Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[mutantdevle]

Also, fml. I just wrote a long ass theoretical scenario explaining how everyone fake claiming a hider target each day helps us narrow down who the scum are when they are eventually killed only to find my theory wasn't actully that accurate...

If there was only 1 scum left though then doing this would nail them.

[Oxy]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

Yeah, but

why?

I assumed what was most probable.

Why

is that scummy?

To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make

any

assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

And I don't want to continue arguing it because I've made my argument for people who might actually /vote mutantdevle, and you are not one of those people.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

I want to know what you think of piss. This is not strictly a TR of mine, but I figured you were open to talking so I'd like your thoughts on that slot.

[Quick]

Also, fml. I just wrote a long ass theoretical scenario explaining how everyone fake claiming a hider target each day helps us narrow down who the scum are when they are eventually killed only to find my theory wasn't actully that accurate...

If there was only 1 scum left though then doing this would nail them.

Hider cover isn't a terrible idea actually... IDK how it fits very well in this setup with so few(?) TPRs, however. I mean, the con is that we get fucked royally because Scum shoots who hider hides behind... Yeah, it's a risky strategy. A possible way to get clears though, is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).

[mutantdevle]

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

Yeah, but

why?

I assumed what was most probable.

Why

is that scummy?

To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make

any

assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

And I don't want to continue arguing it because I've made my argument for people who might actually /vote mutantdevle, and you are not one of those people.

The 'assumption' I made was within a comment with the general premis that I wouldn't be dictating the kill. Sure I didn't need to mention it, but it was a point of defence.

I was also not fully aware of the worst's read when I made this comment as, unlike what pintu supposedly did, I had not ISO'd the worst. I only recalled that his read eased up on me.


Also, the whole point of any argument is to get a read or further aread on both the players involved. You can't just only have your side. I'm also making an argument for people who might actually vote me by presenting how BS your case is and hence you shouldn't be voting me for this. I might add that simultaniously in presenting your case as BS I'm also making an argument why people might actually vote you (or pintu) instead.

Besides, is it not good to get our interactions for when either of us flips?

[Sando]

To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make any assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

I'm not following your logic here Oxy, and I've read this interaction between you and mutant very closely now.

Mutant gets accused of being ducklings main scumread and thus a reason for mutant killing duckling. Mutant points out that he was actually moving ducklings read away from scum towards town, so that argument about him should be invalid.

What's this about "assumptions" that I'm missing here? To me he did what you said, pointed out ducklings read on himself being null or even town.

[mutantdevle]

is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).

For a moment there I was like "damn, this is a really good idea and we should totally do this because a hider can claim without fear of being directly attacked" but then I remembered that mafia have a JK and that would totally ruin this (although reduce the risk that the tracker is blocked instead).

Basically, I think that once we lynch the jailkeeper the hider should role claim and follow this strategy.

[mutantdevle]

Do you honestly take me for the kind of player that would selfishly want my team to spend a kill eliminating someone that threatens me and

me alone?

@Sando I think he's referring to this assumption in bold.

But again, this point was made because Pintu was accusing specifically me for killing the worst for scum reading me. He never mentioned the worst scum reading anyone else in my team, so I made the same assumption that no one else was involved.

[Alonzo]

Agree we need a dead red on the board first.

re: hider

[Alonzo]

@ Mutant

Give us a list?

[Quick]

To answer your question, and in addition to other reasons I have noted, it's a wierd assumption because you don't need to make any assumption as town to defend against this. You just point out the soft claim or his read on you.

I'm not following your logic here Oxy, and I've read this interaction between you and mutant very closely now.

Mutant gets accused of being ducklings main scumread and thus a reason for mutant killing duckling. Mutant points out that he was actually moving ducklings read away from scum towards town, so that argument about him should be invalid.

What's this about "assumptions" that I'm missing here? To me he did what you said, pointed out ducklings read on himself being null or even town.

This is going to sound crazy, but this post makes me reconsider my read on you. This kind of Tone is pretty damn difficult to fake.

[Quick]

is to have hider give 3 TRs to hide behind and then they are able to clear one of them at best and we know Scum is in one of those 3 at worst (if they hide behind Scum and die).

For a moment there I was like "damn, this is a really good idea and we should totally do this because a hider can claim without fear of being directly attacked" but then I remembered that mafia have a JK and that would totally ruin this (although reduce the risk that the tracker is blocked instead).

Basically, I think that once we lynch the jailkeeper the hider should role claim and follow this strategy.

Hider goes before JK to the best of my knowledge.

[Oxy]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

I want to know what you think of piss. This is not strictly a TR of mine, but I figured you were open to talking so I'd like your thoughts on that slot.

I have little to no read on pisskop. I know he has posted next to nothing, but I can't remember what he has talked about. I need more from him, and that's why pin and I are voting him.

What did you see from him that you liked?

[Quick]

I am kinda feeling like all the active people are Town at this point... I will leave room for Oxy to be Scum though.. Actually, I keep thinking that Oxy is intentionally holding back and not showing their full hand and I was thinking this was Townie, but now I am thinking it is more Scummy.

[Quick]

All I've done here, is assumed the most likely scenario - which is my general approach to mafia and even life and I don't really see why that's not a shared attitude. I don't get why this is so sus and it honestly feels like you're reaching.

