Micro 798 - Splatoon Mafia - Game Over

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:24 pm

Post by Vartsun »

VOTE: Myloninja13

I hate when people have names that refer to Mafia itself.
I will never allow you to get anywhere close to MYLO.

...and why Myloninja13? Had twelve other people been named Myloninja so far? Are you trying to trigger someone's triskaidekaphobia? I think adding numbers to any username is internet-kitschy.

Please ignore the fact that I have a hydra with Titus called Schrodinger's Mislynch. At the very least, it's not Schrodinger_Mislynch91 or something.

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Post Post #5 (isolation #1) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:31 pm

Post by Vartsun »

I also realize now that, to those who probably don't get the joke, this hydra username might be read as 'Vart Sun' which is kind of the saddest epiphany I've had in awhile.
The joke is that my main account is Varsoon and that 'tsun' is pronounced similarly to 'soon'. 'Tsun', here, also refers to the 'tsundere' archetype, which describes a character who is initially cold but harbors romantic feelings to someone else.
It's not like I wanted to be in this hydra or anything, you idiot.

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Post Post #6 (isolation #2) » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:33 pm

Post by Vartsun »

It also bugs me a good deal that this game does not crib any mechanics from Cheetory's Paint Mafia games, as I thought it'd be an excellent theme to do so in.
I guess we can't all be winners, Gamma.

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Post Post #13 (isolation #3) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 11, Ausuka wrote:ok
VOTE: Human Sequencer
Why so quick to pile onto Human Sequencer when there were a handful of other wagons you could've sheeped?

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Post Post #14 (isolation #4) » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:52 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 9, Lycanfire wrote:VOTE: Vartsun

You're a kid now, you're a squid now
Actually, this is me,
Taly
, and
Varsoon
. A squid and a kid is only an 80% accurate analogy of us.
In post 12, doomfeathers wrote:You people are all weird.

VOTE: Lycanfire
Join the
Mylo
vote and you won't think everyone is so weird? ;)

~ Taly
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Post Post #24 (isolation #5) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:01 am

Post by Vartsun »

It's been 2 days and we're still on page 1? Ewwww...
In post 15, Myloninja13 wrote:
In post 4, Vartsun wrote:VOTE: Myloninja13

I hate when people have names that refer to Mafia itself.
I will never allow you to get anywhere close to MYLO.

...and why Myloninja13? Had twelve other people been named Myloninja so far? Are you trying to trigger someone's triskaidekaphobia? I think adding numbers to any username is internet-kitschy.

Please ignore the fact that I have a hydra with Titus called Schrodinger's Mislynch. At the very least, it's not Schrodinger_Mislynch91 or something.

-V
Lol, Mylo is a nickname, ninja came out of nowhere tbh and 13 is my lucky number. I use it on almost every site I'm on.


Anyway, nice to see this has started! I haven't played Splatoon much, but the few times I have I enjoyed it!
Where's your vote?
In post 16, Human Sequencer wrote:sup skitter
i don't remember were you scum or town in that newbie game
i could look it up but i'm lazy

tfw in a game that gamma emerald is also in and can't vote gamma emerald for rvs cuz he's the mod
what tragic times we live in

VOTE: vartsun
hydra means confscum
Caught already? Damn it.

But I mean, are you going to even look at the wagon that was placed on you?
In post 17, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 14, Vartsun wrote:Join the
Mylo
vote and you won't think everyone is so weird? ;)
Why?
1)
If you're unsure of the playerlist, you could do something to gauge for a reaction.
2)
I was gauging to see how you'd feel about jumping on a wagon this early in the game.
3)
I like that you questioned me.
In post 19, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 17, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 14, Vartsun wrote:Join the
Mylo
vote and you won't think everyone is so weird? ;)
Why?
Taly is a fan of mislynching and losing. You might think they're joking. They're serious about this.
Who is this? XD I'm pretty serious about getting worthwhile discussion going.
Ausuka wrote:wagons in rvs are good things.
Thoughts on the
Lycanfire
and
Vartsun
wagon?

~ Taly
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Post Post #27 (isolation #6) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:14 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 25, Ausuka wrote:lycanfire wagon is meh, nothing AI.
your hydra might be scum though.
VOTE: Vartsun
Because...?

Also, why not try and engage with
Lycanfire
?
In post 26, skitter30 wrote:
In post 24, Vartsun wrote:But I mean, are you going to even look at the wagon that was placed on you?
I was getting some gut townpings from HS's at post but I didn't know where it stemmed from, but after you said this I realized what was prompting that vibe.

He just like .... didn't care about the page 1 L-2 wagon on him, and didn't like even react or comment to it at all. I feel like scum would have had *some* sort of reaction to that.

Like that post just feels very carefree to me.
I want to hear him respond to us.

Also,
we/Vartsun
just went to L-2, letting everyone know that.

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Post Post #36 (isolation #7) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 33, Lycanfire wrote:
In post 24, Vartsun wrote:Who is this? XD I'm pretty serious about getting worthwhile discussion going.
I feel like after correctly identifying Varsoon as a killing role day 1 of Darkest Dungeon
and basically having to run the scumteam up until he vigged me on night 3, you shouldn't have to ask who I am if Varsoon thought sorting me early was at all a consideration today.
Hey, I won that game for our team, I think? Right? Didn't I kick ass in that game?
I have terrible memory when it comes to mafia, though, so I don't actually remember you much besides that your username looks familiar.
Sorry.

Also, Ausuka thinks that we're laying down a 'range' of questions when it's been what's pretty run of the mill for actual game engagement.
I find a lot of things to be problematic with this assessment.
One, it discourages players from engaging by actively putting critique that engagement can be scumread enough to put someone at L-2.
Two, it's legitimately a garbage reason to push a scumread on someone, because the criticism of 'doing busy work' or 'asking questions that lead nowhere' is laughable. That's legitimately not a strategy I employ as either alignment. As town, talking points allow for a better range of engagement with a slot and that helps me get reads. As scum, points of discussion allow you to control the game's momentum and lend credibility to your rationale for being on mislynches. So it's just outright bad play, AS EITHER ALIGNMENT, to 'do busy work'. As Ausuka has not pointed out the way in which they see our questions ACTUALLY lead nowhere, and has failed to illustrate how that's even SCUM PLAY instead of SHIT PLAY, it's a garbage criticism.

Aaaaand you know who manufactures criticisms to push through a lynch?
Probably the same person who dodges our question about personal motivation with a sweeping 'this is good for the gamestate' answer!

DING DING DING
It's scum.

VOTE: Ausuka

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Post Post #37 (isolation #8) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:52 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 28, Ausuka wrote:
In post 27, Vartsun wrote:
In post 25, Ausuka wrote:lycanfire wagon is meh, nothing AI.
your hydra might be scum though.
VOTE: Vartsun
Because...?
gut? it feels like you're trying to look protown by asking a range of questions that lead to nothing.
I disagree with this assessment; both the reasoning and the approach behind it.

1)
My questions and responses always have a purpose behind them, it's of course, to game solve and get people's ideas and discussion put forth.
2)
I'm asking again, what are your thoughts on the votes on
Lycanfire
? You seem pretty content to put
me/Varsoon
at L-2 off gut.

I don't like that you dodged my question by saying this hydra could be scum, and throwing a vote without gauging to understand or question first.
In post 26, skitter30 wrote:
In post 24, Vartsun wrote:But I mean, are you going to even look at the wagon that was placed on you?
I was getting some gut townpings from HS's at post but I didn't know where it stemmed from, but after you said this I realized what was prompting that vibe.

He just like .... didn't care about the page 1 L-2 wagon on him, and didn't like even react or comment to it at all. I feel like scum would have had *some* sort of reaction to that.

Like that post just feels very carefree to me.
Ehhh... Too early to say. Putting him to L-2 happened quickly, even for RVS. Plus, care-level for wagon, even on oneself, is not often AI.
In post 29, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 23, skitter30 wrote:Why are you good with your vote for now?
He's doing little and hasn't really posted anything relevant to the game.
In post 24, Vartsun wrote:
In post 15, Myloninja13 wrote:Lol, Mylo is a nickname, ninja came out of nowhere tbh and 13 is my lucky number. I use it on almost every site I'm on.


Anyway, nice to see this has started! I haven't played Splatoon much, but the few times I have I enjoyed it!
Where's your vote?
An excellent question.
Talk to me about
Human Sequencer
.

Plus, how is
Ausuka
town in your eyes?
In post 31, Myloninja13 wrote:I'm liking everyone a bit so far, although particularly doomfeathers and vartsun for actually sticking out and asking questions.

VOTE: Brassherald because he's only made one post so far. If I could double vote, this would also go to Voyc.
Do you have any questions to ask?
In post 34, Human Sequencer wrote:@vartsun
i looked at it
i laughed at it
i conquered
is that how the saying goes
._.
In post 34, Human Sequencer wrote:doomfeathers' reads on mylo and me feel like they were born from genuine confusion and mystique about the game state and his desire to move the game state forward scream town to me. I don't think it's being faked (it's possible, but I doubt it)

it's north mentioning that out of the players not participating too much in the thread at that point (hs, mylo, voyc, brassherald, lycanfire) he specifically mentions hs and mylo as suspicious and says that voyc needs more attention without commenting on the other two at all
so oh the odd chance doom flips scum i think lycanfire and brass herald are a good place to look for second

is pretty questionable
I'd like for you to participate a little more in the rest of the thread voyc
Not even 40 posts and we have a dichotomy. :D You say
doomfeathers
is town, but you're looking at a reality where he flips scum, and are already placing 2 potential partners here.

...I don't get the thought process behind this.

I'm assuming you don't see a similarity in
doomfeathers'
approach to this game, to
mine/Varsoon's
approach, as what
Mylo
may see. Is your vote on
Varsoon/I
serious?

Explain how is questionable.

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Post Post #40 (isolation #9) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:44 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Ugh yeah man fuck READING in a FORUM game
am i rite?

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Post Post #41 (isolation #10) » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Have some passion in your push.
"Might jump off down the line" is the most pathetic thing I've read on mafiascum in awhile.

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Post Post #48 (isolation #11) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:00 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 46, Myloninja13 wrote:I think I'm town leaning Ausuka basically just off her calm nature in a line of suspicion. Few players do that, and much less scum players do that.
It's actually far more likely to come from scum than town.
Consider that we're two pages in and I've levied heavy criticisms on the slot.
As scum, not being able to defend there could lead to a very critical day 1 lynch that'd likely turn the game so hard in town's favor that scum would lose.

Not interested in responding point-by-point to Assucka, though. Folks were scoffing at walls already and getting mired down in it isn't going to do the gamestate any favors.
I will say that their counterpoints don't do anything to assuage my reads there, nor does their putting slots within L-2 range and claiming they're not pushing lynches.

