. townreads from nowhere, OMGUSing when convenient. kinda wolfy?

this isn't the first post I voted brian in. I just decided that messing with the votecounter was a silly thing to do. Brian's read was scummy because he painted it like he was scumhunting and accusing me of things, but didn't actually try to push me and kept his RVS vote, and he backtracked when I pressed him on it. I don't see why townlean -> null -> scumlean is "bad progression."

Ausuka is a scumlean

you're mean

also, quick is probably town now.
UNVOTE:

[Ausuka]

it was a joke.

[Ausuka]

that depends on your other reads.

[Ausuka]

idk. i kinda like the tone, i dislike the brigand vote.

[Ausuka]

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up, by the time I'm done there'll be 34 more pages. I don't really like centipede and quick wagons so I'm gonna start my own.
VOTE: tchill

[Ausuka]

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up, by the time I'm done there'll be 34 more pages. I don't really like centipede and quick wagons so I'm gonna start my own.
VOTE: tchill

y tho?

his hop on centipede was scummy.

[Ausuka]

ok

[Ausuka]

hi. i'm apathetic and lazy and i've given up on completely catching up, by the time I'm done there'll be 34 more pages. I don't really like centipede and quick wagons so I'm gonna start my own.
VOTE: tchill

y tho?

his hop on centipede was scummy.

y tho?

it's a self-evident truth

[Ausuka]

tbh I missed pan's post. they can be scum too.

pedit: ausuka is town

[Ausuka]

seriously though, tchill is a hard logic-based player from my experience in floral. feels hard to believe that he would hop on the wagon like that. i mean, the wagon hop still scummy in and of itself, but that makes tchill scummier.

[Ausuka]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

This is Scum.

Took me literally less than a minute to meta dive this read.

i had literally just came back to the site at that point. of course I'm going to change my playstyle over time. i don't see your point.

[Ausuka]

also, this is the only game I've played since coming to the site that has reached 35 pages within less than a day. nothing else even comes close.

[Ausuka]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

This is Scum.

Took me literally less than a minute to meta dive this read.

i had literally just came back to the site at that point. of course I'm going to change my playstyle over time. i don't see your point.

Looks at join date...

i thought you already knew my original account?

[Ausuka]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

This is Scum.

Took me literally less than a minute to meta dive this read.

i had literally just came back to the site at that point. of course I'm going to change my playstyle over time. i don't see your point.

Looks at join date...

i thought you already knew my original account?

That makes zero difference honestly.

That was on page 5 people... page 5.

exactly. if it was page 34, I wouldn't have bothered.

[Ausuka]

felt like you were trying to be pro-town without trying to look pro-town.
no idea why you're trying to hold my page 2 reads to this high of a standard.

[Ausuka]

I don't play larges that often. When I do I try to approach them normally. Larges do have the side-effect of being more likely to turn into civ mafia v2, though.

[Ausuka]

hey Quick, I know this is probably news to you, but some people actually sleep, and can't post on, or read, mafiascum during that time.

[Ausuka]

Should I bother catching up?

yes, I posted this when I woke up in the morning. I then went to school, because that's another thing I have to do, and again, I can't post on or read mafiascum during that time. this isn't rocket science.

[Ausuka]

greyice and brian and maybe pan are scummy.

[Ausuka]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

[Ausuka]

Notes so far;
38 from Maria is really reachy.
44 feels pretty scummy too. 59/63 is a huge overreaction to the push at that point.
I townread Cedrick and katherine.
Creature hasn't really posted enough to be sorted yet. If this keeps going for a while he can be town.
What kts did can come from either alignment and I haven't found anything to sort him with.

Extra-Special Townbloc of Happy Friends

Ausuka, Cedrick

Candidates For Promotion

Katherine

Watchlist For Meaniness

brassherald, Creature, Gamma Emerald, Mumble, Killthestory, implosion

Wanted for Bullying and General Sad Crimes

MariaR, Tchill13

VOTE: Tchill

This is Scum.

