Touhou UCanPick 5 - [Game Over]
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When I left, there was 4 pages. Now there are heaps. I was not prepared for this.
Hey so in all my games I super read hard everybody's posts and do massive try hard walls for town. I've decided I'm going to try hard and be as lazy as possible for this game. I appreciate players may go 'Look he is changing his meta, lynch him' and you know what, I don't care anymore. Where not playing for money and I just realised that I'd rather be asleep.
So with that out of the way here's stuff I found interesting on the read:
Gamma
I'm afraid to say I didn't think your action was serious because I don't believe FG would give anybody a day 1 spellcard that was also a dayvig. Because I totally picked a late game character thinking "haha this'll be a vig for sure!" and then I got a load of potatoes. So if somebody actually got a day 1 vig they are probably scum, and that's probably why we got that updated rules from FG going "Oh if somebody gets dayvigged it deosnt end the day and the amount required to lynch a player doesn't change tee hee" so scum can't wait til a wagon is at L-1 and then shoot somebody to end the phase.My Sky_Paladin townread is cos they thought my action was serious, meaning they thought Fire was in the game, meaning they weren't paying attention to the player list, meaning they're probably town because scum would peruse the player list to search for dangers
Eddie Skies
this post says 'this list contains all 3 scum'
Do we know there are three scum? Am I going to have to read the rules ? sigh
Also 'my avvy is more theme'
no my avvy is Cirno
You lose
Purrcote
Leave cloudman alone
y tho
Votes DLE
Explain please.
Eddie Cane
this
Why is Purr special? Is this in response to Purr asking people not to vote Brian?purr convince me why one of the other 7 is worthy of a vote
Katyusha
reads
you forgot to include me ;___; /forever alone
General: I enjoy Elibern bring up Eddie for his position (or lack thereof) on Gaiden. This looks like the first Serious Business thing in the thread so far and I'm of the opinion that: Eddie should clarify, given the lack of content from Gaiden.
TBH this is the most I've seen Gaiden post in a game - is it AI?
Conversely Katyusha's post here where she responds to Gaiden makes me think eh, maybe there is content that I just can't see.
This pings me though:
~~I also felt this was a townie response, scum usually posture when asked this or at least fake a read.
I saw a Brian Skies wagon appear and I got excited but then it ran away, so I guess I'll leave my vote there while I sleep.
ebwop goddamn this was supposed to be a lazy post.- Sky_Paladin
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Turns out Eddie Cane and Eddie Skies are different people, I;m sure this won't end badly.
So I read the rules, no number of scum identified.In post 304, Sky_Paladin wrote:Eddie
this post says 'this list contains all 3 scum'
Do we know there are three scum? Am I going to have to read the rules ? sigh
Like I'm sure this is just a simple case of me reading too much into what people wrote and it's totes not a gotcha but
why did you say three scum?- Sky_Paladin
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@MOD
The restriction of 'one spell card per phase' is not actually written in the setup.
Can you please clarify what is intended -
A - Once any player has used a spellcard, no other players can use spellcards during that stage.
B - A player with multiple spell cards can only use one per stage, but other players can also use spellcards in that stage.
C - Some other thing.- Sky_Paladin
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There probably was? My main concern was they were massively over-reacting and response to pressure was to appear to meltdown and complain that it's not fair without doing anything really.
I mean if I had attracted a whole bunch of votes I would go ok that's fair - I have less posts than other people. I have always argued for a policy lynch of chronic lurkers but it never happens so I thought well why try so hard for the first half of the game and get screwed over mid-game because I wrote a lot and its easy to find problems with people who write a lot, when I could just comment on the things I found interesting and save people the trouble of walls. I can always try hard later if it matters. Suddenly votes appearing = it matters. The best way to get votes off of yourself is to put a better reason for people to vote elsewhere. HS wrote a list of lurking players (myself included) but quantified it as "Why don't these people have votes" instead of "We should put pressure on these players who aren't doing anything, look here is my vote on playerx to show I am serious about advancing the game state".