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Post Post #50 (isolation #12) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:04 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 38, Human Sequencer wrote:i look at these wall posts and my eyes roll back into my skull
...It's a posting style of mine. I
bold
,
underline
, and
italicize
so walls aren't such a big problem. It gives me organization and emphasizes my points; while being directed to others.

Plus, many of my responses aren't very long. Having multiple smaller posts seem pointless to me that often. If it's bothering you, I'll put spoilers.
In post 38, Human Sequencer wrote:
Vartsun(taly) wrote:Not even 40 posts and we have a dichotomy. :D You say doomfeathers is town, but you're looking at a reality where he flips scum, and are already placing 2 potential partners here.
i thought i was pretty fuckin straightforward in my post
i said i think he's town
i said if he flips scum (this other thing) is worth considering
(this other thing) is the kind of thing i might forget or not pick up on again whilst rereading the thread in a reality where doom flips scum if i didn't make note of it in post form
so i made note of it in post form
Bleh, associatives may be a bit early, in my opinion.

You thoughts were very clear, and I think notes are useful. I just wasn't sure why you'd make a read but entertain an alternative possibility for partners.
In post 38, Human Sequencer wrote:vartsun vote isn't particularly serious

if i had more to say about i would have said it
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


Spoiler: Replies to Ausuka
In post 45, Ausuka wrote:
In post 37, Vartsun wrote:
In post 28, Ausuka wrote:
In post 27, Vartsun wrote:
In post 25, Ausuka wrote:lycanfire wagon is meh, nothing AI.
your hydra might be scum though.
VOTE: Vartsun
Because...?
gut? it feels like you're trying to look protown by asking a range of questions that lead to nothing.
I disagree with this assessment; both the reasoning and the approach behind it.

1)
My questions and responses always have a purpose behind them, it's of course, to game solve and get people's ideas and discussion put forth.
I mean, sure, I could see your posts coming from a townie who's really enthusiastic about activity and voting. But the fact that you were responding and talking about so much stuff, even things like HS not bothering to respond to a RVS wagon and Mylo's lack of rvs vote, which are just completely null actions, makes you think you're more likely scum, trying to gather townreads by being active and protown, than anyone else in the playerlist.
So, asking people why they're reacting the way they are, and trying to understand their perspective, is anti-town?

The whole basis of your scumlean on me, I'm getting, is that I'm actually pushing for discussion and for some reason working to gamesolve is antitown?

Can you look at the activity of this playerlist? We haven't gotten very far in 3 days.
In post 45, Ausuka wrote:
In post 37, Vartsun wrote:
2)
I'm asking again, what are your thoughts on the votes on
Lycanfire
?
I've told you once, and I'll tell you again; Lycanfire has done nothing indicative of alignment, and I don't care about the votes on him.
In post 37, Vartsun wrote: You seem pretty content to put
me/Varsoon
at L-2 off gut.
Yeah, that's true. I am very willing to do so. I'm not sure how this is relevant to anything though.
1)
Lycanfire has posted since then though, I was also asking why you wouldn't engage with him.
2)
Because I don't find much town-motivation behind your vote. You hopped on the
Varsoon/Taly
wagon while putting us to L-2, and your case so far has almost completely revolved around this hydra actually engaging with the game.

You also put
Human Sequencer
at L-2 because... I'm guessing
Lycanfire
didn't get enough traction? There's little explanation behind your reasons and thoughts other than
"this is good for town"
or
"this is being too towny"


Your attempts to respond to us seems like they're meant to discredit or shut us down, and you're not looking at other people's posting at the moment.
In post 45, Ausuka wrote:
In post 37, Vartsun wrote: I don't like that you dodged my question by saying this hydra could be scum, and throwing a vote without gauging to understand or question first.
What question did I dodge? I said that Lycanfire is null, and I said that you are now a scumlean. That is answering your questions. And I am trying to understand, I just didn't ask a ton of questions upfront, I decided to start a push instead, since it's page 2 and nothing had really happened up to that point. Besides, what could you have said if I asked questions? You couldn't have disproven the notion that your motivation was to look pro-town, nor could you have answered to gut.
So, you're making a case on your scumread solely because you think we can't adequately respond to it?

You're painting the point of me asking questions and talking to others as scum-motivated but you're deflecting the reasons why I'm asking them. I want people's thoughts on the gamestate, there's multiple things that have happened that should be brought up.

1)
Doomfeathers agreed with your reasoning, and provided reads. What do you think of him?
2)
Mylo
voted
Brassherald
and now
Brassherald
is voting
Mylo
. Do you have an opinion there?
3)
HumanSequencer's
been one of the higher posters, do you have something to say or ask him?

I just think that you're push so far has come across as narrow, and I don't get the point behind it.

Also, if
Lycanfire
is null, what's preventing you from talking to them?

brassherald wrote:VOTE: Mylo

I decided to count on my own, and I'm sure this is neither hammer nor L-1. I was phone posting earlier and the Ausuka v. Vorpal Blade hydra is still "meh" to me.
Umm.... This is not a hydra of
Vorpal
and
Blade
?
((I think I know who you're mentioning here?))


This is a hydra of
Taly and Varsoon
.

Also, is
Mylo's
vote on you the only thing that's warranting a vote on him?

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Post Post #78 (isolation #13) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:31 am

Post by Vartsun »

What bothers me most about Ausuka right now, and it may be a playstyle thing but I don't think it is, is that Ausuka is willing to drop paragraphs of justification and response to being pushed--however, when it comes to Ausuka actually making pushes or engaging with other players, Ausuka is very silent about why.

I think there's actually something of a slip from Ausuka that indicates that this play is scum play.
Ausuka's criticized our slot as 'trying to look pro-town' for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them.
Ausuka, when put on the defensive, pulls out this same self-admitted 'seemingly protown' play.
That makes it clear to me that Ausuka's posts are manufactured scum posts.
Ausuka is playing in a way that they think isn't overbearingly town, but when their motivations are called into question, they default to playing in the way they think town should play. It's inconsistent. It's scum.
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Post Post #79 (isolation #14) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:33 am

Post by Vartsun »

I'm also not a fan of the forced apathy against Vartsun v Ausuka, especially coming from Human Sequencer. Insisting on not engaging with what is one of the most content-producing pushes of the game is anti-town at best.
The whole thing reeks of scum trying to shut down an early push that could be very telling for player alignments and to move the game momentum elsewhere;
And do you see what happened right after that? Voyc gets put at L-2.

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Post Post #83 (isolation #15) » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 82, doomfeathers wrote: I got bored of reading their squabble about three wallposts ago.

VOTE: Lycanfire

This is that shit I'm talking about.

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Post Post #92 (isolation #16) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:59 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 88, Ausuka wrote: I think I've explained most/all of my scumreads at some point.
It doesn't take a genius to look at your ISO and realize every vote you've made had been done so with little justification until after the fact--this is exactly what I'm saying; when your scumreads/motivations have been called into question, you've defaulted to what you've admitted is a stance that "looks town."
In post 88, Ausuka wrote: After I made one weak post, your slot suddenly jumped on me, and acted like you had a full scumcase on me on page 2
I've explained my rationale for voting for you, and it's not 'jumping on' you or 'acting like' I had a scumcase, you fucking trash person--don't try to sweep me under the rug like that.
You're playing the victim here and acting as though my points are contrived rather than borne of legitimate concern over the alignment of your slot and the motivations behind your actions.
The more you position like this, the more I hate your guts.

VOTE: Ausuka
Please die.

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Post Post #93 (isolation #17) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:00 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 91, brassherald wrote:UNVOTE:

I like the latest post from Voyc. I can't catch up though because my idiot brother in law just fell with my niece on his shoulders so, family has to come first.
Can you explain what you like about that post?
Where was the moment you decided it was worth an unvote?

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Post Post #94 (isolation #18) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:13 am

Post by Vartsun »

Right now, I'm pressed in responding due to multiple things in life coming up, plus, line-by-lining
Ausuka
has lost its point.

I'll need to see more of
Doom and Brass
, but I feel comfortable with them at the moment. Page 3 and Page 4 makes me believe their genuinely looking to solve the game, growing townreads here.

I dislike the
Voyc
wagon though, it came shit-out-of-nowhere almost.

Soon, I'll get to posting a larger set of reads that will help formulate my thoughts in full.
In post 80, doomfeathers wrote:Hm. Your points are very convincing, but I'd have to reread the game to see whether I believe them to be true. I have a headache right now, but I'll get to it later.
Upon rereading, have you had any changes in thoughts/reads?
In post 81, Voyc wrote:Hi yeah I'm here!
I didn't have time to really post until now, but I've been reading along

I'm liking doom so far
And I agree w/ skitter that brass' willingness to read other people's games and try to meta them seems townie
In post 71, Ausuka wrote:that's actually a good point, this isn't anything like her towngame. that makes this wagon a lot better.
VOTE: Voyc
Are you going off from what brass said or did you look into them yourself?
The wording seems to indicate the latter but for some reason I'm not buying it

@skitter, is there anyone you feel is scummy? Also, what are your thoughts on Vartsun?

I want to reread through Vartsun vs Ausuka, I'll probably get to that not too later today
I don't have a read on Vartsun but Ausuka feels off, it's pretty weak gut though so I'll see
:D I like that someone's taking interest in a larger discussion point here. How do you feel about
skitter
?

I don't get why he stated
Varsoon's
'overconfidence' and then lead with nothing else about that. I feel like he's been present but elusive.
In post 88, Ausuka wrote:
In post 78, Vartsun wrote: Ausuka's criticized our slot as 'trying to look pro-town' for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them.
no, this is still wrong, and I don't know why your slot keeps pushing as if I was doing that.
In post 78, Vartsun wrote: Ausuka is playing in a way that they think isn't overbearingly town, but when their motivations are called into question, they default to playing in the way they think town should play. It's inconsistent. It's scum.
no, I'm literally just answering your points. like, I don't even get what you're trying to say here.
....If both of our heads are COMPLETELY misinterpreting your push and reads, then explain it to us like we're dumb. I genuinely don't get your scumread and pushes anymore.

I also don't understand the Voyc vote here:
In post 65, Ausuka wrote:I would not be interested in starting a Voyc wagon. This is still early-game, and not having contributed much so far definitely doesn't make her scum. If she's still barely posted anything towards the end of the day, she'd be a better wagon, but right now it's just meh to me.
In post 71, Ausuka wrote:that's actually a good point, this isn't anything like her towngame. that makes this wagon a lot better.
VOTE: Voyc
You went from saying her inactivity (even though its only been 2-3) is NAI; but
literally
15 minutes later, you vote her based on meta without any reasoning.

The fact that you're revoting this slot , while ignoring your light scumread on
Mylo
((which I'd like to hear about, by the way))
but states how wagoning is very effective for town, does not add up to me.

I just feel that your voting is opportunistic, and flows directly with what the majority wants at a given time.

