Mini 1998: Super Smash Mafia for Nintendo Switch! [GAME OVER

[acryon]

VOTE: joey

Valuable contribution friend :3

Coaching?
VOTE: Index Chan

[acryon]

Hey acyron, how art thou?

I art good. How art thou?

Ok what is this page 2. I regret reading it.

Brafin:

Really, dude? Really?
This is OOC for Beef, IMO.

I agree actually.

Lets play a game

Someone officially and actually scumtold, if anyone finds the line im talking about gets a townread for a day

Also this is scummy grandstandy

Don't agree, but FWIW it feels like town.

Kokichi is prob scum, pint is trying to start conversation

VOTE: Inferno
Serious vote lets go.

Also don't use fucking yellow thats hard as fuck to read on MafSilver and MafSepia.

maybe paranoidspec/reaching but feeling this level of mad over yellow as unrealistic

Agree it is paranoidspec/reaching. Games can be hard enough to read through sometimes with people using normal colors.

MariaR is town.

pinturicchio is not. What is the point of taking off your RVS vote but then not actually doing anything?

VOTE: pinturicchio

[acryon]

What is the point of taking off your RVS vote but then not actually doing anything?

VOTE: pinturicchio

Unvoting Is doing something. Unvoting for a wagon that is getting momentum and could lead to an L-1 situation where a claim could be done is doing something. And last but not least, unvoting for someone you are not scumreading is absolutely doing something.

What do you want me to do? I have no good reads atm, like no reads at all. Should I vote randomly for someone again?

So are you telling me you really expected the Inferno wagon, which was clearly largely built on RVS, was potentially going to devolve into a forced claim scenario?

@pisskop: Do you really thing InfernoBraf is scum?

What's the deal with this? These votes look lazy and opportunistic.

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

Also not big on Kokichi.

Can't explain why Arcyon is prob-scum here. That would be rules violation.

Ok I see what you're talking about here now, and you haven't really pinged me yet, but this is so trash that it's hard for me to believe that you really believe it.

[acryon]

I think they want me to dead because he's under the assumption that it is beneficial to his win condition

Do you think the vote was legit or semi-RVS?

[acryon]

Why do people tr me even I don't feel like I've done much...not that I'm complaining please keep tring me (hehehehehe fools all of you)

Your play has been pretty obvtown so far. You know how sometimes you see someone play and you just know they're town? That's you.

[acryon]

I think they want me to dead because he's under the assumption that it is beneficial to his win condition

Do you think the vote was legit or semi-RVS?

legit, i think he thinks im mefia

If you think he's scum, why is your vote on beef and not him?

[acryon]

Thats a silly question.

He implies the townread on him. The real questionis why he's wasting energy on it.

You're totally right. I misread this post. Ignore my question Joey.

I think they want me to dead because he's under the assumption that it is beneficial to his win condition

[acryon]

What is the point of taking off your RVS vote but then not actually doing anything?

VOTE: pinturicchio

Unvoting Is doing something. Unvoting for a wagon that is getting momentum and could lead to an L-1 situation where a claim could be done is doing something. And last but not least, unvoting for someone you are not scumreading is absolutely doing something.

What do you want me to do? I have no good reads atm, like no reads at all. Should I vote randomly for someone again?

So are you telling me you really expected the Inferno wagon, which was clearly largely built on RVS, was potentially going to devolve into a forced claim scenario?

I saw a lot of people saying they were seriously voting for James390 and I felt I should take my vote out because my vote wasn't serious as theirs, and yes, I saw it was going to a force claim scenario, that's exactly what I said in my post. What's the point of refrasing what I said and making it a question if the answer is already there?

Because your statement was more hypothetical. Now it's clear you believed that was happening in actuality. That being said I didn't actually realize it was already at L-3 when you unvoted, so I guess I can see you believing that.

Gun to your head, who is scum?

[acryon]

Are you implying that you have a gun? Show me yours and I'll show you mine!
But for real, I would say Index. Their "Quick RVS readlist" pings me, because they have James390 as scum (the biggest wagon built at this point) and give towncred to a lot of people who may or may not deserve it, maybe to start distancing with their scumpals or to pocket townies. Also, they called me Pinocchio. BUT! Not worth a vote yet, I'm still sorting and reading again their read list to see any weird interaction with someone who could be their partner.

Is there anyone you think deserves towncred?

pinnochio is a 1st level kind of guy

Did you really think he was being serious? Also why is beef scum?

its scummy.
and groan-worthy
and scummy

Did you really think he was being serious?

UNVOTE:

[acryon]

Unlike some, I didnt miss him answering the question. I knew he was making an attempt at humor. Its the joke thats scummy.

Fair.

Also screwed up my unvote.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Raskolnikov

[acryon]

Meat is scum because i am a vegetarian, also yes pinocchio’s line about the gun was especially awk/strange but not in a scummy way, the vig crumb isnt an idea that far fetched

I guess but why are you PR-spec'ing?

[acryon]

Good question, i have a bad habit of outing pr reads/tells because i thinks its fun

VOTE: Joey

Nothing personal.

[acryon]

Good question, i have a bad habit of outing pr reads/tells because i thinks its fun

VOTE: Joey

Nothing personal.

You think this is ai?

Outing PR's is explicitly anti-town, which is the best reason I've found so far to have a vote on someone.

[acryon]

But it just said its a bad habit implying i do that as either alognement. If i could show propf of that would it sway you or you arent the type to take new infos into account?

Surely you understand how that's a convenient bad habit as scum.

Pistachio and Joey can have some time to provide more stuff if you want. But I mean Joey's progressing the game.

And so am I by voting him

[acryon]

Also anti-town doesnt mean mafia, it means anti-town

I understand that. But by definition of anti-town, the mafia benefits from it so it's probably in the town's best interest to lynch people that are helping out the mafia. Worst case we lynch a detriment to town.

But it just said its a bad habit implying i do that as either alognement. If i could show propf of that would it sway you or you arent the type to take new infos into account?

Surely you understand how that's a convenient bad habit as scum.

Pistachio and Joey can have some time to provide more stuff if you want. But I mean Joey's progressing the game.

