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Post Post #15 (isolation #0) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:47 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 10, Quick wrote:I have some feels on some of the players who have posted so far, but keeping those gut reads to myself for the time being.
This feels like you are trying too hard.

VOTE: Fast
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Post Post #28 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:52 am

Post by mutantdevle »

It appears mathdino got you a vote count for your

Happy Birthday!!
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Post Post #51 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:49 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Suggestion: instead of lynching people we should instead throw them into the pit of misery?
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Post Post #84 (isolation #3) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:48 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Am I the only one that thinks Fumuki scum claiming so excessively is actually WIFOMily scummy?

Here's a list of the people who claimed scum just for reference I guess:

Fumuki
the worst
Quick
Korina

Fumuki and Korina made multiple posts about it whereas the worst and Quick only made 1 comment on it each. I've always felt that scum are more likely to claim scum for WIFOM points so it will be interesting how many scum are in this list.
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Post Post #85 (isolation #4) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:49 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 15, mutantdevle wrote:VOTE: Fast
This vote counted, lol.
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Post Post #86 (isolation #5) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:54 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 67, Quick wrote:
In post 66, Korina wrote:
In post 57, Quick wrote:Korina is Town, just thought I would share that with you all.
Wut
I have my reasons. Actually, it's pretty simple. Your first game on site you played a "reasonable" game. Here, you are all over the map and don't have a care in the world. I don't think you can change your Scum meta that quickly, hence, you are Town.
I disagree with this reasoning. Personally, I'd argue that your first few months of playing mafia is when your meta changes the most (other than times when you actively set out to change it).
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Post Post #92 (isolation #6) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:23 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 89, the worst wrote:Nice to see you devle, did you enjoy marathon weekend?
Your game was the only one I played :3
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Post Post #99 (isolation #7) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:22 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 94, Oxy wrote:@mutantdevle Where did Quick claim scum?
Spoiler: here
In post 53, Quick wrote:
In post 44, Fumuki wrote:
In post 37, Quick wrote:
In post 27, Fumuki wrote:Hi, Mafia Rolecop here partners...second game as scum counting with my other completed/finished game in this same account...
...who should we annihilate/kill/smash tonight...?
How fun!

VOTE: Fumuki
wtf

why are you voting me Quick...?

That's not how we planned in the chat...
You were not supposed to post that here.

He's joining in the "we aren't supposed to be revealing this" roleplay as scum. This stuff isn't anything worth lynching these 4 over alone imo but it's kinda scummy and will possibly make me view these 4 people's future posts in a harsher light (obviously some more so than other's due to how much of it each person posted).
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Post Post #118 (isolation #8) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:23 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 102, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 98, Oxy wrote:e.g., The newb!town in your game attempts slayer's gambit. Yes, he is playing in an anti-town fashion. That doesn't change his alignment from newb!town to newb!scum.
I don't think RVS jokes are antitown. Just incredibly unhelpful.
I think RVS jokes are neither anti-town nor unhelpful, they are just some fun at the start of the game. However, scum claim jokes ARE scummy and unhelpful.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #9) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:24 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 109, Korina wrote:RVS ended at Post 88.
I disagree. There was definitely some serious posts before then so don't be too quick to discard them.
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Post Post #120 (isolation #10) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:26 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 114, the worst wrote:Can we all take a moment to talk about how great Sando is?! First townrea
Care to elaborate on this?
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Post Post #123 (isolation #11) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:29 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 117, Fumuki wrote:I need to ask again why no one is voting ceejayvinoya based on my theory....

Like...it would be the best lynching option...
Is this serious? I'm not sure if I'm blatantly missing your theory here but I ISO'd you and this is the best I could find:
In post 42, Fumuki wrote:Username specifically made to no one vote him.

Game solved guys, proceed to lynching.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

In a side note, Happy Birthday Alonzo.
I'm assuming this is you still joking because trying to suggest that someone is scum because of a username they chose before they got their role card is just ridiculous.
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Post Post #124 (isolation #12) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:30 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Oh okay, I understand that Fumuki is fully troll.
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Post Post #128 (isolation #13) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:33 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 125, Mathdino wrote:MD = mutantdevle
I personally do not like this abbreviation. Especially when I'm in games with
M
ath
d
ino.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #14) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:58 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 126, Oxy wrote:There is probably a limit on how anti-town a member of town can play before it's simply +ev to lynch them and end the distractions.
This is what I'm kinda thinking, but on the other hand, I feel like scum are going to try and push them for an easy lynch. I guess it's up to the tracker-vig to decide whether they want the responsibility of handling policy kills. If there is only 1 kill tonight, then I guess it's our job to handle Fumuki tomorrow. If we are going to policy lynch him, it should be day 2. If we let him live after that, then we have to accept that he'll be a LYLO liability. So for now, I don't care for sorting him (unless he actually starts game solving rather than joking with every post).
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Post Post #134 (isolation #15) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:58 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 131, the worst wrote:In other news....devle why did you roll scum?! I like you! So unfair.
What makes you think I'm scum? :(
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Post Post #135 (isolation #16) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:00 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Since your here the worst, then could you maybe answer the question I asked you?
In post 120, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 114, the worst wrote:Can we all take a moment to talk about how great Sando is?! First townrea
Care to elaborate on this?
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Post Post #149 (isolation #17) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:48 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 136, Fumuki wrote:So imagine that you're scum, and there's people talking about policy lynch because everyone loves to talk about policy lynching scum claims just as I like shitposting.

If you play scum trying to be neutral/get in the crowd, you probably would not be bold to vote them, however, would try to imply that maybe it's not such a bad thing to lynch them. Then afterwards Iconeum gives me the third vote he suddenly starts casting a little shade around those that joked with scumclaims and even puts a list with people that "scumclaimed", saying that although don't want to policy lynch me now, a policy lynch tomorrow seems like a good option...

Not only that, all his other posts are talking about how that's scummy and even tries to reply a obvious shitpost with a serious analyze...

Caught scum. Proceed to lynching/annihilation.
Nice miss repping here.

My talk of policy lynching you has
nothing
to do with your RVS scum claim. The talk around policy lynching you was about how almost every post you write is a shitpost. You can't honestly expect to write a load of crap as your posts and expect people not to consider lynching you for it?

If we are going to policy lynch you, and I never said we definitely should, it's fundamentally a better idea to lynch you day 2 if that's what we want to do. We shouldn't lynch you day 1 because we don't know whether the vig or tracker exists yet. If a vig does exist, it is in their best interest to eliminate the misslynches instead of trying to pick off their own scum reads. Fun fact, as a shit poster, scum are going to try and push your lynch. That makes you mislynchable (assuming you are town) - that's another reason why we probably shouldn't policy lynch you day 1.

Once night 2 has passed, we will know if we have a vig. The vig doesn't necessarily have to kill you night 1, because just the security of having a vig lets us know that we can have you removed from the game if you become too much of a liability. However, if we don't have a vig, then if we are ever going to lynch you during this game, it will have to be day 2. Again, we don't have to lynch you then, but if we ever want you dead during the game, that's when we have to do it. Any later than that and it will be too risky policy lynching instead of scum lynching (unless, of course, we have 1 or 2 scum nailed by then).


I replied to your shit post in an analytical way because I began to think it was serious. You asked people to look at it twice since making the post so it kinda looked like you genuinely wanted us to check it out. It would help if your shitposts were funny and not just random nonsense. As the worst said, if you want to shitpost, pay attention to how Not_Mafia does it. He is genuinely entertaining but still able to take the game seriously. Sometimes he can also be a lylo liability and worthy of a policy lynch but other times he can be a great addition to the town - I've seen him in both situations.
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Post Post #150 (isolation #18) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:49 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 138, Quick wrote:That was not a Scum claim by me. That was a reaction test where I wanted to see how Fumuki would react because I actually felt like they very well could have been posting that in the wrong chat and that it wasn't just a joke. I wanted to see how Fumuki would take my comment because as seen in this game, it could have been taken two different ways, and this is intended. Fumiki took it in the way that I was NOT joking. This to me tells me they are riddled with a guilty conscience because they didn't just brush it off.
Ahh fair enough. That definitely makes more sense for the way that you're playing.
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Post Post #151 (isolation #19) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:52 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 141, Korina wrote:
In post 1, Korina wrote: Also Also:
I AM A GUY, NOT A GIRL, I HAVE A DICK.

However, it's quite funny to see that people assume I'm a girl.
Where is that post from? It seems to be quoted from a PT since I don't have access to view it :eek:
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Post Post #153 (isolation #20) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:57 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 146, Korina wrote:Few reasons:
1) It seems like you were implying that you knew mafia had daychat, which isn’t true, but it still feels like a really awkward post tome.
2) The bolded part makes no sense in the context of mafia having no daychat, which brings up more questions, (namely the meaning behing the push)
3) The entire post just feels off to me.
Wait, so you're voting Quick because he seemed to imply scum have day chat when they don't have day chat? Surely not knowing that scum doesn't have day chat makes him town instead of scum - unless you're suggesting that he was pretending not to know that scum doesn't have day chat (hence the awkward tone)?
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Post Post #322 (isolation #21) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:42 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Gah! So many new pages...

Forgive me if some of my next few posts are outdated.
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Post Post #323 (isolation #22) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:43 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 162, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 161, ceejayvinoya wrote:Hell yeaaaah. Naked vote + omgus = lots of fun
He's the third vote on me. Statistically, the third vote is always scum
So... your OMGUS vote is serious?
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Post Post #324 (isolation #23) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:53 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 168, the worst wrote:
In post 87, Sando wrote:
In post 15, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 10, Quick wrote:I have some feels on some of the players who have posted so far, but keeping those gut reads to myself for the time being.
This feels like you are trying too hard.

VOTE: Fast
I'm putting scum in these two for now, don't like either side of this equation. This reads as weak an approval seeking from Quick and a bit of an opportunistic pickup from mutant, followed by a vote elsewhere.

I normally like townhunting, but Quick seems to be doing it on fairly dubious grounds and hasn't backed it up reasonably when questioned. Weak townhunting is an easy place for scum to hide and I dun like it.

Yay end of RVS.

VOTE: Quick

@devle
Sando and I hiveminded this vibe. D1 is horse poop but this is a good D1 townread for me.

Who are your biggest townreads?
I mean, y'all both realise that was a semi-serious comment on Quick's serious comment all during RVS right? Hence why I voted 'Fast' instead of 'Quick'.

As for my town reads, I'd say that Quick is one of them. I could see them being scum though but currently I read them as eager town. Oxy definitely feels town. Sando I can also see being town since they have the right kind of attitude. That's my town/town lean reads based on what everyone has posted before this post (for now I'm ignoring what they have said after your post here despite getting a sneak peak when looking at their ISOs). So basically, by the time I've finished catching up, these reads may change.
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Post Post #325 (isolation #24) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:58 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 169, the worst wrote:Last time we played you were obvtown as shit to me WHILE being mislynched. Like you took stances and explained yourself well as I recall it, the haters just rebutted beautifully and town were of inconsistent quality

Here it feels like youre trying to avoid taking stances or explain yourself. IIOA vibe from substanceposts. If this is just my hungover self being a mess please show me where I'm wrong.
Yeah, but I was only on the plate for a mislynch halfway through day 1 to the end of it. This game has literally been 7 pages and I feel like RVS went on for longer than usual this game. I personally think expecting me to be obv town within my first few posts after witnessing my ability to look incredibly obv town is an unfair way to try and read me.

Also, I don't get why you think I'm avoiding anything or refusing to explain myself? If you ever feel like I'm not explaining something then all you gotta do is ask me about it and I will.
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Post Post #326 (isolation #25) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:00 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 178, Quick wrote:This posts strikes me as a kind of post Scum make. It focuses too much on things not really pertaining to the game and is very wordy without really saying much.
I can assure you that long wordy walls that may or may not have as much substance to match their length is DEFINITELY not AI for me.
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Post Post #327 (isolation #26) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:02 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 179, the worst wrote:pedit: YES QUICK EXACTLY
Wait, are you agreeing that wordy posts from me are scummy? I know I was only alive for 1 day in the game we played and I wasn't invested in it properly but I could have sworn I posted a few walls, especially back then.
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Post Post #328 (isolation #27) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:05 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 181, Sando wrote:mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before
Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.
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Post Post #329 (isolation #28) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 183, Quick wrote:
In post 180, Sando wrote:
In post 179, the worst wrote:How strong is your devle townread?
Not strong, and it's basically because I think the 100% opposite of what Quick just wrote. That post from mutant struck me as townie as hell, the reason I'm not stronger townreading is due to previous tryhard in RVS stage as mentioned when I voted Quick.
Your reason for voting me is pretty weak. You're trying to say that it's Scummy of me that I didn't want to explain my TRs on people when I said I had some gut TRs on 2/3 of the first posters (Korina being one of them that developed into a stronger read) That I explicitly said I didn't want to explain.
As someone who tends to get a fair few tone and gut reads (which usually turn out to be more accurate than my normal reads) I can relate to your frustration here. But when you have gut reads from a single post in RVS you surely should be able to understand why people would see that as scummy right? Personally, I don't think it's scummy because I'm capable of it myself but that doesn't make it townie either. I think it would be better for people to treat this kind of thing as NAI.
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Post Post #330 (isolation #29) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:28 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 184, Fumuki wrote:Devil, your post was kinda big so I'll answer paragraph by paragraph instead of quotting it all, what you said will be put inside " ".

1.
Spoiler:
"
Nice miss repping here.

My talk of policy lynching you has
nothing
to do with your RVS scum claim. The talk around policy lynching you was about how almost every post you write is a shitpost. You can't honestly expect to write a load of crap as your posts and expect people not to consider lynching you for it?"


If your reason for policy lynching has nothing to do with my scum claims, I don't even have much shitpost. Good part of it is EXACTLY scum claiming.

About lynching, no, I was exactly expecting people to talk about lynching me, what I was paying attention was someone implying that I should be policy lynched afterwards/killed at night while don't exposing themselves too much. Three people were bold and voted me right off and some are dubious, but still is only you that made such a careful move minding your reputation trying to get me mislynched (even if is at day 2) or killed at night. You say that I have been only shitposting but that's wrong, I have been shitposting of course however I too was pointing things out by the time you wrote about how we should deal with me.

I consider that RVS definitely ended in #59 with Quick saying (Why am I town) abruptly and even though Quick maybe thinks it was not abrupt and could be considered a joke, even ceejayvinoya said "seems like we are getting out of RVS stage", because it really seemed like Quick told me "stop it" indirectly. From that point on I was discussing too about Korina behavior and what we should look into in RVS.


2.
Spoiler:
"If we are going to policy lynch you, and I never said we definitely should, it's fundamentally a better idea to lynch you day 2 if that's what we want to do. We shouldn't lynch you day 1 because we don't know whether the vig or tracker exists yet. If a vig does exist, it is in their best interest to eliminate the misslynches instead of trying to pick off their own scum reads. Fun fact, as a shit poster, scum are going to try and push your lynch. That makes you mislynchable (assuming you are town) - that's another reason why we probably shouldn't policy lynch you day 1.

Once night 2 has passed, we will know if we have a vig. The vig doesn't necessarily have to kill you night 1, because just the security of having a vig lets us know that we can have you removed from the game if you become too much of a liability. However, if we don't have a vig, then if we are ever going to lynch you during this game, it will have to be day 2. Again, we don't have to lynch you then, but if we ever want you dead during the game, that's when we have to do it. Any later than that and it will be too risky policy lynching instead of scum lynching (unless, of course, we have 1 or 2 scum nailed by then)."


No, we won't know if we have a vig or not if they don't use it in another person that will probably flip town. So here you are telling the vig "you need to kill him tonight or we shall lynch him day 2", or that the vig need to kill another one and afterwards kill me too. It can seem like town behavior but if you're scum that benefits you even more.


3.
Spoiler:
"I replied to your shit post in an analytical way because I began to think it was serious. You asked people to look at it twice since making the post so it kinda looked like you genuinely wanted us to check it out.".

I had been saying nosense however by that time I had as well tried to point out useful things, I don't think anyone took it serious besides you and am I wrong for suspecting how weird that is since there was a clear difference when I was serious and when I wasn't?


4.
Spoiler:
"You asked people to look at it twice since making the post so it kinda looked like you genuinely wanted us to check it out. It would help if your shitposts were funny and not just random nonsense. As the worst said, if you want to shitpost, pay attention to how Not_Mafia does it. He is genuinely entertaining but still able to take the game seriously. Sometimes he can also be a lylo liability and worthy of a policy lynch but other times he can be a great addition to the town - I've seen him in both situations"

Uh...well...no defense about this...

But the truth is that...I actually don't like that much shitposting...

I was thinking about making me a easy target and catch someone making sure to cast me off while not compromising reputation. You say scum will try to mislynch me but the truth is that they'll tiptoe it a little instead of jumping on it. They'll surely talk about policy lynching but acting like it's a big benefit to town like you did and making posts slightly casting shade on me and the others "trolls".

I'm suspicious of you because you did exactly what scum probably would do, even if there's the possibility of you doing it as town as well, it's the most scummy thing I have see until now.


Well...now that I have explained my behavior (believe you or not...) I'll ask for a break of posting so much nonsense...

It was fun at first but after a while it lost the magic...
1. You do have a lot of shit posting actually. Your first non shitpost was and your only mostly non shitpost after that was when you first voted for me. Since then, you've definately been more serious about the game, but at that point in time, you were almost entirely shitposting.

And I wasn't trying to get you mislynched. Please stop trying to present this as though I just said "hey, we should be policy lynching this guy!". I haven't made up my mind yet on if you should be policy lynched, because as far as I'm concerned, that's a decision to be made tomorrow (assuming you are still primarily shitposting by then). But what I was saying is that if there is going to be any policy lynches at all then since there is potentially a vig in the game then the best time to make such a lynch would be day 2.

2. I find it incredibly unlikely that someone would choose vig if they don't intend to use their kill every night. If they don't trust themselves to make a kill each night then they should be choosing tracker. And again, please stop trying to present me as though I definitely want you dead. If you don't get vig killed tonight, I never said you
should
be lynched day 2, I just said that if we are going to kill you based on policy then that's when it should be.

3. Your difference between joke and seriousness is not as clear as you'd think. When you start insisting that we read your previous post multiple times it makes me start to think "maybe this guy is actually an idiot instead of a joke poster?". I've never met you before so don't expect me to get you straight away.

4. So you're saying that your entire shitposting was a reaction test? I mean, you realise that shitposters are generally pushed by both alignments right? Everything I've said surrounding you getting policy lynched has been about minimising the impact that scum has on having you easily lynched. If I was scum, I would have been a part of that initial wagon on you. But I guess that's just theoretical WIFOM. If you are indeed not a total shitposter then OFC you shouldn't be considered for the vig kill or policy lynch tomorrow, but my points still stand as a general attitude towards anyone we would want to policy kill.
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Post Post #331 (isolation #30) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:31 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 188, Sando wrote:
In post 182, the worst wrote:Also omg new puppy<3 what breed? Is it adorable?
I would say yes (Border Collie):

Spoiler:
Image
If you keep posting pictures of your puppy all game then I'm going to policy not lynch you. That puppy is just way too cute.
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Post Post #332 (isolation #31) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:37 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 192, the worst wrote:Re mutant bleeding heart viewtopic.php?p=9886200&user_select%5B%5D=30609#p9886200

I dont consider myself good at meta reading but ...... the vibes man. This is a good place to start fmpov
the worst, how can you point to this kind of content from me and say that's what scum me is and then try and say my is scummy?

