Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)
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Hmm...
To trust the miller claim or not? I feel like Dave is one of the few people I could hear that from and be highly inclined to believe him. I've seen him deliberatley withhold his SK kill to look like a 1-shot vig in a game, so claiming Miller as scum doesn't seem like his brand of gambit.
VOTE: Ouroboros
I can always come back to Dave if necessary.- Alchemist21
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There we go! It's not often I break out this avi.
I know they're standard for when you are actually a Miller. I also know scum can gambit the Miller claim. I'm basing my belief of which this was based on what I know of Dave, which is that he likes to stay under the radar and avoid detection, and a Miller claim does the opposite of staying under the radar.
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He's not going to post as much as most regardless because he's busy a lot irl, but I'm saying that he would claim Miller as scum because it puts all eyes on him and as scum he's the type of person who would hold back on his own killing power to keep himself hidden. I don't think his scum gambits would be of the attention grabbing sort.In post 15, Ouroboros wrote:
Consider it done.In post 13, davesaz wrote:@hydrae: Signing your posts would be much appreciated.
Ghost
@Alchemist- I, personally, have never played with Dave before, so I have to ask, is his preference for staying under the radar something he does regardless of alignment?
@Dave- Can you attest to this behavioral preference as something you do, regardless of alignment?- Alchemist21
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If there absolutely has to be a policy lynch on Dave I think it would be better to be on D2. If a vig exists they can shoot Dave tonight and save us the lynch.
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Nah the trick is to withhold your vote until that person makes even a mildly substantial post, then throw it down and say Serious Vote. It's a known trick but still works. The catch is that you're more likely to get reactions from other people who want to know why rather than the actual target.In post 38, MariaR wrote:I was just looking to see if you'd act sketchy/squeamish about it...although perhaps I should've said srs vote after a few more posts cause maybe it was obv I was trying to get a reaction. Reeeee
Pedit: I trust everyone until you give me a reason not too- Alchemist21
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In post 52, wilky wrote:I'm also going to hardclaim miller here and the miller has a flavour name too so i'd like to put the question to dave on what's the flavour name of your miller role.
Until then
VOTE: Davesaz- Alchemist21
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Assuming you're both telling the truth (and according to the mod meta stated by what I'm guessing was RC then it's probable) it would help verify your claim I suppose. The other miller claiming their flavor is necessary as far as either confirming or denying your flavor claim.In post 59, davesaz wrote:Oh, is that a thing with GiF games?
I am willing to reveal flavor as requested, but would like to hear opinions on whether it's actually helpful and on whether the other miller claim should be required to do the same (presumably yes on first question implies absolutely yes on 2nd but that's just my opinion).
The most harmful thing I could see coming of this is that one is actually Town Miller and the other is scum Fakeclaiming and the scum doesn't know the flavor before it's claimed by the actual Miller. Just thinking about the implications for what everyone would have to do to work around it is making my head spin. Basically, if the first to claim gets verified by the second, we can almost assuredly know that the first claim was true, but we have to assume that the second is telling the truth and not just piggybacking off the flavor knowledge. So it would be better that the one we think is more likely to be Town going second, so we can confirm or deny the first. But of course if both millers are telling the truth and think this same way, both would be hesitant to go first because they want to be able to confirm the other and could create a potential stalemate.
That's probably overthinking it but basically I still personally have more reason to believe your claim over Wilky's and would rather Wikly be required to claim flavor and you confirm/deny it.
This is also assuming the Millers can even be verified in such a way and if they can, why did the Mod bother making them Millers if they're so easily confirmed?- Alchemist21
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It's possible Wilky fakeclaimed Miller to try and appear as a second Miller. It would make sense given the mod meta that 2 millers in a game has been done by this mod before, but on the other hand Wilky did say this was their first large Theme game so I doubt they would have been aware enough of Gif's mod meta to have taken advantage of it unless a scumbuddy told them. But yeah, you're probably right and to think Wilky's scum requires a lot of assumptions, more than are probably reasonable.In post 102, Nero Cain wrote:I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole- Alchemist21
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Same question to you as RC. What did you see that was actually scummy from Wilky?In post 99, MariaR wrote:I don't think anyone (nor should) is saying that we must lynch in the millers it was mostly "out guess the mod" and wifom based on flavor. I think reading on the play itself is what's more important. I'm willing to join the Wilky wagon but It's not for the miller claiim more so his rxn to the whole thing also I assume in a game like fall out there would be fake claims? so I don't really like RC's vote reason for Wilky.