And so am I by voting him

Acrlyc, tell me why would i need to out said read? What is convenient about it in this game? I could sureley tell my mefia partner at night or day if they have chat

Well if mafia do not have day-chat, then they have a vested interest in getting a vig lynched during the day, since it's the one role that can still do you damage even if you NK.

[acryon]

Your style says town, your posting says null

Agree, except change the 2nd part to lean-scum.

[acryon]

*coming out of flaking*

Joey is town for pointing out the soft or whatever lol
a wolf would just say it in their chat

Ok, again this assumes they have day-chat. Not sure the actual site percentage, but I've played about 50/50 games with day-chat and games without.

Feel free to give another reason why, because that one doesn't count.

[acryon]

1. that lynching a detriment to town mentality is so wolfy holy shit

2. idk if mafia has day chat but i don't think pointing out some one is softing a village role helps mafia lynch them at all

1. There are 2 people that help mafia: mafia, and detrimental town. The first we really really want to lynch, and the 2nd is better than many other alternatives, so not a bad loss if we're wrong.

2. How does it not help to signal to partners that you think someone is a PR that needs to be lynched?

[acryon]

I am not going to be in favor of lynching someone unless I think they are scum. But I'm also not going to be

too

upset if they flip town because it's better than people who are being pro-town.

1. that lynching a detriment to town mentality is so wolfy holy shit

2. idk if mafia has day chat but i don't think pointing out some one is softing a village role helps mafia lynch them at all

1. There are 2 people that help mafia: mafia, and detrimental town. The first we really really want to lynch, and the 2nd is better than many other alternatives, so not a bad loss if we're wrong.

2. How does it not help to signal to partners that you think someone is a PR that needs to be lynched?

because if buddies see it then the village sees it too

it's telling villagers "hey this guy is a vig don't lynch him"

Not quite. This early in the day it's an off-hand comment to the town. 10 IRL days from now, no one is going to hold against him that he mentioned someone was softing vig that early on.

[acryon]

Joey is crayon normally a bit uh

i dont wanna be rude but you get me

I'm worried I'm playing with a bunch of trolls in which case town might as well quit now. Can't imagine a better environment for scum to thrive.

[acryon]

Joey is crayon normally a bit uh

i dont wanna be rude but you get me

I'm worried I'm playing with a bunch of trolls in which case town might as well quit now. Can't imagine a better environment for scum to thrive.

Funny part is you are the troll arguing on a behavior scum wouldnt do, that I do as eother alognement and you are campaigning to lynch a slot voting for mefia whos anti town now?!

I think we have different definitions of trolling I'm presenting what I believe to be a realistic scenario. The rest of the town can decide whether they agree with me or not.

Have you seen pirate of ghe caribeans? Its ppl who are pro town you should be suspicious about because you mever know when they will turn wolfy!

Well I'm certainly not going to start by targeting people that look town...

honestly the way Joey pointed it out was so clear to everybody in game that he doesnt think pistachio should be lynched

I also don't believe that he was immediately trying to start up a wagon on him. I think it was possibly a signal to his other partners that he may be a good ultimate target for the day.

[acryon]

I'm worried I'm playing with a bunch of trolls in which case town might as well quit now. Can't imagine a better environment for scum to thrive.

Gotcha.

My joke was not softing a PR, but a reaction test. This game was full of jokes and nonsense; now we have something real to start the witch hunting.

This post of yours is ridicously scummy: too LAMIST to come from town. Why would a townie say something like this?

VOTE: acryon

Why would a townie say something like this? To hopefully get people to start playing for real? Ironically, in the line literally right before you asked this seems to imply you would be on my side in this: "This game was full of jokes and nonsense; now we have something real to start the witch hunting."

but w.e. Ive never turned down a wagon. And you guys are failing me on inferno.

VOTE: beef

What is your problem with InfernoBraf?

Can you vote meat pliz ? crayola is a bit silly but i think hes town

Silly is usually a nice way of saying stupid, but I'm glad you at least see where it's coming from.

No, absolutely not at all and the lack of content is actually telling pinnocchio, his wagon is not wierd because it's on mefia and mefia don't like mefia being wagoned

Then if I vote him now it would look like I'm bussing because of this, as I already said that I don't see the scumread everyone is seeing

Why do you even make that first point? I would hope you wouldn't avoid a wagon because you don't want people to think you are bussing...

[acryon]

1.- Yes, I agree that I want the rest to start playing for real, but your "impatience" on this subject doesn't feel real; it seems you tried to get some towncred by replicating something towne could be thinking but not saying.
2.- I'm not "avoiding" the wagon, I'm not jumping on it because I don't see what Joey sees about Beefster, and he said in a post before "could you change your vote please?". The post you quoted was a joke, don't you see the emoji at the end of it? Joey's tone is funny, I replied like that.

1. Well I'm not going to apologize for voicing my opinion, so we can agree to disagree on that.

2. I see what you're saying, but it felt awkward to me.

[acryon]

I believe acryon has played consistenly as a "serious" guy in a game where almost everyone else is being troll af. That's a good alibi

This is my style (admittedly as either alignment). I play mafia for fun, but from the standpoint that it's fun to investigate. If I want to have silly fun, I can mess around with people I know IRL, so you won't see me do that much here. I don't want to create the impression that I hate fun or being silly, but I also will do my best to keep the game from going

totally

off the rails

ya know crayon's "im playing with trolls" and whatever was a response to one of my posts. I mean I don't see any relationship between that comment and my post, I'm sure there was something, not just like "look at me being serious while everyone is trolling xdxd"
Want him to explain what the purpose of that comment was but I don't think scumreading him based on that is a thing really

My point was more-so to others than you, but your post was the most recent of a ton of "jokey" posts. So it was just me trying to preempt the aforementioned going off the rails.

I want to re-vote Raskolnikov, but I'll wait until they are back from V/LA and add more.

UNVOTE:

not a fan of how easily swayed gamma seems this game

I agree with this.

me too

Haven't gathered much from your posts. Any reads thusfar?

[acryon]

Why arent you voting the meat boi ? Why arent you even commenting on the wagon itself when you seems to react to the rest of the content

I don't particularly buy into it right now, but I also don't have enough of an issue with it to challenge people on it. His few posts alone aren't enough to sway me one way or the other.

