Micro 798 - Splatoon Mafia - Game Over

[skitter30]

VOTE: HS

Hi!! It's been a while

@mod

: I'm always v/la on Fridays and Saturdays

[skitter30]

wagons in rvs are good things.

I agree. I do the same thing sometimes.

I'm good with my vote for now.

Why are you good with your vote for now?

Also @hs: was town in that game.

[skitter30]

But I mean, are you going to even look at the wagon that was placed on you?

I was getting some gut townpings from HS's at post but I didn't know where it stemmed from, but after you said this I realized what was prompting that vibe.

He just like .... didn't care about the page 1 L-2 wagon on him, and didn't like even react or comment to it at all. I feel like scum would have had *some* sort of reaction to that.

Like that post just feels very carefree to me.

[skitter30]

He's doing little and hasn't really posted anything relevant to the game.

I mean, you could have said that about a lot of people at that stage, so I don't really get why you were making an announcement about liking your RVS vote ten posts after you made it.

--

We're barely out of RVS. Is there any real danger of being lynched?

I don't think so, not particularly. I do, however, think that scum would be cognizant of a decent-sized wagon on them that early and, like, care about it and that therefore there'd be some indication that they at least noticed the wagon, and there wasn't from him.

--

I'm liking everyone a bit so far, although particularly doomfeathers and vartsun for actually sticking out and asking questions.

VOTE: Brassherald because he's only made one post so far. If I could double vote, this would also go to Voyc.

I mean, you only had the one post at the time you made this one, so this feels kinda low-hanging-fruit-y from you?

Why'd you pick brass over voyc?

--

I think I'm town leaning Ausuka basically just off her calm nature in a line of suspicion. Few players do that, and much less scum players do that.

I don't really know if I'd describe her response to vartsun as being calm? I'm definitely getting a vibe of frustration from her posts.

I kinda think that what it at least partially stems from is that vartsun and ausuka having different playstyles wrt RVS; vartsun seems to want to ask a lot of questions to find something interesting to poke at, and ausuka seems to just want to wagon someone and see if anything interesting comes out of doing so.

Next page in another post.

[skitter30]

No, I explained in 47 I dislike his hedging of a townlean with "I think I have a townlean" it reads like he's leaving himself flexible enough to lynch anyone, including the person he is supposedly townleaning. Idgaf if he's voting me.

I don't really view this phrasing as hedging; I've definitely phrased reads like that in the past.

Huh. If Ausuka or Lycanfire flips scum, we might wish to investigate the other.

Yeah, I was thinking this too, but she showed similar hesitancy wrt voting mylo in 66 so idk if this is particularly partner-indicative.

Wow. There is definitely a chance Ausuka's case on Vartsun is contrived; I think it's pretty poor. But I still think she's a diversion from the real scum.

Kinda feel the same way. Like I don't really agree with ausuka's case on vartsun but like I kinda get where she's coming from, and like, everything she's saying is internally consistent. Like I said earlier, I think their spat at least partially stems from a difference in how they approach rvs. Also I kinda feel like the strength of vartsun's push doesn't really match what ausuka did? Like:

DING DING DING
It's scum.

feels kinda overconfidant to me there.

I actually really like 61.

--

Meta reads indicate, well, nothing. It seems he shitposts a bit as either alignment and then posts one big post where he starts to do actual work a few days later.

Getting townpings from this. Idk if scum goes and checks someone's meta on whether or not they shitpost in RVS; I feel like they'd just hop on the lycan wagon doom is pushing.

--

this gels really poorly with your comments earlier about rvs wagons being good

I think what she's saying is that RVS wagons are good, cuz they propel the game forward by getting reactions, but wagoning someone who has proved they aren't really here like doesn't actually accomplish anything when there's other things that could be pushed.

[skitter30]

Call it gut. I think he's especially scummy, and I wanted to call attention to him.

I don't particularly think he's scummy. He's like, hardnull to me atm.

--

Ausuka's criticized our slot as 'trying to look pro-town'

for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them.

Ausuka, when put on the defensive, pulls out this same self-admitted 'seemingly protown' play.

I don't really know if that was her argument though?

More like she felt you were to look town by trying to look busy? That's not quite the same thing as trying to look town 'for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them'.

Like her point wasn't that you were explaining what you were thinking, but rather that your pushes/questions felt over-explained and almost try-hardy given the stage of the game we were at.

So I feel like this is kinda misrepping her tbh. Especially since you build on that to find her scummy.

--

@skitter, is there anyone you feel is scummy? Also, what are your thoughts on Vartsun?

Mylo; I don't like her brass vote.

I dislike vartsun more than ausuka after reading through their debate. Their push/confidence on ausuka feels too strong for what she actually did at that stage of the game. Thing is I'm not sure if that's a scum thing or a playstyle thing; that might just be how they usually pursue scumreads. Also I dislike the post above from vartsun as explained.