VOTE: Wilky
Pedit: You fact you unvoted with vote tags and voted with bold triggers me- Alchemist21
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In post 105, Wraith wrote:Oh wait we havetwoMiller claims out the gate?
We're going to need some immediate flavor claims.
Which if the two would you rather flavor claim first?In post 106, Nero Cain wrote:^- Alchemist21
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I see. Probably should have tried to soft a heavier PR to draw the scum NK with that role, but what's done is done.In post 121, Tchill13 wrote:
correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.In post 117, Alchemist21 wrote:@RCWhat did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?
Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.
@TchillSo you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?- Alchemist21
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I can kinda see it with the bolded part there if you see it as having a degree of hesitation to commit to a hard scumread from the counterclaim if he knew he was pushing Town. The more I think about it the more I'm certain that Wilky's play indicates he is indeed a Miller. I suppose the most indicative thing about Wilky here is what motivated him to push Dave for a flavor claim. As a Town Miller, he has every reason to counterclaim Dave and push the flavor claim and try to catch Dave in a lie while assuming there's only 1 Miller while allowing for the possibility of a 2nd Miller. As a scum Miller, he could either just have never claimed Miller or counterclaimed Dave and pushed for the verification to confirm himself as Miller. Regarding the scum possibility, on one hand it does seem to not make sense that he gave Dave the chance to prove he was a 2nd Miller if he didn't even think it was possible before the mod meta was brought up, but on the other hand actually claiming Miller instead of just keeping quiet even if he actually is a scum Miller is opening himself up to the possibility of getting policy lynched or vigged - 2 possibilities that I have to believe his scumbuddies would have warned him about as a scum Miller.In post 125, MariaR wrote:In post 70, wilky wrote:I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.
I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.
These pinged me as scummy stuff with tmi trying to withhold info. And even without the miller claims I don't really like his tone about the whole miller situation in the first place. Why are you voting Ank? For pressure or because you sr them? I don't think just voting will hurry them up with whatever they're doing.In post 87, wilky wrote:So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?
So to me it seems Wilky had reason to not claim Miller if he's scum and every reason to claim if he's Town. While scum can and do fakeclaim Miller (and would by extension see it reasonable for a scum Miller to claim Miller), the odds just point to it being more likely that Town claims over scum. I suppose getting his claim verified could potentially keep the PL/vig away from him if that's something he considered before the claim. Even then it seems like there would need to be a great deal of forethought and calculated risks if he's scum claiming this.
The possiblities keep wavering back and forth in my mind but they keep favoring the Town Wilky scenario more than the scum Wilky one.
The Ank vote's about a 80/20 split between pressure and a scumread.
Was the Wilky vote part of what you're testing?In post 127, Ankamius wrote:
Yes, I don't think the miller claim conversation is going to get anywhere.In post 124, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: Ankamius
I know the "do little until later" is kind of your thing, but I would think by now you'd have at least commented on something worthwhile. So got any thoughts to share?
But really, I'm waiting on something specific before I start analyzing things. I want to test something.- Alchemist21
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Ok so I guess you and Maria are seeing the same thing. But regarding the bolded part, what makes you think GiF would screw with the meta at all? If 2 Town Millers has been the case in multiple previous games, what makes this game more likely to be the exception than the rule?In post 132, Ouroboros wrote:Also let's be totally clear on what my viewpoint is
My viewpoint is that Wilky IS IN FACT A MILLER BY ROLE. HIS ROLE PM SAYS MILLER.
But he is scum nonetheless.
