Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[Quick]

Oh, My experience says differently. See I come from playing on MU where they do this sort of Wagon analysis a lot. Why would a site (dedicated to Mafia) spend so much time on something that isn't indicative of alignment?

Cool, then say that rather than these inane arguments, disagreeing or agreeing with his analysis is what we want to see.

I personally agree with them that the speed of the wagon doesn't change the alignment possibilities of the wagonee, I think scum are just as likely to get quick-wagoned as town.

I do, however, think that the speed of the wagon says something about the people on it and off it. It's on process though so I'll leave that discussion til later.

The key thing here is:
a) Do you think the speed of the wagon is indicative of mutant?
b) Do you think the speed of the wagon is indicative of the voters?
c) Do you think the speed of the wagon is indicative of the non-voters?

Feel free not to elaborate on b and c, I won't for a while. But I think what's happening is you think (b) and (c) are "yes", and Mom is saying "no" to (a).

It's not speed as in time. It's speed as in consecutive votes on a single player. Does that clear it up? Also, I can argue that the probability for the wagon to be all Town is not good considering you would have to have a bunch of Town all SRing a player at the same time for the same reason when there is not a guilty on that person when not everyone is even itt engaging in that conversation. It's very likely that given the ratio of 3:10 that if the wagon has more than 3 consecutive votes in a row on one player that at least one of those players is Scum. This is amplified by votes being placed on a person in a short time because the more people that are not engaging in that read the more likely that there are more Scum on the wagon because in general Scum are by nature opportunistic and in general Town do not have a lot of synergy. When there is a wagon that appears virtually out of nowhere this tells me that it's likely Scum want that wagon to become a thing. That is why I said it was a Scum driven wagon.

[Quick]

Right, so you're saying because the speed of the wagon indicates the voters contain scum, that means that mutant is less likely to be scum?

Yes. Because like I said, Scum are opportunistic and Town lack synergy.

[Quick]

Votecount 1-12

mutantdevle

--

(5)

: Iconeum, pinturicchio, MOMOMEN, Oxy, ceejayvinoya

Oxy

----------

(1)

: pisskop

the worst

----

(1)

: Alonzo

Iconeum

------

(2)

: the worst, Sando

Sando

--------

(1)

: Quick

Not Voting

---

(3)

: randomidget, mutantdevle, Not_Mafia

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2018-04-24 12:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- pisskop replaces Korina.
- Iconeum has been prodded.

It only grew 3 votes, 1 being us.

I'm confused why Oxy is on that wagon actually... and Ceej as well... and you could be Scum just pushing shit without explaining anything.

[Quick]

Why is my vote confusing you? Happy to clear things up.

Can you say why you SR Devle like at least 4 pages ago?

[Quick]

What do you suggest then, Quick??? Could you stop talking and talking and talking and talking and talking and...


...and talking and talking and start gamesolving? Because you're not helping, at all. You know that a lot of people have replaced out because of how awful the discussions of this game has been right? Do you acknowledge that?

I'm in too many games so expect my post count to drop.

[Quick]

quick, can i ask how old you are btw? this isn't in a rude way or anything i think it'll help me understand you

10+ years older than you. Why?

[Quick]

quick, can i ask how old you are btw? this isn't in a rude way or anything i think it'll help me understand you

10+ years older than you. Why?

You don't know how old I am, but sure, make it passive aggressive. Because I am trying to put an age to your face, because you give me Mathblade like vibes and learning more about Mathblade made me much more tolerant of them though I still don't like playing with 'em.

I was not being passive aggressive. I can tell. Does that answer your question?

[Quick]

Why is my vote confusing you? Happy to clear things up.

Can you say why you SR Devle like at least 4 pages ago?

First, I like the hydra's understanding of Mutantdevle's read list.

But the reason I voted was Mutantdevle's interaction with me in posts 1000-1006.

I summarized the reasoning here:

Spoiler:

I'd probably vote Icon if there was explicitly a case on him. Alternatively, if Oxy was on it then I'd be town reading the wagon enough to join it.

This implies that you had just inspected the wagon against your read list.

You joining the Icon wagon in it's current state would reach that threshold for me where I town read the wagon enough to join it myself.

You again give off the impression that you understand the composition of this wagon.

And you were clearly aware of NM

You would be okay putting it at L-1 with NM having just signaled with his vote?

Oh shit... No, I wouldn't. I would, however, be comfortable placing intent to hammer if you and not_mafia were on the wagon.

But then, this... I don't like this at all, especially since it's all wrapped up in posts meant to show that you are really paying attention to wagon composition.

VOTE: mutantdevle

Dis, why is this a bad thing? Hey people who I think are scummy are on the wagon...that makes me dubious. Why is that bad logic?

His whole post is "Look at how I'm analyzing the wagon to decide if it's likely a good wagon or not. Isn't that townie?" but he couldn't have actually analyzed the wagon because then he would know who and how many votes were on there.

And he says this is normal for him

but for whom is faking wagon analysis a town tell?

OK I am bad with pages.

Tell me where you first SR Mutant.

[Quick]

When I did my last reads list, I never got around to evaluating Mutantdevle because lazy.

So he's in need of a read through.

But the interaction I linked is very scummy.

And I like Momo's understanding of Mutantdevle's read list.

tl;dr: Post 1000 began the scum read.

K, thanks.

FTR, I can kinda see what duck was saying about your reads list being wonky. I questioned your reads list and you barely commented on that. Then I made the case that you are just playing the TR game and later you debunked that. Then with you being the third vote on them, I am reevaluating you.

[Quick]

quick plays a few games on mu and suddenly he's from there lmao.

I bet I joined there before you. Kekekekekek

[Quick]

I didn't post the above, but it literally says the games he linked so I'm not sure what links you're asking for

My 1060 lists two that I think are town that at least conform to this one in the overarticulating play-style. I'll admit to not being a good meta-reader, but I think it's reasonable to ask for more than "this conforms to his wolf rather than town" when examples are readily available.

I'll let my better half reply because hes the one who said it.

overarticulating without a firm stance seems like devle's mo. reads are very person dependant. i don't see it as a problem with some players but with others, i do. wishy washy reads tend to indicate wolves regardless.

quick plays a few games on mu and suddenly he's from there lmao.

I bet I joined there before you. Kekekekekek

making me a relevant crux of your argument when i never said i was from mu either reflects on the arguments you make in the game of mafia, too.

Should I have said I was from PerC? IDK why you think I am not from there when pretty much no one is?

[Quick]

Awwwwwoooo

thats my wolf Howl

Fair enough.

VOTE: Alonzo

[Quick]

That's cool tho, I don't really know much about... Err little Asian children's cartoons either

I got this avatar from the mods on the site as an April fools joke. Otherwise it would be this:



I've only ever seen actual wolves make those kind of posts so that is why I voted you.

[Quick]

@wolves, please focus on posting more and being moe affirmable in spreading doubt within the town. we town have a lot of presence right now and have already done well to lock a few people as town. spreading doubt in our reads and setting up mislynches will be beneficial for you as we enter endgame. please don't forget about the importance of day 1.

This on the other hand is something I pretty much would never think comes from Scum.

I'm willing to work with you but every time I hear someone say I am bad at this game it makes me want to tell them to fuck off.

[Quick]

so where are you at, quick?

With what?

[Quick]

so where are you at, quick?

With what?

scumreads

Ask me about my TRs. My SRs are garbage at this stage of the game.

[Quick]

RN Eddie head is about at

{Quick, Sando} - and by the way, if NM is scum Quick is still hard town.
{Oxy, Piss} - If Mutant and TW end up being town, Oxy is likely scum but I don't want him to be I love him </3
{NM, Pintu} - townreads for garbage reasons. Mostly just gut ping town.
{random} - null, but I want to call this slot town for no reason.
{CJ}
{TW, Ico, Alonzo, Mutant} - kill this pool with fire and if it doesn't have at least 2 of the scum i'll be very surprised

In your bottom bracket i'd be putting the 4-some of Mutant/Sando/Pintu/Alonzo.