--

92

a) Can you not, like, post things like 'you fucking trash person' and 'please die'?

b)

Ausuka's criticized our slot as 'trying to look pro-town' for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them.

no, this is still wrong, and I don't know why your slot keeps pushing as if I was doing that.

You're ignoring this, but building on your argument from the quoted bit of 78 as a reason to scumread her. Specifically, you're saying that "she's defaulted to what you've admitted is a stance that 'looks-town' " and that she's scummy for pushing you for doing that while doing the same thing, when the above quote clearly states that that's not what she was scumreading you for.

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I don't get why he stated Varsoon's 'overconfidence' and then lead with nothing else about that. I feel like he's been present but elusive.

a) she

b) I had two problem sets due on Friday, another due on Monday, and came down with the flu again.

c) Cuz idk if that's a playstyle/personality thing from him or a scum thing from him. Reading on, I think that's at least partially personality driven (specifically from 96), and that isn't particularly a reason to scumread him. I do think he's misrepped ausuka repeatedly above though, and I do think *that's* scummy.

--

However, I fully intend to display my conviction with every stride I take and your niceguy arbiter act isn't going to earn you any town points here, kiddo.

I don't think he's trying to earn townpoints. I think he's trying to earn 'this thread doesn't need to turn toxic' points, which I whole-heartedly agree with.

I don't know why you're portraying a call for less toxicity as a grab for towncred.

p-edit: I did not yet read that last post by vartsun.

[skitter30]

Oho, who's being hateful and aggressive, breeding toxicity, making people want to participate less and interact with someone less now, hmmmm?

So quick to about face when you're called out for your rubbish.
Mollie played the same 'boohoo Varsoon is picking on me schtick, play nice' schtick just weeks ago in viewtopic.php?f=3&t=75175
And guess what?
They were scum and that strategy was so effective that even when Titus and Mollie were gladiated, Mollie's team went on to pull the W.
REALLY MAKES YOU THINK

Now please, keep suffocating the actual casing being done here by insisting it's a player versus player issue when it is not. Conflating rhetorical conviction as an assault on a player is a tactic that I've seen scum use time and time again and the worst thing about it is that I will still recognize that it's not alignment indicative, but, yes, it does frustrate me to have my legitimate points against a player be hand-waved as 'toxic play' instead of actual game engagement.

This is the last time I'll acknowledge it or ask nicely; Please stop.
If I really have offended Ausuka, they can let me know, and I'll tone down the crass nature of my push and find other words that convey the passion I feel in being correct about and not backing down from my assessment of their PLAY in this GAME.

-V

OK, now I get why you're calling that as a grab for towncred.

Like, I get that you find her scummy and that you want to case her, but I think that calling people like "you fucking trash person" is out of line, even if you think she's scum. So, like, can you please not post things like that? Like it makes me very uncomfortable and I'll probably rep out if you continue or if other people post things like that tbh.

Also I don't think HS is suffocating actual casing anywhere.

[skitter30]

When did confidence become a scumread thing?

Seriously, are you all so spineless in your approach that when someone's sure of something early on, you're going to project and scumread it?

This isn't what I said. I said that your push felt overconfidant *for that stage of the game and what she actually did*. It feels too strong of a push to me for what actually happened. I don't know if that's a reason to scurmead you, which is why I didn't call you scummy for it, so much as it makes me not really like your push. I thought that the confidence might be a personality thing, and your later posts have kinda confirmed that thought.

Maybe I'm not getting what you're saying about auska.

Can you eli5 the connection you're drawing between the following and her saying she thought you're trying to look busy?

Ausuka's criticized our slot as 'trying to look pro-town' for giving rationale to our engagement and pushes as we've been making them.
Ausuka, when put on the defensive, pulls out this same self-admitted 'seemingly protown' play.

Cuz I don't think she's making the argument that the way you're trying to look pro-town is by giving rationale to your engagement etc.

I think she's just saying that your questions felt like busywork. Like you're trying to make yourself look engaged (and thus pro-town) by posting a lot and asking a lot of questions. (I don't particularly agree with this stance btw; this is how I tend to play).

[skitter30]

HS has consistently called my back and forth with Ausuka 'wall posts' and things that make their eyes roll back and all of that. They've perpetuated the awful idea that anything more than shorthand on A FORUM GAME should be snoozed at and glazed over.

Now please, keep suffocating the actual casing being done here by insisting it's a player versus player issue when it is not.

I thought this was referring to the toxicity thing, not to the wall-posting thing.

[skitter30]

@Skitter: Ah, I was reading that the rationale + questions = busywork, not just questions = busywork.
If I don't ask questions, though, how am I ever going to learn things?
Should I try to be more transparent with what conclusions people's answers lead me to, or why I'm asking the questions that I am?
I'm already so verbose that some people aren't reading my posts as-is.