That is why he claimed miller, having the role, and that is why he immediately gave Davesaz an out to make the situation not a counterclaim.
I get zero vibes from his response that he actually thinks Davesaz is lock scum and the vote felt more of an obligation and that Wilky just wanted to get the situation dealt with.
This is also a completely GIF thing to do,he has put two town millers in multiple previous games and I think it's about time that he screws with that meta by making one scum.- Alchemist21
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RC's slowly persuading me to the scum Wilky side of things. But as it is I am overthinking a bit and it's past midnight for me and I know I'm not even fully thinking straight right now so I'll revisit this issue again tomorrow with a clearer mind and maybe more insight from other posts.
I also need to do more to try and get stuff from others like I'm doing with Ank because I don't want to end this Day with reads on only 2 or 3 slots so that's on my to do list too.- Alchemist21
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Before I forget, I think this post is a bit problematic. Disagreeing with someone's reasons but disregarding those differences because it's the "correct" target seems like a redflag for someone with a more tunnely mindset. You need to understand and analyze the reasons with people you're voting alongside.In post 126, MariaR wrote:
Me saying I don't like your reasoning wasn't me sring you I just think you're voting them for the wrong seasons but your end goal is correct.In post 109, Ouroboros wrote:WRT Maria, not a fan of her voting with me while simultaneously saying something about how she doesn't like my reasons for voting him
Maybe I'm assuming too much about your style and tendencies but potential Town-tunneling is something I want to address sooner rather than later.- Alchemist21
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Then why did you vote Wilky?In post 148, Ankamius wrote:
Nope, it's unrelated to my votes.In post 133, Alchemist21 wrote:
Was the Wilky vote part of what you're testing?In post 127, Ankamius wrote:
Yes, I don't think the miller claim conversation is going to get anywhere.In post 124, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: Ankamius
I know the "do little until later" is kind of your thing, but I would think by now you'd have at least commented on something worthwhile. So got any thoughts to share?
But really, I'm waiting on something specific before I start analyzing things. I want to test something.
I was actually going to let it go if her vote was part of her test, but knowing that it's not I want to know why she joined that wagon.In post 149, hebichan wrote:
You can confirm scum if you hide correctly.In post 121, Tchill13 wrote:
correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.In post 117, Alchemist21 wrote:@RCWhat did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?
Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.
@TchillSo you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?
Anyhow, moving on.
VOTE: alchemist
I don't like you fishing for tests.- Alchemist21
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In post 183, Ouroboros wrote:? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?
Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?
You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.
Still catching up on the last page and a half, but this looks incredibly like scum trying to get Ouroboros to back off them.In post 186, Ramcius wrote:
VOTE: WilkyIn post 183, Ouroboros wrote:? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?
Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?
You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.
fine, have your way
VOTE: Ramcius- Alchemist21
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In post 197, Ramcius wrote:
Maybe, or maybe i just got ML'ed D1 way too many times for going against strong vocal playersIn post 192, wilky wrote:
This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.
VOTE: Ramcius
P-edit: RC, i don't have gladiator role this time, so i can't change your opinion on meMan Ramcius just doesn't know how he wants to handle the pressure in himself huh?
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This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?In post 285, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.In post 283, Ouroboros wrote:No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?- Alchemist21
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I really don't remember much from Beneath the Mask aside from the Mulch-based drama, though your avi was familiar to me.
Also I was asking Kaede about you partially to try getting a read on her. I keep looking at the early interactiin between Kaede and Maria but can't get any reads based off of it.
How come you didn't say you thought Wilky was scummy before you voted there? The way you were talking made it sound like you trusted both Miller claims as Town with scum Tchill taking advantage of the situation.- Alchemist21
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In post 174, Ramcius wrote:well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this
still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims
It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.In post 182, Ramcius wrote:
Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?In post 175, Ouroboros wrote:final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want
@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?
