Exactly?In post 1354, Gorkington wrote:p-edit: theres a wagon on tchill?
Gunner Mafia [Endgame]
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Why?In post 1356, Gorkington wrote:like, i think it should be clear at this point that actively pushing for a counterwagon when tchill is unsorted is going to derail the momentum of the game.
the best use for my vote is putting it on the main wagon unless im townreading tchill, which im not.
Def not just jumping on the biggest BW with a naked vote like that is magically going to do somethingIn post 1356, Gorkington wrote:i dont understand what you think i should be doing right now otherwise?
especially since ive made it clear i dont have much time for actively reading this game this week?
@Thor, Why was Gork Town for that post?- Quick
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I'm not taking a stance on the wagon. Whether Chill flips Town or Scum here you look bad both ways. If Chill is Town, it's opportunistic, if he is Scum, it's a buss without reasoning attached.In post 1357, Gorkington wrote:can you talk about why youre taking stances on the wagon instead of the player?- Quick
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I sorta agree... I actually think where people react angrily to a push on them it makes them more often Town, but given the nature of Thor's push, I would say it's pretty NAI.In post 1360, GreyICE wrote:
1) I wish you'd respond to the entire post, this chopping posts to bits and responding to a small part makes me not want to talk to youIn post 1352, Thor665 wrote:
You don't think that him getting legit pissed about me mocking the entire concept of his town game as performed here is alignment indicative?In post 1349, GreyICE wrote:As they say, NAI. You pissed him off, he got pissed off. That's genuine. It's also not alignment indicative.
Why would he get legit pissed if he was scum?
2) Yes, responding angrily to mockery is NAI. It should not be hard to figure out why.
Do you know your role yet, or do you want to keep up the charade a bit longer?- Quick
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I can see that as a possible alternative to why you voted them, but then why didn't you state your reasoning that you have here when you originally voted them? You can see my point has merit right?In post 1364, Gorkington wrote:or it could be that tchill is low on content and pressure is a decent way of trying to enforce him following through on delivering that content?
youre acting like voting someone does nothing, but if i voted another player, the momentum on tchill could have staggered and then he would essentially be allowed to continue lurking if hes scum with no repercussions. its not as though its "magically" doing something, but it is reinforcing that i personally want to see content from him and until he delivers im continuing to vote him.
we could get into a big argument over whether votes actually cause pressure on players, but we're literally 8 days from deadline at this point. regardless of whether im town or scum, it shouldnt be hard to piece together that my intention isnt to lynch, but to cause pressure or to fake the intention to cause pressure. i doubt i would ever vote someone with the intent of getting a mislynch as scum at this stage of the game.- Quick
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A lot?In post 1365, Gorkington wrote:how often do you see someone get lynched 4+ days before deadline?- Quick
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choochoo is hardly a reason to vote someone. You can't be serious here.In post 1372, Gorkington wrote:i said "choo choo". its basically an implication of "this is wagoning for the sake of the wagon". the follow-up question i had for tchill was asking for a timeline on his reads.
p-edit: on d1?
Yeah, happens a lot regardless of what day it is. Town is stupid.- Quick
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Could you please answer the question I directed at you? I'll repeat: do you plan on continuing the charade that you don't know your role or are you going to admit you knew your role all along? And I not even necessarily SRing you for that, so just be honest, kay?In post 1374, GreyICE wrote:Hell yeah. I've had a game where I voted three people on day 1 and my vote never left scum.
If you think it's impossible to have good reads on day 1 you might just be bad.- Quick
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I could argue this further, but it's pointless honestly. I don't think you throw out that self meta and have it be untrue so it's NAI.In post 1381, Gorkington wrote:
choochoo as in "train" as in "all aboard the train".In post 1375, Quick wrote:choochoo is hardly a reason to vote someone. You can't be serious here.