Yeah I read ausuka's post as questions = busywork, not rationale + questions = busywork, and I think your later posts make more sense to me in this context.

And tbh your questions at the very beginning did same kinda inane and/or 'making a mountain out of a molehill'-y. Thing is that it was RVS and like that's kinda how you leave RVS imo, by finding something interesting to talk about, so I didn't have a problem with that.

Like I said earlier, I think the conflict between you and ausuka is at least partially a playstyle thing; she thinks the best way to get out of RVS is just to wagon someone and see if something interesting happens.

I think that explaining the motivations behind your questions and the conclusions you got from them would probably help with the busywork thing, idk. I feel like most of the players here will read wall-posts if they're not multiple-rounds of a back-and-forth between two players arguing about minutia?

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I think ausuka is very probably town. Vartsun maybe also? At least, the things that I was finding scummy about them no longer apply (ie I thought they were misrepping ausuka but I now think we were reading her posts differently).

--

I don't think Myloninja is scum for trying to bring attention to slots that have posted less. If anything, we should be trying to get those lurker slots more into the game. I'm not entirely certain that Myloninja actually is saying they have a scumread on those players, but instead seems to just be trying to put pressure in those places.

Right, by my point is that it feels kinda low-hanging-fruit-y at that point that there was actually game content to engage with by then.

I actually think I want to VOTE: mylo.

[skitter30]

Spoiler: Thoughts on Lycan's post

I have a pretty clear TR on Skitter just from the pointed questions she's been asking ("why brass over voyc?").

I don't particularly think that 'asking pointed questions' is a good reason to townread me tbh.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, I'd expect more questions and a lot more sense. I want a dancing bear, not a juggler.

Can you translate this sentence into like mafia terms? Does this mean you think his wanton suspicion is not completely natural and/or might be fake?

The Mylo vote from Ausuka feels kneejerky in the vein of skitter mentioning hesitancy... from Ausuka relating to Mylo. I mean, townies can do the whole "yeah i can vote anyone and it doesn't matter in the grand scheme" thing, the issue is well in the tail lights where it ought to matter to them to begin with, to y'know, justify voting anyone not proving themselves to be town. At the same time Skitter and Brass aren't doing anything different minus the different situation. Basically, effort.

I'm kinda finding some of what you're saying fairly difficult to parse tbh. Are you trying to say that ausuka might be following my mylo vote cuz I noted earlier that she *wasn't* voting mylo, so this might be a knee-jerk reaction to show me she *isn't* being hesitant about voting there? And that this is a reason to townread her? Can you like explain this bit again?

Mylo isn't all that invested in finding scum.

I like finding scum

.

Kinda LAMIST tbh

Vartsun is either a VI or scum. The hard dodge from the Varsoon head is frankly disingenuous to me. Varsoon is meticulous in modding games, yet recently (<2 months) put me on a list of people that played his games to completion. Here's a thing to note: I've never played in any of his games or to completion. I played Steven Universe 2 as part of a hydra account, got fed up with the playerlist and flaked out day 2. Obviously I was on his mind a year after this game when he made this list for whatever reason. I can't say I had a standout performance in that game enough to be remembered. I had pretty much no worthwhile impact beyond saying some townie things that kept my hydra partner from being turbolynched as fast as they could have been.

What 'hard dodge' from Varsoon are you referring to?

What does the list have to do with your read on the slot here?

I can apply a good tell i got from SU2 on Foxbird that I later used on a Maria alt in a game later that year. It's called, "shit stirring posts are scum"

Are you applying this to vartsun or HS? (Or maybe both?)

I don't know how I feel about lycan's HS push right now. Like I understand where they're coming from but it feels over-explained almost? Like try-hardy? Idk how to articulate that better atm.

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1) Didn't buy into the Mylo vote reasoning, and sees the possibility of 46 coming from town. This tells me that Skitter's not letting the majority influence her underlying thoughts, and is looking at other potential ideas.

Well, no, I actually wasn't really considering that post as coming from town so much as I thought it was a weird misreading of the situation that demonstrates a lack of an ability to toneread and also could signify a lazy attempt by someone to look like they're participating without actually contributing anything.

Neither of these things are inherently AI so much as indicators that he isn't really reading or following along carefully or participating much.

I tend to intentionally bait reactions in RVS, personally.

That's how you get out of it; and Ausuka's original push on me was a good means to start discussion.

Yes, I agree. My point is that your early posts *did* feel kinda forced and overly nit-picky almost and that's what I think ausuka picked up on. I just don't think forced posts that propel the game out of RVS are scummy, which is why I didn't make a thing about it.

[skitter30]

I'm finding voyc's 142 to be kinda meh - they're kinda fence-sitty on me and then ask a bunch of questions I mostly asked already. Like it doesn't really feel like it's contributing anything. Her content feels kinda empty, if that makes sense?

