Rocky Horror Picture Show - players suck, game over

[Cerberus v666]

Pfft, *accidentally*.

Also, ILU Varsooon.

Also, I don't think we're meant to "win", but rather to decide which cult wins.

Idk. This is weird, until we see a pause cycle and what happens, no way to figure much out mechanically.

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm. If there's a mechanic that allows the neutral survivors to win WITHOUT winning with either cult, that means there is likely at least two unrecruitable slots that have kills(so as to make it possible for the kills to outpace the recruiting). It seems unlikely, but sure, maybe it could happen under those circumstances.

Also, plz don't put pressure on me I just want a chill game, I only joined cuz Drealmerz specifically messaged me otherwise I'd still be on mafia hiatus.

[Cerberus v666]

Somewhere in the mods posts they said that actions, once submitted, can't be changed. Another post used the specific example of the cult recruiting someone one minute before the "hammer" vote is placed to grant them immunity, and said in that situation the cults recruit would resolve before the immunity occurred.

So, to answer your questions Venmar: Yes, and because the mod said so in one of the rules posts.

Post #2 to be exact.

[Cerberus v666]

So, eh, can someone give me a really good reason why certain people should be made immune? That is, some good reasons for each person?

[Cerberus v666]

I can be your buddy.

[Cerberus v666]

Yep.

Also part of why I told people to not give me immunity. I want to play the easy mode game and get recruited to a cult where I have more info and can coordinate shiz, or if I don't get recruited, at least not have any pressure on me because nobody will trust me.

[Cerberus v666]

I feel like there is a lot of confusion on how the voting works, so let me try to clear it up and paraphrase what dreamer said:
All actions are submitted during Play phase.

Once enough votes are given for an immunization, Play phase immediately ends and goes to Pause phase. In this phase, any actions that were submitted in Play phase resolve, in the submitted order. So if cult recruits a person before they become immunized on the same phase, the recruiting happens and the immunization fails. Of course, survivor keeps the failed immunization to use again.

This is why we need to start ending phases quickly, because if we do that, it takes away opportunities for the cults to recruit.

I'm not entirely sure what the votes are worth on Day 1. All we know is, that the person who got a majority didn't change alignment during the next pause.

The Cult Leaders know who's immune as well and will target someone else. But we have no information about the alignment of the votee to start with.

I really hope that we do have some investigative power roles around here!

No, actually we do not. See above.

I do have 2 questions:
What was with the hurt/heal tags? Was that a role thing? Because so one's explained that.

@MOD, can we change our vote?
I'd also like a VC if that's alright with all.

Leaning Venmar as cult leader based on his early take in the immunity issue.

...

Yes, we can change our vote. Explicitly outlined in post 1 or 2.

No, ending the day quickly doesn't keep cults from recruiting.

The best case scenario is if we organize quick immunities, then the cult doesn't get to recruit, and neither does the "town" get to use whatever powers they have, except for those people who were part of the original set of votes. That will happen one time, MAYBE. After that the cult will just recruit early in the day to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I really don't see any benefit in deliberately trying to turn this into a game of who can post/message the mod fastest.

If we force the cults to recruit early, what effect will that have on the game?

1) Cults will have to make their decision earlier in the day phase, thereby preventing them from "wasting" our immunity. This only applies if the cult recruiter is not among the individuals who are driving the immunity vote. Majority required, two recruiters, high likelihood that at least one of them will be around for whenever the hammer occurs, thereby negating this attempt.

2) All PR's must submit actions with minimum information. Right now, that MASSIVELY hurts the "town" since the cults haven't recruited anyone yet. Later on, it might be more beneficial to the town than the cults, but we'll never actually know where that threshold comes without a mass claim early enough in the game that we know at most 2 people are lying with malicious intent, which is something I don't recommend.

3) Anything else?

[Cerberus v666]

@Varsoon: Would you rather play as a survivor and win the hard way, or be recruited?

This question goes to everyone who I've played with before. Well, anyone can answer it, but I'm specifically concerned with the responses of people who I'm familiar with.

[Cerberus v666]

The Heal/Hurt thing is a joke some people do. I don't know the strength of opinion it expresses, but I read it as Heal=TR, Hurt=SR.


@Inferno: Again, the cult leaders don't need to be "really active"...they just need to be in the 50% more active half of the game, assuming everyone logs on and immediately votes for the same person(which obviously won't happen, and therefore reduced the activity requirements even further).

It's really not hard to see a wagon forming when people are deliberately pushing for a quick majority and pop the recruit anytime after it reaches the tipping point.

[Cerberus v666]

So what you're saying is that Vigs are naturally immune?
Why not keep that secret? You could have played a game that appealed to cult and gotten them to waste a night trying to get you.

Meh, it was basically super obvious that any vigilantes that exist would have to be naturally immune, otherwise the random chance of recruiting a vig would be too impactful.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, and Screenplay is prob one of the vigs. He hasn't exactly done a good job of hiding it.

If this was hypothetically true, what positive motivation is there behind revealing or drawing attention to this fact?

Valid question.

pedit: screen isn't claiming anything. Explicitly. And nobody should ask him to claim anything explicitly.

[Cerberus v666]

I believe your reading comprehension is severely lacking Venmar.

People were suggesting that we attempt to quicklynch every day in order to keep the cult from negating our immunity voting, and I was outlining how doing so doesn't actually accomplish anything, therefore we shouldn't waste our time attempting it.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm trying to say that there is some sort of flaw in what you are doing and I don't like it.
You could be misusing your vig claim.
Or you could be trying to protect a really powerful PR role with a fake vig claim.
Or you're trying to blend in by using assumptions about the gamestate.
Of course, you also be double bluffing and really be a immune vig trying to draw cult into thinking that you're trying to protect a powerful PR role.

And I honestly don't think that it's likely that all the killing roles are auto immunized, because that would mean that the cult would have to be able to kill every night should they want to try and take out the opposing cult. That just seems broken to me.

...

Inferno.

Do you realize that your last sentence doesn't make sense?

The reason why the killing roles would be autoimmunized is to PREVENT the cults from gaining the ability to kill, because then if either cult were to gain said power, they would essentially automatically win the game, since the other cult would never be able to attain a situation where they couldn't lose the majority, unless they ALSO recruited a vig of their own.

It's kinda possible that the cults could either kill or recruit, which makes things more interesting, but if it's possible for the "town" to win without a cult win also occurring, it's almost mandatory that kill sources exist which will never be controlled by the cults.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm trying to say that there is some sort of flaw in what you are doing and I don't like it.
You could be misusing your vig claim.
Or you could be trying to protect a really powerful PR role with a fake vig claim.
Or you're trying to blend in by using assumptions about the gamestate.
Of course, you also be double bluffing and really be a immune vig trying to draw cult into thinking that you're trying to protect a powerful PR role.

And I honestly don't think that it's likely that all the killing roles are auto immunized, because that would mean that the cult would have to be able to kill every night should they want to try and take out the opposing cult. That just seems broken to me.

ALSO.

Who the fuck cares about all the crap you're talking about?

There are currently 2 non "town" slots in this game. Unless you think that it's most likely that screen is one of the cult leaders and is attempting to use the speculation about recruit immune vigilantes, while also having access to a kill himself so as to make a kill when forced to, as a vigilante usually is.....then pointing out the possibility that he's a vague isn't beneficial in any way.

[Cerberus v666]

Right, but unless the cult leaders have a kill every day ability, which I doubt, or they can recruit a killing role, they have only a few chances (probably 1 or 0) to take out the other cult leader, which is probably what a cult leader would want to do. I'm not saying a vig that can shoot every day, but 1 or 2-shot vigs that aren't auto immune is certainly a possibility.

p-edit: Or he could be a really powerful PR hiding behind an "auto immune vig claim" (I use this term loosely, because no one has confirmed this to actually be a role in this game nor has Screenplay actually claimed anything) to prevent cult trying to take it. Or any number of gambit or strats. All I'm saying is that Screenplay is definitely doing SOMETHING, and that should be paid attention to.

p-pedit: Shut it Teeky.

BUT WHAT IS THE BENEFIT TO "TOWN" OF POINTING OUT THAT SCREENPLAY IS DOING SOMETHING????

[Cerberus v666]

Like, let's say you have a number of tells on a bunch of people in the game, and from those tells you know that like half of them are doing a variety of things early in D1, and you have this list with them marked down as like probable various PR's, or probably lying about x, where x isn't something that makes him more likely to be the cult, etc.

Would you think it advisable to share this entire list of conclusions you've arrived at with the entire game early on day one?

[Cerberus v666]

I appreciate your openness and honesty Jay.

[Cerberus v666]

FYI, I am either the best or the worst person to grant immunity to, depending on whether granting immunity means the cult will actually recruit me 100% of the time.

So, yeah. *shrug*

@screenplay...don't ever fucking quote my posts without including the full context of a sentence, ESPECIALLY not in such an egregious fashion as to cut a sentence in fucking half.

I was going to say please, then I realized such behavior doesn't deserve the courtesy.

pedit:@inferno, I hate people sharing information that doesn't move the game state forward in a productive way. Early claims of PR's, shit like that, it's just idiotic and bad play, and I view what you're doing with regards to that slot as bad play, UNLESS you think they're a cult leader.

This is me telling you you're being dumb, and stop being dumb.

[Cerberus v666]

fucking quote my posts without including the full context of a sentence,

You know what you are saying.
It’s a lot easier to cut out the bs and just get the point.

...

Except you fucking didn't actually properly communicate my point? You spun that as though I was QUESTIONING whether or not you were doing anything, when what I was doing was questioning inferno on the town benefit to REVEALING the fact that you were doing something.

COMPLETELY different meaning between what you chose to quote, and what I actually said.

Don't fucking do it again.

[Cerberus v666]

A50: From the signup thread.

Subject: Rocky Horror Picture Show - (FULL!) - PM to replace/observe

do note that during the game I won't answer questions posed to me in the thread

Yes, the immunity is permanent and becomes in-effect the moment the majority vote is placed - any player voted to majority, even if they are unable to be given immunity due to any reason (which includes the cult leader and players already recruited), will cause the game to switch to the Pause state, triggering the queue of actions submitted during Play to resolve in order.

This means if playerA is a cult leader and submits the action to recruit playerX on 12:00pm Oct.1, 2020 and the majority vote for immunity is placed on playerX 12:01pm Oct.1, 2020, the vote will cause the game to go into the Pause state, but (assume nothing in the queue prior to 12:00 interferes with playerA) the recruitment will happen before the immunization and therefor the immunization will be void.

This means nothing happens to a cult leader or cultist if they are voted to immunity, but there is no indication of if the vote is effective or not.