Took me literally less than a minute to meta dive this read.

Ausuka, are you an alt?

well, this is the account I use permanently now, but yeah.

[Ausuka]

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

[Ausuka]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

Because this type of play tends to get players townread, despite all logical reasons otherwise. A fact I have used to my advantage before.

~The Observer

Why does that make Quick scum for playing this way though? It's not like town can't do these things?

pedit: I was talking to quick, not you, pano.
and @quick, I never said I townread cheeky. I said my read was balanced, because I liked her tone, but I didn't like the vote on brigand. and I said this after I ISO'd her, because I was asked to give my thoughts on her.

[Ausuka]

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

I'm not.

Then I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

[Ausuka]

kicking up a huge fuss in the thread over nothing and being a distraction from any and all play

and overall annoyance with playstyle)

Why do these things make Quick scum to you?

Because this type of play tends to get players townread, despite all logical reasons otherwise. A fact I have used to my advantage before.

~The Observer

Why does that make Quick scum for playing this way though? It's not like town can't do these things?

[1]

pedit: I was talking to quick, not you, pano.

[2]

and @quick, I never said I townread cheeky. I said my read was balanced, because I liked her tone, but I didn't like the vote on brigand. and I said this after I ISO'd her, because I was asked to give my thoughts on her.

1: Because it pays off later in the game. If quick isn't lynched today, he will coast to endgame.
2: My bad

~The Observer

well yes, that does mean that if Quick is scum, he's more likely to win, but why do you think it makes Quick more likely to be scum in the first place? because right now I think quick is the perfect lynchbait, and I don't like your push on him.

[Ausuka]

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

I'm not.

Then I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

You don't have to. Just please answer my questions and I can either clear you or condemn you.

I answered your question.

[Ausuka]

are you seriously trying to say I'm lying about having to sleep and go to school? really?

I'm not.

Then I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

You don't have to. Just please answer my questions and I can either clear you or condemn you.

I answered your question.

Who asked you to ISO Cheeky?

Greyice asked me for a read, and to answer, I had to ISO cheeky.

[Ausuka]

well, this is the account I use permanently now, but yeah.

That posting style Quick quoted looks familiar to me. Would I be accurate if I said we've played together before?

Yeah. We played together in alisae's beneath the mask game, where I was in the chikoritas hydra with echovision, and we were masons with davesaz.

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

I know what role you are.

i, uh, haven't really been softing???

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

I know what role you are.

i, uh, haven't really been softing???

Give me your top 5 TRs

I can clear people based off this.

uh, ok?
{Creature, quick, hopkirk, nero, beeboy}

[Ausuka]

ok

[Ausuka]

let's go here?
VOTE: Panoptican

[Ausuka]

yes

[Ausuka]

well, this is the account I use permanently now, but yeah.

That posting style Quick quoted looks familiar to me. Would I be accurate if I said we've played together before?

Yeah. We played together in alisae's beneath the mask game, where I was in the chikoritas hydra with echovision, and we were masons with davesaz.

Heh. Not my first guess but I'll take it.

just out of curiosity, who was your first guess?

[Ausuka]

Ausuka HI. Why am I town.

your tone is very towny, and you're playing like you did in floral.

pedit: ok I like that!
VOTE: tchill13

[Ausuka]

Nero is clear and so is hopkirk.

What about Beeboy?

VOTE: Pan

Not sure but we can throw in cheeky for sure.

As town?

yeah. Your all clear.

how are all these people clear?

I mean I'm townreading all of them but why are you clearing them?

I don't want to say because Scum could take advantage of that. Just trust me on that.

Bullshit.

I don't think we should push him on this. there is an anti-claim mechanic.

[Ausuka]

well, this is the account I use permanently now, but yeah.

That posting style Quick quoted looks familiar to me. Would I be accurate if I said we've played together before?

Yeah. We played together in alisae's beneath the mask game, where I was in the chikoritas hydra with echovision, and we were masons with davesaz.

Heh. Not my first guess but I'll take it.

just out of curiosity, who was your first guess?