Also, if it's the excessive walls that you are town reading, just note that I've since melted those kinds of posts into multiple posts like I'm doing right now. Basically, previous all the posts I've just written would be in the same post. I've changed my playstyle a little since that game so that people stop complaining at me for writing giant walls of text (though I'm still able to do that when I have a lot to say surrounding 1 subject).
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Post Post #333 (isolation #32) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:38 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 194, the worst wrote:Mutant..... Isn't having reads.
Just because I'm not explicitly stating them doesn't mean I don't have them. If you read into the stuff I've been saying you can see that I've been implying certain reads on people.
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Post Post #334 (isolation #33) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 195, Sando wrote:@Mutant - You spent all of the linked game, Open 711 scumreading or trying to policy lynch Not_Mafia, and he was in fact scum in that game. Why are you completely ignoring him here AND calling for a separate policy lynch?
I'm not ignoring him, I am just yet to engage him. I fully support policy lynching any troll posters that we have this game in the same way I described Fumuki (not so sure that applies to Fumuki anymore but it definitely applies to N_M and Alonso). For Open 711, a little context is required. I had just finished a game with Not_Mafia where we were in LYLO with a SK and he voted me at the very start of the day before I even had a chance to see the day had started causing the SK to hammer the very next post. It was literally as short as a day could get. So, I was very much up for policy lynching someone who is so dangerous at LYLO. Since then, I've played more games with N_M and found him genuinely enjoyable to play with/watch play, I've also seen other troll posters who can make a game more fun even if more frustrating when trying to read them. I still agree with policy lynching any and all troll players, but since we may have a vig, I consider that to be their job. Vigs shouldn't be shooting their own scum reads unless the majority of town also consider them scummy (aka, someone we're probably going to lynch anyway). If no one fits that category, they should be shooting whoever is the least help to the town - most of the time that's troll posters. People were talking about policy lynching and I decided to chip in on when would be the best time to do so. Besides, it was probably never healthy of me to be so trigger happy on policy lynching anyway.
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Post Post #335 (isolation #34) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:55 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 210, Fumuki wrote:I'm not certain but trolls are quite more common now and devil
only said anything to me only after the third vote from Iconeum and a public consensus of discussing a policy lynch.
And I don't think he's pissed...he just is trying to defend himself because he recognizes that it was a serious and valid accusation.
Bolded: exactly. I only started talking about it because other people were and my comments were basically "no, don't policy lynch day 1 when there is a chance there is a vig in the game, a role whose purpose is literally to deal with these players".

And I don't recognise your case as serious or valid, most of what you're saying about me is you interpreting what I'm saying wrong because it's about specifically you. I just generally respond to any and all discussions involving me. I have never left any question directed towards me unanswered regardless of my alignment (that I'm aware of anyway, if I have, it wasn't intentional).
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Post Post #337 (isolation #35) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:06 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In regards to Quick's .

I agree that I was not overreacting and you're right in saying that I wasn't pissed. I didn't mention that when I was described as such because I figured it was just the way other's were reading the post. I intended it to be calm detail as you've correctly identified.

I do disagree with the notion that we should be playing as though we don't have a vig though. I'm not going to policy lynch day 1 simply because we have the possibility of having a vig whose role should primarily be in my opinion to eliminate troll posters and misslynches.

I guess in general we just disagree on how to handle vigs and policy lynches.


Tbh Quick I needed this post from you because I was starting to doubt my town read on you a lil' bit. Whilst I don't necessarily agree with too much of what you said in this post, I did find it really townie.



Pedit: I'm still doing my catchup :3
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Post Post #338 (isolation #36) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:08 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 214, Quick wrote:@Mutantdevle,

Were you pissed when you made that post or not?
Just to answer this directly: no. I didn't intend to come across as so aggressive. I don't really have any frustration with Fumuki, my whole posts about that was mainly to convey when and why we should be policy lynching IF we're going to do it at all.
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Post Post #339 (isolation #37) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:10 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 219, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 218, the worst wrote:He's an unashamed troll and he's beautiful.

He is literally unreadable, literally naked lolhammers at will as either alignment, etc., etc. I'm also jealous because I'm not as cool as him so yeah

Ceejay you need to contribute too. :]

pedit: POT KETTLE BUDDY
Well I guess we need to kick him out of the game early then. Regardless of his alignment, since it will probably help us?
In response to this, see everything I said about Fukumi except replace "Fukumi" with "Not_Mafia". Either we let the vig deal with him or we policy lynch him tomorrow if we want to use our lynches for policy at all. I think it would be unwise to policy lynch day 1 when there is potentially a vig in the game.
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Post Post #340 (isolation #38) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:15 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Nothing in particular is too comment worthy but I like ceejayvinoya's interactions on page 10. He definitely seems to be game solving and I mostly agree with what he's said about N_M.
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Post Post #341 (isolation #39) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:19 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 272, Oxy wrote:What do you think about the duckling not really game solving?
I know this question wasn't directed at me but, personally, I think he is.
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Post Post #342 (isolation #40) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:24 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 267, Oxy wrote:Alonzo - no change
Can you explain why you town lean Alonzo despite him posting essentially entirely shitposts? I can hazard a guess at your reasoning but I want to see if that's what you see.
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Post Post #343 (isolation #41) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:29 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 291, Quick wrote:I would put this a lot higher, but you do you.
Hmm, could you explain why you'd town read him (Korina)? I currently have him as a slight scum lean but I don't see him any higher than a null tbh.

I'll ISO him again when I post my reads list but from my own recollection I don't see him as town (though maybe I'm thinking too much about the RVS?).
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Post Post #344 (isolation #42) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:37 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 313, Quick wrote:I think, in light of seeing Fumuki's trolly nature,
Mutantdevle looks bad here because the reaction looks kinda fake. Why does it look fake? Because mutants response is OTT and over dramatized.
I barely saw that post by Fumuki the first time around... it must have gone through my brain and been filtered as "not important" so why mutant is doing this "ohr meh gosh, I can'tz believe this!" is kinda silly. So either mutant is the type that misinterprets things frequently or they are just Scum. Should be apparent soon enough.
Bolded: umm... what happened to you saying you didn't think I was pissed off and that I was calm earlier? How do you go from thinking that to suddenly agreeing that what I said about Fumuki? Not sure if I missed anything but I don't see that progression anywhere.

And obviously, I'd be paying more attention to something he said about me than you would. Also, when did I say anything remotely like "ohr meh gosh, I can'tz believe this!". All I did was correct him, throw a bit of shade, and then things escalated from there.
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Post Post #345 (isolation #43) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:39 am

Post by mutantdevle »

^^ Honestly, your sudden change in opinion on whether or not my post was an overreaction has made me doubt my town read again. I hope you're not going to make my opinion on you see-saw all game.
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Post Post #347 (isolation #44) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:40 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 315, Iconeum wrote:For some reason I always end up scumreading these early votes on NM. It's such an easy place to start because in every game NM is considered a 'good' D1 lynch
Whilst I don't scum read it myself I do agree that these votes are bad; ESPECIALLY in a game where we might have a vig.
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Post Post #350 (isolation #45) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:55 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 336, the worst wrote:How are your TRs post catchup btw?
A little floppy in some areas and slightly confuzzled in others. I do have a few reads I'm confident by my own standards on though.


Town:

Oxy


Town Lean:

Sando
ceejayvinoya
the worst


Null:

Alonzo
Fumuki
Not_Mafia
Iconeum
Spartan117


Scum Lean:

Korina
Pintu
Quick


Scum:




If anyone would like me to elaborate on any of my reads then feel free to ask. Also FYI, Quick would have been in the town category if it wasn't for that huge change in opinion and if he wasn't making me doubt myself so much in some of the posts before that. I would also just likely to say some things about Pintu since I haven't really mentioned him that much yet. Usually, when I play with Pintu he goes unnoticed for most of the game and is only noticed because he's so unnoticeable. But this game, I feel like I'm noticing him a lot more and he feels more active but not in a good way. Maybe it's because I'm used to him now and hence why I notice him more but something is different about Pintu and I don't like it.

Does anyone else find him noticeable? If it's not just me with this attitude then I'll know I'm on to something and push further.
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Post Post #351 (isolation #46) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 12:57 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Okay, people are probably sick of my avatar after reading all that so I'm going to let other people post for a while :lol:
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Post Post #358 (isolation #47) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:06 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 352, the worst wrote:
In post 350, mutantdevle wrote:Town:
Oxy
I'd like some more detail on this, if you wouldn't mind.
otherwise your reads make sense
Well, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't be town reading him tbh. He is actively game solving, laying out his thought process and generally doing everything a townie needs to do. I find him very agreeable and I can follow his logic in how he's reaching different conclusions. The only complaint I could possibly have about him is that he's a little distant in that he's not getting too involved but still present.

May I ask what makes you think he's scummy? Because I really don't see it. (I'm assuming you think he's scummy since you said there's 1 scum between him and Pintu).
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Post Post #365 (isolation #48) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:41 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 362, Sando wrote:Yeah...but the ling of ducks linked me to a very recent game where your third post was calling for a PL on N_M...where he ended up being scum. "I've learnt he's fun to play with" given it was Open 711 I believe, ie not very long ago, doesn't really strike me as a rational position.

To my mind, if I've legit run a PL against someone day 1, and been mislynched myself (I believe this is true?) day one, and then it turned out that yes that guy was scum and won the game...I'm not turning up to the next game with that person all fine and dandy and "I've learnt they're a really fun player".

Is there a game in between that has caused this change of heart? Cause I'm just putting it out there, I don't buy that someone mislynched as town D1 over their PL target, who turned out to be scum AND won the game, is going to rationally come to that change of heart.
Don't judge how long ago this was by how long ago the game ended. I died day 1 which is a fairly long time.

Also, saying that just because he was scum I should continue the toxic strategy of just policy lynching people who are trolls is bad because my wanting to lynch him had nothing to do with his alignment.


Since that game, I've hosted this game with him in (taking a step back and just watching someone play can be quite insightful), there was also several troll players in this ongoing game, N_M was also part of a mega hydra that's basically a troll anyway in this ongoing game, then there's also the beauty of his role in this game.

So in general, I've warmed up to trolls. They can be fun. That does not mean I'm against policy lynching them though, I'm all for that. But as I say, that's for the vig/tracker to decide whether or not they want to deal with the trolls. Day 2 is when I'll decide whether or not I'm going to care about them.
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Post Post #366 (isolation #49) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 363, Oxy wrote:It's a light town read based on him getting drunk and memeing and having fun in his game on his birthday. There are no statistics about the correlation between getting drunk, getting older, and having fun in one's mafia game and ones alignment, but I have a hunch it comes from town more often than scum. This is probably my softest read, but I see no reason for it to change over a period of time in which alonzo hasn't posted.
I'm inclined to agree. I think scum would be more aware of what their posting and hence avoid posting when drunk. But idk if Alonso is that kind of person hence whey they're still null for me. As far as I'm concerned, at the moment, they are one of the trolls.
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Post Post #377 (isolation #50) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:29 am

Post by mutantdevle »

UNVOTE:

I'm tempted to join the Pintu wagon, is there a legit scum case on him?
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Post Post #379 (isolation #51) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:31 am

Post by mutantdevle »

2 RVS votes and a shitty-reads justification vote. I'm going to hold off on that wagon for now actually.
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Post Post #384 (isolation #52) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:32 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I like your explanation in so I guess you can be a town lean again. I'm not so certain you'll rise higher on my reads list again though (unless something drastic happens) since my read on you has been a see-saw, but that's probably more a fault on me than you.
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Post Post #454 (isolation #53) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:06 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Cool so it's 4 AM where I am and I'm only awake because of energy drinks so I'm kinda hyper and trying to process what the fuck is going on between writing endless paragraphs for my college work...

I feel like I'm not understanding a lot of what is being said because it's confusing me and I'm having to reread posts like 7 times. So basically, I'm online and reading but I if I start posting serious shit it's just all going to be shit logic and people are just gonna' be like "no you fool, I meant it this way!" so I'm online and reading but not posting for now.

I'll re-read everything after I'm in a fit state to concentrate on this which will probably be later today or tomorrow or something or maybe not tomorrow because I'm busy then and it feels weird saying tomorrow, since, y'know, it's 4 AM and still feels like Thursday.
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Post Post #457 (isolation #54) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 455, the worst wrote:LOL devle get some sleep!
But I have 6000 words to write :(
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Post Post #462 (isolation #55) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 458, the worst wrote:
In post 457, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 455, the worst wrote:LOL devle get some sleep!
But I have 6000 words to write :(
On mafia or like an essay?
Just course work in general. I have to evaluate all my ideas and test pieces and I've done A LOT of ideas and test pieces so that's A LOT of writing to go with it. I'm expecting at least 6000 words from myself though I'll probably end up writing more.

I have maoams though so all's good.
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Post Post #546 (isolation #56) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:09 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Please keep in mind for my next few posts (and my posts for the entirety of Friday) that I woke up at 10 AM on Thursday and haven't slept since. I'm currently at the point where my brain is only functioning because the daylight is tricking it into working. I still post when I'm tired in mafia but I do have a tendency to interpret things wrong and make several logical fallacies. So please just calmly explain to me that I'm wrong if that happens instead of going full-blown "YOU MIS REPPING SCUMMY BASTARD!!" on my ass like has happened in previous games.



So I'm just catching up on everything that happened last night but I'd rather summarise my thoughts on it in 1 post rather than fill up half a page:


"The game is long, and I'll get to different slots as I get to them." -Oxy
Ehh, in my opinion there's no reason why you can't be simultaneously trying to sort everyone at once but you do you I guess.

Sando I disagree that scum wouldn't have strong town reads at the start of the game, especially if they are familiar with the player list (I'm uncertain if anyone here is mostly familiar with this player list though).

On one hand, I do think Sando shouldn't be too critical of Oxy for something he isn't criticising the worst for but on the other I can see why Sando would give the worst a free pass on it given his confidence in town reading him. However, I do think it's good to criticise one's own town reads when they need criticising because that's how you keep your reads solid IMO.

I agree with a fair bit of Oxy's but I'm thinking that just maybe shows Sando's slightly outdated scum tells?

Honestly, I can see Oxy's logic behind his Fumuki read, not so sure that's something to place too much confidence in though.

the worst I :facepalm: at you describing something as concern vs topic, Oxy then asking you what you meant by that, and then you replying by asking him what his interpretation of it was... That just makes no sense to me. Can you not just answer what concern vs topic means? Like genuinely though, could you elaborate what it means because I genuinely have no idea and the wiki yielded no results.

the worst's I can somewhat agree with but only about specific reads of his. Like, some reads he does appear to have confidence in whereas others he still considers the possibility that he is completely wrong. Reminds me of myself tbh (and I've been criticised for it before so I can understand you criticising it in Oxy).

About the worst's helpfulness not being AI, didn't the worst straight up admit that he is helpful as either alignment earlier in the game? I don't get why there's an argument over this.

-Damn those 3 AM posts of mine are embarrassing-

Sando, I do think scum are able to reasonably backtrack on their strong town reads. Usually, this can be done over a period of time, however, sometimes it can look natural to suddenly 180 your read on someone based on single posts since this is a natural thing that some townies do. As scum, you just gotta find a post of theirs that looks kinda scummy and blow that up so that everyone else either finds it scummy too or, at the very least, understands why you'd find it scummy. Of course, naturally everyone takes a bit of heat for sudden read changes, but this can easily be brushed off if you know what you're doing.


Meh, so I think the Sando/the worst/Oxy squabbling is entirely town arguing amongst themselves. At most, I can see there being 1 scum in those 3, but no more than that. I liked some of the interjections within this by Quick and ceejay bit I still feel like they were taking the sideline a bit. The argument was mostly the worst and Sando vs Oxy but I could tell that Quick was more on Oxy's side and somewhat defended him but I can't help but feel like his attitude was to not get too associated with it all. It also concerns me that Quick would be kinda quiet during this considering his earlier eager posting.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #57) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:11 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Oh cool so Quick got more active and critical of the argument the next page (20)
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Post Post #551 (isolation #58) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:16 am

Post by mutantdevle »

(directed at oxy):
In post 498, the worst wrote:Anyway the last few pages also point very very strongly towards you being town for a couple of reasons imo
Care to elaborate these reasons are you considering them self-evident?
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Post Post #552 (isolation #59) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:18 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 500, ceejayvinoya wrote:We need to see more of our lurker friends. Everyone here right now strikes me as townie and us sniping at each other is baaad.
I like this post mainly because I mostly agree with it. I wouldn't say for certain that all 3 scum are amongst the lurkers (due to natural probability) but it's certainly looking as though there is a high concentration there.
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Post Post #553 (isolation #60) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:23 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 509, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 506, the worst wrote:Ah, what are your thoughts on it?
I'm inexperienced too just like sharing ideas
You all did alright. I was expecting a lot of name calling and "noooo, youuu suck because so and so". Sooo some more townlean points I guess?
This post made me think about how there was a distinct lack of hostility between the worst, Sando and Oxy. Usually, these kinds of arguments can get quite heated and, whilst there was some frustration with each other, this argument remained calm. Now, this could just be because they are all calm people in general, but I'm taking it as further evidence that this was T&TvT.
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Post Post #556 (isolation #61) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:34 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 513, Iconeum wrote:
In post 377, mutantdevle wrote:UNVOTE:

I'm tempted to join the Pintu wagon, is there a legit scum case on him?
In post 379, mutantdevle wrote:2 RVS votes and a shitty-reads justification vote. I'm going to hold off on that wagon for now actually.
Then why were you tempted in the first place?
I currently have Pintu as a scum lean and, as I explained earlier, I don't know why. He just feels off this game, like his posts are pinging me but I really can't put my finger on why. When I saw Pintu at 3 votes, I assumed that maybe others were seeing something odd in him too, so I considered joining the wagon. However, I'm not one to just jump on wagons and I wanted to see why people were voting Pintu to see if I agreed with their reasoning. Though since 2 of the votes on him are from RVS, that is both a sign that maybe others aren't so pinged by Pintu as I am and I'm definitely not going to join a wagon that has 2 RVS votes on it. That just makes it too easy for scum. Scum wouldn't need to do much pushing to get such a lynch through and if any scum are in that RVS then they could easily hop off with the excuse that it was an RVS vote for town cred if they're confident the lynch would go through without them.
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Post Post #558 (isolation #62) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:43 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 524, Sando wrote:
In post 218, the worst wrote:He's an unashamed troll and he's beautiful.

He is literally unreadable, literally naked lolhammers at will as either alignment, etc., etc. I'm also jealous because I'm not as cool as him so yeah
At what point does playing with someone who basically never posts become fun?
He does post sometimes. Sometimes it's just a passing comment to troll and sometimes he does give a genuine game solving opinion. Though something I've found odd this game is that usually he'd have called us all cunts by now - that's not AI though, just a sign that perhaps he isn't going to be as active as usual this game hence giving us more reason to policy lynch him.

He also tends to pop up at exactly the right moment when you're talking about him, so tbh I fully expect him to say something within the next few posts now.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #63) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:48 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 526, the worst wrote:Ftr Korina PR hunting is gross I missed that earlier
I didn't even realise that either until this post made me ISO him just now.

His first line about Pin suggesting Quick is a hider is not only kinda PR hunting but also a ridiculous accusation. And his second line is basically saying "lol, are you soft claiming vig"?

I have confidence in this being a scum lean now.
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Post Post #562 (isolation #64) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:52 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 534, Iconeum wrote:Also, that's not a naked vote. It's a pressure vote on mutant to explain my question on the previous page.
I take it you missed my post earlier during the game where I said I have a policy to myself of answering any and all questions directed towards me? Like seriously dude I'm the last person you'd ever need to pressure vote because I don't need any pressure put on me to answer your questions.
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Post Post #564 (isolation #65) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:09 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Ask me again once I have a read on you.
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Post Post #573 (isolation #66) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:41 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 569, pinturicchio wrote:What the hell happened here. Like 10 pages to read at 6 in the morning, not fun. But I did, and Oxy vs Sando vs the worst is great content, don't miss it even if it's hard to read.
In post 556, mutantdevle wrote: I currently have Pintu as a scum lean and, as I explained earlier, I don't know why. He just feels off this game, like his posts are pinging me but I really can't put my finger on why.
Tell me ONE thing that pings you that makes sense and I'll give you a pass, but you played scum with me and saying "I don't know why" and "he feels off this game" is absolutely nothing, just trying to put me in the top of mind of people with no explanation.

