Which is the better antonym for "Conservative"?

[CooLDoG]

I really don't like that both progressive and conservative are value laden terms. On one hand you have an implication of saving what is valuable (conservative) and on the other you have a making the world better (progressive). I don't so much mind the term liberal, but it does not align well with typical US liberals economic thought.

I honestly prefer the terms traditionalist and reformist (or revolutionary. Although almost no US liberals are actual revolutionaries who want to completely destroy the current political system.) It seems to evoke the "old ways best" attitude and the liberal project of changing and adding new policies/programs...

[CooLDoG]

Also, jiffy is correct, there are many "progressive" programs that find their home on the left-wing which are certainly NOT liberal. For instance, there is a good case to be made that the civil rights bill and other non-discrimination acts (which I whole heartedly agree with) are not "liberal" because they actually impose and take away certain freedoms from the system. While it would be hard to argue that they are not progressive.

EDIT;
Actually Conservative/Reformist were the two political factions in ancient Rome for those wondering.

[CooLDoG]

Ooh ooh yeah we can break this down to active and passive freedoms

typically the distinction is made in the form of negative and positive, because freedom is generally considered to be a passive state that one is in regardless.
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/libe ... -negative/

Essentially, conservatives are more about negative liberty, i.e. finding the the minimum of things that you can't do and then allowing people to do whatever beyond that. Liberals tend to want to increase positive liberty of some specific groups, meaning, give them more possibilities of action.

Negative liberty: "you are free if no one is stopping you from doing whatever you might want to do."
Positive liberty: "you must be self-determined, which is to say that you must be able to control your own destiny in your own interests."

EDIT;
Actually Optimates/Populares

Conservative/Reformist

were the two political factions in ancient Rome for those wondering.

I came in here because I was going to answer "sane" thinking I was clever, but someone beat me to it.

you are correct with your edit. However, I always figured that this was what the two main factions were in a defacto sense. Like, the Optimates were for the elite and the Populares were for giving shit to the peasants. But sure, whatever. I think my distinction could still hold overall.

[CooLDoG]

There are also some people who mix the two, like, "freedom is non-domination" or some shit like that. I forget. It has also been a couple of years sense I have touched the literature.

[CooLDoG]

anyone who says vonflare can't troll is wrong.