Pintu I read as town. Mostly because of how genuine his posts sound. Not really because of the content.

So are you scumreading me or townreading me? Inconsistency is pretty scummy, you know... Because scum has to fake scumreads, while town just say what they are thinking

So the real question is why people are looking at him for Rising Star?

[Quick]

uh who's being looked at for Rising Star

I think there is a TvS in the worst/oxy.

why and which of MOMO's reads do you dislike?

Ice, by some people.

[Quick]

Mutant prolly Town here. I like what he is laying down and I find it unlikely he has this good of content as Scum. That's my read atm.

[Quick]

That's why it's difficult for me to believe that town!mutantdevle would fail to make that connection when analyzing the wagon

These reads are usually garbage ftr.

[Quick]

the amount of times that i've heard a player say "you can't read me like any other players lol." that's exactly the point of meta, you're not another player. you are you, and that makes you special. it just doesn't make you lynch immune lmao.

- kts

he's doing self meta... Prove him wrong.

[Quick]

the amount of times that i've heard a player say "you can't read me like any other players lol." that's exactly the point of meta, you're not another player. you are you, and that makes you special. it just doesn't make you lynch immune lmao.

- kts

he's doing self meta... Prove him wrong.

i already did lol. his meta is to not make definitive scumreads as wolf, and you can clearly see in his last post he includes not one. i'm glad he spewed his townreads though.

checkmate.

I do not accept "Read this whole ISO from this game and tell me that's not Scum" sorry not sorry.

[Quick]

don't think i said that.

-kts

I asked for specific examples and you refused to give a single one.

[Quick]

In no particular order:

Piss
Pint
Despite all Oxy
Mutant

[Quick]

Is Piss by virtue of a Korina read?
or did you find his opening towny?

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

pedit: good post...he refuses to do anything townie ://

If I am going to TR Ico, it's going to be for the same reason I TR pint. They are trying to make content. Most people don't get it because they have no idea how powerful creating content actually is. Ico just hasn't posted enough to earn that TR, but Pint's tinfoil theories can't come from Scum.

[Quick]

As a general rule I agree about tinfoil theories. The problem is he's really not basing his content around much fact currently. Feels more like trying to get towncred by being profound, more than committing to his theories..

What you have to look for in the tin foil is Town thought process and Pint is ripe with it. He can't fake shit that well. It's to believable as weird as that sounds.

[Quick]

@Alonzo, What is your read on Duck? Why did it change?

[Quick]

@Quick

What happens when you apply the piss logic to the other quieter roles? do they seem towny too?

It really has nothing to do with post count at all.

Weird angles win games. Simple as that.

[Quick]

Shame my MOMO read isnt more popular.

Im gonna flesh it out a bit

The think is... If you get NKed, I look at your read like a hawk.

[Quick]

Notice how the hydra stops when im around?

That flip to eddie, the sudden list and long heartfelt speech, that didnt ring any alarm bells with you guys last night?

I also have some serious problems with MOMO. Not backing up a single stance is making me hate that slot.

[Quick]

Ladder of town reads down to scum reads:

{Oxy, Sando}
{Quick, the worst}
{Alonso}
{MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia, randommidget, Iconeum}
{Ceejay}
{Korina, Pintu}

What did Alonzo do that puts him higher than half the player list? Why is korina still at the bottom despite the fact that there is nothing to read on her for days now (if you have something earlier in the game that points to her being scum, I'd like to see it)? Do you have anything more concrete on Pintu than "my gut says so"? Also would like to see something on why The_Worst is a tr.

Point out where I've been critical of other people's readlists?

1. His interactions and criticisms of the worst
2. For the very reason that there had been nothing to read for days.
3. RVS scum claim, the shit logic/case against Quick and the slight scum hunting.
^^ Just to say, why are you only now questioning/criticising my read on Korina when it's been nothing higher than a scum lean all game. This just screams opportunistic scum from you.
4. No
5. Because he seems to have a town attitude and has been consistently townie posting throughout the game. However, other's points about him have made me doubt him enough to have this read as purely a lean rather than a full town read.
^^ Also again, why only question this now and not the multiple occasions throughout the game where I have stated my town read/lean on the worst. You're just trying to give the impression that you REALLY think I'm scummy to justify your position on my wagon.

1. Why don't you believe him then? You think alonzo is wrong about the worst?
2. Are you saying that being busy IRL and lurking is AI?
3. Rvs scum claim??? NAI. Quick vote? He said himself that it was an rxn test.
4. Too bad.
5. Define his town attitude? The way he helps town? The worst practically said earlier that being helpful is NAI for him.

I don't have to justify my vote. I was sheeping momomen like I said earlier. You can't judge me for that since you tried to sheep too

I've remained quiet on CJ for ~raisins~ but I like this post a lot.

[Quick]

In no particular order:

Piss
Pint
Despite all Oxy
Mutant

So, Quick, since you said you have a good track record with TRs, I'm going to make an effort here. Have you played with Mutant scum? It doesn't shock me a more competent player seems townie in a game with a bunch of completely useless slots.

-ed

I have not played with Mutant Scum and this doesn't matter until you list examples that this is his Scum play.

[Quick]

Okay. Explain how

How are you going to force people to explain when you don't?

[Quick]

I'm starting to come around to Alonzo!Town here.

[Quick]

I'm starting to come around to Alonzo!Town here.

but im so nub =(

It's your flurry of activity when everyone else isn't posting much. That's a Townie thing to do, man.

[Quick]

@ quick

thoughts on Ico

I am getting less sure on him since they said they would be active today and haven't been.

I was reading their play as trying to produce content because of the weird angles they were taking and I kinda liked their quick vote on me and then off me onto someone else.

Basically I think I was tin foiling that slot Town too much I think. atm they are null.

[Quick]

Hows the Computer Fix coming along

@RandomMidget?

Give them like 3 days to catch up IMO.

[Quick]

I guess I am OK lynching Ico because they have done nothing all game and said they would do stuff. Also, enough people have made a stance on them one way or another for it to be a reasonably good lynch for info.

[Quick]

@MOD,

Can we get a VC please?

No. - Math

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

U sorta feel like Ico is TSTBS.. But that is kinda tinfoily.

[Quick]

UNVOTE:

I

sorta feel like Ico is TSTBS.. But that is kinda tinfoily.

I

EBWOP

[Quick]

TSTBS

Whats this?

Too Scummy to be Scum.

[Quick]

i am still here. not really feeling too well today, but i can offer that if ico flips town mutant and alonzo are spewed wolf.

I'm going with Alonzo as second most scummy regardless and most likely partner. What part of mutant says him being on Ico!town is particularly bad?

he never mentions ico in his iso but suddenly wants to hammer? thats always wolf motivated.

I've been known to have a lack of progression as Town because I am not always saying itt what I am thinking about...

[Quick]

With 5 days left, I think the active lurker is the more +ev wagon to be on right now.

Plenty of time to switch to the duck if Iconeum does start to reek of town.

I think the duck is Town for ~reasons~.

[Quick]

VOTE: Iconeum

OMG FU.

[Quick]

NM probably Town for that hammer regardless of how Ico flips. Kinda hard to explain so I don't want to, but will if really pressed on this.

[Quick]

huh

Personally, I think this is feigning ignorance.

EBWOP: N_M

always

reads the thread.

Watching. Waiting. Anticipating.

I see what you did there.

Blink 182. Don't think I didn't notice.

[Quick]

why is it lolhammer just because NM did it?

Maybe he has a strong Scumlean like the rest of this wagon?

NM probably thought it would be more effective to hammer on Ico since most people had made a stance on them one way or another and he probably didn't want to see the wagon collapse and end up on someone else that would've given a shit ton less info.