Mutant is scum, easy peasy Lemon Squeezy
Boi, I have literally been saying I don't know why and then here you come along and ask why. Cheap shot though not unexpected. It's not necessarily any posts in particular it's just you in general. You don't feel like you.

I just ISO'd you, and you're actually quite fluffy this game. I think that's what it is. You were never like that before. It feels like you care a lot less this game and as though you're not really trying.
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Post Post #576 (isolation #67) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:00 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:Want to know the scum metaread I have on you? You overexplain when you're scum. You don't feel the need to do that when you're town because your reads are almost always gutreads so you can't explain them very well, but when you start overexplaining that, there's a scumtell.
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:You don't feel the need to do that when you're town because your reads are almost always gutreads so you can't explain them very well, but when you start overexplaining that, there's a scumtell.
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:You don't feel the need to do that when you're town
In post 574, pinturicchio wrote:the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together
So umm, how are you claiming to know what I do when I'm town? I think I just dismantled your case on me with your own words.

And for the record, my reads are NOT almost always gut reads. I rarely listen to my gut reads even though they are usually more accurate than my standard reads. Also, fun fact, my read on you right now is a gut read... and I've been struggling to explain it... so technically, you're describing my scum lean on you as a town!me action.

As for you defensive point about the fluff, I'll have to check your meta for that since, like you said, there was no fluff from you in our scum game. Taking that into account, you still feel odd though. And I don't like the way you've reacted to me pointing out I'm feeling pinged by you. I'm not even voting for you yet you have got so defensive over my comments of you and tried to twist my words into a case on me.
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Post Post #577 (isolation #68) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:03 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I could even link you to town games of mine where I over explain things if you'd like? But honestly, I can't help but feel like you've developed that 'tell' on me from watching my 1 crappy and very long case I wrote about Gamma in our scum game.

That 1 moment from me does not define my scum game nor would I have considered it too far of a stretch from my town game.
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Post Post #917 (isolation #69) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

I was in London for all of today and now I have 13 pages to catch on (probably more by the time I wake up) and there’s o way I’m phone posting my way through that at 2 am.

I’ve checked the VC though so I know my attention isn’t immediately needed - I’ll post my catchup tomorrow.
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Post Post #956 (isolation #70) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:17 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 579, pinturicchio wrote:Sorry I don't really know if the name of that game was Stack the Deck, it's the game that the worst linked here where Dino was moderator and NM was scum
Oh yes, because I totally wasn't over explaining in that game...

Spoiler: Trump's wet dream
In post 147, mutantdevle wrote:Sleep + college all day = 130+ posts to catch up on.

In post 15, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:VOTE: not mafia

We can not let him get to endgame
Ik this is RVS but I would legitimately be on board to policy lynch N_M day 1.
In post 30, Not_Mafia wrote:I've never been scum
I thought every game was your scum game?
In post 47, TheYankeeReaper wrote:I don't want to rock the boat this game, so I'm not going to vote.
This post is ironic considering what came after.
In post 55, the worst wrote:
In post 15, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:VOTE: not mafia

We can not let him get to endgame
Mind elaborating on this?
I'm assuming she is referring to how N_M lost town the game by voting me in a 2v1 MYLO in a game we just finished at the VERY START of the day. No discussion, just a vote; followed by Almost50 hammering as the SK. It was both funny and quite frustrating. But in general, N_M is just a liability. He likes to lol hammer, barely contributes anything meaningful and is just generally trolly. He is either scum, going to be mislynched or is going to fuck us up endgame. Personally, N_M is one of those players that I am always going to be willing to wagon unless they either claim a PR or a confirmed town.
In post 106, Srceenplay wrote:I am voting them. That’s the point.
Why is it hard for you to consider a L-1 a hammer Vote?
I'm not a fan of this playstyle but I can accept and deal with it. I would be willing to adjust my vote with consideration that each of those wagons requires 1 less vote to be lynched if you are not already on them. I will not, however, hold others to the same standard. I will not treat any L-1 voter as though they have just hammered and will likely consider you accountable for that (though this may depend on the situation).
In post 117, Espeonage wrote:
In post 116, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 113, Espeonage wrote:
In post 110, Almost50 wrote:
In post 54, the worst wrote:I want to see more content from A50.
No you don't! I'm a bad guy.
I listen to Bob Geldof, watch Brian Gleeson & laugh at the jokes of Brad Garrett. (That's a yuckie combination indeed, Paddy!) :lol:

I'll do a quick catch up, but I don't think anyone said anything remarkably AI so far (up to this post I'm responding to)
This feels like a traitor claim.
Why?
Bolded
I'm in agreement with this. I can definitely see this being A50 failing to subtly hint his role. I'm going to view A50 in a biasedly negative way for the duration of this game and I expect him to rise no higher than a scum lean for me.
In post 121, Almost50 wrote:Also, if I was Mafia (main team) my picks would've been BP+RC+RECRUIT TRAITOR. Why would I want a 3rd member WHO KNOW WHOM THE OTHER TWO ARE out there with no coordination?
This statement means nothing since you are accused of being the traitor and not part of the main team. Furthermore, again telling us what you would have chosen also means nothing. We don't know the setup. For all we know, what you would have chosen could very well be the setup. The only time this would hold any ground would be if we had already caught scum. And since this entire post seems to consist of pure thirst for town cred, I think we just have.
In post 122, Espeonage wrote:Oh boy I haven't been called vi in years.
Lucky, I get called VI almost every game. I'm starting to think it might be true :P
In post 135, legoboyvdlp wrote:VOTE: mutantdevle
His sole contribution being to vote on "screenplay" in RVS, causing my RVS vote on him... and he hasn't appeared since, so this vote is for his lurking.
Yeah, sorry about that. My explanation of that is at the top of the thread. I can assure you, I am no lurker. My meta can be sure to prove that.
In post 139, Almost50 wrote:The post you referred to as being a Traitor claim was actually a BodyGuard strong crumb. Bad Guy, Bob Geldof, Brian Gleeson, Brad Garrett. Brad Garrett isn't even Irish to the best of my knowledge.
I almost believe this until:
In post 142, UnaBombaH wrote:VOTE: Almost50 - that BG-claim was always there as a backup-strat.
He is the traitor and tried to crumb it - trusting my gut here.
I feel like this is probably much more likely.
In post 143, Almost50 wrote:plus I wasn't under any real pressure to crumb and claim like that.
This sentence is scummy IMO. No one was saying you were under pressure to crumb. Also, if there was no reason for you to crumb or claim, why did you? You have literally no reason to crumb BG at all. It's not a role that needs to crumb. Why did you crumb? The only reason someone would make this kind of crumb would be for town cred. Only scum are that thirsty for town cred.



I thought that Almost was just going to sit in my scum lean pile all game due to the potential traitor crumb. However, the scummy BG crumb is enough to make me vote for him since he had NO REASON to crumb BG. Crumbs that involve hiding the letters or words in the post are designed not to be seen until pointed out by the crumber. This is only done in anticipation of having to defend yourself and gain town cred. Not only did Almost NOT need to rectify himself with town cred at the time of this post but BG is also a role that is best not known to anyone and doesn't need to be crumbed nor claimed.

VOTE: Almost50



Sorry about the wall. These would have been individual posts but obviously I was not around to make them. Please don't have a fit over it Elmo <3
In post 155, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 148, Almost50 wrote:VOTE: mutant

This is even more scummy than Una's since mutant did play me twice already (finished games).
1. This vote is OMGUS.
2. You haven't really mentioned a reason why Una's post was scummy other than that they are bad. So the fact that my post, in which I outline logical reasons as to why your claim is scummy, can be scummier makes literally no sense.
3. We have only played 1 game together, in which you were scum. (Unless I'm being completely stupid here).
4. I fail to see how the number of games we have played together would relate to how scummy my post looks anyway.
5. Instead of dodging my questions and ignoring my thoughts on you, how about you answer those questions and justify why you would crumb BG?

Bodyguards do not need to crumb; it is not an investigative role. Claiming bodyguard has no benefits to the town. The type of crumb you did is almost impossible to notice unless pointed out. This means the only purpose of it is to receive town cred at any time of your choosing. This is only done when you anticipate being scum read. You had no reason to think that if that post wasn't intended to be a traitor wink to your scum buddies.
In post 166, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 162, Almost50 wrote:
In post 160, mutantdevle wrote:Had there been no crumb and you role claimed with a wagon on you then I would have believed you. But in its current state, your claim just screams desperate scum.
So, I'm "desperate" because "there's no wagon me"?? Explain how the claim works from a "desperate scum" when you ALSO acknowledge there has not been a wagon on me.
There was no wagon on you when you made the crumb. A wagon had since started to build on you after it was pointed out that something you said in the post could be a traitor soft claim. That is my point. Obviously, the wagon has currently gone no further than that. If you truly are the BG, then the claim was a TERRIBLE idea. You clearly claimed just to shut down the building wagon which is one of the things that I consider as panicky rather than waiting until you were at L-2 or L-1 to claim which is a more rational thing to do. If this had occurred later in the day then perhaps your crumb would be more believable. Your crumb was a long-term plan to confirm yourself if needed but you have jumped the gun and used it in the short-term. It just doesn't add up to me.
In post 163, Almost50 wrote:@mutant: I don't care about your alignment right now (in this post), but you're assuming I play the same way as someone who had only joined the site 3 months ago (actually 2-3 days later than 3 months ago, but whatever). Look at my stats and tell me if Scum!me could ever be caught by Town!you (assuming you are Town ONLY for the sake of the argument) on D1.
I'm assuming the first part of this is a cheap shot at the amount of time I've been on this site? I've actually been playing mafia for 6-7 months now but my months before joining this site was spent on a site that only ever has 72 hours days and isn't taken too seriously which results in half the town lurking and only 3 pages worth of posts per game day. I'm still in adjustment from the culture there to here. I also do not believe registration time means much. You can nail it on your first game (my most sucessful game was actually my first ever one on that other site) and even the strongest of veterans can fail hard at times. Despite your impressive stats, you are not exempt from this. You've lost games in the past and you can certainly lose games and make mistakes again. So yes, there is every chance town me could catch scum you. I wouldn't exactly call this my catch though if you are scum. I didn't see the potential of your post being a traitor soft claim until it was pointed out and I believed your BG claim until someone pointed out the crumb could have been planted as a backup. Had neither of those things happened scum you would have fooled me easily. You also forget that I almost caught you last game. Had anyone but N_M made it to that 2v1 I would have been able to at least get a word in about why I thought you were the SK (even if some of the logic was wrong). We won't ever know if I'd be able to convince the other person of your guilt but the point is that I was thinking along the right lines. Of course, just because I was right then it doesn't mean I am right now. But it certainly refutes the idea that I am not good enough to see through you. As far as I am concerned with our last game, you did deserve the victory as you would have won anyway had there been no mod error and your kill on Fitz went through.
In post 163, Almost50 wrote:My advice is this: IF you're Town, back off NOW (and save yourself the embarrassment). If you're Scum though, I'm not about to tell you how to improve your Scum play.
You have no right to give me any advice on how to play until you have flipped or the game has ended. Until then, your words have no meaning. Sure if your town your words have meaning but for all I know you are scum trying to manipulate me. This is, after all, a game of manipulation. There will be no embarrasment if I am wrong. Everyone is wrong at times in this game. I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. And if I am wrong now, then I appologise. But until you give me reason to believe I am wrong, I am not going to assume I am wrong. I'd appreciate it if, instead of insulting my play, you focused more on refuting my points and showing me how I am wrong rather than telling me I am wrong. Because that way, I am prepared to listen.
In post 163, Almost50 wrote:@Everyone: I want mutant lynched today. If he flips Mafia it is proof enough for me that Mafia actually DID recruit their Traitor already, so the RC can actually catch the "Goon" they are assigned to catch.
You probably don't believe this but I'm not going to flip scum. You, at the very least, have to think about what that would mean. You'd have to lead the town to lynch the other 2 that are on your wagon in search of proof for this theory. If you do get me lynched, I reccomend not doing that and instead going after people you think are legitamately scummy rather than OMGUSing the people that are hesistant to believe your claim. If the people you scum read are also currently on your wagon then that's just a bonus.
In post 163, Almost50 wrote:so the RC can actually catch the "Goon" they are assigned to catch.
RC? As in Role Cop? You mean Goon Cop (GC) right?
In post 171, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 165, skitter30 wrote:Like what does 'until' mean? You wouldn't have had a problem with it if Una didn't say he thought he was a traitor?
Correct. I believed the BG claim until the idea that the crumb was set as a backup for if his traitor soft claim was too obvious was put into my head. From there, I thought about that idea and it made more sense to me.
In post 165, skitter30 wrote:So, are you arguing that only investigative roles can/should crumb? Like are you saying that if he did the exact same thing except claiming Goon Cop instead of BG you would have been fine accepting it?
I wouldn't be okay with it in this context. He wouldn't be crumbing his results, he'd be crumbing his role. Crumbing a role doesn't make sense to me unless you expect to have to role claim. There was nothing at the time that would suggest that he would need to do this. Hence, the crumb makes no sense to me as it was unwarrented.
In post 165, skitter30 wrote:I don't really understand the bolded - you're arguing that he anticipated being scumread so he decided to crumb BG and at the same time crumb traitor? Like why make the traitor crumb at all just then which could easily backfire on him? Does this theory still hold if he was groupscum and not a traitor?
Of course the theory wouldn't hold any ground if he was group scum. But if we knew he was group scum then we need not have this discussion :P What I'm arguing is that Almost is the traitor. As a result, he soft claimed the idea that he was a "bad guy" in the hopes the group scum would pick up on it. However, he knew there was a chance that town members would pick up on it and argue that he was the traitor. So, to counteract that, he also crumbed BG so that he could claim that if he needed to.
In post 165, skitter30 wrote:Why are you still voting him ...?
Because I am under the impression he is the traitor. Just because scum would join the wagon if they knew he was town doesn't mean I can't join the wagon if I think he is scum.
In post 165, skitter30 wrote:I don't get it. Why is he desperate scum? Why was he so desperate at the time that he felt the need to set all of this up?
The way I am phrasing it probably isn't the best way to be honest and I'm probably overusing the word desperate. He wasn't desperate at the time he set this up. But if he is indeed scum, then it means his backup plan to claim BG has failed (at least it has in regards to those of us on his wagon). Panicky or nervous would probably be a better word than desperate tbh. His reactions to both my own and Una's accusations feels like he's not too sure what to do. His vote on me is pure OMGUS and based on nothing more than his belief that I am wrong (which would be his belief as either allignment). In general, he is coming across as caught and trying to find a way out.



In post 168, Almost50 wrote:As for you being wrong, how am I supposed to convince you? You say the crumb was a long-term plan and I say it wasn't. All you need to do is wait until I flip to know you're wrong.

And YES, everybody's can be wrong, but not everybody is so naive at it. You acknowledge I'm good at being Scum (good enough o have deserved the win as the lone SK), but you're accusing me of making a BASIC mistake in my play. Why would I ever signal myself out to my proposed team if I wasn't even suspected before that point? You have it all backwards. If I was a Traitor I would have waited to see if a wagon ever formed on me before I tried to wave my hand on my friends to help me out. Otherwise, I would have just stayed put. The Traitor -after all- has a 1-shot BP, so it's not like my proposed Scum team could accidentally kill me.

But GOOD JOB at making me second guess my SR on you.
When it comes to convincing me, I'm not too sure what you can do. That's kinda your problem :3 It might not be a case of convincing me that your innocent but rather convincing me to vote someone scummier (since there's the possibility you're a PR that doesn't strike me as too hard). I'm not willing to let you live past day 3 though unless something major happens that makes you confirmed town during that time. As for the basic mistake, basic mistakes are the most common mistakes that professionals make. Correct!me would mean that you felt confident in your backup BG claim and expected that to work (and hence explains your shakey actions in your surprise that it didn't for at least 2 of us).




Just to clarify something, is this style of claim and crumbing common on this site? I have only ever seen it done twice (once on this site, once on the other I used to play) and on both occasions the crumb was by caught scum. So I'm not sure if I'm being anecdotally biased here.
In post 744, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 738, skitter30 wrote:Mutant, why aren't you voting?
I don't typically vote unless it is for pressure, I am sure of my read, or time is running out. When time gets low I always vote for my strongest wagoned scum read. I apologise for barely being useful today. I haven't been putting a lot of thought into the game due to irl stuff. I'm usually far more active and my posts are usually chunky. It's very unlike me to not have a solid reads list down by now. It's honestly surprised me that no one has picked up on my way more active meta. I've been intending to reread the entire thread + iso people + analyse posts + make cases and finally post a reads list but I just haven't gotten around to it. I will do that eventually though but I'm beginning to think I'd have to wait until day 2 for that. Hopefully, I will get it done on Tuesday but if I fail that I'd try for Thursday and if not I will try to get in done during N1. I give no promises for any of this though.
In post 789, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:Mutant has
A) jumped on A50 sheeping Una: Defence: not heavily invested into the game
That was not sheeping. I added my own opinions, thoughts and explained my own thinking. If I was sheeping I would simply post a simple post with the general meaning of "I agree" and had been done with it. I made pushes against A50 and backed off when this push had both nothing left to gain and nowhere to go in terms of a wagon. And my own acknowledgement of not presently being very interested in the game was not a defence of my posts against A50. Almost all the posts I have made day 1 were posted with a lack of full interest (including this one). You will see what I mean when I start posting more frequently and with higher scum hunting quality. I stand by what I said about A50, I still think it's plausible he is scum and I would definitely consider him a scum read if not for the claim which is self-resolving.
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:B) defended srceen calling him an easy lynch and naturally scummy, THEN saying he should be lynched even though he is not confident srceen is scum. In hindsight of my town read, SCUMMY as it is good to put pressure and perhaps a lynch onto srceen without being on the wagon
I never said he
should
be lynched. I said:
In post 321, mutantdevle wrote:if he's going to get mislynched eventually then we may as well get it over with
I never said I think he IS scum nor do I advocate for any wagon or any pressure. Saying that I think he should be lynched is a blatant misrepresentation of my opinion. If anything, I describe him as a mislynch. I think we can all agree that the later during the game a mislynch happens the more damaging it is since the stakes are higher and there is more pressure.
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:C) posted intent to hammer Srceen "if only for the claim" --> very scummy IMO. PR hunting (srceen, that is what real PR hunting looks like)
I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time. It also posed the risk that someone would lolhammer without the claim. My purpose of stating intent was to cut the crap and save some time in getting the claim. I'm under the impression that it's standard practice to claim at L-1 is it not?
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:D) a few posts later town reading srceen, even though you were "serious" about the intent. To seriously intend to hammer you are normally convinced someone is scum, why did you flip your opinion, I did not see a reason? You seem a bit wavery on screen going from calling it a sheep wagon to posting intent to hammer then town reading. Scummy IMO
The intent to hammer was 100% purely for the claim. Has he claimed immediately, there would have been no intent. Because I don't explicitly scum read him. This entire game he has been in my "town lean but needs a closer analysis as so many people scum read him" pile. As part of my catchup, I intend to look into him a bit more to see if I agree with the town's opinion that he's scummy scum. But as I am not properly invested in the game yet, I am yet to do that. The intent was 'serious' in the way that if he refused to claim after my intent I WOULD have followed it up with a hammer. I was barely around at the time so there was a good chance I wouldn't be taken seriously. I wanted to make it clear that I mean what I say and I don't make empty threats. You might want to remember that for later.
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:E) supposedly set up a50 for a lynch, not sure how I feel about this right now
What do you mean 'supposedly'? As in you don't actually know? And then, either way, you don't know what you feel about it. This is a list of criticisms against me right? So why is this pointless statement here that you aren't even certain about how valid it is?
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:F) Joking well after RVS is over causing votes, wtf?
So it's
my
fault that
someone else
is basing their vote on a joke I made? Shouldn't you be criticising them instead for such a weak vote? It doesn't hurt to make jokes you know, plenty of people have been doing it and I don't see you attacking them for making jokes after RVS. If you ever role claim as the goon cop then I'd definitely believe it since clearly you are the fun police.
In post 757, legoboyvdlp wrote:I'm maybe 60% scum
In post 737, mutantdevle wrote:Omg, I think this might be a traitor crumb in disguise.
In post 807, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 795, Srceenplay wrote:Why did my role matter if you were not going to hammer anyway?
In post 789, mutantdevle wrote:I believed that him saying he wouldn't claim until there was intent was a waste of time.