UNVOTE:- Alchemist21
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I'm doubtful about him being scum at this point. The way he's explained his actions have made them understandable and I don't want to fall for lynchbait.In post 327, Ouroboros wrote:Ok my partner wants to pressure verylazy but don't all derail Ramcius please he's still scum and the more people who stay on him the less I gotta burn my mental energy to kill him.- Alchemist21
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I'm not calling him locktown, I'm just saying I can see how what he did could come from Town and it's nowhere near as scummy as I originally thought especially considering his record for getting himself mislynched D1.In post 333, Ouroboros wrote:Why would you do that
Why don't you trust me to protect you from being lynched
Alchemist it was never about what he did but about the scumminess of the rationale he provided for the Tchill read.
Having a plausible explanation for something doesn't make him locktown- Alchemist21
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You don't need to soft a role that can be mod-confirmed. LolIn post 334, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:What does it even matter, i've been softing it since my first post- Alchemist21
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A lot of votes is still pressure, even if they know so. At best you're still null to me, I just don't see your actions as omgscum anymore.In post 344, Ramcius wrote:
It's not how pressure works - you don't tell people you vote just for pressureIn post 343, Alchemist21 wrote:On second thought I think I will go back on Ram for now. Half the reason I didn't want to unvote him earlier is because I don't have a better place for my vote right now and I still don't so I'll put it back just to keep up some pressure.
VOTE: Ramcius
also, why you townreading both millers and hider claimants?
I don't think Dave is the type of player to try to gambit with a Miller claim as scum. Wilky I keep waffling on and have decided to just let the game progress and try to reas him on non-Miller based stuff. I have my own line of reasoning for the Hider claim but I don't want to go into it right now.- Alchemist21
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I think he looks worse after the 1v1 with Maria but I think they might have more to say to each other that will help solidify my thoughts there.In post 345, ManWithNoName wrote:What are the thoughts on Nero so far, by the way? I'm having a hard time really making what I am thinking (A scumlean) go from abstract thoughts to actual words.- Alchemist21
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In post 370, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
very well. you got me. i'm a jester.In post 369, ManWithNoName wrote:
Your posts do nothing to move the game state forward.In post 367, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
very well. you got me. i'm not playing the game.In post 366, ManWithNoName wrote:Wraith
Ankamius
Dunnstral
Impossibear
Ventriloquist
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
So, by the way, here is my issue with Ventriloquist vote right now. These slots all fall into the same "barely a blip on the RADAR" place.
I would like to see anything resembling actually playing the game from all these slots. Maybe Dunnstral does not belong on here.
sit down. have a beer. chat with me. partner it's time to ride those horses and shoot some scumbags' matey!
I'm almost inclined to say you would be a jester with how blatant you are being.
Nameless Man can be town I guess
10/10 gifIn post 360, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
FIGHT ME!!!1111!1!!!1In post 141, Ouroboros wrote:I was really hoping only jungle was nancy.
Do you want to have this fight?
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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Which slot were you referring to here?In post 373, verylazy wrote:if this is new, it's town; if it's an alt, it's scum. unsure which rn.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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In post 418, Ankamius wrote:Kaede Akamatsu
MariaR
Ouroboros
Wraith
Nero Cain
hebichan
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)
Dunnstral
davesaz
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Ventriloquist
verylazy
Wilky
Alchemist21
Tchill12
Ramcius
ManWithNoName
UNVOTE: Ventriloquist
VOTE: ManWithNoName
This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.In post 419, Ankamius wrote:MariaR + Ouroboros I have a hard time seeing as scum this game.
The {Wraith, Nero Cain, hebichan, Impossibear} set are close enough together in read strength that they might as well be right on top of each other.
Dunnstral + davesaz are slots that I either can't really read or have conflicting thoughts on, but I see as more likely town than not.
REALMEN + Ventriloquist are the null line.
verylazy + Wilky are slots I've had stronger scumreads on, but they've improved over time.
Everything below those two slots I can easily see being scum this game.
VOTE: Ankamius- Alchemist21
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Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.In post 503, Impossibear wrote:At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.
After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.
In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.