There is a limited # of times players may be voted to immunity, but that # is hidden due to the fact that the information could be used to track. This means that, likely, at a certain point the vote for immunity mechanic will no longer be ieffective but I will not take it out of the game so there is no indication of the pace of effective immunization.

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, if people want to immunize me, then I recommend if anyone has a PR that would allow them to make sure I'm not recruited, they should use it NOW, and we can move on. That way the last minute recruit thing won't work, and they'll be forced into recruiting me NOW if that's what they want to do.

[Cerberus v666]

I'm not worried about Cerb being recruited at all.
I've got an ace up my sleeve--a tell Cerb always drops as scum/third party.

I kinda want to request to be replaced so I can bother you until you tell me what this thing you believe to be a tell is!

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, if people want to immunize me, then I recommend if anyone has a PR that would allow them to make sure I'm not recruited, they should use it NOW, and we can move on. That way the last minute recruit thing won't work, and they'll be forced into recruiting me NOW if that's what they want to do.

don't like this, feels kind of like railroading both the immunization and any anti-recruit prs onto yourself while we're still pretty early in the game.

Perhaps you should put on your critical thinking hat and consider why someone would do that. There are only a couple good reasons, and the LEAST likely one is because I'm a cult leader.

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, if people want to immunize me, then I recommend if anyone has a PR that would allow them to make sure I'm not recruited, they should use it NOW, and we can move on. That way the last minute recruit thing won't work, and they'll be forced into recruiting me NOW if that's what they want to do.

don't like this, feels kind of like railroading both the immunization and any anti-recruit prs onto yourself while we're still pretty early in the game.

Perhaps you should put on your critical thinking hat and consider why someone would do that. There are only a couple good reasons, and the LEAST likely one is because I'm a cult leader.

actually, it's pretty likely, becasue as cult leader, if you can get the immunity vote and/or any anti-recruit PRs on you, it significantly hurts town.

...

Let's think about this.

24 players
2 cult leaders=2 recruits
1 immunity by the town, which as cult leader I could bypass by 1) recruiting as soon as the day starts, or 2)recruiting immediately before the hammer vote is placed(by myself, if need be).

How many anti-recruit PR's do you think there would need to be before I become concerned about hitting one of them with my recruit attempt, particularly considering the fact that if I just do 1, I can ignore them?

I sort of think basically everyone(except myself, and MAYBE Varsoon, of course) is approaching this game in a very stupid way, talking about shit like towniness and pointing out single things as suspicious, when we KNOW ALMOST EVERYONE IS FUNCTIONALLY TOWN AT THIS MOMENT.

[Cerberus v666]

why is "pause" even a phase? i assume something must interact with that specifically, because otherwise it seems like everything would just be dealt with instantly, no?

Likely just to give the moderator time to get out necessary pm's for results and such. It is possible that there are "pause" only actions, but they aren't necessary logically.

[Cerberus v666]

fucking quote my posts without including the full context of a sentence,

You know what you are saying.
It’s a lot easier to cut out the bs and just get the point.

...

Except you fucking didn't actually properly communicate my point? You spun that as though I was QUESTIONING whether or not you were doing anything, when what I was doing was questioning inferno on the town benefit to REVEALING the fact that you were doing something.

COMPLETELY different meaning between what you chose to quote, and what I actually said.

Don't fucking do it again.

Why is this guy so grumpy? I think we should let a cult take him lol.

UNVOTE:

I'm not grumpy. I just refuse to allow people to get away with misrepresenting my words. Instead of just quoting what I said, that fucker went ahead and quoted it, then removed all of the context. He took extra effort to make it appear as though I had said something different from what I said, and that's unacceptable.

pedit:@A50:I'll accept that plan, either that, or kill screenplay. I'm 100% serious, I'm not okay with dealing with someone who does this, and since this game doesn't have killing, I'm replacing pretty damn soon if someone doesn't kill him.

[Cerberus v666]

FYI, I am either the best or the worst person to grant immunity to, depending on whether granting immunity means the cult will actually recruit me 100% of the time.

OK, I think I've got me a plan:

1- Vote Cerb to be immunized
2- Shoot Cerb

This plan serves two purposes:

1- Make sure no culted-Cerb is in play
2- Give Cerb the opportunity to take his desired break from Mafia ASAP

No need to applause, but I'll accept checks and/or cash.

"Let's waste our immunize!"

Fuck you, die.

For the record, Varsoon, if this were a normal game I'd say this post guarantees A50 as town. That is, this is just the sort of ridiculous plan he's propose.

[Cerberus v666]

A50 are you almost 5o years old?

Yep. June 8th 1968

What are you going to do after June 8th this year? Change names?

Anyways. I'm quite over this discussion. Pick someone, let's move on.

And shoot screenplay or me tonight, vig. Preferably him because I'm certain of more use to any alignment I end up as than he would be, regardless of his role, but removing me from this mess would also make me happy.

Pedit: why the fuck are all these 90s kids using toonami as their dick measuring metric, when those shows were all reruns when they were watching them?

[Cerberus v666]

[Pedit: why the fuck are all these 90s kids using toonami as their dick measuring metric, when those shows were all reruns when they were watching them?

You don't understand the pain of being an anime fan back then, you weakling. Toonami was basically the ressurection of Jesus himself.

Fucking pleb.

...

Somehow I think you don't realize that I'm actually older than you...and thus saw those shows when they were originally broadcast...and also frequented irc servers for to get my anime fix. Yeah. Series on fucking vhs.

....

[Cerberus v666]

Oh.

I didn't know, Sensei. Carry on.

You. I like you.

<3

I'm almost willing to vote for you for this reason alone, but...not quite.

So, out of the people who are here, the only ones who I expect to be both useful and capable of communicating their points in a fashion understandable to others are A50, Varsoon, Vecna,Gamma, and Chickadee. The ones who I expect to make sense most of the time are Varsoon, Vecna, Gamma, and Chickadee. The ones in that set who won't be super biased, consciously or not, are Varsoon, Vecna, and Chickadee.

I think Varsoon and Vecna are both crazy pretty often. I think that leaves me with just Chickadee as someone who is rational, useful and communicative.

Is that a good enough reason to make Chickadee immune? I think so.

VOTE: Vote: Chickadee

[Cerberus v666]

(Also, no offense intended to anyone who I excluded for one reason or another. Varsoon and Vecna propose SUPER ridiculous shit, and try ridiculous things themselves(in Varsoons case at least). A50 is in his own universe and frequently comes up with these insane conspiracy theory things, that make it hard to figure out what his objective actually is. Gamma...I just remember you were tunneled on someone in some game and ti was super hardcore and went far beyond reasonable.)

pedit: I've never played with screenplay prior to today, and I want him dead by the time play resumes. If he's still alive, 85% chance I'll replace, unless everyone else here is just super awesome. *shrug*

@Jay: I have faith that, unless chickadee was recruited earlier in the day, my mere proposal of her as our immunity target for today will ensure that measures will have been taken to keep her safe.

[Cerberus v666]

A50: Follow me good sir. I will be shot tonight if you get your way, so grant this condemned man his request.

[Cerberus v666]

pedit: I've never played with screenplay prior to today, and I want him dead by the time play resumes. If he's still alive, 85% chance I'll replace, unless everyone else here is just super awesome. *shrug*

Tbf I found his cutting of your quote quite obvious that he cut it, and that he manipulated it for a comedic purpose. Just kind of means you have to proof check the stuff he quotes but I can understand if its a playstyle that's hard to tolerate. *shrug* Replacing out seems like a drastic step when you could just ignore him if it bothers you that much.

It's impossible to tolerate. Hell, I can't stand it when people quote just text, without the person who posted/the post linked, and this goes far beyond that.

I appreciate your sentiment, and normally I WOULDN'T allow that behavior to ruin my own enjoyment of the game, but I'm not invested enough to care about that. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Anyways, yeah, Venmark and Jay, vote for Chickadee, it's a good choice. She even asked someone to not vote for her, which is another point in her favor!

[Cerberus v666]

I have to ask again, to please not vote me. In fact Cerb, if you unvote me, I'll do something for you.

Too late, the die has been cast.

We have passed the point of no return.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, the fact that you can do something for me is EVEN MORE REASON to make you immune.

So there's that.

You also shouldn't do the thing today, because I'm certain you'll still be a survivor tomorrow, and you'll be an immune survivor, therefore you can do the thing with more information. Unless you can do the thing all the time, then you should do it today anyways. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

@Venmar: Doesn't matter.

[Cerberus v666]

@A50: Were I a cult leader, I would have started the day recruiting someone(probably someone I knew nothing about, but that's uncertain), to make sure that my action resolved before any potential protections, so there'd be no uncertainty on my part about why a recruit failed. Every day thereafter I'd likely do the same thing, until we reached a point where mathematically it was unlikely protectives remained who would be working for the side of the "town", and then I'd move to cancel out immunities via my recruiting.

That's almost certainly the optimal way to play this, if all the leader can do is recruit.

[Cerberus v666]

o.o

That. Is an interesting thing.

Did someone use something to make that happen?

[Cerberus v666]

o.o

That. Is an interesting thing.

Did someone use something to make that happen?

Only answer that if your answer will conclusively determine whether or not the two named are cult now, as well as whether or not we can trust that post to be true.

[Cerberus v666]

Indeed. it could also be that they were immunized.

Seems more likely to me that one of the two of them had a power that let them make someone else immune, and would also make themselves immune at the same time, so they used it once they could figure out who they wanted to immunize.

I don't know dunker, so i can't think of why creature would want to immunize them, or why dunker would want to immunize creature. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Now, everyone voting for Jay, should follow Jay, now that they've endorsed Chickadee, the same way those who are voting for me, should also vote for Chickadee, since I endorsed them. Then we'll be up to like 8 votes on Chickadee, and it'll be unstoppable, and we can just move on to the next play phase. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

So, what's the vote count (for reals)? We need to consolidate on wagons, and I suggest NOW is a good time to pick a new target hat hasn'r been brought up before (so it'd be much less likely they got targeted be the recruitment). I as going to say this in my previous post (the one where I commented on the mod's declaration on Creature/Dunker losing virginity), but I decided to wait just in case the cult leaders were waiting to see who was being wagoned.

Since dreal said it was close to the end of he day back then, I figure the cult leaders most likely did submit their action already (which cannot be modified, remember?)

Some how about we all go for: Lifthrasil/Vecna/Nancy Drew 39/northsidegal/JaydragonKing

I think that's a big enough a pool to pick from.

VOTE: Jay

Reason: I know him to be good at Scum and if recruited he could very well fool most if not all of us. Fortunately there's no killing ability for the Scum to get rid of those who won't fall for his trickery, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.