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Post Post #96 (isolation #19) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 95, Human Sequencer wrote:the end of is overly hateful and aggressive
I'll butcher you, too.
This is Mafia. I'm laying out a rope and telling a player that they should be lynched.
If Ausuka genuinely thinks I'm making threats against them as a person, I apologize, that's not the intent.
However, I fully intend to display my conviction with every stride I take and your niceguy arbiter act isn't going to earn you any town points here, kiddo.

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Post Post #100 (isolation #20) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:36 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Oho, who's being hateful and aggressive, breeding toxicity, making people want to participate less and interact with someone less now, hmmmm?

So quick to about face when you're called out for your rubbish.
Mollie played the same 'boohoo Varsoon is picking on me schtick, play nice' schtick just weeks ago in viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75175
And guess what?
They were scum and that strategy was so effective that even when Titus and Mollie were gladiated, Mollie's team went on to pull the W.
REALLY MAKES YOU THINK

Now please, keep suffocating the actual casing being done here by insisting it's a player versus player issue when it is not. Conflating rhetorical conviction as an assault on a player is a tactic that I've seen scum use time and time again and the worst thing about it is that I will still recognize that it's not alignment indicative, but, yes, it does frustrate me to have my legitimate points against a player be hand-waved as 'toxic play' instead of actual game engagement.

This is the last time I'll acknowledge it or ask nicely; Please stop.
If I really have offended Ausuka, they can let me know, and I'll tone down the crass nature of my push and find other words that convey the passion I feel in being correct about and not backing down from my assessment of their PLAY in this GAME.

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Post Post #102 (isolation #21) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:43 pm

Post by Vartsun »

And before you call my frustration feigned or scummy, you can see how I reacted in a much more frustrated and violent way in Death's Diner, to the point where I should have been forced out the game : viewtopic.php?f=56&t=30226
The only thing that saved me there was that I caught a 1 week ban--don't recall what for, though it's very likely for the sort of behavior that I put forth there.
Basically, censoring my points and conflating them to a player v player attack is something that triggers me very heavily and I'd prefer if you would not do that.

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Post Post #105 (isolation #22) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:50 pm

Post by Vartsun »

When did confidence become a scumread thing?
Seriously, are you all so spineless in your approach that when someone's sure of something early on, you're going to project and scumread it?

@Skitter: Awkward, because I feel that Ausuka is misrepping our interrogative playstyle as 'busywork'. THAT'S what I was being critical of.
HS has consistently called my back and forth with Ausuka 'wall posts' and things that make their eyes roll back and all of that. They've perpetuated the awful idea that anything more than shorthand on A FORUM GAME should be snoozed at and glazed over.

I'm sorry for posting that. I was very frustrated with Ausuka's continued misrepresentation of our slot's work and only used that phrase to construe how I felt about their posts. Again, I'll lay off with stuff like that.

P-EDIT: @Ausuka: My apologies then.
I'm still going to be pushing you regardless, and if you take my push personally, quit mafia.

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Post Post #106 (isolation #23) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:52 pm

Post by Vartsun »

><
Sorry,
Again
Too harsh of me.
What I mean to write is that if you still take my push personally, I'm sorry for that and I think you'll have a difficult time on the site if you take players pushing scum cases on you personally.

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Post Post #108 (isolation #24) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:55 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Okay.
So.
Now let's step beyond that and focus on the game.
I think I might have to shift gears here.
Do you understand where I'm coming from, Ausuka?
What about my posts don't you understand?

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Post Post #109 (isolation #25) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:55 pm

Post by Vartsun »

With my push/casing, I mean.

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Post Post #114 (isolation #26) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:24 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Alright, so, can we sort that into places where we've got a fundamentally different understanding of what's happening?
If I try to break it down...
1. You explained what you thought scum playing as though they were town looked like and accused us of playing that way--because we're actually town, it feels like you're just trying to drown out our engagement.
2. My reasons for pushing you have developed from there, it's just that I feel that the point is still relevant.
3. I don't see your votes as being very explained until they've been given more scrutiny--like I said before, you following up with more justification reads as scummy to me because of how you said that our tone looked fake, but I saw a lot of the same tone in you explaining your reads.
4. I'm merely putting pressure on your slot. It's very important to have conviction when pushing someone. If I was half-assed about it, you could ignore my push altogether and it'd be less effective in generating content--and I need that content to actually further sort your slot and help other players further sort your slot.
5. You criticized us over 'seeming like we were faking town', which I've read as criticism over our engagement and rationale. I'm trying to be transparent so that more people can easily sort us and work with us so that we can figure out who scum are. I don't like it when I push a case and people don't know why I'm even pushing a person.

P-EDIT:
@HS: I refuse to engage with any more posts regarding player versus player toxicity. Please stop and focus on the game at hand.

@Skitter: Ah, I was reading that the rationale + questions = busywork, not just questions = busywork.
If I don't ask questions, though, how am I ever going to learn things?
Should I try to be more transparent with what conclusions people's answers lead me to, or why I'm asking the questions that I am?
I'm already so verbose that some people aren't reading my posts as-is.

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Post Post #115 (isolation #27) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:26 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 38, Human Sequencer wrote:i look at these wall posts and my eyes roll back into my skull
In post 63, Human Sequencer wrote:
In post 52, doomfeathers wrote:Current assessment of gamestate: Far too much fight and too little think.
yeah this

vartsun vs. ausuka makes me snooze

voyc

This is what I was talking about, for the record.

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Post Post #117 (isolation #28) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:37 pm

Post by Vartsun »

I was levying the criticisms in post 100 against you, not Ausuka.
And, for what it's worth, I actually do think that you could be scumpartners, with the votes happening between you in both RVS and now being a distancing gambit.

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Post Post #119 (isolation #29) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:39 pm

Post by Vartsun »

@HS: I actually was holding that notion in my back pocket because I hate coming up with associative and teams when there's not any mod-confirmed info to work with (flips, etc), but I think it's awkward that you'd bring it up like that.



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Post Post #121 (isolation #30) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:40 pm

Post by Vartsun »

@Ausuka: I wish you could explain it better.
Who do you think is scum, at this point, and why?
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Post Post #123 (isolation #31) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:42 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 120, Human Sequencer wrote:you weren't actually attacking me though
so it's still irrelevant
:omegathink:
I'm saying that conflating a player's push with an out-of-game issue is problematic for lots of reasons, even moreso as a scum gambit.

I'd prefer if we could not talk about it, please, at least until post.
It's something that I have a lot of difficultly being calm about.

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Post Post #124 (isolation #32) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:48 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 122, Human Sequencer wrote:i bought it up cuz i was curious to see how the fuck you'd justify such a read

but your response wasn't too bad i don't think
It pinged me kind of hard when Ausuka was quick to put you at L-2 but then when I gave their wagon a lot of pressure, they've admitted that going hard on someone early-game is not something they feel is normal (not exact words, I can't recall how they phrased it but they didn't like it). I guess that my rhetorical conviction was higher than their mechanical vote conviction in post 11, though.

Similarly, you've swept back to vote Ausuka but I'm actually not entirely sure of your reasons for doing so. It also felt weird that you'd ask them to go with you on a Voyc wagon, but then you went back and voted them when Voyc didn't really produce much content despite the vote pressure. I'm not entirely sure what it is about Voyc's post that had you make the moves you did.
Like, it's hard for me to follow your justification of going from being voted by Ausuka --> Asking Ausuka to vote Voyc with you --> Voting Ausuka.
I don't get it, and if you could help me understand, that'd help a lot.

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Post Post #126 (isolation #33) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:01 pm

Post by Vartsun »

@Ausuka: If you're putting people at L-2, do you not intend to see them lynched? There's a difference between building an RVS wagon that'll generate content and just piling on votes, like what you were doing early on. I've seen scum push through RVS wagons and I've seen scum control game rhetoric plenty of times--I've done it a lot as scum, myself. On the point of fabricating a case versus having a real one, it feels like I could say the same thing about you, so I don't really know where that gets us. That's why I'm trying to understand more of where you're coming from.

I don't think Myloninja is scum for trying to bring attention to slots that have posted less. If anything, we should be trying to get those lurker slots more into the game. I'm not entirely certain that Myloninja actually is saying they have a scumread on those players, but instead seems to just be trying to put pressure in those places.

Ausuka, how many games of mafia have you played before this one?

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Post Post #128 (isolation #34) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:18 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Embarrassingly, the first game that comes to mind is Diamond Shreddies 2, where I was complicit in it: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=60632

I don't see where Myloninja is calling for OTHER people vote lurker slots, just that he votes brass for having 1 post so far.
I actually don't think there's much in Mylo's ISO that lets me read them either way. I'd still lean it more town than scum because their observations seem less like positioning and more like explaining developing reads, but it's reaaaal scarce in that ISO.

I've been playing (mostly) on this site for the last five years, fairly consistently. I am more used to the modding side of games, where the medium-to-large setups that I mod go to 100 pages, but I've played and run games where day phase has been very short. I was curious of your experience, because I'm not sure if you're coming from an informed place with lots of experience or just postulating based on what you believe to be the case, especially when it comes to things that town or scum 'would' do.

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Post Post #129 (isolation #35) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Kind of funny aside: I even mention, in Diamond Shreddies 2, that I was pushing for a fast lynch solely to use it as a point of meta in other games. Cute.

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Post Post #131 (isolation #36) » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:39 pm

Post by Vartsun »

UNVOTE: for now.
I need to talk to my other head about things before moving forward.
I'm understanding more of where you stand on things--I still don't agree with it or like it, but I'm not seeing as much of the scum motivation that I saw before.

And, yeah, I was specifically asking for Boon to hammer a quick wagon cus I knew he would in that game.

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Post Post #138 (isolation #37) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:53 am

Post by Vartsun »

I did mean in the context of this game--slots are lynched and they die. Scum kill slots and they die. That sort of thing. When I push a player for lynch, I am pushing them to the death. Again, would really rather discuss that sort of stuff in post. Once again, I apologize.

I'll agree that I'm not a fan of HS' play at all, though my other head has been saying they sometimes do get townvibes from the slot, and I don't want to move ahead with a push there unless I know both of us are on board.
Your points are cogent, though--I was saying some similar stuff in regards to HS' post 63, and I'm really waiting for HS to explain/justify their play so far this game.

As for that list of players who played in games of mine, it took over an hour to put together, and I had to go hunting down who was in what hydras and all that. Even then, I'm sure it's not entirely accurate, either. I do recall your name. When I was talking to Taly about people I recognized on this playerlist and if I had meta points to bring to the table, my contributions were basically;
I think I've played with Human Sequencer and Lycanfire?
But I don't recall anything about them
And brass replaced out of my game so
I'm not really familiar, no

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Post Post #139 (isolation #38) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:27 am

Post by Vartsun »

I've talked to
Varsoon
about his intensity and word usage. There is no personal meaning behind what he's stated, although, I understand how some people feel about them.

