Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)


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Post Post #4 (isolation #0) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:37 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Yay!

VOTE: Davesaz

Because I don't trust sculptures.
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Post Post #9 (isolation #1) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:55 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Hmm...

To trust the miller claim or not? I feel like Dave is one of the few people I could hear that from and be highly inclined to believe him. I've seen him deliberatley withhold his SK kill to look like a 1-shot vig in a game, so claiming Miller as scum doesn't seem like his brand of gambit.

VOTE: Ouroboros

I can always come back to Dave if necessary.
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Post Post #11 (isolation #2) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:06 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

You know if you two are gonna have that name and avi then I think I need to change mine.
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Post Post #14 (isolation #3) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:13 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

There we go! It's not often I break out this avi.
In post 12, ManWithNoName wrote:Miller claims in first post are pretty standard.

VOTE: Alchemist
I know they're standard for when you are actually a Miller. I also know scum can gambit the Miller claim. I'm basing my belief of which this was based on what I know of Dave, which is that he likes to stay under the radar and avoid detection, and a Miller claim does the opposite of staying under the radar.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #4) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:28 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 15, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 13, davesaz wrote:@hydrae: Signing your posts would be much appreciated.
Consider it done.

Ghost

@Alchemist
- I, personally, have never played with Dave before, so I have to ask, is his preference for staying under the radar something he does regardless of alignment?

@Dave
- Can you attest to this behavioral preference as something you do, regardless of alignment?
He's not going to post as much as most regardless because he's busy a lot irl, but I'm saying that he would claim Miller as scum because it puts all eyes on him and as scum he's the type of person who would hold back on his own killing power to keep himself hidden. I don't think his scum gambits would be of the attention grabbing sort.
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Post Post #21 (isolation #5) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:33 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 16, Tchill13 wrote:Ooh a Miller claim right out of the gates.

I vote to policy it.
If there absolutely has to be a policy lynch on Dave I think it would be better to be on D2. If a vig exists they can shoot Dave tonight and save us the lynch.
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Post Post #41 (isolation #6) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:59 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 38, MariaR wrote:I was just looking to see if you'd act sketchy/squeamish about it...although perhaps I should've said srs vote after a few more posts cause maybe it was obv I was trying to get a reaction. Reeeee
Pedit: I trust everyone until you give me a reason not too :wink:
Nah the trick is to withhold your vote until that person makes even a mildly substantial post, then throw it down and say Serious Vote. It's a known trick but still works. The catch is that you're more likely to get reactions from other people who want to know why rather than the actual target.
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Post Post #46 (isolation #7) » Sun May 06, 2018 7:15 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In all seriousness though, I think Maria's posts so far are kinda Towny.
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Post Post #55 (isolation #8) » Sun May 06, 2018 7:31 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 52, wilky wrote:I'm also going to hardclaim miller here and the miller has a flavour name too so i'd like to put the question to dave on what's the flavour name of your miller role.

Until then
VOTE: Davesaz
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Post Post #63 (isolation #9) » Sun May 06, 2018 8:15 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 59, davesaz wrote:Oh, is that a thing with GiF games?
I am willing to reveal flavor as requested, but would like to hear opinions on whether it's actually helpful and on whether the other miller claim should be required to do the same (presumably yes on first question implies absolutely yes on 2nd but that's just my opinion).
Assuming you're both telling the truth (and according to the mod meta stated by what I'm guessing was RC then it's probable) it would help verify your claim I suppose. The other miller claiming their flavor is necessary as far as either confirming or denying your flavor claim.

The most harmful thing I could see coming of this is that one is actually Town Miller and the other is scum Fakeclaiming and the scum doesn't know the flavor before it's claimed by the actual Miller. Just thinking about the implications for what everyone would have to do to work around it is making my head spin. Basically, if the first to claim gets verified by the second, we can almost assuredly know that the first claim was true, but we have to assume that the second is telling the truth and not just piggybacking off the flavor knowledge. So it would be better that the one we think is more likely to be Town going second, so we can confirm or deny the first. But of course if both millers are telling the truth and think this same way, both would be hesitant to go first because they want to be able to confirm the other and could create a potential stalemate.

