Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]


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Post Post #11 (isolation #0) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i picked 2 not because i actually wanted a power role but because i wanted to fuck over scum

i see that did not work unless janitor is scum

anyway, every game, someone asks "what if scum WIFOM'd the draft???"
and every game, it turns out that no, scum actually does want power roles, they did not WIFOM the draft and pick the same numbers
the only person in this game i think would do that is A50

so anyway

saske is town by the draft imo

scum possibilities:
Iconeum
Janitor
the worst
{Beefster, Taly}
Lalendra
{Ausuka, Lovebird, brass}
{Almost50, mutantdevle}
Ircher (going for that guaranteed PR)

wishful thinking says hitting scum in the bottom half of the bracket will confirm other townies
VOTE: Beefster

Edit: when i started typing this post i was the first one here
so jinx guys :P
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Post Post #12 (isolation #1) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Post by Mathdino »

to be clear, my intent was to be far enough down the draft that

- I would not be a target for the NK

- I would essentially be forced to be a VT or a terrible PR

i did actually try to be a PR once i saw that i was 6th on the draft though, and obv no comment on that
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Post Post #13 (isolation #2) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:30 pm

Post by Mathdino »

y'all motherfuckers should've picked 2 more tbh
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Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:31 pm

Post by Mathdino »

lovebird is town

townbloc: {Mathdino, Lovebird, Saske}
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Post Post #15 (isolation #4) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:36 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Night 3 Vigilante/Vengeful: people keep crumbing this, stop crumbing. vig/venge someone based on community consensus. i doubt town picked vengeful but if anyone claims vengeful, policy lynch them (this is optimal play)

1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO: vig someone who's either dead weight or is likely to be lynched tomorrow. luckily we have a list of "most likely to be PR" to "least likely to be PR" so just try to hit vanillas imo. doubt anyone ever picks PGO in this setup

Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector: we hypoclaim cop targets tomorrow, remember to actually act like you have an inno

Universal Backup OR Role Cop: role cop is surprisingly not terrible. rolecop people at the top of the list. look for scum picking vengeful, redirector, etc.

Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor: i sincerely hope no one picked fruit vendor. neighborize talkative hard-to-sorts who won't get NK'd. i used to be a great neighbour but now i just get NK'd so don't neighborize me thanks
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Post Post #17 (isolation #5) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:39 pm

Post by Mathdino »

my vote is now policy with extreme prejudice
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Post Post #24 (isolation #6) » Thu May 03, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Masons and Monks: "OMGUS, but I don't care."
Stack the Deck: "Mathdino's posts strike me as IIOA mixed with lurkscum opportunism"

Pick Your Power X/Y: "TBH, this looks like role fishing." *claims*

yeah policy lynch this shit
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Post Post #33 (isolation #7) » Thu May 03, 2018 2:59 pm

Post by Mathdino »

less fluff more analysis
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Post Post #37 (isolation #8) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Konnichiwa SIMYK! I will RESPECT you by REMMEMBERING not to call you SASKE (but WOW hes so hot.·´¯`(>▂<)´¯`·.)

Your PERESONAL belief is FINE but my vote on BEEFSTER is PERSONNEL, KID!

Do you have RESAONS to be voting someone ALMOST 50 like that??? To ME this doesnt make SENSE but idk how RANDOM your vote is (*≧m≦*)
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Post Post #39 (isolation #9) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I SUPOSE he could be putting WINE in front of ALL OF US but is a50 the one WHOMST deserves eerly wagons?? ಠ~ಠ

pedit: Wow that's very INTELIGENT of you!! ôヮô

BUT doesnt beef seem like a BAD WAGON for scum to join? ༼´◓ɷ◔`༽
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Post Post #42 (isolation #10) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

welcome to pick your power x/y

the draft is Serious Business for people who've played or meta'd this setup before

which part aren't you getting
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Post Post #47 (isolation #11) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:38 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I played in 579 way back when. This was when I got copcleared and then misvigged for correctly figuring out all the PRs as town.

I recommend reading the scum threads more than the actual games. 701 has a particularly interesting scum thread.

Tbh I thought 2 would've been picked more based on the previous draft data but w/e
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Post Post #56 (isolation #12) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:52 pm

Post by Mathdino »

SIMYK can you familiarise yourself with Beefster's scum meta pls

specifically Masons & Monks, Stack the Deck, and Clownspiracy (in which he literally claimed scum in a neighbourhood)
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Post Post #58 (isolation #13) » Thu May 03, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 2797, Beefster wrote:VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: Mathdino
VOTE: Momrangal
VOTE: the worst
VOTE: InfernoBrafin
VOTE: Beefster

Fuck this game. I give up.

I'll throw and self-vote.
In post 2798, Not_Mafia wrote:If you insist

VOTE: Beefster
this was in mylo
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Post Post #67 (isolation #14) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by Mathdino »

SIMYK has good reads along with a powerful, respectful, and unwavering voice
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Post Post #71 (isolation #15) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i mean if beefster is scum he probably legitimately didn't get the jailkeeper/tracker

i doubt he'd lie about that
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Post Post #78 (isolation #16) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

can confirm, bad idea A50
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Post Post #82 (isolation #17) » Thu May 03, 2018 4:53 pm

Post by Mathdino »

you guys realise most of my setup spec is done from the armchair

pick your power x/y is a weird setup to figure out but once you get the hang of it, there really aren't all that many moving parts
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Post Post #92 (isolation #18) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Pick Your Power X/Y Except The Mod Chooses Who The Mafia Are


(Not An Art Project)
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Post Post #98 (isolation #19) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by Mathdino »

are we talking about NSG's Mini Normal 1996: Floral Shitstorm

or drealmerz's game
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Post Post #102 (isolation #20) » Thu May 03, 2018 5:36 pm

Post by Mathdino »

interestingly, FMPOV, while everyone would've had a 3/13 (or 23.1%) chance of being scum

due to the draft ruling out a bunch of scumteams, each of the singletons (this includes janitor FMPOV) actually has a 26.2% chance of being scum

the probability of someone in a duplet being scum is 21.9%

the probability of one of the triplets being scum is only 18.5%

scum is straight up more likely to be in the top half than the bottom half in this setup, and i'm guessing i can prove it using past results

so the risk early on is lynching potential PRs
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Post Post #106 (isolation #21) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:30 pm

Post by Mathdino »

VOTE: The Janitor
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Post Post #112 (isolation #22) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:38 pm

Post by Mathdino »

how is anything that you've posted useful to the gamestate then
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Post Post #118 (isolation #23) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i have 5 reads already

you don't get to complain about the fluff and then not post useful things my dude

telling me my reasons for townreading SIMYK are shaky (oh but you're townreading her anyway never mind!) don't really do anything and SIMYK already made that point about herself

in fact the general sentiment of "oh well that's all a load of WIFOM" is just bad and in my experience comes from scum more than random

anyone who was there for team mafia in which over 70% of the scum could've been lynched before RVS just based on pre-game information, knows what i'm talking about
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Post Post #123 (isolation #24) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:50 pm

Post by Mathdino »

SIMYK is an alt yeah
so is the janitor

janitor the problem is that you seem more focused right now on tearing down information than building it
the point of early game is to go from low information to high information

i literally provided calculations proving that in this setup, there are people who are more likely to be scum
we have information, both from the draft and from 5 pages of content
but instead of commenting on it you've just questioned reasoning that i made in my first post
which i did specifically to produce more information.
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Post Post #124 (isolation #25) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:51 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 122, Almost50 wrote:@Dino: FINALLY! But I think we should start with the lowest single # (i.e. Iconeum) and move from there.
finally what?

from my perspective janitor is effectively a single, and if you're townreading me you should also be able to see it FMPOV

so i would prefer to lynch the janitor rn
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Post Post #126 (isolation #26) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:51 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 124, Mathdino wrote:
In post 122, Almost50 wrote:@Dino: FINALLY! But I think we should start with the lowest single # (i.e. Iconeum) and move from there.
finally what?

from my perspective janitor is effectively a single, and if you're townreading me you should also be able to see it FMPOV

so i would prefer to lynch the janitor rn
wait a second are you fucking with me

are you literally suggesting lynching a guaranteed power role
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Post Post #133 (isolation #27) » Thu May 03, 2018 6:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

guys it doesn't make any sense for beefster to be lying

he'd just get fucked in massclaim

i doubt scum-him gets jailkeeper and thinks "oh boy lemme just pretend to be a VT instead of using my claim as a get out of jail free card later"

beefster is almost certainly vanilla

wouldn't mind if he ate vig tbh

Edit: you're in luck because lovebird is town
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Post Post #135 (isolation #28) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:00 pm

Post by Mathdino »

then you'd get fucked in massclaim when it turns out there are 0 tracker/jailkeepers above you...

this is pretty simple shit guys...
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Post Post #145 (isolation #29) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:11 pm

Post by Mathdino »

great the A50 i know is back

your post is half horse-shit and half "stuff i was just about to say" :P

gonna break it down
In post 139, Almost50 wrote:Scum would have probably picked lower numbers (3 different ones).
i disagree with this, i think scum usually goes for 2 lower numbers and 1 larger one (to get a "guaranteed" singleton)
In post 139, Almost50 wrote:But -of course- scum would not want to appear so obvious, so while they will try to be at the top of the draft priority they want to (a) obscure it, and (b) avoid having town picking the same number(s). So..