*Message To Playerlist*
This is Hydra. There's 2 people in this slot. Hi, I'm Taly.
If you want to ask something to help understand 2 people at once, then I'm here as well.

If you townread or scumread one of us, you're townreading/scumreading the other.

Don't focus on one head. People forget this.


~

brassherald wrote:VOTE: mylo

This is the third vote, it takes 5 to lynch so that means L-2
Remind me why
Mylo's
the best lynch to you?

Mylo
has been on/off absent for about 2-3 days, so I don't see what people expect from voting them, or an elaborate reason to scumread them.

I can see your point on ; but with
Mylo's
general low activity, it does not seem AI to me, and it doesn't seem like a too-weird read given it was only on Page 2.

Spoiler: Me Talking About Ausuka, Brassherald, and Doomfeathers
~


The only people I'm somewhat familiar with is
Ausuka, Brassherald, and Doomfeathers
; but I'm not familiar enough to even consider meta-reading them.

That said; I don't think
me/Varaoon
tunneling
Ausuka
does anything productive, and I'm going to reread her latest responses to
Varsoon
when I do a full playerlist read in about 1-2 days. I have less conviction in my scumread her.

I still don't fully understand her scumread though :/ I feel like
Ausuka's
been focusing on my other head's interactions, but I'm trying to understand her view of the game.

Doomfeathers;
where have you been for the past 2 days? What do you think about
Lycanfire
after he's posted more content?

Also, how are you reading
Brass
and
Ausuka
at the moment?

My gut on
Doomfeathers
is that he's town. He's not leaving small details out when he's responding to people, and he's suspecting people but also placing townreads with decent reasoning based on how much content is currently within the game.

~


Spoiler: Why I think Skitter is Town
Skitter
is towny to me. I'll elaborate in depth in my readslist but here's my thinking:
1)
Didn't buy into the
Mylo
vote reasoning, and sees the possibility of coming from town. This tells me that Skitter's not letting the majority influence her underlying thoughts, and is looking at other potential ideas.

2)
All of her posts have either included a question, assessment, or read. Very open with her thoughts.

3)
Did not ignore or handwave dismiss
Vartsun V Ausuka
; took a chance to get to the bottom of interactions and gamesolve.
skitter30 wrote:And tbh your questions at the very beginning did same kinda inane and/or 'making a mountain out of a molehill'-y. Thing is that it was RVS and like that's kinda how you leave RVS imo, by finding something interesting to talk about, so I didn't have a problem with that.
I tend to intentionally bait reactions in RVS, personally.

That's how you get out of it; and
Ausuka's
original push on me was a good means to start discussion.

~


Spoiler: Ewww.
In post 137, Lycanfire wrote:Vartsun is either a VI or scum. The hard dodge from the Varsoon head is frankly disingenuous to me. Varsoon is meticulous in modding games, yet recently (<2 months) put me on a list of people that played his games to completion. Here's a thing to note: I've never played in any of his games or to completion. I played Steven Universe 2 as part of a hydra account, got fed up with the playerlist and flaked out day 2. Obviously I was on his mind a year after this game when he made this list for whatever reason. I can't say I had a standout performance in that game enough to be remembered. I had pretty much no worthwhile impact beyond saying some townie things that kept my hydra partner from being turbolynched as fast as they could have been.
I disapprove of this assessment of
Me/Varsoon
.

1)
Most of your read is based on Varsoon, yet I've also posted, and I've even brought up discussion revolving around you, and an explanation of my thoughts in this game. It's Page 1 and Page 2, mostly.

2)
The fact that you say we're either scum or a Village Idiot ((I think that's what VI means?)) sounds like a flippant discredit. It's the equivalent of saying:

"This guy is at worst, our objective to go against, and at best, useless!"
>>>>
Please tell me I'm wrong here.

Is this really the conclusion you come to after a
Varsoon/Ausuka
indepth talk, while not questioning or talking to the
Taly
head?

3)
Literally most of this paragraph is discussing that you were in a game
Varsoon
modded in.

Is this even a read?


Spoiler: Are You Alive, HS?
~


Q's For Human Sequencer

1)
Where are your thoughts on Ausuka now? ...Also what were your original thoughts on Ausuka? I didn't see a lot of your individual opinion on her being scum in the first place.

2)
General readslist would be helpful, thanks.


Spoilers help me organize, and are less of a pain for others to read.

~ Taly
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Post Post #151 (isolation #39) » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:09 pm

Post by Vartsun »

I've just pan-fried Totinos pizza rolls and I think this is a new low.

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Post Post #160 (isolation #40) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:04 am

Post by Vartsun »

VOTE: brassherald

Are you really voting for me because I'm frustrated that players wouldn't read my posts?
And my criticism isn't "Waah people won't read my walls," it's much more that I felt there was a consistent HS attitude that my posts weren't worth reading, which perpetuates a really anti-town agenda of not reading/not engaging.

So, try again?

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Post Post #162 (isolation #41) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:10 am

Post by Vartsun »

...I fail to see how post 79 is directed at 'everyone' and not just Human Sequencer, y'know, the person I specifically was directing that post towards.

It's not an OMGUS vote, stop calling any time someone crossvotes you an OMGUS. That's incredibly dismissive of the criticism that I'm levying here.
Can you show me where you see my slot 'minimizing reasoning' for everyone's votes 'if they were not for Ausuka'?
That, in itself, strikes me as an incredibly false narrative--because I've also been fairly critical of Human Sequencer's vote on Ausuka as well, questioning it multiple times.

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Post Post #163 (isolation #42) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:10 am

Post by Vartsun »

Like, if you're going to literally make up things, can you please quote some posts out of context to confuse people who aren't reading the game?

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Post Post #164 (isolation #43) » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:31 am

Post by Vartsun »

Actually, more on the 'minimizing reasoning on non-Ausuka votes' fiction; I literally had a conversation with Ausuka (around post 126) about whether or not Mylo's vote on you (brass) was legitimate, with me arguing for its legitimacy.
I just don't understand at all where you're swinging from here, Brass.

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Post Post #169 (isolation #44) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:47 am

Post by Vartsun »

Oh, I see; criticism of play = shading. Yeah. Players shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. Right.
Though I should probably let Taly engage with that, since your beef seems to mostly be with Taly's posts.

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Post Post #171 (isolation #45) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Hey man, fuck you too.

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Post Post #172 (isolation #46) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:11 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Also, you've demonstrated an absolute lack of reading comprehension--no one started the game with a joke; I was explaining that I expected people to misread my hydra's username.
Maybe don't be so petulant before you've even been officially replaced in.

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Post Post #174 (isolation #47) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Words like OMGUS and LAMIST should never ever be used by town.

In post 167, brassherald wrote:Vartsun things:
reads like shading Ausuka's vote on the hydra, I guess maybe this may not count since it was a vote on them, but still. Pretty muich everything before that was shading the votes on HS and an RVS push, but, like, it's RVS in a micro, that's a pretty shitty point to argue about.
You use the word shading a lot but you're not really elaborating or asking the motivation behind it. Furthermore, every question or thing I've stated so far was to help my perception within the game, and to keep discussion going.
In post 167, brassherald wrote: shades Mylo himself for a vote on me.
...Asking a question is shading? What argument is this?
In post 167, brassherald wrote: tries to frame my post which had reasoning right before it as an OMGUS vote.
Um... I never use the word OMGUS - it is a horrid buzzword that doesn't catch scum or accurately detail what someone is thinking and it serves nothing but to minimize someone's thoughts; do not misrep my intentions.

Literally, I was telling you that this hydra was
Taly/Varsoon
, and asking if there's more reasons to a
Mylo
vote than what I originally believed.
In post 167, brassherald wrote: the end shades a vote by Ausuka, who they now read as town, by the way, for voting Voyc.
>_> I'm still not sure of my townread on
Ausuka
, I feel like it's more possible than what I thought early-game, and
Varsoon
may have a slightly different read here.

But my intentions in that post were pretty clear in giving an observation and trying to understand why someone voted the way they did.
In post 167, brassherald wrote: says "When did confidence become a scumread thing?" Reads like throwing shade to me.
lol Because overconfidence early-game tends to create dichotomies and lynch town without much in-game reasoning?
In post 167, brassherald wrote: was written down by me, but I think that I misunderstood that post originally. Just sharing a bit that's not totally relevant.
What's the point of this?

is actually less of a shade throw than I thought, but repeating myself pings me, so that's a memory thing more than an actual read reason.

Doom: Doom is town to me because the way he reads is both similar to the town tone I have seen in the past, and his reads are well thought out and don't seem faked. It reads like he's trying to solve a puzzle. He's towny AF.[/quote]

You're disregarding a whole post of me elaborating on my thoughts and engaging in several topics to:
"this isn't as shady as I thought"
>>> What are you gaining by saying this? There's little stated reasoning here that makes me inclined to believe you're being truthful with your push.

I think
Doomfeathers
is town, it's what I'd think of him to be suspicious and look deeper into people's motives, but I didn't understand the vote on this hydra without much stated reasoning.

None of my reads are very solidified at the moment.
Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:Hi. I should be replacing HS, but I will keep it short until Gamma announces it officially.

FTR, I started reading the first page and I got sick to the stomach. You guys are awful. Who the fuck starts the game with a joke then spends 3 goddamn posts explaining it? Who cares? And who asks for an explanation on a RVS vote on page one? And through skimming the rest of the thread I see lots of OMGUS voting too. It's as if many are being deliberately bad or want to look scummy, but Vartsun steals the oscars and the grammys for it by a large margin.

