Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[Sando]

So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect, and you were MY suspect on D1 since forever, so who would have known, I was right, you are scum.

My issue with this is:
a) It assumes Mutant is calling the shots on the scumteam, do we think that's likely and what does it say about his partners?
b) It assumes duckling wasn't PR hunted successfully, putting the NK as NIA for all.

[mutantdevle]

So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect

Explain how you missed this or why you chose to ignore it:

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

Thanks.

[Oxy]

This assumes way too much about the worst's reads. It potentially spews any other scum reads the worst has as town, but at minimum mutantdevle should have considered that the worst has other reads that could have been taken into account when making an nk decision.

Also, mutant basically just confirmed that he should have seen the worst's soft.

So why didn't you see the worst's soft? Do your soft-identifying skills diminish when you are town?

Personally, I think you are assuming more when you claim he was properly scum reading me. I mean, these were the lest 2 posts of his that mentioned me (from a simple CTRL+F)...

Is Piss by virtue of a Korina read?
or did you find his opening towny?

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

pedit: good post...he refuses to do anything townie ://

devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio

Take this as you will.

Though just sayin', he literally fucking says it.

But I suppose the start of the game where he was suspicious of me must be his more accurate reads than what he says here. And I would totally kill him for tarnishing my good ole' townie imposed name.

And, I don't know about you, but I find I don't need to PR hunt when I'm town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I PR hunt as scum, not as town.

Honestly, it's becoming a little frustrating how you're making this accusation against me when you're not even looking at the facts. ('you' is a synonym for Oxy and Pintu here) I'd also like to think I'm more inteligent than basing a night kill off of how someone

used

to read me.

No, your argument asks why pintu would assume that you led the night kill. Which then would assume that the other members of your hypothetical mafia team would have no reason to kill the worst. Why did you assume that the hypothetical mafia team that pintu placed you in would have no reasons to kill the worst, other than his read on you?

The worst's actual reads don't really affect why I think this is scummy from you. Additionally, you knowing that the worst was town reading you, and making the assumption about a lack of motivation for other partners to kill the worst, probably spews that you didn't want to kill him.

This makes two worlds - one where he was killed for being a pr, and one where you argued not to kill him because he town read you, more likely.

I'm still living in the world where he was killed for being a pr, but I think the assumptions you made in your narrative are super weird coming from town.

This, plus the number of town reads I have, makes your scum equity very high.

[mutantdevle]

Why did you assume that the hypothetical mafia team that pintu placed you in would have no reasons to kill the worst, other than his read on you?

Because his whole point that he's making here is that the worst's death means that I am scum...

I'm not assuming anything here, he is literally accusing me of killing the worst for scum reading me.

[Sando]

In other news, we have a hider, and we should have probably done this yesterday, but better late than never. Should we all massclaim who we're gonna "hide" behind tonight?

Quick question though:

@Mod, does the Hide go off if the Mafioso Jailer targets them?

1) Scum can't stop themselves being hid behind (unless above is a "no")
2) Scum can kill two birds, but with a massclaim we're hiding the hider and makes that a crapshoot for them
3) We get some guilties/innocents later.

Problems:
Anyone claiming to hide behind a scum tonight that doesn't die is confirming themselves not the hider to them.

Thoughts? I'm not really up on how to use hiders for town advantage but this seems like one way.

Just by the by Quick, by "thoughts" there I've posed a very specific hypothesis for us to look at and I'm asking for thoughts on that hypothesis, that one, just above this.

[Oxy]

yes, but how does responding to that with, "that theory is wrong because I wouldn't have directed the night kill based solely on how a person was reading me, and without regards to my team mates.

Which implies that the worst didn't scum read your hypothetical partners. Which is a really weird assumption to make as town.

[Oxy]

@mutantdevle

yes, but how does responding to that with, "that theory is wrong because I wouldn't have directed the night kill based solely on how a person was reading me, and without regards to my team mates" make sense?

