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the fun thing about people with good town games but shit scum games is that they're very easy to pressure even if they're aware its just pressure
I can already sense their burgeoning disappointment.
In post 58, Elbirn wrote:I reside in a serene and peaceful world where no moderator is enough of a bastard to grant even more killing power to the team whose power it is to kill people.
What FG games have you played in? And what do you consider to be extra killing power?
, which makes sense if he's already perused the playerlist for threats
Not what I said, especially since alts are a thing. And if you do something, like fake a reaction test, and it seems off I'm obviously going to question it.
Yes, because he has, and apparently on more than one occasion.
Kat, you said you read all the Alice in Wonderland games, but did you come across that one? It's the sequel to his Through the Looking Glass game.
In post 96, Gamma Emerald wrote:For not realizing Fire wasn't even in the game. Scum would probably peruse the playerlist for threats, as seen above with why I said that first thing was a scumthought
Sure, I can see this. I glossed over the Joker image and didn't realize it was relevant.
In post 125, Katyusha wrote:I figured if FG were to include a scum vig it’s going to be more clearly scum by set up spec.
You're not claiming vig, just extra killing power. And I don't think FG (or any good mod) would do that in a UPick, although I don't typically play in UPicks so ???
In post 126, Gamma Emerald wrote:I don't get why you reacted to this differently when it's the same logic as the above.
Because I wasn't paying attention to your broken image on a skim, and at a glance I thought you were giving him towncred for just stating simple setup-related information ("You have to do this for your action to count" and whatnot). Tbh, I thought he was mostly saying it to Kat, and not because you pretended to dayvig Firebringer in your first post.
In post 128, Gamma Emerald wrote:If scum have extra killing power in this game where no one else can act in a phase I'd be surprised
If only one card can be played per phase, then would that apply to the scumteam too? Scum might not even get to play their cards if town keep playing theirs first.
I can vig a player who was recorded to be at L-1 in any votecount once per game, starting at D1.
I can kill a player who was recorded to be at L-1 in any votecount once per game, starting at D1.
They effectively mean the same thing to me? what's your point.....
unless you're saying a scum vig is unlikely, which I agree with here. there's probably going to be some parallel or something that makes the role clearly scum if it exists, which seems mechanically weird in a game with public actions.
I don't really care about going into a long discussion about this with you, but as far as I'm concerned, this wasn't (or probably wasn't) a setup that was designed in advance and roles were probably determined based on player submissions and not with any predetermined ideas regarding flavor or more subtle setup nuances like you're implying. It makes more sense to me for a role to be more ambiguous in its application than to just be 'this is obviously a scum power' or 'this is obviously a town power,' especially since everyone has to
publicly declare
when they'd be using their power. Otherwise, scum are pretty much dead in the water from the start since from what you're implying, one or more of them wouldn't even be able to use their spellcard since it would make it obvious they were scum and they'd be lynched.
Negative utility town roles are also a thing. And so are roles that look townish on the surface but are actually scum roles. And I'd expect both of these from any moderator worth their salt.
I'm also from the school of thought that roles don't determine alignment, and neither does confimability (which only means you have the role you claimed, not that you're town). And seeing players make bad assumptions that may or may not favor scum is a pet peeve of mine and I
Using your spell card today is a scumclaim and will be met with a policy lynch
I have a vig that only works on wagons that have gone to L-1 and I feel it’s best used as a double lynch today - I realize a lot of people may think I shouldn’t claim this but
when I roll town I find I play better while conftown
-
and this role is pretty strong and obviously town when it’s coordinated by town
, most L-1 wagons either end in a lynch or are bad lynches anyway. And yes it’s stage 1 so it works at day
We should try to decide on a first lynch around 4-5 days into the DP, and then use info from that for the next lynch. I will not shoot a townread (or Purrcocet unless I’m 100% sure they are scum) however.
In post 63, Katyusha wrote:As I understand it, L-1 in the past as long as it’s in a VC
I can double check though
In post 0, FakeGod wrote:It must be your stage or past your stage for you to be able to use your spell card.
