Gunner Mafia [Endgame]

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Gorkington

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Spiffeh]

hey guys I'm excited to catch all the scum

[Spiffeh]

omg my posts look so ugly without my banner

[Spiffeh]

early reads are that creature is town, brian probably is too.

I think I'm being buddied.

Do you have any previous history with Ausuka that would indicate they might buddy you early on as scum?

Because to me this just looks like early reads and jumping to the conclusion that they're buddying you with a not-even-that-hard "Brian is probably town" is kinda weird

[Spiffeh]

GreyICE is probably town as well.

no

[Spiffeh]

Why can you guys just quote the section you are replying to instead of the entire wall

[Spiffeh]

Panopticon's posts are all pretty bad

Especially if that's Varsoon which I think it is

[Spiffeh]

The only thing odd about Quick is that he's refusing to answer this very simple question:

How did you read it as 'this slot is confirmed scum' without thinking it was weird that nobody else was voting it/talking about it Quick?

but that's not really scummy?

Quick behaving weirdly and not being overly helpful isn't alignment indicative as far as I remember (although idk the last time I played with him)

And he continues to double down that he's doing nothing wrong despite the pressure which kinda reads more like stubborn town to me than scum

[Spiffeh]

And later says he is serious with his troll vote.
Which is the same troll vote I did in my opening post so I have trouble with him not seeing it.

It's pretty obvious to me from the context of his first post that it was a serious vote

Not all that intelligent, but serious

[Spiffeh]

Ok I'm all caught up

Brian Skies is easily the scummiest player in the game and should be wagoned/lynched

[Spiffeh]

If Quick's claim is ambiguous maybe we should leave it that way since it's not even 24 hours into the game?

[Spiffeh]

there is about a 0% chance i keep up if y’all continue at this speed so i consider checking urself and considering if your posts are worth it

My posts are always worth it

[Spiffeh]

I mean you haven't listed me as a town read yet so you can't be that great

[Spiffeh]

But Gorkington you literally have the same reads as me without me even having to say them look how in sync we are if you're town!!

[Spiffeh]

hi MariaR!

[Spiffeh]

MariaR can we lynch Brian Skies?

[Spiffeh]

Ok I'm all caught up

Brian Skies is easily the scummiest player in the game and should be wagoned/lynched

You did the same thing in Gay Mafia and we were both town. Learn a new trick or I'm voteparking you.

Maybe you should do town things if you're town

Also interesting that you'd vote park me for behaving similarly to a game where I was town

[Spiffeh]

I didn't see anything from my posting up until that point that was worthy of a townread from someone, and I've never played with her before so I doubt it was a meta read. I also think that if she really had a reason to think I was town, there would either have been some sort of explanation as to why she was townreading me or that she wouldn't have been so quick to 180 her read and vote me.

I agree with Toranaga awhile back who said that your immediate jump to "I'm being buddied" sounded like fake paranoia

I don't really understand why that was your thought process rather than Ausuka just sharing some of her early reads. It's not like her town read on you looked all that confident. The way you reacted seems like an easy way for scum to look like they're "suspicious" of someone and I don't see why you'd jump to that conclusion so early over something so trivial as town.

[Spiffeh]

Ok, I see what you mean, but why immediately assume you're being buddied from a player you've never seen before rather than prodding them and asking why they're town reading you?

Yeah that is a pretty garbage ISO to town read but that doesn't make Brian's reaction to it much better.

[Spiffeh]

^ to Toranaga

[Spiffeh]

Gorkypie I really don't like the manner in which you chose to engage with Quick

I feel like it's been a common thing to say that Quick has been trolling/being intentionally useless and beyond being a little defensive when being wagoned early on I feel like he's bounced back nicely and been contributing? It may not be up to your standards or maybe not all that readable for you but I think saying that he's been shitposting for 10 pages is pretty disingenuous.

Also, it's pretty obvious from his opening posts that Quick trips over his words a lot so you pointing out logical inconsistencies with his posting isn't all that compelling and I feel like town!you should know that? So 680 and 681 don't really sit well with me.

If you're scum reading Quick which I think you might be can you help me see why?

[Spiffeh]

I think Panopticon looks p. bad and no one is talking about them

It looks like they arbitrarily picked Creature and later Quick as scum reads, because I never really saw an explanation beyond quoting what someone else said and despite there being a lot of Quick content since they don't look like they've genuinely been evaluating his alignment.

And scum!Creature and scum!Quick are probably the two worst opinions to have in the game rn so

[Spiffeh]

maybe 10 pages was an overexaggeration but the last 4-5 pages quick was pretty clearly just completely shitposting and i) it was super irritating to read and ii) quick is jokey and useless as scum from my limited knowledge of his scumgame.

if i was trying to vote and push quick and not trying to get him to do things i could understand the complaint, but i feel like you just saw me push him and then ignored literally everything in terms of the actual context of what happened in that conversation.

I literally went through his ISO looking for shitposts and yes, there are a few interspersed between actual content posts. How is that different from me or you or pretty much anyone else? You're perpetuating the narrative that he's being useless when that's not the case.

If you don't think he's scum then that makes the engagement make even less sense to me?
For the record, this is why I thought you were scum reading him:

im only okay with lynching quick if we actually lynch quick and dont run him up, get 60 pages of noise because thats what happens when you wagon quick and then decide that we dont want to lynch him.