NSG I've never seen Scum!her but she's good at Town, so I'm akin the risk of maybe being able to see a definitive difference in her play if she gets recruited.

Vecna has been giving too much advice I think it will show if his alignment changes. I think his play alone should guarantee he won't be recruited (or at least I hope it does).

Lifthrasil I don't know, but -based on activity- I wouldn't be bothered recruiting him on D1 if I was a leader

Nancy Drew 39 I remember the name, but I'm not sure if we did play together, and she hasn't even posted yet, so probably not a recruitment target either.

A50, are you paying attention? Jay was the leader for like 24 hours, and thus fails your initial test of making a choice who hasn't been previously suggested.

[Cerberus v666]

oh btw im unrecruitable so don't bother trying

I would like to inform all of you that only Virgins may be recruited, the number of you totaling 16

Creature and Dunkerdoodles have recently been spotted sneaking out of the toolshed out back - hair and clothes all askew Perhaps they should erase the V?

Virgin count: 14

Is it just me or does this imply that Dunker lied to us? He claims he is unrecruitable yet the flavour suggests Dunker

was

recruitable but now isn't. I'm not sure what this means for Dunker, but I really want to know what he has to say about losing his virginity to Creature, like some clarification from people who know what the flavour means would be nice.

I actually think that makes it more likely that he didn't lie. Looks to me like he had a triggered ability to make himself and somekne else immune, claimed to be immune early in case he didn't want to use it todqy, and then ended up using it. The "virgin" moniker makes sense as representing recruitables, rather than specifically indicating those with the Virgin role(given that the impressionable transylvanians are functionally identical to virgins), so unless there are more recruitable on top of the 16 noted on that post, it makes sense that the transylvanians are included in the count of recruitable individuals.

[Cerberus v666]

A50, you're certainly overestimating my reputation with this playerlist. Perhaps if there were other people here it wold be likely, but I've played with less than half of the people here, and not necessarily in games where I was impressive.

I do agree that any competent cult would have made their recruits as soon as the game started though, making all this discussion likely pointless.

[Cerberus v666]

Also, if dunk and creature did not perform their immunization, then it likely means a third party decided they were unlikely to be cult leaders or culted. Meh. I don't think it warrants any more consideration until someone claims what they did and explains it.

[Cerberus v666]

@Vecna

- is almost50 immune or not?

Why are you asking Vecna in particular that?

[Cerberus v666]

^ why would that piece of information even be important?

Immunized.. with just one look at you I'm paralyzed
I can't explain, but all Varsoon's posts drive me insane
You've got me on your side
You better believe it
Baby, and I know how it feels

Cross my heart, hope to die
May lightning strike me if I'm telling a lie
Cross my heart, I swear it's true
I've never made love with someone but I think it's now all through
Cross my heart, it's true

(That's a crumb I was a Virgin, and I received nothing in my inbox so I'm assuming the immunization worked fine)

i think this is genuine, i'm willing to put my faith in a50 barring future misteps that might make me think otherwise

as far as i am concerned there are now 4 cultists in the game and

we should now be heavily hovering over people's interactions, or maybe more importantly,

change

, in interactions.

definitely in support of making this cycle a bit longer to weed that out.

[Cerberus v666]

99% chance that voting here guarantees we will both not hit someone who is already immune/not a virgin, and that they will not be recruited this phase.

Only chance of failure is if they were recruited yearerday.

100% serious, this is a guaranteed thing, we can carry on with everything else but this is the mechanically optimal choice to make.

VOTE: Jaydragonking

[Cerberus v666]

@cerb - i know you think you're clever and all, and bravo to you, but it doesn't answer my question.

i'll attach a question of my own:
- why care that I asked vecna that at all?

as far as i am concerned there are now 4 cultists in the game and

we should now be heavily hovering over people's interactions, or maybe more importantly,

change

, in interactions.

definitely in support of making this cycle a bit longer to weed that out.

Because I don't recall you holding vecnas opinion in high regard in the previous phase? Therefore, this is a change in attitude worth noting.

And...I *know* I'm clever.

[Cerberus v666]

Though to be fair, with things still being in pause, it's possible that there's no functional difference between yesterday and today, so there's nothing to be gained from that line of inquiry. The fake play, followed by another pause, hurts the justification for my inquiry. *shrug*

Pedit: nope, no elaboration shall be forthcoming.

[Cerberus v666]

you do know i asked the question and you critiqued it BEFORE dream paused the game

Yes, and my note that the potential for any change in the status between vecna and yourself has been reduced came up after the pause happens. Being in pause still means there are things unresolved, most likely. That means those things could change the situation when play begins again. In essence, had you expressed that interest in vecna thoughts before the pause phase ended, I would not have batted an eye. Since the game state has been changed so that fact is true, your interaction with him is of less significance than had it actually occurred after the next play phase began.

Pedit: <3 do what you need to Gamma, feel better.

[Cerberus v666]

@lithrasil: Multiple players answered your question within a couple pages of you asking it. I suggest you pay more attention to the game thread before forming opinions about those who are willing to answer questions and those who ignore you.

[Cerberus v666]

PLAY resumes

You should stop doing this. If you're going to make a game where time stamps matter, you need to have a set time when you'll accept the submission of actions, known long in advance, rather than just having action submission become allowable whenever you show up.

If I told you all that I could guarantee someone wouldn't be able to be recruited during a phase, would you vote for them in order to extend their immunity and make it permanent?

[Cerberus v666]

I can also do something similar, going forward.

Why did you refuse to be immunized then? :-/

Are you still refusing to be immunized?

Would you do this thing to me in the next 3 minutes?

[Cerberus v666]

So what is the point to immunize then?
If they target someone within the first minutes of play then immunity can’t save them?
Or does it work the other way.

We have to guess who the targeted to block the action with immunity?

mate, once immunized they canNOT recruit the player EVER. That is, I am now UNrecruitable. I'm stuck by the Neutrals side.

Had I been targeted BEFORE I was hammered, I would have been recruited instead, and immunization on me would have failed. Since that didn't happen, then I'm now 100% Neutral for the rest of the game, but 2 others got culted, and

CERB WAS ONE OF THEM.

So, we now likely have 11 recruitable slots (24-(2 CLs+2 recruits+6 TPRs at the start of the game+Dunker & Creature+me))

A50....how would we know whether or not the immunization on you failed?

[Cerberus v666]

So what is the point to immunize then?
If they target someone within the first minutes of play then immunity can’t save them?
Or does it work the other way.

We have to guess who the targeted to block the action with immunity?

mate, once immunized they canNOT recruit the player EVER. That is, I am now UNrecruitable. I'm stuck by the Neutrals side.

Had I been targeted BEFORE I was hammered, I would have been recruited instead, and immunization on me would have failed. Since that didn't happen, then I'm now 100% Neutral for the rest of the game, but 2 others got culted, and

CERB WAS ONE OF THEM.

So, we now likely have 11 recruitable slots (24-(2 CLs+2 recruits+6 TPRs at the start of the game+Dunker & Creature+me))

A50....how would we know whether or not the immunization on you failed?

You shading me is enough evidence.

You've seen me as scum. I'm not so straightforward, you know that. Stop using silly arguments that you know aren't true. Did you receive a message from the moderator informing you that you had been made immune? I want to know where your belief that you were immunized came from. Is it simply the vote, or did you receive independent confirmation?

[Cerberus v666]

I can also do something similar, going forward.

Why did you refuse to be immunized then? :-/

Are you still refusing to be immunized?

Would you do this thing to me in the next 3 minutes?

You might not like it.

Interesting. What about my other questions?

[Cerberus v666]

Meh, this is all dumb, and I'm not going to invest any more effort into what I've been clearly trying to do.

No, A50, I wasn't recruited. I'm a fucking jailkeeper, and I was planning on jailkeeping someone as soon as the day started so that way I could get us to all vote for that person(the person I jailkept yesterday was chickadee, because I wanted her to be guaranteed to not be recruited(unless they recruited her earlier in the day)); that is why it's bullshit that drealmerz is just arbitrarily starting the day phase.

I'm sharing this because I'm fucking over trying to be coy and guide the "town" without getting myself recruited, so, fuck it. Recruit me cults, if it's possible to do so(idk if it is), and your chances of winning increase pretty majorly because I can both deny the other cult from recruits, and also keep threats to you from acting.

Chickadee, if your thing can keep me from being recruited, you should probably do it if you see this post within a few minutes after I made it, unless you trust that i can't be recruited because I'm not one of those things that are explicitly outlined as being recruitable.

[Cerberus v666]

I wanted to use my jailkeep on jay btw, thus what I said earlier about being 99% certain Jay was not able to be culted, but then all the crap with the pause still going on happened, and fucked up that entire plan by making my action not count.

[Cerberus v666]

Well you shouldn't use your Jailkeeper on me because I used my shit on Chickadee, Porken, and Vecna.

That actually means I *should* use it on you, because you already took your action, and since actions resolve in the order they were submitted, I could now jailkeep you WITHOUT preventing your actions from resolving.

Which is why I told Chickadee to use her recruit stopping thing on me within 3 minutes of my previous post, because I was planning on jailkeeping her after she had done so, so that way we could both be guaranteed to be immune, and then I was going to come clean with all the stuff I just posted right now out of irritation, so we could then make one of the two of us guaranteed to not be recruited, and have a way to ensure the cult couldn't swoop in and recruit our immunization target every day.

[Cerberus v666]

Well you COULD do that if I wasn't specifically the Sonic Transducer, Cerberus.

Which is relevant...why?

[Cerberus v666]

Because it holds priority and, if successful, makes the people I target immobilized and unable to do their action REGARDLESS of the order of the action sent.

That....that isn't relevant? That isn't a reason to not jailkeep you now. My action will still be happening after yours, and thus won't prevent yours from occurring...and will keep you safe...

...

Also, it sounds like your ability only cares about when your targets submitted their actions, NOT when actions that target you are submitted.

[Cerberus v666]

Let me be specific then, Cerberus. It prevents a player from preforming an action during the CYCLE. That means, with the exceptions of things like what happened to Dunker and Creature, and since it all occurs during the play phase, my action makes that target irrelevant.

So yeah, you could target me with no Ill effects, but I don't think someone with the rolename "Sonic Transducer" is a virgin type in the flavor of the game, so I'm probably unrecruitable already.

Well, I'm literally an elevator.

So.

Sure, we're not virgin types.

That doesn't mean, as inanimate objects, that we can't just be USED by someone.

...

@A50: nice job ignoring the more important things going on right now.

[Cerberus v666]

BTW, I get that you're catching up, but damnit your comments are so out of place. So irritating.

[Cerberus v666]

*sigh*

And that, Jay, is why, once Chickadee made it OBVIOUS they had an action to take, I was only going to jailkeep them if they had taken their action already.