For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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Their posts indicate the two heads are talking things out with each other before making their posts. I'd say that would be a significant factor in their post rate. They're also giving readable content which is great, and it's more than I can say for some other in this game.In post 506, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:ETL struggling to keep up with a game that grows only like 3 pages a day? making fake wallposts responding to every single bullshit post almost every page attempting to look townie? i know this bitch reads faster than that!
why the fuck you lyin'?
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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For me, I've seen scum trying to directly engage with the person scumreading them and try to discredit the validity of the read or try to reason their way out of it. My memory might be a bit hazy example that came to my mind reading Vent's posts was SerraPaladin's posts in the 2016 Team Trap Mafia where he said the player who was scumreading them was doing it for reasons other than the content of their posts. I know Vent's not making that same exact argument but the nature of their defense feels like it comes from that same kind of mindset.In post 512, Impossibear wrote:Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.
Wrt to my Ank vote, I've seen more content from them as both alignments tbh. It's been a while since I've played with them iirc, but how they're approaching this game doesn't sit right with me and the lack of any explanations makes it harder to actually solidify the read. I'll admit it's a read subject to change but if I have to strongarm some content from them I will.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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That's not even close to an explanation and you know it.In post 646, Ankamius wrote:
here you goIn post 458, Alchemist21 wrote:@AnkI remember you having it in your sig where someone said you're the only person they knew who could do nothing all game then solve it out of nowhere, but I didn't think it was so literal.
At the very least I want an explanation for why you're voting who you're voting.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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See this is the kind of post I've been wanting. It also looks like you only refused my demands for content because you're scumreading me since you're willing to give them to Impossibear in your Town reads. Anyway, more like these please.In post 667, Ankamius wrote:
I'm actually not willing to go into every single read I have here right now, but I'm open to discussing specific ones if you have a preference.In post 503, Impossibear wrote:Happy Scumday Ank!While I appreciate the long-overdue attempt at content, there wasn't actually much "content" there, tbh. I'm gonna need more explanation on those reads, not just how strong they are.
Reference PostIn post 503, Impossibear wrote:
I've actually posted about this in mafia discussion, but basically I prefer to townhunt first as scumreads take much longer for me to develop. The other reason is because being able to work together with your town reads makes for a very strong town that is tough to breakup outside of straight killing the members of the townblock, and can spell doom for the scumteam.In post 420, Ankamius wrote:Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.
Which thoughts in particular are we "polar opposites" on? Let's talk about them.
Early Alchemist Posts: A big source of my scumread on Alchemist came from these posts, actually. I'm not liking the way he came out onto the miller point so fast after the game started; I especially do not like his answer to Ghost regarding davesaz' play since I don't remember him ever being particularly active or a big player in the game he's in; him specifically focusing on him not being scum pings in light of that. I really didn't like #21 either.
Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.
Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.
Ouroboros #71: This is the beginning of the Ouroboros townread for me; this happens alotthroughout the game so far, but there's been a lot of instances where I have a reaction to a specific post and see an RC post detailing that exact same thought 1/3 down the page. In this particular instance, RC misspoke; he was referring to the multitude of people having him claim first after the second miller claim, and the post RC is referring to looks like a huge backpedal, like he's realizing he just fucked up.
What the shit is this...: This is a playstyle quirk I use; it has a very specific purpose that pays off very well when I get the reaction I want from it. It mostly didn't this game, sadly. There's another subpoint in here that achieves the same thing, but I don't want to reveal exactly what it is because then it won't work anymore.
Post 101 VC: Up to this point, of the four people on the wagon that aren't me, one is conftown and the other two are the people I have strong townreads on. As an aside, I wasn't scumreading Wilky at that time.
Post 163: I 100% agreed with RC here. The votes weren't necessarily there, but MWWN's trajectory onto the wagon, Ramcius' one-liner shading the claim, and davesaz suddenly hopping on all within a very short window raised some eyebrows with me too.
Overall, I think the issue you're having with RC is the same one I'm having with you; I think the analysis looks townish because I don't really see any scum motivation from it... but I don't understand the points you're making themselves.