[Quick]

So... I had TRs on both Duck and Ico...

What do people think of that?

[Quick]

Let's do it!

VOTE: Sando

Choomotherfuckingchooo

[Quick]

Wrong player bruv

No, You're on the wrong player.

[Quick]

okay time to look at how many times ceejay mentioned ico, and their supposed reason for hopping onto ico. the same applies to random.

the worst kill implies off wagon scum so we're looking at
mutantdevle-(2): Iconeum, pinturicchio
Not Voting--(4): mutantdevle, pisskop, Alonzo, Quick
a pool of these guys too. can clear quick and pint i think. that means devle wagon was entirely composed of town.

Explain how Pint and myself are "clear" please and thank you.

[Quick]

okay time to look at how many times ceejay mentioned ico, and their supposed reason for hopping onto ico. the same applies to random.

the worst kill implies off wagon scum so we're looking at
mutantdevle-(2): Iconeum, pinturicchio
Not Voting--(4): mutantdevle, pisskop, Alonzo, Quick
a pool of these guys too. can clear quick and pint i think. that means devle wagon was entirely composed of town.

Explain how Pint and myself are "clear" please and thank you.

Oh. NVM I get it... You are assuming an awful lot about this game if you think that clears anyone... LMAO have you never played with a competent Scum player or something?

P-Edit: I can guarantee you I will not be sheeping a damn read you make unless you explain it.

[Quick]

Nooooo. You're both voting on the wrong player. I'm voting the guy who has two of his top scumreads flip town.

There is absolutely NOTHING strange about this post AT ALL! I would say it is a Town tell if anything for joining in in the jokery.

[Quick]

Let's do it!

VOTE: Sando

Choomotherfuckingchooo

We're not lynching Sando...

Why not? Because he is "logical" I have already put him through the ringer... People just can't see it yet.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutantdevle

And there goes my TR on you...

Such recklessness.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutantdevle

And there goes my TR on you...

Such recklessness.

shut up

Let me repeat something I said earlier... NO ONE should sheep you if you don't lay out your reasoning.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutantdevle

And there goes my TR on you...

Such recklessness.

shut up

Let me repeat something I said earlier... NO ONE should sheep you if you don't lay out your reasoning.

shut up

Let me let you in on a little secret... I'm not going to.

Why to NOT sheep you if you don't explain shit you might ask? Because without reasoning, Town don't know if you are making your pushes for the right reasons.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutantdevle

And there goes my TR on you...

Such recklessness.

shut up

Let me repeat something I said earlier... NO ONE should sheep you if you don't lay out your reasoning.

But i thought his reasoning is 1554

that's not a causation. That is a reasonable read to make, BUT it's def NOT a lock and if he is Scum he can easily fish that out during NP given he would have time to prepare.

But with me you don't have to worry about any of that shit because if someone asks me to explain something, I do.

[Quick]

It's called a frame @CJ.

[Quick]

@1564

First of all, are you really trying to suggest I would kill the worst over comments he made about me very early in the game which has since changed? Think about it, if I was to kill someone for scum reading me then I'd obviously pick you.

Second of all, you are now describing Pintu as scum based on a vote on him by the worst which was shortly redacted despite literally describing the wagon on me around the time of Ico's as being entirely town which included Pintu...

So do you think Pintu is scum or not?

i don't know i'm thinking about it.

also yeah, worst was townreading you. i didn't want to say anything to see if you picked up on it. VOTE: pintu

Wouldn't picking up on how someone changes their read on you be kinda more Scummy than Townie? Why is it more Townie?

[Quick]

devle make a convincing defense or lay down and die. i don't particularly care either way.

I don't get why you're so toxic... and given this toxicity, I doubt you'd ever listen to a single word I say in my defence. I've been actively defending myself this entire game and poked holes in several of your arguments but you never see that. All you see when you look at me is a wolf despite there being no full moon.

you poked holes in a single argument.

anyway, I'M FUCKING MAD. the wolves killed my favorite player, so now i'm coming after each and every one of you because you fuckers ruined this game for me. the kill was me OR ANYONE BUT THE WORST. anyway, i just fucking moved my vote on you, so go solve before you change my mind to move back on you.

That is one of the most pathetic displays of AtE I have seen in a while...

[Quick]

Who wants to know my SRs?

[Quick]

pint random alonzo {your pick of a deepwolf or pk} would make sense to me.

Why?

[Quick]

@quick Why Sando?

You judge logical type players based on their stances. His stances are not good IMO.

[Quick]

I feel a lot better about Alonzo. He just seems to have Town presents and Town mindset.

[Quick]

@quick Why Sando?

You judge logical type players based on their stances. His stances are not good IMO.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by his stances aren't good?

Quote some of his stances if necessary and explain why there are sub-par.

I would have to dig into his ISO to get a firm grasp of the stances he has made throughout the game. I know one of them was his stance on me which I didn't like considering I felt he was over justifying SRing me. Then when everyone else started to TR me, he also stated doing the same thing. Also There have been a number of logically unsound things he has stood for that I think more often come from Scum than Town.. Read my 1v1 with him to get more details on this. I also didn't like how he interacted with Duck.

[Quick]

Uh, yeah? I want to townread you both, I don't care what you think about each other, I want to sort the rest.

Righto, townread me at your leisure! Re-read Alonzo+Quick last few pages today with the assumption that:

Sando is town and thinks Quick is terrible-town

. Read my interaction from 1603 to 1607. Notice the:
a) Basically sheeps Quick, he provides basically zero justification for calling me scum beyond it "feels" different to my Ico push,
b) Doesn't actually back it up when I push back and,
c) Only soft-calls me scum by saying my read is fake.

To me this strikes me as a planned "sheep Quicks bad SR on Sando day2", thoughts?

a)I Aint sheepin nobody.
b)Is this semantics again?
c)Your read is faker than Michael Jacksons Nose on Pamela Andersons Left titty.

So by All means continue to conspire Sando I'm gagging to hear the others thoughts on me.

Back to you Wolfman.

Welcome to my Town core.

[Quick]

I'm not going to get into a wallpost war, points get lost way too easily and it just comes off as impossible for anyone else to read. So:

a) You think 649 is my first mention of you and 673 my first read? Nope. 360 I confirm you're in my would-lynch list. 400 I outright list you in would-lynch. 626 I call your catchup fine but your conclusion terrible. And in 646 I laugh at you asking for my reasoning for TRing duckling when I'd only recently had the conversation with Oxy which you had clearly either ignored or missed. To take 649 without the context of 646 is just terrible from you, let alone ignoring everything I'd said on you before.
b) My reads on you went from would-lynch for lack of town-content, to scumlean for your catchup, to town-lean for your push on duckling, back to scumlean by the end of day for your pathetic arguments subsequent to that.
c) You still haven't voted me, bring it on or stfu.

Back to you Wolfman.

So why are you handling me so different?

Im now your number one scummer so vote me huh?

And rally the troops to your cause...

How about follow your own advice maybe?

d) These are hilarious together:

Now questioning why someone else wants to SR me.. looking for a way in..

@quick Why Sando?

You're bad at this and you should feel bad.

VOTE: Alonzo

Your case on Alonzo is completely hollow, which is a dead giveaway that you are Scum. There is just so much you ignore about Alonzo's play that I can't see how you could be so oblivious to the Town tells that Alonzo is laying down that it's not even funny.

[Quick]

And I sorta feel like Oxy's early TR of Alonzo is kinda a TMI read... Hmm.

[Quick]

Your case on Alonzo is

completely hollow

, which is a dead giveaway that you are Scum. There is just so much you ignore about Alonzo's play that I can't see how you

could be so oblivious to the Town tells

that Alonzo is laying down that it's not even funny.