She opens up by saying he wants to use her role and anyone who decides to use theirs instead is scum (strong fearmongering, favored tactic by most scum; coupled with the fact that she's claiming a 'vig' type role, this makes for an effective tactic for scaring townies into following them). This irked me because there was no discussion as to whether her role was best for the day or that if someone else had a better role to use that she'd be open to it. This felt more like a power play by Kats to confirm her role and hope that by claiming and confirming her role people would townread her for it, rather than trying to see what was best for the town and making sure she would take the best shot (emphasized by her stated desire to be conftowned and treated as town by confirmability and wanting to make sure she got her vig shot off and getting a second flip rather than making sure it was the best thing to do). From my experience, town are less concerned about being treated as conftown, but scum prioritize it since it gives them more influence over the playerlist and also lets them skate by on bad towncred.
Also note that nothing about her role or the setup states that she
has
to use it today, so her pushing to use it feels more like someone who wants to take advantage of it immediately and get rid of a potential threat rather than someone hoping to optimize its use.
In post 4, Katyusha wrote:I will not shoot a townread (or Purrcocet unless I’m 100% sure they are scum) however.
In post 12, Katyusha wrote:but i highly doubt there's a better PR to use D1, it's basically a free cop on me too
Notice how she reemphasizes that her role is best for today (debatable) AND that by confirming her role, she's be basically conftowned (confirmabilty != town).
none, my chakras are flaring tho theres something with them i FEEL IT
but yo purrcs i got a counterproposal for u:
VOTE: purrcocet
She subtly instigates Purrcoat and then jumps on him when he suspects her.
In post 37, Katyusha wrote:I agree that what they haven’t done is like scummy and that elbirn’s push is townie but they’re capable of doing that as scum and are probably memeing. Either way they need pressure
Doesn't think Purr is scummy, but he needs pressure?
In post 58, Elbirn wrote:I reside in a serene and peaceful world where no moderator is enough of a bastard to grant even more killing power to the team whose power it is to kill people. It is wonderful here. There is birdsong, and the gentle pitter-patter of the snowmelt dripping off of the tree branches and into the lake below. I breath out, and with my breath go all of my troubles. Because FakeGod knows that if there's a scum vig I am going to frown at him.
In post 59, Katyusha wrote:agreed on you about scum vigs - when i was thinking about claiming i wasnt sure if FG's design style is different for this sort of game,
i've only read the alice in wonderland games
and all of the games that've been played during my time. i probably should take a look later, i'm honestly not sure what to expect if we're getting basically a D1 double lynch and probably 3 scum.
In post 103, Katyusha wrote:oh shit scum did have killing power in that one, hm
i guess i'm not an IC, which is fine, but still.
i still think we should use my spellcard asap
In post 124, Brian Skies wrote:Kat, you said you read all the Alice in Wonderland games, but did you come across that one? It's the sequel to his Through the Looking Glass game.
That setup was built around giving clues of that role’s existence, which Kagami figured out pretty quickly (though she did have the flip to help her)
I figured if FG were to include a scum vig it’s going to be more clearly scum by set up spec.
Notice how Kat agrees with Elbirn that vigs are less likely to be scum and how she brings up other games to support her claim. When I brought it up to her, I was expecting her response to be more along the lines of 'I forgot that game' or 'I didn't see that one because it the title didn't fit the theme' or something along those lines. Instead she admits to knowing about it but didn't bring it up, and the explanation seemed to be more of her trying to explain her way back into her original narrative and how it didn't apply rather than any acknowledgement of why her role could be suspicious.
Also note how even after it's made clear to her that there were scum killing powers in other games, and that her role wouldn't make her town, that she still wanted to make sure she could use her power. Feels like she's getting antsy and wants to make sure she gets her ability off.
In post 143, Katyusha wrote:didn't even notice the brian wagon but i like its composition so far and i'm not townreading him
VOTE: Brian Skies
Another vote on someone who openly suspects her, but fails to explain why I'm worthy of a vote other than 'I'm not being townread.' Probably her looking to shut down those who suspect her and get rid of a threat.