Alisae, but I'm not sure why.

Oh, lol. I don't think I really post like alisae

[Ausuka]

i'm completely confused right now

[Ausuka]

because I don't really townread her like you were implying before.

[Ausuka]

idk about thor.

The Auska one, as described, makes sense, I don't see it as outside Auska townplay, but it also seems a perfectly reasonable idea to lynch her over. I'd help lynch her.

this confuses me, but I wouldn't say it's necessarily from scum? what do you think?

Tchill wagon is glorious.

[Ausuka]

why is maria town, quick?

[Ausuka]

tchill is still scummy.

[Ausuka]

{Creature, quick, hopkirk, nero, beeboy}

Why do you townread Hopkirk?

good tone + acting like he did in a town game. I believe I've already said this.

[Ausuka]

Admittedly self centric, but It's painfully obvious there's a potential wagon hanging over me right now and I get the feeling Thor's waiting for it.

He called his initial vote of me a sheep.
His early townreads (Torn/Quick/BB) don't add anything since they're common.
His defence of Quick was after the quick wagon played its course.
His scum leans on me/Screen don't add anything.

661
-he's now got me as more scummy without explaining. Ignored a request to explain.
-only gives reads on people Torn asked about and adds utterly nothing to any of the reads.
-Slight reasoning given on Screen but doesn't actually move forward to vote screen. Could have potentially moved things forward but hung on me (non wagon that could bloom) instead for unclear reasons.

737- Doesn't add anything to Spiffeh's Pan read. Urges a move to me again without giving any reason (hence no reason to expect anyone to move, hence no forward momentum from Thor).

1080- An iffy reasoning to not vote Brian that doesn't really say anything about

Brian

1082- No original thoughts.


I'll admit I don't know his town meta, but it feels like he's added nothing and he's waiting for something. I don't really say any original thought/effort/proactiveness there.
I think I remember hearing Thor's name in a list of really good players back in like 2014 when I was new and while I don't know how he plays town, this isn't what I'd expect.

this post is super towny.

[Ausuka]

That justification seems very weak. What about the post is "super townie"?

it looks genuinely uninformed. like, I don't see someone who knows every alignment writing that.

[Ausuka]

That justification seems very weak. What about the post is "super townie"?

it looks genuinely uninformed. like, I don't see someone who knows every alignment writing that.

All he's doing in that post is making a case on me.
How does that look genuinely uninformed?

If you don't see it now, I doubt I'll be able to convince you tbh. It looks like the kind of thing town comes up with when they're actually trying to find scum. I think scum would be more likely to push easier targets for reasons that are easier to think of.

Where's the duck?

[Ausuka]

OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.

Not sure if anyone's already said this, but... no.

[Ausuka]

@Toran/Nero: please townread each other.
VOTE: Panoptican
First five Tchill votes are still nice. It gets a bit worse as it goes on.
Hey Tchill, I asked you one question and you didn’t answer it. I dislike it when people don’t answer my questions. (ok Brian)
Thor’s Screen interaction isn’t great.
I’ll sheep Chara/Elli unless it’s on a strong townread.

I do kinda like this vote but I don't see why we need to derail a perfectly good tchill wagon.

[Ausuka]

poor Ausuka

I think the way centipede handled elli's SR is towny.

[Ausuka]

I didn't mean to quote that but ok.

[Ausuka]

If you don't see it now, I doubt I'll be able to convince you tbh. It looks like the kind of thing town comes up with when they're actually trying to find scum. I think scum would be more likely to push easier targets for reasons that are easier to think of.

I can understand the concept of scum seeking easier fish to fry (though would suggest since I'm gunning for him he's at least slightly obligated to engage).
But how does the 'genuinely uninformed' part play into that idea? They appear to be different things, no?

Did you just mean 'scum wouldn't attack Thor, they'd pick an easier target' when you said 'genuinely uninformed'?