[acryon]

not a fan of how easily swayed gamma seems this game

Would you rather me be locked into my reads and have terrible ones like in Railgun?

You should likely have some conviction behind your reads, yes.

I give everyone one post to tell me what's wrong with acryon's last post (and btw I already very much know what I'm saying so don't bother screaming anything about me fishing for reasoning)

If you're not fishing, then how about you just say? How are guessing games helpful for anyone?

[acryon]

Because I'm wanting to see if anyone else can see how obviously bad what I'm looking at is

Haven't had to use this one in a while.

[acryon]

Haven't had to use this one in a while.

Why say that first line

Because I want to make sure you know I'm not using it lightly.

[acryon]

@Joey not it.

not a fan of how easily swayed gamma seems this game

I agree with this.

Of course he agrees with them because I'm voting him, this feels completely unnecessary and as such for show.

I'm allowed to dislike the play of someone that's voting me, and I'm not going to avoid saying so just because it looks OMGUS-y.

I always hated mid-post unvote, it feels as if the person is basically unvoting in reaction to whatever he quoted mid-post, i hate that

I typically do a catch-up post each morning where I go through and add things to one post as I encounter them/think about them. I can understand your other point about how it looks like posturing though. Maybe I should've added a FoS? Just not something I typically do.

[acryon]

Brafin

@Gamma

Cause he's waiting, but wants to revote him. He should have just kept his vote there in the first place.

I was voting Joey at that point, who I no longer felt was scum. I wanted to re-vote, but after realizing he was V/LA, I figured I would give Rask a chance to catch up. I think a vote is a lot more meaningful when a person is around to react to it.

[acryon]

@crayon whys rask wolfier than beefy

They're actually pretty close. They've both done similar bad things I think (i.e.72,130), but Rask just has a little more content for me to pick up tone from.

I do think Beef looks quite bad so far, but 1) it's hard for me to justify the vote on someone with 5 posts, and 2) I'm naturally more uncertain about pursuing wagons that seem to be picking up steam really quickly. I could definitely see Beef-scum, but it feels early.

[acryon]

#339 implies you don't think beef is wolfy tho

Well I think he's close to on par with Rask, which is almost wolfy enough to receive a serious vote, but not wolfy enough to be a 4th vote. Hence me not adding onto the wagon, but also not taking too much of an issue with people on it.

[acryon]

That hammer was very bad. I thought the vote from Rask was even worse because he knew the hammer was going to come.

I didn't vote Beef in the end, but I was there in spirit, so I'm hard-pressed to give anyone much crap for being on it.

i was genuinely mistaken, i 100% thought this was a bussed scum flip and im also surprised at the flip

Who did you think was the scum bussing?

[acryon]

I didn't see why a scum beef acted so lazy and "meh" about the gamestate if he was scum getting wagoned seemed like a big fuck you to his scum partner if he was scum also don't see him posting 431 as scum.

Idk I feel like town him cares a lot more, though that's possibly based of a biased sample

I'm inclined to agree with this thought-process based on the same sample that obviously couldn't be mentioned D1. It did feel quite different from that game.

3 tr's and a ton of scumleans whew what a fun game

This is probably better for town then the reverse.

acryon
Index
PK
I need to sort
can see all of them flipping scum

I KNEW someone else mentioned me with Index and PK before. Although it wasn't who I expected.

my guess for the scumteam is either me acryon and pisskop

How do we not start with Kokichi here? That hammer was horrible.

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[acryon]

To be fair, i enabled the quick hammer because.. well beef was incredibly scummy, its also easy to blame someone or blame a hammer when it is flipping read, hindsight is 20/20. You wouldnt be voting him rn if beef was indeed mafia

I think I would be. If Beef was scum, wouldn't that be a great spot for scum to hammer since it gets them instant cred?

P.edit: I agree with that.

[acryon]

So basically you are saying that you are voting for a behavior that couldve happen as either alignement ?
Kokichi not just quick hammered, he also incited ppl to give him hammer which is a nuance over a blatant scum quick hammer out of the blue (in the case beef fliped mefia)

Not necessarily. I think it's way more likely to have come from scum with Beef as town then it is for it to come from scum if Beef was scum. I don't give him town-credit for telling us what he was going to do beforehand. It's more likely just posturing transparency to me.

[acryon]

FTR, my scumread on him isn't incredibly strong, but considering my other scumread was NK'd, I think it's a good place as any to start.

[acryon]

@

Brafin

[/b]

That lynch on Beef was a blatant, scum-driven

: How and why ? Why was it blatantly scum driven?

TOWN does not push a quick lynch within a week of starting the game. Only scum. Town is not stupid; they want days to last as long as possible.

Given this thought process, what do you feel about Kokichi?

Yeah, Acryon might be scum looking for an easy push

Aside from me, who do you think is scum and why? You clearly thought Beef was scum, but haven't been able to tell much else from you in reads.


Re: Brafin v. Joey.

I am also very confused by many of these Brafin posts. Maybe formatting issues? Either way I'm inclined to say it feels like TvT. I do think the posts from Brafin feel a little try-hard, but that's not too dissimilar from their play in the last game I played with them where they were town.

Before I continue, I'd like to say 2 things: Piss response about "not trying to figure out why Rask was lynched" is scummy as frack. That is the only way we catch scum today, is by finding the motivation for last night's kill. That and the lynch is the only info we have.

The flip is relevant information; trying to figure out reasoning behind a kill is just as likely to lead us astray as it is to lead us to scum. I've played many games as scum where I literally chose the exact

opposite

for who it made sense for me to kill just to cause confusion. It's not worth chasing IMO.

[acryon]

That being said: Players, it's just mafia. just play!

[acryon]

Le reads le 100% accurate by le joey

InfernoDuck	Beta Emerald	Cuckichi	Pinocchio	Torque
???	???	???	???	???
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ PROB ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Le grill	Index	Dun	Acrylic	Piss
???	VT	???	???	???
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓

fixed

I know you're not on board with Kokichi-scum, but what is your town-read on him based on? Also why the townread on Index?

[acryon]

He's not townreading Koki, he's townreading me

Oh whoops. Well same question to him regarding you then.