So when you write a giant wall and don't advance your own game state (still no vote from HS) then you are deadweight and must be destroyed by fire.
Right now though I feel good about some combination of Human Sequence/Text Gen and maybe even Purrcocet all being thrown into the blender. Purrcocet at least has a vote but every time I read their posts I think 'is this shitposting non-content I see?' and want it to meet justice.
TBH I had a strong scum read on Katy from the start of the day but she has posted a lot of content and looks shiny so I think it might just be her white mage avatar bothers me because it's moving and I keep looking at it.
Kiana is my other top town read at the moment. I enjoy wall posters and her tone is a delight to read. Everybody else basically doesn't rate in my eyes yet but that's okay because I don't either.- Sky_Paladin
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Re Text:
I Became Concerned when Kiana said my 304 was good, and Text said it was not good, but did not clarify what he did not like about it. Why go out of your way to comment over a player who had very little content if you're not going to do anything meaningful about it?i kind of have been easing on TG and think he's town though - what's changing your mind here?- Sky_Paladin
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To clarify further -
When somebody says "player x is doing good" it encourages them to do more of that thing. So when Kiana posted I had warm fuzzies and thought "guess I'll post more later zoop". It needs no further clarification and invites players to question Kiana's motives rather than mine. So that is a risk that Kiana took - if I later flip scum, people remember this and look back at her with sharp eyes.
OTOH when somebody says "player x did a bad" it invites people to look at the player who is 'doing bad' and evaluate but without guidance, eg "Player x did a bad because (reason)!".
So not only did he crap on Kiana (my town read) he also crapped on my cornflakes, and to what end?- Sky_Paladin
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I actually strongly considered Cirno (haha strong!) and she was on my list of toons to pick
I would love to banter but I dont want ot fill up the thread with motivation sapping noncontent posts.
hypothetically if tg flips and it's not game over, what do?
I remember katy posted a list of plans earlier but I forgot the details. something like dunn vigs gaiden or rolechecks him I can't remember.
IMO it's not worth checking a low profile player like that - that's what policy lynches are for and friendly neighbourhood spiderscums that are trying to find the doctor.
Come to think of it I'm not on Katy's locktown list yet so I should work out what is going on there. It is always good to make friends with a vig even if they're out of shots.
Although iirc there are usually spellcards to refresh other spellcards.
Katy, on a scale of one to ten, with one being last week's pizza in a blender and 10 being the expensive china on top of the shelf your mother saves for the special guests, whereabouts are you rating me?
Asking for a friend.- Sky_Paladin
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oh thanks for that quote
I am kind of sheeping this
My caution read on Purr is more that Purr out of the blue picked me as a suspect slot some time ago on the back of me saying I wanted him thrown into a blender.If anything I'd prefer Purr as the investigative target,
to me I felt
well to some degree we all feel some amount of wifom when somebody wants you to meet the divine bullet of justice.
but I thought look I am playing lazybones mafia how angry could I truly be?
then I thought
I am playing lazybones mafia. How much does my opinion really matter?
how come mine merits attention?
SO I would prefer the detective on Purr myself.- Sky_Paladin
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That is fair.
A conditional argument can form the basis of a strong analysis if that condition is applied in some meaningful way.
eg.
Because of (relationship) between player x and player y, if player x is scum, player y is likely to be also.
from this we can change a simple observation of 'data' into 'information' - which we can make meaningful decisions from. An advance of game state.
If I just posted the above that would fit my version of 'information instead of analysis'. Non content post. Wastes critical player focus.
so instead;
To my snapshot glimpse it did not appear Text Gen was attempting to reconcile meaningful alignment information based on the presumed alignment of another player (HS/Kiana) and, when HS died and flipped scum, did not immediately reconcile this to be "Kiana is therefore town." This therefore looks like a fabricated read and is evidence of scum alignment.