:-/

pedit: What an assumption to make A50. Like, seriously. I've only played in one game with recruiting, mastins Gistou, and recruited individuals DID NOT lose their abilities in that game.

[Cerberus v666]

BTW, I get that you're catching up, but damnit your comments are so out of place. So irritating.

Knowing you, I probably wouldn't fully trust you before you actually flip. Remember when I pegged you for Scum in Varsoon's anonymous game? remember how you still managed to turn the tables and wash my brain?

Knowing JAY I know he can be as deceitful as a leaf fish, while he looks as innocent as a little kitten. (Example delayed due to bad transmission).

If you two have combined forces in a PT, I fear that there'll be no stopping you.

I'd very much rather lose WITH you than lose TO you this time around

. BOTH of you.

That attitude is why like half of why I don't feel like playing anymore, especially after SU2. Uphill struggle to ever accomplish anything with the people I like playing with because of my super effective scum games that I don't even win. :-/

I don't know Jay at all. I targeted them because they were vocal and I viewed them as unlikely to have been recruited, and I knew they weren't going to oppose me pushing for them since they had been their own advocate the day before(unlike chickadee, who, had she just NOT ARGUED AGAINST HERSELF BEING IMMUNIZED, would now be free to act without worrying about people blocking her. :-/)

[Cerberus v666]

Ugh.

A50: Why does cult me do what I did yesterday? Look at my posts with regards to chickadee. Note that I told Chickadee to not take any actions, unless she had unlimited shots of it, AND that I was pushing for her to be our immunization target because I was confident she was the optimal choice.

Do you think cultleader me planned on fake claiming jailkeeper? Do you think jailkeeper me ended up recruited, and is now outing himself as a jailkeeper instead of working to keep his cultleader alive(because hey, they could totally recruit at the start of the day and then I jailkeep them and BOOM, they can't get shot)? Do you think I got recruited, and am now a VT, and am still making claims about being a jailkeeper unprompted for no fucking reason?

[Cerberus v666]

pedit: What an assumption to make A50. Like, seriously. I've only played in one game with recruiting, mastins Gistou, and recruited individuals DID NOT lose their abilities in that game.

That was NOT a CULT game. (Click the link to go to the wikipage)

Quote:"At Night, it can recruit players into the Cult; these players henceforth

lose their previous role identities

and become Cultists"

I know you are going to argue further, so I also found you the wokipage for cultist, and I quote:"A Cultist is a player that has been recruited into a Cult by a Cult Leader.

They have since lost the abilities they had before recruitment

."

Is this still an unfounded assumption??

Yes.

You know why?

Because we're playing in a theme game, NOT a Normal.

The moderator is under no obligation to create roles in accordance with the definitions outlined by the wiki, and assuming they are doing so is foolish.

[Cerberus v666]

Pretty sure Varsoon doesn't use the wiki for his game design.

...

[Cerberus v666]

A50, the second part outlines EVERY possible situation, including me being recruited and remaining a jailkeeper, and me just being recruited and becoming a vt. None of those lines actually make sense with the actions I've been taking.

Regarding Jay's role: Seems perfectly reasonable, assuming it only blocks 5 times. That means that they can basically sweep a chunk of the players and clear them of being the cult leader, which is what Jay did yesterday, BUT it doesn't let them directly identify the leader without multiple sweeps. I don't agree with their decision to limit the set of players they're sweeping though, and the role would make *more* sense if it had an absolute use limit, rather than an absolute blocking limit.

So, yeah, not impossible. Possibly ridiculous though.

[Cerberus v666]

@Cerberus, who did you jailkeep yesterday and when during the play phase was it? If it was right at the start / very close to the start then I think we should vote to immunise that player since it would be unlikely they were recruited yesterday.

Chickadee, on Fri Feb 02 at 10:10 am, MST.

Basically, at the same time as I made this post proposing we immunize her. Not super early in the day, but I expected her to be a low enough priority target for culting simply because she's an obvious target that I found it likely she'd still be unrecruited.

Oh.

I didn't know, Sensei. Carry on.

You. I like you.

<3

I'm almost willing to vote for you for this reason alone, but...not quite.

So, out of the people who are here, the only ones who I expect to be both useful and capable of communicating their points in a fashion understandable to others are A50, Varsoon, Vecna,Gamma, and Chickadee. The ones who I expect to make sense most of the time are Varsoon, Vecna, Gamma, and Chickadee. The ones in that set who won't be super biased, consciously or not, are Varsoon, Vecna, and Chickadee.

I think Varsoon and Vecna are both crazy pretty often. I think that leaves me with just Chickadee as someone who is rational, useful and communicative.

Is that a good enough reason to make Chickadee immune? I think so.

VOTE: Vote: Chickadee

[Cerberus v666]

Cerb, I looked and didn't see it. Have you used your jail keep yet today? Sorry if I missed it while skimming.

Not something I'm going to state, because as I said, I'm done trying to use that power to allow the "town" to safely immunize people since they're apparently too incompetent to listen to the advice of someone who they were willing to go out of their way to ensure remained on their side.

I'm happier having the cult simply know that my ability exists, and that if they want to maximize their chance of successfully recruiting, they should do it earlier in the day, so we don't need to worry about them messing with our immunizations at the last minute.

[Cerberus v666]

Because it holds priority and, if successful, makes the people I target immobilized and unable to do their action REGARDLESS of the order of the action sent.

Let me be specific then, Cerberus. It prevents a player from preforming an action during the CYCLE. That means, with the exceptions of things like what happened to Dunker and Creature, and since it all occurs during the play phase, my action makes that target irrelevant.

So yeah, you could target me with no Ill effects, but I don't think someone with the rolename "Sonic Transducer" is a virgin type in the flavor of the game, so I'm probably unrecruitable already.

I think what we can conclude from this is that instead of killing roles we have a shit tone of roleblocking roles.

Like Jesus Jay, how come you can immobilise 3 people at once?

Because of the specfic nature of how my immobilization works. It doesn't stop someone from being recruited, because I had targeted Almost, Dunker, AND Screenplay last cycle.

My Roleblocking ability is more of an investigative kind.

OKAY, since I've been explaining my role little by little, this is the final part of it.

My ability is successful ONLY if they have an ability to block, and I can only do this up to five times. That's why I've been doing three a day so far even though technically I could do five.

That's how I know Screen, Almost, and Dunker aren't the cult leaders since they had no actions. for me to block, and also why I said I'm a type of investigative.

Because I get the words "action successful", not who it was successful on, I think. If I did all five and it came up as "1 time successful", I legit have no idea which one of those was the one who I blocked.

That's why I'm doing three at a time, so the odds are in my favor and I can reason which of them was blocked.

And Chickadee, This will confirm you do in fact have an ability for the next cycle.

This is everything we know about this ability. Nothing about it indicates those who were targeted have any protections on them.

[Cerberus v666]

@chickadee: Is there value in you telling us a minimum number for how many more vig shots you have? Or rather, is there HARM in it. I can imagine there being value in terms of us knowing how heavily we have to lean on roleblocking/protectives versus hoping for awesome vig shots, but I'm uncertain if it hurts us more than helps us.

[Cerberus v666]

I've asked plenty about my role.
As far as I know, I have not been explicitly told in my role or through PM answers about my role that I am immune to recruitment.
I've assumed I am, so I tried to bait recruits for awhile, but, eh, couldn't care less anymore.

Yep. That's about where I was when I claimed my role, and it's why I actually forgot about this game and didn't check it for...like...the longest period of time I've ever gone without checking a mafia game.

[Cerberus v666]

Why is town morale so damn low? Sure, most of us are in the dark, but we are in a good position (I think).

We are now aware that we will all get the following information / have the following power every day:

- We can vote to immunise someone (doesn't mean they are town, but it confirms their alignment as locked).
- 1 or 2 extra people are immunised based on something to do with Creature.
- We learn how many recruits there was by the cults.

On top of this, we know also know that:
- Jay has a PR that could clear people as vanilla but also has a chance of placing suspicion on others whilst blocking potential recruitments in the process.
- Chickadee is a vig so can kill the scummies. (Jay blocking her is good and bad, bad because no kill, good because Chick's role claim either guarantees Porken and Vecna as vanilla or narrows the scum search down if Jay gets a successful block).
- Cerberus is a jailkeeper and can prevent recruitments also.
- Only 1 cult was successful in recruiting.
- Several people have also soft claimed some PRs

So, idk, I don't get why everyone is feeling down and powerless. We are in a strong position. Our power may not be our vote to lynch people, but we still have the power of our voice. How about we start using that to scum hunt a little more and help the PRs game solve?

Because even if you're winning, if you're not having fun there's no value in the game...and I, for one, am not having fun.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, something I just thought of:

That update Drealmerz put out? He probably does it after all actions have been taken, so that way the information doesn't inform the actions taken. That's the only rational explanation for doing it partway through the day. He wants it to inform the immunization, but not action submissions. I'ts possible that it happens after x action is submitted as well, or x+y action set, etc.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh hey, look, we just wasted an immunization, assuming that announcement is accurate...and this time the day ended just a few hours later..and last time things went on for like 2 days. So, absolutely no idea what triggers the end of the day.

[Cerberus v666]

1st 2:45 a.m. game start
2nd 10:37 a.m. announcement
4th 11:49 A.M. phase end/13 votes placed
5th 7:50 a.m. real start to next phase,after fake start
7th 7:50 a.m. announcement
7th 10:59 a.m. phase end, without having reached 13 votes.

Does anyone see a pattern there? 48 hours after this phase started there was an announcement, while last time the announcement happened 32 hours after the phase started. Last time, there was just over 48 hours between the announcement nad phase end, which was triggered by votes, indicating that it could have gone on longer in theory, and this time there were 3 hours.

[Cerberus v666]

Did you receive a PM saying you were immune after you were hammered?

NO. I received no confirmation. I also received no recruitment PM so I wasn't targeted to be recruited in the first place. And I've asked if I could still be recruited after having been immunized and the answer was once immunized I could never be recruited anymore.

So, if that announcement is accurate and only one person was recruited, either someone who is naturally immune was targeted, chickadee is the cult leader or was targeted, and that's all we can tell.

This is assuming everyone is telling the truth about their roles and actions.

[Cerberus v666]

Did you receive a PM saying you were immune after you were hammered?

NO. I received no confirmation. I also received no recruitment PM so I wasn't targeted to be recruited in the first place. And I've asked if I could still be recruited after having been immunized and the answer was once immunized I could never be recruited anymore.

So, if that announcement is accurate and only one person was recruited, either someone who is naturally immune was targeted, chickadee is the cult leader or was targeted, and that's all we can tell.