Yeah, happens a lot regardless of what day it is. Town is stupid.
i literally have a track record of saying it and drawing trains with people that are on wagons with me.
why else would i say it?
and i just dont think its a realistic interpretation to think that scum is always trying to immediately get a lynch. i feel like scum's priorities [especially early on when theres a long game ahead of them] are often a lot more oriented towards survival and protecting teammates?- Quick
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Seriously, stop, I'm not getting lynched. Pick a viable wagon.
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VOTE: Grey
Can we get a Grey wagon going?
- He refuses to engage with me
- Creature said he can't be TSTBS
- His behavior is Scummy af
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Only problem here is there is no way to assume vig actually shoots them.In post 1403, Hopkirk wrote:Grey is the kind of person I wouldn't lynch d1 (since the lynch gives us nothing) since vigilantes are common and he's the perfect n1 target.- Quick
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The way you are pressuring him it feel like you are actually trying to get a rise out of him. It's in your firm points and not really working with him in the slightest. I know he is a Scum read, but I think anyone who get a case on them that is tunnelesque is probably going to react the way Screen has reacted. Not saying you are actually tunneling because you are not. Just saying you keep hammering on the same point and that can frustrate anyone.In post 1439, Thor665 wrote:
Why is that?In post 1362, Quick wrote: given the nature of Thor's push, I would say it's pretty NAI.
The post I said was Scummy for his naked vote and saying "choochooo" which was the only thing he said about chill in that post. Why were the series of posts honest and Town minded?In post 1439, Thor665 wrote:
Which post?In post 1359, Quick wrote:@Thor, Why was Gork Town for that post?
I'm putting him in town for an ongoing series of posts that feel both honest and town minded.- Quick
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How do you explain Ausuka's TR on Nero being in their top 5 and Hop calling Nero Town and Nero telling Hop his read on him is baseless unless they in a hood?In post 1451, Brigand Vvulf wrote:
I was really hoping we wouldn't resort to cases this game, butIn post 1438, GreyICE wrote: Look, you're town, so I'm going to let you in on the sad thing about these large games. It takes 11 to lynch. There's probably 5 scum, leaving 16 townies. That means if six townies decide to play The Lone Ranger and go off on their own, we would be unable to lynch anyone the scum didn't want us to lynch. In point of fact,even if the person you are voting is scumthis is true - with 5 scum, there's enough we could split our vote between scumbags and still not get anywhere.
In short, Lone Ranger votes like these rarely accomplish something, even if they happen to land on scum. So try to sell us, or try to work with us. Nero's posts legit aren't great, but something like this isn't really going to sell us. It's a weak vote, that puts no pressure on Nero (because he needs 10 more to get lynched) and doesn't really even have bullet points for him to address (and potentially make himself look scummy). It's effectively a non-post due to game size.
If this was a micro things like this can work, because there's so few people that just putting a vote out there is important, but in a game like this you aren't even 10% of a lynch wagon. So please, lets work together.
ask and thou shall receive my friend
I just ISO'ed nero again. The issue I see with nero are that A) he's appearing to look active without really contributing anything of value to advance gamestate; B) he likes to dip in discussions that don't produce meaninful results that could then leads to reads; C) instead opting to take a lot of neutral stances then backing away from the discussion. D) There's also the over the top self-awareness, the unnecessary abrasiveness in dismissing scum reads on him, and in general being consioucs and reactive when confronted with the slightest of pressure. (but this could be a playstyle/gimmick so less emphasis on this part)
A.
1. 1105 pre-emptive discrediting while responding accusations
2. responding to ausuka's TR on creature, but offering no original opinion
3. 1258 dismisses the tchill wagon but approaches it from a wierd side angle while responding to grey, offers an unimpressive lurker isn't always scum defense, no opinions on people on the wagon
B.
1. with regard to ausuka's town read on creature
2. with regard to tchill being scum, leaving him a spot to join the wagon later if needed
C.
there are lots of exampes but the one that stood out was in 1090 when he offered an opinion but didn't pursue it any further
D.