Post 171: I agree with this assessment, all I can really add is that I think all of Ramcius' posts around this spot look really bad.
MariaR 259: I agree here too, but I actually think it's just her falling into the Nero-is-wrong-therefore-scum trap. I can't follow like 80% of what Nero posts in every game we play and I've probably fallen into that same trap before. I've mostly learned to read him through other ways but I'm suspecting MariaR doesn't have a whole lot of experience with him.
Post 266: I think this entire exchange between the two has been pretty pointless. I don't see why Nero's posting there is any more sensical than MariaR's, honestly.
Post 301: One of the instances where I disagreed with RC; I've generally agreed with his scumreads and not his townreads this game.
VOTE: Ventriloquist- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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A storm knocked out the power at my house and I’m phone posting with33%28% (old phone’s charge is dropping loke a rock) remaining right now. I’ll try to read through these past pages but I don’t know if I’ll be able to post after this.
I’m probably going to be V/LA over the weekend as well.Just a heads up here.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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So what I got from Maria was that you think it’s fishy that there are so many neg utility roles and focusing on that and aren’t considering the chance that we do have those neg utility roles and Town has powerful roles to compensate. Also I’m pretty sure she was talking about weak roles as in they are underpowered or neg utility not as in the modifier Weak, which is probably a source of legit misunderstanding.In post 710, Nero Cain wrote:
I mean, there was maybe a little misunderstanding on my part.In post 684, Alchemist21 wrote:
Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.In post 503, Impossibear wrote:At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.
After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.
In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.
For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.
like this is not something I'm thinking or have expressed an opinion on it. I know 2 town roles, maybe 4 since I'm coming around to the idea of using two millers. Its not enough for me to know whether or not the town is weak or strong and I can't tell you about the nature of the scumteam.In post 259, MariaR wrote:without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
How is that NOT putting words into my mouth?
I had felt like her quoting my 222 was a misrep of the usage of the word weak there and her trying to claim that I'm calling hiders weak and thus the town weak.
She's basicly sheeping Dunn here but adding on some strongly worded hot air. If she thinks I'm scummy that I felt it was a very strong possibility that one of Dave or Tchill was scum that got CCed/fakeclaimed then fine but she's trying hard to make it seem like she's not sheeping Dunn. I don't really understand why she thinks I think
and why it makes sense to you. Explain it to me like I'm 3.In post 259, MariaR wrote:without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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I’ve never played a game with 2 Millers before so it really did throw me off when a second one claimed.In post 766, Ankamius wrote:
I know you didn't specifically ask for my opinion on it, but I scumread #55 mainly because of the tone shift compared to the davesaz claim. It read like he was completely thrown off by this second miller claim, which is reinforced by #63 where it feels like he's trying to look at it from square one again. It looks like he was prepared for a miller claim by davesaz, but wasn't expecting two.In post 750, Impossibear wrote:
Jingle is actually in agreement with you on that, and since my first post on the interaction, I have her as pretty null. I like your point about trying to push discussion elsewhere. I do think if both millers are town, scum would benefit greatly from using it to justify votes/lynch options.In post 667, Ankamius wrote: Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.
I think 55 is pretty null... Talk to me about what pinged you on 63. Is it just the speculation re: scum miller or is there something else?Ank wrote:Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.
ETL- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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There’s not much more to go on for Dave beyond what I’ve already said about him probably not gambiting as scum. He needs to post more but it’s usually like that with him until he gets a good chunk of time to focus on the game.In post 812, MariaR wrote:*shrug* I guess I don't get why it takes people for a loop when they see 2 of the same claim. I ran into the same issue before in a game got n1ed for being a voice of reason. Remind me what your stance of the 2 players in question are play wise?
Impossibear matched a lot of my thoughts on Wilky and it’s put me back to thinking scum Wilky doesn’t claim like that. I’ll have to dig deeper at his posts when I have more time but I haven’t seen anything that looks scummy on the surface.
This is my last post tonight. Gotta save some battery for emergencies.- Alchemist21
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Alchemist21 He/HimJack of All Trades
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