[acryon]

He's not townreading Koki, he's townreading me

Oh whoops. Well same question to him regarding you then.

while being scumread makes it easier to find mefias, i find it rather annoying that im asked to explain all my reads regularly. Also my "read list" is much a tool i am using than a list i want ppl to react to every time

I have had a hard time determining whether or not Index's posts feel town or scum. I think they feel genuine, but you seem to have a better idea than me. I'm asking you to help me understand.

And TBF, you can't want people to follow you but then not explain the reads that would give them a reason to.

[acryon]

Not it doesnt

Mariar why do you townread me ?

You haven't tried to buddy me yet.
Plus your reaction to brain isn't the way you'd react as scum given we've went overreactions and stuff in our scum pt before. I think you're just town and yeah you've tricked me before but it feels correct here if not oh well
I also don't like how crayon just said "Oh Maria you're just obv town cause you are" Wtf I'm never obv town I'm always like lynchbait and shit and I didn't even post much to be tr when he made that statement it felt weird to me

FWIW, you're only further proving my point.

Like I can get Alisae feeling upset that this isn't rolemad upick but I don't think they'd get as upset as they're acting rn. It feels way over the top to not read/make excuses

I can buy this, but it's interesting that you and Joey feel so opposite on it.

[acryon]

That hammer was very bad. I thought the vote from Rask was even worse because he knew the hammer was going to come.

I didn't vote Beef in the end, but I was there in spirit, so I'm hard-pressed to give anyone much crap for being on it.

That hammer was very bad. I thought the vote from Rask was even worse because he knew the hammer was going to come. I didn't vote Beef in the end, but I was there in spirit, so I'm hard-pressed to give anyone much crap for being on it.

What even is this saying? 'I was there in spirit'. what a copout. Accept you weren't on it. I don't like this.

What?? "Accept you weren't a part of that bad thing that happened." In what way do I benefit by saying I was "there in spirit" as a part of a mislynch?

Did you even pressure kokichi? I don't recall anyone even really engaging him.

I did not, although I mentioned early on I didn't really like him.

Yeah, Acryon might be scum looking for an easy push

Yes.

I feel like you're better than sheeping this. I mentioned early on I didn't like him. If you can't understand why a quickhammer wouldn't make me feel better about him, then I can't help you.

Either way I'm inclined to say it feels like TvT.

How? They are talking past one another. thats not indicative. Their pushes could just be probes. One of them is town, though, at least.

"Feels" implies an element of gut. The whole back and forth reads more like blown up misunderstanding than intentional misrepresentation.

im pretty sure crayola is town, why do you scumread him kokichi

OMGUS, that's why.

Starting out by voting Kokichi makes sense. It's the most anti-town thing that was done thusfar IMO, aside from Rask who directly enabled it, but he is dead. I was more than happy to move off of Kokichi as the day went on if he decided to start scumhunting, but it's clear he doesn't have interest in that, so I think it's probably fine where it is.

This play from PK feels

weird

. Scumlean there.

Pint is super wrong, but likely town.

[acryon]

What?? "Accept you weren't a part of that bad thing that happened." In what way do I benefit by saying I was "there in spirit" as a part of a mislynch?

Im talking to more than just you about the comments re:beefwagon. What do you make of the people saying scum were on the beefwagon? Do you think scum would pass up such a beefwagon, and hide off it? Why were you

not

on the beefy wagon? what made you on the beffwagon 'in spirit' instead of 'in practice'? Can I find more ways to say 'beefwagon'?

This is my point. I would have been on the beefwagon; I just wasn't interested in being on it at a point where it was close to a lynch. I wasn't ready to end the day.

I mean just by the numbers it's likely that there was scum on the beefwagon, but given its speed, I don't think it's a necessity. It was a stupid fast wagon, but those can just as easily be comprised of all overeager town as they can of town + scum.

I did not, although I mentioned early on I didn't really like him.

Y U NO DO THIS THEN

Because there were bigger fish to fry, and I hadn't seen enough else from him.

I feel like you're better than sheeping this. I mentioned early on I didn't like him. If you can't understand why a quickhammer wouldn't make me feel better about him, then I can't help you.

Just poking the proverbial bear. I feel like you can give me more. Kokichi is lurking, and I don't particularly enjoy it. My only other game with him he was much, much more involved, albeit he had a bunch of other dangerrump friends with him.

So if you have a gut feeling that he is playing quite a bit differently, why are you not looking into that more?

"Feels" implies an element of gut. The whole back and forth reads more like blown up misunderstanding than intentional misrepresentation.

I disagree. It could be TvT, but I don't feel the need to dismiss it. not when one of them is a scumread, and one a townread. Would you be willing to vote Inferno? Why or why not?

Not at this point. Their play feels earnest, although way off the mark in some ways. It's not too dissimilar from the last game I played with them. Fairly solid townread for me ATM.

Starting out by voting Kokichi makes sense. It's the most anti-town thing that was done thusfar IMO, aside from Rask who directly enabled it, but he is dead. I was more than happy to move off of Kokichi as the day went on if he decided to start scumhunting, but it's clear he doesn't have interest in that, so I think it's probably fine where it is.

Sell me his policy? Who else can eat rope? Wanna wagon somebody? Let's move this hellgame forward. The giant hand demands blood.

Well my two biggest scumreads from yesterday are dead. Kokichi is my number one now because his early play yesterday pinged, the quickhammer was bad, and his play today has been uninspiring to say the least. I could see scum!Gamma, because there just doesn't seem to be a lot of content in his play, but that's a very slight read. Dunnstral has essentially said nothing; could easily see scum in that spot.

Pint is super wrong, but likely town.

Why? I'd vote him.

Posts like 372 and 641 feel like town thought-process. Obviously his thought-process is off, similar to InfernoBrafin, but I can see it coming from town.

[acryon]

Because there were bigger fish to fry, and I hadn't seen enough else from him.

Who is the big fish now?

Kokichi. He doesn't look like he is actually trying to solve the game. He is voting me because I "look like scum trying to push an easy wagon", yet when he was called out by Beefster for having lazy and opportunsitic votes, his response was:

What's the deal with this? These votes look lazy and opportunistic.