No, that's not what I was going for. The case feels like it'd be too overdone if he was scum? Like, I find the idea of scum actually going through your posts and trying to find a narrative like that that's kinda stretchy and not convincing very unlikely.

[Ausuka]

That's what I'd expect scum to do.

Eh, ok. Personally I'd expect scum to try and find a case that's convincing and would lead to a lynch, not try and make a post like that. Like, it's a lot of effort to put in for a post that basically gives you 0 reward.

I'd expect town to go 'wait a minute, this is over reaching and silly' at some stage.

meh.

[Ausuka]

i've given up trying to catch up. the little i have seen form ausuka seems scum motivated.

a.k.a I saw people scumreading Ausuka and I know she's fairly lynchbaity so I'm going to hop on the wagon and hope I don't get lynched.

[Ausuka]

i gave my own reason. how big is your wagon? is there a wagon? its just me and maria atm lol. what a wagon

Your reasoning kinda switched around from "what I've seen from her seems scum-motivated" to "I've seen various posts from her that give me scum-vibes" to "she's scum because she was on wagons with 3 votes."

[Ausuka]

And just because the votes aren't there yet doesn't mean they can't go there. I seem to be around a scumlean for most people. I'm sure you noticed that, too.

[Ausuka]

theyre all the same thing lol.

No they're not?

[Ausuka]

you voting multiple people cant be scum motivated or give me scum vibes?

"scum-motivated" and "scum vibes" are DEFINITELY very different concepts, and no, me placing some votes on something that can barely even be called a wagon isn't that scum-motivated, and it definitely isn't a "scum vibes" kind of deal.

[Ausuka]

worst is probably scum btw.

[Ausuka]

It doesn't come off as genuine imo it comes off as brushing you off.

^^^ scum.

[Ausuka]

Townpool A: Creature/Beeboy/Cheeky/Quick/Brian/Nero/Torn/Ausuka
Townpool B: Brigand/Screen/Gorkington
POE pool (including neutrals): Thor/Spiffeh/Bins/TheWorst/Maria/GreyICE/Panopticon/Centipede/TChill

If you are in my townpools, please help me shrink my POE pool.

I think centipede is towny out of those players.

[Ausuka]

IDK about thor, I'm not good at reading players like him, but I don't think he's been scummy, and I think I remember reading that he was playing to his town meta, so I wouldn't be comfortable lynching thor today. Nero is towny, the arrogance (maybe this isn't the best word to describe what he's been doing, but I don't know what to say instead) and aggressiveness feels like town!nero. I would lynch pan before greyice.

[Ausuka]

wait, I thought that post was asking me to give reads on thor and nero, since I was the last one who posted. sorry if I interpreted that wrong.

[Ausuka]

ausuka is town

idk why people don't like the tchill wagon anymore. he's still scummy.

[Ausuka]

but lynch that ausuka iso am i right

my ISO is beautiful.

[Ausuka]

I would vote pan, probably. I feel like there's probably scum in {maria, bins} but I kinda dislike how fast the maria wagon formed on basically nothing?

[Ausuka]

how about you address my scumread on ausuka rather than getting hung up about how i said it

This makes no sense considering that you literally just made a blank read.

[Ausuka]

how about you address my scumread on ausuka rather than getting hung up about how i said it

This makes no sense considering that you literally just made a blank read.

blank like


YOUR ISO

no!

and great you literally come in and say "scum in the two people voting me"

Am I wrong?

[Ausuka]

but maria isnt really pushing you with force either and it doesnt really look motivated by scum

I've been fairly lynchbaity this game. I would expect at least one or two scum to be pushing on me here.

And if you're town and maria's scum I was still right, so

[Ausuka]

I've been fairly lynchbaity this game.

that isnt a fun defence

I'm not defending against anything, I'm just saying why scum are likely to be pushing me from my point of view.

[Ausuka]

Like, I mean, tchill is pretty much lockscum, so that's at least 1 scum on me already. You and maria have both been kinda moderately scummy, and I've seen people randomly throw out TRs on you.