One of Beefster/Taly is likely scum because I think at least one of the top 3 suspects is just a townie who tried to fuck with the Mafia plan
honestly scum just wants a couple things
- get as many power roles as possible
- fuck over town's ability to beat them in the draft
that's why the 1-2 punch is so effective -- one scum bombs town with the 1, while the other either takes a likely PR with 2 or bombs another townie

that said, i literally AM the townie that tried to fuck with the mafia plan. no one else has claimed they did so. TW chose basically randomly, and idk janitor/iconeum's logic. i explicitly didn't want a PR and figured 1 townie and 1 scum would choose 2 based on previous game data.
In post 139, Almost50 wrote:I would agree Saske is most likely town based on that strange pick (who the hell picks 413 unless (a) they wanted to make sure they remained powerless, or (b) expected nobody to pick a certain role and wanted to go for that (which is still farfetched because while the pick guarantees nobody else would have picked the same number it also guarantees she will come after everyone who picked a unique number)
this is a good representation of my logic on SIMYK (don't call her Saske she doesn't like it)
that said i think ircher is very much in the running
11 is low enough to beat crazy high picks (there's usually 1 or 2 of those in this setup) and high enough to be a likely singleton
In post 139, Almost50 wrote:FTR, Mathdino should have been tied with The Janitor, but I decided he is likely town because of my role (he is above me in the draft, and I think I know what he would pick/have his team pick if he was scum), and that's all I am willing to say for now.
really dashing my hopes of getting through an open game without more than one person softclaiming (or worse) on D1 but ok

iconeum can be scum based on this page alone

but i'd still prefer to lynch the janitor
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Post Post #151 (isolation #30) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:24 pm

Post by Mathdino »

A50 was playing solidly in his scum meta until basically his last wallpost

i'm waffling on A50

i don't like iconeum but i'm very reluctant to go icon today because
- guaranteed PR vs unlikely PR
- A50 putting icon first before janitor is weird to me, and i feel like scum-him sheeps me essentially where he did

need more data basically
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Post Post #153 (isolation #31) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

the way he dances around your questions is NAI

janitor is obviously an alt lol
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Post Post #174 (isolation #32) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

@Ausuka: i feel like i've seen that line before :igmeou:

@Iconeum: It doesn't make it easier for scum to get PRs if one scum picks 2 (and if another townie picks 2). I picked the number I most thought scum would pick.

@: PRs are NAI in this setup. My scumdar/PRdar mixup doesn't count here. This is actually one of few setups where I actively PR hunt as town in order to gamebreak.

@A50: No, it's just that you've made just one townish post so far. I'm paranoid of everyone and then I start crossing names off lists (or gradually fade names off lists). You're also mathematically less likely to be scum so w/e.
But yeah I'm not particularly paranoid of scum-you. But you have been posting within your scum meta. Still early, things may change.

Iconeum seems townish enough I guess. I agree that it's self-resolving.

We should lynch the Janitor. The Janitor is likely the low-number scum.
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Post Post #180 (isolation #33) » Thu May 03, 2018 7:59 pm

Post by Mathdino »

@Janitor: quit the bs

your posts have not been useful and do not demonstrate a town mindset

i have obviously evolved my reads since my literal first post, you're harping on me trying to create information out of what i had available to me at the time

RVS is great and all but it's stupid when you have information available already

also your slot ALWAYS had higher scum equity to me. i picked 2 because i thought scum would pick it.

you picked 2. and i'm townreading iconeum and TW more than you, soooooooOOOOOO...
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Post Post #181 (isolation #34) » Thu May 03, 2018 8:01 pm

Post by Mathdino »

wait okay quick thing, janitor

are you purposefully trying to play with a different playstyle/speaking-style from your main? (so you don't get identified)

i'm not hunting for your main to be clear
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Post Post #188 (isolation #35) » Thu May 03, 2018 8:18 pm

Post by Mathdino »

why do you keep assuming this alt has never played with you before
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Post Post #193 (isolation #36) » Thu May 03, 2018 8:29 pm

Post by Mathdino »

A50 it's probably not who you think it is?

also i maybe know who janitor is too now? doesn't matter but lol

was trying to figure out if what i was scumreading was alt awkwardness, i.e. trying out a different style and looking horrible/scummy for it

back to our usual program though
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Post Post #262 (isolation #37) » Fri May 04, 2018 11:18 am

Post by Mathdino »

seriously

what has mutant done that's particularly townish
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Post Post #287 (isolation #38) » Fri May 04, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Town: Lovebird, TW

Probtown: Beefster, SIMYK

Unlikely scum by draft: Ausuka, brassherald, Taly
Unlikely scum in general: Iconeum

To sort: Ircher, Lalendra

Probscum: Janitor, one of {A50, mutant}
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Post Post #290 (isolation #39) » Fri May 04, 2018 12:56 pm

Post by Mathdino »

A50, mutant behaving this way is not a towntell for him
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Post Post #291 (isolation #40) » Fri May 04, 2018 12:57 pm

Post by Mathdino »

wait did you just try to pull one wrong read i had (an example of me getting pocketed) as evidence that my scumread on one of two people is stupid
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Post Post #295 (isolation #41) » Fri May 04, 2018 1:20 pm

Post by Mathdino »

your scumgame is not exclusively "i have a plan for how to deal with every player"

i don't know what you're asking me to see
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Post Post #298 (isolation #42) » Fri May 04, 2018 1:24 pm

Post by Mathdino »

...i never asked you to?

i haven't been advocating for D1 lynching you lol

if you're scum you're not exactly difficult to lynch later on

idk what your deal is

also why no interest in the 4s and 5s?
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Post Post #300 (isolation #43) » Fri May 04, 2018 2:00 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 299, Almost50 wrote:
In post 298, Mathdino wrote:also why no interest in the 4s and 5s?
That would be because you're not reading what I'm typing, perhaps?
fuck off, man

you know as well as i do that scum is not literally {1, 2, 3}

why is iconeum MORE likely to be scum than TW? why lynch in increasing order?

and since we know scum is not {1, 2, 3}, that confirms someone as scum outside that group. going by your logic, that would heavily implicate a 4 or 5.

your theory at its most basic makes sense -- there's scum in the low numbers. obviously.

but you don't seem to be acting in a way that's actually in line with you having thought through your draft-based setup spec.
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Post Post #308 (isolation #44) » Fri May 04, 2018 2:39 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i'm not invested enough in no longer threatening him with a policy lynch

to actually defend the fact that i'm slightly townreading him
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Post Post #310 (isolation #45) » Fri May 04, 2018 2:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

that they're a great motivation to stop people from

- making shit votes with 0 reasoning

- self-voting in lylo?
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Post Post #314 (isolation #46) » Fri May 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Post by Mathdino »

have you been shot by a vigilante in this setup after getting cop cleared, jailkept, neighborized, and roleblocked?

no?

towns are stupid, i don't trust them

i will setup spec all i damn well please
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Post Post #328 (isolation #47) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i don't even know what to say to players like you

on page fucking 1 and 2, in which half the players hadn't posted yet, yes i'm going to focus on the information i have available to me

my reads are clearly independent of my setup spec, which only INFORMS my reads

you don't know the meaning of WIFOM. scum does not send in draft numbers in this setup to fake town out, they send it to rob town of PRs and get good PRs when possible

so talk to me in specifics instead of trashing everything i have to say

do you think 2 scum would pick the same number to fake out town? if so, who in this setup would do so? i already discussed this possibility
do you think scum would pick all high numbers, essentially guaranteeing town gets the cop?
do you think scum would pick {1, 2, 3}?
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Post Post #329 (isolation #48) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:23 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 322, Ircher wrote:I townread Saske for their reads, not the draft. I feel that picking a high number helps ensure you don’t conflict with someone else, so I wouldn’t rule out Saske scum.
"I townread SIMYK but their draft number would be pro-scum"

nothing means anything, gg

...oh wait never mind you CAN game this setup and it's been done in the past
In post 324, Ircher wrote:How do you know SIMYK is an alt when they keep denying it?
because everyone knows they're an alt? do you think secret alts all go and admit that they're alts?

why do you care?

scum is {Janitor, Ircher, {mutant, A50}}
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Post Post #330 (isolation #49) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:25 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 325, Ircher wrote:
In post 133, Mathdino wrote:guys it doesn't make any sense for beefster to be lying

he'd just get fucked in massclaim

i doubt scum-him gets jailkeeper and thinks "oh boy lemme just pretend to be a VT instead of using my claim as a get out of jail free card later"

beefster is almost certainly vanilla

wouldn't mind if he ate vig tbh

Edit: you're in luck because lovebird is town
1. How is Lovebird town?
2. Didn’t you want to PL Beefster earlier?
1. i don't think your question is in good faith so i'm not answering that

2. how is that inconsistent with what i'm saying here

"beefster isn't lying" doesn't mean "beefster is town"
it just means beefster is probably actually vanilla and didn't get his tracker/jailkeeper pick
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Post Post #336 (isolation #50) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:39 pm

Post by Mathdino »

VOTE: Ircher
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Post Post #338 (isolation #51) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:41 pm

Post by Mathdino »

god don't you guys love it when players catch up and 80% of their posts are nullifying other people's posts and calling everything NAI

instead of actually creating information
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Post Post #341 (isolation #52) » Fri May 04, 2018 5:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

then that's your fault, not mine

because i've been doing loads of genuine scumhunting, and there's always those 2 or 3 players that laser focus on my setup spec for whatever reason

my entire thing on this site is breaking setups, i've broken 3 opens before

put your money where your mouth is -- if you want people to talk more about reads and less about setup, do it yourself
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Post Post #352 (isolation #53) » Fri May 04, 2018 6:10 pm

Post by Mathdino »

ircher, your scumread on me is not my fault

you're literally saying "it's hard to follow math's reads, therefore he's scum"

in what goddamn universe is "hard to follow" a scumtell

it sounds like you just want to remove me to make it easier for you to play the game the way you want to
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Post Post #356 (isolation #54) » Fri May 04, 2018 6:16 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i really don't understand why people catch up the way they do nowadays

where they're like "oh boy i missed 5 pages, guess i'll fill ANOTHER page ripping apart every 5th post"
and then another person comes along like "oh boy looks like i missed 6 pages, i'll fill YET ANOTHER page ripping apart the last 6 pages!"
and then another person comes along...

and on top of that, the majority of the catchups are just like "lol people aren't posting good content, stop making it harder for me to catch up"

hypocrites
:facepalm:

chronological catchups are bad and demotivational both for the player and for everyone else to have to watch, people should stop trying to be mastina
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Post Post #360 (isolation #55) » Fri May 04, 2018 6:20 pm

Post by Mathdino »

just read the game, post your reads, and then go back and quote the posts that support where you want to go with the game

it doesn't help anyone to just quote posts and say "yo this sucks" when those posts were made 12 pages ago and aren't relevant anymore

like in the span of your catchup you went from voting me because you didn't like my setup spec (without doing the research to find that i do that literally every game (although i haven't done it as scum yet i don't think?))