1. I was offput by his consious effort to shake off the early SRs on him
2. A major proponent is the back and forth with toranaga with the absurd amount of OMGUS and jumping to the conclusion that tora must be scum, examples of this would be in 1134 where he discredits for seemingly non reason, and in 1248 where he mentions that scum could be sheeping tora with wagons but takes no initiative to spot any names
3. self-awareness re: beeboy 1090
4. responses to cheeky, etc- Quick
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OK, NVM my previous post.In post 1456, Ausuka wrote:
Not sure if anyone's already said this, but... no.In post 1344, Quick wrote:OK, so yesterday I was thinking Ausuka, cheeky, Hop, Nero, and beeboy were all in a hood.- Quick
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I think you are probably Town.In post 1518, Nero Cain wrote:Do you like the case on me Quick?- Quick
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Brig prolly Town. Bins Prolly Scum.In post 1521, Nero Cain wrote:
thoughts on Brig and Bin pls.In post 1519, Quick wrote:
I think you are probably Town.In post 1518, Nero Cain wrote:Do you like the case on me Quick?
Everything Bins does is horrible and I don't think that kind of atrocity comes from Town. I've played with Scum!Bins once and it's enough to know the more contrary to the rest of the game Bins is the more likely they are Scum.
Brig Town for his case on you even though it's probably wrong.- Quick
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I have no idea what you mean because you didn't explain what I was doing "wrong"In post 1500, Spiffeh wrote:
You need to stopIn post 892, Quick wrote:This is all their posts by page 5....
That is a lot of posts for not being able to keep up.
That is 13 posts in ~3 hours... They make up ~11% of the posts at that point in time...
So they COULD keep up earlier, but now all the sudden they can't
Thread has been open for 26 hours with 885 posts. That averages one post every ~1.7 min. For the first 5 pages the thread was averaging one post every ~1.6 per minute. Pretty much the same as it is now.
Ausuka has made on average a post every 48.75 min... And they are saying they can't keep up.- Quick
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You're not reading what I say and you post THIS?In post 1551, GreyICE wrote:Nero Cain and Tchill are two fine people to be voting.- Quick
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What do you think of Creatures point that Grey doesn't do TSTBS? It sounded like Creature was saying if Grey was Scummy he was Scum.In post 1554, Nero Cain wrote:I mean maybe he was bussing Tchill and it threw me off but as soon as something else pops up he's all for it while trying to goad me into voting Tchill. No way this is town.- Quick
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yeah but you agreed with me before when I said Grey was TSTBS. WTF?In post 1556, Nero Cain wrote:
I agree with it, lolIn post 1555, Quick wrote:It sounded like Creature was saying if Grey was Scummy he was Scum.- Quick
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Ya, ya did. How did you manage to fuck that up? I makes your read on Grey pretty ingenuine.In post 1558, Nero Cain wrote:I did? oh well, I changed my mind then.- Quick
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In post 1126, Quick wrote:
I feel like Grey is TSTBS. He's doing some really REALLY funky stuff and that usually comes from Town.In post 1123, Hopkirk wrote:I feel at least a bit good about: Toranaga, MariaR, Beeboy, Ausuka, Cheeky, Quick, Brian, Nero, Brigand (a bit), Screen (a bit)
Zone of people I need to interact with: The Worst, Tchill, Panoptican UNVOTE: panoptican, Bins, Spiffeh
Hive of potential scum and villany: Thor665, Gorkington, GreyIce, CentipedeSorry Nero, I have to at least vote you for this.