I'll do a proper reread and decide whether I want to play or just call you all names and replace out.
Calling us names and replacing out does nothing but add to the tension in the game already; I'd like to hear your thoughts on the game at the moment.

~~~~


Voyc and Skitter
seem like town to me at the moment, and I'm reserving major thoughts about the
Human Sequencer
slot until
Judge
or someone officially comes into the game.

~ Taly
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Post Post #175 (isolation #48) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:17 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Be nice
Varsoon
. D:

Image

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Post Post #177 (isolation #49) » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:01 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Can't speak for Taly, but I think you're more likely town than scum solely based on the way votes and wagons have gone so far today.

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Post Post #194 (isolation #50) » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:28 am

Post by Vartsun »

I think any tension in this thread can easily be mitigated with game talk and impersonal explanations of thoughts.

Plus, I feel like my head was drowned out a lot in how people are perceiving the "first 7 pages". I'm here, guys.
In post 176, Voyc wrote:@brassherald, doom, could I ask why you're townreading/townleaning the HS slot?
In post 154, brassherald wrote:Oh, I forgot to say 137 while being a wall post and having portions I disagree with is okay enough in itself to keep lycan out of my four person lynch pool for the time being.
What'd you disagree with?
In post 174, Vartsun wrote:Voyc and Skitter seem like town to me at the moment
Why do you think I'm town?
1)
I didn't like the wagon on you, specifically you being pushed to L-2 without very strong reasons to scumread you,
(( and they were more like votes to be votes and wagon without much questioning to come with it))


2)
You're asking a lot of questions while engaging with a good portion of the playerlist. You put up your stances while not ignoring 1v1s or people's thoughts behind a case.

Can you elaborate on your
Skitter
read?
In post 179, skitter30 wrote: @Taly: why town on voyc?
@What I Stated Above


How do you feel about the gamestate at the moment?
In post 185, brassherald wrote:You know what, no. Screw this. We're 8 pages in, sorry to Gamma to do this, but even if the atmosphere is better later on the beginning of this game was horrible full of too many personal attacks, and I'm not going to get over that. I can't play to my wincon if I won't be able to get over the toxic atmosphere of the first 7 pages. It takes a bigger man than I to get over this.

doomfeathers is still cool.

UNVOTE:

@mod, replace me too. Sorry
Eckgh... I can see how this can be genuine; but with the other replace-outs, I feel like this is more of an excuse.

I'm still withdrawing further judgment until a replacement comes in.

~ Taly
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Post Post #208 (isolation #51) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by Vartsun »

@Doom: I don't see scum-Voyc put at L-2 with almost no resistance and Voyc just kind of shrugging it off as likely as it is that scum threw momentum behind it and then backed off. Doesn't ensure Voyc as town or anything, but I also don't really see much scum agenda behind Voyc's votes (or lack thereof) either. Voyc just doesn't seem to be exerting a lot of influence over the game, imo, and I tend to townread that more than scumread it.

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Post Post #209 (isolation #52) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Do we have a replacement for Brassherald yet?

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Post Post #216 (isolation #53) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:35 pm

Post by Vartsun »

@Dredd : Good luck getting worthwhile reads then, when you've decided that players voting doesn't matter. If anything, putting someone at L-2 in a 9P game should catch an even heavier amount of questioning because our margin of error is much smaller than it would be in a larger game--but hey, how many 9P and smaller games have you played, Dredd?

@Doom : In my experience, scum play more towards survival, especially in high stake situations with less players. It might be NAI if Voyc has the same sort of thoughts that Dredd does on what L-2 even means in a 9P game, though.

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Post Post #217 (isolation #54) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:36 pm

Post by Vartsun »

The whole 'IT WAS ONLY THREE VOTES' point doesn't work.
In 3P, it only takes TWO VOTES to END THE GAME ENTIRELY, but you don't see any chuckleheads going around like, "lol it was only 2 votes man why you reading so much into it"

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Post Post #218 (isolation #55) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:39 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Let's extrapolate this to an 18p setup with 10 to lynch.
This is as if a wagon had 6 or 7 people voting it within two pages space, then it diminished.
Obviously you'd read into that, some way, right?

Right?

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Post Post #233 (isolation #56) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:30 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 227, doomfeathers wrote:Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?
Lynching the most active and engaged town player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.

@Dredd : Can you go back and check who was pushing Ausuka the hardest for the most time so far? Hoh boy.
And don't move the goalposts with phrases like:
In post 225, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:That's a gross misrep if I've ever seen one. I didn't say votes don't matter. I said we can't decide someone's alignment from a D1 wagon that is composed of 3 votes when we haven't had one flip yet.
When your original post was literally...
In post 213, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:To reiterate: putting anyone @L-2 (3 votes) is totally NAI to me. They could be town or scum, and the voters can be of either alignments too.
Oh hey looks like there's no mention of flips mattering in your original post, just that 3 votes/L-2 is NAI to you.
It's not a 'misrep' at all, you literally didn't write what you intended to convey.
So you can keep your whole overblown response in your pants, chucklehead.


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Post Post #234 (isolation #57) » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 232, Ausuka wrote:rn I'm thinking nero is town. I still like the myloninja wagon very much.
Can you elaborate a little on each?
I'm curious how you came to these conclusions.


Also

@MOD: I'm going to be moving to a new apt over the course of this weekend and won't have internet.
So the Varsoon head of this Hydra will be V/LA until I've got regular internet again.


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Post Post #238 (isolation #58) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:59 am

Post by Vartsun »

@Dredd: That sure is a lot of words for admitting you're literally wrong and got caught being wrong, but whatever.

@Ausuka: In what ways is the scumhunting (or lack of it) that you see from those slots indicative of a town mentality?

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Post Post #239 (isolation #59) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:54 am

Post by Vartsun »

The
Taly
head is alive.

I'll post later tonight when my mind has become more at ease with my thoughts in this game.

I work best when given a line of questions, just a FYI to the playerlist.

~ Taly
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Post Post #241 (isolation #60) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 206, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 94, Vartsun wrote:I dislike the Voyc wagon though, it came shit-out-of-nowhere almost.
I kinda dislike this. I mean it's not like Taly has to agree with the wagon but Brass ISO'd her and said the meta looks different. Like, there's a HUGE difference between "I dislike it b/c I disagree with the reasoning" and "I dislike it b/c it popped up." So it feels a bit like scum that knows Voyc is town.

vote:Varsun
I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.

, is a vote
Ausuka
made that I actually brought up to her. There really was not a lot of reasoning as to why
Voyc's
game is so different or like scum-them; and I didn't like the
doomfeathers
vote because in ,
doomfeathers
said that's not his
"favorite lynch"
, implying that he believes there's a better focus, but he's going along with what he thinks is more likely to get a result... pushing someone to L-2 while stating it's for the purpose of town.

This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,
Voyc
is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.

I've reread this thread twice and I've forgotten how and why half of the wagons in this game have even happened. :igmeou:

Spoiler: Pattern of Votes From What I've Seen
There was the
Vartsun
wagon.
Then some
Ausuka
votes.
HS
wagon happened somewhere.
Mylo
got a wagon.
Voyc
got a wagon.
Mylo's
at a wagon again.
Brass
had some votes on him.
Vartsun's
getting more votes.


And I'm a bit put off that most people seem to like pushing someone to L-2 and then hop off the wagon.
1)
I think we have 2 scum in this game; if town is pushed to a specific point, they can easily be hammered and lynched.
2)
10 pages, and about half the playerlist has been wagoned; this gives information about interactions... but considering this is D1, there's a lot of uncertainty on people's alignments and their motives in this game.

So I feel like the vote-hopping has made the case for waffling and WIFOM much easier for scum.

I'm also frustrated that
Varsoon and I
have been reduced to little in terms of game impact.

To further elaborate on both of our thoughts since the first 3 pages so people understand where we're coming from:

Varsoon and I
were frustrated over being scumread and voted because I was asking questions, and
Varsoon
was pushing his views. We genuinely felt that the reasons we were voted, were more likely scum-motivated in some form off the pretense that we were pushing for discussion, and I feel that that was misconstrued in the first few pages. Prior to
Varsoon V Ausuka
specifically.

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Post Post #242 (isolation #61) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Vartsun wrote:The
Taly
head is alive.

I'll post later tonight when my mind has become more at ease with my thoughts in this game.

I work best when given a line of questions, just a FYI to the playerlist.

~ Taly
Scratch this.

I'm telling everyone to give me a line of questions.


I'm struggling to make a full readslist here. :igmeou:

Out of 8 people; I'm only confident in maybe... 2 or 3 reads?

4 of them are town.
4 of them are maybe-scum?


Mathematically, I'm nullreading or scumleaning on town here, so I'm going to start ISO digging individuals here.
In post 240, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 233, Vartsun wrote:
In post 227, doomfeathers wrote:Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?
Lynching the most active and engaged
town
player would be a win for scum; I'm sure there's at least two people who'd really like that.
Agreed.

Vartsun, what's your read on Myloninja? Would you be willing to join his wagon after his most recent post?
Of him townreading people and not voting? I don't know, he hasn't really provided much at all, but my gut tells me to wait here; I'm not willing to push him to L-1, at least not before him posting more.

Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's
null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his
brass
vote is still on.

Questions to Mylo

1)
Why is your vote still on
brassherald
? He was noted to be replaced out , but your latest post was Especially if you're townleaning on him.
2)
How do you feel about
Nero
and
Dredd
?
doomfeathers wrote:Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?
This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on
doomfeathers
.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving. :igmeou:

You're pushing
Mylo
, after being on multiple wagons, ((, , , )) but you're not placing many assessments each time you change your vote.

Just like you did with the
Voyc
vote, you say that you think there's a better lynch/wagon option, but your reasons for voting are to help town, because it's making a discussion point via wagon.

Where I'm failing to understand is, is that there's not a lot of clarity behind your vote changes or reads. You're voting what's convenient.

Either you're intentionally creating confusion,
or
your own thoughts are unclear,
or
you're not helping other players see your perspective.
In post 229, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote: I'd also like to note Vartsun seems to OMGUS vote more often than not.
In post 174, Vartsun wrote:Words like OMGUS and LAMIST should never ever be used by town.


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Post Post #243 (isolation #62) » Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Vartsun »

UNVOTE:

Not keeping a vote on a replacing-out slot.

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Post Post #247 (isolation #63) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:35 am

Post by Vartsun »

-_-*...
Earlier today, I typed up a response and my entire computer froze when I was almost finished. I didn't think to save it in notes. :/

So I mini rage-quitted, and I'm going to retype that response to the best of my ability, I'll post again soon.

Again, HMU with questions.

:D The good thing here is, I'm regaining motivation to play in this game.

~ Taly
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Post Post #248 (isolation #64) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:51 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Spoiler: My Response To Nero
In post 244, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 241, Vartsun wrote:I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.
ok but that really doesn't line up with your words.
I think they do. :igmeou: I'm not going to push a quickwagon to L-1 because someone initially voted for a meta read they didn't explain. Furthermore, the wagon on
Ausuka
was what me and my other head were more focused on because of the
Vartsun V Ausuka
.

I feel like people are finding ways to deflect from a cohesive gameview with their pushes.

Also, why would it be odd to point out that a wagon happened quickly and out-of-nowhere? Where's the scum-motivation in pointing out pushes that someone thinks aren't well-reasoned, or trying to get a better understanding of?

Nobody's really explained that to me, or this:
Ausuka, Brassherald, and Doomfeathers
voted for
Voyc
out of different viewpoints it seemed.
Brass
for meta,
Ausuka
in agreeing with
Brass
- even though that contradicts her , and
doomfeathers
because... he didn't want to pursue a better person of suspect in his eyes?


Spoiler: My Response To Doomfeathers
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 241, Vartsun wrote:This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,
Voyc
is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.
It was a pressure wagon, at least from what I saw. Problem?