Because I've never known you to be ok with lynching anyone you didn't have some sort of scum read on.

[Spiffeh]

like. his ausuka vote is really weak and its gross in a lot of ways to have that while just shitposting around.

Can you talk more about this?

Why didn't you lead with something like this? It would have at least made sense that you had some basis for the interaction. Instead, it looked like you were picking a fight based on something that isn't even accurate so you could be "passionate" about something.

[Spiffeh]

spiff is possibly just being bad. theres some aspects to his push i get and other aspects that just require him to be barely even trying to parse me that im trying to reconcile. i also just dont understand why he would prioritize parsing me when im one of the easiest players to townbin when im town and invested. him calling me scum instead of trying to work with me before going that route just seems baffling to me.

You're right I should just not point anything out that I find scummy because it's you

Also I literally asked you to explain why you were scum reading Quick (which I thought you were) in the very first post I called you out on so idk why you're saying I'm not trying to work with you

[Spiffeh]

And yes, the first post of that interaction you asked him his town and scum reads, but the manner in which you did it was to make him look bad. The whole first part of that post was about how useless he was being, and I explained why that wasn't the case.

You did a scummy thing, I called it out. Idk why you're acting so incredulous at me rn

I am obviously willing to let you do your thing and I don't think I've done anything that is preventing you from doing that

this is @Gorkington

[Spiffeh]

it feels way more like youre trying to pin some shit on me than trying to figure out why im thinking what im thinking?if you just want to parse where my head is at, ask me questions, dont immediately call me scum and expect me not to be a defensive shithead about it. lol.

p-edit: i dont understand how you can look at that post and think "gork's intention here is to make quick look bad so he can get him lynched".ive explained why it was the case in the context of his recent play and youre ignoring that to continue pushing this shitty justification for your push on me.if i pushed you in mafiosi for reasons that you thought were wrong you would have called me shit at mafia and garbage. pardon me for just being incredibly annoyed and distracted by it.

I explained what bothered me about the interaction and followed that up with a question. Nothing about that is unreasonable or "immediately calling you scum". Yeah it was accusatory because I wanted you to answer for it.

If you're scum I believe your intention there would be to act like you were doing something while also making Quick look bad and keeping him in the limelight since he's a pretty easy target. I figured you'd see the same thing I saw in Quick which is why the interaction stood out to me.

Also FYI in Mafiosi I admitted several times that I understood why people weren't outright town reading me just that it was stupid to actually have a scum read on me based on my meta

I see you have admitted that you weren't as clear as you thought you were, which is fine. I can see that your frustration with Quick could have colored the way you came across. Also, your push back against me gives me gut feels of towniness so I'm willing to drop it just NEVER QUESTION ME EVER AGAIN.

[Spiffeh]

Centipede is someone I haven't really paid attention to, so I'll probs look at them soon or later or never

[Spiffeh]

Get a wagon going on him and I'd back it.I'd actually kind of like to see you off Brian and onto Hopkirk, personally, but Panopticon looks more interesting than Brian as a wagon to me also, which makes me wonder why you're spinning your wheels there.I can't even recall the last point anyone really advanced much on him - though I'll admit 10 pages back only takes us to yesterday evening, but still

Refresh your stale read or move?

My read's not stale Brian is still scummy

[Spiffeh]

No GI I’m p. sure playing without knowledge of your alignment is against the rules (the “play to win” one specifically) so you should probs rectify that

[Spiffeh]

because he was reading the interaction wrong and continually refusing to acknowledge that and instead rejustifying his point?

I thought you said that you came across differently than you intended? I still stick to what I initially read it as, it's just a matter of whether frustration got in the way of you actually scum hunting or not.

[Spiffeh]

Elli are you scum? Also who is the scum you have?

I’m like 20 pages behind somehow why did this happen

[Spiffeh]

You’re no fun

Also idk why you’re acting like you’re getting lynched you aren’t even the leading wagon rn

[Spiffeh]

There's also Spiffeh I simply don't know how to read

Just assume I'm town in every game ever and never question it

[Spiffeh]

This is all their posts by page 5....

That is a lot of posts for not being able to keep up.

That is 13 posts in ~3 hours... They make up ~11% of the posts at that point in time...

So they COULD keep up earlier, but now all the sudden they can't

Thread has been open for 26 hours with 885 posts. That averages one post every ~1.7 min. For the first 5 pages the thread was averaging one post every ~1.6 per minute. Pretty much the same as it is now.

Ausuka has made on average a post every 48.75 min... And they are saying they can't keep up.

You need to stop

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE:

[Spiffeh]

I feel in my heart that GreyIce and Bins are town

[Spiffeh]

I feel in my heart that GreyIce and Bins are town

i feel literally the exact opposite.

Can you explain why?

[Spiffeh]

Ausuka is kinda scummy

[Spiffeh]

Not really getting why people are scum reading Centipede, I just feel no type of way about them

Elli's ISO early on as town is always pretty garbage so I don't really find his lack of effort all that concerning.

Tbh the worst part of that slot is that Chara isn't posting at all.