to backing off completely after being criticised for it

like what was the
point
of all of that

at least fluffposters are honest about their posts contributing nothing
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Post Post #361 (isolation #56) » Fri May 04, 2018 6:21 pm

Post by Mathdino »

(and this is not me condoning fluffposting -- please stop filling the thread in lieu of doing anything else, i want to throw my computer out a window whenever i see people's catchups taking a full page)

yo ausuka if you're here toss me a reads list
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Post Post #370 (isolation #57) » Fri May 04, 2018 7:03 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i want to die
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Post Post #390 (isolation #58) » Fri May 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 375, the worst wrote:
In post 87, the worst wrote:
In post 11, Mathdino wrote:anyway, every game, someone asks "what if scum WIFOM'd the draft???"
and every game, it turns out that no, scum actually does want power roles, they did not WIFOM the draft and pick the same numbers
the only person in this game i think would do that is A50
This just hit me like a brick

Also assume Saske is town by draft because scum would never let someone pick such a high number?
In post 90, the worst wrote:Can't be this adorable and smart too sadly
^^^^ this was the blonde moment
why did you make this post?

like who were you clarifying to?
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Post Post #395 (isolation #59) » Fri May 04, 2018 11:03 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i could really use "it's basically lylo on D1 already" brassherald much more than "comment on every post" brassherald

i know you don't do reads lists but do you have sets of people you think scum are in yet?

also don't really feel like explaining the lovebird thing because it's currently a topic that two other people are talking about between themselves

also i like TW less each time he brings up his mistake :/
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Post Post #399 (isolation #60) » Fri May 04, 2018 11:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

yeah can someone explain the ausuka case in more than just "gut"
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Post Post #442 (isolation #61) » Sat May 05, 2018 11:12 am

Post by Mathdino »

tl;dr of ircher's reads list: i am going to summarise why 80% of the posts in this game are null and then give a reads list in which 80% of the players are null
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Post Post #451 (isolation #62) » Sat May 05, 2018 11:34 am

Post by Mathdino »

holy balls did he actually say that

lynch this please, this slot is either dangerously bad or scum
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Post Post #455 (isolation #63) » Sat May 05, 2018 11:54 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 453, mutantdevle wrote:I feel like one of Ircher and MathDino are probably scum.
because we're scumreading each other and you can't believe either of us could be wrong?
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Post Post #457 (isolation #64) » Sat May 05, 2018 11:58 am

Post by Mathdino »

because it's lazy and seems to be intended to enhance an ongoing conflict between me/ircher

no analysis or nuance behind it

like yeah i make "one of {x, y} are scum" posts but my example in this game is based on "A50 is playing to his scum meta, is unlikely scum with mutant, and mutant hasn't towntold yet which has a lot of scum equity for him"

mutant's post doesn't really make sense
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Post Post #466 (isolation #65) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:09 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i'm playing in a way that has worked for me in basically every open game i've played

and he shows up to scumread me for
- trash setup spec (something he hasn't addressed directly)
- having reads progressions he doesn't understand

if he addressed my points, i would respond

but he seems far more interested in
judging
my points and my posts

it's a stupid way to play. his catchup is
"this person did this. null."
"this person did this. i like it. townlean."
"this person did this. i do not like it. shame on you. scumlean"

so how do you expect me to respond to that exactly
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Post Post #469 (isolation #66) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:11 pm

Post by Mathdino »

like there's something so fundamentally wrong about how ircher's getting his townreads and scumreads
it should be clear from reading the catchup that it's essentially ALL playstyle-based
taly isn't particularly townish, especially for taly's range. for me, taly is at about null with a hint of town.

i can't work with the way ircher is gathering his reads

and if he wasted about a page responding to each of my posts trashing it, i don't have enough respect for that kind of play to really work together with it
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Post Post #472 (isolation #67) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:13 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i would be very surprised if janitor were something_smart btw

SIMYK i think you're applying false meta to that slot

Edit: because there are better ways to phrase it than essentially "yessss these 2 fighting each other probably have scum in them! keep fighting!"
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Post Post #474 (isolation #68) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:14 pm

Post by Mathdino »

wait scratch that i read janitor's ISO and i guess i could see that lol

iiSq goat
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Post Post #476 (isolation #69) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:18 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 280, yessiree wrote:The Janitor (5) - Mathdino, Almost50, Iconeum, Beefster, mutantdevle
in that case, going from what i know of something_smart's lynchbait tendencies

(even if it's not S_S i think we can apply similar meta of "how people treat behaviour like that")

if janitor is town, i think there's guaranteed scum on this wagon.
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Post Post #478 (isolation #70) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:22 pm

Post by Mathdino »

FWIW i agree that A50 is much more likely scum than not here

but i will always disagree with lynching A50 on D1

if we're both town we'll figure it out (and one of us probably gets NK'd lol)
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Post Post #483 (isolation #71) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:46 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 482, Ircher wrote:I don't think this is a fair representation of my readlist. Yes, I have a good number of players in the null and neutral areas, but unlike most people's reads, I am more conservative about giving super confident reads. Also, if you actually took the time to read the 2nd spoiler about how to read the reads list, you would understand that my neutral reads != my null reads, and that my neutral reads actually do lean toward one side or the other rather than being completely in the middle.
that's a matter of semantics, and is irrelevant to actions that affect the game

a reads list isn't some hyper complicated way of viewing each individual's probabilities of being scum

it should be either an action bringing the game further to a solution

or a preamble to other actions (like wagoning or defending) that move the game along

your reads list was just as useless. you don't seem to really care about solving or moving the game.
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Post Post #485 (isolation #72) » Sat May 05, 2018 12:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

^while this is not intentionally a scumteam

in a very literal sense, THIS IS A SCUMCLAIM :O :O :O
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Post Post #500 (isolation #73) » Sat May 05, 2018 1:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

@a50: have you ever considered not blowing up when you're not in any danger whatsoever

i acknowledged that you were playing your scumgame with the exception of those couple posts i outlined. the gambit thing was one of them. i wanted to let whatever you were planning run its course.

then you started asking if you seemed to be playing with any agenda
"playing with an agenda" is more descriptive of town-A50 than scum-A50 though
so i was confused

and SIMYK is an alt of a good player dude
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Post Post #502 (isolation #74) » Sat May 05, 2018 1:31 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 3, yessiree wrote:Iconeum 1
the worst 3
Lalendra 5
Ircher 11
SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis 413
Mathdino 2
The Janitor 2
Beefster 4
Taly 4
Almost50 8
beefster went for tracker/JK
A50 went for neighborizer/fruit vendor

i'm okay with outing this because scum are already doing the math in their PT anyway. the info they have might as well be info town has.

this means there's a tracker/JK in {Icon, TW, Lalendra, Ircher, SIMYK, Mathdino, Janitor}
and there's a neighborizer/fruit vendor in {Icon, TW, Lalendra, Ircher, SIMYK, Mathdino, Janitor, Taly}

i don't actually understand how A50 thinks i'm town based on the fact that he tried to get neighborizer and failed?

the last time i played this setup (was town) i went for neighborizer (and failed)
i consider it one of the most fun roles to play
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Post Post #509 (isolation #75) » Sat May 05, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by Mathdino »

A50 the last time you tried that you got run up and self-hammered

why would you ever decide that trying to do that again would actually help anyone

when you did the "i think math is town because of my role" i actually assumed you were a VT who got shafted anyway

so that wouldn't have even worked (at least not if i were scum)
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Post Post #518 (isolation #76) » Sat May 05, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

yeah the duck's likely town

or has upped his scumgame even further which would be fairly concerning
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Post Post #530 (isolation #77) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by Mathdino »

- ALL scumhunting is luck. Using calculations based on empirical evidence is no different. I show my work when appropriate.
If someone's draft number makes them 15% more likely to be scum, how is that any different from the tone of someone's post making them 15% more likely to be scum?

- Your Ircher townread is based off of agreeing that you don't like my shit and on the notion that effort is alignment-indicative. Ircher is doing nothing to move the game forward or to push his agenda. His reads list reads to me like he wanted to dump a massive amount of effort while under pressure to get one or two suckers off his back.

- There are certain people that are straight up bad lynches for a variety of reasons. Confidence in a scumread doesn't mean I'm willing to take the gamble of lynching them. Lynching an A50 who I think is scum with, say, >40% confidence (which is about the threshold it takes for me to lynch someone) is high-risk low-reward. Scum A50 is not difficult to lynch and only has as much influence as town gives him.

- I can't think of anything to say or ask to you that would harden a read. Your posting style is easy to hide behind as scum. It's difficult to gauge the sincerity. I need associatives and flips for you. Kind of like A50 actually.
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Post Post #532 (isolation #78) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i spent a few months on a meta-dive kick

it hasn't really turned out too well. metadive-reads are >random but don't seem to be as good as my standard reads informed by meta.

why would i do that when 1 or 2 players in this game already know you well enough anyway?
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Post Post #533 (isolation #79) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

wait is this some kind of threat

like "lol the earlier you lynch me the more likely it is town loses"

because if so

:lol::lol::lol:
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Post Post #538 (isolation #80) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

interestingly, there was one game where scum both picked the same number

the mod forgot to give scum pre-game chat, and 2 scum picked "2"

the mod then didn't inform the players about the lack of pre-game chat, so one scum tried to use that as a reason they couldn't be scum together

i have 0 other evidence of 2 scum ever picking the same number in the draft given communication, and i detest the fact that some people in this game are continuing to argue "WELL SCUM
COULD'VE
DONE IT!"

without specifically discussing WHO would do that
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Post Post #540 (isolation #81) » Sat May 05, 2018 3:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

god see i don't want to read this post now

walls don't make you easier to read, they make you harder

that said you've given me a potential tell to metadive so i'll get back to you on that
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Post Post #541 (isolation #82) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:01 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Image
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Post Post #547 (isolation #83) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 539, Taly wrote:
Mathdino wrote:- ALL scumhunting is luck. Using calculations based on empirical evidence is no different. I show my work when appropriate.
If someone's draft number makes them 15% more likely to be scum, how is that any different from the tone of someone's post making them 15% more likely to be scum?
How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

You're completely ignoring any information that someone can use to detect someone as scum or town that DOESN'T come from mathematical probabilities or subsets from numbers. Simplying scumhunting as complete luck is a DIRECT simplification of a subjective game. Right now, you're coming to me based off semantics and not off the idea of trying to UNDERSTAND something in a subjective realm where we can communicate our ideas.