It implies that the worst didn't scum read your hypothetical partners. Which is a really weird assumption to make as town.

ebwop

[mutantdevle]

Problems:
Anyone claiming to hide behind a scum tonight that doesn't die is confirming themselves not the hider to them.

Soloution: if the mafia then kill the hider, we can then use the fact that mafia knew people were lying to work out who the mafia team are.

^^ that sounds fun to do if we are in that situation. I'm all for your idea.

[Alonzo]

In other news, we have a hider, and we should have probably done this yesterday, but better late than never. Should we all massclaim who we're gonna "hide" behind tonight?

Quick question though:

@Mod, does the Hide go off if the Mafioso Jailer targets them?

1) Scum can't stop themselves being hid behind (unless above is a "no")
2) Scum can kill two birds, but with a massclaim we're hiding the hider and makes that a crapshoot for them
3) We get some guilties/innocents later.

Problems:
Anyone claiming to hide behind a scum tonight that doesn't die is confirming themselves not the hider to them.

Thoughts? I'm not really up on how to use hiders for town advantage but this seems like one way.

Just by the by Quick, by "thoughts" there I've posed a very specific hypothesis for us to look at and I'm asking for thoughts on that hypothesis, that one, just above this.

Well hypothetically speaking the hider should probably hide behind one more townread tonight, then reveal 2 conf town 2moro?

3 nights undetected may be a gamble to far?

@sando

[Sando]

Soloution: if the mafia then kill the hider, we can then use the fact that mafia knew people were lying to work out who the mafia team are.

Well the only way Mafia actually kill the hider is to NK the hiders target, at least I think so, waiting on Mod to see how dat jalier can mess with them. So if hider hits scum either of the next two nights then we get scum out of it, although yeah hider is ded.

Alonzo, yeah I can see it, although we're potentially 2 more townies down at that point, thus the mass-claim gives the hider less and less protection. Also I'm assuming you'd claim where everyone claims their N1,2 results and planned N3. Problem is there's a very high likelihood that scum can sort the hider due to the scum knowing that anyone who says a scum in their N1 and 2 results isn't the hider.

Basically I think your way we're hoping we get 2 conf-towns and have a very low chance of catching scum with the hider. I think my way we get 1 conf-town (assuming the hider hid last night) and a decent shot at scum or more town.

The other advantage to mine is I'd love to keep the mafias attention on the hider while our other PR can hopefully get some work done. I'm assuming at this point we don't have a vig since I'd imagine if they chose it they did it to kill N1 and that didn't happen (probably).

[Mathdino]

@Mod, does the Hide go off if the Mafioso Jailer targets them?

• The
  Jailkeeper
  blocks
  all night actions
  , and may perform the factional kill.

By the wording of the role PMs, no.

[mutantdevle]

yes, but how does responding to that with, "that theory is wrong because I wouldn't have directed the night kill based solely on how a person was reading me, and without regards to my team mates.

Which implies that the worst didn't scum read your hypothetical partners. Which is a really weird assumption to make as town.

I suppose it would help if I knew who my hypothetical partners are so that I know what the worst's reads on them are

Ngl I find this to be a stupid question. Why is that a weird assumption to make as town? Surely an assumption of the worst scum reading an entire scum team is far more of stretch and even scum reading 2 mafia is more statistically unlikely than just scum reading one. [1/12 chances of 1 scum], [1/12*1/11 for 2 scum], and [1/12*1/11*1/10 for all 3 scum].

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

[Quick]

well we can just lynch momo and go from there?

Hows that Sando read coming along?

@quick

I might have time sometime soonish.. Like I said, def before EoD. TBH, I don't want to do it so I am procrastinating it. I need to find some time and when I do I will do it. That time could come as early as tomorrow, however. The thing is, I said I would go over a game with someone and help them improve so I kinda want to get to that as well and that requires reading through and entire game so...

I actually don't think I feel to bad for at least wagoning Momo, but it's going to be pretty raw if they flip Town. Damned if you do damned if you don't sorta thing, I guess is how I am feeling about that.