[Spiffeh]

All I know is these wagons seem to snowball very quickly. Interested to see if the same people are consistently the 2-5th votes.

This is something a town player literally never says.

If a town player believes this to be an actual tell, they keep their mouths shut and observe how the wagons progress in order to find people that are likely scum based on it. The tell immediately becomes useless the moment you mention it.

A scum player will make this nothing-post to make it seem like they're contributing when in actuality they have nothing to say and tells us nothing about their thoughts on the game.

[Spiffeh]

Ausuka is kinda scummy

To expand, I feel like she's taking advantage of Quick's inability to let go of back-and-forths to make it look like she's doing something when she's actually just upping her post count by continuing to respond to him and it's amounting to nothing in terms of reads or effort.

I feel like town should have realized that that interaction was useless a long time ago but she continues to engage with him about useless stuff.

[Spiffeh]

Oh we shouldn't lynch Centi I have a 100% read rate on one of the slots and the other can quote on quote "solve the game" after one day. It's better to give them a day but meh I'm not gonna stop ya

I feel like if the first part is true then you should be more passionate about them not getting lynched today?

[Spiffeh]

Yeah Bins' continued focus on Quick's claim seems like busy work and I take back the read I had on her FROM MY HEART

HOW COULD YOU BETRAY IT BINS???

[Spiffeh]

Is he though?
The best case I could describe on him is the odd reaction to Auska.
From what I've read of analysis of her posts and his posts at the time...I actually agree that his reaction was generally warranted.

Now, I can see you still thinking that's scummy, but...

1. Has he done nothing else worth voting over since?
2. Why aren't you advocating for him if you believe in the vote strong enough to park on it while the rest of the game is clearly ignoring him as an option now (and, indeed, some are starting to town sort him while you sit there silently)
3. You really have no *stronger* scum read on anyone else for any reason? (<--this is the part making me curl my toes at your play slightly)

Whassup?
I want to put you in a town sort - why you making it hard?

I feel better about Brian after his push on Hopkirk. I can understand being a little sketched out by Ausuka's town read based on what he had posted at the time. I still think calling it buddying was a little extreme but someone fairly pointing out that "buddying" means different things to different people.

I'm curious as to why you're so focused on my thoughts as from what I recall we've never played in a game together before?

[Spiffeh]

it's fairly empty and similar to how I like to feign importance and interest in the game as scum

Is it bad that I kinda think this is how you're playing rn?

[Spiffeh]

just grab each other's cocks and stroke until the deadline rolls around?

Have you not played mafia before?

[Spiffeh]

@Gork I'm almost done my catchup and spoiler alert: I'll be voting for him!

Quick, you're not doing anything wrong. Ausuka is doing something wrong.

[Spiffeh]

Oh because that was stupid

People's schedules change, just because Ausuka was able to keep up early on doesn't mean she's lying about being able to keep up 50 pages later

[Spiffeh]

Toranaga is being replaced and may no longer post.

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: tchill

All I know is these wagons seem to snowball very quickly. Interested to see if the same people are consistently the 2-5th votes.

This is something a town player literally never says.

If a town player believes this to be an actual tell, they keep their mouths shut and observe how the wagons progress in order to find people that are likely scum based on it. The tell immediately becomes useless the moment you mention it.

A scum player will make this nothing-post to make it seem like they're contributing when in actuality they have nothing to say and tells us nothing about their thoughts on the game.

For this and the fact that he has yet to do anything other than cry about being scum read.

I'm pretty much caught up but I heavily skimmed the last 10 or so pages so I might go back to those at some point.

People I didn't really pay much attention to that I probably should: Thor, Srceenplay, Hopkirk, Brigand Vvulf, Nero Cain

Hopkirk and Nero Cain seem town from the few posts of theirs I have read, the other three I pretty much completely ignored

[Spiffeh]

Gorkington do you want to say words to each other?

Idk about what but you seem cool I guess

[Spiffeh]

Maria makes me feel no type of way so I hope Elli explains that instead of trusting we'll take his word for it

[Spiffeh]

I don't know what that was

[Spiffeh]

Ok I read over the last 10 pages more carefully and have come to the conclusion that Nero Cain is obviously town, especially comparing it to the scum games Gorkington linked.

[Spiffeh]

i like centipede. i'll be using his reads as a basis and i'll be going back to make sure there's valid reasoning behind the reads.

Hi, you previously hopped on a cent wagon with no reasoning and now you seem to town read them enough to use their reads as a baseline.

Can you explain why you initially thought Centipede was scummy and what made you change your mind?

[Spiffeh]

GI your Nero Cain read is unfortunate

[Spiffeh]

i think panoptic is my biggest scumread. >.>

pls elaborate

[Spiffeh]

All I know is these wagons seem to snowball very quickly. Interested to see if the same people are consistently the 2-5th votes.

Tchill why did you feel the need to say this? Wouldn't this kind of tell use all of it's utility when it was made public knowledge that this is something you're paying attention to?

[Spiffeh]

I'm not understanding the 2nd question? Does me pointing that out take away it's relevance? Maybe but I doubt scum is afraid of my opinion atm or even bothered with it at all. I highly doubt that statement keeps scum from doing that.

Yeah if scum know that that is something you're paying attention to wouldn't that already make that information useless because they know to be wary of it?