How? No one is even voting the last 2

While not the exact same scenario, guess how many votes were on Kokichi when I voted?

So if you have a gut feeling that he is playing quite a bit differently, why are you not looking into that more?

Honestly? he's on your wagon with me. Number 3 slot doesnt have to be scum, and since I didnt expect your wagon to explode I don't see it as opportunistic. How do you feel about his 'naked' vote?

See the point above. I don't think Kokichi is trying to solve the game. Day 1 consisted of chaos and impatience. Day 2 consists of OMGUS.

Not at this point. Their play feels earnest, although way off the mark in some ways. It's not too dissimilar from the last game I played with them. Fairly solid townread for me ATM.

is vomiting in my mouth a little a tell? I think atp they are one of the better lynches today.

My mind can be changed if someone can give me a good reason based on their posting that they are scum, but right now my read-through and my gut tells me it's town.

Well my two biggest scumreads from yesterday are dead.

Please get a readslist up. Or some suspects at least. I may not be set on you being scum, but your lack of definitive content will make you an easy mark for apathetic playerlists.


So we can agree on dunn and gamma?

Dunn yes. Gamma maybe not. Gamma is a lean-scum read based purely on PoE and unfamiliarity in his play.

Full readslist in order:

MariaR - Town
Joey_ - Town
InfernoBrafin - Lean-town
pinturicchio - Lean-town
Index Chan - Lean-town
Torque - Null
pisskop - Null
Gamma Emerald - Null (Lean-scum based on POE)
Dunnstral - Lean-scum
Kokichi Oma - Scum

[acryon]

Let's put InfernoBrafin and acryon in the ring!! That way, whichever the loser, we will lynch scum, and it will be funny to see which of them is better bussing his partner

Nope. Do you think Kokichi is town? Why?

[acryon]

So kiana is telling me, I'm scum for saying I'd hammer it beef reached L1 and then did it. Even though I said it way beforehand.

I don't see how saying you were going to do something beforehand means you can't be scum for doing it? But even if that were true, you're scum not for the quickhammer but because you aren't trying to solve the game.

Feel better about Index being town. I'm the much easier wagon to jump onto, so would've been very easy for scum!Index to come in with some reason to vote me and get that wagon to L-2 without drawing any suspicion.

[acryon]

awe cmon, you guys are annoying at least vote him for something else

What do you think about the allegation that he doesn't appear to be trying to solve the game?

[acryon]

awe cmon, you guys are annoying at least vote him for something else

What do you think about the allegation that he doesn't appear to be trying to solve the game?

while this seems and might be true to some extent, its also an observation that could apply to a bunch of other slot and thus doesnt look like its valid to find mefia

I can understand that argument, but then we have him trying to appear like he is. For instance:

Joey is a suspicious cat. May have to look over him tonight in rereading.

And then we have no follow up. Instead he just OMGUS's me. Then doesn't actually even try to expound at all on why I'm scum, and instead is defensive.

[acryon]

My goodness this thread has been dead. Guessing it has something to do with this being spring break time for people?

@Mod:

V/LA until Monday morning CST.

[acryon]

If you tr me you tr Kokichi. Back off

Nope.

The fact acryon is pushing Kokichi too makes me fine with having him in the scum pile considering I'm his top townread for "gut feelings" that just sounds like bs. It's interesting that he started pushing Kokichi right when he started getting heat.

1) I mentioned day 1 I didn't like Kokichi.

2) Do you think a single vote = heat? Hint: it does not.

[acryon]

Okay look at it this way acryon I am either
A) Scum with Kokichi
B) Scum who is defending town Kokichi
C) Town with a very strong reason to tr Kokichi

What one is more likely?

D) Town who is just wrong. Lots of people have strong reasons and are wrong.

If you tr me you tr Kokichi. Back off

Nope.

The fact acryon is pushing Kokichi too makes me fine with having him in the scum pile considering I'm his top townread for "gut feelings" that just sounds like bs. It's interesting that he started pushing Kokichi right when he started getting heat.

1) I mentioned day 1 I didn't like Kokichi.

2) Do you think a single vote = heat? Hint: it does not.

I see a lot of people building up to vote him.

Oh did you mean I pushed Kokichi right when Kokichi started getting heat, or right when I started getting heat? FWIW, I disagree with both as neither of us were really getting heat.

[acryon]

Let's take out the heat part then I don't think anything Kokichi has done is really scummy sure quickhammering was anti town but scum doing that is ???

You could try reading the other reasons I've posted. See 670. The quickhammer was just the catalyst.

[acryon]

I don't think Kokichi as scum openly goes for Joey_ at the start
the quick hammer bit is NAI as fuck he'd do it as town or scum but the fact a few people are scumreading him for it makes red alarms go off in my head

So your primary reason for saying the quickhammer was NAI is because from your experience with him he would do it as either alignment. So how are people scummy for scumreading him for it when your only real reason is personal experience? I don't have that same experience with him as you do.

crayon having me as lock town for barely any posts (at the time) felt weird cause I didn't really do much I think? So when I asked on it he was like "oh you're just obv town" and the fact he won't believe my tr on Kokichi for calling me "wrong" when he's been the wrong one so far is suspect as fuck to me

Just because I was wrong on things D1 (pretty much everyone was BTW) doesn't mean I'm going to give up my future reads and just sheep someone I think is town.

Wisdom, like Inferno, is town.

and I mostly tr torque on tone and his convo with me felt legit he doesn't seem to really have an agenda he's just explaining his reads

This is how I feel, although POE is telling me I may be wrong.

i dont know who to flip honestly, i hardtownread pinnochios then scumread his lines d2, maybe i should reread

what was different?

I agree actually. I've had him as a town-read, and his D1 play felt townish, but he has just been doing

nothing

today, despite clearly being around.

[acryon]

so basically his playstyle

He even said he would consider replacing out... I mean come on.

Literally never said this or considered it.

[acryon]

Joey is crayon normally a bit uh

i dont wanna be rude but you get me

I'm worried I'm playing with a bunch of trolls in which case town might as well quit now. Can't imagine a better environment for scum to thrive.

Sorry @acryon, got it wrong, you said "town might as well quit now", I remembered incorrectly, thought you said "in which case I might as well quit now".