This is assuming everyone is telling the truth about their roles and actions.

Towniest thing you've posted all game. I can't explain why, but this one post is the only one that ave me town!vibes from you, Cerb.

Maybe you should try to post more like this and less about the mechanical stuff??

That IS a mechanical post.

And...I don't ever TRY to be townie. I might try to be scummy, but never townie. Any overt attempts at towniness in the past were likely orchestrated by Drixx while we were hydraing, and he was probably the one who made the post.

[Cerberus v666]

Why are we still paused then? :-/

[Cerberus v666]

Please stop artificially extending the length of this game by making us waste time talking during a useless phase, when there's nothing to actually talk about because(as Varsoon has been saying) nobody has any agency.

[Cerberus v666]

Welp, if Porkens ever

flips

as a recruited PR then we know who their cult leader is :3

If we had any FLIPS we wouldn't be in this mess we're in, now would we?

Only 3 out of 24 flips are of any value to us. Other ones might just confirm peoples claimed PR's, which is pretty much worthless.

[Cerberus v666]

Yeah, I was kinda hoping that Chickadee being a vig would mean that there were more killing roles. If all actions have been resolved, then obviously not :/

All actions resolved = any alignment change has been PM'd to the respective player and they have been added to their respective cult PT.

TOWN though won't know THE RESULTS of their actions until we're back in play phase. If someone died they were probably notified that they're dead and should not post anymore. However, their killer will only learn of it when play resumes.

You, sir, are making a bunch of assumptions again...

[Cerberus v666]

Alight listen up. Fortunately for town, and unfortunately for the Moderator, he screwed up. I know something I shouldn't have gotten. I got a PM titled "success" even though it was deleted, so with that I CAN say that someone has an ability that I COULD'VE blocked.

And before you call out my "but you said your action took priority!", I had to ask questions about my role, and the "cycle" comment was actually flavor text, because my role does follow the queue just like the rest of you.

I made the mistake of thinking it didn't.

So I'm going to assume that Chickadee's action is the one I almost "succeeded" in blocking, but she did send the action first so it was voided.

The bolded(assuming ones role works in a certain way, when it doesn't) is the worst thing a PR can do in a game, so I recommend you take the time to clarify anything that appears special about any role you may receive in any future games.

[Cerberus v666]

Timewarp doesn't even have an Avatar. I don't trust him.

Do you trust me?

[Cerberus v666]

This game got me so pooter peeved about game design and moderation that I ended just breaking down and writing a guide to modding instead of posting a bunch.
If ya'll need me, I'll be around, but I don't think I can contribute anything worth a damn to the game as it stands.

Where is this guide of yours?

[Cerberus v666]

Hey Drealm, you should read this:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=75028

[Cerberus v666]

@Gamma: Well, I know Virgin = Vanilla = no abilities (Remember: Vanilla could also be goon/ww in other games, so it's a basic role with no abilities and could be on any alignment).

What I thought was only virgins can be recruited (as per the first announcement). Now I'm no longer sure because NSG managed to plant the seeds of doubt in my mind about the identity of the announcer, and thus the motive behind their announcements.

First of all, we KNOW that virgins are not the only recruitables.

The sample PM's clearly lay out that the transylvanians can be recruited, and the mod later clarified that BOTH those pm's are used in this game.

The only possible exception is if virgin is being used to refer to the transylvanians as well.

[Cerberus v666]

- A VOICE IS HEARD THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE CASTLE -

As we are nearing the end of our "PLAY" phase, I would like to inform all of you that only Virgins may be recruited, the number of you totaling 16 (man you guys need to get laid).

For the leaders of our groupie packs, I would like to inform you that those virgins may be found by searching for those who have a big, red "V" scrawled on their foreheads with lipstick.

Finally, I would like to announce that Creature and Dunkerdoodles have recently been spotted sneaking out of the toolshed out back - hair and clothes all askew Perhaps they should erase the V?

Virgin count: 14

- THE SAME VOICE IS HEARD AGAIN THROUGHOUT THE CASTLE -

It's time once again to recount the events of the last PAUSE, as we near the end of today's PLAY.

On last update, we had 14 virgins remaining. That number has decreased further! For one of you has become a groupie!

And oh, what's this? Creature with yet another conquest? What a slut! Creature has come out of the greenhouse, towing both Porkens and Varsoon! A lot of firsts are happening

Virgin Count: 11

Unless you find these posts NSFW, you can't blame the moderator. In addition, mentioning "orgies" is not something which is considered nsfw by, well, anyone I can think of.

So what content, exactly, are you considering NSFW here?

[Cerberus v666]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=6470 << the rules.

There's a bit about not posting "adult" content outside of the Speakeasy, but no definition for "adult content" exists...but for some reason I don't think they meant references to virginity, utilization of the term "deflower" to describe losing ones virginity, or mentioning the existence or orgies and threesomes.

[Cerberus v666]

Can we have a comprehensive list of confirmed immunized & claimed PRs plz?

Confirmed immunized: none.
Claimed immunized, based on our votes: A50
Claimed immunized, based on our votes+the messages: A50, Porkens, Creature, Dunkerdoodles, Varsoon

PRs
Cerb - Jailkeeper
Chickadee-3 shot Vig+something else
Jay - quintuple roleblocker investigative, unsure if the ability will roleblock 5x or if it's only usable 5x

I think someone else claimed something else too, but I don't remember.

[Cerberus v666]

Will only roleblock successfully five times is the exact wording. Unlimited attempts otherwise.

Can target up to x people, where x is the number of successes remaining? And will it tell you that you had y successes in the set, or simply that you had at least one success?

[Cerberus v666]

Interesting.
What are everyone's thoughts on other PRs/CLs?

Every thought I've had about this game can be found in this thread, and none of it is in depth enough to be worth repeating.

[Cerberus v666]

Are we claiming now?

Sure.

[Cerberus v666]

Interesting.
What are everyone's thoughts on other PRs/CLs?

Every thought I've had about this game can be found in this thread, and none of it is in depth enough to be worth repeating.

I know, but perhaps it would re-energize the thread if we tried to talk through the game so far.

A whole bunch of talking about setup spec and being coy about roles.

Then some messages about virgins and this and that and complaining a lot.

And then people started outing roles and others were like

"hey can someone make a consolidated list" and that didn't really happen and now here we are

.

...

RTFG.

[Cerberus v666]

They're saying that it's not mod info that's guaranteed to be true, which means it should be ignored altogether, unless someone wants to come out and actually claim responsibility for it.

[Cerberus v666]

If there is no truth to it then why the bloody hell does it exist in the first place?

I find it highly improbable that it means nothing.

Town Crier perhaps, or it could be an informed townie with town crier powers, OR it could be scum misleading us. *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

And hold up, we’ve jumped over something here.

@Jay, @Chickadee: Jay claims that they received no successful blocks, so why didn’t Chickadee’s kill go through?

@CheekyTeeky, you claimed a doctor role IIRC, did you protect anyone last play phase and if so then who?

No I haven't protected anyone. Tell me who to protect.

...

What?

Elaborate on the reasoning behind your decision to not utilize your ability.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi.

Do we have more than 6 role claims now? I feel like we do, but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. If we do, then we know that the initial 16 virgin claim is false, or that one of those claiming is lying, OR both.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi.

Do we have more than 6 role claims now? I feel like we do, but maybe I haven't been paying enough attention. If we do, then we know that the initial 16 virgin claim is false, or that one of those claiming is lying, OR both.

This is being ignored, and it's the only thing actually useful to figuring out the game which has been said in the last several pages.

[Cerberus v666]

I know whoever Janet is, they very likely have a PR and are unlikely to claim it.
That's pretty much all my role is, though, besides probably being immune to getting culted.

I wouldn't expect Janet to be immune to being culted.

[Cerberus v666]

Can we have a comprehensive list of confirmed immunized & claimed PRs plz?

Confirmed immunized: none.
Claimed immunized, based on our votes: A50
Claimed immunized, based on our votes+the messages: A50, Porkens, Creature, Dunkerdoodles, Varsoon

PRs
Cerb - Jailkeeper
Chickadee-3 shot Vig+something else
Jay - quintuple roleblocker investigative, unsure if the ability will roleblock 5x or if it's only usable 5x

I think someone else claimed something else too, but I don't remember.

3.

plus inferno claiming that thing
plus time warp who is dead now

So that's 5.

Varsoon is Brad, who may or may not count.

Anyone else claim who I've missed so far?

[Cerberus v666]

With gamma's post, we're up to at least 8 roles, 9 if we include the likely, and unclaimed, Janet. If we assume Janet and Brad both count as virgins(which would make sense), then we still have *7* roles claimed.

Pretty sure that the announcement has just been BS from a cult.

[Cerberus v666]

JaydragonKing is replaced by Drixx

Drixx, why would you put yourself through this?

[Cerberus v666]

@A50: chickadee claimed to shoot someone. Jay claimed to have submitted their role block action on chickadee after chickadee has submitted their kill. No kill occurred.

Possibilities:

Chickadee was lying.
Jay was lying.
Jay was blocked.
Chickadees target was protected/invulnerable.

Only one of those options makes jay/drixx a liar.

[Cerberus v666]

@Drixx: It wasnt obvious to anyone when first stated, because Jay originally said their block did not care about the order in which actions were submitted. At some point Jay said they were wrong about that(unsure if that was before or after that phase ended), as well as(after the phase ended) telling us that they had accidentally received a "success" notification from Drealm, leading them to believe that they submitted their action after chickadee, but drealm messed up and thought they had submitted it before. There is no proof of when these things were submitted, and no statements have been made with regards to the timing of actions.

Also...you are not known to be unrecruitable. Yes, there is some cause to think you might be, but that's wholly due to the announcements of unknown provenance.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: Boonskies

[Cerberus v666]

If I'm suuuuuch a chore to be around, why don't you just lynch me, then?
Oh, wait, you can't, sucks to suck.

Spend another 60 pages speculating in the dark about a game three people are actually capable of playing. IF you end up actually wanting advice on how to win this or worthwhile input from my end, I'll be around, but I'm not going to be a part of the masturbatory peanut gallery that is the entire going-ons of the usual 'play' phase thread.

Three people?

Which three?

[Cerberus v666]

I don't think Janet was a starting cult member since in the film Janet is a traditional woman of the time but then is essentially converted to the transexuals as she discovers the joy of sex. Besides, surely Janet's role would mention something about recruiting people? Creature seems like he was killed by Boon's ability.

Now that we have a groupie flip, that means we can start hunting by association. I Iso'd boon, and with the knowledge of his role, these quotes stuck out to me:

If I’m recruited, it’s best to recruit me early.

Whoever recruits me will win, though.