I just see that post as way more beneficial for scum than for town: Town would probably keep that quiet and actually see if anything interesting comes from it and announcing it completely defeats the purpose. Scum would say something like that to make it look like they're doing something when they're actually not.

Also please answer this:

i like centipede. i'll be using his reads as a basis and i'll be going back to make sure there's valid reasoning behind the reads.

Hi, you previously hopped on a cent wagon with no reasoning and now you seem to town read them enough to use their reads as a baseline.

Can you explain why you initially thought Centipede was scummy and what made you change your mind?

[Spiffeh]

Ok what about the way they did that felt town to you? If possible please cite certain posts.

[Spiffeh]

What post are you referring to?

[Spiffeh]

spiff can you expand on where your head is at right now wrt pan and grey?

GreyICE is just a bunch of different gut reasons that culminate into an overall town lean

I found the way in which he approached the criticisms people had about him not looking at his role PM to be town. I feel like he would be better off just letting Quick bury himself/spam the thread if he were scum, but he advocates for his policy lynch multiple times which not only brings a lot of attention to himself but matches the frustration he claimed to have had when everyone was spamming. I liked the way he approached Brigand Vvulf's Nero read to be because Brigand Vvulf was basically an enigma at that point and I feel that letting him continue to be unhelpful would have suited scum!GreyICE more than the potential credit he'd get for actually engaging with him.

It's not like any of this couldn't be faked by scum!GI, I just feel like it's not.

Pan I suspected earlier on mostly because I thought tn was actually Varsoon and I figured Varsoon would know better than to have Creature and Quick as scum reads. They also fit the "engaging with Quick unnecessarily" category which I'm sketched out by Ausura for but til that point tn had been consistently scum reading Quick so it makes more sense coming from him. I haven't paid much attention to them since because tn is a chronic quote-waller and I can't be bothered to recontextualize myself ten times in one post, and I haven't really read your ~case~ on them so I should probably take a look at their more recent posts after my class!

[Spiffeh]

Then I just went with his reads from one point. Yes he actually opens the door to the possibility I'm town and yes that's why I looked at his reads.

Ok, but I recall Centipede not explaining reads like at all (see: Maria) so I don't get what was so compelling about the way they 'explained' them when I don't even think any explanations exist?

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE:

[Spiffeh]

How's spiff.

I'm good how are you????

[Spiffeh]

Nero Cain

[Spiffeh]

Gorkington he didn't ask you he asked me please mind your own business

[Spiffeh]

Idk if you're serious about soft claiming control of the Gunner but Gork is a tremendously bad shot at this point and I'd appreciate if you didn't do that

[Spiffeh]

Elli I explained why I’m leaning town on GreyICE a few pages ago

[Spiffeh]

Maybe Tchill

Maybe Ausuka

Maybe others I’m not paying much attention to

Not sure

[Spiffeh]

Yeah they are one of the many I need to look over

[Spiffeh]

Why?

[Spiffeh]

I don't town read Maria but I don't scum read her either

Although I don't really know who is scum

I just think this wagon is stupid and am against it on principle because people are basically naked voting and getting away with not having to explain themselves because Elli knows everything and it's annoying (CheekyTeeky, Tchill, probably others)

[Spiffeh]

Also if the worst does nothing substantial today he gets policy lynched tomorrow no questions asked

[Spiffeh]

This is where I'm up to:

{Creature, Beeboy, Gorkington}
{Thor, Spiffeh, Hopkirk, Brigand Vvolf, Brian Skies, Toranaga}
{Bins, Srceenplay, Quick, TheWorst}
{Ausuka, MariaR, GreyICE, Nero Cain}
{Panopticon, Centipede, TChill}

This is from Cheeky's last post before she starts going after Maria because "Elli has a guilty"

Centipede is on the lowest tier and Maria is a step above. So going from scum reading Centipede to trusting them unconditionally at least warrants some kind of explanation?

[Spiffeh]

Look, Centipede (Elli) called a guilty on MariaR. Imo this guilty is 100% legitimate because I've seen the results first hand in Team Mafia. I see no reason for scum!CS to do this as it would be suicidal if fake and the wagon on MariaR went through. Today we should be lynching in those two.

Ok, I see that this is the explanation

Pretty awful logic though!

Elli being right about a read before doesn't mean he's right about this one

If Maria flips town does this confirm Centipede as scum in your mind?

[Spiffeh]

Oh ok so you're basically saying that Maria and Elli is TvS no matter what

I disagree with the course of action that you're suggesting because I think Centipede is probs town regardless but I at least see where you're coming from

[Spiffeh]

Gork I really didn't pay attention in Kidney, I'll try to look at it later

I do agree that hinting at a PR and doing literally nothing else is p. sketchy

[Spiffeh]

I struggle to see how a game from Team Mafia, which Elli hosted and couldn't participate in, is supposed to convince me that his reads are basically guilties?

I am obviously missing something

[Spiffeh]

Gork I'm actually town reading Elli pretty hard I'm just annoyed that people are just following his lead with no explanation

I'll get over it

[Spiffeh]

Gorkington who should I vote for idrk rn

[Spiffeh]

I'm curious why the tChill wagon fell apart and, personally, I feel like the resistance to it hitting lynch after 70 fucking pages reflects scum resistance.