I would have to dig into his ISO to get a firm grasp

of the stances he has made throughout the game. I know one of them was his stance on me which I didn't like considering I felt he was over justifying SRing me. Then when everyone else started to TR me, he also stated doing the same thing. Also There have been a number of logically unsound things he has stood for that I think more often come from Scum than Town.. Read my 1v1 with him to get more details on this. I also didn't like how he interacted with Duck.

God you're hilarious. The fact that you're welcoming him to your "towncore" because he's come into the day agreeing with your SR read (on a townie) is EXACTLY his plan. He's using you like a cheap hooker.

if you're so sure he is Scum, why didn't you vote him earlier?

[Quick]

I've played with:

pinturicchio
pisskop (first game ever on site and no more)
ceejayvinoya
Both heads of Momo
And I've played with Korina and NM as well.

[Quick]

Sadly Momo doesn't play well with others and will likely consume my vote indefinately.

And FYI Sando, your only a null scum+ currently, dont act like this is end of days.

This screams BS to me, you're soft calling for a policy lynch on Momo yet using that as justification for me not being the top scummer.

I'm at a point Where IDRC if this flips town or not. Sad. Not how I usually like to play mafia but hey.

This does not scream "Mom is my top scummer" pick, yet you're voting Mom and seemingly using this as an excuse not to vote me since he's seemingly the only person you mention other than me.

This push is so bad...

[Quick]

This push is so bad...

Shhh, adults are talking

This implies you think I am garbage at this game. Hate to tell you this but I don't actually suck at this game. The baseless discredit is noted though.

[Quick]

@Sando If quicks cooking up a wall quicks cooking up a wall, i dunno what hes gonna say yet.
But I do believe he can probably make a case against you , so I take him at his word that he will. Then when it gets here it will go through scrutineering just like any and all other posts.

So...uhh...what was your reaction test trying to achieve? He eventually responded with a 3 line answer about how he could make a case but really he's gonna have to dive in more to do that. But you're happy to wait for him to actually make a case, despite no evidence that he's working on that, nor actually prompting him to do that outside of me now forcing you to say something?

Yeah...that doesn't strike me as genuine from you.

Why doesn't it seem genuine? You realize saying something isn't genuine is like the easiest reason for Scum to make right?

[Quick]

This implies you think I am garbage at this game. Hate to tell you this but I don't actually suck at this game. The baseless discredit is noted though.

Ok Quick, here's the thing...it's not just me that thinks that. There's quite a few players in this game that think you're bad at it, I'm just blessed with knowing it because I'm town and looking at your terrible logic for scum!Sando. Momo def thinks it, mutant I'm pretty sure does, CJ is calling you out on bad calls, etc etc. Notice that all of those people are basically ignoring your reads...there's one person currently using your reads and working their way into your confidence. Pretty much everyone except one person is calling you bad-town, and one person is taking you at your word...

You need some introspection to see this, but I think now that I've pointed it out the others might start to see just how weird it is for Alonzo to buddy up to you today.

So yes, I'm saying you're playing badly and your reads are bad, and I'm saying that scum!alonzo has decided to abuse that fact here.

This all has more to do with me having a PoV that is not the norm more than anything.

You want evidence that I am not bad at this game I can provide it.

[Quick]

Why doesn't it seem genuine? You realize saying something isn't genuine is like the easiest reason for Scum to make right?

Because his statement that "it's a reaction test" doesn't line up with a complete lack of interest in your reaction.

I don't see how that is a causation. Explain that.

[Quick]

I don't see how that is a causation. Explain that.

Wat?

He said it was a reaction test to you, you reacted (eventually), and he's still waiting according to his own words. When you do a "reaction test" you're looking for a reaction. He can't actually articulate what he thinks of your reaction, merely kicks the can down the road by saying he's still waiting for your full case on me.

Oh, I thought he was reaction testing you. In any case, Scum are usually not that sloppy because they are more self aware.

[Quick]

Oh, I thought he was reaction testing you.

A little reaction test

on Quick

to make sure hes not shitposting.

Like...if you want people to take you seriously, read the thread maybe?

Details..

But anyways...

[Quick]

I do wanna hear those raisins tho quick.

What reasons do you want for what?

[Quick]

your case on sando.

Most of my reasons can be found in what I said earlier if you ISO me.. but I suppose I can try and do a case out of it sometime this day phase.

[Quick]

your case on sando.

Most of my reasons can be found in what I said earlier if you ISO me.. but I suppose I can try and do a case out of it sometime this day phase.

That'd be Grand.

I don't expect many people to agree with my case ftr because people never do.

[Quick]

Yeah, I am going to do a Sando case, but don't expect it to be great... Most people completely disagree with my cases fwiw because I tend to either just state facts and have people decide that those facts are Scummy and/or I interpret things from a psychological PoV that most think doesn't mean they are scum, so... yeah.

[Quick]

Yeah I know, I could be wrong about you, you're the player I'm having the most trouble to sort, I'll ISO you again and see if I can decide because you're useful as town

Oxy is pinging me for being "reasonable but not contributing", I haven't ISOd and done a number crunch or anything, but Oxy is striking me as spending most of his time basically telling others how to play the game ("oh be nice guys") type of posts

without actually contributing to the hunt in any meaningful way.

Thoughts?

I was considering you could be Town until I read the red.. Then it kinda spoiled it for me.

[Quick]

I was considering you could be Town until I read the red.. Then it kinda spoiled it for me.

Yeah, this is accurate.

Too funny

Iunno if it's a scumtell or not, I mean it'd made you the manipulator type of scum, and I think there's zero chance we don't have a lurker-scum with us at the moment, just a feeling I've been having.

Thanks for asking!

[Quick]

Thanks for asking!

You're welcome

My God, it's like you are Obv!Scum at this point... IDK why it's just me and Alonzo SRing you at this point, honestly.

Town tend to ask about things they don't understand instead of arrogantly dismissing it...

[Quick]

And let's get this stated right now:

Effort =/= Town.

[Quick]

My God, it's like you are Obv!Scum at this point... IDK why it's just me and Alonzo SRing you at this point, honestly.

Town tend to ask about things they don't understand instead of arrogantly dismissing it...

this is more personality indicative, or indicative of your current relationship with him. Def NAI, though. Stop scum reading town bloc

I think you missed the last line there???

[Quick]

My God, it's like you are Obv!Scum at this point... IDK why it's just me and Alonzo SRing you at this point, honestly.

Town tend to ask about things they don't understand instead of arrogantly dismissing it...

this is more personality indicative, or indicative of your current relationship with him. Def NAI, though. Stop scum reading town bloc

I think you missed the last line there???

You're saying that him not asking you about - whatever - is a reason to scum read him. I'm saying it's not.

Is that an accurate representation?

Yes.

You're saying that him not asking you about - whatever - is a reason to scum read him. I'm saying it's not.

Is that an accurate representation?

He's saying that me not asking for others opinions is scummy. Which would be fair enough, if not for the below.

He's also ignoring the bolded part:

Oxy is pinging me for being "reasonable but not contributing", I haven't ISOd and done a number crunch or anything, but Oxy is striking me as spending most of his time basically telling others how to play the game ("oh be nice guys") type of posts without actually contributing to the hunt in any meaningful way.

Thoughts?

I'm assuming he's ignoring that cause he's...well I've been asked to stop insulting people, but you get the picture.

Here's the thing... I don't get why you just say "thoughts?" without actually asking anyone in specific. It makes what you are asking way too open ended and if I had to wager, I'd say you normally are not that general with things.

[Quick]

No no, your attitude towards me is NAI, I'm scumreading you because of meta and because of the worst dying on N1

What about the worst's death says that I'd be scum? What do you think my motive would be for wanting him dead?

Spoiler: If your reason is the reason I think town!you would be straight onto then I may start ignoring my gut read on you.