[Ausuka]

1. his early hop on centipede is very scummy.
2. I've played with town!tchill and this feels wildly different in many ways.
3. posts like 1217, 1273, and 1277 sound really fake. 1471 also sounds really off to me tonally.
4. his reasoning for scumreading me has jumped around from "the little I've seen seems scum-motivated" to "I've got scum-vibes" and then saying that I'm scum for being on some 3-player wagons.
5. when I confront him about this, he says that these are all the same thing.
6. 1792 is complete bullshit. he basically dodges the actual question by saying "you're getting buddied!!!" and then says me townreading hopkirk means I'm brushing him off.
7. there was a good wagon on Tchill and it kinda just completely dissapeared because ???

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

I'm tired and I need to think now.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: panoptican
Maria's scumflip makes tchill a lot townier IMO and I think I prefer this.

[Ausuka]

yeah, I'm here. I just don't have much to say. Greyice is the current big thing but he's null to me. I still think pan is probably more likely scum than the other wagons.

[Ausuka]

better an useless lurker than an useless spammer!

deadline is in 10 hours, so;
VOTE: Greyice

[Ausuka]

Ok, greyice it is.

[Ausuka]

Ok, greyice it is.

Why?

srceenplay has claimed the kill on maria and has not been counterclaimed? and greyice is the only other wagon that can get to a lynch?

[Ausuka]

I mean I agree that there are no real crumbs and I'd find this scummy normally but since we know 100% one townie killed Maria it is incredibly suboptimal to lynch someone claiming it without a CC.

[Ausuka]

Ok, greyice it is.

Why?

srceenplay has claimed the kill on maria and has not been counterclaimed? and greyice is the only other wagon that can get to a lynch?

Anyone who is town with a kill ability that bothers to counterclaim is an idiot - so lack of a counterclaim is meaningless.

Then he's dead if he's not the real killer, and we don't need to lynch him anyway? I don't get your point here.

Lack of Srceenplay actually calling it a claim is a bigger issue, because it means he's softing it, and I'll suggest he's softing it to try to fish for counterclaims.

I'm taking that as meaning that he's not hardclaiming his other abilities, which is reasonable since no CC or kill means he's conftown here without having to reveal to the mafia anything else he can do.

Like I get if he's town his play has been very weak but I don't think that's a reason to lynch him here.

[Ausuka]

Then he's dead if he's not the real killer, and we don't need to lynch him anyway? I don't get your point here.

My core point was to point out my opinion of the anti-town nature of you harping on no counterclaim as evidence of anything.
My secondary point is more conceptual - insomuch as I do see value in a lynch regardless, especially since it is preferable to lynch a scum than to lynch a town even if a scum will be shot after the town lynch.

The point remains that there is no direct evidence contradicting the claim, and if he's scum, that will become apparent, because whether it be by CC or kill, town can prove his claim false.

I'm taking that as meaning that he's not hardclaiming his other abilities, which is reasonable since no CC or kill means he's conftown here without having to reveal to the mafia anything else he can do.

Like I get if he's town his play has been very weak but I don't think that's a reason to lynch him here.

I have explained (ad naseum) a scum case on him - at least pretend to be aware of it when you straw man my case into being 'he's anti-town'.

I'm not discussing the case? I don't remember a case, but I can read through it if you want me to.

So you think he has hardclaimed the kill?
Because I don't see that - where do you?

Elli you are acting real dense.
I wonder how Maria died?

I take this as a direct claim, because it basically is, and if he tries to weasel his way out of that, I will vote him.

[Ausuka]

I take this as a direct claim, because it basically is, and if he tries to weasel his way out of that, I will vote him.

That is swell.
Apparently I have now direct claimed too - it is awesome.

the thing I quoted is not even similar to "who killed maria?" it's a sarcastic way of claiming.

[Ausuka]

I did a "claim" in the same manner he did.

no, you really didn't.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: Srceenplay
is preferable to no lynch

[Ausuka]

thanks for modding, mulch/nsg! and apologies to the rest of the playerlist for being terrible.