Can you talk specifically about who you think the scum resistance is coming from?

[Spiffeh]

hmmm maybe GreyICE isn't town

[Spiffeh]

If you're going to listen to Eli do it tomorrow I'm too important to die yet can't believe I have to stop lurking for thisThe gunner can shoot me all you like but 1 day is ,100% needed

Ok two things about this

1. I feel like town!Maria would be really pissed off at being wagoned for literally no stated reason other than "Elli said so" and I'm a little surprised that she's not even mad that she's being forced to basically out herself as a power role when from her PoV no one has anything on her.

2. The stated anti-claim mechanic from the rules makes it really optimal for scum to soft claim in the manner Maria is because no one can really force her to claim after hinting at being a power role. Town power roles should be holding that shit to their chest as long as they can but she pretty much immediately softs at the slightest bit of pressure earlier on.

So Maria is actually scummy
VOTE: MariaR

[Spiffeh]

The reasons for most of my reads are weak because most of my reads are weak.

This is an odd thing to say when you previously held this opinion:

No. tchill is today's wagon, no deviation allowed, absent a literal scum claim.

You later say that you were being sarcastic but considering your opinion at the time from the context of your other posts I really doubt that's the case?

The fact that you jumped to sarcasm rather than "I changed my mind" makes it look like you're over-concerned with discrediting any possible point against you.

That goes for your whole response to Gork's case actually

[Spiffeh]

theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill.
and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary.

We are on the same page

[Spiffeh]

The Panopticon wagon is so obviously scumdriven it hurts me.

Who are the scum driving the wagon?

[Spiffeh]

I think Bins is town again

[Spiffeh]

You saying that is both unhelpful and scummy

Who are the scum you’re referring to?

[Spiffeh]

Why do people just shade wagons without specifically identifying certain players that make it feel that way? This is like the fourth time I’m asking the same question.

[Spiffeh]

scum!Bins will fake opinions and reasons for them in a more overt way than her reads here have been expressed

I was a little wary earlier on but her more recent posts seem a lot more carefree and also genuine in a way that I'd expect town!Bins to behave

[Spiffeh]

It's a fact that if I'm town from your pov I'm the easiest lynch to get pushed through today. If a wagon on another townie gains traction there is no reason to come back to me. If a wagon on scum gets traction there's a ton of reason to come back to me.

Grey didn't vote Maria or pan. Grey voted me.

If one of those players flip scum then there's an association link there.

I'd bet a lot that one of Maria or pan is scum and I wouldn't be surprised if Grey was scum with either.

Ok yes I think these are fair points.

Come vote for Maria though I'm more confident in her being scum than Pan

[Spiffeh]

There's DEFINITELY nothing about daytalk in the rules.

1. Mafia may or may not have daychat.

Holy shit, did we just witness a genuine scumslip in the wild?

There's no way you actually believe this

[Spiffeh]

but for real 2276 is a pretty scummy "gotcha" post. calling it "that slip" is shorthand for "that post where Quick said the scumteam don't have daytalk" and pretending it's synonymous with "that scumslip" is the actual definition of a misrep, and not the fake definition people usually throw the word around as.
~Chara

Agreed

Either both heads of Panopticon got really horrible at mafia all of a sudden or they're scum

[Spiffeh]

That was mean but I think they're scum so it wasn't THAT mean

[Spiffeh]

At this point, can you tell if Spiffeh is scum?

He thinks I'm town at this point but doesn't want to admit it because I've burned him so badly in the past

[Spiffeh]

You guys need to realize that interacting with Quick is useless

[Spiffeh]

Maria who is scum then?

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Panopticon

[Spiffeh]

Everyone should probably reset with the Maria scum!flip and not waste the fact that we have another chance to lynch scum

Panopticon's reaction to Centipede's claim that Maria was scum was really awful

[Spiffeh]

100 page day 1 and we're gonna lynch a "scum slip"

Laughable.

Here Tchill condemns people for voting Quick because of the "scum slip", and even holds his ground when pushed on it by none other than Panopticon, when Quick was really the only viable counterwagon to Maria at the time (Maria had 5 votes, Quick had 4). To me this makes it unlikely that Tchill is Maria's scum buddy.

[Spiffeh]

Panopticon on the other hand immediately votes for Quick based on a "scum slip" that they aren't stupid enough to believe was ACTUALLY a scum slip. The fact that they voted Maria's counter wagon easily at this point and condemned Elli's read on Maria FROM THE VERY START, along with their overall shit play that Gorkington has pointed out repeatedly make them very likely to be scum.

[Spiffeh]

I can't help but feel like this is all a set up.

I assume this has something to do with why you're voting for me? Either way, please explain.

[Spiffeh]

I'd also like to note that all of GreyICE's opinions are pretty bad in the face of the Maria scum flip.

He also pushed quick for the scum slip that obviously wasn't a scum slip and then pivoted to Tchill, Maria's other viable counter wagon, when the Quick wagon didn't take off.

[Spiffeh]

I said we should reset because I feel that Tchill is probably town based on Maria flipping scum and he seems to be most in danger of being lynched when he shouldn't be.