This mentality does little to nothing in helping someone see your point of view in this game.
Are the draft numbers randomized: Yes or No?

Quote the posts that indicate that I'm ignoring scumhunting methods/reasons other than probabilities. Am I doing any non-numbers-based scumhunting: Yes or No?

Can you ever be 100% sure of someone being scum without mechanics: Yes or No?

And if the answer to the last one is "No", then it follows that everyone has a percentage chance of being scum.
In post 539, Taly wrote:Me Saying-
"I don't like what
Mathdino's
doing here"

and
"I don't see the point of what
Mathdino's
doing at the moment, and I agree with this other person's approach"


ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
The other person's approach is literally saying "I don't like what Mathdino's doing". Have you even been reading Ircher's posts outside of his general tone of pushing back against me?
In post 539, Taly wrote:
- Did I say that that was the SOLE reason I townread him because of effort?
Fucking no. I saw no scum-motivation from the depth within his reads and he wasn't using his developed reads as a source to create WIFOM or unnecessarily scumread or townread someone WITHOUT REASON.
Scum motivation: Looking like town without having to take responsibility for actions this game because no one's going to read word he writes and he isn't attempting to influence the gamestate.
In post 539, Taly wrote:But I do agree in the fact that he doesn't have an agenda... because what the fuck agenda would town need in this game other than townhunt and scumhunt?
Does it look like he's pushing his reads or just stating them?

You don't fucking spoiler your reads list if you want it to affect the game.
In post 539, Taly wrote:
Mathdino wrote:His reads list reads to me like he wanted to dump a massive amount of effort while under pressure to get one or two suckers off his back.
You're making the assumption that someone ENGAGING with the people suspecting them are coming from a scum mentality?

What the hell are you hoping to figure out by pushing
Ircher
with this mentality?
You seriously think it looks like his reads lists are attempts to engage with the people who've been suspecting him? THE WHOLE POINT of this is that he hasn't been engaging with people, he's just commenting on things and judging them. His reads are not only useless (by virtue of basically everyone being at null or neutral, easy for scum to hide associatives behind), they're worse than if he picked 3 random people as his scumreads.
In post 539, Taly wrote:This still doesn't give any game evidence or intrinsic reasoning behind why you wouldn't pursue a confident scumread.

Are you genuinely looking at other people to find more general confidence in your reads, or are you unsure of Almost50? I don't understand your thought process here.
Don't really care. What should matter to you is whether this is alignment indicative for me. I'm not interested in spending walls whacking each other over the head with theory of townplay. This isn't a newbie game, and you're not a newbie. I don't lynch A50 D1, regardless of my read on him.
In post 539, Taly wrote: :igmeou: If you can't figure out anything to say or ask me, then ISO me until you do. It's really not that difficult from my perspective.

Or just keep engaging with me like this and hopefully I don't rip my hair out. I elaborated on my townread, and I'm not fond with the way you tried deconstruct one of the few reasoned townreads on
Ircher
.
"It should be easy for you to read me from my perspective"
"I'm townreading someone for disagreeing with you and I'm not fond of you disagreeing with me"

I don't HAVE to come up with a read on you out of thin air. Your ISOs in games are painful to get through.
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Post Post #548 (isolation #84) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:14 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 546, Taly wrote:Ugh, I'm sorry if it seemed like I got truly worked up there and bolted at you
Mathdino
, but I'm genuinely frustrated with your approach here, and I'm trying to discern if this is AI or just playstyle conflict because I'm struggling to understand your perspective and I don't think you were trying to see mine.
If you need to know whether it's playstyle conflict, then go meta me. We've literally played before. I was scum.

Are you more invested in reading me, or telling me off?
I've got a lot of thoughts and I'm not afraid to share them.
this isn't an empowerment disney radio pop song man

share the things that are pro-town to share
one last yes/no question

Do you think us wall v walling is pro-town? Yes or No.
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Post Post #549 (isolation #85) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:15 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 539, Taly wrote:How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?
i just wanna quote/pagebottom this for emphasis on hilarity:

taly seems to think that the draft numbers are randomized :giggle:
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Post Post #552 (isolation #86) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

to my great disappointment, i just came up for air from the metadive and i think taly might have to be town
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Post Post #553 (isolation #87) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Post by Mathdino »

- The current paragon winner won due to being the best general metadiver on this site in history.
I don't claim success rates close to that. I've been specifically working to get better at the meta side of play over the past few months (rolling town a lot helps with that).
Knowing how someone thinks is the single best advantage you can have over them when they're scum.

- Did you seriously just ask me whether I can read people for why they picked the numbers they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd make the votes they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd choose the roles they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd make the posts they did?

Everything is readable if you have the tools to do so. I have data. And yes, there are some players in this game that I CAN read based off the numbers they picked. Hell, I'll fully admit I planned out my opening. I picked 2 because I expected it to fuck over scum (because scum tends to pick 2 in this setup with probability greater than random). But beyond that, I was planning on telling everyone that in my first post.

But I guess all that info is useless, yeah?
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Post Post #555 (isolation #88) » Sat May 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Janwagon: Icon null-town, Beefster probtown, Ircher likely scum onwagon.
Did Ircher jump on the wagon after I started putting heat on the wagon?

Ircherwagon: Likely scum onwagon is mutant.

Ausukawagon: I'm townreading this. Interested in further development.

mutantvote: Duck is probtown.

A50self-vote: What the fuck, dude.

Not Voting: The only one not voting that I'm actually townreading is Taly. Lalendra's ISO goes so far beyond "lynchbaity Lalendra" into the realm of "I am actively not doing anything this game".
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Post Post #558 (isolation #89) » Sat May 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

ITT: people give me shit by claiming that my reads are entirely based around setup spec/the draft and ignore anything outside of math

while A50 proposes a scumteam literally solely based on the draft
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Post Post #566 (isolation #90) » Sat May 05, 2018 10:46 pm

Post by Mathdino »

mutant what games are you using as a reference for my aggressiveness

as i understand we've played 2 games together:
- switch, in which i was a cop with a n0 guilty
- tit for tat

are you claiming i'm currently more aggressive than i was in tit for tat...?
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Post Post #574 (isolation #91) » Sat May 05, 2018 11:56 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i can only assume you completely skimmed the entire argument i had with luca blight in tit for tat

i town lead when i'm in a playerlist that allows me to

some playerlists are weirdly anti-setup spec so i get sidetracked

like i feel like if 3 or 4 people suddenly went "yeah i'll sheep math on this" or "math is clearly the town leader" you'd be reading me differently because of how other slots treat me
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Post Post #621 (isolation #92) » Sun May 06, 2018 12:31 pm

Post by Mathdino »

:good: A VOICE BOOMS FROM ABOVE. :good:


Image

IT SAYS:


"THOU SHALT NOT LYNCH
THAT WHICH CAN BE REPLACED"
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Post Post #630 (isolation #93) » Sun May 06, 2018 8:19 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Lalendra flaking out is not correlated with her alignment guys
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Post Post #636 (isolation #94) » Sun May 06, 2018 8:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Yeah it's almost like this post isn't it
In post 18, Lalendra wrote:I'm not a numbers person, I'm a gut-play kind of person, so I'm usually willing to follow someone who has put that much thought into the setup. I'm not sure what scum!A50 stands to gain from proposing this idea so I think I like it. I also am not usually a NL fan but I see where he's coming from in terms of how a mislynch is only going to hurt us.

Now what I don't understand is, assuming we all target as instructed etc., and scum doesn't activate PGO as you mentioned (because it would be near suicide to do so), how does this position us for D2? We get only one NK as mentioned, but if we don't couple this approach with scumhunting, how do we find scum? How do we tell the difference between a townie and a scum who didn't activate their ability? Do we basically just lather/rinse/repeat the above until the cop gets a guilty (which will probably guarantee the cop's death) and then try to find remaining scum?
I successfully shot doc lalendra and purposefully replaced into PR lalendra
That kind of hesitant shit is nai and if anything is pr indicative
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Post Post #640 (isolation #95) » Sun May 06, 2018 8:33 pm

Post by Mathdino »

This is her opening against me as scum

Subject: Open 705: Polygamist - Game Over
Lalendra wrote:Hi all! Happy New year. Finally got a chance to read and I'm confirming my lover is cy. This is the first time I have played this setup, but as of right now, I'm not getting the best vibes from math. He seems way too eager to peg the ones who followed his early lead on claiming lovers as town. That said, I don't really think that those who claimed after he proposed this approach are the other two scum, because it would be too obvious. I think they were townies who were following his lead. I know it's been said already, but it really feels like the random lynch approach is icky; seems like an easy way to mislynch and then say "oh well, better luck next time." We can't afford that. He even says that if he were confirmed town he would still choose randomly, but I don't believe that's true. The "I know this is scummy but we should do it anyway" just feels like backpedaling. Also not a huge fan of the overly-aggressive "follow the townbloc/sheep me cuz I'm obvtown" tone of his posts thus far. (And before he tries to say this is OMGUS, I feel that I have plenty of reasons for my vote, whereas his is completely arbitrary.)

VOTE: MathDino
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Post Post #643 (isolation #96) » Sun May 06, 2018 8:36 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I just don't like to stall the game out pressuring a lurker
I could end the day lynching lalendra, sure, but it feels like there's more that could be done

A50 slot is town btw

Edit: I'm not making a point, I'm presenting IIOA
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Post Post #745 (isolation #97) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:40 am

Post by Mathdino »

people don't seem to realise that scum has 3 times the brain trust that any individual townie has when it comes to figuring out the setup

it's not like saying factually true things (like oh i guess we have a tracker/jailkeeper above beefster) makes scum think OH SHIT I HADNT THOUGHT OF THAT or THANKS FOR DOING THE WORK FOR US MATHDINO/EDDIE CANE/MUTANT

like, if we didn't do it, 1 scum would take a minute out of their time to do it themselves. there's probably a bookkeeper in the PT keeping track of all that unless scum is totally incompetent

so while claiming is shit, setup spec is pro-town
it takes the info that the few likely already have and disseminates it to the many
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Post Post #754 (isolation #98) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:20 am

Post by Mathdino »

brass metadived me for 719 Stack the Deck. I'm guessing there are components that he didn't publicise.