In post 796, the worst wrote:So you declared intent to hammer but you didn't mean it because you didn't scumread him but you would've done it if he didn't claim even though you didn't scumread him

Is his defence like.... an epic bluff or a scumclaim?
I would have hammered because I don't town read him enough to consider it worth it to go out of my way to keep him alive. My most common position on people I don't believe are scum is the hammer. I don't get why it's so hard to understand I would only hammer if he refused to claim thereafter anyway. You claim at L-1, that's my opinion. At the very least, you claim a PR you don't want to reveal.

In post 797, Montosh wrote:Sure, but you had declared an intent to hammer with a timeframe, and the wagon was kinda fizzling a bit by that point as people were focusing on Jay/Creature. Given that interest it would have been suspicious to hammer at that point.
I heavily disagree with this statement.

In post 798, JaydragonKing wrote:It seems even more dangerous to get another claim day 1, though.
So... you're saying we should definitely lynch within the 3 people who have already claimed? This seems like you are trying to get us to lynch screen here. We have a claimed BG, roleblocker and VT. If we HAD to lynch out of those 3, literally everyone would go for the VT.

In post 799, skitter30 wrote:So, which was it? Like can you clarify what your read on him was in 321, and also what your read was when you posted intent?
I don't mean 'this entire game' as literally as you are taking it. Obviously, I didn't have this view before he has even posted. On both occasions, and even now, my read is a weird mixture of null and town lean, both at the same time in a kinda way. My impression/memory of his post yields town lean, but everyone else's scum accusations towards him and the natural kinda scummy-ness in his tone makes me null read him until I reread the entire thread.
In post 799, skitter30 wrote:I don't really get why your willingness to hammer was independent of reads but instead based on whether or not he claimed. Like I'm not sure why the bolded didn't apply to the first scenario?
Independent of reads because ALL my reads are currently weak due to not being invested in the game yet. I had said I'd hammer if there was no claim and I would have followed to prove that my words are not empty.
In post 799, skitter30 wrote:So, like, what's the point of stating intent in order to make him claimm? You say you weren't explicitly PR fishing ... but the more VT claims that there are the easier it is for scum to PoE who the PRs might be. No matter what he claimed, you helped scum out by forcing him to do so.
He should have claimed anyway. He was at L-1. He said he'd claim with intent, there is no way someone else wouldn't have placed intent if I had not, by getting the intent out of the way everything happens faster and we waste less time.
In post 926, mutantdevle wrote:Has been a busy and emotional last few days for me which is largely why I have been uninterested in this game. That is over now (well not over but I don't have to put time into anything anymore) so from now on I plan to be more active and productive in this game. I did plan to complete the re-read and stuff that I've been saying I'd do for a while now tomorrow but then I saw that I was at L-1...

I am a Vanilla Townie. You will find that I crumbed that. Not sure where, but I'm sure you could probably find a post where 2 words next to each other start with V and T respectively.

Now here's the thing, I don't want to do extensive catch up on the game and waste my time if y'all are just going to lynch me. As such, I won't be doing that unless the bandwagon on me dies down a bit.

My assumption right now is that I am to be lynched. We have had enough wagons today and it's about time one of them went somewhere. It's a shame really because I was looking forward to playing with NSG again now that I have more experience from our last game. As such, I believe replying to accusations of "you're scum" with "no I'm not" is a waste of time and instead I will use the little time I have to properly state my reads (prior to this post I simply hint them) and say some things to steer town in the right direction for day 2.


Reads list:

Town

Espeonage - I agree with a lot of what he says.
Sky_Paladin - Again, I really like the things he has been saying and the scum hunting comes across as town.


Town Lean

Srceenplay - I think I've said enough about Screen in this game tbh.
northsidegal - Liked the entrance, definitely seems like she is scum hunting from the perspective of someone who doesn't know who scum are.


Null

Not_Mafia - If he isn't vig killed tonight then policy lynch him tomorrow. Scum isn't going to kill someone who is such a MYLO threat.
JaydragonKing - Has said a lot but doesn't stand out.


Scum Lean

the worst - Not entirely convinced he is scum, but if he is then one of his partners is skitter30.
skitter30 - I could honestly believe that worst and skitter are the same person in disguise.
Montosh - Are you doing anything?


Scum

Almost - I'm tempted to say I don't actually believe his BG and had there not been one I'd have been looking to tunnel him. But since it's self-resolving, lynch him day 3 when you find he isn't dying.
legoboyvdlp - My top scum read off the top of my head. I plan to REALLY look into him if I get a chance to do my catchup. I feel like he is giving an illusion of helping without actually adding much substance.
UnaBombaH - Scumm and slightly opportunistic IMO.


Something I just want to say is be cautious of people pushing the traitor hunting agenda. There is no guarantee there is a traitor and only the scum will know the answer to this. Out of all the scum options to pick, traitor is probably the most likely one that scum would risk having another PR over. But still, some people insisting a traitor really exists could be scum trying to make people focus less on hunting by association.


Also, this isn't the first time I've been put to L-1 for allegedly role fishing when I really wasn't intending to. And as it turns out, scum founded that wagon. So, y'know, just sayin'. I've found that history does tend to repeat itself.


If y'all are going to lynch me then I'd appreciate it being done in the next 16 hours. I don't think I have anything to add if the phase turns to twilight and I have time to do my catchup tomorrow but ideally want to know if it is worth it by the time I wake up.
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Post Post #957 (isolation #71) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:27 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 617, the worst wrote:what would you expect town!me to react with given my activity this game?
To be fair, given how active you are, I feel like you would be likely to address everything that goes on the thread. It is kinda odd that you seemed to ignore the pressure on you.
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Post Post #958 (isolation #72) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:32 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 618, Alonzo wrote:
In post 613, the worst wrote:as I said before I'm just assuming Alonzo is going somewhere here because his catchup post is dreadful
Il stick with you. You are a better Lynch than Notmafia today.

And tomorrow.
I don't think you should be to so quick to write off N_M as an early lynch candidate. If there's no vig in the game, I'm definitely going to be all for his lynch tomorrow. You either kill off shit posters early or let them live until endgame - and I don't really want N_M in the endgame.
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Post Post #960 (isolation #73) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:41 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Ugh, the whole interactions with Alonzo on page <26 is making my brain hurt but it still makes me lose a little confidence in the worst. Sando is looking good from it though.

I get the feeling that there's 1 scum in the worst and Alonzo though.
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Post Post #961 (isolation #74) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 651, the worst wrote:Ceejay is adorable but unfortunately could be scum

Sando I owe you a beer :(
I agree.

An update on my previous post is that if either Ceejay or Alonso flip scum I think the worst would be town based on general interactions (Alonso recently and Ceejay throughout the thread). Alonso's and Ceejay's flips won't say much about each other though.
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Post Post #962 (isolation #75) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:55 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 662, Alonzo wrote:
In post 169, the worst wrote:
In post 134, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 131, the worst wrote:In other news....devle why did you roll scum?! I like you! So unfair.
What makes you think I'm scum? :(
Last time we played you were obvtown as shit to me WHILE being mislynched. Like you took stances and explained yourself well as I recall it, the haters just rebutted beautifully and town were of inconsistent quality

Here it feels like youre trying to avoid taking stances or explain yourself. IIOA vibe from substanceposts. If this is just my hungover self being a mess please show me where I'm wrong. :(
Whats going on from your POV here devle cos this just seems grim to me.
Seems like 'throw shit and if it sticks great! ..... If not.. well... reasons'
Assuming this is a question for me:

I never really read this comment as a scummy reason to scum read me. I just though he was another player trying to read me based on a certain thing I did in a certain way in a certain game. I've had a fair few players expect me to replicate my exact playstyle each time when I'm a little more varied than that. I assumed this was just another example of that.
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Post Post #963 (isolation #76) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:07 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 684, Oxy wrote:
In post 683, Quick wrote:
In post 678, Oxy wrote:Actually, you don't have to answer, this post is bleeding town ()
I disagree that you should be giving Townie points for being "logical." Scum can make cases on people too, and in fact, I'd say more often than not Scum default to being rational and Town default to being unsound/chaotic/unknowledgeable/ignorant/doubtful. The reason for this is simple: Town are automatically in a place filled with chaos while Scum are in a place of order.
I translate as the following, and it reads very townie to me:

Okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.

But I maintain that in ideal world, things would be such that I would be right!

And even if you're right, his reaction would be bad in that scenario, too!

And now I'm frustrated that I've come all the way down this rabbit hole and oxy is either bad!scum or bad!town but it's his bad play that got me into this mess

so I'm going to keep voting him regardless

And you could be right about him being terribad!town so I don't want to continue arguing with you about his alignment

But people better step the fuck off with the unsubstantiated insults
In post 685, Sando wrote:^Close enough
I really like Sando's reaction here.
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Post Post #964 (isolation #77) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:10 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 689, Oxy wrote:It's actually a good case for a playstyle, and yeah, it's my playstyle except I hadn't really thought consciously about fighting off TR's I don't like.

I was really just in a shitty mood, and I felt like he was coming at me, so I told him his read was shit instead of trying to be diplomatic.
Again, I like this reaction. I don't think scum would brush off someone defending them like this.
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Post Post #965 (isolation #78) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:11 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 690, Quick wrote:Doesn't mean that you weren't doing it unconsciously.
This makes me feel uncomfortable because it feels like you are trying too hard to defend him.
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Post Post #966 (isolation #79) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:14 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 697, Sando wrote:But beyond that, on reflection the interaction with mutant was off. At the time it made sense, but as mutant pointed out, there's really no need to vote-pressure him. Anyone properly looking at mutant watched the mutant/sando/duckling interaction and would realise that all you had to be was direct and you'd get an answer to your question. Felt like the vote was an attempt to look like he's doing something and that if he didn't vote he'd be seen as wishy washy and uncommitted.

Felt like a player realising they're not keeping up with the game and seeking to show that they're doing something. Didn't feel like a genuine effort from him.
I like this observation. I was just passing him off as someone who didn't really understand me but now I can see there could be scum motivation behind his play there.
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Post Post #967 (isolation #80) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:17 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Though something to note is that the only time I have really pressure voted someone for something like this was indeed to look busy and seem like I was using my vote. I was town on those occasions though. However, I'm not sure if that's just because I'm the kind of player that doesn't tend to throw their vote around too much.
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Post Post #968 (isolation #81) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:24 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I've always disagreed with Sando's Oxy read but I'm finding Sando more agreeable in his argument with Quick in and around the page 29 area.
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Post Post #969 (isolation #82) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:27 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I don't like Momo's entrance. Not because they call me scum in it but because they start with the typical WIFOM of "glad we're not scum, lol!" and then proceed to be very aggressive.

That's probably a playstyle thing more than anything AI indicative though. But they strike me as a player that I'm going to find inherently scummy and struggle to sort :/
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Post Post #971 (isolation #83) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:33 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 736, MOMOMEN wrote:if i just called you scum or unsorted, lost a link of ur town and wolf game or else ill fucking tunnel you into the ground.
Town:
1 2 3 4 5 6

Scum:
1 2

Each from most recent to least recent.
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Post Post #972 (isolation #84) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:35 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 742, MOMOMEN wrote:i'll know each of u so well i'll be whispering sweet nothings into ur ear while feeding u chocolate strawberries.
It appears you already know me :o
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Post Post #973 (isolation #85) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:37 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 748, ceejayvinoya wrote:@quick I've never played with a hydra before. Any advice on dealing with them? Like just treat them like anyone else?
For the most part, you do treat them like anyone else except sometimes you can find yourself reading each head differently.

Why did you specifically ask for Quick's advice on this?
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Post Post #974 (isolation #86) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:42 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 771, Oxy wrote:
So duckling is the lynch today, then.
I agree with what you imply here. It's really scummy and awkward the way the worst is brushing off these accusations.

It kinda reminds me of when someone makes a joke about you being gay and you don't deny it because you don't want to lie to them but you don't want to come out yet either so instead you just laugh.
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Post Post #976 (isolation #87) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 971, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 736, MOMOMEN wrote:if i just called you scum or unsorted, lost a link of ur town and wolf game or else ill fucking tunnel you into the ground.
Town:
1 2 3 4 5 6

Scum:
1 2

Each from most recent to least recent.
Oh, I forgot about my town marathon game. That's probably a good example of what town me can look like under pressure.
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Post Post #977 (isolation #88) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:47 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 784, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 783, Quick wrote:
In post 778, MOMOMEN wrote:btw i now own this thread, so if ur gonna talk to me, pls address me as your majesty or my liege pls. ty
Yerp. You should prolly start splainin at some point because this "dis post good" "dis post bad" shit has got to go.
dis post bad
As much as I'm on the same level as Quick in hating your kind of post style I still appreciate pure gold posts like this.
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Post Post #978 (isolation #89) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:54 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Quick, what was the purpose of you going through and quoting old comments like that?

Sure, it's nice to reread some previous stuff and compare them to the now to help hunt scum, but what bothers me is how trivial some of what you were saying was. It seems like a lot of that could have just been kept in your head or posted in a single summary post at the end of it all.
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Post Post #979 (isolation #90) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:00 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 842, Oxy wrote:
In post 841, Quick wrote:In post 328, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 181, Sando wrote:
mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before

Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.
Actually, I don't think this is dependent on Fumuki being an alt.

Either way it's an unknown name and play style, and that is what mutant would have been reacting to here.
Well actually it's more to do with that I just genuinely forget that alts exist sometimes since I don't personally relate with wanting to have one.

That and I'm pretty sure Fumuki said he was new?
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Post Post #980 (isolation #91) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:00 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 210, Fumuki wrote:Yeah...tensions is building up here...

I know it's maybe not my place to say it...but Quick...that was quite rude to Sando...

Sando,
I'm a newbie
so I'm far away from being reference or anything, however if I can point out something is that I don't think scum would be that confused and standoffish about me...

I'm not certain but trolls are quite more common now and devil only said anything to me only after the third vote from Iconeum and a public consensus of discussing a policy lynch. And I don't think he's pissed...he just is trying to defend himself because he recognizes that it was a serious and valid accusation.

By the way...

Sorting if there's a vigilant or making a vigilant kill...I don't know if that's good...

If the vigilant doesn't kill it will be easier for the psychologist/detective actually catch mafia with investigative results...I think a vigilant kill should wait till there's solid suspects at least (plus, mafia would change strategy, since if the vigilant doesn't show up they will probably prefer to only make one mafia member do the killing to make it able to poses as vigilant even though they are mafia).
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Post Post #981 (isolation #92) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:19 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 869, Not_Mafia wrote:Just popping in to say I'm reading less and less of the game as the pages go by, would anyone like to guess why?
You're studying poetry?


But honestly, yes, these Quick vs MOMOMAN interactions are giving me a headache. I wouldn't be mad if the potential vig decided to take one of them out instead of you or a lurker. I hope one of them are spot on with their reads so that the mafia are inclined to take them out because I really don't want to have to deal with this all game :/
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Post Post #984 (isolation #93) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:35 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 982, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 981, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 869, Not_Mafia wrote:Just popping in to say I'm reading less and less of the game as the pages go by, would anyone like to guess why?
I wouldn't be mad if the potential vig decided to take one of them out instead of you or a lurker. I hope one of them are spot on with their reads so that the mafia are inclined to take them out because I really don't want to have to deal with this all game :/
ms hasn't changed their toxic environment one bit. lovely.
I don't get how you think I'm being toxic? I'd consider myself rather a peaceful person.

My complaint is that yours and Quick's arguments are most definitely toxic and don't really do anything to improve the game state. Obviously, Quick is the main one creating that toxicity. But since Quick wasn't like that before you joined, I figure that either one of you being gone from the game will fix the problem.

Basically, your comment that viging Quick would give +town EV I very much agree with except I think that can be applied to either of you.
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Post Post #987 (isolation #94) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:10 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I think so, but I've been flip-flopping on him all game. I'll be reading his posts and be like "yeah, this is town" but then there are some posts in between that I'm just like "wow, you scummy fuck". I doubt I'm going to see him as anything higher than a town lean and I should probably just accept that I'm not qualified to read him.

If I'm honest, I'm kinda sheeping you in considering him town right now because I feel like his recent posts have actually been quite scummy. I don't necessarily trust you though, but that doesn't mean I can't sheep you. If you are scum, then you're scum telling us Quick is town. And if you're town, then you're town genuinely under the impression Quick is also town (and you, evidently, are better at reading Quick than I). I really don't see a situation in where you are both scum here; your interactions are way too hostile and dragged out for that.
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Post Post #996 (isolation #95) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:01 am

Post by mutantdevle »

^^ If we wagon Icon then at least we don't have to worry about a lol hammer.
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Post Post #998 (isolation #96) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:02 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Fuck.
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Post Post #1000 (isolation #97) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:05 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I'd probably vote Icon if there was explicitly a case on him. Alternatively, if Oxy was on it then I'd be town reading the wagon enough to join it.
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Post Post #1003 (isolation #98) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:25 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1001, Oxy wrote:Are you saying that if I vote Icon, you will vote Icon?
Pretty much yes. There are several reasons that I'd vote someone, one of those is if the players currently voting for them are players that I trust (and vice versa in the sense that if I don't trust or null read too many players on a wagon I'd probably avoid it even if I think the wagoned player is scum). You joining the Icon wagon in it's current state would reach that threshold for me where I town read the wagon enough to join it myself.
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Post Post #1005 (isolation #99) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:32 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Ladder of town reads down to scum reads:

{Oxy, Sando}
{Quick, the worst}
{Alonso}
{MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia, randommidget, Iconeum}
{Ceejay}
{Korina, Pintu}
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Post Post #1006 (isolation #100) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:34 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1004, Oxy wrote:You would be okay putting it at L-1 with NM having just signaled with his vote?
Oh shit... No, I wouldn't. I would, however, be comfortable placing intent to hammer if you and not_mafia were on the wagon.
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Post Post #1012 (isolation #101) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I was aware of the
people
on the wagon, not how many people, but the people themselves...

Like seriously, are you 3 really voting me because I evaluated my reads of the people wagoning someone in my null pile but didn't count the number of people on said wagon?
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #102) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:47 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1011, Randomnamechange wrote:
In post 993, MOMOMEN wrote:maybe post something game advancing instead of lurking and/or taking days to catch up an hours worth of trading :thinking:
maybe is going to take me longer than expected to catch up in a game that doubles in length in the space of a day. i see why people dont like your posting style.
They aren't the only 1 to blame. There's several of us who are active posters and you lucked out in that aspect.

If you're struggling to keep up then just respond to the last few pages everytime you check the thread. Anything of significance should be reoccurring and I'd rather you miss a few things here and there than not keeping up with what is currently happening.
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #103) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:48 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1013, Oxy wrote:That was the event that precipitated my vote, yes. =)
This is what happens when I play with people that don't know me...

Pintu should know better than to vote for me for something like this though.
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Post Post #1017 (isolation #104) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:52 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Oh lol. The pressure of restating his vote certainly worked though.
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Post Post #1042 (isolation #105) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:04 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1021, ceejayvinoya wrote:That's an ugly reads list dude. VOTE: mutant
Why, what's your problem with it?