I don't know what you are thinking and that could be easily stated ("that was not the reason I was thinking, you're scum!1!!one!"), but yeah, I think you wanted the worst dead because in Open 714 you tended to suggest we should kill the people with good reads instead of trying to get the PR dead; when we lynched A50, you said on the scum PT "I can't believe we lynched one of the strongest players, I was thinking we should kill A50 just because of how accurate his earlier reads were". I don't think the scumteam (aka you and your partners) noticed the crumbing from the worst (because I didn't noticed and I'm a good PR hunter), it was a lucky coincidence that he was a PR.

So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect, and you were MY suspect on D1 since forever, so who would have known, I was right, you are scum.

I really like the conviction of this post.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutant

KTS picked the lynch yesterday, its my turn.

-Eddie

That's a neat trick.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutant

KTS picked the lynch yesterday, its my turn.

-Eddie

That's a neat trick.

They were already voting mutant so...

Sush, I am making a horrible star wars joke.

[Quick]

Well if we go with the Devle lynch and its town, I wanna lynch momo then oxy in that order.

discuss

Dis not good... I don't like it when people line up lynches.

[Quick]

well we can just lynch momo and go from there?

Hows that Sando read coming along?

@quick

I might have time sometime soonish.. Like I said, def before EoD. TBH, I don't want to do it so I am procrastinating it. I need to find some time and when I do I will do it. That time could come as early as tomorrow, however. The thing is, I said I would go over a game with someone and help them improve so I kinda want to get to that as well and that requires reading through and entire game so...

I actually don't think I feel to bad for at least wagoning Momo, but it's going to be pretty raw if they flip Town. Damned if you do damned if you don't sorta thing, I guess is how I am feeling about that.

[Quick]

I think unless Alonzo is pulling a fast on on me, he is almost def Town here and I hate Sando's push there.

[Quick]

This assumes way too much about the worst's reads. It potentially spews any other scum reads the worst has as town, but at minimum mutantdevle should have considered that the worst has other reads that could have been taken into account when making an nk decision.

Also, mutant basically just confirmed that he should have seen the worst's soft.

So why didn't you see the worst's soft? Do your soft-identifying skills diminish when you are town?

Personally, I think you are assuming more when you claim he was properly scum reading me. I mean, these were the lest 2 posts of his that mentioned me (from a simple CTRL+F)...

Is Piss by virtue of a Korina read?
or did you find his opening towny?

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

pedit: good post...he refuses to do anything townie ://

devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio

Take this as you will.

Though just sayin', he literally fucking says it.

But I suppose the start of the game where he was suspicious of me must be his more accurate reads than what he says here. And I would totally kill him for tarnishing my good ole' townie imposed name.

And, I don't know about you, but I find I don't need to PR hunt when I'm town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I PR hunt as scum, not as town.

Honestly, it's becoming a little frustrating how you're making this accusation against me when you're not even looking at the facts. ('you' is a synonym for Oxy and Pintu here) I'd also like to think I'm more inteligent than basing a night kill off of how someone

used

to read me.

This is a very legit point...

IDK guys, I am feeling Town on Devle. Even though he is wordy as all fuck, I think most of it is pretty damn solid and in my experience, solid usually comes from Town.

[Quick]

Momo hasn't Burned anyone for a few days now

So im gonna

Unvote

For now and keep digging.

@Quick, post up the link to your buddies game and we will all chip in with that. Thats gonna give you more time.

Did anybody understand Random Midgets post or who it was aimed at?

I can do that I guess... not in a million years was I expecting to get more help on this, but I'll take it.

Game is here:

http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/124046 ... hread.html

I was Scum buddies with this person in this game (I go by the same name there) and we are looking at Glenda Garden Gnome.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

[Quick]

b) Just ignore the hider today and hope for two inno's tomorrow

this is my choice.

And feel free to crumb as well.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

I want to know what you think of piss. This is not strictly a TR of mine, but I figured you were open to talking so I'd like your thoughts on that slot.

[Quick]

Also, fml. I just wrote a long ass theoretical scenario explaining how everyone fake claiming a hider target each day helps us narrow down who the scum are when they are eventually killed only to find my theory wasn't actully that accurate...

If there was only 1 scum left though then doing this would nail them.

Hider cover isn't a terrible idea actually... IDK how it fits very well in this setup with so few(?) TPRs, however. I mean, the con is that we get fucked royally because Scum shoots who hider hides behind... Yeah, it's a risky strategy. A possible way to get clears though, is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).

[Quick]

To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make any assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

I'm not following your logic here Oxy, and I've read this interaction between you and mutant very closely now.

Mutant gets accused of being ducklings main scumread and thus a reason for mutant killing duckling. Mutant points out that he was actually moving ducklings read away from scum towards town, so that argument about him should be invalid.

What's this about "assumptions" that I'm missing here? To me he did what you said, pointed out ducklings read on himself being null or even town.

This is going to sound crazy, but this post makes me reconsider my read on you. This kind of Tone is pretty damn difficult to fake.

[Quick]

is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).

For a moment there I was like "damn, this is a really good idea and we should totally do this because a hider can claim without fear of being directly attacked" but then I remembered that mafia have a JK and that would totally ruin this (although reduce the risk that the tracker is blocked instead).

Basically, I think that once we lynch the jailkeeper the hider should role claim and follow this strategy.

Hider goes before JK to the best of my knowledge.

[Quick]

I am kinda feeling like all the active people are Town at this point... I will leave room for Oxy to be Scum though.. Actually, I keep thinking that Oxy is intentionally holding back and not showing their full hand and I was thinking this was Townie, but now I am thinking it is more Scummy.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

I want to know what you think of piss. This is not strictly a TR of mine, but I figured you were open to talking so I'd like your thoughts on that slot.

I have little to no read on pisskop. I know he has posted next to nothing, but I can't remember what he has talked about. I need more from him, and that's why pin and I are voting him.

What did you see from him that you liked?

Had nothing to do with piss themself. Had everything to do with Korina... I can see two sides of the coin here on Korina... I think some of the things he did was pretty Townie, but then we found out that was because they weren't on their meds and then I noted a change in their tone and then later they replaced out. So I am about where you are on that slot.

And I am thinking all the active posters are Town again.

[Quick]

I am doing this:

VOTE: Momo

[Quick]

@ Mutant

Give us a list?

I think the main reason for most of these changes is loss of confidence or lack of development.

Town:

Sando <-- this is feeling pretty locked tbh.

-0

Town Lean:

Oxy

v1

Quick

-0

Alonso

-0

Null:

Not_Mafia

-0

randommidget

-0

Scum Lean:

MOMOMEN

v1

pisskop

^1

Scum:

Ceejay

v1

Pintu

-0

If you disagree with my reads (as people naturally will and should do), question them; don't shit on them.

I have a very hard time believing that Scum make a reads list like that...

Have you done a reads list like this before as Scum?

[Quick]

Had nothing to do with piss themself. Had everything to do with Korina... I can see two sides of the coin here on Korina... I think some of the things he did was pretty Townie, but then we found out that was because they weren't on their meds and then I noted a change in their tone and then later they replaced out. So I am about where you are on that slot.

And I am thinking all the active posters are Town again.

Ah yeah... Korina was an early town read of mine, who then had one or two awful posts before replacing out. I decided to just call korina's input null, and sort pisskop instead. We ended up getting very little to sort, though =/

OK, well, you are putting my mind to ease atm and I was pretty unsure about you for a while, so this is really good.

[Quick]

Vote Quick

Thin Ice

That is going to require some explanation...

If you are trying to pigeonhole me to making a case on someone, sorry, but I don't respond well to threats.

[Quick]

In no particular order:

Piss

Pint
Despite all Oxy
Mutant

Still feeling good about this list minus Piss because they have done jack. What's good about this list is that a lot of these players are up for lynch today.

Let's do this:

VOTE: Random

[Quick]

I am liking Sando a lot LOT more lately. I might add them to my Town core at this point.