I ain’t afraid of killing roles either.

All i know is if I keep my abilities after getting recruited, ah man, that’s so cool. But for that full effect to be there, I need to be recruited early. My objective is to make sure I win, and with alignment changes, one has to take that into consideration.

So do abilities go away if recruited?

You wanna kill me, Chickadee?

I think you do.

You’ll probably die if you do, though.

In both phases 1 and 2, boonskiies said it would be best to recruit him early. He had no mention of this from play 3 onwards. Is it safe to assume that he was recruited during phase 2 to be culted from pause 2 onwards? Also kinda gutted we didn't spot this change in attitude.

Furthermore, he threatened that Chickadee would die if he did, could Chickadee have possibly been a target that was unsuccessful? That would make sense to me, if he became cult on phase 2 then, in theory, he'd have 2 targets by now (phase 4). Creature was obviously one; a scummy one at that since he was always mentioned in the flavour messages. Chickadee would also have been a good choice if Boon's cult felt threatened by her killing powers.

So is anyone going to claim that they either protected Chickadee this phase or roleblocked Boon within the last 2 phases? Because if the answer to either of those 2 questions is yes, I think we can prove for certain that Chickadee is not aligned with Boon. Furthermore, it would also prove that his cult felt threatened by Chickadee, which means we could look towards the people Chickadee voiced as potential targets for cult members.


Another thing Boon's death has answered is: yes, PRs can be recruited. (Unless you're playing dumb like A50 and think that Janet is a cult leader).

I jailkept Boon during last play phase, immediately before I voted for them, so they were recruited prior to when I posted my vote for them.

[Cerberus v666]

OH! So it's something that cannot be easily proven to be a lie. OK. I'm also a Motion Detector, and I detected Motion on Creature on Phase 1, Boons Phase 2, erm.. (let me go check who claimed to have submitted an action or has been blocked in the subsequent 2 phases and get back to you)

And what was the result of your motion detect on boon? And how long after the day started did you submit it? Was it before or after Boon had spoken in thread for that phase?

[Cerberus v666]

I'm shot Varsoon, btw, in case anyone was wondering what order that all happened in. I have 1 shot left, and I don't think I'll be using it tomorrow. I'll be using my other ability. Just not sure on whom yet.

You're a kind woman, putting that poor man out of his misery.

[Cerberus v666]

I jailkept Boon during last play phase

I think this probably saved your own life.

Elaborate.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, you think I kept chickadee alive, not myself.

Because he threated Chickadee, not me...

[Cerberus v666]

So, I'm not a jailkeeper Drixx?

[Cerberus v666]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

[Cerberus v666]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

They don't. Normal, more solid reads, are based on train analysis. At least that's what I usually try to do. We can't analyze most of the trains and generally other rules apply. So all we're left with is a feeling. That makes this game difficult. And the lack of participation enforcement and deadlines makes it s-l-o-o-o-w. Nico has a grand total of one post and Cheeky's last participation is more than two weeks ago. In a normal game they would have been modkilled or lynched for lurking long ago.

So you're saying that nobody is utilizing any sort of rational system to determine who they believe is or isn't trustworthy?

[Cerberus v666]

Takes Varsoon's dead body and saws it in half

fuck you

...

That seems unnecessary. Why?

[Cerberus v666]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

They don't. Normal, more solid reads, are based on train analysis. At least that's what I usually try to do. We can't analyze most of the trains and generally other rules apply. So all we're left with is a feeling. That makes this game difficult. And the lack of participation enforcement and deadlines makes it s-l-o-o-o-w. Nico has a grand total of one post and Cheeky's last participation is more than two weeks ago. In a normal game they would have been modkilled or lynched for lurking long ago.

So you're saying that nobody is utilizing any sort of rational system to determine who they believe is or isn't trustworthy?

No, I can't say that. I don't know how rational the others are. I'm saying that my usual rational rating system failed in this game and that I am basing my readings mostly on feeling. And I guess I'm not the only ones, when I look at the posts that seem to give readings mostly by instinct. How about you? Do you have rational readings or do you play by feeling too?

I never play by feelings. If a situation arises where I have no rational justification for the way I feel, it means I just need to put more time into examining the game and the situation to understand what the root cause of my subconscious read is.

Every action and vote I've performed in this game after the first day has been almost 100% random, because there is no rational basis upon which I can make my decisions. The only bit of reason I've used is in determining who to EXCLUDE as a possibility for immunization or jailkeeping, which has essentially been: Have they claimed a PR/character that makes it possible that they can't be recruited? If so, do not jailkeep or attempt to immunize, because scum won't want to risk recruiting someone unrecruitable.

[Cerberus v666]

What about this game makes those who are stating scum reads on others believe that the normal means by which they would identify someone as scum or town apply?

Who said I (or anyone else) was using normal means or methods?

The verbiage being used. People are referring to people as being "scummy" or "townie" etc, when clearly you can't use those metrics in a game like this.

[Cerberus v666]

I really hope you shot someone Chickadee, since you having shots left is, if that "mysterious voice" is telling the truth, the only reason this game is still going on that we're aware of.

[Cerberus v666]

Never thought I'd come back to 4 pages.

Well, I have one shot left. I suppose I'll take it.

Please do. That should end the game one way or another, barring further kills or alignment changing possibilities.

[Cerberus v666]

For the record, I don't care who you vote for because I'm convinced that the success or failure of any faction will be decided by chickadees shots, not this vote. This vote is just the way to force the resolution of the shot.

So we should just fucking do it and get this shit over with.

[Cerberus v666]

MM. So 2 deaths, without 2 claimed sources of kills?

[Cerberus v666]

I read most games. I've stopped reading this one mostly. I might read it while we're on play, but probably not.

[Cerberus v666]

Is this over yet?

And yes, this game is dragging because we have no information, no way of gaining any information, and thus no agency.

[Cerberus v666]

Anything going on here yet?

[Cerberus v666]

So, wanna call it a draw? Not like if the cults all claim we can do anything to them anyways. ^^

[Cerberus v666]

Math, this is a summary of the Chickadee case:

Chickadee shot a claimed PR.
This PR happened to be lovers with another PR that had been recruited.
This means we now have confirmation that PRs CAN be recruited.
A cult discovering this information would want to immediately recruit Chickadee since she was the strongest claimed PR.
If a cult already knew PRs could be recruited, they would have already recruited Chickadee since she was the strongest claimed PR.
We can conclude that Chickadee isn't in the same cult as Boon since she caused Boon to die.

So basically:

- If a cult already knew PRs could be recruited, they would have recruited Chickadee immediately after discovering this.
- The fact that she shot a claimed PR would suggest this is the case.

- If she wasn't culted when she took that shot, the discovery that PRs can definitely be recruited would mean that she would be very valuable to cults due to possessing kills.
- The opposite cult to Boon's would have full confidence that Chickadee isn't already recruited since she caused Boon to die.


Either way you look at it, Chickadee has almost definitely been culted - most likely by the opposite cult to Boon's since they'd have to be absolute morons to not cult her after she made that shot.

Mutant, why does this matter?

Really?

Who fucking cares?

She culted based on your reasoning. What are you going to do about it? Have you examined the rest of her ISO to determine a likely leader? If you haven't, this is pretty much useless information.

Oh, and I'll share this because I think drealmerz might think I'm playing against my wincon by doing it: I haven't bothered submitting a jailkeep in DAYS.

At first because i didn't want to risk keeping Chickadees vig from going through, and then after that because I failed to see a benefit to it in the game state, with the shitty ruleset we're playing under where I'd never know if my ability actually did anything.

(I think it might be possible that like, I'm a cult leader and just don't know it, and that's why the game is taking so long, because I haven't been using my action that I think is a jailkeep, but is actually a recruit). *shrug*

[Cerberus v666]

Also, this is a thing, but I haven't been recruited, so, cults probably can't recruit non-humanoid things.

Which means Chickadee has probably not been culted.

[Cerberus v666]

You know what would make this game more interesting? A counter telling how many each team has. I think it would increase engagement.

That and lynching.

YES! KNOWING SOMETHING WOULD BE AMAZING.

Also, this is a thing, but I haven't been recruited, so, cults probably can't recruit non-humanoid things.

This is interesting. I'm assuming your role PM doesn't explicitly say this?

No, it doesn't explicitly say it. It makes sense though, and fits in with my slot not having been recruited yet, and the Janet slot ending up recruited. As I said on D1, my role is *probably* the most powerful thing a cult v cult team could have on it's side(other than an unlimited vig), so I can't think of any reason other than immunity for not being recruited.

[Cerberus v666]

Mutant, why does this matter?

I was just explaining my reasoning for people that were asking...

Mkay.

And do you have anything to say about the fact that I haven't been recruited, as a non-humanoid PR, and how that relates to your conclusions?

[Cerberus v666]

Apparently despite all prior attempts failing, someone has complained that I'm not using my ability or something. Someone who has reason to expect I won't think you're a cult give me some targets please.

What ability is this? I haven't paid *any* attention to this in awhile.

[Cerberus v666]

Maybe cults really just have been trying desperately to try and recruit PR's only to get burned in the effort.

It's quite possible that some PRs are immune to conversion, but I find it strange that that isn't stated in the role PM. Mine implied that I could be recruited (by saying that I lose one of my powers if I'm recruited, which wouldn't make sense if recruitment wasn't possible). So perhaps it's the other way round and one is only recruitable if the role PM says so. ... We'll probably only know once the game ends.

My role PM simply tells me that I'm an elevator, and I can jailkeep people.

Nothing else.

Not even a win con.

(which is why I was suggesting maybe I'M actually a cult leader!)

[Cerberus v666]

Apparently despite all prior attempts failing, someone has complained that I'm not using my ability or something. Someone who has reason to expect I won't think you're a cult give me some targets please.

So far no town-aligned investigative PR has stepped forward with any information. So probably none exist. I'm not going to use my active power ever, since I don't see any point in using it. So you are welcome to block me all you want, but it would be a waste of your power. And you probably can't block Vecna, since regular powers only are processed at 'Pause' - i.e. after the Time Warp is already processed. The claimed killing PR (Chickadee) is in cult hands and according to herself out of kill-shots by now but can roleblock too. So you might block her, just to be on the safe side. Or, since we don't know what we are doing anyhow, you might as well exhaust all your shots in one Pause and block everyone. Then you at least have a chance of blocking one or both CLs and preventing a conversion, I guess.

So, this would be my advice: either block Chick or block everyone.

Maybe you should address what I said earlier about how unlikely it is that Chickadee is actually culted, given that she's a pack of dogs.

[Cerberus v666]

Maybe you should address what I said earlier about how unlikely it is that Chickadee is actually culted, given that she's a pack of dogs.