That's not what I gathered from and in terms of a whole wagon.

If you guys were pressure-wagoning her, why were you and
Brass
placing her in your lynchpool?
brassherald wrote:I did a Voyc search of meta. There's not much, and I do not see a single Scum game from her, but the activity so far does not fit her town meta. I'll throw her into my very early lynch pool.
doomfeathers wrote:Voyc's still not my favorite lynch target, but I'll compromise and make a wagon.

VOTE: Voyc
That's L2.
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
1)
I think we have 2 scum in this game; if town is pushed to a specific point, they can easily be hammered and lynched.
We can only hope so. That would make this game much easier if it happened anytime before LYLO.
2)
10 pages, and about half the playerlist has been wagoned; this gives information about interactions... but considering this is D1, there's a lot of uncertainty on people's alignments and their motives in this game.

So I feel like the vote-hopping has made the case for waffling and WIFOM much easier for scum.
WIFOM's not hard to see past. When TMI becomes a factor, just look elsewhere. This is Mafia; a big-picture perspective is unnecessary. More information allows people to have more choices for places to investigate; it's going to be very hard to convince me that it's a bad thing.
I'm not saying more information is bad. But it doesn't make sense to have your attention jump constantly.

Also, I'd love to see your magical solution of seeing through WIFOM. :roll: If there's any WIFOM you've already detected, maybe you should tell me.
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
I'm also frustrated that
Varsoon and I
have been reduced to little in terms of game impact.
Not your (Taly's) fault.
This quote embodies most of my problems with the playerlist right now.


1)
You seem completely satisfied that someone, who I don't understand how you're reading anymore, has no believed impact on the game. You're both apathetic to us being lynched, and not receptive to our statements.

2)
And yes, I'm saying us as in
Varsoon/I
BECAUSE WE'RE A HYDRA
. We function more closely as one person than two. While you're discrediting
Varsoon
with this statement, you're ignoring any weight I've staked in this game. This is blatantly anti-town.

3)
What makes this worse is, this is literally what I've gathered in half of the playerlist's view toward us is. Which does not serve anything but to create dichotomies and unfairly undermine thoughts.
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 242, Vartsun wrote:
Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's
null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his
brass
vote is still on.
No, I meant his most recent post. Do you think his reads are genuine?
I think his reads are not elaborated on that much and not very effective, but I haven't seen enough to believe it's faked.
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
Taly wrote:
doomfeathers wrote:Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?
This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on
doomfeathers
.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving. :igmeou:
That's my salt at everybody leaving the game instead of policy-lynching your slot (no offense to you personally).
I don't get the purpose of a policy lynch in general, and I don't know how autolynching us without taking an in depth look at our motives and reasons in this game are sensible.

Want to know what happens when/if Varsoon/I gets PL'ed? We're going to flip town. Another townie's dying N1, and literally nobody's going to find much resolution in their reads at 7p left, presumably a 5-2 setting.


Not good for the town.
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
You're pushing
Mylo
, after being on multiple wagons, ((, , , )) but you're not placing many assessments each time you change your vote.

Just like you did with the
Voyc
vote, you say that you think there's a better lynch/wagon option, but your reasons for voting are to help town, because it's making a discussion point via wagon.
No, I didn't say that. I think Mylo is scum, and I said why in .
OK yeah, I missed that. But I'm not sure why you think
Mylo's
reads are fabricated?
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
Either you're intentionally creating confusion,
or
your own thoughts are unclear,
or
you're not helping other players see your perspective.
Did you check my ISO? I stated my reasons for each vote:
1)
, so you voted
Voyc
based on activity?

2)
, I mean,
Lycanfire
did ask me a valid question that I don't think I answered. :facepalm:

3)
, this wasn't a reason for a vote on
me/Varsoon
. You just placed a vote because you couldn't post more that night.

4)
Kind of want to see how his reads are fabricated in your eyes.

In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 243, Vartsun wrote:UNVOTE:

Not keeping a vote on a replacing-out slot.

~ Taly
In post 24, Vartsun wrote:Where's your vote?
Varsoon's
busy right now, but I'm kind of holding out on voting until I speak and get in sync with him.

~ Taly
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Post Post #249 (isolation #65) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:18 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Come on guys, we've had 5 posts in the last 24 hours and 3 of them have been from me.

Since nobody's really prompted for anything
((besides
Nero
and maybe
doom
?))
, I guess I'll prompt the rest of you.

1)
Skitter30
, what are your thoughts on
doomfeathers
?
2)
Voyc
, your vote has not changed since in RVS...
3)
Ausuka
, what do you like about the
Mylo
wagon?
4)
Mylo
... I thought you'd be able to post more, and an explanation of your vote remaining on
brass
but he's a townlean?
5)
Judge
, is it a protown thing to place someone to L-1 even if you're not scumreading them? How do you feel about the playerlist's vote pattern?
6)
Still waiting for that
brass
replacement.

OMGUS
is an overused term that is meant to solely minimize and undermine someone's reasoning for a vote without truly explaining why a person feels a vote isn't necessary or rational.

The very concept of the word
LAMIST
is stupid, and I didn't even remember this dumb non-scumcatching buzzword being a thing when I signed up and began playing in 2014/2015.

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Post Post #250 (isolation #66) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 249, Vartsun wrote:Come on guys, we've had 5 posts in the last 24 hours and 3 of them have been from me.
I'll gladly wall-votepost anybody who says this is because a head of
Vartsun
is posting.

And now we have 6 posts in the last 24 hours; half of them have been from me.

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Post Post #254 (isolation #67) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Mylo's a bad wagon, imo.
Flip won't inform anything.

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Post Post #255 (isolation #68) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by Vartsun »

I also don't think it's flipping red, either.

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Post Post #275 (isolation #69) » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:43 pm

Post by Vartsun »

YEAH IT'S ALMOST LIKE I TOWNREAD MYLO AND I THINK THEY'RE A BAD LYNCH AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND A LOT OF PEOPLE'S RATIONALE FOR VOTING THERE
anyway
In post 261, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 6, Vartsun wrote:It also bugs me a good deal that this game does not crib any mechanics from Cheetory's Paint Mafia games, as I thought it'd be an excellent theme to do so in.
I guess we can't all be winners, Gamma.

-V
What did you mean by this, Vartsun? How do you know the game doesn't crib any mechanics from Paint Mafia?

@Mod This game isn't an open setup, is it?

This game is closed.
Cheetory's Paint Mafia games all had a public mechanic wherein every player could be 'painted' different colors with each team having inherit colors (red and blue).
Since Splatoon is a game in which the goal is to paint as much of the arena as you can in your team's colors, I was a bit surprised that there was no public mechanic that emulated that aspect of the flavor given there's precedence for paint-related mechanics on-site.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #70) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:34 am

Post by Vartsun »

Image

This is me when I read Doomfeathers' recent posts. (, , )

The guy in this GIF is a metaphor for Varsoon seeing me regain a sense of reads within this game.

This is a prelude to a whole post where I'm trying not to lose my mind.

I'll get to it when... I can concisely formulate the thoughts of the other 5 things I want to respond to.

~ Taly
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Post Post #286 (isolation #71) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:47 am

Post by Vartsun »

Also mod, to clear up; I unvoted Brassherald in


~


I'm purposely making this a separate post because
IT NEEDS TO BE.

In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 246, Voyc wrote:@Doom, about your vote on Vartsun on , could you point out which posts/logic you saw as shady on your review? You had been giving them some townpoints previously, so I'm curious as to what changed your mind then
I forget, but if I decide to make a case on Vartsun, I'll find them again and let you know.
FFS, we're less than 48 hours from a deadline, and you're continuing to push someone with low content, furthermore; I'm assuming you
STILL
scumread this slot? For reasons you haven't stated much at all? Please tell me I'm wrong.

The fact that you keep doing this thing where you vote someone, but continue to say things like
"this isn't my favorite lynch"
or
"I'll make a case here... maybe, when I want to"
is completely disingenuous.


And yes, I'm not using your exact words. Because your words and actions are not clear to me.


You say you want to push for discussion, but you're putting
"if"'s
in your statements, and how you're going to go about engaging with people. It's like you're waiting for a reaction or event to happen so you feel more dignified in making a stance.

If you have such an issue with our gameplay, don't fencesit while advocating for another lynch. :mad:

I see very little motive to gamesolve when I'm reading your posts.

~ Taly
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Post Post #287 (isolation #72) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:47 am

Post by Vartsun »

Spoiler: Reply to Doomfeathers
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 248, Vartsun wrote:
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 241, Vartsun wrote:This doesn't feel natural to me, and unless I get an explanation, then I feel like out of the multiple wagons so far; there's likely scum there, or at least,
Voyc
is town.

There was almost no defense here for the wagon.
It was a pressure wagon, at least from what I saw. Problem?
That's not what I gathered from and in terms of a whole wagon.

If you guys were pressure-wagoning her, why were you and
Brass
placing her in your lynchpool?
In case she didn't respond satisfactorily, same as Lycanfire. She got in the lynchpool by not posting. She got back out by posting.
And what constitutes as not responding satisfactorily?


I'm guessing you were baiting them with your vote? Not because of a scumread? In my eyes, putting someone in a lynchpool and just voting someone to gauge their motives and make a wagon are not the same thing.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
I'm not saying more information is bad. But it doesn't make sense to have your attention jump constantly.
No, it doesn't. So you pick a few things that stand out to you and focus on them. You don't have to analyze the entire game.
I'm sorry, but who has the luxury to cherry pick who they want to focus on and analyze reasons to wagon?

Not town.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
Also, I'd love to see your magical solution of seeing through WIFOM. :roll: If there's any WIFOM you've already detected, maybe you should tell me.
I didn't say "see through"; I said "see past". Don't try to analyze WIFOM. Just look elsewhere. That's pretty much what I did with Ausuka vs. you.
So you think the whole point of Ausuka-Vartsun 1v1 was to cause WIFOM and not gamesolve?

And you didn't come to any conclusions? Because you're not saying that you're analyzing interactions here. You're telling me that you're deliberately focusing on something else.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
1)
You seem completely satisfied that someone, who I don't understand how you're reading anymore, has no believed impact on the game. You're both apathetic to us being lynched, and not receptive to our statements.
Wot, you have a wagon? I think there's a VC coming up soon; I'll see then.
As far as I'm concerned, whether people listen to you is your problem. It is your job to gain people's respect and convince them your opinions are worth hearing. If your partner spoils that for you, you have my sympathies, but I'm not sure why you expect me to yell at everybody to pay attention to you when I don't even strongly townread you. Am I understanding you correctly?
HOW DOES TOWN THINK LIKE THIS?


Thanks for minimizing
Varsoon's
opinions while dismissing me entirely. :igmeou:
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
2)
And yes, I'm saying us as in
Varsoon/I
BECAUSE WE'RE A HYDRA
. We function more closely as one person than two. While you're discrediting
Varsoon
with this statement, you're ignoring any weight I've staked in this game. This is blatantly anti-town.

3)
What makes this worse is, this is literally what I've gathered in half of the playerlist's view toward us is. Which does not serve anything but to create dichotomies and unfairly undermine thoughts.
For the record, I read and analyze everything you (Vartsun) write. I may ignore arguments, but I don't ignore players.
Really? I think you got it backwards.

If you didn't ignore players, then why are you still complacent with a PL on
Vartsun
? :igmeou:

I just feel like you're responding to me just to respond, honestly.

Also, if you analyzed everything
TWO SEPARATE PEOPLE WROTE
; then why aren't you looking at us both as individuals
AND
a duo?

Another thing here is, why would you ignore arguments or players in the first place? You're admitting to doing something like this - which should notably be antitown - but I don't think you're towny for pointing it own in yourself.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
In post 245, doomfeathers wrote:
Taly wrote:
doomfeathers wrote:Misrep? Good grief, I am sick of hearing that word. Anybody up for lynching Vartsun and getting it over with?
This, right here, is why I'm questioning my earlier townread on
doomfeathers
.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving. :igmeou:
That's my salt at everybody leaving the game instead of policy-lynching your slot (no offense to you personally).
I don't get the purpose of a policy lynch in general, and I don't know how autolynching us without taking an in depth look at our motives and reasons in this game are sensible.

Want to know what happens when/if Varsoon/I gets PL'ed? We're going to flip town. Another townie's dying N1, and literally nobody's going to find much resolution in their reads at 7p left, presumably a 5-2 setting.


Not good for the town.
It would have saved ruining the game for about four different players, I think. And you have yet to convince me you'd flip town.