That's fair enough.

[acryon]

MariaR - Town

why is maria town?

Torque actually explained it in a way that I struggled to put into words of my own:

harumaki is playing the game like she has no agenda which is villagery

Today has been weirder to be sure with the hardline defense of Kokichi, but overall in the absence of scummy content, I base my reads on tone, and MariaR's tone has always felt town to me.

Are there specific posts you have an issue with from her? I'm slightly concerned about how aggressive she is being in her defense of Kokichi, but at the same time I have a hard time seeing scum this aggressive in defending him.

[acryon]

So your primary reason for saying the quickhammer was NAI is because from your experience with him he would do it as either alignment. So how are people scummy for scumreading him for it when your only real reason is personal experience? I don't have that same experience with him as you do.

Quickhammering in and of itself is NAI
quick hammering can come from town it can come from scum it's an anti town action yes but that doesn't auto=scummy it's how the person did it and acted around said quick hammer and correct me if I'm wrong you're sring him for the quick hammer itself (the nai part) not the reasons/actions he did around it (the AI part)

I agree with this. It is not necessarily scum. It is anti-town. Made sense to start the day voting someone who did something anti-town. Doesn't seems crazy to me. Good enough place to start as any IMO.

Just because I was wrong on things D1 (pretty much everyone was BTW) doesn't mean I'm going to give up my future reads and just sheep someone I think is town.

Mafia is about teamwork at the end of the day between the town. If you just keep going "I'm gonna keep going and not listen to anyone else" especially your top townread that isn't gonna get you far. It makes it seem like you want a ML.

I don't think I'm doing that. But I'm not going to just take your unconfirmed word for it that he is town. It's my reasons and gut against yours.

[acryon]

I agree with this. It is not necessarily scum. It is anti-town. Made sense to start the day voting someone who did something anti-town. Doesn't seems crazy to me. Good enough place to start as any IMO.

this just sounds like you care more about having justified votes than finding scum

It's more about using logic in my determination of where to begin scumhunting, but ok.

[acryon]

Wow nothing has happened in the last 24 hours.

You should not be prodging with how active you've been

Agree with this. Adds to the weirdness of his play.

@Joey: Who is scum?

[acryon]

VOTE: acryon

At least write a case so people have something to talk about. No one is saying anything so no one is responding to anything.

[acryon]

you mean so you can respond to it

Eh. Defense is just exhausting when one person thinks they know something and the other person knows they're wrong but can't explain it other than that.

That being said I've never heard of withholding reasons for a read based on not wanting someone to be able to respond to it. Either you don't have good enough reasons and/or you're being lazy.

[acryon]

no, thats how i play

if i case you, youll respond and look townier

people already find you scummy so i dont need to convince them

so no case

This is silly. People are clearly having trouble getting into this game. The problem with not casing at all means

no one

can respond to it.

What if I just pinky-promise and tell you I won't respond to it at all?

[acryon]

nah

I've only been signing up for one game at a time because my last couple have been pretty lively, and then we have this one. Just throw me a bone here.

[acryon]

if you want content, create it

you dont need me for it

I think I've tried doing that, but unfortunately it's not really doable on my own. I've made reasons for Kokichi-scum and been brushed off because of a disagreement with the quickhammer being AI, which I can understand, but gotten no real response to my other points on him aside from Joey. I've engaged MariaR on her reads. I've thoroughly responded to questions on my reads, giving people info to respond to.

If I'm not creating content, then I'm not sure who is.

idk about acryon
I think his playstyle might just piss people off
honestly wis he comes off a bit like you but lacking in charisma

I do better IRL. You can't see my smile behind the PC

[acryon]

i think pin is town gamma

Why?

Wow nothing has happened in the last 24 hours.

You should not be prodging with how active you've been

Agree with this. Adds to the weirdness of his play.

@Joey: Who is scum?

real answer is not town and it describes how im going to move forward after my meat blunder

Fair enough, but keep in mind almost everyone was a part of the meat blunder (although he looked like textbook scum so calling it a blunder seems overly negative).

[acryon]

and MariaR's tone has always felt town to me.

and I've already locked Maria as a villager way before that post due to tone

tone, tone, tone

bullshit

you both can't justify it because you are scum trying to buddy her

I'm willing to accept Torque can be scum, but not because he's townreading Maria based on tone. That's a bad reason.

[acryon]

VOTE: Torque

But Kokichi likely needs to die next.

[acryon]

so if torque flips scum, you'll vote kokichi?

I would say yes at this moment, but the flip from the NK can change things.

[acryon]

just the nk? associatives dont matter?

They do, but Torque's mentions of Kokichi could fall on either side of the fence, so it's fairly null.

[acryon]

yeah, but see, if torque flipped scum, the normal thing would be to search for associatives, in general, not just with kokichi. instead you seem predetermined to vote kokichi

pedit @acryon

Because I think he is scum. I could also definitely see Torque as scum, but those reads are independent of each other. Especially given the flow of this game, I'm not particularly optimistic about finding much via associatives.

[acryon]

yo wis talk to me about the pinnochio's tr

i liked how he handled my acryon vote, scum him probably doesnt say anything since he got one more vote for his mislynch but he remembered that i had stated im not voting acryon and questioned it
also how he wants to continue pushing acryon when he sees another wagon rising
in general I get the impression he has a strong read and wants to push it

Pint is likely town.

and what read development
he's latched onto what basically is a policy lynch

This is a misrep (and you're not the only one to have made it). My initial vote for Kokichi was based on policy--voting someone that did something anti-town just seems like a good place to start. But very quickly that developed into legit reasons for him being scum, which I have outlined numerous times despite you and others pretending I haven't.

just because his stance on the beef flip and or wagon dont make any sens as mefia. He started d2 saying that while he wasnt on the wagon, he thought the wagon was onto scum etc it makes hardly any sens to be this transparent about your incoherent behavior idk and tonewise (yes tone wisdom) i think hes fine, he looks sincere in most of his post, his reads development looks organic

i dont agree with any of that
he had the same tone when i played with scum-him

I try to play scum like I would play town so my tone is usually the same either way (at least I try to make it be).