[Quick]

I think CJ is Scum for ~Raisins~

[Quick]

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

I'm going here and seeing who jumps on and who doesn't.

[Quick]

@MOD

,

I'd like to see that VC appar at some point...

[Quick]

With 4 days Left im going to

VOTE: MOMOMEN

This slots had 3 masters that cant tame it from oozing scuminess and looking to cause a bit of friction. Its my decision or the Lynch. Its the only slot I fully scumread, Sure there are some uptight Aholes here, me included, but they are capable of healthy debate fairly easily. This is the only slot I could recommend to my fellow Townies Lynch with hand on heart. Apologies If that makes me a basic Bitch, but I might as well say it before im called it.

On the subject of no lynch, less inclined to start PL'ing the quieter slots until we have heard from the Hider. Quite sudden I know for a change of heart.
But I think with all the quieter slots, And town not doing too bad a job of not cutting each other open at the knee, Scum have struggled to score a false wagon today.

Enjoying it or not, we all have our core reads and those that fly outside our brackets. Il discuss wagons, but not my vote right now.

What was even the point of your CJ vote?

[Quick]

Wagons should be Rando/CJ I feel pretty comfortable putting CJ as Scum here.

[Quick]

Quick, you have a few games with cj ya?

Yer.

[Quick]

@quick do you think you have a handle on how his scum game differs from his town game?

Yes, I think so. Part of this is for ~Raisins~ though.

[Quick]

@quick do you think you have a handle on how his scum game differs from his town game?

Yes, I think so. Part of this is for ~Raisins~ though.

May I see those raisins.

I am not at liberty to discuss them.

[Quick]

Lol. Typical.

How is that at all "typical?"

[Quick]

Spam Squad: The name says it all; these will be our scum MVPs.
LicketyQuickety: The dude tries so hard, but he gets...off-track so easily. So easily letting emotions get the better of him. So easily going off on tangents. He's often mislynched, he's often wrong in reads, he's not often charismatic. He tries to improve, but he just keeps on focusing on all the wrong areas and whenever he finds a right one...it's not too difficult to send him back into the wrong areas. This is what we'll use if we're against him.

If you have a point, you want to make it?

[Quick]

I want to lynch Alonzo, KTS wants to lynch Random, we are both also cool with a Devle push. I don't townread CJ sure we can lynch him I guess but like I said in the scummiest post of the game, we win by getting carried by the hider or we lose because the hider chokes / scum JKs well.

Solution: Lynch ObvScum CJ.

[Quick]

Are we town Quick?

Don't know, but I think tracker should be on you tonight.

[Quick]

Is Alonzo? Not gonna get into why the tracker statement is dumb idrc

Don't know. Not my concern at this point. My concern is lynching ObvScum CJ.

[Quick]

Reads:

Town

Pint
devle
Sando

Town Lean

Not_Mafia
Oxy

Null

Random
Momo
Alonzo

Scum Lean

CJ

[Quick]

Can you sum up the CJ push in one post?

I can do it in one word: Meta.

[Quick]

I fell a long way quick for voting you once?

Nah, it's not that. I don't remember what it was though.

[Quick]

Lols. Quick has only played one game with me, if I remember right. His metaread won't be accurate.

Except you are responding to pressure a LOT differently in this game.

[Quick]

I'm actually gonna side with cheet here. Quick, what of my play style tells you that I'm town? I could easily do the same thing as scum

Here's a post from last game that shows clear Town thought process because I was TRing you and you were siding with someone else saying my TR on you was not justified.

Yes. I contradicted myself earlier. Call it a noob mistake. Or not.

I did prodvote cake in an attempt to draw a reaction from him. He's not here anymore so oh well.

As for me being against prodvoting, that was just my reaction on me being voted :/

This is how you responded to pressure on you initially last game... Complete 180 to what we are seeing here. In that game, you ADMIT you are looking Scummy and explain your thought process behind why you did what you did. Here you are basically just trying to shrug off the pressure with an "lol you're so wrong." 100% different from last game.

[Quick]

We are getting close to deadline and we don't have wagons as full as I would like. This needs to be remedied with votes.

I would like to see random and Piss replaced because they haven't done anything and haven't posted in like 5 days. Mod is seriously dropping the ball here. So there's 2 votes that probably are not going to be utilized by EoD.

Wagons at this point are:

Random: Not_Mafia, Sando, Momo [L-3]
Not_Mafia: Devle [L-5]
ceejayvinoya: Pint, Oxy, Quick, Alonzo [L-2]

Not Voting (3): randomidget, pisskop, ceejayvinova

[Quick]

Decision Decisions

Momo still really pings me as scum, Dont fall for his Wolfin'.
Ceejay wagon is as thin as they come, I expect to see Sando and Momo join the Party any time now. =)

Quick- Appreciate the Evidence,have you Got a few posts from this game that Give insight into what hes thinking In this One?
If you have that, I will be your L-0 on the Ceejay wagon.

I can go and dig around for stuff in his ISO that I don't like but basically the case is that he's a lot more loose and solvey as Town than he is as Scum. As Scum he's pretty much just commenting on things for the sake of commenting on them (barring the pressure posts from him in which case he is acting completely different than last time). He just doesn't seem to be trying to figure out the game at all here. This is a tell for multiple levels of play but it's an especially potent tell for newbies. Like, with most people when they are Scum they make a good effort to look like they are trying to solve. We just are not seeing that from Ceejay here and the reason is because he's so green and as such is out of his element as Scum here. I am also playing with him in Newbie 1864.

[Quick]

UNVOTE

You just unvoted Ceejay...

[Quick]

The ceejay wagon composition stinks, more votes on random pls

But I am on the wagon and I think it is good and I am fairly confident Ceejay flips Scum here.

[Quick]

The ceejay wagon composition stinks, more votes on random pls

But I am on the wagon.

Exactly

Then you have zero progression on me if you are SRing me because last I checked you were TRing me. Explain that.

[Quick]

The ceejay wagon composition stinks, more votes on random pls

But I am on the wagon.

Exactly

Then you have zero progression on me if you are SRing me because last I checked you were TRing me. Explain that.

I didn't say I was scumreading you

Then you should trust me on ceejay, because I am pretty damn confident they flip Scum.

[Quick]

Then you have zero progression on me if you are SRing me because last I checked you were TRing me. Explain that.

Pretty sure he's just being an edgelord.

Sorry Alonzo, not lynching outside of the lurkers for now.

They probably get replaced anyways. Why are you so firm on lynching lurkers? Surely you saw Mathdino's update right? Like extra time is probably going to be added to the Day Phase. I don't get why you want to lynch them in spite of that.

[Quick]

Then you should trust me on ceejay, because I am pretty damn confident they flip Scum.

He's saying you have bad reads and that any wagon you're on is therefore a bad wagon.

When I am confident someone is Scum they usually are because I am not confident people are Scum very often.

[Quick]

They probably get replaced anyways. Why are you so firm on lynching lurkers? Surely you saw Mathdino's update right? Like extra time is probably going to be added to the Day Phase. I don't get why you want to lynch them in spite of that.

Note that I said that I'm not lynching "outside" of the lurkers, not that I'm pushing either lynch "firmly" as you say.

I'm basically saying I'm 100% not lynching anyone other than them whilst the lurkers continue to lurk. That is different from saying that I want to lynch the lurkers right naow!

Then why didn't you say that in the first place?

[Quick]

When I am confident someone is Scum they usually are because I am not confident people are Scum very often.

You were pretty confident I was scum...

I don't think I ever said I was confident you were Scum. Subtle, but it's different.

[Quick]

Then why didn't you say that in the first place?

Jesus dude, actually take the time to read beyond the literal and try to understand what people are saying.

I said: "not lynching outside of the lurkers for now."