But to be fair, this is a retro-active statement and I am just guessing why Kiana quoted that post.
In reality I scum read TG way back when he made some comment about one of my posts being poor but directed it at Kiana. This just seems to underscore the situation.- Sky_Paladin
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Hmmmmmm I'm deeply surprised that none of the obv-town players exploded eg both Katy and Kiana are around today. So whatever Dunn was going to do was probably important.
That was vig 2x players iirc among Hebi/Gaiden/???? anything else I missed?
I'm also disappointed TG flipped town. Come on, couldn't you have at least TRIED to flip scum? That would have been convenient.
So anyway who is left.
SXTLHGaiden - prob town unless Gaiden and Hebi are scum together. Which means 4x scum (possible) but means suicide pact if any of them ever die. Also means scum won't hit either of them because it confirms the other.
Sky_Paladin - obv town because super best friends with everybody forever
Kiana Kaslana - obv town because princess
Katyusha - obv town because she took a hammer to scumtown
Lexa - not sure. I think this is a type of car? Nullslot for me because I've invested 0 effort into reading it. Guess I'll go do that.
DaLetterEl - I think even less content than me so concerns.
Elbirn - I forgot this player existed so probs scum.
hebichan - re: Gaiden. Is either scum or auto-town if Gaiden flips town.
Purrcocet - Despite frequent assurances is definitely not scum feels a lot like scum to me. But feelings eh
Gamma Emerald - same as Lexa. Basically I need to look closer at this slot. They've posted a bit so the lack of read is bad on my part; I should develop a read.
So lets see.
Players who I want to cherish and protect
Katy/Kiana
Probably Gaiden and Hebi unless Hebi comes in and says Gaiden is actually scum in which case I'm grabbing popcorn and a torch
Players I need to look at and be a better player
Lexa, Gamma,
Players that need a fire under their ass and/or need to be set on fire
LetterEl, Eli,
Actual scumread that I need to look and consider if this is a real read or just kneejerk reaction to being shaped for blending
Purrcocet
I'm still effectively VLA for the next three days before I resurrect and destroy all evil.- Sky_Paladin
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Actually, given I am basically afk for the next 72 hours starting in about 3 hours I should probably full claim so we don't have the drama of sitting around waiting for things to happen.
I'll wait a few hours in case somebody wants to chime in and say that I should zip it.
Flavor claim: I'm stage 4 Imperishable Night: Reimu Hakurei.- Sky_Paladin
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I think you should trust your instincts, Kiana. I have not been paying sufficient attention to the game to have a strong feeling about the number of scum My thought is just that with 15 players I would anticipate 4 scum.
But I have not factored in the high number of kills available; my heart says that some of these vigs must be scum controlled. But I can't rationalise it.- Sky_Paladin
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Oh, I didn’t realise Kiana wanted me to claim! Ok sure thing.
My card prevents a player from dying but also crushes their card.
It works during the day phase too so I could prevent a player from being lynched.
Naturally I cannot target myself.
It also works during LYLO.
Hypothetically I could have used it last night to protect Kiana but I did not want to crush her card.
It’s potatoes because imo it looks like it hurts town more than helps it; and i can’t use it to protect a player from being vigged because if I use a card, the other player will just use their card another day.
TLDR one shot doc with a bad side effect.
Kiana could use her card today and I could protect her at night, for example.
I considered covering Katy last night but did not want to prevent Hebis check from going off even though I would have preferred it to be used on Purr.- Sky_Paladin
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OK so;
Day 1:
Brian Skies [8]- Sky_Paladin, Gamma Emerald,Eddie Cane,Text Generator, Katyusha, Kiana Kaslana, Lexa,Brian Skies[LYNCH]
Not helping:
Human Sequencer[2] -Dunnstral, Purrcocet
Gamma Emerald [1] -Human Sequencer
Lexa [1] - hebichan
Eddie Cane[1] - Elbirn
Not Voting [2] - SXTLHGaiden, DaLetterEl
Day 2: Mislynch of Text Gen -
Text Generator [7]- Sky_Paladin, Lexa, Gamma Emerald, Kiana Kaslana, hebichan, Purrcocet, Katyusha [LYNCH]
Not helping:
hebichan [1] - Elbirn
Not Voting [2] - SXTLHGaiden, DaLetterEl
Fun observations: Sky was first on all final wagons. I'm the doombringer!