[acryon]

you're scum not for the quickhammer but because you aren't trying to solve the game.

is this it?
because "not trying to solve the game" means lack of effort and i know tons of players who put in little to no effort yet still flip town
so still a policy lynch

Close. Try this one.

I can understand that argument, but then we have him trying to appear like he is. For instance:

Joey is a suspicious cat. May have to look over him tonight in rereading.

And then we have no follow up. Instead he just OMGUS's me. Then doesn't actually even try to expound at all on why I'm scum, and instead is defensive.

Everything in the history of mafia is fakeable. It's just how genuine the answer/post you think is. I could easily fake half the stuff I type yes it's just how much do you believe.

Yet you have an issue with people townreading you for tone?

[acryon]

Close. Try this one.

i saw that too
omgus and being defensive arent scummy
still policy

It's clear you've lost yourself in the tunnel. But feel free to continue your misrep.

It is not strictly OMGUS. He has

attempted to look like he is doing things

, highlighted by the post I quoted, and has done nothing. That is the distinction between him and someone else that's doing nothing.

Yet you have an issue with people townreading you for tone?

With you yes.

Ok.

so basically you have absolutely nothing, yet you have such a strong scumread where even if torque flipped scum, you would still go after kokichi instead of looking at associatives

i cannot find any town motivation in this

I think he is scum. Also clearly I would look at associatives to an extent. I mean I already did and commented on them re: Torque and Kokichi. I just don't have much confidence in them leading me to something more concrete than what I feel I have on Kokichi.

Again, another misrep.

[acryon]

I'm starting to get worried about how hard you are trying to hyperbolize comments from me, and ignore the actual context.

[acryon]

@Dunnstral: Why are you not voting?

[acryon]

@Dunnstral: Why are you not voting?

I am voting

Oh sorry. The votecount has you as both voting and not voting.

Not Voting: Dunnstral
With 11 Alive, it's 6 to Lynch![/b]

Different question then. Of the other wagons, which one do you think is most likely on scum?

[acryon]

Or maybe acryon is 1-BP goon to counter my role, idk

Or no matter who you targeted, scum RB'd you after your "softclaim"?

[acryon]

We are both town Pint.

[acryon]

Well then, what do we do. I'm not comfortable with acryon being alive after my night action. We could lynch Torque, but I'll not be here tomorrow to lynch acryon

How does the night-action at all implicate me as scum? I could be town BP. Town JK could have blocked you. Scum RB could have blocked you. In all of these scenarios, me being scum is not a requirement. I think you're just letting the tail wag the dog at this point.

[acryon]

Well then, what do we do. I'm not comfortable with acryon being alive after my night action. We could lynch Torque, but I'll not be here tomorrow to lynch acryon

How does the night-action at all implicate me as scum? I could be town BP. Town JK could have blocked you. Scum RB could have blocked you. In all of these scenarios, me being scum is not a requirement. I think you're just letting the tail wag the dog at this point.

No.

the question here is flawed. You should want to know how he thought this was going to implicate you. not on what if I'm town. Why he did it like that.


why do you townread him?

Because I townread him most of D1, and my issues with him today were due to tunneling when it didn't seem to make sense, although it makes some more sense now given his claim. His claim makes sense overall.

[acryon]

Well then, what do we do. I'm not comfortable with acryon being alive after my night action. We could lynch Torque, but I'll not be here tomorrow to lynch acryon

How does the night-action at all implicate me as scum? I could be town BP. Town JK could have blocked you. Scum RB could have blocked you. In all of these scenarios, me being scum is not a requirement. I think you're just letting the tail wag the dog at this point.

I mean I understand his reaction from a town standpoint, I had a similar one in an older game

I do too. But at this point it feels like trying to make the evidence to support the read as opposed to evaluating the evidence and being willing to adjust.

[acryon]

VOTE: punto

I get how it is a convenient read. But do you really think his plan was to fake softclaim vig D1 as openly as he did so he could fully fake it later? I have to believe scum would be a

little

more subtle than that.

[acryon]

I'm a JOAT and one of my shots is a vig that's why Pins claim sounds like BS

So you

claimed

so you could CC Pint to justify voting him, but then you aren't voting him? Walk me through that. You are now supporting the idea that 1) there are TWO one-shot vig roles for town and that 2) it just so happened that Pint suspected a mafia BP? There is zero logic being used at this point.

IMO one of MariaR/Pint has to be scum here, but I believed Pint for the reasons I mentioned and I have a hard time seeing why scum would fake what MariaR did here, so I have no idea who is what.

Leaving my vote where it is because I don't think any of this makes Torque any less scum.

[acryon]

Sorry I must have missed that part.

[acryon]

Mariar's play make 0 sens ever as scum

Yeah I have a hard time seeing that. But I was pretty sure scum doesn't soft like Pint did. But I definitely don't see a world where both are town.

[acryon]

Does it make any difference if I say that I'm actually a two shot vigilante and I was lying so if I was roleblocked I wouldn't get roleblocked again and shoot acryon?

That seems even

less

likely. Would create the possibility of a day 3 MyLo by my calculation.

[acryon]

Maybe we have a sk ? is sk possible in this setup ?

It seems possible he is SK, but impossible that he is 2-shot vig. It's actually even worse than I thought. It could lead to a game over on night 2.

D1: 9v3
D2: 5v3 (mislynch town, scum NK town, both vig-shoot town)
On night 2, it's game over if town mislynches and vig shoots another townie.

[acryon]

Sorry, first post doesn't include Beef in playerlist so thought it was 12 players.

I'm right about day 3 MyLo though.

[acryon]

I really think that nobody claiming why acryon died makes me confirm that acryon is scum. If he was town and thinks I'm town (which he has stated), maybe he would claim if he was a BP? Why is a JOAT counterclaiming me instead of someone who protected acryon/acryon himself?

If someone JK'd you or protected me last night, how does them claiming here help anything? It literally confirms nothing. Same goes for me. No one even knows whether or not you actually shot at me.

[acryon]

We should lynch acryon. Have pin shoot torque and have Maria shoot who she wants. Or use another shot. Doc on Maria

Shocked you feel this way.

We should lynch acryon. Have pin shoot torque and have Maria shoot who she wants. Or use another shot. Doc on Maria

This is the plan. Pin I assume you agree to this?
Maria how do you feel about this?