All game you've been especially critical of people who place you low on their reads lists but now you've found someone who you can be opportunistic about.
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #106) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:14 am

Post by mutantdevle »

On the topic of who is scum on my wagon, I'd say there is definitely 1 in Icon, Pintu and ceejay - I'm currently feeling ceejay. If MOMOMEN is scum then there's 2 scum on my wagon.

And Sando I think what they find scummy about the whole wagon thing was that I didn't realise if both myself and Oxy were on the wagon then that would put N_M in a position to lolhammer - they are calling my mistake of being aware of who was on the wagon but not the numerical value of how many people were on the wagon scummy.

Those kinds of mistakes are very typical of me and I'm assuming they think it was intentional because I really don't see how it could be considered scummy as a mistake.
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Post Post #1048 (isolation #107) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:16 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1045, MOMOMEN wrote:it's scummy because his likely partner is low enough to be considered bussing but not low enough to be actually for the lynch. it's scummy because the two easiest mislynches in the game are his bottom. it's scummy because me and nm are null when at least one of us is clearly town. it's scummy because it looks like devle has tmi reads on oxy and sando. it's scummy because alonso and the worst are also way too high for what they've done.

don't get me started on the bad tone and overarticulation of literally everything by devle.
Okay... so I'm scummy because I disagree with you... okay...


And you're calling me out for bad tone and over articulation... did you even read any of those games you got me to link you?
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #108) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:25 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1045, MOMOMEN wrote:it's scummy because his likely partner is low enough to be considered bussing but not low enough to be actually for the lynch. it's scummy because the two easiest mislynches in the game are his bottom. it's scummy because me and nm are null when at least one of us is clearly town. it's scummy because it looks like devle has tmi reads on oxy and sando. it's scummy because alonso and the worst are also way too high for what they've done.

don't get me started on the bad tone and overarticulation of literally everything by devle.
I'm not entirely sure if you mean Icon or ceejay as my potential buddy but either way just know that I'm fully willing to lynch anyone on the bottom half of the list. I kinda see what you mean about Korina being a mislynch but I don't believe Pintu is. He's my strongest gut read. I've never been able to read N_M adequately and you obviously think way too highly of yourself because I do not consider you town at all, I'm only trusting you on your Quick read because I'm certain it would be the same as either alignment. I'm not too sure what you mean by tmi for Oxy and Sando but they've been my strongest town reads for a while now so I have no idea why you're only criticising that now. And I disagree on your comments on Alonso and the worst. Whilst some of your comments have placed doubt in my mind about the worst I still don't think he is lynch worthy and I do think that Alonso has earnt a null town status.
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Post Post #1187 (isolation #109) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:29 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1050, MOMOMEN wrote:^ look at what i mean. overarticulation, but i also forgot to mention wishy washy reads.
You STILL haven't even checked out the meta on me you've asked for have you?

I always over-articulate.
My reads are (almost) always shit.

Neither of these are AI for me. If anything, good reads are probably more indicative that I know everyone's alignments than bad ones.


MOMOMEN, may I just ask why you asked me to link you my past games as both alignments when you clearly haven't checked them out?
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Post Post #1188 (isolation #110) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:38 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1051, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1005, mutantdevle wrote:Ladder of town reads down to scum reads:

{Oxy, Sando}
{Quick, the worst}
{Alonso}
{MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia, randommidget, Iconeum}
{Ceejay}
{Korina, Pintu}
What did Alonzo do that puts him higher than half the player list? Why is korina still at the bottom despite the fact that there is nothing to read on her for days now (if you have something earlier in the game that points to her being scum, I'd like to see it)? Do you have anything more concrete on Pintu than "my gut says so"? Also would like to see something on why The_Worst is a tr.

Point out where I've been critical of other people's readlists?
1. His interactions and criticisms of the worst
2. For the very reason that there had been nothing to read for days.
3. RVS scum claim, the shit logic/case against Quick and the slight scum hunting.
^^ Just to say, why are you only now questioning/criticising my read on Korina when it's been nothing higher than a scum lean all game. This just screams opportunistic scum from you.
4. No
5. Because he seems to have a town attitude and has been consistently townie posting throughout the game. However, other's points about him have made me doubt him enough to have this read as purely a lean rather than a full town read.
^^ Also again, why only question this now and not the multiple occasions throughout the game where I have stated my town read/lean on the worst. You're just trying to give the impression that you REALLY think I'm scummy to justify your position on my wagon.
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #111) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:44 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1055, Sando wrote:mutant hasn't, he's kept us quite nicely tbh. He responds in a once a day huge-post rather than sticking it out in real time, but that seems to be his style rather than a tactic.
Just saying, that isn't intentional. I reply as and when I can but sleeping and college means I'm not always able to for quite a few hours at a time. One difference between this game and most though is that this game gets so many new posts during that time that I don't bother checking the thread when not at my PC meaning I'm not phone posting like I usually do.
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #112) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1057, MOMOMEN wrote:overarticulation is part of devle's wolf range. yes, i read all the gamess he linked, and this seems to align with his wolf game.
I have no idea how you can read all my games and reach this conclusion... I've always felt that I have so much more to say when I'm town.
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Post Post #1192 (isolation #113) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:50 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1066, Quick wrote:
In post 1063, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1058, Quick wrote:
In post 1057, MOMOMEN wrote:overarticulation is part of devle's wolf range. yes, i read all the gamess he linked, and this seems to align with his wolf game.
Links or it didn't happen.
I didn't post the above, but it literally says the games he linked so I'm not sure what links you're asking for
Obviously I am looking for examples of how his game is similar/different here.
I too would like examples of how you think over articulation is a scum trait of mine; there have been so many town games where I have over articulated way more than what I have this game.

If this is genuinely your opinion then that just tells me you looked at my meta with huge confirmation bias.
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Post Post #1193 (isolation #114) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:58 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1070, Oxy wrote:
In post 1043, Sando wrote:Dis, why is this a bad thing? Hey people who I think are scummy are on the wagon...that makes me dubious. Why is that bad logic?
His whole post is "Look at how I'm analyzing the wagon to decide if it's likely a good wagon or not. Isn't that townie?" but he couldn't have actually analyzed the wagon because then he would know who and how many votes were on there.

And he says this is normal for him

but for whom is faking wagon analysis a town tell?
Dude... I wasn't faking wagon analysis, that's not what I meant at all.

I was analysing whether or not I should join the wagon based on how much I trust the people on it to make the right call. I knew I wasn't in a position to hammer and I knew that it wasn't L-1 so the number of people on the wagon meant nothing to me. I apologise if myself overlooking the maths that you + me on the wagon = N_M lolhammer bothers you.

And the part I was referring to as normal for me was small mistakes like this and misjudgements in logic.
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Post Post #1198 (isolation #115) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:10 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1194, Oxy wrote:
In post 1193, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1070, Oxy wrote:snip
Dude... I wasn't faking wagon analysis, that's not what I meant at all.

I was analysing whether or not I should join the wagon based on how much I trust the people on it to make the right call. I knew I wasn't in a position to hammer and I knew that it wasn't L-1 so the number of people on the wagon meant nothing to me. I apologise if myself overlooking the maths that you + me on the wagon = N_M lolhammer bothers you.

And the part I was referring to as normal for me was small mistakes like this and misjudgements in logic.
Yeah, but just previously you were engaging with NM and discussing him quick hammering

That's why it's difficult for me to believe that town!mutantdevle would fail to make that connection when analyzing the wagon

And why it's easy for me to believe that scum!mutantdevle did a cursory comparison of his readlist and the wagon

But didn't put in enough thought to realize the implications.
If your argument was that I had done this on purpose then I'd understand your point of view. But what you're saying, and correctly, is that I made a mistake. But you're arguing that I'd only make this mistake as scum. What I'm arguing is that this mistake is NAI for me at all. I've made a fair few mistakes like this as both alignments and I imagine I always will.

Like seriously, can y'all stop accusing me of scum for things that are NAI? You all need to accept that you can't read me like any other player. I have a history and a meta of not conforming to site meta and doing things in my own wonky way. If you can't understand that about me, then you're not only going to make things difficult for this game, but also any future games we play together.
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Post Post #1201 (isolation #116) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:29 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1196, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1191, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1057, MOMOMEN wrote:overarticulation is part of devle's wolf range. yes, i read all the gamess he linked, and this seems to align with his wolf game.
I have no idea how you can read all my games and reach this conclusion... I've always felt that I have so much more to say when I'm town.
except, y'know, you actually reach conclusions? here, you over articulate but never reach a proper conclusion. "yeah, i guess he could be scum, but i think he's town, too, idk." it's like entirely your wolf range whereas when your villa when you overarticulate or make attempts to solve, you actually reach logical conclusions and have the effect of at least decent gamesolving. you act like i didn't read your games in detail like everyone else. i don't bullshit, son.
I don't see how you don't think I'm reaching conclusions? I am...

I've concluded Sando is definitely town.
I've concluded Oxy is town.
I've concluded that regardless of your alignment, I can take your word on Quick being town.
I've concluded that despite some valid points against him, the worst is probably town.
I've also concluded:
In post 961, mutantdevle wrote:if either Ceejay or Alonso flip scum I think the worst would be town based on general interactions (Alonso recently and Ceejay throughout the thread). Alonso's and Ceejay's flips won't say much about each other though.
I've also concluded that you and Quick are definitely not both scum together.
I've concluded that Ceejay is the most likely to be scum on my wagon.
I've concluded that I'm biased against both Korina (now piss) and Pintu so it's not a good idea to push either of them for wagons.

And that's just the stuff off the top of my head. I'm pretty sure I made other conclusions about what certain flips would mean for the alignments of other players.

Also, I've made attempts to draw other conclusions. But, did you know, sometimes, things come back inconclusive?

Like I'm not entirely sure what you are wanting from me here? I feel like you've started this game by scum reading me because you hadn't yet made the distinction that I was an unusual player, so by the time you've gone through my meta, you're conf. biased against me which is hard to back out of once you're in that mindset. I disagree with quite a few of your reads and I'm not comfortable with your position on me but I am getting town vibes from that - but I'm not sure about that. And saying I'm unsure on things like that is not wishy-washy, it's how I play. I'm rarely ever confident and second guessing myself is a regularity.
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Post Post #1323 (isolation #117) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:30 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1203, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1202, Quick wrote:
In post 1199, MOMOMEN wrote:the amount of times that i've heard a player say "you can't read me like any other players lol." that's exactly the point of meta, you're not another player. you are you, and that makes you special. it just doesn't make you lynch immune lmao.

- kts
he's doing self meta... Prove him wrong.
i already did lol. his meta is to not make definitive scumreads as wolf, and you can clearly see in his last post he includes not one. i'm glad he spewed his townreads though.

checkmate.
Ceejay...
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Post Post #1324 (isolation #118) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:34 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1323, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1203, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1202, Quick wrote:
In post 1199, MOMOMEN wrote:the amount of times that i've heard a player say "you can't read me like any other players lol." that's exactly the point of meta, you're not another player. you are you, and that makes you special. it just doesn't make you lynch immune lmao.

- kts
he's doing self meta... Prove him wrong.
i already did lol. his meta is to not make definitive scumreads as wolf, and you can clearly see in his last post he includes not one. i'm glad he spewed his townreads though.

checkmate.
Ceejay...
Besides, Korina and Pintu are still scum reads... I'm just not going to be pushing them all that much despite actually pushing Pintu a bit earlier. If people had agreed with me on Pintu then I would have taken it further, but what's the point in pushing a scum read that has little to go on when no one else agrees with you? We have enough shit in this thread that leads to nothing in this thread.
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Post Post #1325 (isolation #119) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:37 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1217, Quick wrote:What you have to look for in the tin foil is Town thought process and Pint is ripe with it. He can't fake shit that well.
I've played with Pintu in a scum team. He is most certainly good at faking shit and manipulating people. Don't underestimate him.
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Post Post #1326 (isolation #120) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:00 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1228, ceejayvinoya wrote:1. Why don't you believe him then? You think alonzo is wrong about the worst?
2. Are you saying that being busy IRL and lurking is AI?
3. Rvs scum claim??? NAI. Quick vote? He said himself that it was an rxn test.
4. Too bad.
5. Define his town attitude? The way he helps town? The worst practically said earlier that being helpful is NAI for him.

I don't have to justify my vote. I was sheeping momomen like I said earlier. You can't judge me for that since you tried to sheep too :P
1. Just because he raises a few points that doesn't make him right. Ofc I think he's wrong, hence the town lean on the worst, but that's blatantly not the point. His criticisms of him come from a town PoV and I like that.

2. Again, of course not. My read on Korina has always been that he's scummy. Being inactive isn't going to make my read reset to null.

3. For the RVS claim you are either refusing to acknowledge context to how I view it or have simply forgotten. Go back and read the posts I made about it at the time and you'll understand. Furthermore, I don't believe that was a reaction test. People were criticising it and he backed out in a clever way. The reaction test achieved nothing. Everyone of either alignment is going to criticise you for such a stupid case and there are no conclusions to be made from such a test.
In post 208, Korina wrote:I wanted to see what people would do in reaction to what I said.

I'll post what I got from it later when I have my laptop.
I'm not sure if I'm being blind here but I never saw him say anything about what he got from this. It was a pointless reaction test, it achieved nothing, and, in my opinion, he only claimed that to get out of a shitty read.

5. Town attitude is general game solving and coming from a PoV that he doesn't know people's alignments. Thank you for pointing out what he said about his helpfulness, I've just realised I've been overlooking that. However, there's still a difference between helpfulness and being town since town doesn't know people's alignments.

6. I'm not criticising you for sheeping at all. You're right that you didn't have to justify your vote, so why are you? You're now only just criticising me for things that you could have done any time throughout the game. That sounds like scum trying to justify themselves in light of a potential mislynch. If you are actually just sheeping, what's with these criticisms you're now throwing at me? You're not sheeping MOMO, you're currently building your own reasons to be on my wagon.
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Post Post #1328 (isolation #121) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:37 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1327, the worst wrote:devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio
That website? Awesome.

Pintu? Scummy. His defence of Oxy is weird, especially since he said myself and Oxy could be scum buddies earlier and has barely interacted with him since. He was also using a bit of appeal to emotion in your little argument with him which I saw him use in our scum game together. Other than that, alarm bells are ringing in my head and my gut when I read Pintu's posts and my gut reads are usually more accurate than my more reasonable ones. So take that as you will but just know I am fully up for wagoning him.
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Post Post #1332 (isolation #122) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:23 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1330, the worst wrote:the initial lurk-lurk-lurk-defence manoeuvre pinged me too but his response was outstanding.

rate the hydra for me?
I trust some of their opinions but not their motives. If they ever flip town then I'll probably sheep some of their reads in their absence.
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Post Post #1333 (isolation #123) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:36 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1331, the worst wrote:could you link me to what you perceived to be AtE in your last game with scum!pingu btw?
Spoiler: Pintu being emotionally manipulative
In post 1107, pinturicchio wrote:@NSG, I really don't know what to say to you, because you haven't said where the hell are you coming from with your read on me, sorry
In post 1184, pinturicchio wrote:Ok, first of all: I am the better vig option. Sorry Gamma, but Dino is right: the stupid wagon on me was a death sentence as I'm not a PR. Town already made that mistake and there's no turning back. And yes, stupid wagon, fucking stupid wagon, because almost all the reads about me on this game were "that post from Pin looks like newb!town" or "I've seen "newb!scum playing like Pin". I subscribed to this game to play with experienced players to learn quickly and be contributive, but no matter how much effort I took (and yeah, a lot of effort using google translate almost the entire time to use the exact words I'm trying to say), no one really cared about what I had to say in this game. "You overexplain yourself" of fucking course I do, I don't speak fluent english, I'm here because of that. I really tried to be helpful, but it was impossible. Please, lynch or vig me this day, as I assume I will be more helpful being dead than alive in this game.
In post 1187, pinturicchio wrote:Secondly, and to be a little more positive, I did learn a lot with this game, so thank you all. Hope my flip helps anyone to build better cases on D2 as I feel every single case on this day was Dino talking shit and trying to be MVP.
In post 1188, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1186, Mathdino wrote:@pintu: i'll listen to your reads if i'm still alive btw

hope you don't fall into the "fuck the community for D1 lynching me" mindset tbh
the first game i played with hyper-experienced players got me D1 lynched for bullshit reasons
sometimes it's more about charisma than anything else, which can be annoying but things get better
Don't worry, I'll keep playing as my english has already improved and I learned a lot from this game: I need more confidence on myself and my own cases and reads. I know you took time to read what I had to say and there are others that did too, so sorry for generalizing but that's how I felt this game.
In post 1189, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1185, Aneninen wrote:Jay: I know.

But right now I seriously doubt if I did anything that would change anything.

I took a look while I was working and I saw no cases. Players are sheeping sheeping players. That's all I can see. Even during a brief look at all the pages I saw plenty of scummy posts from almost all of you. (You're no exception.) Would it be worth pointing the out? I'd spend hours with posting only to face the fact: noone would care.
Exactly how I feel, and it's even more unffair for you since you have done a lot to contribute. It just feels like people took two random wagons just to have a lynch and a vig target. Even if you flip scum, I would say it was just a lucky guess.
In post 1220, pinturicchio wrote:This is exactly the shit I was talking about: you guys just like so much the smell of your own farts that it's impossible playing along with you. "I KNEW THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, THIS WAS ALL PLANNED ALONG!!1!ONE!1" Nicely done, A50
In post 1221, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1218, Luca Blight wrote:Fair enough Pin, but why not vote Mutant when the wagon built? He was clearly your favoured lynch, or so it seemed.
"Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all", said Pinturicchio, but nobody cared. I will be vigged today as it is the best for town, and I'm town, so now I don't like that strategy.
In post 1225, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1224, Luca Blight wrote:
@Pin:
But then if we followed you and voted A50 then presumably that would also draw out a claim, so...
I'm voting for the player who I now think is the most probable scum of all; if you wanna follow, that's up to you. I'm playing my game now that I'm certainly a dead man walking.
In post 1227, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1223, JaydragonKing wrote:This is Almost's ego finally reaching critical mass. I knew he wouldn't stay silent for too long, especially after he let Dino build it up to be shot Night one by the mafia instead of him.

Pintu, you also have to realize the Vigilante DOES have a mind of their own too. They may very well shoot someone elsa.
Sure, but Vig SHOULD shoot me, as it's better to shoot a VT claim than someone who could be a PR. It's the best for the team, and I'm going to fuck up the vig if he doesn't following the best for the team and trying to be the hero. The ONLY way I survive this is if 1. The JK REALLY thinks I'm town, which I really don't know, or 2. If we get 2 more claims, one of those gets lynched and the other looks scummier than me. I don't expect neither of those happening
In post 1231, pinturicchio wrote:Sorry Luca, I'm tired of this bullshit, not giving my thoughts again to not be useful as it had been the entire game. People like NSG and A50 comes from nowhere, starts a wagon without arguments and now I'm 99% dead. Want some quick thoughts? You are locktown, win the game for us and keep pushing those who are playing like shit.
In post 1261, pinturicchio wrote:I don't really know why I have to say this, but again: I wasn't voting for mutant, I was voting for Aneninen. Could you stop making assumptions that started off from a lie? Just lynch me already, you qill get more info from that than from A50 lying to get his "I KnEW YOu WeRe gOIng TO do ThaT!!1" gimmick
In post 1267, pinturicchio wrote:The lesson here is that I'm right about not being considered in this game. As A50 said in his first read list, "literally, WHO?"
In post 1275, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1273, Mathdino wrote:Not gonna lie, this lynch feels wrong
But I just don't see other viable lynches right now with 3 days on the deadline
I guess A50 could be scum but we're not d1 lynching him
I'm pretty low on townreads :/
Why are "WE" not D1 lynching A50???? Because you say so? Because he's not expendable like me or Aneninen?? That's what's going on this game's D1 tbh. Just kill us already without trying to be sweet with us, if you want to play only with experienced players, don't let us in in the first place.
In post 1285, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1277, Mathdino wrote:What?