VOTE: Nero- Quick
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That is a really really lazy OMGUS read Nero.In post 1567, Nero Cain wrote:I mean fuck, we had scum dead to rights in Quick and I let him go.- Quick
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@Nero,
I changed my read on Grey after I saw what Creature said about Grey. I have no meta on Grey at all. Do you?- Quick
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That's not my case on you.In post 1570, Nero Cain wrote:I'm having a hard time seeing a Quick town go "Nero is scummy for agreeing with me on page 46 and then developing a scum read 10 pages later"
If he thinks I'm scum he doesn't apologize for voting me. lol
My case on you is that you are agree with two different PoV that are opposite to each for a read on player and now only SRing people because they find you Sus. And agreeing with people's PoV on someone isn't the same thing as changing your read on someone due to reevaluating them.- Quick
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Will have to go back and look at that.In post 1577, Nero Cain wrote:you do know that I was scum reading GI b4 he ever voted me right?- Quick
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In post 1497, Nero Cain wrote:I'm also hard scumreading GreyIce (1284)
Nero, man, this doesn't look like a hard SR at all. This looks like a "grey could be Scum but not really sure on it" Why because of this:In post 1284, Nero Cain wrote:or maybe I'm right and the Sith that deals in absolutes (Grey) is sheeping a horrible wagon.
or maybe- Quick
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How strong is your Gork read Creature?In post 1584, Creature wrote:Oh right, just voted Nero because idk why Tchill was a wagon- Quick
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Yeah, That's my Town meta of Nero as well, but I've never seen him as Scum. I might poke around that game you linked.In post 1587, Gorkington wrote:like, town nero doesnt give a shit, is a stubborn butt and gets ridiculously overconfident about reads for reasoning that looks ridiculous in a way that he just doesnt as scum.
its literally night and day.- Quick
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Agree. Looked at his ISO from the previous game. If Nero is making good posts and has a IDGAF attitude, he's likely Town.In post 1591, Gorkington wrote:youll probably townbin him if you do.
real folk blues reboot is also a good bit of homework for nero's scumgame:
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Can someone answer why Thor spent so much time pushing Screen even though he is still on his RVS vote?- Quick
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har har.In post 1600, Nero Cain wrote:
look at this guy talking out of both sides of his mouth.In post 1597, Quick wrote:
Agree. Looked at his ISO from the previous game. If Nero is making good posts and has a IDGAF attitude, he's likely Town.In post 1591, Gorkington wrote:youll probably townbin him if you do.
real folk blues reboot is also a good bit of homework for nero's scumgame:
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LOL. What are you doing?
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Hey, Spiffeh, I still want an answer on what I was doing wrong with my time case on Ausuka.In post 1605, Spiffeh wrote:
Have you not played mafia before?In post 1378, GreyICE wrote:just grab each other's cocks and stroke until the deadline rolls around?- Quick
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I don't get you quoting that case I made and bing like "stop" could you PLEASE explain that?In post 1608, Spiffeh wrote:@Gork I'm almost done my catchup and spoiler alert: I'll be voting for him!
Quick, you're not doing anything wrong. Ausuka is doing something wrong.- Quick
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*clears throat*In post 1611, Gorkington wrote:dont worry mulch i can do the flips for you
Man, and you were the person who made the point about D1's not ending early? This assumes your comment here is serious sarcastic and I think it is.- Quick
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OK, yeah, that makes sense with how people don't like my post count.In post 1612, Spiffeh wrote:Oh because that was stupid
People's schedules change, just because Ausuka was able to keep up early on doesn't mean she's lying about being able to keep up 50 pages later- Quick
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Fair. It's was more of an ad hoc as a joke anyways.In post 1616, Gorkington wrote:if tchill is actively lurking out this cycle then i might be okay with wrapping things up earlier?
i wouldnt want a lynch before he gets into prod territory but if he starts feigning posting again with a prod dodge when hes under pressure instead of providing content or replacing out then im not gonna dig my heels just for the sake of running the clock in case something happens.
my mindset has been "use all of the time in a cycle" for forever, but the more i play, the more i kind of feel like its asking for a more dramatic and unpleasant game. i feel like especially with dragging things out with large themes, people get antsy, anxious and annoyed and eventually the fighting gets shittier and shittier until people say garbage that they regret.
i also think forcing people to give a big YES or NO to a wagon is super useful information to go back on, so forcing this kind of decision earlier rather than later when theres a deadline people can use as an excuse is a pretty solid way of focusing the content of the game in a useful/meaningful way.
p-edit: ya i was sad about that too.