--

It's going to be hilarious if Ausuka and Vartsun turn out to be distancing scum.

I'm leaning towards tvt, offchance of svt, but it doesn't feel like svs to me at all.

--

it's strange to not see her post one by this point in the game.

Why do you think she would have made one by this point?

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154-156 feel weird to me. Idk how to explain why exactly.

Like Brass is reading too much into Doom's reads of lycan and voyc but wants to set up a *future* convo to discuss the two slots later.

In short, @doom, we may need to talk to each other a bit about the two of those slots later on.

It's specifically this that's pinging me. Idk why he like's like telegrpahing a future convo.

@brass - can you explain the townread on doom?

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I mean,

your slot has been consistently minimizing reasoning for everyone's votes if they were not for Ausuka

. I posted that one in particular because it was a particularly bad post calling everyone else anti-town.

Where is the bolded happening?

[skitter30]

@brass: I don't really think like any of the examples you provided are shading. They read more to me as trying to understand other people's thought processes.

I feel like it's kinda a reach to describe those posts as shading votes tbh.

You've lost some townpoints tbh.

--

Who the fuck starts the game with a joke then spends 3 goddamn posts explaining it? Who cares?

This isn't really what those posts were tbh.

I'll do a proper reread and decide whether I want to play or just call you all names and replace out.

If you wanna rep out that's fine but can you like skip the name-calling part?

You're kinda contributing to the apathy and toxicity of the game tbh.

--

@Taly: why town on voyc?

[skitter30]

I'm feeling kinda apathetic tbh.

The game is more toxic/hostile than I'd like.

And people aren't really posting and like, I don't really see much new to talk about since the last time I posted tbh.

@mod: can you prod mylo please?

And doom and ausuka are up for prods in a couple of hours too.

[skitter30]

Eh, VOTE: brass.

I feel like you're reaching wrt saying that vartsun is shading a lot of people's votes.

And I feel like you might actually respond to a vote on you.

[skitter30]

How do you feel about the gamestate at the moment?

Kinda apathetic. I'd usually say that means that scum is happy with the gamestate, but the apathy might have to do the hostility/toxicity thing and not be directly scum-related tbh.

If you're asking for reads:

-> I think ausuka is probably town.

-> I'm tending towards town on your slot, but if there's scum in {you/ausuka} I think it's you guys

-> I liked brass checking lycan's meta before hopping on doom's push, but he kinda lost those townpoints by framing your questions as 'shading votes'; I don't think you've been doing that at all.

-> I don't particularly get the townreads on doom. Like I don't think anything they've done would be particularly hard for scum to fake. Like I don't think they're townie, but I don't think they're scummy either. He's null.

-> voyc just is and I don't have an opinion

-> mylo is a non-entity

-> Lycan (that's nero now?) - I didn't like the one wall that they wrote

-> I liked HS' opening post. He kinda felt like he was trying to pick a fight with varsoon, and he feels meh otherwise. (JJD now?)

Like I wish I could talk to you more about my reads but I don't have reads on like half the slots.

[skitter30]

Vartsun is the player with the most posts, which means he gets some points as I've generally found the highest posting players town.

This is really empty reason to townread someone. You're like giving them townpoints for quantity instead of substance or quality or content.

Like is there anything *in* those posts that make you want to townread them?

Especially since you say his *actions* haven't been townie.

brass is a town lean, but I dunno if there's a good reason for that. I've played with him before, and this seems like how he'd play as town?

You know your vote's on him, right?

HS is a town lean, for some good posts and not anything directly weird.

Can you give some examples of 'good posts'? What do you think of HS getting involved in the vartsun/ausuka thing?

They just haven't done enough townie things,

and some have done a few questionable things

.

Like ... ?

Sorry for yet again being a lurker.

At this point, my town meta is going to be lurking

Bolded feels like you're trying to get some townpoints for lurking via self-meta, which is actually kinda gross.

VOTE: MYLO

Pretty sure that's L-2.

------

@Skitter TBH TBH TBH to you as well.

lol, I realized that after I hit submit. It's almost become the new 'like' for me

Myloninja sounds like I do as scum trying to fabricate reads--fumbly and unsure. I call bologna.

Ya that's the vibe I got too

--

I dislike the Voyc wagon though, it came shit-out-of-nowhere almost.

I kinda dislike this. I mean it's not like Taly has to agree with the wagon but Brass ISO'd her and said the meta looks different. Like, there's a HUGE difference between "I dislike it b/c I disagree with the reasoning" and "I dislike it b/c it popped up." So it feels a bit like scum that knows Voyc is town.

vote:Varsun

Actually I agree with vartsun there cuz the wagon happened super fast, with like no resistance, on a lurker who had like two posts at the time of being wagoned. It felt a bit bandwagon-y and kinda too fast for the gamestate.