Also I really doubt scum would be moronic enough to shoot Maria and give us another chance to lynch one of them. Even if they're confident it would be a mislynch there's not reason to take that risk.

[Spiffeh]

Bins, how much of a part of the game are you? Like, can you help me understand what's going on and all that?
As far as I'm aware, for what I was around for:
People thought I was tn5421.
Tchill and (nero, I think?) were making a bunch of lame scummy posts, so I voted tchill
Someone claimed a guilty on maria
I voted maria
Maria died
Losers like Spiffeh and Hopkirk scumread me out of the maria flip, somehow?
Now I'm here.

Everything I said still stands.

If you are town I suggest start doing town things. Who do you think is scum based on the Maria flip?

[Spiffeh]

There was no guilty on Maria

People stupidly kept referring to Elli's read on Maria as a guilty, but there was no actual guilty

[Spiffeh]

From what I understand Cheeky was pushing that because she thought Elli was claiming a guilty based on his program or whatever that Chesskid used to dominate the game in Team Mafia, which is why she cited that game. So while her level of confidence was confusing at first I can at least see where she was coming from.

[Spiffeh]

Gorkycakes what do you think of GreyICE now that Maria has flipped scum?

[Spiffeh]

I felt like his push on you was too opportunistic given the timing of everything. It's annoying me that I keep flip flopping on him so I would appreciate some help clearing his slot si vous plait.

What about the timing was opportunistic? Maria had just flipped leaving Tchill as the leading wagon, and since Panopticon was my second lynch choice after Maria and looked even worse with her flip, I urged people to vote there instead.

If you really want to sort me why don't you ask me questions or do something to make that happen? I think I've provided enough content to make you have an opinion one way or the other so idk how a basically naked vote on me is going to accomplish what you're claiming you want done.

[Spiffeh]

You've made the suggestion of 'doing town things' but that strikes me as incredibly bizarre.
Why should I do town things? That seems artificial. If I could just 'do town things', then what's stopping me from that as scum?
Shouldn't your suggestion be more about engagement with the game or catching scum or something?
Like, reck's response seems much more based in actually trying to push me to play the game at hand rather than generate artifice.
It's just strange to me
What do you even define as 'town things'?

I define doing town things as doing things I think are town.

Your slot hasn't done that yet, and I've previously explained why I think you guys are scummy.

[Spiffeh]

What about srceenplay?

Srceenplay isn't really someone I've taken a hard look at, can you explain why you're scum reading them?

[Spiffeh]

Both heads of this hydra are of the mind that if we get lynched, at least we're freed from the burden of having to win this game for you incompetent dirtbags.

Tbh labeling people in this game incompetent dirtbags doesn't make much sense since most of the people currently on your wagon had been on the Maria wagon when she died and ended up flipping scum, while your slot was hopping from Maria counter wagon to Maria counter wagon

[Spiffeh]

beebster pls come back and do things

[Spiffeh]

Ok yeah I'm officially accepting no other lynch other than Panopticon today unless Gorkington or Centipede strongly object (in which case I will probably force them to lynch them anyway)

[Spiffeh]

Yeah never taunt my superior intelligence

[Spiffeh]

Love you Varsoon <3

[Spiffeh]

If you think this is brainless you should have seen me in Team Mafia

[Spiffeh]

unless Gorkington or Centipede strongly object

On this not I'm kind of annoyed that Centipede basically stopped posting altogether and Gorkington hasn't given any indication of his scum reads after the Maria flip and would like them both to rectify that

[Spiffeh]

On this note* FUCK

[Spiffeh]

Literally false, as I've always stuck to Maria as long as I was alive and posting and aware of the guilty, but, furthermore, do you really think scum (especially scum in my position) is more likely to prop obvious counterwagons when there's an in-thread 1v1 guilty on a scum slot? Are you fucking daft?

There was NO guilty. This has been explained several times. Centipede themselves said it wasn't a guilty, just that they were very confident in the read. Your hydra partner OBVIOUSLY acted under the assumption that there wasn't a guilty on Maria so I don't get why that's so hard for you to figure out. It makes no sense that you'll insult everyone voting for you for being bad at mafia when you clearly haven't even read the game, which means your anger look less genuine and more like you're throwing out AtE to save yourself.

So yes, I do believe that your slot has a lot to gain from pushing counter wagons to scum!Maria. The fact that your hydra partner does hop on a counter wagon to flipped scum for shitty reasons makes me think that is actually the case.

[Spiffeh]

Here, Quick makes a joke response to Nero's joke question:

Whats all happening in your scum PT, Quick?

There's no day talk.... LOL.

The "LOL" makes it pretty obvious that it's a joke. After votes from GreyICE and Nero Cain, your slot votes for Quick as well, later implying that it was for this slip:

VOTE: Quick

Anybody that just hopped in that slip is viable.

>admits that it's a scumslip
>still doesn't want to lynch scum
>

This results in this votecount, where Maria and Quick are within one vote of each other.

In the second quote from above where it becomes apparent that the reason for the Quick vote was because of a slip, he also shades Tchill, another very viable Maria counter wagon at the time. This avoidance of the Maria wagon is all while Pan apparently had what's basically a scum read on Maria:

Youre scum.

Maria or ellis hydra are scum

. Gork is back to neutral, quick is still an annoyance, grey is still town, bins is still town, busboy is probably town but needs to post soon.