Probably suspicious mostly of Elibirn's day 1 vote on Eddie Cane; followed by the vote on Hebichan day 2.
SXTLHGaiden has voted at various parts of the game so the unvote is strategic but I'm not interested in pursuing this slot while we have a psuedo-clear on him. Out of the two AFK'ers, I'd pick DaLetterEl for explosions.
I'm going to look at Lexa/Gamma this phase and see if I can sort them before Kiana gets back.
Lex/gamma before I get into it, want to explain your votes for day 1/day 2?- Sky_Paladin
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I think that I probably saw this post when scrolling past earlier in the game and mistook that for a vote from you (Gaiden). You weren't high enough in my likely-scum-candidate list for me to note who you were votingfor.- Sky_Paladin
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sure did, I accidentally attributed something to you that you hadn't done my bad. I'm legit not interested in lynching you this phase because of the psuedo clear on you that will be naturally resolved at some point without me having to do anything.
So for me the main action for this phase is to decide if I am town sorting Lex/Gamma or not, and then to decide what I think about Purr or Eliburn, and then that is probably a wrap.- Sky_Paladin
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tell me morei wanna lynch sky paladin though i think PEER PRESSURE
tbh scum me would have used my card to crush yours the moment you threatened to vig me so~
There is not really any value in shooting Hebichan to confirm Gaiden because, despite my error previously, is not actually contributing. Sad noises. We'll just have to wait for scum to kill Hebi after they've worked their way through Kiana, Katy, and myself.
You keep wanting me dead Purr. What's your problem? There are plenty of other inactive players to go for. Why am I special to you?- Sky_Paladin
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Review of Lexa's iso.
Only real issue is day 1 he enabled Brian Skies to self hammer on day 1. TBH somebody had to vote Brian to L-1 and it just happened to be Lexa.
Reads in 260 look sound, I particularly like the early linkage of Brian/TextGen that is probably the source of Lexa's vote on TextGen day 2.
I also particularly like the town lean on me winky face.
Picks HS for scum waffle in 464 and also foreshadows TG vote. Conversely 471 is a bit of a turnaround on TG. 473 logic is a solid town clear for Katy that is enough to remove the remaining shadows I had over Katy.
486 issues with Purr's tone (same), reads I wanna sheep in 489. Clearly indicates to HS why he thinks HS is scum in 551 before more Purr.
Lexa is town. Gamma is up next.- Sky_Paladin
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Slow down their, pardner. I'd stop you from being lynched this phase yes, and it'd also stop you from vigging me, because you'd have no card.My card prevents a player from dying butalso crushes their card.
What's the reason you're anticipating to be lynched this phase?
Is it because you've done the numbers and realised you're outgunned? Curious minds just gotta know.- Sky_Paladin
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Gamma ISO
I think Gamma had the OG read on Brian in 96 when Brian asked if Firebringer was actually in the game.
Early shade on TG 97 to consider for the day 2 vote.
First pages leading up to 100 posts, Gamma throws a lot of town reads on me (a lot for only the first four pages of the game) because I didn't realise Firebringer wasn't in the game. He defends this position to some extent with pokes coming from several places, including Gaiden. I doubt Gamma was pocketing me on account of no real posts from me at this point so it probably comes from town!Gamma.
Townread on HS in 265, oops.
289 and 291 'triggered' on TG, with this being the same post I picked up as a reason to vote TG.
Defends HS in 804; then rolespec in 870 'This looks like a scum ability' on HS.