[skitter30]

Voyc just doesn't seem to be exerting a lot of influence over the game, imo, and I tend to townread that more than scumread it.

I tend to scumread that tbh. Trying not to apply that to this game, cuz like they can't all be scum.

--

To reiterate: putting anyone @L-2 (3 votes) is totally NAI to me. They could be town or scum, and the voters can be of either alignments too.

I'm aware that it's a 9 player game. Wagons can and do have resistance in a game this size, and her's went to L-2 without any.

--

Actually I agree with vartsun there cuz the wagon happened super fast, with like no resistance, on a lurker who had like two posts at the time of being wagoned. It felt a bit bandwagon-y and kinda too fast for the gamestate.

it was 3 votes. I don't really how that didn't fit the gamestate and unless you are arguing that there's scum in Asuka/Doom I'm not sure thats a valid argument.

Scum on that wagon imo is brass/doom/ausuka in that order.

(Also HS was on the wagon for like two posts but unvoted before brass voted iirc).

(If we include HS it's something like brass, HS, doom, ausuka)

Not sure why you're leaving out brass here.

Idk how to explain why it felt fast in the gamestate without you like being there to experience it. It happened over like an hour IRL, largley based on brass saying she was more active in a towngame he checked of hers, and this was like IRL less than two days after the game started.

Like it wasn't necessarily even a lurker wagon, so much as a wagon built on meh meta reasons.

[skitter30]

Do we have a replacement for Brassherald yet?

-V

No

@mod: can we get an extension given that we don't have a replacement for brass?

[skitter30]

though looking back

@HS-Why did you even vote Voyc?

HS repped out; JJD is the new HS

[skitter30]

Well, that's disappointing that he can't answer.

Yep. I want brass to answer some stuff too and he's gone now ...

I'd probably be voting there if it wasn't an empty slot I think

[skitter30]

Not really feeling scum!vartsun right now tbh

I like how ultimately worked things out with ausuka and tried to understand her POV.

I dislike how brass framed them asking about people's votes as 'minimizing votes people made that weren't an ausuka' cuz I don't think vartsun did that anywhere; that makes brass scummier than vartsun and I don't think both of them are scum together.

[skitter30]

Now, can somebody tell me again why Voyc is town precisely because she had 3 votes on her?

@Doom: I don't see scum-Voyc put at L-2 with almost no resistance and Voyc just kind of shrugging it off as likely as it is that scum threw momentum behind it and then backed off.

Doesn't ensure Voyc as town or anything,

but I also don't really see much scum agenda behind Voyc's votes (or lack thereof) either. Voyc just doesn't seem to be exerting a lot of influence over the game, imo, and I tend to townread that more than scumread it.

-V

I think you're kinda misrepping Varsoon a bit tbh.

--

So, I do not know what X' alignment is, not do I know the alignments of their voters, so it's NAI for now.

I think it's defintiely possible to get reads from the gamestate or how wagons formed without directly reading the actual player or knowing the alignment of said player. Like sometimes I get reads on slots from how *everyone else* is intereacting with the slot, instead of from what the slot actually did.

Like I don't think it's that unreasonable to have a read on a slot because of a wagon.

--

Out of 8 people; I'm only confident in maybe... 2 or 3 reads?

Which reads are you confidant on and why?

Taly Head Thoughts: Mylo's null to me; activity is not often AI, and his most notable thing is that his brass vote is still on.

That his brass vote is still on *even though he's townleaning brass*. He has like five posts in over a week and none of them have been particularly impressive.

I can't tell if this post was to breed apathy or take a lazy route in game solving.

I can kinda see scum finding an easy mislynch in town!vartsun by pushing it as policy tbh.

--

This quote embodies most of my problems with the playerlist right now.

I mean, your slot was kinda toxic and was largely directly responsible for 1/3 of the game repping out.

I get that there's two of you, and I like how *you* play, but like, I have to take both heads into account, and varsoon contributed to an unhealthy/toxic/hostile gamestate that made/is making this game kinda hard for people to play. And you don't seem to be around as often as varsoon is.

So, like, that's why people I think are focusing more on varsoon than you, and like, I get why you're annoyed, but I don't think it's unfair of everyone else to view your slot that way.

Want to know what happens when/if Varsoon/I gets PL'ed? We're going to flip town. Another townie's dying N1, and literally nobody's going to find much resolution in their reads at 7p left, presumably a 5-2 setting.

Yeah that's why I'm not really feeling a PL even though it would probably help the gamestate in at least the toxicity-sense. Not sure you're flipping scum and I feel like I can work with you (taly) and even though your slot was kinda toxic, it also has driven much of the game-content, and if you guys aren't here, I think there will be less content and the game will still be apathetic, albeit for different reasons.

More tomorrow at some point.