In post 149, Human Sequencer wrote:if ur all wagoning him cuz his posts are ugly that's something I completely understand but gamma deserves it too and maybe even Kat
HS openly suspects Kat as well, and once again, see where Kat ends up going.
In post 185, Text Generator wrote:Eddie and probably one of Kiana or Lexa are scum; BS is provisionally town. The composition of the BS wagon, for the record, is actually bad. Gaiden might be scum too.
Katyusha changed her claim and should vig the L-1 wagon
after
an unvote to prove that her role is actually what she just said. If she can vig anyone who has ever been at L-1, I'd agree that that seems unlikely as a scum role.
VOTE: eddie cane
In post 190, Katyusha wrote:I’ve never changed my claim, what are you talking about?
Can you expand on your Eddie read?
In post 191, Text Generator wrote:You claimed you could vig the L-1 wagon initially. Then you claimed you could vig anyone who had ever been at L-1, which is very different in my mind.
Tentatively EC's reads look easy or spurious. He has a pool of mostly low content posters, and his preferred lynch order is nearly the opposite of the order I read the slots in.
To a certain extent, I'm waiting for Kiana and Sky Paladin to do something, but I don't want to make them post because I want to see if they'll continue to lie low.
In post 194, Katyusha wrote:Meh, I figure the “have gone to” shows it works on past wagons but I get you
I can kind of see where Eddie’s reads are coming from as well and am not sure if viewing the gamestate differently is scummy at this stage - if anything I kind of think it’s better to see where he takes them since that’s how I usually read stronger scum players
Not sure if “spurious” is the word i’d put to them. They seem like reasonable gutreads as well - especially considering how he’s not really strongly scumreading anyone. I feel like people faking reads don’t just “wind up” faking poe reads and if I nailed down a reason for why his reads seem genuine it’s that. Not to insinuate scum are incapable of faking reads, I just don’t think with the persona Eddie would put up this game it fits that well
Plus one on Kiana and Sky, though
Kat's quick to defend Eddie, who she'd bee trying to warm up to and who also has 'POE' reads in her favor. She claims to 'kinda see where Eddie's reads are coming from,' but fails to discern how or why she feels this way, just that she thinks he's town. I still have to go through Eddie's posts, but I find this noteworthy and possibly indicative of a buddy.
In post 198, Katyusha wrote:Purrc idk if I’ve ever agreed w ur votes this game
Awkward reaction considering Purr doesn't even townread Kat, Kat doesn't have any strong feelings on Purr either way, and she even tried to wagon Purr before moving on after realizing people weren't interested in flashwagoning him.
In post 207, Katyusha wrote:{Elbrin, DLE}
{Dunnstral, Purrcs}
{Eddie, Gamma, hebi}
{Gaiden}
-----------
{Kiana, Lexa, TG}
{Brian, HS}
Suddenly Purr is town, which is mostly an Eddie read, and her scumpool is comprised of lurkers/lynchbait and players that have openly suspected her or questioned her claim.
In post 145, Human Sequencer wrote:96 is a really bad post
it's not even that scummy
it's just bad
i don't wanna live in a universe where people actually vote other people for knowing who is and isn't in the game
this is kind of a weird thing to say about the person you're voting for though
Another awkward comment, because apparently HS can't have conflicting thoughts about someone he RVS-voted.
It bothers me that Eddie feels the need to state the same scumreads over and over with minimal changes (which are mostly lurker/inactive players as well as those who openly suspect or don't immediately accept Kat as town), but I feel like Kat wouldn't brazenly copy Eddie's scumreads (in that she only omits Hebi and Sky) if this was an Eddie/Kat scumteam. The overlap here though is a big red flag (mostly for Kat since I see this more as her sheeping his reads than buddies pushing the same thing).
In post 243, Human Sequencer wrote:Kat is a towny town
why do we have to waste an easy townread on a confirmable slot zzz
This is a questionable post, especially since HS openly suspected kat earlier (without explanation). Not sure if this is actually how HS feels about Kat or if he's just giving in to Kat's intimidation.