A50 is a player I have a good record of sorting given time and flips. I can generally tell which players fall under that category. It has nothing to do with experience. I'd just as quickly say we're not d1 lynching Paradox.
Again, WE'RE not d1 lynching Paradox? Good for you if you can sort A50, I don't trust you and your reads as me being in this position is partly because of you. The possibility of you being scum with A50 and winning the game just by saying "hey trust me we are not lynching this guy on D1" is getting more and more plausible. What's going to happen tomorrow? What changes between D1 and D2 for A50? He automatically get's his role pasted on his forehead and it becomes obvious what his alignment is?

I'm tired of your leadership, it's full of manipulation and making the game go the way YOU want, but not the rest. Tired of "I know the best for town" vibe
In post 1305, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1304, Gamma Emerald wrote: One thing I find fun is after being accused of being on a scum motivated wagon Anen tries to wagon Mathdino.
Like I'm seeing less and less that I like. Fuck it I'm following this lead.
VOTE: Aneninen
He was not accused of being on a scum motivated wagon, the wagon started MUCH AFTER he placed his vote on Mutant. I'm really tired of people reading the fuck they want on this game. Gamma, if you don't trust A50, don't make the game easy for him voting the wagon he is trying to push without reasons.
In post 1322, pinturicchio wrote:ME WALLPOSTING? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HOW MUCH FUCKING POSTS DO YOU HAVE IN THIS GAME, DINO????
In post 1325, pinturicchio wrote:You saying I make wallposts when the only really big post I made was full of spoiler tags is just the cherry of the cake of this game. Saying that the reason this game is mainly to wallposts and not because of your fucking lame 1v1 with Luca to see who has the longer dick is just painful, and the lack of posting of other people could be mainly because of neither wallposts and said 1v1, so could you make any good reads at all, Dino?
P-edit: apology accepted, still thinking the 1v1 was much more determinant
In post 1328, pinturicchio wrote:Actually I just want this day finished so I get vigged and look what A50 says when D2 comes. Spoiler alert: "whatever, he was the better option"
VOTE: Aneninen
In post 1340, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1337, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1325, pinturicchio wrote:You saying I make wallposts when the only really big post I made was full of spoiler tags is just the cherry of the cake of this game. Saying that the reason this game is mainly to wallposts and not because of your fucking lame 1v1 with Luca to see who has the longer dick is just painful, and the lack of posting of other people could be mainly because of neither wallposts and said 1v1, so could you make any good reads at all, Dino?
P-edit: apology accepted, still thinking the 1v1 was much more determinant
i neither started that nor insisted that anyone do anything more than skim that

every time that happened i actively asked to disengage

but then it became "yo mathdino is scum for dropping the conversation"

like obviously games are much better without 1v1s, i think the content of 1v1s is barely alignment indicative and should largely be skipped
Disengaging throwing shade in those posts is not disengaging at all, you knew Luca was going to reply to you. Don't try to sell me that shit. I tried to disengage that 1v1 telling Luca to back off, because you were clearly going to keep saying "smarter" shit
In post 1353, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1350, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1347, Luca Blight wrote:If Paradox or Creature claimed VT would you be saying they would have to be lynched at some point? Of course you wouldn't.
creature is just gonna get NK'd

paradox i guess is policyviggable, i wouldn't mind a vig there if he just claimed VT out of nowhere (which would be inherently scummy)
So now you're saying that you wouldn't mind to vig your locktown (as said by you)... I don't really know why the fuck I trusted you
In post 1367, pinturicchio wrote:The thing is, if you were townreading someone, there's no chance he would get to L-1 because "we are not lynching him today guys", so let's cut the hypothetical crap?
In post 1406, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1405, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1403, pinturicchio wrote:Well then, what are you waiting for. Jump on the wagon again, let's lynch Aneninen and if he flips town, the vig shoots Dino. If Aneninen flips scum, we follow the first plan and the vig shoots me.
You being scum is in no way conditional on Anen being scum, and obviously verbalising this plan is a bucket of WIFOM.

Do you believe you're never getting lynched given the circumstances?
I didn't understand a single thing of your post. I want this day to end and I'm persuading Luca to lynch Aneninen so we can go on. This has been an eternal dawn for me
In post 1473, pinturicchio wrote:Fuck it, I'm not following scum. A50 is pocketing Dino without even trying. Dino: "I'm starting to think that NSG could be scum. A50, what do you think?" - A50: "lynch NSG" - Dino: "Yeah, I agree". WHAT. THE ACTUAL. FUCK.
VOTE: Almost50
In post 1499, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1492, Almost50 wrote:OK. So Dino wanted a readlist? Here are my final reads:

1. Mathdino (Town)
2. JaydragonKing (Scum)
3. Almost50 (Town, of course)
4. Luca Blight (Shitty Town)
5. northsidegal (Scum)
6. Creature (How is this still in the game?)
7. Pinturicchio (Shitty Town)
8. Aneninen (Town)
9. Gamma Emerald (Town)
10. TheGoldenParadox (80% Shitty Town, 20% Scum)
11. jmo16mla (Town_
12. mutantdevle (80% Scum, 20% Shitty Town)
Oh, so I went from "the best lynch today because you are clearly scum" to "shitty town"? Throw me some shade, sugar!
In post 1503, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1493, Mathdino wrote:Does anyone here legitimately believe that I'm town and A50 is scum?

Because I'm telling you right now that out of anyone in this playerlist, town-me has by FAR the best shot at determining A50's alignment, and I'm saying he's town. If he's not, he's going to be incredibly easy to sort tomorrow.

You guys are utterly failing to understand his progression this game and are essentially proving correct the idea that it's better off to not show up in the thread at all.

The fact that no one sees that A50 and I have a legitimate argument for NSG being weird (and she is in fact posting in every game other than this one, I CHECKED) and that A50 is being explicitly wagoned for it is extremely concerning.

If anyone thinks A50 is scum you're gonna have to make a real nice case for an A50/Mathdino scumteam because you're not going to make a good case for "Mathdino is just fucking wrong about A50 here".
"town-me has by FAR the best shot at determining A50's alignment", "I have a legitimate argument for NSG being weird"... GTFO with your MVPness and accept you are wrong for one fucking time, as you were wrong jumping on Aneninen's and my wagon for no single reason at all
In post 1506, pinturicchio wrote:Or either. Man, fuck english
In post 1514, pinturicchio wrote:In today's premiere, we have Dino as Anakin Skywalker
Almost50 as Sheev Palpatine
Pin as Mace Windu

Come to the light side, Ani, and prevent shitty prequels

Also Jay as jmo as Jar Jar Binks
In post 1519, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1512, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1505, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1502, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1499, pinturicchio wrote:Oh, so I went from "the best lynch today because you are clearly scum" to "shitty town"? Throw me some shade, sugar!
Making sarcastic statements like this does basically nothing to convince anyone or advance the gamestate.
Not voting for obv!scum A50 neither
You want to turn this into a "I'm right" "No I'm right" argument?

Like jesus fuck dude this isn't being clever and this isn't adding anything to the discussion. No one has made a good argument for A50-scum yet.
It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?
In post 1533, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1523, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1519, pinturicchio wrote:It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?
Because you and Paradox aren't good at recognising pocketing.
Because you say so, right?
In post 1536, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1510, Almost50 wrote:@Pintu: Would you be willing to be called "The Definition of Stupidity" once I flip? I know you think high of your game (almost everybody does) but you are not as good as you may think. Not even close. Nor even remotely close.
I SAY GIVE ME SOME SHADE, SUGAR
In post 1539, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1537, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1533, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1523, Mathdino wrote:
In post 1519, pinturicchio wrote:It was a fucking joke. And I'm saying he's pocketing you, the loudest and manipulative town alive. You're Anakin, he's Palpatine. Why is that not enough argument for me believing he's scum?
Because you and Paradox aren't good at recognising pocketing.
Because you say so, right?
Because I've pocketed Paradox before and he didn't recognise it at all, and now he thinks that me doing something reasonably different from that is actually pocketing.

And because you're fucking wrong on 2 counts.

If you're interested in improving, you own up to being wrong. If I'm wrong on A50, then yeah, I've learned something. But I'm not wrong here.
Um, I'm not wrong until I see the flip, thank you. Or do you alredy know what's he gonna flip because you are scum? *Shitty Dino argument*
In post 1541, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1540, Mathdino wrote:Behaviour like this is essentially exactly why you're playing badly tbh.
Because you say so, right?
In post 1548, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1542, Mathdino wrote:Calling pintu/Jay/NSG, outside chance of Luca and jmo.

Edit: pintu what are you planning on saying here if A50 and I both flip town?
I think you are town, stop saying the opposite. If A50 flips town, I will say I was wrong about the pocketing thing and I will move on, as any normal person would do. Or do you think I'm the kind of douchebag that would go and say "well this is Dino and A50's fault because yaddah yaddah"?? Nah, I know one or two guys who would do that here, but not me.

And may I just add that this emotional display essentially got Almost50 lynched instead of us 3 in the scum team who were
all
promising wagons day 1.

Do not underestimate Pintu.
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Post Post #1338 (isolation #124) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:17 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1337, pinturicchio wrote:You're over reaching with your gut read on me! Either you're very very wrong, ir very very scummy.
You missed the third option where defending someone can easily be interpreted as the defender town reading who they are defending due to that kinda being the whole point of defending someone.

So what is your read on Oxy?
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Post Post #1429 (isolation #125) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:50 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1348, pisskop wrote:Like seriously you're going to defend yourself instead of attack or admit your flaws?
What are you referring to as flaws I'm not admitting.

They said the mistake I made was scummy. My response was that it wasn't AI and just a mistake. What am I refusing to admit here?
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Post Post #1430 (isolation #126) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 5:58 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1358, pinturicchio wrote:About the emotional manipulation: look at the timeline. He (Mutant) started gutreading me as scum, then I asked the worst to be careful, then Mutant comes and talks about me being good at emotional manipulation. Do you see what I'm saying? He's building a case after thinking I'm scum, not before, so he's reaching as hell. I haven't manipulated anyone in this game, not even close of what I did in that scumgame. My posts directed at Duckling weren't game related, I just asked him to not make toxic posts because I don't like them.
That post pointing out your emotional manipulation in our previous scum game was not building a case on you at all. All I was doing was answering the worst's question in relation to the shade I was throwing out you. Throwing shade at someone and building a case on them is not the same thing. For example, when I say that perhaps the reason you see this as a case is because you have a paranoid scum mind, I'm throwing shade and
not
building a case.

I have no desire to build a case on you at all this game. As you've pointed out, because I already have a scum read on you from gut, if I try to form a case it will be inherently biased. I have and do, however, encourage others to build a case on you for me to agree with. I want to know why I scum read you just as much as you do.
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Post Post #1432 (isolation #127) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:11 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Intent
to put Icon at L-1 (basically a hammer that has a short duration of time to back out of until N_M shows up) if I either like MOMO's case on them or time is running low for the day (eg 2-3 days left).

Though just saying, having reread Sando's earlier stuff on Icon, I'm definitely more comfortable with a lynch there.
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Post Post #1436 (isolation #128) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:17 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Sure.

I do want to hear MOMO's case though, I'll probably join the wagon regardless unless what they have to say is complete shit that's reaching. After that, we can force a claim out of Icon with our 2 votes.

Pedit: yeah.
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Post Post #1440 (isolation #129) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:55 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Since when does he ever post walls?

Also, @N_M, gtfo, if you're not hammering then your vote doesn't count.
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #130) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:35 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1466, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1462, Sando wrote:
In post 1454, MOMOMEN wrote:i am still here. not really feeling too well today, but i can offer that if ico flips town mutant and alonzo are spewed wolf.
I'm going with Alonzo as second most scummy regardless and most likely partner. What part of mutant says him being on Ico!town is particularly bad?
he never mentions ico in his iso but suddenly wants to hammer? thats always wolf motivated.
"My reads are great, everyone should sheep me, I know at least 2/3 scum!"

Me: Strongly considers sheeping them.

"Wow look at this nub suddenly saying they'd vote for someone they haven't mentioned much!"

Besides, I have interacted with Icon and mentioned him a few times... like what's your problem here? He's been a null read for me this entire game since he has yet to do anything townie. I've also criticised him and agreed with criticisms on him but they've never been enough to make me scum read him. I also said last time he was wagoned up that I'd be willing to join the wagon so this isn't suddenly wanting to hammer at all.

Also, I'm still waiting for your case on Icon. I'm confident that he's probably the lynch candidate today but you said you'd explain more about why you're voting Icon but you're yet to do so.
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Post Post #1471 (isolation #131) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:40 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Also, why are you talking about "if Icon flips this it means this about mutant" when you're clearly saying that I'm scum regardless of the flip? Don't try to force association tells on me when the associations clearly don't matter to you.
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Post Post #1474 (isolation #132) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:15 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1472, Sando wrote:Because I asked him. Forced associations would be scummy, do you think he's doing that?
Yes. Right now, I feel like they're setting up Icon's flip so that they have reason to push me next regardless of what they flip. But then another part of me tells me that they would only need to make these points about 1 particular flip since they would know what Icon would flip if they were scum. To which, another part of my brain says that they are quite intelligent so there's the possibility that they are scum making these points with the pretence that they don't know what Icon would flip. Then I simply tell myself to stfu because the only reason I'm seeing MOMO as scummy is that I don't like how they are trying to get me lynched also. And now I'm at the stage where I'm telling that statement to shut up because I'd probably be fully scum reading MOMO by now if I wasn't feeling so OMGUSy about it. Basically, I feel like they'd be a scum read if they were making these points about someone else but because they're directed towards me I can't tell if their accusations against me is clouding my judgement of them. But then a part of me is starting to say "well your reads are bad so you're probably wrong anyway". Which then makes me realise that perhaps this whole self-doubting and back and forth thing is probably the reason why my reads are so shit so maybe I should just go with what I genuinely think and that's that MOMO is scum setting up 2 misslynches in a really sly and clever way.
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Post Post #1475 (isolation #133) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:19 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Conclusion: I revoke my intent to put Icon at L-1. It's not like y'all need my support to get that lynch through anyway.
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Post Post #1491 (isolation #134) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:41 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Well, I guess we should probably spend twilight and the start of tomorrow talking about whether we think random was genuinely oblivious to how N_M works...

Meanwhile, a choice will be made tonight by a certain individual over whether or not they want to deal with the problem that is N_M. But if he's still alive tomorrow, he should be the default lynch day 2.
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Post Post #1494 (isolation #135) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:43 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Personally, I think this is feigning ignorance.

EBWOP: N_M
always
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Post Post #1510 (isolation #136) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1503, Randomnamechange wrote:
In post 1496, Alonzo wrote:Midget sorry!!

I meant @Midget

Did you read any part of this thread?
skimmed most of it. and have been keeping up since i replaced in.
devle jumping on this is kinda sus when i already gave intent to l-1
if it was so obvious that nm would lolhammer why not comment then?
The whole point of stating intent to L-1 is that we know putting anyone to L-1 makes N_M lolhammer. So how can you claim this when you were obviously fully aware of what N_M does hence the whole reason you stated intent to L-1 rather than actually doing it...
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Post Post #1513 (isolation #137) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:24 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1512, Randomnamechange wrote:
In post 1510, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1503, Randomnamechange wrote:
In post 1496, Alonzo wrote:Midget sorry!!

I meant @Midget

Did you read any part of this thread?
skimmed most of it. and have been keeping up since i replaced in.
devle jumping on this is kinda sus when i already gave intent to l-1
if it was so obvious that nm would lolhammer why not comment then?
The whole point of stating intent to L-1 is that we know putting anyone to L-1 makes N_M lolhammer. So how can you claim this when you were obviously fully aware of what N_M does hence the whole reason you stated intent to L-1 rather than actually doing it...
that wasnt why i stated intent to l-1
Why did you then?
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Post Post #1551 (isolation #138) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:56 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1534, Quick wrote:So... I had TRs on both Duck and Ico...

What do people think of that?
I don't think there's too much of a correlation. You got 2 reads right? Yay you.
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Post Post #1552 (isolation #139) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:56 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1536, Quick wrote:Let's do it!

VOTE: Sando

Choomotherfuckingchooo
We're not lynching Sando...
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Post Post #1556 (isolation #140) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:59 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1541, ceejayvinoya wrote:Nooooo. You're both voting on the wrong player. I'm voting the guy who has two of his top scumreads flip town.
Do you think that definitely means he is scum though? I feel like scum MOMOMEN would want to push the worst into a lynch rather than straight up kill him at night. Unless they knew he was a PR.


Regardless of the above statement, do y'all think that scum shot the worst thinking they were hitting a PR or do you think it was just luck? I'm thinking it was just luck but it wouldn't surprise me if the worst soft claimed or crumbed somewhere that scum picked up on.
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Post Post #1561 (isolation #141) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:01 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1544, MOMOMEN wrote:the worst kill implies off wagon scum so we're looking at
mutantdevle-(2): Iconeum, pinturicchio
Not Voting--(4): mutantdevle, pisskop, Alonzo, Quick
a pool of these guys too. can clear quick and pint i think. that means devle wagon was entirely composed of town.
What about the worst kill implies that it was made by scum off the wagon?

And even then, surely some scum would be on the wagon and other's off. What do you think that ratio would be?
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Post Post #1562 (isolation #142) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:03 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1545, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1454, MOMOMEN wrote:i am still here. not really feeling too well today, but i can offer that if ico flips town mutant and alonzo are spewed wolf.

-kts
@MOMOMEN does this still apply?
What makes you think it wouldn't?
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Post Post #1563 (isolation #143) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:03 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1549, MOMOMEN wrote:yeah specifically to devle.
Why does it no longer apply to Alonso?
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Post Post #1567 (isolation #144) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:07 am

Post by mutantdevle »

Momomen, are you ever going to reach a point in this game where you're not confirmation biased criticising practically everything I do?
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Post Post #1574 (isolation #145) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:12 am

Post by mutantdevle »

@

First of all, are you really trying to suggest I would kill the worst over comments he made about me very early in the game which has since changed? Think about it, if I was to kill someone for scum reading me then I'd obviously pick you.

Second of all, you are now describing Pintu as scum based on a vote on him by the worst which was shortly redacted despite literally describing the wagon on me around the time of Ico's as being entirely town which included Pintu...

So do you think Pintu is scum or not?
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Post Post #1577 (isolation #146) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:15 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1571, MOMOMEN wrote:devle make a convincing defense or lay down and die. i don't particularly care either way.
I don't get why you're so toxic... and given this toxicity, I doubt you'd ever listen to a single word I say in my defence. I've been actively defending myself this entire game and poked holes in several of your arguments but you never see that. All you see when you look at me is a wolf despite there being no full moon.
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Post Post #1580 (isolation #147) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:17 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1576, MOMOMEN wrote:
In post 1574, mutantdevle wrote:@

First of all, are you really trying to suggest I would kill the worst over comments he made about me very early in the game which has since changed? Think about it, if I was to kill someone for scum reading me then I'd obviously pick you.

Second of all, you are now describing Pintu as scum based on a vote on him by the worst which was shortly redacted despite literally describing the wagon on me around the time of Ico's as being entirely town which included Pintu...