[skitter30]

1) Skitter30, what are your thoughts on doomfeathers?

Not sure.

I don't see any strong reason to townread him, and I don't see any strong reason to scumread him.

I kinda feel like they're looking for wagons.

I kinda like 260 though; it kinda feels like they're eager for someone new to do stuff; I feel like scum would be happy with the apathy. But this is like the towniest post I saw from him imo and it isn't strong enough for me to feel good putting him in my townpile him for it.

In case she didn't respond satisfactorily, same as Lycanfire. She got in the lynchpool by not posting. She got back out by posting.

Is it literally just that she posted? Did you like the *content* of what she posted?

Mylo's a bad wagon, imo.
Flip won't inform anything.

-V

It isn't a particularly high-info flip but I feel like there's a fairly decent chance he flips scum tbh.

If Myloninja flips scum, let's wagon Vartsun.

Yeah I noticed that connection too. Not sure if scum!vartsun goes out of their way to tie themselves to a partner's flip in such a blatant way though.

YEAH IT'S ALMOST LIKE I TOWNREAD MYLO AND I THINK THEY'RE A BAD LYNCH AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND A LOT OF PEOPLE'S RATIONALE FOR VOTING THERE

Cuz he isn't posting here, is active onsite, and the few posts he's made aren't really game-advancing or are kinda gross.

Like he isn't here, and when he is, he isn't doing anything useful.

Aside, I dislike that voyc's vote hasn't changed since *literally* post 10.

I don't think anyone reached L-1, but I may have missed it. And generally speaking it's not protown, especially early in the game when someone could lolhammer not realizing it's the hammer (or pretending not to realize it).

I mean, for someone to be lynched (even on day1), they have to be placed at L-1 at some point.

Like we need to lynch someone today. I don't get why people are being conservative with their votes *at this stage of the day* when we kinda need a lynch to happen.

I'd want to PL Ruby b/c calling ppl wolfy is annoying as fuck to me.

I'm opposed to PLs and especially so in a 9 players game. We only have 2 mislynches and I'm not going to waste one of them on someone I'm not SRing.

I'm pretty sure Nero's post was made in jest.

Taly's posts seperately.

[skitter30]

Mylo - Similar to Voyc, but I'm comfortable knowing that this slot has put emphasis in acquiring townreads.

But I feel like the townreads are all kinda empty though.

Like they townread your slot cuz you have the most posts even though the content has 'not necessarily been town', while questioning if agression is a towntell for varsoon.

They townlean brass but they 'dunno if there's a good reason for that' while leaving their vote on brass.

Doom they 'just kinda give a townlean to anyway' and cite meta that doom doesn't remember them having

HS is a townlean 'for some good posts and not doing anything weird'.

like any one of these reads are questionable and all of them together is kinda gross.

Question: Why are you townreading them for producing townreads when the townreads are all really meh?

Voyc - Lesser confident townread, but she looks more oriented in understanding the game than other players.

Her slot's kinda underwhelming but isn't actively gross like mylo's is.

4) Tell me your reads.

I would be cool with lynching right now: jjd, mylo, and voyc

Probably not in my lynchpool for today even though I don't particularly townread them (ie if someone made a compelling case I could vote there. Would consider voting as a compromise deadline lynch): nero, doom and ruby red

Somewhere in between the above category and actually townreading: vartsun

Townleaning: ausuka

I don't have very good reads right now.

I don't really have any questions to ask you cuz I mostly get what you're thinking from your posts tbh.

I guess talk to me more about Doom? Mainly what I'm getting from you is that you think that he's being disingenuous and hedging his bets by voting one person but leaving room to vote other people?

Is this scum-indicative for you?

You said varsoon disagress - what does he think about Doom?

I feel like doom's kinda happy to wagon whoever, if that makes sense?

[skitter30]

What was the point of 225, then?

Kindly read my follow up post. I demonstrated that there were others who reached L-2 before and after Voyc. My problem is with treating them differently. "No resistance" could very well be applied to my slot as well as it got to L-2 on page one. Not even everybody had posted by then, so if Voyc's was a no resistance wagon then so was HS' and a couple more.

Instead of focusing on the L-2 voyc-wagon, could you like tell us your reads? Who you want to lynch today? Who you don't want to lynch today?

I feel like you're overly focused on this and that this convo isn't directly relevant to solving the game.

[skitter30]

I don't have very good reads right now.

Like almost everyone is scummy to me at this point and I kinda have to start looking for people who are less scummy than others to take them out of my lynchpool cuz town has to be *somewhere*

[skitter30]

I kinda like that mylo post tbh.

Yeah, same tbh.

I don't really think this dayphase is going anywhere else and we're rapidly approaching deadline so

intent to hammer jjd

[skitter30]

@gamma:

Is deadline in ~4 hours from now?

Cuz if yes, we need to, like, figure out who's getting lynched.