:igmeou: Look at the playerlist.

Does it look like anyone's leaving now?

Ugh. I don't see any consistency in your thoughts here.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
I'm not sure why you think
Mylo's
reads are fabricated?
Because I've done it myself as scum, and this looks just like it.

Quote for analysis of Mylo's reads post:
In post 200, Myloninja13 wrote:Ausuka is a solid town read for me, just consistent strong play.
Vartsun is the player with the most posts, which means he gets some points as I've generally found the highest posting players town. But his actions, specifically the actions that caused people to leave the game, haven't necessarily been town. Is aggressiveness usually a town tell for Varsoon?
This read says absolutely nothing. Activity is a very weak reason; it's as though he's chosen who he wants to townread and then needed a reason to townread him.
brass is a town lean, but I dunno if there's a good reason for that. I've played with him before, and this seems like how he'd play as town?
No reasoning whatsoever.
doom I just kinda give a town lean to anyway, he's solid, kinda annoyed at the game state, exactly what I've seen doom!town do.
Meta read. Yeah, whatever.
HS is a town lean, for some good posts and not anything directly weird.
Weak.
Voyc/skitter/Lycan are all meh for me. They just haven't done enough townie things, and some have done a few questionable things.
No information whatsoever.
Sorry for yet again being a lurker. At this point, my town meta is going to be lurking :(
An apology, and then a statement that he's probably going to lurk some more?
Vartsun wrote:
4)
Mylo
... I thought you'd be able to post more, and an explanation of your vote remaining on
brass
but he's a townlean?
That too.

Myloninja throws a few townreads, but refuses to actually say anything, is not pushing or even scumreading anyone, and actually still has his vote on a slot that has replaced out (and, as you pointed out, he is townreading). It's lazy, cheap, and scummy.
Is he more likely scum than the other players I guess you're suspecting?
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
1)
, so you voted
Voyc
based on activity?
As stated.
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
2)
, I mean,
Lycanfire
did ask me a valid question that I don't think I answered. :facepalm:
In post 33, Lycanfire wrote:What kinds if discussion do you want to have?
I thought it was rhetorical myself.
:facepalm:
In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
3)
, this wasn't a reason for a vote on
me/Varsoon
. You just placed a vote because you couldn't post more that night.
As stated. My reason for the vote was that I needed someone to vote for, and out of my pool, my gut and a quick glance said you were the scummiest.
Why do you have to vote someone? It's valid to talk prior to voting sometimes, you know.

And this is first time I heard directly that this hydra was in your lynchpool. Who else is in there?

In post 252, doomfeathers wrote:
Varsoon's
busy right now, but I'm kind of holding out on voting until I speak and get in sync with him.
That makes sense. You don't seem the type to sit on it otherwise.
My solo game and my hydra game are not the same, regardless of alignment.

Of course, I have another head, and I understand that head before I act.

It's kind of the same as my solo game; I think to understand my own thinking, and then I act. I'm just quicker.

In post 257, doomfeathers wrote:Good, I like discussion.
I exist.

is a huge-ass associative based off no factual information.


Spoiler: Reply to Skitter30
Hey,
Skitter30
?

I agree with a lot of your perceptions in this game.

But here are some ways you can work with me
(Taly)
:
1)
Ask me questions.
2)
Comment on my reads.
3)
Take the word "toxic" out of your word usage in referencing this slot.
4)
Tell me your reads.


Spoiler: Reply to Nero Cain
Nero Cain wrote:
In post 248, Vartsun wrote:I think they do.
you do?

b/c I think there's a huge difference in "I don't like this wagon b/c I disagree with the case" and "this wagon popped up out of nowhere and I don't like it."

All wagons have to start somewhere so...like if you want to argue that there's scum that was sheeping a bad case that's fine but I don't think you made that argument and if you did it got lost in your sea of walls.

Now true, you did say
In post 241, Vartsun wrote:I don't trust meta reads... almost ever, and I don't feel inclined to follow someone on a meta-read who hasn't really explained it.
in response to my criticism but that's very much in conflict with your original post about not liking the wagon b/c it popped up.
Is this really worth all of your attention? :igmeou: Many votes are once are usually not all town, imo, and I didn't understand the initial wagon there.

I've been pretty vocal on my thoughts revolving around wagons, and my thoughts in general throughout my posts.

If you want to dig into a reason why I didn't put a non-scumread to L-1, then continue.


Spoiler: Reply to Ruby Red
Can you give me your assessment of the interaction between
Ausuka
and this hydra?

Varsoon
and I have been waffling on our reads around her.

Also, you're saying
Lycanfire
can be town for now... But he's been replaced by
Nero Cain
to my understanding.

What are your thoughts on him?


Taly's Readslist D1 - Will Expand More On When I Have Time

Town

Skitter30
- Thinks independently from most players in this game, which strikes me that she's working to solve it.
Nero Cain
- Likely town focusing on a needle within a haystack. I think he's making reads and pushing his thoughts. This is a volatile read, though.
Ruby Red
- I like their mini statements on many posts. I'm understanding their thought process and I feel that this is coming from town using PoE based on interactions in D1.
Voyc
- Lesser confident townread, but she looks more oriented in understanding the game than other players.
Mylo
- Similar to
Voyc
, but I'm comfortable knowing that this slot has put emphasis in acquiring townreads.

???

Ausuka
- Will need to reread
Ausuka
. I haven't really taken notice of her in the last few pages, and it worries me. It's possible we had a TvT interaction; but I'm not sold either way yet. Still didn't like some of their posts and I don't entirely follow their reads.

Scum

Doomfeathers
- Does not strike me as genuine in their pushes on others. I feel like he's putting emphasis on suspecting other people while he continues wagoning another. Very reserved with their read progression.
Dredd
- This is a lighter scumread, but I feel like there's frustration in
Dredd's
posts - but I don't know where it's coming from. I feel like they've made more observations in just stating that other people have "bad play" in his view versus discussion to help form reads. They haven't voted yet, so I don't know their POV and it's close to deadline...

VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd

Main Reasoning:
While I scumread
Doomfeathers, Varsoon
is iffy here from what he's told me; both
Varsoon
and I at least have a scumlean on
Judge
, and I believe this is a worthwhile pursuit.

I also think I'm going to explode if I continue line-by-lining
doomfeathers
.

~ Taly
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Post Post #288 (isolation #73) » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:48 am

Post by Vartsun »

>
This was being typed before were posted, but I'm still voting her for clarity and in-sync read purposes.
In post 284, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:
In post 249, Vartsun wrote:5) Judge, is it a protown thing to place someone to L-1 even if you're not scumreading them? How do you feel about the playerlist's vote pattern?
I don't think anyone reached L-1, but I may have missed it. And generally speaking it's not protown, especially early in the game when someone could lolhammer not realizing it's the hammer (or pretending not to realize it).
Kindly stop right here. Because I agree with you.

But I'm also confused.

What was the point of , then?

However, deeper into the game it could be a protown thing depending on the circumstaces and info available at the time.
In post 284, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:I feel that your slot votes whoever votes them (give me a cookie for not using the term OMGUS) :P
It's a bit hard not to do this when 5 out of 8 other SLOTS vote you in less 10 pages, some more than once. :igmeou:

Lycanfire - RVS, replaced out.

HS - RVS, replaced out.

- Ausuka.
- Ausuka.
- Doomfeathers.
- Brassherald.
- Nero Cain/Slot W/ Lycanfire.

The slots who HAVEN'T voted us are:

1, a lurker.
2, the one townreading most people.
3, the one who's making their own independent assessments of the game.

~ Taly
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Post Post #341 (isolation #74) » Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:24 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 290, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:
In post 288, Vartsun wrote:What was the point of 225, then?
Kindly read my follow up post. I demonstrated that there were others who reached L-2 before and after Voyc. My problem is with treating them differently. "No resistance" could very well be applied to my slot as well as it got to L-2 on page one. Not even everybody had posted by then, so if Voyc's was a no resistance wagon then so was HS' and a couple more.
Oh fuck. I meant

What wagons do you think are being treated differently?
In post 291, skitter30 wrote:
In post 287, Vartsun wrote: Question: Why are you townreading them for producing townreads when the townreads are all really meh?
Because unlike half of the playerlist at the moment,
Mylo's
also focused on figuring out who is town.
In post 291, skitter30 wrote: I guess talk to me more about Doom? Mainly what I'm getting from you is that you think that he's being disingenuous and hedging his bets by voting one person but leaving room to vote other people?

Is this scum-indicative for you?
Yeah, I think it's more likely coming from scum. I can see town trying to look at all possibilities; but
doomfeathers'
approach does not strike me as having that motive.

What town looks at their reads and says:

"Wagons are good."
"Let's lynch this person due to a policy lynch, even though I'm not going to elaborate on my scumreads or let me assessments over my wagons be known."
"These other people are scum."
"But I'm going to wagon this person."
"And this person responding to me is scum, but I'm not going to explain why other than make an associative on them, with the person I'm wagoning."


That's how I'm seeing
doomfeathers
right now.
In post 291, skitter30 wrote:You said varsoon disagress - what does he think about Doom?

I feel like doom's kinda happy to wagon whoever, if that makes sense?
It makes total sense, and that's why I think
doomfeathers'
pushes are more likely scum-motivated. It's good to wagon and gauge for information, but that's not consistent with who he thinks is scum, who is in his lynchpool, who he thinks warrants pressure, and what he thinks about certain wagons.

Also,
Varsoon's
busy, so I haven't been able to speak to him. :/
In post 294, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:
In post 292, skitter30 wrote:I feel like you're overly focused on this and that this convo isn't directly relevant to solving the game.
I made a point. Vartsun asked about it. I responded. If nobody asked I would not have been discussing it over and over again. Stop bringing it up and I will stop talking about it.
This is a weak dodge.
In post 294, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:As for reads, it's so funny you should ask me for mine when you yourself say everyone is scummy. I do not want to block anyone's lynch, but I also don't have a confident scum read yet. Mylo's lynch was as good as any to me.

Generally speaking my reads are bad anyway (you can go read any of my previous game. I only have 3-4 finished games anyway). When I try to be a hero it most likely backfires. I want to learn to develop my reads more reliably, so I'm going to wait and see how things go before I have a solid opinion on anyone.

P.S. The last game I played I faked a guilty on someone I was confident being scum, and they flipped town. Go figure. I'm good with game theory, but in application I still suck.
In post 295, Judge Joseph Dredd wrote:And it really doesn't help when you say something and people tell you you're wrong, and you explain and then they say "that's a lot of words to say YOU'RE WRONG" without showing you how you're being wrong.
I don't get why your thinking here... Are you suspecting
skitter30
? At least she's explaining her thought process for her reads.

Town NEEDS to start somewhere in gamesolving, and while she thinks people have done scummy things
((which I think the entire playerlist has done to a degree))
- she's willing to look beyond the surface, and I think that's town.

So yeah. Tell me your reads.

~

I'm more interested in Voyc post-flip.


~

In post 300, Ausuka wrote:
In post 238, Vartsun wrote: @Ausuka: In what ways is the scumhunting (or lack of it) that you see from those slots indicative of a town mentality?

-V
Hunting for scum in an organic way is towny. I see that in nero and I saw it in lycanfire. To me, two towny players in one slot makes for a very towny slot.
I'm definitely starting to think Vartsun is town, now. They look genuine, and interested in finding scum.
I like the mylo wagon because Mylo has been consistently scummy; first in 31, which I have explained in detail already, and then in 200, where he's really fence-sitty and doesn't give strong opinions apart from on me. I think mylo is a good lynch today, in general.
However... deadline is in 21 hours, so, I have to compromise today.
VOTE: Judge Joseph Dredd

I still think the scum are JJD and Mylo; JJD has been arguing a lot about how Voyc isn't as towny as people think, but not really anything relevant. I kinda like Ruby so far. My vote on voyc was based on 70, not 68; I thought voyc was at least a little scummy so I decided to hop on the wagon and see what happened. Not sure why Ruby thinks mylo is a townie, and Taly's reasoning for that is also really ??? to me. I like the skitter lynchpool of {jjd, mylo, voyc} I think; voyc popped in when she got wagoned but now isn't really doing anything again?

This post isn't nearly as big as I thought it'd end up being but, oh well.
Mylo and Skitter30
are town to me because they're focusing on acquiring townreads, and using that to also help improve their perception of the game.

I sympathize with
Mylo
as well.
In post 302, Myloninja13 wrote:Sorry guys for being useless this day phase, I just always struggle in the early stages of the game. When suspicion was on me, particularly early, I generally just freeze up and end up typing posts before immediately backspacing through them.

I... could root against my lynch here but I just get everyone's reasonings. My vote is still on a virtually RVS reason, I've made no solid town posts and my read post was terrible. I feel like not lynching me would just create problems in the future. Thankfully I'm only a vanilla townie, so we should still have most of our PR's in day 2.

My only proper reads before I die are Vartsun and Nero Cain town, and I'm suspicious of JJD and Voyc. Mostly just for the style of all of their posts, I can't see Vartsuns or Nero Cain from scum and JJD and Voyc have always seemed a bit further away from the game.

I apologise again, I'll eventually evolve into a player who is good at day 1.

UNVOTE:
You're town to me, and you're not getting lynched.