So do you think Pintu is scum or not?
i don't know i'm thinking about it.

also yeah, worst was townreading you. i didn't want to say anything to see if you picked up on it. VOTE: pintu
You confuse me sometimes. Maybe it's the tone in which I'm reading your posts :/
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Post Post #1585 (isolation #148) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:19 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1579, MOMOMEN wrote:anyway, I'M FUCKING MAD. the wolves killed my favorite player, so now i'm coming after each and every one of you because you fuckers ruined this game for me. the kill was me OR ANYONE BUT THE WORST. anyway, i just fucking moved my vote on you, so go solve before you change my mind to move back on you.
I mean, that certainly explains your recent posts :lol:

And I'll have to decline your offer on solving for now because I need sleep. But when I wake up and get back from college then maybe I'll do some solving then :£
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Post Post #1635 (isolation #149) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:32 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1597, Quick wrote:
In post 1595, Alonzo wrote:@quick Why Sando?
You judge logical type players based on their stances. His stances are not good IMO.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by his stances aren't good?

Quote some of his stances if necessary and explain why there are sub-par.
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Post Post #1636 (isolation #150) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:42 am

Post by mutantdevle »

I can relate to Pintu's lack of engagement.

Pintu troubles me because my gut is screaming SCUM! SCUM! SCUM! when I read his posts but at the same time I can see a town ethos within a lot of his posts (especially since the start of day 2). I'm hesitant to discard this guy feeling because I've done that so many times in the past and almost always been wrong. Regardless, I think the best way to sort Pintu is his attitude towards scum partners being wagoned. So once we get people flipping red I'm sure it will become more and more self-evident over whether Pintu is scum. (at least, it will to me since I've had that experience with him).
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Post Post #1637 (isolation #151) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:43 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1618, pinturicchio wrote:mutant is still scum from my point of view
May I just ask, is this simply because of my own attitude towards you or do you have other reasons for scum reading me?
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Post Post #1638 (isolation #152) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:45 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1620, pinturicchio wrote:Oh one last thing: are we not gonna judge Not Mafia for lolhammering just because he's Not Mafia? He lynched with no claim and our cop is dead now so we can't sort him with a PR
VOTE: Not_Mafia

I'm down for policy lynching N_M today and today only. If we're lynching him, it should be today. A vote on him is going to replace my 'not voting' for today.
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #153) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:06 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1639, pinturicchio wrote:No no, your attitude towards me is NAI, I'm scumreading you because of meta and because of the worst dying on N1
What about the worst's death says that I'd be scum? What do you think my motive would be for wanting him dead?
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Post Post #1749 (isolation #154) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:08 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1748, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1639, pinturicchio wrote:No no, your attitude towards me is NAI, I'm scumreading you because of meta and because of the worst dying on N1
What about the worst's death says that I'd be scum? What do you think my motive would be for wanting him dead?
Spoiler: If your reason is the reason I think town!you would be straight onto then I may start ignoring my gut read on you.
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Post Post #1750 (isolation #155) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:19 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1725, ceejayvinoya wrote:I'll be more cooperative with everyone if this guy gets lynched today. Now lemme lurk in peace.
I'm not stopping you from contributing y'know...
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Post Post #1758 (isolation #156) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:33 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1755, pinturicchio wrote:I don't know what you are thinking and that could be easily stated ("that was not the reason I was thinking, you're scum!1!!one!"), but yeah, I think you wanted the worst dead because in Open 714 you tended to suggest we should kill the people with good reads instead of trying to get the PR dead; when we lynched A50, you said on the scum PT "I can't believe we lynched one of the strongest players, I was thinking we should kill A50 just because of how accurate his earlier reads were". I don't think the scumteam (aka you and your partners) noticed the crumbing from the worst (because I didn't noticed and I'm a good PR hunter), it was a lucky coincidence that he was a PR.

So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect, and you were MY suspect on D1 since forever, so who would have known, I was right, you are scum.
First of all, I was never going to accuse you of scum for your answer to this, I already think you are scum and I've already stated that I'm not going to push that because I reckognise that my stance on you is biased.

Second of all, your reason here is close to what I was thinking, but not quite right, and I also think this reason is poor compared to what I was thinking.

In our game, the reason why I thought it was such a great achievement to have A50 lynched day 1 is because he is widely recognised as a good player; and a lot of players there knew that. As a result, his reads were trusted more. He had not only correctly identified me as scum, but he also had criticisms to say about both Anen and you. But thankfully your well played noob card and AtE, followed by his self hammer, led to a great mislynch. Personally, I would say that the worst is not on A50's level of historically accurate reads (no offence @the worst) and hence wouldn't be such a priority target for any scum team.

As I said earlier, I was only the worst's suspect at the start of the day. I would probably say he was town leaning me by the end of it; at the very least he was null reading me. Now tell me, why, as scum, would I choose to kill someone who I had succesfully changed their read of me, or at the very least, made them reconsider it? Furthermore, what makes you think I would be the one to dictate the kill? You know me. At least, you claim to. Do you honestly take me for the kind of player that would selfishly want my team to spend a kill eliminating someone that threatens me and me alone? And if your argument is yes, that I would do that, then why on earth would I be killing the worst and not someone else more strongly pushing me such as MOMOMEN?



As for the reason I would have liked you to give, it's the exact reason you dismissed. If you had argued that your experiance with me as mafia, where I did make a deal out of reading people's behaviour to see if they are PRs or trying to find crumbs, and hence that I may have spotted the worst's crumb, then that honestly would have made me town read you and hence ignore my gut read on you because that would have shown a strong town mindset from you actively trying to solve and really reading into things. The argument of "they scum read you and now they are dead so you must be scum" is so overused and mostly innacurate and all you've done here is used meta to try and back it up. So I'm afraid I can't give you town points for it.
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Post Post #1759 (isolation #157) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:34 am

Post by mutantdevle »

@MOMOMEN sorry if the above post offends you by over explaining things.
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Post Post #1774 (isolation #158) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:31 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1762, Oxy wrote:This assumes way too much about the worst's reads. It potentially spews any other scum reads the worst has as town, but at minimum mutantdevle should have considered that the worst has other reads that could have been taken into account when making an nk decision.

Also, mutant basically just confirmed that he should have seen the worst's soft.

So why didn't you see the worst's soft? Do your soft-identifying skills diminish when you are town?
Personally, I think you are assuming more when you claim he was properly scum reading me. I mean, these were the lest 2 posts of his that mentioned me (from a simple CTRL+F)...
In post 1213, the worst wrote:Is Piss by virtue of a Korina read?
or did you find his opening towny?

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

pedit: good post...he refuses to do anything townie ://
In post 1327, the worst wrote:devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio
Take this as you will.

Though just sayin', he literally fucking says it.

But I suppose the start of the game where he was suspicious of me must be his more accurate reads than what he says here. And I would totally kill him for tarnishing my good ole' townie imposed name.

And, I don't know about you, but I find I don't need to PR hunt when I'm town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I PR hunt as scum, not as town.

Honestly, it's becoming a little frustrating how you're making this accusation against me when you're not even looking at the facts. ('you' is a synonym for Oxy and Pintu here) I'd also like to think I'm more inteligent than basing a night kill off of how someone
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Post Post #1776 (isolation #159) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:40 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1755, pinturicchio wrote:So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect
Explain how you missed this or why you chose to ignore it:
In post 1213, the worst wrote:Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown
Thanks.
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Post Post #1778 (isolation #160) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:43 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1777, Oxy wrote:Why did you assume that the hypothetical mafia team that pintu placed you in would have no reasons to kill the worst, other than his read on you?
Because his whole point that he's making here is that the worst's death means that I am scum...

I'm not assuming anything here, he is literally accusing me of killing the worst for scum reading me.
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Post Post #1782 (isolation #161) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:49 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1779, Sando wrote:Problems:
Anyone claiming to hide behind a scum tonight that doesn't die is confirming themselves not the hider to them.
Soloution: if the mafia then kill the hider, we can then use the fact that mafia knew people were lying to work out who the mafia team are.

^^ that sounds fun to do if we are in that situation. I'm all for your idea.
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Post Post #1786 (isolation #162) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:00 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1780, Oxy wrote:yes, but how does responding to that with, "that theory is wrong because I wouldn't have directed the night kill based solely on how a person was reading me, and without regards to my team mates.

Which implies that the worst didn't scum read your hypothetical partners. Which is a really weird assumption to make as town.
I suppose it would help if I knew who my hypothetical partners are so that I know what the worst's reads on them are :lol:

Ngl I find this to be a stupid question. Why is that a weird assumption to make as town? Surely an assumption of the worst scum reading an entire scum team is far more of stretch and even scum reading 2 mafia is more statistically unlikely than just scum reading one. [1/12 chances of 1 scum], [1/12*1/11 for 2 scum], and [1/12*1/11*1/10 for all 3 scum].

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.
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Post Post #1799 (isolation #163) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1794, Oxy wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.
Yeah, but
why?


I assumed what was most probable.
Why
is that scummy?
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #164) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:39 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Also, fml. I just wrote a long ass theoretical scenario explaining how everyone fake claiming a hider target each day helps us narrow down who the scum are when they are eventually killed only to find my theory wasn't actully that accurate...

If there was only 1 scum left though then doing this would nail them.
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Post Post #1804 (isolation #165) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:51 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1801, Oxy wrote:
In post 1799, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1794, Oxy wrote:We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.
Yeah, but
why?


I assumed what was most probable.
Why
is that scummy?
To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make
any
assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

And I don't want to continue arguing it because I've made my argument for people who might actually /vote mutantdevle, and you are not one of those people.
The 'assumption' I made was within a comment with the general premis that I wouldn't be dictating the kill. Sure I didn't need to mention it, but it was a point of defence.

I was also not fully aware of the worst's read when I made this comment as, unlike what pintu supposedly did, I had not ISO'd the worst. I only recalled that his read eased up on me.


Also, the whole point of any argument is to get a read or further aread on both the players involved. You can't just only have your side. I'm also making an argument for people who might actually vote me by presenting how BS your case is and hence you shouldn't be voting me for this. I might add that simultaniously in presenting your case as BS I'm also making an argument why people might actually vote you (or pintu) instead.

Besides, is it not good to get our interactions for when either of us flips?
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Post Post #1806 (isolation #166) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:54 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1803, Quick wrote:is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).
For a moment there I was like "damn, this is a really good idea and we should totally do this because a hider can claim without fear of being directly attacked" but then I remembered that mafia have a JK and that would totally ruin this (although reduce the risk that the tracker is blocked instead).

Basically, I think that once we lynch the jailkeeper the hider should role claim and follow this strategy.
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Post Post #1807 (isolation #167) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:58 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1758, mutantdevle wrote:Do you honestly take me for the kind of player that would selfishly want my team to spend a kill eliminating someone that threatens me and
me alone?
@Sando I think he's referring to this assumption in bold.

But again, this point was made because Pintu was accusing specifically me for killing the worst for scum reading me. He never mentioned the worst scum reading anyone else in my team, so I made the same assumption that no one else was involved.
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Post Post #1818 (isolation #168) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:32 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1809, Alonzo wrote:@ Mutant

Give us a list?
I think the main reason for most of these changes is loss of confidence or lack of development.

Town:

Sando <-- this is feeling pretty locked tbh.
-0



Town Lean:

Oxy
v1

Quick
-0

Alonso
-0



Null:

Not_Mafia
-0

randommidget
-0



Scum Lean:

MOMOMEN
v1

pisskop
^1



Scum:

Ceejay
v1

Pintu
-0



If you disagree with my reads (as people naturally will and should do), question them; don't shit on them.
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Post Post #1824 (isolation #169) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:59 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1819, Quick wrote:Have you done a reads list like this before as Scum?
Yes. This is my own personal style of reads list.

I was uncomfortable making the ladder list earlier as I prefer to put people into specific catagories rather than making catagories against each other. (btw, the order of each player in each of those catagories does not depict how they compare to each other. Eg. all the town leans are of equal town lean-ness).
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Post Post #1839 (isolation #170) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:16 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1827, pinturicchio wrote:Mutant saying "you're assuming I'm dictating the kill" instead of asking what other reads from the worst could be accurate enough for the scumteam deciding he was the optimal kill pings harder than ever. Of fucking course I don't know who dictates the kill, that's not the point at all. The good news is that mutant thinks he's being less suspicious and his readlist is gold to read when he flips red, so thanks!
:facepalm:

Why is it my job to ask what other reads the worst would be killed for?
Why waste my time accusing me of things when what you want is for me to give my opinion on what reads the worst would be killed for?
Why haven't
you
asked what other reads from the worst would get him killed?
Why would we be asking anyone that question when no one that actually knows is actually going to answer and all we can do is theorise?
Why are you so confident that the worst wasn't killed for his softclaim?
Why are we even assuming that those are the only 2 reasons he could have possibly been killed for?

If who dictates the kill is not the point at all, then why are you claiming I'm scum because the worst died if you claim whether or not I made that decision isn't the point???
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Post Post #1842 (isolation #171) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:20 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

Yes. Repeat yourself.
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Post Post #1843 (isolation #172) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1763, pinturicchio wrote:, but we are not ending this day without everybody else participating
Also, what happened to this @pintu?
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Post Post #1846 (isolation #173) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:24 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1844, pinturicchio wrote:I'm tired doing a 1v1 with you tbh, I'm scumreading you, you're scumreading me, we won't get any further with this and you discrediting everything I say is exhausting
You making up BS is exhausting.

I assume this post means you're not actually going to 'repeat' yourself (I've double checked your iso and you've never answered any of those questions before) or answer any of my questions?
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Post Post #1849 (isolation #174) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:26 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1845, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 1843, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 1763, pinturicchio wrote:, but we are not ending this day without everybody else participating
Also, what happened to this @pintu?
I said that your readlist was gold, so I think that's enough and all the info we will get from the lurking slots
So when you said you wanted to hear from the lurkers before we end the day you meant you only wanted random to make a single 0 content post? Cool.
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Post Post #1850 (isolation #175) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1848, Oxy wrote:I understood you, Pin. I think you were pretty clear, and I agree. It's not a townie thought process to immediately jump to "I wouldn't be in charge of the lynch!"
I mean, that's just a fact based on my submissive personality but alright.
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #176) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:37 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1851, Oxy wrote:Okay, mutant.

Assume Pintu is town, because I'm pretty confident in that read.

How does that change your reads?
The only read I see that changing is restored confidence in my town read on you. Other than that, it wouldn't mean anything.

On the other hand, if Pintu was town and not tunneling me, then maybe I could spend this day doing what I want to do with it, eg. pushing ceejay, instead of having to put so much time and effort into responding to him and you.

Theory: Pintu wouldn't even be scum reading me if I never stated that I was gut scum reading him.
If I recall correctly, I don't think we interacted much at all until that. His whole position on me feels like backlash on me for simply stating a read (which I wasn't even pushing).
Nvm, just checked and he did mention meta scum leans on me but never elaborated. I still think he wouldn't be pushing this hard though.
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Post Post #1866 (isolation #177) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1852, pinturicchio wrote:I scumread you because of meta ---> the worst dies ---> in 714 you tended to suggest we should kill the ones with good reads instead of people difficult to mislynch or someone we suspected it could be a PR ---> the worst was mislynchable, so I think he could had good early reads (note to the word EARLY please) ---> I'm a good PR hunter (and OF COURSE you want to PR hunt when town so you don't push too hard a PR to avoid a claim) and I didn't catch the worst' crumbs (I still think his crumbing was not even intended) ---> conclusion: the worst was killed because of his reads, and he was scumreading mutant almost all the day (even if he suspected you less at the end, Iconeum's flip could turn that again).

So, added to MY OWN SCUMREAD on you, the worst's dead could mean you are effectively scum, BUT THIS CASE IS NOT ONLY BASED ON FUCKING NIGHT KILL ANALYSIS.

The point is not that you dictated the kill, but that the worst was dangerous for scum for a different reason of being a PR, period.

Also, you said "your reason here is close to what I was thinking, but not quite right" and then said that "the reason is the one I dismissed", inconsistency. If I dismissed it, then my reason wasn't close at all.
I don't recall you ever stating your meta reason for scum leaning* me besides the meta surrounding the worst.

In 714 A50's reads wasn't the central reason I wanted him dead, that only added to it. As I've said, A50 is a strong reliable player who many people in that game trusted. Furthermore, he is very difficult to mislynch. That's why it was such an achievement that you managed to do it.

I never suggested we kill the people with good reads. I just said we shouldn't kill the people with bad ones because they are less likely to catch us. I was prioritising PR hunting, hence my suggestions of Jay and NSG.

I also opposed killing people who were mislynchable. I don't get why you're saying the worst was mislynchable like that was a reason I'd want him dead.

Just because you consider yourself a good PR hunter doesn't mean you wouldn't miss the worst's soft claim. As you said, you weren't even looking. Scum would be.

If the worst was dangerous to the scum team, then that would mean he scum read other's on the scum team. If you genuinly believe this, why aren't you bringing up anyone that could be my scum partner that the worst also scum read?

Did you even read your own post that I was referring to with your reason being close? It was close in the sense that it was meta to do with my attitude in our scum game. But you dismissed the idea that I would have spotted the soft claim because apparently you are the best PR hunter in the world and if you didn't spot it then no one could. Newsflash: Oxy spotted it.



I think you're problem here Pintu is that you're misinterpreting my actions in 714 and applying them incorrectly as meta against me here.

Spoiler: Let me remind you of some of my stances in 714
"We should always kill whoever we think is most tactical / the biggest threat to us."

Let me just clarify that this wasn't about reads alone. PRs are priority threat.

"I think I should primarily use my role cop ability to investigate the people that scum read us the most. This is because people with scum reads on us would be the biggest threat to us if they were a vig or JK."

Again, the reads aren't the threat. It's having the reads and being a PR that's dangerous.

"I think the first person I should role check should be A50 since, as town, he likes to keep some of his reads hidden or ambiguous and sometimes even lie about them in order to make himself less predictable to scum."

Accurate reads not the threat, A50 is the threat in general due to this way of playing. Him being accuarate is just fuel to the fire of wanting him dead because we never know when he's being accurate or not.

"OH MY FUCKING GOD HOW DID ALL 3 OF US SURVIVE THAT AND GET ONE OF THE STRONGEST PLAYERS IN THE GAME MISLYNCHED.

I spent a lot of time thinking we should kill A50 just because of how accurate his earlier reads were but turns out we don't fucking need to.

I was literally laughing out loud when I saw how well that wagon formed and got A50 lynched, that was fucking brilliant Pintu."

A50 was primarily a threat because he's a strong player with a high win rate. As I've been trying to tell you, his reads just made me want him dead more.

"I'd disagree with killing Gamma and TGP because TGP's reads are horribly wrong and Gamma hard town reads you."

Not saying we should lynch people with strong read, just saying people with shit ones should be let live.

"I don't want to check NSG because she's a good candidate for a misslynch so that would be a waste. On the other, if she's staying quiet, it's probably for a reason"

I clearly don't want to be killing good misslynch candidates even when I suspect them as PRs. We investigated NSG that night.

"I have an odd feeling that jay might be the vig.

This pinged me first of all:
"I'm helping the Vigilante have a valid reason so she can shoot whoever she wants and not have to be shit on by you, Dino."
It just seems oddly confident in knowing the pronoun of the vig.

Jay also seemed to not care too much that some were asking for her to be vigged. And then there are small things like this:
"Elsa Jay isn't going anywhere unless the Mafia decides to kill me,"

Of course, there are many times when she references the vig as someone unknown to her but that's naturally a part of hiding your role. There were also a few times when people suggested a lynch on her that she even stated herself she was a better vig target than a lynch one. Basically, it doesn't seem like she fears the vig kill at all.

Since Jay is a possible vig target if she isn't the vig herself, maybe we shouldn't kill her today but instead investigate her. Alternatively, if we do shoot Jay and she isn't the vig, then either our shot will look like the vig kill OR if the vig also targets her then the JK could potentially role claim accusing a townie :3"

PR hunting is clealry my top priority as scum.

"Is Creature really that much of a threat though?

His activity isn't actually that high for usual town Creature levels (from my own experience anyway) - so I don't think he's too widely town read.
He town reads me.
He gave a passing comment stating Jay can die.
He randomly voted Jmo.
He'd prefer to lynch Pintu over Anen (which is the less likely out of you 2 now tbh)."