(Also, can we maybe get a vc?)

So, just to summarize where we're at:

-> mylo claimed vt

-> jjd claimed macho non-consecutive watcher, has four votes

-> ausuka claimed two-shot watcher.

I kinda think that jjd's reaction to my intent was townie tbh. Incredibly anti-town, yes, but I'm having a hard time seeing scum *not* claim a PR out of spite when they're given intent (specifically 309)

[skitter30]

I'm *pretty* sure that jjd is at L-1, and I think mylo has two votes, and I don't know where everyone else is voting atm.

jjd - voyc, ruby red, vartsun, ausuka
mylo - me, doom,
voyc - jjd (although I think this is where HS last voted cuz jjd didn't vote anyone)
vartsun - nero

not voting: mylo,

I don't know if anyone else is going to be around before deadline, which is apparently in ~4 hours I think?

I guess I can hammer but I kinda think he's flipping town? I don't really want to no-lynch though but I'm not sure if any other lynch can happen in this timeframe.

[skitter30]

@skitter
Judge actually says he missed the intent to hammer in 329, not sure if this changes anything of your view on 309 though?,
I just noticed that and if it's an important factor, Ig it's good to know

I mean, in 309 he quotes me giving intent and then tells me 'go ahead'. I don't know what he means later but from 309 it definitely looks like he's acknowledging the intent and isn't claiming out of spite, and, like, I just don't think that's what scum does there. I think they just claim in the hopes of getting a cc to kill.

But anyway, there's no time for us to even consider another lynch, and besides if I live I'm the NK and you won't get any info/results from me, so I think I'm the best lynch option how things are.

This doesn't really come from scum also imo. Like I don't think scum encourages their own lynch here.

Also if he's scum and ausuka is town, it's kinda weird that he managed to fake-claim a very similar role that town actually has.

Why wouldn't his reaction be disbelief? In any game, if I truthfully claimed, and then got CC'd, my first thought would be: "oh, they're scum fakeclaiming, that's my role"

This is a very good point though. Idk. I just don't feel like scum ask to be lynched? I feel like they're more survivalistic.

[skitter30]

JJD fakeclaimed my role. He was just unlucky. I called him out for it, when there was 0 chance of me getting lynched. I'm town, there aren't 2 watchers especially in a micro, and deadline approaches. Please, just hammer.

I mean, I'm not accusing you of being scum, and I agree that there's something weird with two similar roles, but, like, I'm having a really hard time seeing 309 coming from scum.

[skitter30]

No, that is the scummiest post I've seen in a while imo. Like town eould just claim there. He's trying to AtE himself out of a lynch, but still isn't giving reads.

Besides, the roles don't lie.

I mean, it's anti-town, sure, but I don't think that post was *scummy*. Like I really don't think it comes from scum.

I think i'm going to be hammering though just cuz like we can't no lynch here and the other people who are online can't (already on the wagon) or won't (jjd himself).

[skitter30]

VOTE: judge joseph dredd

I'm voting cuz we need a flip after the cc thing and given the deadline and who I think will be online in the next two hours I don't think any other flip is really logistically possible or reasonable.

[skitter30]

I don't really think he's flipping scum though.

[skitter30]

VOTE: kop

@nm: iirc kop replaced doom, and ruby red replaced brass.

[skitter30]

@skitter link me a game you were in where someone got guiltied before i rip you apart son

a) she

b) only game that I can think of offhand is here, where it happened twice. Once it was a legit guilty on someone I was already voting, and the other time it was a townie faking a guilty on other townie. I thought he was probalby trolling and that the resultee was probably innocent, but I voted there anyways cuz it was a guilty and it wasn't lylo or anything.

--

Reading through the ISO's of HS/JJD:

-> I don't think vartsun is partners with them. Specifically getting that from how HS started a thing with vartsun and their posting style, and the amount of vitriol in that spat. I don't think partners get that annoyed at each other.

-> I don't know if scum!hs starts a wagon on partner-voyc for the lols? (63)

-> and jjd's first post is again railing against vartsun over something not really AI (170)

-> and again, trying to take apart vartsun's argument that voyc probably isn't scum via wagonomics probably isn't something scum!jjd does to partner!voyc

-> and jjd's ensuing spat with vartsun again probably isn't with a partner

-> voyc probalby doesn't sit on a partner through the entirety of day1

-> ruby red voted jjd and reinvigorated that wagon when they didn't have to

--

VOTE: mylo

[skitter30]

I don't think scum jumpstarts a wagon on their partner like that day1.

I

[skitter30]

imo i should be hard cleared for basically starting the wagon

I guess you have a point. He is trying to use that to clear himself.

[skitter30]

But idk.

He had a bunch of alternative votes options at that juncture. Like he just lolbussed his partner day1 and used that cred to fake a guilty day2? It feels kinda ... outlandish is a good word I guess.