I'm more interested in questions that lead toward an actionable plan than questions that sort me by dredging up things from 20 pages ago. When you're caught up list all the questions that you're still interested in me answering.

ngl i'm at the point where i'm also not really interested in locktowning yet
i'm not really in many games and the games in queue are pretty lame so i'm kinda hoping to be in this one for a while :/
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Post Post #763 (isolation #99) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:50 am

Post by Mathdino »

95% town: TW, A50slot, Taly

90% town: EDDIE CANE, Beefster/Mylo

probtown idk: Icon, Lovebird, SIMYK

The rest: Ircher, Janitor, Lalendra, mutant

realistically i'm wrong on one of the probtownreads
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Post Post #766 (isolation #100) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:57 am

Post by Mathdino »

can i get you to work for it
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Post Post #769 (isolation #101) » Mon May 07, 2018 10:59 am

Post by Mathdino »

list all the questions

and yeah taly is pretty much locktown

i think i found a secret tell

as much as that means given he has one scumgame lol
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Post Post #783 (isolation #102) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:28 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 770, Eddie Cane wrote:
In post 747, Eddie Cane wrote:Wait.... what? Saske is lock town for picking a large number but scum picks a large number for a guaranteed singleton?
In post 735, Eddie Cane wrote:does mathdino know? yes or no. you'll know what i'm talking about.
In post 753, Eddie Cane wrote:I could use an explanation please. Helps me sort you, not Beef.
In post 757, Eddie Cane wrote:Aren't you supposed to be able to read A50 as we saw in TM? What is his slot here? Solves a lot of stuff. Also, why is there guaranteed scum on the wagon? Past the mathematical likelyhood idgi.
In post 759, Eddie Cane wrote:Level of confidence?
1. scum almost always coordinates the numbers they send in. i find it unlikely someone would assign SIMYK to pick 413.

2. are you asking if i know who SIMYK is? cuz i've said i do a bunch of times

3. reconsideration made me realise that beefster-scum likely doesn't suicide for the 3rd time by immediately voting me for godawful reasons.

4. you saw me tunnel A50 for half the day in TM followed by eventually townreading him. i always leave A50 alive for a day so i can sort him. if i have no reasons to townread him by the end of D1, he's scum.
in this case, yeah he's town.
if janitor is town that messes with a lot of the PoE i have going on. janitor is the kind of player that tends to draw scum votes (specifically relating him to something_smart).
regardless, that's kind of an outdated read. if you're totally sure on mutant, the scum onwagon if janitor is town is probably iconeum.

5. already answered this, i'd say 90-95 (keeping in mind that everyone is slightly more mathematically likely to be town)
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Post Post #784 (isolation #103) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:30 am

Post by Mathdino »

mr cane i feel bamboozled

you spent a bunch of posts talking about how you don't like my feather-soft defence of lalendra (which basically consists of "i don't like wagoning lurkers, we have scumreads available, lalendra is basically null")

and now you're arguing the same thing i did
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Post Post #793 (isolation #104) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:56 am

Post by Mathdino »

i'll tentatively defer to EDDIE CANE's read on you

me calling a TvS 15 pages ago does not lock me into that belief lol

also it occurs to me that i forgot ausuka on my reads list

wtf is ausuka's alignment
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Post Post #796 (isolation #105) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:58 am

Post by Mathdino »

who's the lowest person on the draft in our collective PoE pool btw?

cuz that person should probably get vigged
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Post Post #797 (isolation #106) » Mon May 07, 2018 11:59 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 3, yessiree wrote:
Iconeum
1
the worst
3
Lalendra 5
Ircher
11
SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis
413
Mathdino
2
The Janitor
2
Beefster
4
Taly
4
Almost50
8
mutantdevle
8
Ausuka 6
Lovebird 6
brassherald
6
eyyyy lmao get fucked ausuka
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Post Post #803 (isolation #107) » Mon May 07, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Mathdino »

it's more of a collective representation of the reads of myself and the people i respect

i'm personally townreading lovebird and there's more ausuka paranoia

so get vigged ausuka
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Post Post #818 (isolation #108) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:42 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Hey simyk could you write some fanfiction for the scum pt
With the 3 characters you think are scum
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Post Post #821 (isolation #109) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Janitor is probably the safest lynch tbh
Copcheck Ircher, Vig Ausuka/Lovebird?

We should set some guidelines for what vig targets would cause us to lynch the vig
It's not at all unlikely that scum got vig
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Post Post #824 (isolation #110) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 3, yessiree wrote:Beefster 4
Taly 4
Almost50 8
mutantdevle 8
Ausuka 6
Lovebird 6
brassherald 6
I would say vigging above this section of the draft is lynchable

Vigging Taly, A50slot, and EDDIE CANE should also be punishable by death

So vigpool imo should be Myloninja13 (who will lurk), Ausuka, Lovebird
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Post Post #825 (isolation #111) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 823, Lovebird wrote:Why would we vig me?
In post 824, Mathdino wrote:
In post 3, yessiree wrote:Beefster 4
Taly 4
Almost50 8
mutantdevle 8
Ausuka 6
Lovebird 6
brassherald 6
I would say vigging above this section of the draft is lynchable

Vigging Taly, A50slot, and EDDIE CANE should also be punishable by death

So vigpool imo should be Myloninja13 (who will lurk), Ausuka, Lovebird
You're low on the draft and a null read for a bunch of people
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Post Post #828 (isolation #112) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Tracker is irrelevant
The vig will claim eventually, if people lie about their claims we can flush them out using the draft
So if 2 people die and they're both not in those 3 people
We have a scum vig
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Post Post #830 (isolation #113) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Lovebird please list your scumreads and then list which scumreads can't be scum together
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Post Post #837 (isolation #114) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:55 pm

Post by Mathdino »

OK lovebirds reads are backwards enough that I'd be cool with a policyvig there

Simyk did you see my request for a scum pt fanfic
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Post Post #841 (isolation #115) » Mon May 07, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

?
I mean Ausuka is still a more likely vig
I think you're more likely town than Ausuka
I'm just saying I wouldn't lynch someone who vigged you
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Post Post #847 (isolation #116) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 843, Eddie Cane wrote:are you caught up lovebird?
mathdino, have you rolled scum with a50 before?
No, and I'm not entirely sure I want to out what kinds of gambits we would pull
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Post Post #848 (isolation #117) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

The first time I roll scum with a50 will be a very special experience
Can't ruin that, not even to improve this towngame :P
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Post Post #854 (isolation #118) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:12 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 851, Ircher wrote:Oh really? Then why are you not pushing those scumreads. (I mean, if you are talking about me, you have said you scumread me all, but you aren't really pushing your scumread of me in a way that is leading anywhere.) The Janitor wagon has existed all game, and it has basically gone... nowhere. And I don't see you pushing any other scumreads.
Mathdino: Let's not wagon Lalendra, let's wagon scumreads like Janitor/Ircher instead.

Ircher: WHY ARE YOU NOT PUSHING YOUR SCUMREADS?

the janitor wagon is dead

also thanks for the PR softclaim
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Post Post #858 (isolation #119) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Post by Mathdino »

you already commented

asking to be lynched rather than vigged when we had no intention of ever vigging you is literally a PR softclaim
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Post Post #860 (isolation #120) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:15 pm

Post by Mathdino »

mr eddie motherfucking cane

do we lynch a guaranteed PR like ircher

or just lynch janitor and see what ircher does at night
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Post Post #862 (isolation #121) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:17 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 850, Eddie Cane wrote:{Mathdino, Ausuka, Lalendra, Myloninja13, The Janitor, Lovebird, Ircher}
notable that ausuka and lovebird cannot be scum together

removing myself from this list that creates

scum in {Ausuka/Lovebird, Lalendra, Myloninja, Janitor, Ircher}

only 5 slots for scum feels wrong

these are ally uncharismatic lurky lynchbaity players

who's deepwolfing
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Post Post #863 (isolation #122) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 862, Mathdino wrote:these are ally uncharismatic lurky lynchbaity players
*these are all
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Post Post #866 (isolation #123) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by Mathdino »

yes, for the purpose of leashing night actions and baiting nightkills

eddie cane see comments on the lynchpool

how the fuck is the lynchpool ALL the standard lynchbaity people
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Post Post #870 (isolation #124) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:23 pm

Post by Mathdino »

okay good i agree that there's 2 scum in there

i just don't think we're at a gamesolve yet, things still feel wrong

i don't currently disagree with your townreads no

i haven't actually ISO'd mutant tbh
if A50 scum-replaced out then yeah davesaz will claim scum down the line

i kinda wanna leave davesaz alive so he can solve the setup using pure logic and superior traits yknow :P
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Post Post #872 (isolation #125) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:24 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 869, mutantdevle wrote:Also, just as a general warning to everyone: DON'T. FUCKING. CRUMB. OR. SOFT.