Random vote on Gaiden in 878 because Gaiden responded to a vote against him. The vote was from Purr because "Don't hurt me". Claims, then changes to Text in 1014 because no interest in Gaiden. Hmmmmmmmmm this bothers me a lot.
And that's a wrap.
Gamma's day 1 looks good but there are a couple of concerning posts, in particular, he had some town read and defends on HS. However in contrast he was probably the first one to push for the Brian Skies lynch on day 1 and basically started this wagon.
Gamma has had a lot of fights with players. I feel like if he was scum, there'd be a lot more players scum reading him.
My only real concern is day 2 he consolidated on Text because he couldn't get traction on a Gaiden lynch.
So I am townlean on Gamma for now.- Sky_Paladin
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Because it gives the impression that you didn't really want to lynch Text, but you settled for it because you couldn't get your preferred lynch of Gaiden.
You hadn't really been driving a lynch of Gaiden at any point and had just voted there almost randomly, however through your game you had highlighted several issues with TG. So you falling back to TG as your preferred lynch is natural but it bothers me because the way you said it was quite weak. You doubled down on your vote later on in 1088 which restored my faith a bit. However, it's just that consolidate to TG (at the time, only Sky and Kiana were voting there) didn't seem like you really believed in scum!TG. I'm struggling to actually pin down what bothers me and I think that it's the fact you revoted and provided a new reason, like you had forgotten all the other things you had posted before.
It's kind of a disconnect and that is what I'm uncomfortable with.- Sky_Paladin
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Eliburn ISO:
Starts off with super valid vote on Purr as early as 23 and disagreement with Eddie in 66 that all looks good imo. Asks questions back rather than just satisfies others, continues to drill into Purr. Probably comes from town Eli.
Unvotes in 231 because not sure if Purr/Kat are srs. Actually I can kind of get behind this post as it came a couple of days later in RL and shows that Eli has mellowed a bit and is starting to question his own reads.
252 is an odd post directed at Brian.
I don't really know why but this post pings me.Is being apologetic generally a townie thing to you?
262 argument with Eddie followed by a vote. Mainly pertinent because in this post that Eli quoted, Eddie had listed Brian/HS as his top scum picks, followed by Text Gen oops then me.
Pertinent why - did Eddie ever become a credible counter-wagon to Brian? Arguable - here's the tally.
Eddie Cane [2]-Text Generator, Elbirn
Text Generator [1]- hebichan
Brian Skies [2]- Sky_Paladin, Gamma Emerald
DaLetterEl [1] - Purrcocet
Human Sequencer [3]-Dunnstral, Eddie Cane, Katyusha
Gamma Emerald [2] -Human Sequencer,DaLetterEl
Not Voting [4] - SXTLHGaiden, Kiana Kaslana,Brian Skies, Lexa
Almost immediately after this tally (about two pages later) is when the Brian Skies wagon takes off. Elibirn never gets on the wagon and stays on Eddie, who flips green.
Start of day 2 I check how to spell the name - it's Elbirn! All this time I thought it was Eli. My apologies.
Also checks in with 459 and says Katy's vig is useless if scum can just self hammer. Like they did in the previous phase.
IMO this is not true; and it is also factually not true re: HS.
I can abide by this from the position that Katy's role was not explicitly town with her L-1 constraint; it became town when she used it to put HS out of his misery as she could always have pushed the angle of "Let's put a few more players at L-1" in order to have a credible alternate target. But Elbirn could not have known this at the start of day 2.
Votes for Hebichan in 517 for changing their read on Eddie, which is a good catch. Probs town Elb.
I realised this is becoming a wall and I promised myself I was not going to try hard this game.
So I'll ezymode the rest.
828 calls out HS for his role claim being awkward. Probs town Elb.
This is a thing though:Actually waif why are we lynching TG and not Hebi who is my counter claim?
We have nearly the same number of posts :<Sky I found it funny that you said you forgot who I am because I swear to high hell you're not a player in this game
I think I'm gonna card smash people who don't claim.