[skitter30]

and now we're getting NK-baited like that's our purpose in this game.

What do you mean by this?

[skitter30]

I think a fairly large portion is that I don't really like care about this game at this point. This game was kinda dead, and got kinda toxic, and then like half the game repped out, and I basically lost interest during the weeklong night.

I'm basically waiting for this game to end or for me to get out of it so that I can join in another game cuz I try to only play like two at a time.

[skitter30]

could also be TMI on not seeming to suspect that i could've bussed

It doesn't feel like a bussing vote to me.

I don't think scum basically restarts a wagon on a (pr) partner when you could have voted like anywhere else

[skitter30]

meh i want skitter over mylo today because i think town wins more when it's Me/Mylo in F3 compared to Me vs Skitter but i'm not sure skitter makes the nero kill

like does anyone have any explanation for that outside of it being the newbie as the last wolf?

If I'm being perfectly honest I don't really want you in LYLO cuz of the wifom.

You probably aren't scum, but like ... you faked a guilty.

A you/mylo/whoever lylo honestly sounds horrid to me.

[skitter30]

Mylo isn't all that invested in finding scum. I like finding scum.

this line from this guy basically solving the wolfteam in the one post is the only real reason i can see why that slot gets killed?

so thinking rn mylo is the last

Yeah but lycan had repped out at that point. Why does scum!mylo kill *nero* because lycan had suspected him?

[skitter30]

I feel like all the slots outside of Me/Varson have just been WIFOMed to high hell with this play, and I don't think it's best to keep Ruby in the potential MYLO scenario if he's town.

[skitter30]

why the fuck does anyone not kill the watcher who CCed a wolf?

No fucking idea.

If I'm being paranoid I would say that the scum-kill on ausuka got blocked somehow and that nero died cuz he was weak, but idk how plausible that is.

[skitter30]

No, I don't. Hence why I'm not voting you now

[skitter30]

I don't know who makes the nero kill.

It doesn't really point anywhere. It kinda reads to me like scum were complacent with the gamestate?

[skitter30]

Or they completely didn't understand the gamestate?

I really don't know why nero gets killed over ausuka

[skitter30]

-> mylo is a non-entity

[skitter30]

I dont really want either but I only have one vote. And I never implied I'd survive to F3.

I don't particulalry townread ruby red (brass?), especially not with the fake guilty but on associatives mylo's the most obvious suspect.

Like Ruby Red's more of a policy/wifom thing and like they're never getting nk'd now, and like I don't want whoever's town in f3 to have to deal with the WIFOM. But I don't townread MYLO, they have actively scummy posts, and they make sense as an HS/jjd partner (and no one else really does), and I can see them making those kills.

[skitter30]

why the fuck does anyone not kill the watcher who CCed a wolf?

No fucking idea.

If I'm being paranoid I would say that the scum-kill on ausuka got blocked somehow and that nero died cuz he was weak, but idk how plausible that is.

If this is a thing or someone has an explanation for possibly blocking the nk n1, please say that.

Cuz between neo and asuka that would effectively be a probable-guilty on vartsun and I want to make sure we don't overlook the obvious and start wild goose chases.

[skitter30]

I know that it's super-improbable but people have been disengaged enough this game that I just want to make sure that the obvious doesn't get overlooked.

Like I don't think you guys make sense as a partner for hs/jjd at all but I'd feel really, really silly losing to scum!you if I didn't bother to cover the bases.

Also what do you think the course ought to be?

[skitter30]

I think we lynch Ruby, honestly.

-V

As policy for the guilty-thing or cuz you think they're scum?

[skitter30]

I know that it's super-improbable but people have been disengaged enough this game that I just want to make sure that the obvious doesn't get overlooked.

Like I don't think you guys make sense as a partner for hs/jjd at all but I'd feel really, really silly losing to scum!you if I didn't bother to cover the bases.

Also what do you think the course ought to be?

there's no world in which vartsun is wolf.

I largely agree but I wanted to make sure that the fringe cases were covered.

[skitter30]

@Mod, prod voyc and mylo?

Aside, mylo has def been posting elsewhere

[skitter30]

Why isn't anyone else voting ... ?

[skitter30]

zzzzzzzzzzz

I basically have nothing of interest to say about anything posted since the last time I posted.

It's low-key concerning me that pretty much everyone is on the exact same page?

Like everyone's basically saying mylo's scum; and if this doesn't end the game than it's me/voyc on PoE; everyone except vartsun seems to share the sentiment that ruby red is probably town despite faking a faking guilty (ie votes on them would be at most policy); mostly everyone is townreading vartsun.

[skitter30]

I really don't know why nero gets killed over ausuka

This is faked right? my crumb was kinda obvious in hindsight.

probably would've been if I'd, like, bothered to reread your posts or any of day1 at any point