Scum WILL find you. They may even figure out your exact role. They're good at it in this setup and so many people in the past have been killed for it.
i tentatively agree with this?

i had a huge leg up on scum actually the last time i played this setup

but that's because i was in a neighbourhood and the neighborizer was getting other claims elsewhere and we were coming up with secret night action plans, etc etc

so i'm pretty confident i'm better at catching crumbs than the scumteam this game

but as a general statement yes please don't soft
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Post Post #873 (isolation #126) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 871, Eddie Cane wrote:I also didnt notice that one FTR. Dave probably did though with his age, education, and experience.
it's age / experience / education get it right

i will have you know that that was a VERY STRESSFUL GAME for my team
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Post Post #875 (isolation #127) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:27 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i mean let's be honest tho

is there anything wrong with drawing the nightkill to ircher

i guess if scum have a roleblock/jailkeep/redirector then sure
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Post Post #892 (isolation #128) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:37 pm

Post by Mathdino »

oh yeah that reminds me the super obvious deepwolf would be iconeum

he's harder to read than he looks and he picked 1 sooooo
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Post Post #902 (isolation #129) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:46 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Im not seeing the analogy, what part
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Post Post #914 (isolation #130) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:56 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 900, Eddie Cane wrote:Taly is one of the most obnoxious people ive seen lmao what the fuck

It's like that kid who tells the teacher you came in 30 seconds late or rattles on you for shoving Jimmy
In post 902, Mathdino wrote:Im not seeing the analogy, what part
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Post Post #916 (isolation #131) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:00 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 549, Mathdino wrote:
In post 539, Taly wrote:How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?
i just wanna quote/pagebottom this for emphasis on hilarity:

taly seems to think that the draft numbers are randomized :giggle:
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Post Post #925 (isolation #132) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:16 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Hey Eddie Cane we both generally trust simyk
Why is she wrong about the janitor?
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Post Post #927 (isolation #133) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I am much more likely to read some yaoi scumteam fanfiction than I am to read a dumb case
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Post Post #930 (isolation #134) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:26 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I mean you're clearly town
I don't think anyone was suspecting you for not being around
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Post Post #935 (isolation #135) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:32 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I can't really compromise with your reads considering you're townreading my entire lynchpool

While your scumreads are 2 people that should mechanically not be lynched today and 1 person that needs to be alive for vig fodder
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Post Post #941 (isolation #136) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:35 pm

Post by Mathdino »

No way in hell I'm lynching Iconeum today

Edit: meh its not a parody of something funny enough in the first place
A50 parodies I'll eat up tho
Or davesaz
Taly is just standard wallposter but with bolder names
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Post Post #945 (isolation #137) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:37 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I mean how much of a dick move would it be if I tried to reveal lol
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Post Post #949 (isolation #138) » Mon May 07, 2018 3:43 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Then it implicates lalendra
Fact remains that she's highly likely to be a good pr
Give her and icon a night imo
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Post Post #957 (isolation #139) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by Mathdino »

If you think about it this game is basically stalling on SIMYK posting the Ircher case so she can finally get to writing the fanfic

Should we wagon simyk for bamboozling

Edit: shit never mind then
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Post Post #963 (isolation #140) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I'm going to unvote off the lynch wagon if I don't get some yaoi before eod
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Post Post #967 (isolation #141) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:12 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Sounds good! Hs AU where the scumteam is the rich kids clique pls
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Post Post #972 (isolation #142) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:15 pm

Post by Mathdino »

I just love your ffn fics and anything like that about the scum pt this game (ideally discussing the logic behind the draft as well) would be very convincing
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Post Post #984 (isolation #143) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:32 pm

Post by Mathdino »

People don't like being made fun of in a game about arguing with people about who to murder
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Post Post #987 (isolation #144) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:35 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Yeah it's bad but I still think lovebird is town tbh
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Post Post #989 (isolation #145) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:44 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Lynch Ircher
Vig Ausuka
Lynch Janitor
Lynch Iconeum
Vig Lalendra
Lynch Lovebird
Lynch Myloninja13

I think this wins even without the 6 other power roles
Assumes we have 1shot vig and n3 vig ofc but i rarely see games without them

PRs copclearing questionable slots and making good saves gives us more lynches too
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Post Post #991 (isolation #146) » Mon May 07, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by Mathdino »

lovebird that's literally because ausuka's getting vigged

let's lynch someone we can actually lynch thanks

it does not benefit us to force a claim from the #1 spot

like ok great he claims cop, then what do we do, lynch him anywya?
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Post Post #999 (isolation #147) » Mon May 07, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Janitor or Myloninja probably
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #148) » Mon May 07, 2018 5:28 pm

Post by Mathdino »

then you're literally never gonna get a lynch that you like unless you start actually pushing your reads
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Post Post #1003 (isolation #149) » Mon May 07, 2018 5:30 pm

Post by Mathdino »

why do you aggressively not give a shit about what happens this game
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #150) » Mon May 07, 2018 6:51 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Eddie Cane, TW, and SIMYK are my reads-bloc.

I don't really care about people calling your posts "townish at the least" (this is clearly an exaggeration). The arguments were basically "oh the reasons for scumreading Janitor are lame, that's just his playstyle". And then a bunch of people townreading you for your playstyle. And for arguing with me. These are all NAI things.
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Post Post #1010 (isolation #151) » Mon May 07, 2018 6:58 pm

Post by Mathdino »

And Eddie Cane cancels that out. Neither are in a position to meta you, so of my trust-bloc that's 2 scumreading you, 1 nullreading you, and 1 townreading you.

...are you really asking me why I'm arguing for killing people on policy?
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #152) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:16 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 539, Taly wrote:
Spoiler:
In post 528, Taly wrote:
1) the worst
, what are your reads at the moment? A quick look through your ISO and I see a lot of responses and some fluffy posts. What do you think of
Ausuka
at the moment, in retrospect to your vote on her - and what about
Almost50
gives you townvibes?
I'll quote this so it sticks into your memory.

I'd also like to know why you'd want to lynch
mutant
, I still don't fully see the scumreads on him?
Mathdino wrote:- ALL scumhunting is luck. Using calculations based on empirical evidence is no different. I show my work when appropriate.
If someone's draft number makes them 15% more likely to be scum, how is that any different from the tone of someone's post making them 15% more likely to be scum?
How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

You're completely ignoring any information that someone can use to detect someone as scum or town that DOESN'T come from mathematical probabilities or subsets from numbers. Simplying scumhunting as complete luck is a DIRECT simplification of a subjective game. Right now, you're coming to me based off semantics and not off the idea of trying to UNDERSTAND something in a subjective realm where we can communicate our ideas.

This mentality does little to nothing in helping someone see your point of view in this game.
Mathdino wrote:- Your Ircher townread is based off of agreeing that you don't like my shit
Stopping you right here, because you're wrong.

I never said that the setup spec was inherently wrong to do; I stated that there's no practical reason for discussing it off NO defined information.

Me Saying-
"I don't like what
Mathdino's
doing here"

and
"I don't see the point of what
Mathdino's
doing at the moment, and I agree with this other person's approach"


ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.


Reread my post.
Mathdino wrote:and on the notion that effort is alignment-indicative.
And instead of trying to UNDERSTAND my townread, you're minimizing MY OPINION.

- Did I say I townread Ircher because of effort?
Yeah, to a degree.
- Did I say that that was the SOLE reason I townread him because of effort?
Fucking no. I saw no scum-motivation from the depth within his reads and he wasn't using his developed reads as a source to create WIFOM or unnecessarily scumread or townread someone WITHOUT REASON.
Mathdino wrote:Ircher is doing nothing to move the game forward or to push his agenda.
I disagree, he's provides tons of content to look at later in the game when flips have been discovered.

But I do agree in the fact that he doesn't have an agenda... because what the fuck agenda would town need in this game other than townhunt and scumhunt?
Mathdino wrote:His reads list reads to me like he wanted to dump a massive amount of effort while under pressure to get one or two suckers off his back.
This sounds extremely overconfident and highly tunnel-minded.

You're making the assumption that someone ENGAGING with the people suspecting them are coming from a scum mentality?

What the hell are you hoping to figure out by pushing
Ircher
with this mentality?

Another thing is, I REPLIED with a better elaboration of my Ircher townread in the first place. If you disagreed with me, you could ask me questions on my explanations or put up a case LIKE I WAS PRODDING PEOPLE TO DO.

Mathdino wrote:- There are certain people that are straight up bad lynches for a variety of reasons. Confidence in a scumread doesn't mean I'm willing to take the gamble of lynching them. Lynching an A50 who I think is scum with, say, >40% confidence (which is about the threshold it takes for me to lynch someone) is high-risk low-reward. Scum A50 is not difficult to lynch and only has as much influence as town gives him.
This still doesn't give any game evidence or intrinsic reasoning behind why you wouldn't pursue a confident scumread.

Are you genuinely looking at other people to find more general confidence in your reads, or are you unsure of Almost50? I don't understand your thought process here.
Mathdino wrote:- I can't think of anything to say or ask to you that would harden a read. Your posting style is easy to hide behind as scum. It's difficult to gauge the sincerity. I need associatives and flips for you. Kind of like A50 actually.
:igmeou: If you can't figure out anything to say or ask me, then ISO me until you do. It's really not that difficult from my perspective.

Or just keep engaging with me like this and hopefully I don't rip my hair out. I elaborated on my townread, and I'm not fond with the way you tried deconstruct one of the few reasoned townreads on
Ircher
.

And I'm taking this a step further and saying that I think
Ircher
could be town because there's literally NOBODY from what I've been reading the past few pages - correct me if I'm wrong - that's actually trying to assess the points of any case against him outside of agreeing or taking a neutral stance.

And I'm guessing you're not certain of your
Almost50
read?

:facepalm:...
if you could call this post respecting different playstyles, then sure
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #153) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:17 pm

Post by Mathdino »

like i feel like the me/taly debate is largely behind us
anything i'm doing at this point is just poking fun

but your WKing is literally wrong

and i feel like it's politically minded
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Post Post #1017 (isolation #154) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:19 pm

Post by Mathdino »

ausuka what's your success rate at reading ircher and what's your current confidence level as to his alignment
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Post Post #1024 (isolation #155) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:24 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1023, the worst wrote:
In post 1021, Ausuka wrote:success rate thus far at reading him is 100%
ircher is likely town and I'm probably about 80% that he is? not as much as usual

that said you're probably going to lynch him anyway so do whatever
Regardless of Ausuka's alignment this is earnest.