You decided to interpret that as I'm pushing for a lurker lynch. I never said that, I haven't tried to convince anyone to vote a lurker, all I said was that I'm not lynching outside of those people. You not understanding what I'm saying is YOUR problem, not mine.

Why do you think lynching in the lurkers has a better shot at hitting Scum than lynching CJ?

[Quick]

Town
Oxy
pinturicchio
Alonzo
Quick
Sando
MOMOMEN


Not town
mutantdevle
randomidget
pisskop
Not_Mafia

today's lynch
ceejayvinoya

Justify Momo over Devle?

Yes, want to know this as well. Add Alonzo to the list as well.

[Quick]

Yes, want to know this as well. Add Alonzo to the list as well.

Why Cant you place me Quick?

Not sure. There are some "soft tell" that you are doing that tell me you are Town, but I have to contrast this with that I think some of the things you have done seem pretty agendaey. That would be why you are Null. Granted you and I are in late game/LyLo, I will probably be able to read you at that time.

[Quick]

I think oxy wants to protect the momo slot what do you think?

I think if Ceejay flips Red Sando could be red too.

First thing... Possibly. I haven't really seen anything Townie from Momo. I've only really seen them assume that they should be a TR which is not the same thing.

If Ceejay flips red (like I think he will) I might revisit my Sando read. It just sucks that no one else was seeing what I was seeing in their play. This happens a lot. It happened in Team Mafia when I went after Shea. Same sorta thing here if Sando is Scum.

[Quick]

I think Sando is criticising your strategy rather than calling you scummy for it

Yayaya.

Also saying that we've identified 3 reasons for duckling dying:
1 - He was strongly TRd
2 - He softclaimed
3 - His reads and coordination abilities were strong

I'm positing that 1 isn't particularly true, and JJ is saying that 2 isn't true, to me that leaves 3. That should imply we look into what he was looking at D1 and start pulling things out, but no-one seems keen to do that...which yes I find interesting.

4) WIFOM kill.

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Look at devle with the case! A+ work dude!

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So Alonzo, both replacements lock town us. Thoughts

Ha.. hahahahahaha! you're joking right?

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Town: Quick, MOMOMEN

Nah your predecessor's take on slayer's was all I needed lmao

HAHAHAHA you can read right?

Why the fuck does the fact the two subs TR you mean at all other than that they TR you? They could be Scum with you or TRing you when they are Town and you are Scum or They could be Scum and TRing you as Town. Your comment is completely pointless.

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Singer/sta1y is self resolving at this point. One of them is dying in NP.

VOTE: Mathdino

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Der...

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so ceejay is L2 now?

Pint, Oxy, Quick, mutant for the 4? We probs need some VCs going here, but yeah I think you're right. Also N_M not on the wagon so it's basically L-1.

How do you know NM isn't Scum?

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@Not maf

do you want the scum slot on ceejay or shall I have it?

I say you dare him to hammer.

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Some say Not Mafia dug up Iconeums remains,...ground them up and snorted them..
If that is true he's lock town in my eyes.

You had one job...

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@Momo, you still haven't backed up anything.

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Lets Lynch CJ today.

2moro its me or Momo.

Its getting to the point I'd happily lay down my Slot to prove what an Asshat Momo is.

WTF is this post?

VOTE: Alonzo

What exactly is wrong with that post? I am not seeing that this makes Alonzo Scum whatsoever. You Scum tryana get the wagon off CJ?

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That above quote reads as a very poor attempt at tunneling someone who, for the record, is town.

Paraphrased it's basically "Look at me I'm deathtunneling because I think Eddie is a bad person"

Dude, you are reading into that post way too much. It either comes from Town or it's LAMIST, but it's def NOT clear just based off that one post that Alonzo is Scum. It's completely NAI.

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That above quote reads as a very poor attempt at tunneling someone who, for the record, is town.

Paraphrased it's basically "Look at me I'm deathtunneling because I think Eddie is a bad person"

Dude, you are reading into that post way too much. It either comes from Town or it's LAMIST, but it's def NOT clear just based off that one post that Alonzo is Scum. It's completely NAI.

Let me push

No, we need a lynch at this point, not a push. Do that shit next game day.

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We have 2 days so no, let me push

2 days isn't enough time to string up Alonzo so you are wasting your time.

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How about we lynch outside of CJ and Alonzo, then?
VOTE: UNVOTE

Uh... NO..? We are lynching CJ today. Why is everyone fucking this up so bad? It's not that hard. The only person really fighting against the CJ lynch is Momo and he has no case and that slot isn't really doing anything except puffing up their chest and beating on it. I see pretty weak content from that slot.

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the fact that quick likes a ceejay wagon is a good sign. the fact that he also says there's no resistance to it is also a good sign that i'm right on ceejay being town.

Why is CJ Town?

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What I am seeing is Town getting cold feet on CJ because Town gets STOOOPID near EOD.

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i've got a godread

Sorry but that counts for shit. If you are not going to actually back up what you are saying like other slots are doing, I don't want you in endgame. I mean what do you make of devles case? That case was better than ANYTHING you have done this game.

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What I am seeing is Town getting cold feet on CJ because Town gets STOOOPID near EOD.

yeah no this is wrong.

if a wagon is a wagon all the way to eod, and if it has absolutely no resistance, it's likely it's flipping town. my eod flips almost always end in a wolf so.

LOL. I would normally agree with you but it's been like pulling teeth getting CJ lynched despite a very strong case from devle and my strong meta read on them. Try again. The wagon has stalled like 4 times at this point.

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i've got a godread

Sorry but that counts for shit. If you are not going to actually back up what you are saying like other slots are doing, I don't want you in endgame. I mean what do you make of devles case? That case was better than ANYTHING you have done this game.

i'm defending town. what have you done but push against town?

the argument works both ways, bud. the only way you can back yourself up is with postgame, and i guarantee you won't have a fun time there with the way things are spiraling. my godreads are never wrong.

You're defending Town without evidence. And the only way you can know I am pushing against Town is if you are red so that means pretty much nothing to me.

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What I am seeing is Town getting cold feet on CJ because Town gets STOOOPID near EOD.

yeah no this is wrong.

if a wagon is a wagon all the way to eod, and if it has absolutely no resistance, it's likely it's flipping town. my eod flips almost always end in a wolf so.

LOL. I would normally agree with you but it's been like pulling teeth getting CJ lynched despite a very strong case from devle and my strong meta read on them. Try again. The wagon has stalled like 4 times at this point.

the wagon on d1 stalled even though it flipped villa.

That'
s being results oriented over process oriented.

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i've got a godread

Sorry but that counts for shit. If you are not going to actually back up what you are saying like other slots are doing, I don't want you in endgame. I mean what do you make of devles case? That case was better than ANYTHING you have done this game.

i'm defending town. what have you done but push against town?

the argument works both ways, bud. the only way you can back yourself up is with postgame, and i guarantee you won't have a fun time there with the way things are spiraling. my godreads are never wrong.

You're defending Town without evidence. And the only way you can know I am pushing against Town is if you are red so that means pretty much nothing to me.

a godread is stronger than a cop.

Fuck off.

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Naw, Pint vs devle was TvT

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uh, oops quotes. dont know what happened

I almost want to say this is an LOL!Clear.

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uh, oops quotes. dont know what happened

I almost want to say this is an LOL!Clear.

literally how

Because it implies he was looking at Ducks ISO. What Scum motive is there to ISO Duck there?

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uh, oops quotes. dont know what happened

I almost want to say this is an LOL!Clear.

literally how

Because it implies he was looking at Ducks ISO. What Scum motive is there to ISO Duck there?

I was cleaning up the 8 billion chrome windows/tabs I had

And I ended up on an old tab of mafiascum which I must have been using to look at posts at some point in the last... month.

It's really nai

The last month? WTH man?

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Well, so long as it came from your heart...

VOTE: ceejay
L-1

My man.

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Just spent morning catching up elsewhere on site...need break. Will shift focus to this game later today.