We'll have to agree to disagree, then =/ I think it was a scummy assumption to make.

And I'm pretty confident pintu is town, so I'm not too worried about him misrepresenting TW's reads, or w/e.

Let's negotiate TRs?

sure. what's on the table?

I want to know what you think of piss. This is not strictly a TR of mine, but I figured you were open to talking so I'd like your thoughts on that slot.

I have little to no read on pisskop. I know he has posted next to nothing, but I can't remember what he has talked about. I need more from him, and that's why pin and I are voting him.

What did you see from him that you liked?

Had nothing to do with piss themself. Had everything to do with Korina... I can see two sides of the coin here on Korina... I think some of the things he did was pretty Townie, but then we found out that was because they weren't on their meds and then I noted a change in their tone and then later they replaced out. So I am about where you are on that slot.

And I am thinking all the active posters are Town again.

[Oxy]

Do you honestly take me for the kind of player that would selfishly want my team to spend a kill eliminating someone that threatens me and

me alone?

@Sando I think he's referring to this assumption in bold.

But again, this point was made because Pintu was accusing specifically me for killing the worst for scum reading me. He never mentioned the worst scum reading anyone else in my team, so I made the same assumption that no one else was involved.

@sando This basically sums up the point of contention. I believe it's a weird assumption for town to make when presenting a defense, he obviously doesn't.

[Quick]

I am doing this:

VOTE: Momo

[Oxy]

Had nothing to do with piss themself. Had everything to do with Korina... I can see two sides of the coin here on Korina... I think some of the things he did was pretty Townie, but then we found out that was because they weren't on their meds and then I noted a change in their tone and then later they replaced out. So I am about where you are on that slot.

And I am thinking all the active posters are Town again.

Ah yeah... Korina was an early town read of mine, who then had one or two awful posts before replacing out. I decided to just call korina's input null, and sort pisskop instead. We ended up getting very little to sort, though =/

[mutantdevle]

@ Mutant

Give us a list?

I think the main reason for most of these changes is loss of confidence or lack of development.

Town:

Sando <-- this is feeling pretty locked tbh.

-0

Town Lean:

Oxy

v1

Quick

-0

Alonso

-0

Null:

Not_Mafia

-0

randommidget

-0

Scum Lean:

MOMOMEN

v1

pisskop

^1

Scum:

Ceejay

v1

Pintu

-0

If you disagree with my reads (as people naturally will and should do), question them; don't shit on them.

[Quick]

@ Mutant

Give us a list?

I think the main reason for most of these changes is loss of confidence or lack of development.

Town:

Sando <-- this is feeling pretty locked tbh.

-0

Town Lean:

Oxy

v1

Quick

-0

Alonso

-0

Null:

Not_Mafia

-0

randommidget

-0

Scum Lean:

MOMOMEN

v1

pisskop

^1

Scum:

Ceejay

v1

Pintu

-0

If you disagree with my reads (as people naturally will and should do), question them; don't shit on them.

I have a very hard time believing that Scum make a reads list like that...

Have you done a reads list like this before as Scum?

[Quick]

Had nothing to do with piss themself. Had everything to do with Korina... I can see two sides of the coin here on Korina... I think some of the things he did was pretty Townie, but then we found out that was because they weren't on their meds and then I noted a change in their tone and then later they replaced out. So I am about where you are on that slot.

And I am thinking all the active posters are Town again.

Ah yeah... Korina was an early town read of mine, who then had one or two awful posts before replacing out. I decided to just call korina's input null, and sort pisskop instead. We ended up getting very little to sort, though =/

OK, well, you are putting my mind to ease atm and I was pretty unsure about you for a while, so this is really good.

[Sando]

Do you honestly take me for the kind of player that would selfishly want my team to spend a kill eliminating someone that threatens me and

me alone?

@Sando I think he's referring to this assumption in bold.

But again, this point was made because Pintu was accusing specifically me for killing the worst for scum reading me. He never mentioned the worst scum reading anyone else in my team, so I made the same assumption that no one else was involved.

@sando This basically sums up the point of contention. I believe it's a weird assumption for town to make when presenting a defense, he obviously doesn't.

Ok cool. To be honest it was part of my read of the situation though, so to me seems NAI, but apparently I'm too logical to be town so take that as it may:

So when the worst died, I reread his ISO to check his reads, and surprise surprise, you were his suspect, and you were MY suspect on D1 since forever, so who would have known, I was right, you are scum.

My issue with this is:

a) It assumes Mutant is calling the shots on the scumteam, do we think that's likely and what does it say about his partners?

b) It assumes duckling wasn't PR hunted successfully, putting the NK as NIA for all.

[Alonzo]

Vote Quick

Thin Ice

[Quick]

Vote Quick

Thin Ice

That is going to require some explanation...

If you are trying to pigeonhole me to making a case on someone, sorry, but I don't respond well to threats.

[mutantdevle]

Have you done a reads list like this before as Scum?

Yes. This is my own personal style of reads list.

I was uncomfortable making the ladder list earlier as I prefer to put people into specific catagories rather than making catagories against each other. (btw, the order of each player in each of those catagories does not depict how they compare to each other. Eg. all the town leans are of equal town lean-ness).