Can we lynch Lalen now?
UNVOTE:

okay

next question

why the fuck haven't you been screaming at everyone that ircher is town when ircher has been by far the most likely lynch for the majority of the day

i was waiting for you to come into the thread and actually state a read and you did jackshit
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Post Post #1028 (isolation #156) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:26 pm

Post by Mathdino »

oh i agree that it's earnest regardless of ausuka's alignment
but the fact that ausuka waited this goddamn long is incredibly +scum for ausuka
like it's a straight up pro-scum thing to do (or not do in this case)

Edit: ...
is half of the original playerlist just gamethrowing or what
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #157) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:31 pm

Post by Mathdino »

vig ausuka because no risk of misvigging a town PR

like honestly i'm just wanting to vig people who lost the draft that are also somewhat suspect

my vigpool is not nearly as likely-scum as my lynchpool

but i don't feel like massclaiming the top half of the draft

Edit: then you're straight up not reading the game
i've said multiple times that the game doesn't feel solved and that i'm still working on it
you have more authority on ircher than SIMYK does

do you give a shit if he's lynched: yes/no
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Post Post #1040 (isolation #158) » Mon May 07, 2018 7:42 pm

Post by Mathdino »

that post is basically just "meh this pings me but also idk and i don't really wanna lynch him when i can just sort him later"

that's a nothing post
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #159) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:53 am

Post by Mathdino »

right but does it matter

if town doesn't have them and scum makes bad shots, we can just lynch them

we have the leverage here. yeah they can use it as an extra kill, but they either remove people from the lynchpool or put themselves in the lynchpool come massclaim

leashing scum ftw
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Post Post #1090 (isolation #160) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by Mathdino »

hey that's L-1

intent to policyhammer this shit to kingdom come
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Post Post #1091 (isolation #161) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:03 pm

Post by Mathdino »

to think! i was just about to push janitor instead
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Post Post #1110 (isolation #162) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:36 pm

Post by Mathdino »

oh my bad it's 8 to lynch not 7 to lynch

i'm autohammering if someone L-1s him
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Post Post #1138 (isolation #163) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

like i said, i'm saving my vote for the autohammer
consider me on ircher

VOTE: Janitor
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Post Post #1146 (isolation #164) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Mathdino »

TW what exactly is your trajectory going to be if/when lalendra flips town
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Post Post #1176 (isolation #165) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:30 am

Post by Mathdino »

course i do. if they don't use it to decrease our lynchpool either tonight or tomorrow night (or N3 for N3 vig), we lynch them.

if someone claims vengeful, we lynch them.

if someone claims PGO, we question their sanity and probably lynch them.

and of course, if they make an unsafe shot, we lynch them.

used correctly, the vigs give us effectively one extra lynch, regardless of which alignment holds it.
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Post Post #1177 (isolation #166) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:30 am

Post by Mathdino »

also the current gamestate bores me

which is sad because this is gonna be the only game i'm in for a while
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Post Post #1183 (isolation #167) » Wed May 09, 2018 1:44 am

Post by Mathdino »

In post 2, yessiree wrote:Night 3 Vigilante OR Vengeful
1-Shot Vigilante OR 1-Shot PGO (active)
Cop OR 1-Shot Redirector
1-Shot Commuter OR 1-Shot Watcher
Doctor OR Roleblocker
Universal Backup OR Role Cop
Neighborizer OR Fruit Vendor
Jailkeeper OR Tracker
Best scum roles:
Cop, because it steals it from town and is green to Trackers, Rolecops, everything except "why are you still alive" in lategame.

Roleblocker/Jailkeeper, for obvious reasons.

Neighborizer, because scum neighborizers are laughably good and function as rolecops anyway.
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #168) » Wed May 09, 2018 4:55 am

Post by Mathdino »

she benefits from it more often when she's town lol

i wouldn't call her scumgame especially top tier
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Post Post #1282 (isolation #169) » Wed May 09, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by Mathdino »

remember to count me on the ircher wagon when you scumread everyone on it
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Post Post #1288 (isolation #170) » Thu May 10, 2018 1:26 am

Post by Mathdino »

tfw i wrote that entire page
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Post Post #1316 (isolation #171) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by Mathdino »

eddie mfin cane i didn't realise you were polling everyone

reads look something like

high town: Taly, SIMYK, TW

likely town: Eddie Cane, davesaz, mutant (sheeping)

nulltown: Myloninja, Lovebird, Ircher

everyone else: Ausuka, Iconeum, Lalendra, Janitor

if i'm wrong about a townread it's either
- the worst, who is good at scum
or
- A50/davesaz, who will claim scum by play down the line anyway
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Post Post #1321 (isolation #172) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:36 pm

Post by Mathdino »

she's definitely just lynchbaity

ircher your defence is terrible because policy lynches are good and intimidate scum into not doing openly anti-town things
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Post Post #1323 (isolation #173) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:40 pm

Post by Mathdino »

why should i give a shit how risky it was

what matters is that it's blatantly anti-town lol
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Post Post #1326 (isolation #174) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:43 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1324, Ircher wrote:What do scum accomplish from a self-voting? A weak AtE argument. How many times do I have to explain this anyway? I've already done it like twice.
they gain the ability to call their wagon a policy-wagon and start going on about how self-voting comes from town more often than scum

i've lost to scum self-voters don't give me this shit
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Post Post #1331 (isolation #175) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:49 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i generally agree with the sentiment that "if lalendra is scum, y'all got lucky"

she happens to be in the PoE pool

and keep in mind she's going to be an important mislynch candidate for scum if she's town
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Post Post #1342 (isolation #176) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by Mathdino »

whomst've been a better vote?
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #177) » Thu May 10, 2018 4:23 pm

Post by Mathdino »

still think lynch janitor --> vig ausuka is the right call here

ausuka and lovebird clearly not scum together

lovebird has a lot more towntells than ausuka
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Post Post #1376 (isolation #178) » Thu May 10, 2018 4:26 pm

Post by Mathdino »

please don't put me in a position to have to hard-defend lovebird and lalendra of all slots though
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Post Post #1380 (isolation #179) » Thu May 10, 2018 4:30 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1377, Lovebird wrote:I thought you had some secret tells on me or something.
wat

i outed that tell when i failed to use it correctly, remember?

scum-you probably adapted if scum
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Post Post #1387 (isolation #180) » Thu May 10, 2018 7:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

it's more often town than scum because more players are town than scum, full stop

that doesn't mean it increases the chance that a player is town

also i don't see anything all that different considering he still appears to be avoiding providing anything useful
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #181) » Thu May 10, 2018 8:43 pm

Post by Mathdino »

yeah it's because she's nearly guaranteed to be a power role
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Post Post #1398 (isolation #182) » Thu May 10, 2018 9:21 pm

Post by Mathdino »

who in {janitor, iconeum, ausuka, lovebird} is defending her exactly
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Post Post #1401 (isolation #183) » Thu May 10, 2018 9:23 pm

Post by Mathdino »

remind me why we're not just copping the upper sect of the playerlist, lynching the midsection, and vigging the bottom
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Post Post #1405 (isolation #184) » Thu May 10, 2018 9:39 pm

Post by Mathdino »

part of me thinks that the worst is trying to adopt not_mafia's scum meta lol
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #185) » Thu May 10, 2018 9:45 pm

Post by Mathdino »

i hope everyone understands that "math doesn't want to lynch a highly likely PR on D1" is different from "math is getting pocketed by people who townreads him"

also i think by PoE one of {ausuka, lovebird} has to be scum

i'd be willing to consider lovebird only if ausuka flipped town tbh
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Post Post #1441 (isolation #186) » Fri May 11, 2018 5:19 am

Post by Mathdino »

christ it's 4 days left?

i prefer lynching you over lovebird

which sucks because i townread lovebird's wagon so much more

just claim
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Post Post #1498 (isolation #187) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:00 pm

Post by Mathdino »

FUCK YOU GUYS, LOVEBIRD IS FUCKING TOWN AND HERE'S WHY

READ THIS IF YOU'RE SCUMREADING HER, FOOLS

In post 7, Lovebird wrote:VOTE: math
Why did you pick 2
2 is one of the scummiest numbers in this setup, this was a valid question to ask. I can see this as scum if scum with Janitor (chainsaw defending his draft pick) but then we should probably fucking flip Janitor (the scummier player) first, no?
In post 9, Lovebird wrote:Btw, I asked a friend if I should pick 6 or 7. I thought 7, but she said 6. Annoying.
The scumteam coordinated the draft picks. They've done so in every iteration of this setup. Lovebird as scum would not be the one to coordinate everything.

I don't think Lovebird out of the blue comes up with a great idea to lie about where she got her number from. She was the first one to do this, and this is why she was town originally.
In post 273, Lovebird wrote:
In post 157, Ausuka wrote:snip
In post 162, Ausuka wrote:snip
In post 170, Ausuka wrote:snip
Ausuka is scum

VOTE: Ausuka
There's no argument here or effort to push Ausuka (despite Ausuka having a lot of scum equity).

Unexplained gutreads are fucking townish, people. You just don't like how she plays.
In post 506, Lovebird wrote:
In post 302, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:LOVEBIRD can you TALK TO ME about WHY this sort of reasoning is MORE likely to come from scum? Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)
[snip]
Also where do YOU think Math-sensei's townread of you is coming from? (ノ^ヮ^)ノ*:・゚✧
Just, scummy way of talking. Nervousness, skittish.

Idk, I tricked math as scum before. Fine with him townreading me, though :)
And Lovebird did have reasons the whole time. Scum-Lovebird makes an effort to actually show that she's doing work instead of just plopping a vote on someone. If Lovebird were scum,
you would be townreading her.


And ffs she dismantled my townread of her by bragging about having tricked me, which is something that I never brought up. (key: she tricked me by just acting like powertown)

Me dropping the ball on defending her is part of why she's in this position. This is literally an anti-scum move if she's scum.
In post 839, Lovebird wrote:Ok bye.
In post 844, Lovebird wrote:
In post 843, Eddie Cane wrote:are you caught up lovebird?
Stopped reading
This was after I suggested policyvigging Lovebird.

Dying is worse for your alignment as scum than it is as town. Lovebird-scum is entirely capable of towning it up, instead she gives up.

The reason the "woe is me" doesn't fly with me usually is because scum use it for AtE. The question is whether Lovebird in particular just gives up on the game
WITH A DAYTALK SCUMTEAM
.

No, she fucking doesn't. She's town who doesn't give a shit.
In post 974, Lovebird wrote:Not explainging things isn't my scum style. Everyone just always townreads big walls and explanations anyways.
Proof that Lovebird is fully aware of how to be townread in a game like this.
In post 937, Lovebird wrote:VOTE: Iconeum
In post 994, Lovebird wrote:Idk.