Where dat catch up doe?

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VOTE: ceejay

This is a bad lynch

OMGUS.

Did CJ give a read on NM? Might look at that later.

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VOTE: ceejay

This is a bad lynch

Why has it been 3 days since you posted?

If CJ flips red we lynch this as policy D3.

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I thought you were hugely confident in this flipping scum?

Town always have doubt or they are wrong. In my experience at least. Der's a proplay for you Townies who think you are 100% right in your read... you are probably wrong if you are 100% confident.

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VOTE: ceejay

This is a bad lynch

Why has it been 3 days since you posted?

Because the gamestate was excessively boring, why I be a CJ partner?

Not sure if you are yet. Depends on CJ's read on you if they flip red. If he flips Town you also have a chance to be Scum.

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Why does NM even exist

Because he's the hero we deserve not the one we need.

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Spoiler: CJ on NM

Whats with all this hate on Not_Mafia? Someone tell me pleaseee

Pintcheddar hasnt said anything relevant to the game yet, unless you count that Not_Mafia vote, which I guess is nice.

Whats with all this hate on Not_Mafia? Someone tell me pleaseee

Jealousy

Explain your vote on Pintchilada then.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

And my advice to everyone is that if Not_Mafia is gonna ruin the game for us later anyway, we should just policy lynch the guy.

I KNOW somehow my dumb duckling ass is important??

Ceejay what are your thoughts on the game? Something interesting would be rad. I'll keep asking. :3

Townleans on you, Quick and Fumuki and nothing else.
So far, it's been fun.

I think we should only just go with the Not_Mafia policy lynch if and only if we cant find scum today. UNVOTE: Not_Mafia

Pretty sure duckling is Scum here. I just voted them to see their reaction. Given they went on a sporadic spontaneous posting spree that has little to do with the Sus on them, I think this shows they are Scum.

That said, I almost thing I have enough on NM for a SR as well as a PL so I am going back there. But more votes on the worst is welcomed. I just have to vote NM for the principle of it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I'd like to see what you have on NM when you're ready.

these are all the times where CJ mentions NM. Gunna analyze this shit at some point.

At first glance it looks incredibly inconsistent.

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Fitz so far following the same script.

82 pages at replace in + RL + 12 more pages since replace in is a lot to digest.

I'm not opposed to the ceejay wagon but I would like to look the slot over more closely before I consider voting it. If that "looking over more closely" is getting me the stink eye so be it.

CJ was just lynched dude. Interesting timing.

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BTW, NM hammered without a claim and that is bad.

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BTW, NM hammered without a claim and that is bad.

He already did that in this same game, what were you expecting

IDK, it's just dumb af.

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If I'm the hider I'm hiding behind you^.

Dumb. What if he is Town?

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Hit us with those sexy reads CJ...

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VOTE: NOT MAF

Good vote here.

VOTE: NM

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OK, way too many people agreeing on Scum which tells me something is amiss.

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the same people who think that Mutantdevle is scum think NM is scum

So why are you voting NM?

Pretty sure that doesn't necessitate I am wrong. At this point, it's a PL because he's not even playing. This is on top of the fact that the longer he survives, the more it hurts Town. I thought NM was somewhat readable, but the only way I can conclude NM is Town is if he is telling the truth. IDK if that is a tell for him or not, it might be, but IDK for sure.

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OK, way too many people agreeing on Scum which tells me something is amiss.

We're all agreeing on scum because PoE at this point in the game with this many obvtowns and conftowns is piss easy

You don't have a PoE without a Scum flip.

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Yeah you do

Explain.

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Quick, I don't get why you think you can't do PoE without lynching a scum.

Mutant is L-2

Because no one is confirmed, for one. Secondly, as Town, we don't know what Scum are up to and we won't know what Scum are up to until we get a Scum lynch. When I say that I mean you can't assume your PoE is correct without something to look back on from Scum that can further provide evidence of other people's alignment. The basic rule before we get a Scum flip is to Scum hunt. Once you DO have a Scum lynched, then you can look at associations that player had with other players. You can't know someone is Town because sometimes Scum play very well. You could argue that a player is executing a lot of Town tells based on play, which fair enough, but it doesn't clear them from a PoE. The only way I think you can really have a PoE before a Scum flip is based on stances and/or votes, and that is quite the hary project to undergo without a Scum flip.

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We have 2 town confirmed and scum lynches don't confirm town any more than normal locktown reads

Ever heard of the terms spew and anti-spew? Based on the way Scum interact with people, this provides a shit ton of info on other players considering that unless Scum made a planned bus, they don't expect to get lynched, which means you can look at how they interacted with other people as very solid info.

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OK, way too many people agreeing on Scum which tells me something is amiss.

I'm going to talk to you like an equal once. I am not continuing to discuss this.

Yes, you can PoE before a scum flip. A scum flip is irrelevant for tow hunting. The paragon of 2017, Elliberreth, plays by townhunting and PoE, and sheeping his townreads (unless theres players he can read). This is not a debatable statement. Personal example: viewtopic.php?p=10045395#p10045395

We have 2 confirmed towns. We also have 1 universal town, you, and ourselves, and that leaves finding 1 town to break the game. Then theres the scummy trifecta. you'll notice every single player pretty kcuh outside of those 3 and you is pushing those 3. That cant be xcum pushing. Maybe we are wrong on 1 of the 3, but that's a problem for later.

Not Mafia is a fine lynch though.

Elli created a program to look at the frequency of what words are used as Town/Scum to determine people's alignment.

You can't PoE based on confirmed Town, you can only sheep them and have the confirmed Town Scumhunt based on people's stances/reactions. That is what is ideal.

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Both of the conf!town are voting mutant, so good sheeping there.

Being conf!town doesn't make them right. It just lets us know they aren't pushing from a scum agenda. I suppose, at the very least, with every misslynch that the confirmed townies are on the more obvious the scum become. I'd prefer that misslynch not being me though if that's not too much to ask.

That was directed at Quick who is saying sheeping the conf!town is the best play.

That's given they are a more competent player than myself. I am not sure of that, however.

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Mutant isnt town. KTS and I did extensive metadiving. I'm confident. But yes, as I said I'm not overtly against a NM lynch. Just want a lunch soon to speed this game up.

Case or it didn't happen.

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Sando - Generally town processes. Town on pushes. I think this is the closest thing to likely sleeper scum but I don't think there's anything that makes me vote him this game. Definitely not before Alonzo NM and Mutant flip. I only say that because he's the only one of you players I think is competent enough to powerscum.

I Feel the same way about devle. Tell me why devle doesn't fit this category.

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and LOL at hider saying who they hide behind. That's dumb. If they want to do that they should give multiple people they are hiding behind because if they just give one, then that's two Town for the price of one.

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and LOL at hider saying who they hide behind. That's dumb. If they want to do that they should give multiple people they are hiding behind because if they just give one, then that's two Town for the price of one.

Don't LOL at things you don't understand, especially when it's been explained clearly and you can't find the intellect to actually articulate a counter argument other than "that's dumb".

Sure. Does hider die if they hide behind the Town that is killed?

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I think everyone agrees that there's 3 scum in me, NM, Alonzo, Mutant, Fitz

I'd add you in there and take out devle and add sando. Otherwise, yeah, right on.

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Sure. Does hider die if they hide behind the Town that is killed?

Yep, I know where you're going, and before you say it, read what I've said and you can work out for yourself why it's fine for them both to die.

Blah blah, assuming it has to do with having an even number of players. Not convinced by that. Why kill Town when we don't have to?

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No matter who is lynched today, can we lynch Quick tomorrow?

no

What if we 100% gamesolve and have a mislynch in hand, can we do it then? Pretty please?

Are you claiming to have the game solved?

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Someone didn't take their benzo's today.

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Why is there so much resistance to a NM lynch @Sando, @jj.