Pan literally votes for someone who is "an annoyance" over someone that is 50/50 scum based on the "slip" that obviously wasn't a slip from above. After this post, there is no read or talk about Maria from this slot ever again. They took the easiest excuse they could find to not vote for Maria, and vote/shade all her potential counter wagons.

[Spiffeh]

This isn't to mention Gork's case on Pan from earlier in the day that basically boils down to:

tn is just talking at people in this game.
hes not trying to sort people.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes doing.

theres nothing genuine about doubtcasting someone because theyre scumreading something your hydra partner did because you didnt post it.
theres nothing genuine about anything hes pushed on tchill.
and theres especially nothing genuine about him trying to walk back his read there as not being strong when hes indicated anything but the contrary.

But everyone in this game doesn't even read it so I'm sure no one knows about that!

[Spiffeh]

To be fair I feel like half of the roster has had an angry meltdown just in the three pages I have existed for and I'm kind of like waiting for most of them to start playing Mafia lol

The difference is that the Varsoon head of Pan (who I am talking to) should actually know better.

[Spiffeh]

I felt like his push on you was too opportunistic given the timing of everything. It's annoying me that I keep flip flopping on him so I would appreciate some help clearing his slot si vous plait.

What about the timing was opportunistic? Maria had just flipped leaving Tchill as the leading wagon, and since Panopticon was my second lynch choice after Maria and looked even worse with her flip, I urged people to vote there instead.

If you really want to sort me why don't you ask me questions or do something to make that happen? I think I've provided enough content to make you have an opinion one way or the other so idk how a basically naked vote on me is going to accomplish what you're claiming you want done.

CheekyTeeky I would like a response to this.

You don't get to be completely useless by parking and me without explaining why/trying to engage with me about your suspicions that you apparently have.

[Spiffeh]

Varsoon, you know how hydras work?!?!?!?!

You know that if one head is scum then the other one is too because they share the same role PM?!?!?!?

I've explained why I feel the actions your other head took are way more likely to come from scum than town. Thus, I feel he is scum, and since you're a package deal, you are also scum.

I don't need for you to justify play that wasn't yours, I'm explaining to others why your slot is the best lynch for today.

[Spiffeh]

Why is TChill a bad wagon? What are your thoughts on Srceenplay?

I explained why I'm town reading Tchill here:

100 page day 1 and we're gonna lynch a "scum slip"

Laughable.

Here Tchill condemns people for voting Quick because of the "scum slip", and even holds his ground when pushed on it by none other than Panopticon, when Quick was really the only viable counterwagon to Maria at the time (Maria had 5 votes, Quick had 4). To me this makes it unlikely that Tchill is Maria's scum buddy.

I haven't really paid much attention to Srceenplay and I should probably ISO him. Probably won't do that this game Day though.

[Spiffeh]

T-Bone probably avoided the wagon because he's not in the game.

But yes, I feel like scum would wait and see if the Maria counter wagon gained traction before commenting on it, but Tchill immediately called out the bullshittery of the people pushing it as a "slip" when it was one of the only things that might have saved Maria at that point.

[Spiffeh]

Go to "Activity overview" in the bottom right corner under the page numbers.

[Spiffeh]

Gork did you read my case-thing from last page? Tn’s vote progression and completely ignoring Maria makes no sense given his stated “read” on her

[Spiffeh]

Elli's been busy as i expected. i'm also unexpectedly busy.

also we're both townreading Panopticon from the last time we spoke. Gork's last post has the right direction.
~Chara

Ok we’ll deadline is in like two days so it would be nice to hear who you guys are scumreading based on the Maria scum flip

[Spiffeh]

Talk more about that please

[Spiffeh]

im gonna feel dumb as fuck if im letting scumthem off the hook here, but is tn getting frazzled by being pushed by brian and not wanting to lynch maria being more about annoyance with the elli program thing a possible explanation?

I mean he acknowledges that one of Maria or Centipede is scum so it doesn't look like he's completely dismissing it?

[Spiffeh]

Ok I normally would be fine with that but we have like 2 days left til deadline (maybe a little more than that idr) so it would be best of those reasons would come sooner rather than later

GreyICE is probably my second choice but Pan is really just the perfect storm of scumminess and I still don't think I'll be convinced enough by anything else to change my vote

[Spiffeh]

I reject the inclusion of my name on that list

[Spiffeh]

Anyone that’s read the game should know I’m town by now I think

But maybe I’m biased

[Spiffeh]

It’s been like a year since I rolled scum what more can I do???

[Spiffeh]

Nero’s reasons aren’t the reasons I’m scumreading GreyICE

[Spiffeh]

Can we stop doing this thing where people apparently somewhat suspect me without explaining why or trying to engage me about it because I don’t feel like dealing with suddenly getting wagoned later on when it’s likely that most people that feel I’m town will be dead

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: GreyICE

[Spiffeh]

Can we stop doing this thing where people apparently somewhat suspect me without explaining why or trying to engage me about it because I don’t feel like dealing with suddenly getting wagoned later on when it’s likely that most people that feel I’m town will be dead

Gonna quote this every time someone expresses a scum read on me without explanation

[Spiffeh]

Don't let Spiffeh slide with as little as he's been contributing.