VOTE: Taly
These votes are suicidal. Lovebird is practically asking to be lynched here. If she were a Vengeful, then sure, but she wouldn't be demotivated about me asking her to be vigged if she were literally the vig/vengeful.
In post 1370, Lovebird wrote:
In post 1365, Eddie Cane wrote:
In post 1345, Lovebird wrote:Only taking out eddie and mutant because I think ausuka is scum.
I don't get the correlation?
You and ausuka both picked six. So, don't townread you, but if ausuka is scum then you'd be town. Think mutant is scum if you're scum, if you're town then your read probably right on him
This is nuanced reasoning and it actually makes sense from her POV. But again, she didn't make a show of it like she does as scum. She's holding her cards close.

Lovebird is town. I will only accept her death on an Ausuka townflip.
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Post Post #1499 (isolation #188) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:05 pm

Post by Mathdino »

On some level I do have to thank you guys for being dumb because I'm actually invested in the game now with someone to white knight.
In post 1479, yessiree wrote:
VC 1.21

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch


Lovebird (6) [L-2] -
Eddie Cane, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis, Taly, Lalendra, mutantdevle, Ausuka
Lalendra (5) -
Ircher, Myloninja13, Lovebird, Iconeum, the worst
The Janitor (2) -
Mathdino, davesaz

Not voting
- The Janitor

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-05-15 20:00:00)
This is a town motivated wagon. Eddie, SIMYK, Taly all likely town. Scum are hopping on near the end most likely. Guaranteed scum in {Lalendra, Ausuka}.

Wouldn't be surprised if Lalendra is getting bussed in the hopes that powertown pushes through Lovebird either.

But also note that Lalendra is a more important target for scum (if she's town) than Lovebird, as LB's almost certainly a VT.

So town, get your asses off Lovebird. If you don't like Lalendra's wagon, fine, we lynch Ausuka and vig Lovebird on a scumflip. I prefer The Janitor but Lalendra is a liability at this point anyway.
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Post Post #1500 (isolation #189) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:10 pm

Post by Mathdino »

hell no i am not taking a pagebottom
In post 1498, Mathdino wrote:
FUCK YOU GUYS, LOVEBIRD IS FUCKING TOWN AND HERE'S WHY

READ THIS IF YOU'RE SCUMREADING HER, FOOLS

In post 7, Lovebird wrote:VOTE: math
Why did you pick 2
2 is one of the scummiest numbers in this setup, this was a valid question to ask. I can see this as scum if scum with Janitor (chainsaw defending his draft pick) but then we should probably fucking flip Janitor (the scummier player) first, no?
In post 9, Lovebird wrote:Btw, I asked a friend if I should pick 6 or 7. I thought 7, but she said 6. Annoying.
The scumteam coordinated the draft picks. They've done so in every iteration of this setup. Lovebird as scum would not be the one to coordinate everything.

I don't think Lovebird out of the blue comes up with a great idea to lie about where she got her number from. She was the first one to do this, and this is why she was town originally.
In post 273, Lovebird wrote:
In post 157, Ausuka wrote:snip
In post 162, Ausuka wrote:snip
In post 170, Ausuka wrote:snip
Ausuka is scum

VOTE: Ausuka
There's no argument here or effort to push Ausuka (despite Ausuka having a lot of scum equity).

Unexplained gutreads are fucking townish, people. You just don't like how she plays.
In post 506, Lovebird wrote:
In post 302, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:LOVEBIRD can you TALK TO ME about WHY this sort of reasoning is MORE likely to come from scum? Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)
[snip]
Also where do YOU think Math-sensei's townread of you is coming from? (ノ^ヮ^)ノ*:・゚✧
Just, scummy way of talking. Nervousness, skittish.

Idk, I tricked math as scum before. Fine with him townreading me, though :)
And Lovebird did have reasons the whole time. Scum-Lovebird makes an effort to actually show that she's doing work instead of just plopping a vote on someone. If Lovebird were scum,
you would be townreading her.


And ffs she dismantled my townread of her by bragging about having tricked me, which is something that I never brought up. (key: she tricked me by just acting like powertown)

Me dropping the ball on defending her is part of why she's in this position. This is literally an anti-scum move if she's scum.
In post 839, Lovebird wrote:Ok bye.
In post 844, Lovebird wrote:
In post 843, Eddie Cane wrote:are you caught up lovebird?
Stopped reading
This was after I suggested policyvigging Lovebird.

Dying is worse for your alignment as scum than it is as town. Lovebird-scum is entirely capable of towning it up, instead she gives up.

The reason the "woe is me" doesn't fly with me usually is because scum use it for AtE. The question is whether Lovebird in particular just gives up on the game
WITH A DAYTALK SCUMTEAM
.

No, she fucking doesn't. She's town who doesn't give a shit.
In post 974, Lovebird wrote:Not explainging things isn't my scum style. Everyone just always townreads big walls and explanations anyways.
Proof that Lovebird is fully aware of how to be townread in a game like this.
In post 937, Lovebird wrote:VOTE: Iconeum
In post 994, Lovebird wrote:Idk.

VOTE: Taly
These votes are suicidal. Lovebird is practically asking to be lynched here. If she were a Vengeful, then sure, but she wouldn't be demotivated about me asking her to be vigged if she were literally the vig/vengeful.
In post 1370, Lovebird wrote:
In post 1365, Eddie Cane wrote:
In post 1345, Lovebird wrote:Only taking out eddie and mutant because I think ausuka is scum.
I don't get the correlation?
You and ausuka both picked six. So, don't townread you, but if ausuka is scum then you'd be town. Think mutant is scum if you're scum, if you're town then your read probably right on him
This is nuanced reasoning and it actually makes sense from her POV. But again, she didn't make a show of it like she does as scum. She's holding her cards close.

Lovebird is town. I will only accept her death on an Ausuka townflip.
REMINDER: You're scumreading Lovebird because you don't like how she's been playing, not because she's actually done anything objectively scum-indicative.
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Post Post #1502 (isolation #190) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:16 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Because not making sense is a scumtell now? Come on. She's been spending the entire game calling people town that she could've jumped on or wagoned. She entered saying "yknow, everyone so far is probably town". She called Ircher town, displayed dissatisfaction with enough wagons to decide to try voting Iconeum and Taly of all people. I didn't say her reads were GOOD (although I trust her on Ausuka here, Ausuka can be tone-read AFAIK).

Like I just said, scum are NOT trying to lynch a VT. This wagon is town-motivated and probably only has 1 scum on it (unless Lalendra is scum, in which case maybe 2 scum). Scum are trying to lynch and/or bus Lalendra.

And The Janitor is getting ignored.
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Post Post #1505 (isolation #191) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:20 pm

Post by Mathdino »

PYP X/Y is insanely difficult to get a scumlynch on D1 due to numbers. And when scum IS lynched on D1, it's because of bussing or a hilariously bad scumteam.

That alone should tell you Lovebird is town. Frustrating for me because it kinda makes D1 a lost cause. We're probably collectively wrong on a townread somewhere.

But on top of that, it seems like you guys are just assuming Lovebird is some shit scum player when she's really not at all.

Lovebird isn't actually a god of scumplay, but she's BASICALLY a god of scumplay.
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Post Post #1506 (isolation #192) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:22 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1503, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Not making sense is SCUMMY when it shows that you're EMOTIONALLY detached to people's posting

HOW was Ausuka-chan nervous or skittish? Her posting does NOT strike me that way Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)
Bullshit. Again, if she wanted to pounce on Ausuka having a weird tone (which she generally does have), she could've easily said "this feels nervous/scummy, VOTE: Ausuka" instead of just "yep scum VOTE: [Someone No One Is Scumreading]" (which is a thing she did like 3 or 4 times).
In post 1504, SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis wrote:Whom is the one scum? Davesaz? Ircher? Lalendra?
Any of the above. I don't have as good a handle on the collective PoE pool to tell you who's scum, but Lovebird is by FAR the towniest of our lynch options today.

Scum-bird doesn't get wagoned...
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Post Post #1509 (isolation #193) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:26 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Yes, she WOULD attempt to mimic her town way of pushing things.

THIS ISN'T HOW SHE DOES THAT. GO META HER.

Having an offgame (and honestly probably being disappointed that she didn't get a power role) is not scum-indicative.

Hammers on Lovebird are scum btw.
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Post Post #1512 (isolation #194) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:40 pm

Post by Mathdino »

Won't You Be My Neighbor is the one where she tricked me.

I meta'd her and successfully found a towntell/scumtell, and then royally fucked up the execution not realising that she'd dropped the scumtell.

Then I outed the tell :facepalm:
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Post Post #1515 (isolation #195) » Sat May 12, 2018 7:57 pm

Post by Mathdino »

It's only non-applicable if you think Lovebird has valid associations or reads arbitrary enough to indicate that she's protecting her scumbuddies or is aware of who's scum. It applies however to her ability to fake reasoning, fake reads, and not spew her knowledge of who's town.
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Post Post #1520 (isolation #196) » Sat May 12, 2018 8:27 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1519, the worst wrote:It's just
Lalendra's
posting style

I
played
with her in a recent game where she was obviously town and still panicked that she might be scum
agreed
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Post Post #1523 (isolation #197) » Sat May 12, 2018 8:29 pm

Post by Mathdino »

we should either lynch janitor through a claim or lalendra through a claim

i prefer janitor, lalendra feels like a designated mislynch
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Post Post #1525 (isolation #198) » Sat May 12, 2018 8:33 pm

Post by Mathdino »

In post 1524, the worst wrote:If Lalendra flips green I'll sheep you
and if she were lower down the draft i'd take you up on that offer every time

the problem is that 7 times out of 10 she flips not just green but green power role

my ability to 100% read lalendra was tied to my ability to read her as a power role. i successfully intentionally replaced into a PR-lalendra slot in MLOASR

of course PRs aren't alignment indicative soooo
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Post Post #1528 (isolation #199) » Sat May 12, 2018 8:38 pm

Post by Mathdino »

actually now that i think about it

why would scum bus their most powerful PR?

this only makes sense if she's scum with you (fucking lol, highkey possible) or iconeum
or if she actually didn't get her pick after all

we need that claim in order to work this out

but you have to admit that the lovebird wagon is the town-driven one while the lalendra wagon is scum-driven
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