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The only reason I can see for Cent playing this way is "I can solvez dis game by D2"In post 1618, Gorkington wrote:and i mean frankly, if centipede has a "guilty" and theyre being this inactive i really dont see the point in holding it back.
so, i would probably advocate for that being outted sooner if theyre just sitting on it doing nothing.- Quick
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I lol'd
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IDK but if he is Scum, he's probably getting bussed.In post 1623, Nero Cain wrote:Who r tchill buddies then?- Quick
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I don't believe you have a guiltyIn post 1624, Centipede Syndrome wrote:
i have exams, sorry.In post 1618, Gorkington wrote:and i mean frankly, if centipede has a "guilty" and theyre being this inactive i really dont see the point in holding it back.
so, i would probably advocate for that being outted sooner if theyre just sitting on it doing nothing.
it's Maria. she's scum. go nuts.- Quick
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This is badIn post 1267, Panopticon wrote:
I mean, I wanna lynch it just for this kinda thing lolIn post 1218, Tchill13 wrote:I can assure you I'll never be scum caught off of 3 posts lol
anyone who ends a post with lol is scum in my book lol
VOTE: Tchill13 lol
-ObserVed
This is bad.In post 982, Ausuka wrote:
your tone is very towny, and you're playing like you did in floral.In post 977, Hopkirk wrote:Ausuka HI. Why am I town.
pedit: ok I like that!
VOTE: tchill13- Quick
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And this VC is pitiful. We need a damn counter wagon.In post 1635, northsidegal wrote:- Quick
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In post 1663, Spiffeh wrote:Ok I read over the last 10 pages more carefully and have come to the conclusion that Nero Cain is obviously town, especially comparing it to the scum games Gorkington linked.
What do you both think of this post:In post 1664, Centipede Syndrome wrote:i don't have access to the program. i don't even think Elli used it here. i can ask him but i don't think he did.
as for things not being 100% possible... i mean. obviously. Elli's accuracy is high enough that if he says someone is 100% scum as opposed to "maybe scum" i know he's sure.
pedit: oh right, Nero's also town. thanks for reminding me.
In post 324, Hopkirk wrote:
Nero can be town.In post 308, Nero Cain wrote:I didn't really like your jokey 27. Seems uncharacteristic for you.
this seems like a useless filler question and I don't see town asking this.In post 180, Hopkirk wrote:Can you list those trolls? Serious question.
this felt like the kind of "throw gas on a fire" post that scum makes to fuel a wagon.In post 247, Hopkirk wrote:Quick Quick, give me three people you townread.
Also still interested in how you read the game like you said you did.
I was assuming I was in his 'trolling/joking' group and wondered why he didn't mention anything. Based on the one game I played with him, that's the impression I thought he had od me, even if it's not accurate. Not liking the joke explains well.
Should be easy to find town me opening with bad jokes.
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How early the TR on nero came in before his meta way brought up at all.In post 1670, Centipede Syndrome wrote:i have very few feelings re: that post. what's interesting to you?- Quick
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If this is in response to me...In post 1672, Nero Cain wrote:You KNEW my meta and you STILL scum read me. How is this any diffrent than what you were supposedly scum reading me for?
I've never seen you as Scum.
Yeah.. that it was so early. That's part of what contributed to me thinking about the hood idea with the people in it that I mentioned earlier with Nero and Hop being in Ausuka's top 5 TRs.In post 1673, Centipede Syndrome wrote:Quick: assuming Nero is town, from a scum Hopkirk pov i'd call it an attempt at buddying/getting Nero to ease up on the scumread. but it could also be a genuine opinion from town Hopkirk.
i mean, players are allowed to townread Nero for things besides meta. is it that the read is too early in general?
pedit: hahaha. i don't know why that post is so funny. i should really fill in the gaps of what i've read re: when Quick's read on Nero changed.- Quick
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I tend to really overestimate a players Scum game who I think have a good Town game if I haven't seen their Scum game before *shrug*In post 1678, Nero Cain wrote:
I don't think this matters.In post 1675, Quick wrote:I've never seen you as Scum.- Quick
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In post 1682, Tchill13 wrote:yeah im just hopping in right here. I was scared to post because of how behind i am. I don't care anymore. I'm starting from here. sorry.Where is this vote coming from then?