Again, I wanted him alive because his reads were shit and he was lynch bait. It wasn't that I wanted to kill people with good reads. Of course, we shot Creature that night.

Towards the end, I was heavily concerned with NSG and Gamma's reads. But that's not because I want people with good reads dead, it's because they were both PRs.

Conclusion: most of my scum motivation was in treating PRs with good reads as top priority threats. You've been mistaking it as treating good reads as threats. This is why I would have expected you to accuse me of scum catching a PR rather than scum shooting someone with good reads.
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Post Post #1867 (isolation #178) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1854, pinturicchio wrote:Yes mutant, that's exactly what I meant, brilliant. 10 points for Gryffindor
I'm hufflepuff.
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Post Post #1868 (isolation #179) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1857, pinturicchio wrote:@mutant I already said you don't have to answer me because we are scumreading each other, so go for it, make a case on ceejay. Even better!
I'll do this within the next day or so.
In post 1860, pinturicchio wrote:(and I think Ceejay is mutant's partner and he's trying to distance so if he gets lynched (he will), ceejay will be less suspicious. ceejay voted for mutant on D1 when there were 5 votes on him and the other 4 votes were coming from imo, so that could be distancing too, but don't tell mutant my plan!!)
Just know that I'm perfectly willing to lynch this scum partner :wink:
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Post Post #1870 (isolation #180) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:14 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

I will when I state my case. For now I will return to my college work that I've been staying up all night to do.
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Post Post #1874 (isolation #181) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:34 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1873, pinturicchio wrote:Not quoting your big ass post, just two things:

"If the worst was dangerous to the scum team, then that would mean he scum read other's on the scum team. If you genuinly believe this, why aren't you bringing up anyone that could be my scum partner that the worst also scum read?"
This is exactly what I was talking about: I thought it was weird you started pointing out that "why would I direct the kill" instead of asking this if you're already scumreading me. Too late.

"But you dismissed the idea that I would have spotted the soft claim because apparently you are the best PR hunter in the world and if you didn't spot it then no one could."
Mutant used shading. It's not very effective. I said I'm a good PR hunter, what's wrong with being confident on that? And I said that I believe that what Oxy pointed out was not intended as crumb.

Strike three on your awful tone towards me. Goodnight
It's an obvious question that really didn't need asking because you should have already been stating it... but of course you don't take this opportunity to answer it.

Also, just because it wasn't intended as a crumb but that doesn't mean he wasn't slipping his role and that doesn't mean mafia wouldn't have interpreted it as one. I assure you that I didn't intend on crumbing I was the doctor in Open 701.

Not sure if you're trying to call me out for a scum tone or a hostile one. If you mean a hostile one then you're right. I'm tired. I'm hungry. I want to go to sleep. But I'm stuck doing boring annotations for my course work. Basically, not in a mood to tolerate your BS and I'm getting frustrated easily. I assure you I will be back to my normal passive, only slightly shady, self when I've had some sleep. Which will probably be tommorow rather than later today.
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Post Post #1877 (isolation #182) » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:43 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

:cry:
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Post Post #1911 (isolation #183) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:32 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1879, Alonzo wrote:@mutant

How do you feel that your top scumread is being sheeped by one of your top townreads?
I've already lost a bit of confidence in my town read and made me consider the possibility of a Pintu and Oxy scum team. However, other than that, I don't feel like it makes Oxy look
too
bad since, y'know, town can be wrong.
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Post Post #1912 (isolation #184) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:37 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1903, ceejayvinoya wrote:Where the f is mutant's case on me. Lols
Coming somewhen in a thread near you.

Honestly though I've had a busy few days and mafia has not really been in my mind. I'll probably push you tomorrow if I feel like it but if not then probably Tuesday.
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Post Post #1913 (isolation #185) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:38 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1904, ceejayvinoya wrote:what does the v1s and 0s mean??
v# = moved down # amount of placements since my last reads list.
-0 = read not changed since last reads list.
^# = moved up # of placements since my last reads list.
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Post Post #1914 (isolation #186) » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:40 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1905, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1800, mutantdevle wrote:Also, fml. I just wrote a long ass theoretical scenario explaining how everyone fake claiming a hider target each day helps us narrow down who the scum are when they are eventually killed only to find my theory wasn't actully that accurate...

If there was only 1 scum left though then doing this would nail them.
lols what a terrible idea. Not sure what your scum motivation is for suggesting it tho. I have to rethink things.

UNVOTE:
If you read the thread you'll see it wasn't actually my idea I am just in support of it. Sando was in doubts though so I was going to explain how there is no way it couldn't not benefit us only to realise that my theory was wrong.
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Post Post #1926 (isolation #187) » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:28 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1916, Quick wrote:VOTE: ceejayvinoya

I'm going here and seeing who jumps on and who doesn't.
Does anyone else feel like Quick is just setting himself up here to go "Ha, you're opportunistic scum!" for when I post why I scum read ceejay and anyone else who then agrees with it?
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #188) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:01 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1950, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1948, pinturicchio wrote:CJ is a good vote, yes. Vote CJ, you won't regret!
Lols. You're all wagoning Pintu after I flip town right?
If you give us strong reasons to then certainly yes.
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Post Post #2180 (isolation #189) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:07 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1983, Not_Mafia wrote:The ceejay wagon composition stinks, more votes on random pls
I was about to ask why you'd say this but then I realised it was you saying it and hence you'd be unlikely to explain so now I'm just stating how I would have wanted further detail on this in a sentence that slightly shades you in the hope that you might actually explain.
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Post Post #2182 (isolation #190) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:21 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2095, jjh927 wrote:Actually I'm on page 16 and right now I'm at
pinturicchio
, Alonzo, Not_Mafia all scum
I'm glad someone agrees with me about Pint. Is it possible you could explain your scum read on Pint tomorrow (day 2) when it has more significance?
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Post Post #2183 (isolation #191) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:24 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2182, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 2095, jjh927 wrote:Actually I'm on page 16 and right now I'm at
pinturicchio
, Alonzo, Not_Mafia all scum
I'm glad someone agrees with me about Pint. Is it possible you could explain your scum read on Pint tomorrow (day 2) when it has more significance?
Obviously I mean day 3 :oops:
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Post Post #2184 (isolation #192) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:30 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2130, Sando wrote:Can someone explain why PK/Fitz is a townslot?
It probably isn't.

I like Fitz though so if this is a town slot I'm hoping he can redeem it or, at the very least, allow me to get a firmer grip on a read here.
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Post Post #2187 (isolation #193) » Thu May 03, 2018 10:03 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 1912, mutantdevle wrote:Honestly though I've had a busy few days and mafia has not really been in my mind. I'll probably push you tomorrow if I feel like it but if not then probably Tuesday.
Tuesday, Thursday, what's the difference? :oops:

It's probably best I waited though because now I get to push ceejay on his Birthday, yay!


So first of all, the main issue I have with ceejay is that most of what he writes feels like commentary rather than any actual attempts to game solve. Even then, his slight 'game solving' of asking a few questions here and there leads to almost nothing. Now, I'm not just saying that in the sense that he doesn't really make conclusions or follow up on his questions, it's more to do with how most of them just seem pointless. This overall feels mundane and gives the impression that he's trying to look busy. I would give examples of this but honestly all you have to do is read his ISO with this in mind and you'd see what I mean. I don't think ceejay has actually made any meaningful contribution to this game.

Originally, I did think some of Ceejay's earlier stuff (particularly posts -) was decent game solving. But when you properly look into it, there really isn't much going on and nothing is really achieved; especially if you put his overall effort throughout the game into context. At the time, these series of posts were Ceejay's standard. If that had continued, I'd feel a lot better about him. But in hindsight, when you see that that's the best he's done this game (in my opinion), the idea that he's town really begins to fall apart. From there, it's mostly shit. (The only possible exception would be his later case on me. Which isn't shit but I'll explain why that is scummy a little later in this post). And by now, his input is worth almost nothing. I mean, has he actually done anything day 2?

Part of this is probably that he rarely gives reads unless asked to do so. He isn't volunteering us anything to work with. In fact, he only solidly gives reads on his own accord
Spoiler: 5 times...
In post 258, ceejayvinoya wrote:
Totally agree with this. :)

Sando is probably town and mutant is scummy because I think hes doing what they call IIoA with that long post earlier.
In post 370, ceejayvinoya wrote:Townlean on mutantdevle. I think his answers regarding what happened earlier are genuine. UNVOTE: mutantdevle
In post 463, ceejayvinoya wrote:I'm of the opinion that Sando vs Oxy is TvT. They both have good points.
In post 593, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 592, Quick wrote:
In post 590, the worst wrote:
In post 585, Quick wrote:Also, Pin vs mutant is probably TvT.
How did you reach that?
Their general attitude towards each other shows intent and not just the SvS kind. It reads like they are fighting each other earnestly and that most often comes from TvT.
Idk I could see this as comig from TvS just as easily
In post 2013, ceejayvinoya wrote:Lols I'm so slow. I can't believe I didn't get that.

If my little theory is right, Pintu can't be scum.

@oxy may we see how your PoE goes?

*that's if you don't count his position on my wagon. I don't personally because he opportunistically jumped on me and I was heavily discussed at the time. But even then, 6 times is hardly anything to be proud of.


And even then its never very extensive. Every other time he has either been directly asked for reads or been purposely ambiguous about them (stuff like saying he's going to reconsider something but he doesn't update us on the conclusion of reconsidering). He's also been asked to give reads A LOT because he gives them himself so infrequently. So most of his content is either because he's been directly asked to produce it or simply commenting on whatever is happening.

I also feel like he's consistently been very opportunistic. On some occasions more so than others. His first one was quite small and not very noticeable at the time. This was when, upon hearing about the liability of N_M, he suddenly become very fond of having him policy lynched. He was encouraging others to join his position. But as soon as he saw that few people were interested he immediately backed off. That doesn't feel natural. IMO, a townie in his position would have first questioned why people weren't sheeping the idea before deciding to back down. What he did feels like too much of a snap. At worst this is opportunistic scum but at best it's another attempt to look busy early in the game.

Then his first vote of the game against me seems like it was done out of obligation. He had described me as scummy in the previous post and felt pressure to vote me over it - probably because he was the only person he had named as being scummy thus far in the game and there's that whole site meta of having your vote on your 'strongest scum read'. I'd argue that town doesn't really feel this pressure as much as scum do.

It didn't at the time, but now even his unvote of me pings me a little. It feels less like he thinks my posts were genuine and more hopping off an opportunity that gained no traction. But that comes from the mindset of assuming Ceejay is scum and knows my alignment which on the one hand feels like I'm being biased here but on the other makes me think that well this makes sense as him being scum. So take this point against him with a grain of salt.

My original suspicions of Ceejay grew roughly when his activity seemed to drop off. This is not because of his activity, it's because I found I was having to ISO him to remind myself of what stances he had only to find he didn't have many. By comparison, he looked much scummier compared to many other people who had earned a town read by that point. Since considering him as scum via PoE, I've been more critical of him and been able to see his lack of reads and opportunism more clearly. Just in time to have his next 3 incredibly opportunistically scummy votes ping me.

First of all, he votes for Icon despite
quite literally
never mentioning him before under the excuse he is just going to be sheeping MOMOMEN. Prior to this, he had never given a read on momomen and given a throwaway town lean to fumuki in post . I'd argue that 700 posts and 1 replacement later this read might need a little updating to be genuine. So why has Ceejay either been holding out on telling us that he strongly town reads momomen enough to sheep his every move OR why is he so willing to sheep someone he barely has a read on? To me, the answer is simply that he doesn't actually care about the reads he just wants to be on the wagon. Might I remind you, a wagon he has given no reason to be on.

Next is his vote on me again. Votes rapidly changed to me and he decided to jump on that bandwagon despite his most recent read of me claiming he thought I was town. Though admittedly that post was over 600 posts ago. But personally, that just puts us in a situation where he's either just opportunistically jumped on a town read or failed to give read development. Either way, it's scummy. He did push me a little at this time which I find contradictory to the claim that he was only on me because he was sheeping, but I explained that point in point 6 of post . After this, once the heat on me was dying down, he switched back to Icon - still without ever having a read on him.

Now we get to day 2 and Ceejay immediately votes for MOMOMEN.
The very person that he was blindly sheeping for no good reason.
He clearly uses MOMOMEN as a scapegoat for blame of the misslynch whilst also tying him to the night kill. Despite there not being any clear indication of it, I also think this was 'opportunistic'. This is because I think it was clear by Ceejay's tone that he was expecting other people to suspect MOMOMEN for having 2 of his scum reads flip town. This is scummy in 2 ways as it opportunistically starts a wagon on MOMOMEN in anticipation of one but, more importantly, it also suggests ceejay knew what the night kill was going to be and had a plan for the start of the day.

From then on, he's posted very little. But here's a few quotes of his that gave me additional scum pings:
Spoiler: Quotes in a spoiler because this wall is ugly enough
In post 1550, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1547, Sando wrote:
In post 1540, Quick wrote:
In post 1537, Not_Mafia wrote:Wrong player bruv
No, You're on the wrong player.
Quick, cmon man, you're one of the more conf-town players in this game, let's actually make use of it and push people who are valid scumtargets please.

CJ - I personally don't think a Mom led scum kills the duckling, thoughts?
Yeah I'm dum. Thanks for pointing it out. UNVOTE:
Personally I'd argue that MOMO not leading the kill has nothing to do with MOMO being scummy for having 2 of his scum reads flip town so why this would cause Ceejay to unvoted if he truly believed his first point I don't know.
In post 1725, ceejayvinoya wrote:Glad to see something more progressive than back and forthing is happening.

VOTE: mutantdevle

I'll be more cooperative with everyone if this guy gets lynched today. Now lemme lurk in peace.
Whether or not I am alive has nothing to do with whether or not he is lurking and does not restrict how much effort he can put into the game. What, he's going to lurk because he can't get his own way with the lynches? Then maybe he shouldn't do so much sheeping. This just feels like an excuse for lurking.
In post 1733, ceejayvinoya wrote:
In post 1731, Oxy wrote:
In post 1729, ceejayvinoya wrote:
I'll be more cooperative with everyone if this guy gets lynched today
. Now lemme lurk in peace.
why is your cooperation based on him being the lynch, exactly?
"Because he's scum" lols.

Seriously tho. I think he's sus.
Does he actually answer the question here or is it just me that thinks he hasn't and just used this opportunity to reaffirm a scum read? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't stop cooperating with the town because there is scum in the game...
In post 1891, ceejayvinoya wrote:Aight I'll try to be here more.

Lurking isn't scum indicative, I'll be very hesitant in lynching there.

@Pintuchurrio you got a case on me?
So first of all, he doesn't become more active after this (though I'm not one to criticise for not following up with what I've said I'll do considering how overdue this case on ceejay is). Secondly, just because you think lurking isn't AI, doesn't mean you should be hesitant of lynching lurkers. Surely you should then decide whether or not you want to lynch lurkers based of your reads on what they have posted? Oh wait, I forgot that Ceejay barely has reads and the ones he does have are probably fabricated anyway.


So:
TLDR:

  • If you're one of the people who has been wanting for this case for a few days now you can damn well stop scrolling past this post, scroll back up, and read the whole damn thing. I haven't been avoiding my friends for nothing y'know :mad:
  • Most of what Ceejay posts is comments on situations rather than too much game solving.
  • Even with the occasional game solving he does, the majority of it is pointless and leads to nothing.
  • He barely gives reads on people and only mainly so when directly asked to - but even then he doesn't seem to stick to them.
  • He sheeped MOMOMEN who he barely had a read on into voting for someone he had never mentioned before and someone else who he also barely had a read on.
  • He then tried to shift the blame of Icon's mislynch onto MOMOMEN whilst also criticising how the night kill was also one of MOMO's town reads.
  • This was clearly a planned stance which suggests Ceejay knew what the night kill was going to be.
  • Since then, Ceejay has had some very shitty posts after coming under a bit of pressure and generally continues to have no meaningful presence in the game.
Obviously, you might not agree with every point I've made against Pintu. But even if that's to the extent where you don't somehow see his actions as scummy then surely you acknowledge he's not exactly the most valuable player?


So we have a player who has a high likelihood of being scum and not much to lose if we're wrong. Sounds good to me.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya
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Post Post #2201 (isolation #194) » Thu May 03, 2018 12:05 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2193, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 2187, mutantdevle wrote: Obviously, you might not agree with every point I've made against Pintu. But even if that's to the extent where you don't somehow see his actions as scummy then surely you acknowledge he's not exactly the most valuable player?


So we have a player who has a high likelihood of being scum and not much to lose if we're wrong. Sounds good to me.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya
Dude you are tunneling so hard that you even said my name instead of CJ :lol:
Your case is so good it seems that you KNOW he's scum!! Nah just kidding, that was really great, mutant.
Oh wow... :lol:

I mean, this is precisely why I'm not making a case against you because I'm SO biased against you that I'm subconsciously calling you scum...

I mean, it still kinda makes sense. You don't have to agree with my gut read on you to want to lynch ceejay ;)
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Post Post #2209 (isolation #195) » Thu May 03, 2018 8:07 pm

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2203, Quick wrote:
In post 2202, Sando wrote:
In post 2200, Alonzo wrote:so ceejay is L2 now?
Pint, Oxy, Quick, mutant for the 4? We probs need some VCs going here, but yeah I think you're right. Also N_M not on the wagon so it's basically L-1.
How do you know NM isn't Scum?
How do you know Not_Mafia wouldn’t hammer a scum partner?

He very much would.
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Post Post #2421 (isolation #196) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:07 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2375, jjh927 wrote:Hider should 100% reveal. I'm on the hider reveal train. 2 innos and a conftown vs nothing at all from not revealing
Since hiders can't produce false positives (unless they're healed which they can't be in this setup) then wouldn't that be 3 confirmed townies?
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Post Post #2422 (isolation #197) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:10 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2380, Sando wrote:leaves the scum forced to "waste" their jail on them,
I'd agree with this if we had a lot of PRs but since we only have 1 other than the hider this would not be a reason for the hider to stay hidden.
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Post Post #2423 (isolation #198) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:12 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2382, pinturicchio wrote:Mr. blue sky, please tell us why, you had to
hide
away for so long (so long!)
FML :facepalm: <-- at myself.
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Post Post #2426 (isolation #199) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:42 am

Post by mutantdevle »

In post 2386, pinturicchio wrote:Want to here something funny? Scum thought I was the vig because they jailkept me on N1 and only the worst died. Wanna know why I know I was jailkept? I hid behind the worst :lol: scum saved my life on N1 and tried to kill me on N2! But I'm a smarty pants and knew they were trying to do that; that's why I scumread everyone who was trying to push me on D2 'cause they were looking for my claim... aka mutant.

Btw, I hid behind Oxy, so start following him and me on this game, please?

VOTE: mutantdevle
I'd like to think that, as scum, I'd be more competent than to conclude that because we have a jailkeeper who used their ability that the person they targetted was definitely a vig just because there was no vig kill. You should know that I always assume the most probable conclusion, in what world is 'no vig kill MUST mean that jailkeeper jailed the vig!" the most probable conclusion?

Also, you scum read me on Day 1... not to mention that I was never pushing you; only letting it be known that I scum read you. I was never pushing you because I acknowledged I was biased against you, which I've said several times this game. And you should also know that I don't want PRs claiming when I'm scum from our scum together, I'd rather kill them without town ever knowing. Maybe it's time you should admit your own bias against me and, instead of just wanting me lynched, actually stop to consider what you're theorising.

I'm glad that I'm able to solve my read on you and that I no longer have to be paranoid about Oxy, but just because you're both confirmed town doesn't mean I'm going to follow your every read. I'm certainly going to take into consideration what each of you has to say, but the worst thing you can do right now is act as though your word is divine. That's how misslynches happen.
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