A pack of dogs can be trained, so I don't buy her claim not to be recruitable. And her shooting Porkens seemed very scummy to me.

...

You're missing the point.

I'm an unlimited jailkeeper, the sort that prevents ALL actions from being done to or by my target.

I can be used to 1) keep members of their cult alive, 2) stop recruit attempts by targeting likely recruits, and 3) stop ALL recruit attempts by repeatedly targeting the other cult leader.

Why wouldn't I be recruited by either cult if it were possible?

If it's not possible to recruit me, why would it be possible to recruit her?

[Cerberus v666]

Lift, the same standard of assumptions applies to EVERY consideration we can make about this game. You have essentially NO reason to think non-human flavor PRs are recruitable, and evidence(if you believe me, and Venmar) that in at least some cases they're (likely) not.

There is objectively MORE reason to believe that non-human flavor PRs are immune to recruitment than to believe they are vulnerable to it.

And no, my role does not state I'm immune to recruitment, as I've said already.

[Cerberus v666]

Or maybe elevator is a fakeclaim to protect Chickadee from the "oh so dangerous public opinion"

I literally claimed this shit on D1.

[Cerberus v666]

Or maybe elevator is a fakeclaim to protect Chickadee from the "oh so dangerous public opinion"

I literally claimed this shit on D1.

Yes, I remember you did. But you're still basing your 'read' that Chick is town on pure conjecture, making an assumption about rules based on another assumption about your own role. That's very shaky. If you, however, try to look at what Chickadee did and wrote - i.e. try to base your read on behaviour, not on meaningless assumptions - then you will have to agree that she looks very scummy. I don't have any other explanation for her choice of targets and neither has she.

But maybe things aren't immune to conversion either? Maybe that is just pretense on your part and you have become culted long ago?

Doesn't really matter since we can do nothing about Chick being cult or anone else. We can just keep voting and hoping that the game is over soon.

Had I been culted long ago, I wouldn't keep posting because you'd all be powerless to stop me. *shrug*

I disagree with your position that behaviorally what she's done is scummy. *shrug* If I felt it had any merit, then I would have addressed it. However, it doesn't, so I just wanted to correct the assumption's you've made based on the knowledge I have about the game state.

[Cerberus v666]

Oh, also, I don't have a read on Chick. A read implies that based on behavioral things, I think x. This isn't behavioral, it's mechanical.

I KNOW that it is highly probable that unless both cults are completely incompetent, Chickadee was not culted, because I haven't been.

[Cerberus v666]

Or maybe cults prefer safe numbers, over high profile subjects that couldve either already been culted by the other party, or might be prone to eating bullits.

Either way, im just being argumentative for the sake of arguing. Because, boredom.

Your first point is a valid one. ^^ Also possible that after the discussions that happened at the start of the game about likely uncultable people, they decided to not risk going after me/us at that time.

Still pretty sure that doing so would have been a clear sign of incompetence though, since it would have given them the best evidence they could get(if they put in their attempt early enough in the day) about whether PR's like myself were or were not recruitable, which would inform all their future decisions. Short term risk, long term gain.

[Cerberus v666]

Do we not have any more vigs? How are we supposed to win this?

I think we, and both cults, are meant to systematically apply our immunization and culting to every slot in the game, until only immune neutrals and cultists remain.

[Cerberus v666]

A mass claim? So there are still PR's unclaimed out there?

[Cerberus v666]

Hmm, I could have sworn Nancy was immunized, but apparently not.

[Cerberus v666]

immunity vote #4

-

Nancy Drew 39 - 11 - northsidegal, Porkens, Srceenplay, Gamma Emerald, TheGoldenParadox, mutantdevle, Ms Columbo, Almost50, Lifthrasil, Chickadee, Nancy Drew 39,

Venmar - 1 - Venmar,

Vecna - 1 - SnarkySnowman,

-

it takes 11 votes on 1 player to attempt to make them immune to recruitment

^

Already immunized.

[Cerberus v666]

Vecan has been elevated, so sure, immunize him.

VOTE: Vecna

[Cerberus v666]

Because we haven't tried to immunize them yet, and I just made them immune to all actions and unable to act. We can immunize, and move on systematically.

[Cerberus v666]

Interesting. I'll clarify with drealm.

[Cerberus v666]

Because we haven't tried to immunize them yet, and I just made them immune to all actions and unable to act. We can immunize, and move on systematically.

Good. And you said, that you will be informed once you run out of jailing shots, right?

There's no indication that my ability has limited shots, I expect this to be an option every day.

[Cerberus v666]

I still kinda feel like the immunize on me is a waste.....cult probably already tried to recruit me, and realized it failed, so now they wanna waste our attempt by putting it on someone already immune. Not that I really care but, eeeh.

Also, if Cerb really did jail me there wont be a phaseshift from me, so u might as well push a vote through really quickly to get it over with.

I really really did jail you.

[Cerberus v666]

You could use this to test my jail keep claim? Only value in extending day.

[Cerberus v666]

Still waiting for a response from dream.

[Cerberus v666]

VOTE: TGP

Yep, as counterintuitive as it is, what chickadee said is correct, which makes me feel bad for assuming earlier. :/ Pretty shit play by me. Sorry.

[Cerberus v666]

Nancy Drew

Definitely not immunized, went to double check my actions and I elevated her before it.

[Cerberus v666]

Nancy Drew

Definitely not immunized, went to double check my actions and I elevated her before it.

How is that evrn possible? I got 11 votes and was never recruited.

Vote for yourself, not TGP!

ANd it's because drealm is dumb and made this game so the immunization is treated as a normal action...therefore if you're made immune to actions, y ou're immune to being immunized.

I thought I could jailkeep you to keep you from being recruited, and then we would have time to vote for you. But as a result of my jailkeeping, I just made sure you *wouldn't* be immunized.

Basically, because I was dumb enough to not ask for more information, my primary role usage has been playing against win con this entire game.

:-/

[Cerberus v666]

Nancy Drew

Definitely not immunized, went to double check my actions and I elevated her before it.

How is that evrn possible? I got 11 votes and was never recruited.

Vote for yourself, not TGP!

ANd it's because drealm is dumb and made this game so the immunization is treated as a normal action...therefore if you're made immune to actions, y ou're immune to being immunized.

I thought I could jailkeep you to keep you from being recruited, and then we would have time to vote for you. But as a result of my jailkeeping, I just made sure you *wouldn't* be immunized.n

Basically, because I was dumb enough to not ask for more information, my primary role usage has been playing against win con this entire game.

:-/

But why did you let us waste an hour entire play cycle voting for me?

And why not immunize TGP? Why am I the better option?

Yeah, I can’t wait for this game to end and I really don’t care much how; only that it does.

Eh, fair enough. There is no reason why you're a better option than TGP, other than that the pivot to him may mean cult has recruited elsewhere, and since they thought you weren't recruitable, you wouldn't have been the person they would have attempted to recruit.

[Cerberus v666]

*pivot from him*

[Cerberus v666]

Hope you are well, Nancy!

I see. The weekend has passed and we are no step closer to a successful vote. Srceenplay is stubbornly blocking the vote on TGP and since we are so few players by now, that ALL have to agree on a candidate to get anywhere, this play phase will not end. Also, Cerberus revealed that ALL our immunizations were void. Which means two things: 1) Scum know that now too and can get additional shots at converting us 'immunized' players. 2) The game will take even longer, since all 'immunized' players will have to be re-immunized or converted until the end condition is met.

So, basically we start all over again, only with as slightly worse start for town and all in all we are looking at another three months of nothing happening. I suggested this already twice and some were always supportive, but we didn't get a majority yet: let's abort the game and call it a draw! Perhaps we can do that now?

VOTE: Abort Game!

They weren't ALL void.

...

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? Basically, the ones I bothered voting on EARLY in the game are void. Which I think is just Nancy.

[Cerberus v666]

oh shit, I menat to vote nancy, and I just bolded her name. *sigh*

VOTE: Nancy Drew

Really, Nancy>TGP, for the reasons Chickadee gave.

[Cerberus v666]

well, RIP nancy then I guess.

[Cerberus v666]

initiating suicide bomber on a50 next phase

#Me too, please!

Argh, no! Doesn't work. I'm immortal as long as no one converts me. Please, if we still don't get a majority for aborting the game: someone convert me and THEN someone kill me!

...

Didn't you say you couldn't be recruited?

[Cerberus v666]

Oh right. we made you unrecruitable. ignore me. I'm so far out of the loop on this game, I'm pretty much useless

[Cerberus v666]

Rocky Horrors role isn't filled out...their recruit and/or other actions aren't listed.

[Cerberus v666]

@mutant, I never cared enough about this game to attempt to figure out who cult leaders were, because there was no benefit to doing so.

[Cerberus v666]

you people are fucking stupid

you don't vote in-game to end a game

you PM THE MOD and express your desire - can't you read the fucking rules that I don't respond to shit posed to me in the game thread? why do you think voting to end the game is a function of the game?

I don't know why a listmod was contacted BEFORE YOU CONTACTED ME

but then, most of you are fucking stupid soooo

*shrug*

game over

you all lose

For the record, drealm...if you're actually bothering with reading your game(which, btw, your rule about not responding to in game things is basically simply an excuse to not have to actually moderate your game), then it's pretty ridiculous for you to *not* respond in any way to a clearly expressed desire by a number of players to change the way the game works or end it.

[Cerberus v666]

So, there were 6 kills that were controllable by people who weren't recruited at game start, but one of them was recruitable. In addition, there were *multiple* means by which people could survive kills, and one shot BP on both cult leaders, along with a terrible timing mechanic for action submission.

I don't actually see how the neutrals were ever going to win, which is fine, that probably wasn't the point...but I also don't really see how either cult, without the ability to coordinate, was supposed to win either.

[Cerberus v666]

I mean, I guess people stopped caring about this game, but I'd really like to figure out how to actually make it work...

[Cerberus v666]

Can the cult leaders let me know how big their cults were? The action record is a mess.

[Cerberus v666]

Screenplay would have also been shot. So, after this long ass time, the game was still 9v3v3.

Ridiculous.

[Cerberus v666]

Can the cult leaders let me know how big their cults were? The action record is a mess.

I successfully recruited 4 people but then

Chickabitch

shot my man Boon's lover causing him to die So my cult had 4 players in the end including myself.

The other cult only managed to recruit 2 people.

So, in the end, it was 9v4v3.

Are you good friends with Chickadee and I just don't know it? Because if not, that's not something I'm okay with people saying...

[Cerberus v666]

Also, I'm very disappointed in both cult leaders for never even attempting to recruit me with 9 possible attempts.

[Cerberus v666]

Audience PT? Link?