In post 263, Human Sequencer wrote:can you really not see how a slot having a lot of one line, unimpressionable posts can cause them to mentally slurry together with other players
maybe it's from doing an iso? i don't know, having read this game entirely in context and not yet doing an ISO i feel like Eddie has been kind of echoing what I've been thinking in my head a lot, maybe change a thing or two.
and yeah, don't force reads if you don't have to. i have full faith if you're town you can towntell and scumhunt fine but right now I don't really see it. If anything you kind of remind me of your play in that shitty micro from way back when? it was literally your last game iirc, you felt kind of potatoey i guess and just kind of floating around. if you're just in a rut though let's try to get out of it
the difference is i'm not thinking what you're thinking
i've asked him to explain the whole brian thing like twice and he's just stonewalling me so i don't know how i'm supposed to see what he's seeing
if the micro was the nano multiball with luca blight (which was my last game before hiatus i think) then i was in a massive rut then, but i was also town in that game
i don't feel particularly rutty rn tho
In post 274, Katyusha wrote:also the possibility i'm getting pocketed exists etc
i dont want to paranoia lynch eddie d1 though i'd feel like a shitty friend
HS tries to air his suspicions on Eddie, and Kat continues to strangely buddy his reads and defend him.
From my experience, scum struggle with reasons for scumreading someone, and so far, Kat/Eddie have mostly been just townreading players (something that's far easier for scum since they already know their alignments). Elbirn's confusion over Kat/Eddie's Gaiden townread (someone I alway struggle with reading, although I think I remember Kagami claiming to have a good grasp on him), resonates a little with me.
Also, HS is right in that Eddie mostly just reiterated his POE pool instead of explaining his reads in any way.
In post 120, SXTLHGaiden wrote:I also just learned that going to night phase advances the stage.
feels like an oddly specific thing to try to derptowntell with as scum, i think it's more likely genuine
scum probably have had some time to discuss the setup and mechanics considering how much it's centered around the game, if he's scum i think he just doesn't mention this while giving setup info since it's not on his mind
nothing conclusive i'd like hard-whiteknight him off of but it's a preliminary townread.
I'm also not really buying this as a reason to townread Gaiden. Sure, it seems a little odd for someone to state openly in thread, but fake towntells are a thing and I don't see how this reaction couldn't have been faked. Not to mention it's not like Gaiden's really done anything that I find even moderately helpful or insightful.
In post 302, Eddie Cane wrote:where? also, i've posted about why i scumread brian at least a while ago, you literally just iso'd me.
For the record, the only explanation I've found regarding his BS/HS scumreads thus far are that he thinks we're 'buddies.' But the only reasoning I can infer from his posts is that HS doesn't understand why I was being wagoned and that we've both suspected Kat to some degree.
In post 302, Eddie Cane wrote:Brian has seen one of my worst town games on site, that was mostly because my hydra partner told me someone was 100% scum and to push it and they had a 10 game track record of reading that person flawlessly and they were town.....
Lol.
Kiana spamming the thread seems like a good stopping point for now. I'll go over more reads in my next post.
I also don't really feel the need to claim, but will if needed. My role does play into my scumread of Kat a little bit.
Maybe with a night phase to actually think about what I've said instead of blindly following her, you'll see that I was right. Or maybe someone has a cop role and can confirm her.
In post 421, Katyusha wrote:Like mislynches happen, d1 is literally about shooting the shit and engaging with people
No? D1 is for consolidating reads, and you just wanted to run people up so you could use your 'dayvig'. That's not townplay. Like your idea was to run me up as fast as possible so you could lock me in as a target, as if we didn't still have over half the day phase left.
you're town, then I'd probably look at Sky first. He was just sitting on his RVS vote on me all day and mostly just came in to fake disappointment in my dissipated wagon as if he had anything to do with it.
I think hebi might be town, just because I feel like I may have left a strong impression on her last time we played together. I definitely don't think she'd be open to lynching me straight away here if she were town. Scum her might be less open to keeping me around since I did go after her a few times.