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My sig isn't sarcastic at all. I suck at solving because I am alway seeing things 10 different ways.In post 1685, Centipede Syndrome wrote:(by the way, i agree with your signature, though i suspect the original context was sarcastic.)- Quick
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This looks like Town Chill kinda but this is not a hard read. He has a reasonably good Scum game (that I have seen twice). As Scum he tends to push things that are easy to push, not seeing that here. Also, as Scum he makes very convenient stances based on how people are reading him.. If someone is TRing him, he will probably TR them for example and his read change depending on other people's reads when he is Scum.In post 1770, Gorkington wrote:i would be super happy if someone could pull some meta for tchill when hes getting pushed as town and scum.
i know team mafia whiteflag is an easy example of town him getting put into the gallows pretty early on,
so would be pretty interested in seeing anyone else's assessment of whether his performance here looks like an extension of and/or similiar to his play here.
All that said (and I was in the game he was in in Team Mafia) I don't think his push on Ausuka is very AI but if it is, it's Townie. Plus just before this he misunderstood what Ausuka was saying about him which I cannot see him doing as Scum as often. So I am more inclined to think Chill is Town here.- Quick
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I feel very weird about the Chill wagon...
It grew with like zero reasoning and Chill seems sorta in his Town meta... But then he disappeared and it's making me feel weird.- Quick
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The chill wagon feels gross tbqh.
why are you not looking at the horrible reasons for the chill wagon @Thor?- Quick
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It would be suicidal? This sounds like someone who doesn't have much experience with this game or is Scum.In post 1975, CheekyTeeky wrote:
The choices are between MariaR and Centipede.In post 1965, Brian Skies wrote:What are the choices? I'm like 6 pages behind.
Look, Centipede (Elli) called a guilty on MariaR. Imo this guilty is 100% legitimate because I've seen the results first hand in Team Mafia. I see no reason for scum!CS to do this as it would be suicidal if fake and the wagon on MariaR went through. Today we should be lynching in those two.- Quick
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Scum lynch Townies they are "Sure" are Scum all the time... Why do you not see this?In post 1984, CheekyTeeky wrote:
I would get into a debate but we cannot afford to be further distracted by you. If you disagree feel free to vote CS.In post 1978, Quick wrote:
It would be suicidal? This sounds like someone who doesn't have much experience with this game or is Scum.In post 1975, CheekyTeeky wrote:
The choices are between MariaR and Centipede.In post 1965, Brian Skies wrote:What are the choices? I'm like 6 pages behind.
Look, Centipede (Elli) called a guilty on MariaR. Imo this guilty is 100% legitimate because I've seen the results first hand in Team Mafia. I see no reason for scum!CS to do this as it would be suicidal if fake and the wagon on MariaR went through. Today we should be lynching in those two.
Pedit I will not scumread anything except resistance to either of these two wagons.- Quick
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I don't believe for a second your algorithm puts creature that high as Town. smh.In post 1990, Centipede Syndrome wrote:TOWN
19. Centipede Syndrome (Ellibereth+Chara)
18. Creature
9. Quick
10. Gorkington
3. Beeboy
1. randomidget
8. Hopkirk
5. Bins
21. Nero Cain
7. CheekyTeeky
SCUM
2. MariaR
PEOPLE LEFT
4. Thor665
6. Ausuka
11. GreyICE
12. Panopticon (Varsoon and Tn5421)
13. The Worst
14. Srceenplay
15. Spiffeh
16. Brigand Vvulf
17. Tchill13
20. Brian Skies
we're getting there- Quick
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Yup but I don't think an algorithm factors in meta. So no reason why Creature is that high.In post 1993, Centipede Syndrome wrote:quick
a 2 year old who can't use a keyboard can read creature - Quick
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