???Vote Sky_Paladin
~~~
Townpiling Elbirn for now but I'm conflicted. My gut says this is a scum slot. But there's nothing in the posts that actually looks scummy and conversely there are a lot of towny posts.
Welp Hebi and Purr are up next.- Sky_Paladin
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So let's see. Hebi is one of the few players who is not dead and yet has less posts than me.
Early activity was called out by Elbirn for changing read on Eddie, yadda yadda.
Mainly I'm annoyed that the card was used on Gaiden instead of Purr who has a lot of posts and interactions that would be useful to go back and read if they flipped later, and also because Hebi posted this in 569;
Case is in 574 as:I think purr is scum pretty likely at this point, and I am about to make a post to case that.
Didn't help lynch Brian. Complains of feeling lost/not contributing a lot. Strange to put a lampshade on it. I straight up admitted I was not trying hard and that I'd been not following the game properly (as evidenced by me thinking Gaiden had voted for example). I don't like it. Day 2 switches to HS, claims, switches to TG in 1055 because:I think purr is pushing the most active person off the wagon is a bit weird...
I feel like human sequencer could be one of those townies who just tends to fencesit, and his breaking under pressure doesn't feel like scum so much as frustrated town.
Purr on the other hand seemed to have waited until there was a bit of momentum on HS and just sort of trolled and didn't provide content until then, and reads lists can be easily faked, even if its one that on its own is pretty decent. I just feel like the posts around
VOTE: purr
I also think there's at least one scum on the brian wagon and brian self voted to push them through town scrutiny.
Hmm. While Hebi did vote TG in RVS, I'm not sure I remember an actual scumread on TG from Hebi at any point. Let me check.I liked it before and I like it now.
Last mention of Text Gen was in 569 as:
One of these things is not like the other. Probably scum!Hebi here.Kat, And Text generator are probably town at this point.
And here we are today with a vote on me because ??? oh well.
I think Purr shooting Hebi would be fantastic because:
Hebi flips green = Gaiden is town.
Hebi flips red - Purr probably town.
If not game over: Sky protects Katy.
Next day phase: Vigs away.
I think Kiana had something she wanted to do with her card though.
Well lemme go check Purr and then decide if I want to put a vote down somewhere.- Sky_Paladin
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Napkin math do not read this as an absolute plan to action, it's a 'hypothetically, ...'
Purr shoots Hebi. If Hebi = red -> town lynches Purr - max 4 scum, town win. Because Hebi refusing to check Purr is probably scum!Purr if Hebi is scum.
Else, town lynches DaLetterEl.
If not game over; night phase Sky protects Katy. Mafia probably nightkills Kiana, Sky, or now town-confirmed Gaiden.
Remaining player pool is reduced to Katy, Purr/Gamma/El/Lex, and one of Kiana, Sky or Gaiden. Gamma vigs Sky and (Purr or El), and if the game isn't over, town lynches whichever of Purr or El is still around.
Following night, scum kills one of (Kiana/Katy). Following day (LYLO) has (Kiana or Katy), Gamma, and Lexa, with all three as town reads, and one of Kiana/Katy remaining as locktown. So I don't think we will reach that point; I think it will be game over all scum dead either this day phase or the following day phase.- Sky_Paladin
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Gaiden is only confirmed town in the scenario where Hebi (who has a cop result on Gaiden as town) flips green. In the scenario I wrote below it's assuming Purr shoots Hebi this phase (or we lynch Hebi) to get a town confirmed Gaiden, who scum are now obliged to kill before LYLO.
Bolded for emphasis;
Purr shoots Hebi. If Hebi = red -> town lynches Purr - max 4 scum, town win. Because Hebi refusing to check Purr is probably scum!Purr if Hebi is scum.
Else, town lynches DaLetterEl.
If not game over; night phase Sky protects Katy. Mafia probably nightkills Kiana, Sky, ornowtown-confirmed Gaiden.- Sky_Paladin
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