[Cerberus v666]

NM found it

[Cerberus v666]

So, I'm going to take the time to respond to everything drealm had to say about things I said, to express why he's wrong(and other, stronger things I could say but deleted and replaced with this ambiguous statement)

You should stop doing this. If you're going to make a game where time stamps matter, you need to have a set time when you'll accept the submission of actions, known long in advance, rather than just having action submission become allowable whenever you show up.

I wish players would PM me with things like this so I can engage them about it. Like, I can't even tell what his issue is.

if people knew exactly when actions could be submitted, it'd defeat the whole purpose, people would be setting alarms to get up and be first submitted or whatever, so many issues with that, and is boring/lame and just doesn't work flat out

over the course of the game the idea is that it will mostly be balanced because the switching to Play will just happen at random times, decided by different people, not allowing any pattern or predictability that would allow someone to try and 'work the system' to their advantage

I'm probably going to say this repeatedly, but here's the problem with this: You're essentially exacerbating the "activity" issue in a game like this. Instead of just requiring that people show up at one time, you're asking that they show up ALL the time, if they want their role to feel useful. Both options have problems, but the option you went with is simply inferior, not least because of the other negative mechanical effects that come along with it.

that is why it's bullshit that drealmerz is just arbitrarily starting the day phase.

I don't know why you'd assume it's arbitrary

Because there's no reason to *not* think it's arbitrary? Until the play/pause occurs at a particularly timely/untimely fashion *repeatedly* there's no reason to assume anyone but the moderator is in charge of a fundamental mechanical point like what phase we're in.

okay so it seems like cerb is only upset because he wants to be able to submit his action before other people

well duh, everyone wants that

It's not even that. Going first is great and all, but the problem is that without NAR/clear timings of things, there's no information to be gained from the actions taken. Someone shot at a cult leader, and they didn't die.

Nobody in the game blinked an eye at that, because there's no way to know(without full claiming of all actions taken by everyone, and the timing thereof) what CAUSED the kill to fail. You can't even limit the scenario down to they're BP, they were protected, or I was blocked, because if any of those things happened after you submitted your action(except the BP) it wouldn't have mattered.

This simply exacerbated the existing, underlying issues with the game.

...not impossible. Possibly ridiculous though.

I'm confident it'll all make sense once you see the full picture

No, it doesn't all make sense. As I said EARLY in the game, neutrals must have multiple, nonrecruitable, vigilantes, for them to have any chance at actually winning the game.

Instead you gave them two recruitable vigilantes, while the leaders had a 1 shot bp(should have been a limited BP until killed, with recruitment abilities passing to a designated recruit upon death, or something else, but not a friggin all game long 1 shot bp), and their own kill.

Please stop artificially extending the length of this game by making us waste time talking during a useless phase, when there's nothing to actually talk about because(as Varsoon has been saying) nobody has any agency.

it's not artificial and it's not under my control

you might find pause useless...others might not, especially as the game goes on

DID ANYONE FIND AN EXTENDED PAUSE USEFUL?

I'm convinced that the success or failure of any faction will be decided by chickadees shots,

that would be TERRIBLE game design

HOW DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE THAT THE GAME WOULD BE LIKE THAT?!?!?

seriously thinking I might just cancel the game

I thi more than half the PRs aren't even submitting actions at this point (two cycles now)

Yes, the success or failure of any faction *was* going to be decided by the vigs shots, eventually. Randomize all the important actions of the game, and literally the only thing that would determine wins/losses is shot accuracy from the vigs.

I explained why I wasn't acting in game and above. Nothing to be gained from it.

You know what would make this game more interesting? A counter telling how many each team has. I think it would increase engagement.

That and lynching.

YES! KNOWING SOMETHING WOULD BE AMAZING.

yes, well, I can't help that people are shitty players (looking at you snarky)

This wasn't your fault, except insofar as having the neutrals have only a single source of information and basically relying upon them getting all their information from a source that can't be confirmed...is terrible design. Terrible. Even if Snarky played this all perfectly, there are, again, far too many variables at play for an accurate recruitment counter to be anything more than a very dim light in the darkness.

I'm an unlimited jailkeeper, the sort that prevents ALL actions from being done to or by my target.

I can be used to 1) keep members of their cult alive, 2) stop recruit attempts by targeting likely recruits, and 3) stop ALL recruit attempts by repeatedly targeting the other cult leader.

Why wouldn't I be recruited by either cult if it were possible?

as long as you get the action in before any countering action to yourself or the action you are trying to prevent is submitted

why you haven't been recruited...well, one possible theory is that people aren't very good players

the recruits/attempts have been absolutely baffling...


until vax took over the CL spot from inferno (vax immediately recruited chickadee, successfully)

I did mention that the cult leaders could be incompetent as a possible explanation. I usually find it's better to assume competence on the part of ones enemies however.

Lift, the same standard of assumptions applies to EVERY consideration we can make about this game. You have essentially NO reason to think non-human flavor PRs are recruitable, and evidence(if you believe me, and Venmar) that in at least some cases they're (likely) not.

There is objectively MORE reason to believe that non-human flavor PRs are immune to recruitment than to believe they are vulnerable to it.

And no, my role does not state I'm immune to recruitment, as I've said already.

you know what makes the most sense? to not have it be so easily discernable and have no standard either way, ya?

oh and plus, ummm....it really doesn't make any sense that PRs wouldn't be recruitable...that doesn't have to mean all PRs are though

like wtf?

I SAID NON-HUMAN FLAVOR PR'S.

....

LIKE WTF LEARN TO READ WTF I SAY DREALM.

Literally something you said earlier in that thread that you considered having the game run that way, and then you shit on me expressing the belief that it makes sense for the game to be ran that way.

[Cerberus v666]

To elaborate on the bit about vig shots being terrible design: Yes. I'm aware. You should have realized from that post that I didn't expect much in the way of good design from this game.

[Cerberus v666]

Hi, just read all the roles, and I'm still not sure which roles were the cult leaders.

The role pm's aren't complete.

Rocky Horror and Frank'N'Furter were the cult leaders, based on the submitted actions vs who was assigned each role. However, Rocky Horror does not have his recruit ability, or his kill, listed in the image shared.

[Cerberus v666]

you people are fucking stupid

you don't vote in-game to end a game

you PM THE MOD and express your desire - can't you read the fucking rules that I don't respond to shit posed to me in the game thread? why do you think voting to end the game is a function of the game?

I don't know why a listmod was contacted BEFORE YOU CONTACTED ME

but then, most of you are fucking stupid soooo

*shrug*

game over

you all lose

April 3rd

So, do you really think it is serving your wincon by not using your action? you don't think it is anti-wincon?

You're right. Replace me.

I am very sorry.

I was still here. Not replaced. No replacement seeked.

Now, I did not contact the listmod but would contacting you have made anything happen?

Thank you for modding. I will now take my "fucking stupid" ass out of this thread.

It was not all cool for him to say that to us. As for playing pming the mod; he never bothered to respond to mine; re: the ice storm in my area; so why would I even bother with that?

Nancy, I'm really really sorry that this travesty of a game was one of your first experiences with the theme games we have on site.

[Cerberus v666]

you people are fucking stupid

you don't vote in-game to end a game

you PM THE MOD and express your desire - can't you read the fucking rules that I don't respond to shit posed to me in the game thread? why do you think voting to end the game is a function of the game?

I don't know why a listmod was contacted BEFORE YOU CONTACTED ME

but then, most of you are fucking stupid soooo

*shrug*

game over

you all lose

For the record, drealm...if you're actually bothering with reading your game(which, btw, your rule about not responding to in game things is basically simply an excuse to not have to actually moderate your game), then it's pretty ridiculous for you to *not* respond in any way to a clearly expressed desire by a number of players to change the way the game works or end it.

True. I just finished a game, where the mod was really hands on. After d1, that game had started to tank; due to people being unhappy with the SOD/EOD phases, the lack of a maj, and inactivity, So being proactive, he requested everyone pm him; if they wanted to change that. Things eventually got back on track, because even the VTs could smell the flavour in that game, and it wound up being one of the funnest games I’ve ever played. Of course, we always had a pretty good idea what was going on, and every player felt they had agency. A mod needs to listen to his/her players and help them to really understand their wincon and some idea, of the direction needed to acheive it. I think the idea (Rocky Horror Cult) was great in concept but ineffectively executed.

There was another game, which I wasn’t a part of where people really pretty much beat up on the mod. I felt really bad for him, because he did his best and handled the overwhelming chorus of dissatisfaction with class and a willingness to learn from his mistakes. I know D worked really hard on the concept of this game, but he needs to listen to the players; so he can hopefully learn from his mistake and fix any future design flaws in his games. The fact that he simply insults us and refuses to take any responsibility for the game’s execution; is really sad, for both him and all of the players.

<3

[Cerberus v666]

Awhile back, one of my first interactions on-site with drealmerz included him talking up both his skills at playing the game as well as his ideas for setups.
I recall a deal of frustration at his hubris, but I ended up pocketing that. After all, if drealmerz could prove to be a really great player and moderator, that'd be a boon to the site.
While there are those of you who are saying they've sworn off ever signing up for something Drealmerz runs again, I'm of the mind that I'll sign up for anything he mods.
It's not because I've liked any of his games. Here and in Maplewood Village, there were so many critical parts of the game design and moderation that I fundamentally disagree with.
It's because I want drealmerz to grow into a great moderator.
It's for that reason that I hope Drealmerz is able to take the criticisms levied here and work forward into making an even better game in the future.

Ladies and gentlemen, Varsoon.

Throwing classy and wholesome shade the way only he can. <3

For reals though, conceptually all of Drealmerz games are pretty fucking cool, but (as he says in his PT) he has an obsession with keeping people uninformed about things, and expects them to enjoy not having any idea of what's going on.

*shrug* That's a pretty fundamental flaw to have in your game design philosophy.

[Cerberus v666]

@nancy: I'm really sorry about the jailkeeping. Drealmerz even, in the PT, mentioned me jailkeeping you immediately prior to you being immunized and thought it was me playing against win con...when no, it was just that nowhere in his ruleset did he say that the immunization functions as a normal action for purposes of jailkeep like effects...

I mean, from early on it should have been clear that I thought I could keep people who were probable immunization targets from being vulnerable to a last second cult recruit, and *nobody* else even considered that wasn't a reasonable way to play things(or at least, they didn't mention it).

Obviously, that's my bad for not asking that particular question(especially because I'm the sort of person who always asks a fuckton of questions), but it does show how unintuitive that concept was that nobody actually brought up the idea that my line of play might end up hurting us rather than helping us.

[Cerberus v666]

Was...math not aware that they were in a cult?

I can see that happening.

...