This is the most effort I've put into a town game in a LONG time so you should consider yourself lucky that you're getting this much from me

And even then saying I've contributed "little" is just really untrue? I've probably been in the top 5 contributors in terms of actual content and effort this game.

[Spiffeh]

The rest of my week is p. busy so probably won't be able to check in too much before the end of the Day

Lynching GreyICE is fine with me, still scum reading him and Pan and pretty much no one else

Maybe if I wasn't so demotivated and annoyed at people refusing to explain scum reads on me I would be motivated to try harder!

[Spiffeh]

Maybe if I wasn't so demotivated and annoyed at people refusing to explain scum reads on me I would be motivated to try harder!

omg this is such an awkward sentence I'm sorry everyone

[Spiffeh]

I don’t rly think Srceen is scum but I’m fine voting him to secure a lynch for today

[Spiffeh]

Like all my scum and bull reads are on the Srceen wagons except for Ausuka lol

[Spiffeh]

null reads*

[Spiffeh]

[ ]===============
===============[ ]

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Srceenplay

Bins is probably right and her reasoning makes sense

[Spiffeh]

I think it’s weird that he’s straddling the line between “I don’t care about getting lynched” and “oh btw I’m this insane power role” implying he shot Maria

[Spiffeh]

We have an hour left and still need 3 more votes

If this doesn’t go through I can still be on to lynch GI because he could still be scum here but I think this is pretty obviously a fake claim, especially with how Srceen conveniently disappeared after securing that GI had the majority of the votes

[Spiffeh]

Ok idk what to do

It looks like we're not going to get enough votes to push a Srceenplay lynch through, so if he's not lynched in the next 30 minutes I'm switching back to GI

[Spiffeh]

L-2

[Spiffeh]

23 minutes, we need someone to hammer

[Spiffeh]

TCHILL IS CURRENTLY ONLINE, AND VOTING FOR GREYICE

TCHILL PLEASE HAMMER

[Spiffeh]

YAY

[Spiffeh]

TCHILL IS CURRENTLY ONLINE, AND VOTING FOR GREYICE

TCHILL PLEASE HAMMER

What's the followup on this, friends?

Because I might want to lynch Tchill as well. I know, I know, it was kind of a drum I beat day 1, but I have yet to be convinced it's a bad one.

To be fair the hammer occurred a minute after I said this so I don't think it's that big of a deal

[Spiffeh]

Thor can be town for his amazing Srceenplay read. Still don't like that I can't sort Bins and Spiffeh so will look deeper into that.

I think Bins and I should be really easy to sort after what transpired at the end of the Day

But that's just me

[Spiffeh]

Creature is on another level of obvious town for his post count though

[Spiffeh]

No

[Spiffeh]

Centipede Syndrome who is scum i will sheep you

[Spiffeh]

I too am ok with lynching CheekyTeeky

[Spiffeh]

Why?

[Spiffeh]

Don’t tell me what to do

[Spiffeh]

Because I chose to lynch Srceen instead of GI when it could have easily swung the other way

[Spiffeh]

do you feel like you should be at the same level as bins though when she was actively casing and pushing and poking people to vote for him?

Uh I guess not? I don't think it's a contest though

[Spiffeh]

Thor can be town for his amazing Srceenplay read. Still don't like that I can't sort Bins and Spiffeh so will look deeper into that.

I think Bins and I should be really easy to sort after what transpired at the end of the Day

But that's just me

To elaborate, this was mainly directed at Cheeky because she had garbage-ly been parked on me for almost the remainder of Day 1 after Maria flipped because it seemed like a "set up" or something?

She never really tried to engage with me while voting for me or explain why she was ever keeping her vote there uselessly in the first place.

So I find it a little odd that she still can't sort me, which makes me think that she wasn't putting much effort into reading me in the first place despite keeping her vote on me for so long. Especially after I was what I think was one of the swing votes that resulted in lynching scum the previous day.

And sure you could say that GI isn't flipped so it doesn't mean much or that I was doing it just so I could claim it for town credit but I definitely have enough content in Day 1 to make you feel some type of way about me if you were supposedly paying attention to me as your vote-park would indicate.

[Spiffeh]

Also, while I'm not V/LA, the next three weeks I'll be pretty focused on finals/graduation, so you shouldn't expect the same amount of engagement from me as on Day 1, but I'll try my best.

Luckily I been SO helpful and obvtown in the previous Day that my absence shouldn't be a problem

[Spiffeh]

Can someone tell me why beeboy is scum?

[Spiffeh]

I mean Cheeky self voting is basically a scum claim?

No town player would just give up like this given the immense lead they have rn

[Spiffeh]

<<<<There are no third parties in this game >>>>

@nsg is this mod confirmed or is this just a message that was sent to the game?

That is mod confirmed information.

@GreyICE try again

[Spiffeh]

it's shitposting hour bois

you rang?

[Spiffeh]

Uhh grok, where do you want me to vote?

[Spiffeh]

lol

[Spiffeh]

I only switched my vote to Srceenplay because I thought Bins suddenly becoming passionate about something was her way of counterclaiming him

She wasn't

But it worked out so it's cool

[Spiffeh]

It does not exist for stupid reasons