~~~


:facepalm: I have no clue how to read the claims at the moment, but my scumread on
JJD
has not changed, and I'm still figuring
Ausuka
out.

Varsoon's
very busy, so I'm kind of acting a bit more singular at the moment... but hopefully he'll be able to post before the deadline is reached.

By the way: Judge is at L-1... Announce this next time, Ausuka...


~ Taly
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Post Post #392 (isolation #75) » Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 am

Post by Vartsun »

Well, that was a shitshow.

Nero
neighborized us and he died. :(
In post 383, Ruby Red wrote:VOTE: kop

Guilty
Is this an actual guilty? Just to verify.

I already felt like
doomfeathers
was extremely likely to be Mafia already.

If it is a guilty claim, then I'm giving intent to hammer now.


If it isn't and I'm misreading... then I'm still willing to lynch this slot, but on the condition that
Kop
posts first.

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Post Post #395 (isolation #76) » Wed May 02, 2018 8:50 am

Post by Vartsun »

Egh.

I may hammer in a few minutes anyway.

I'm townreading everyone else, and
Doomfeathers
was originally my stronger scumread than
Judge
.

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Post Post #404 (isolation #77) » Fri May 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Why the fake guilty?


-V
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Post Post #405 (isolation #78) » Fri May 04, 2018 8:34 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Starting to realize the theme on this setup is a very thin coat of paint.

-V
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Post Post #406 (isolation #79) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:40 am

Post by Vartsun »

:mad: Yeah, both heads want to know why the fake guilty following the hammer-manipulation, and the reason better be good.

D2 was bullshit.

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Post Post #418 (isolation #80) » Sat May 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 409, Ruby Red wrote:i thought doom was obvious wolf given the flip

espec given the replace out during the night

guess i was wrong
Thinking replace outs are alignment indicative is a quick way to be wrong every time, by design.
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Post Post #420 (isolation #81) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:37 am

Post by Vartsun »

I really don't know why anyone thinks there's a person outside of Ruby who should be wagoned to death today.

-V
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Post Post #422 (isolation #82) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:07 am

Post by Vartsun »

Happens plenty.

If anything, that's just leverage that lets scum get away with FAKING A GUILTY on DAY 2 in a CONTENT STARVED GAME when there should be plenty of role-related info from flips/ability results that would generate good discussion and content to help people actually figure out the game.

-V
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Post Post #425 (isolation #83) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:24 am

Post by Vartsun »

Yeah, I'm completely not going to let
Ruby
slide here, and I don't think it's far-fetched for him to do this as scum.

I feel like all the slots outside of
Me/Varson
have just been WIFOMed to high hell with this play, and I don't think it's best to keep
Ruby
in the potential MYLO scenario if he's town.

VOTE: Ruby Red

I'm putting this to L-2, but if ANYONE hammers this prior to my return, it is an immediate scumclaim and deserves the credit for a potential town loss.


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Post Post #426 (isolation #84) » Sun May 06, 2018 10:17 am

Post by Vartsun »

I'd also like to further note that this hydra was highly suspected essentially all of D1 and now we're getting NK-baited like that's our purpose in this game.

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Post Post #454 (isolation #85) » Sun May 06, 2018 3:04 pm

Post by Vartsun »

Nobody directly shit-sheeped my vote, so I feel a little better about
Skitter
.

But I still don't know, and I still don't understand
Red's
D2 play. If everyone still scumread
doomfeathers
, then why fake a guilty even? Was that just so nobody would really talk about anything else in the day? Was that to bait someone? Like... my biggest thing is, this play is iffy regardless of your alignment,
Red
.

I'm going to reread the thread and reevaluate my vote/stance while I talk to
Varsoon
about this.

UNVOTE:

Unvoting right now because I don't trust anyone else with voting at the moment. My vote may return to
Red
or go anywhere else still.

~ Taly
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Post Post #455 (isolation #86) » Sun May 06, 2018 3:08 pm

Post by Vartsun »

But
skitter
, if you don't want
Red
to be in a F3 situation, then why are still voting
mylo
?

And what makes think you'd even survive to F3?

~ Taly
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Post Post #456 (isolation #87) » Sun May 06, 2018 3:10 pm

Post by Vartsun »

In post 432, Ruby Red wrote:
In post 426, Vartsun wrote:I'd also like to further note that this hydra was highly suspected essentially all of D1 and now we're getting NK-baited like that's our purpose in this game.

~ Taly
like if you realize this then i get why it might make you mad but should it not make me less likely to be wolf
So you're not denying that this slot's being positioned to get NKed, then?

~ Taly
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Post Post #462 (isolation #88) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:21 am

Post by Vartsun »

In post 461, skitter30 wrote:
In post 443, skitter30 wrote:
In post 441, Ruby Red wrote:why the fuck does anyone not kill the watcher who CCed a wolf?
No fucking idea.

If I'm being paranoid I would say that the scum-kill on ausuka got blocked somehow and that nero died cuz he was weak, but idk how plausible that is.
If this is a thing or someone has an explanation for possibly blocking the nk n1, please say that.

Cuz between neo and asuka that would effectively be a probable-guilty on vartsun and I want to make sure we don't overlook the obvious and start wild goose chases.
It's literally impossible without a claim and since no one outright claimed it right away, (as it'd be conf-towning Ausuka and conf-scumming us) it's not extant and you shouldn't be paranoid about it and if anyone does claim it, we still have leeway to lynch them to prove it. So don't get pysched out about shit that literally does not matter. Stay the course.

-V
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Post Post #464 (isolation #89) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:18 pm

Post by Vartsun »

I think we lynch Ruby, honestly.

-V
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Post Post #479 (isolation #90) » Wed May 09, 2018 2:36 am

Post by Vartsun »

Both
Vartsun
and I are pretty much lost at the moment.

Still don't really trust anywhere either. I'm still a bit salty about D2 because that was just misplay after another in hindsight.

I really hope
Skitter's
not deepwolfing or
Red's
genuinely doing his best to reflect attention off of him; because if either one of them is scum, they're doing a good job. >_<

Voyc
, alongside the votepark on scum, did not quickly and easily assess that the game was solved with
Red's
guilty, they wanted further confirmation prior to the hammer. This could be from scum though, but less likely in my opinion... are there any reasons that make
Voyc
more likely town or scum? I get the feeling that they've been genuine throughout this game but I haven't seen them do a lot of pushing.

I want to wait for
Mylo
to respond before I think of placing a vote.

~ Taly
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Post Post #481 (isolation #91) » Wed May 09, 2018 9:50 am

Post by Vartsun »

I have a bad gut feeling
Mylo
will flip town, but I honestly don't know who else would be scum.

~ Taly
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Post Post #484 (isolation #92) » Sat May 12, 2018 12:17 am

Post by Vartsun »

Intent to hammer
in a few hours.

Literally nothing else is happening and I don't think there will be enough clarity unless we actually get a flip information or somehow hit scum here.
Mylo
has not said anything and I doubt he will at this point.

~ Taly
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