Yes, I agree. I've been scumreading acryon since the beginning of this game and I won't shoot anyone without saying it out loud. I have no problem with the leash on me and I have no problems if you want to lynch me, but do it tomorrow after I use my second shot. I'll probably get roleblocked/jailkept, that's my only issue with this plan

Maybe let's not go with a plan that the CC'd Vig is on board with...

@Mod

: Can we get a VC?

[acryon]

Ok yeah, acryon has a point. Is weird that Maria agrees with a plan that I'm agreeing too, when she CCed just for getting me lynched.

Yeah. Something doesn't quite add up here.

[acryon]

I think acryon should claim.

I'm not going to claim until I absolutely have to. My claim won't do anything to help the discussion really, so it's likely better if we avoid it.

[acryon]

Notice how the mod used the phrasing “if i told you” over “if i answered that question” implying the favoritism would apply if index knew the answer to that question. Also there wouldnt be any favoritism toward scum there but only town thus the answer/information is pro-town. Tell me im reaching again pk/wis

Eh, this is reaching. Even if you're right, I'm of the opinion that we ignore this stuff to keep the game straight.

yo Torque seems to have given up, either that or is waiting out the wagon or smth like that
I really don't want pin to go free but I think I'm willing to give him a day just to try to kill a scum

This. If you want to lynch the person that was CC'd, lynch Pint. If you don't, you lynch Torque.

[acryon]

I understand this might just be personal philosophy, but I think that is treading into a gray area that we don't want to be in.

The mod is not a part of the game. Trying to pull additional information the mod didn't intend to offer up in their posts is wrong IMO.

[acryon]

I understand this might just be personal philosophy, but I think that is treading into a gray area that we don't want to be in.

The mod is not a part of the game. Trying to pull additional information the mod didn't intend to offer up in their posts is wrong IMO.

I think it's fine to let the players make whatever they want out of things the mod says. I feel like trying to damage control just makes things worse.

I disagree. Is the spirit of the game for us to get into a back and forth about the wording of the mod when all he was trying to say was "I don't want to tell you"? Maybe I'm a purist, but to me that violates the spirit of the game. That's not supposed to be part of the game.

[acryon]

Hey guys. Just phone posting quick but I’m V/LA. I’ll be back Monday morning as usual.

Skimmed over things for now and looks like we are claiming. I’m VT.

[acryon]

Back. Going to do a read-through today.

[acryon]

Back. Going to do a read-through today.

dude the day already ended

Are you serious?

Are you kidding me with this number of pages?

[acryon]

THIRTY

pages since Saturday...

[acryon]

Also put ppp=200 in the url, preferibly before the ? And after the F=23
It increases the posts per page to 200 so you won't have to read as many pages
You're welcome

Ooooh pro-tip. Thanks.

[acryon]

Yeah no.

VOTE: Kokichi

[acryon]

Was acryon your partner?

Yes.

This was such a weird game for me. Those last two days happened pretty much entirely during my weekend V/LA so this win was pretty much entirely Alisae's heavy lifting.

[acryon]

Really the biggest problem that town had I think was rushing into lynches. I mean I was supposedly one of the most widely suspected slots, yet we went through two whole days where I didn't even say anything really (due to timing of V/LA) and the town rushed into to lynch someone else and just ignored me.

Other than that idk that anyone specific played particularly badly.

[acryon]

Really the biggest problem that town had I think was rushing into lynches. I mean I was supposedly one of the most widely suspected slots, yet we went through two whole days where I didn't even say anything really (due to timing of V/LA) and the town rushed into to lynch someone else and just ignored me.

Other than that idk that anyone specific played particularly badly.

Gamma flipped town because alisae was mafia and thus we didnt need to wait around the corner for you to comeback because we hardtrd alisae, you were always scum from poe

A mafioso in hand is worth two in the bush.

[acryon]

How else would this have played out though? Even if we didn't auto-win now, we block you tonight, shoot Joey, and then lynch you tomorrow.

[acryon]

If I knew the win was 50%
I would've lynched your ass way sooner.

If that's your stance then the right play was lynching me earlier either way. Because even without the 50% we win tonight.

[acryon]

But I get your frustration anyway. Sucks if your win-con isn't clear.

[acryon]

Eh he did nothing malicious, and helped facilitate a game where at least some amount of people had fun.

Also now that I look at it, Alisae isn't quite right about it being achieving parity. We need to outnumber town.

I think it's possible the game was still going on, which is why extended twilights aren't great... Although like I said, even without that, the path to victory was clear.

[acryon]

Oh

Well it's GG either way at this point.

[acryon]

Well... this happened. I had work last night and had to go to bed extra early so I could get up early today and... well, ya'll went and revealed your roles when the game wasn't going to end yet.

So, here's a few things I've noted having run this game:

1. I apologize if you signed up to play a Role Madness game due to it being uPick; I am wanting to get back into mafia but wasn't up to playing yet; so I wanted to mod and was in a Smash Bros. mood. Sorry if it wasn't fun; my schedule is so wacky that maybe modding isn't for me.
2. I also apologize for not being clear with wincons; I was trying to keep the serial killer a secret until they became necessary and someone figured it out, not realizing this would constitute a bastard game as, having checked the normal guidelines, it says serial killer is normal(?) and thusly I didn't think it was out of the question; my phrasing should have been better.
3. The balances, despite ending in a mafia win, was not my greatest idea. I figured since there were two threats I would limit the mafia, but I suppose I made it too-townsided (Making it all the more ironic when scum won.)

So, with those notes taken, I apologize once again for this game, for wasting your time, and I will no longer be modding games for the forseeable future. With that in mind, thanks for playing.

RED TEAM WINS.

You didn't waste my time Definitely some learning opportunities for you as a mod, but we couldn't have played at all without you, so thanks for modding Key!

Really great fakeclaim by Maria.

Alisae went try-hard and totally killed it during my absence.

As I said before, I think the big mistake people made was the "acryon is scum; we'll lynch him later" attitude. I've always heard and warned of the dangers of not executing when you have the chance, but this game really showed it best.

[acryon]

hey

Hey