[Quick]

I think unless Alonzo is pulling a fast on on me, he is almost def Town here and I hate Sando's push there.

[Quick]

This assumes way too much about the worst's reads. It potentially spews any other scum reads the worst has as town, but at minimum mutantdevle should have considered that the worst has other reads that could have been taken into account when making an nk decision.

Also, mutant basically just confirmed that he should have seen the worst's soft.

So why didn't you see the worst's soft? Do your soft-identifying skills diminish when you are town?

Personally, I think you are assuming more when you claim he was properly scum reading me. I mean, these were the lest 2 posts of his that mentioned me (from a simple CTRL+F)...

Is Piss by virtue of a Korina read?
or did you find his opening towny?

Also for the record I'm uncomfortable TRing Pint but Oxy/Mutant are honestly probtown

pedit: good post...he refuses to do anything townie ://

devle <3
catch up and tell me what you think of pinguricchio

Take this as you will.

Though just sayin', he literally fucking says it.

But I suppose the start of the game where he was suspicious of me must be his more accurate reads than what he says here. And I would totally kill him for tarnishing my good ole' townie imposed name.

And, I don't know about you, but I find I don't need to PR hunt when I'm town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I PR hunt as scum, not as town.

Honestly, it's becoming a little frustrating how you're making this accusation against me when you're not even looking at the facts. ('you' is a synonym for Oxy and Pintu here) I'd also like to think I'm more inteligent than basing a night kill off of how someone

used

to read me.

This is a very legit point...

IDK guys, I am feeling Town on Devle. Even though he is wordy as all fuck, I think most of it is pretty damn solid and in my experience, solid usually comes from Town.

[Alonzo]

Momo hasn't Burned anyone for a few days now

So im gonna

Unvote

For now and keep digging.

@Quick, post up the link to your buddies game and we will all chip in with that. Thats gonna give you more time.

Did anybody understand Random Midgets post or who it was aimed at?

[Sando]

By the wording of the role PMs, no.

Cheers big ears.

Ok so the mafia options if they work out who the hider is:
1) If the hider plans on getting a scummer, they can jail them but not kill them
2) If the hider plans on hiding behind a townie they can kill the townie and doom both of them
3) They can fake us out by jailing the hider who plans on hiding behind a townie

All in all, if we could lynch the jailer the hider becomes a lot more powerful for us.

To me, this says that no, we're not doing my plan tomorrow, which is I think what Alonzo is suggesting. Too much chance that scum will know from massclaim who the hider is.

So we can:
a) Do Sando's plan
b) Just ignore the hider today and hope for two inno's tomorrow

I'm for (a) mostly because I'm awesome, but I think the problem with (b) is that there's a decent chance one or even both of those inno's are deadsies. The hider needs to then basically claim and unless we direct them onto a scum N3 then we're down two townies overnight.

[Quick]

Momo hasn't Burned anyone for a few days now

So im gonna

Unvote

For now and keep digging.

@Quick, post up the link to your buddies game and we will all chip in with that. Thats gonna give you more time.

Did anybody understand Random Midgets post or who it was aimed at?

I can do that I guess... not in a million years was I expecting to get more help on this, but I'll take it.

Game is here:

http://personalitycafe.com/mafia/124046 ... hread.html

I was Scum buddies with this person in this game (I go by the same name there) and we are looking at Glenda Garden Gnome.

[Sando]

Did anybody understand Random Midgets post or who it was aimed at?

He's claiming he missed the start of day PM and that's why he hasn't posted...then he didn't post any more.

[Oxy]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

[Oxy]

b) Just ignore the hider today and hope for two inno's tomorrow

this is my choice.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

[Quick]

b) Just ignore the hider today and hope for two inno's tomorrow

this is my choice.

And feel free to crumb as well.

[Oxy]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

[mutantdevle]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

Yeah, but

why?

I assumed what was most probable.

Why

is that scummy?