That's probably overthinking it but basically I still personally have more reason to believe your claim over Wilky's and would rather Wikly be required to claim flavor and you confirm/deny it.

This is also assuming the Millers can even be verified in such a way and if they can, why did the Mod bother making them Millers if they're so easily confirmed?
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Post Post #117 (isolation #10) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:17 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

@RC
What did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?

Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.

@Tchill
So you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?
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Post Post #119 (isolation #11) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 102, Nero Cain wrote:I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole
It's possible Wilky fakeclaimed Miller to try and appear as a second Miller. It would make sense given the mod meta that 2 millers in a game has been done by this mod before, but on the other hand Wilky did say this was their first large Theme game so I doubt they would have been aware enough of Gif's mod meta to have taken advantage of it unless a scumbuddy told them. But yeah, you're probably right and to think Wilky's scum requires a lot of assumptions, more than are probably reasonable.
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Post Post #120 (isolation #12) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 99, MariaR wrote:I don't think anyone (nor should) is saying that we must lynch in the millers it was mostly "out guess the mod" and wifom based on flavor. I think reading on the play itself is what's more important. I'm willing to join the Wilky wagon but It's not for the miller claiim more so his rxn to the whole thing also I assume in a game like fall out there would be fake claims? so I don't really like RC's vote reason for Wilky.
VOTE: Wilky
Pedit: You fact you unvoted with vote tags and voted with bold triggers me
Same question to you as RC. What did you see that was actually scummy from Wilky?
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Post Post #122 (isolation #13) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:24 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 105, Wraith wrote:Oh wait we have
two
Miller claims out the gate?

We're going to need some immediate flavor claims.
Which if the two would you rather flavor claim first?
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Post Post #123 (isolation #14) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 121, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 117, Alchemist21 wrote:
@RC
What did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?

Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.

@Tchill
So you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?
correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.
I see. Probably should have tried to soft a heavier PR to draw the scum NK with that role, but what's done is done.
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Post Post #124 (isolation #15) » Sun May 06, 2018 4:32 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: Ankamius

I know the "do little until later" is kind of your thing, but I would think by now you'd have at least commented on something worthwhile. So got any thoughts to share?
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Post Post #133 (isolation #16) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:32 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 125, MariaR wrote:
In post 70, wilky wrote:I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.
In post 87, wilky wrote:So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?
These pinged me as scummy stuff with tmi trying to withhold info. And even without the miller claims I don't really like his tone about the whole miller situation in the first place. Why are you voting Ank? For pressure or because you sr them? I don't think just voting will hurry them up with whatever they're doing.
I can kinda see it with the bolded part there if you see it as having a degree of hesitation to commit to a hard scumread from the counterclaim if he knew he was pushing Town. The more I think about it the more I'm certain that Wilky's play indicates he is indeed a Miller. I suppose the most indicative thing about Wilky here is what motivated him to push Dave for a flavor claim. As a Town Miller, he has every reason to counterclaim Dave and push the flavor claim and try to catch Dave in a lie while assuming there's only 1 Miller while allowing for the possibility of a 2nd Miller. As a scum Miller, he could either just have never claimed Miller or counterclaimed Dave and pushed for the verification to confirm himself as Miller. Regarding the scum possibility, on one hand it does seem to not make sense that he gave Dave the chance to prove he was a 2nd Miller if he didn't even think it was possible before the mod meta was brought up, but on the other hand actually claiming Miller instead of just keeping quiet even if he actually is a scum Miller is opening himself up to the possibility of getting policy lynched or vigged - 2 possibilities that I have to believe his scumbuddies would have warned him about as a scum Miller.

So to me it seems Wilky had reason to not claim Miller if he's scum and every reason to claim if he's Town. While scum can and do fakeclaim Miller (and would by extension see it reasonable for a scum Miller to claim Miller), the odds just point to it being more likely that Town claims over scum. I suppose getting his claim verified could potentially keep the PL/vig away from him if that's something he considered before the claim. Even then it seems like there would need to be a great deal of forethought and calculated risks if he's scum claiming this.

The possiblities keep wavering back and forth in my mind but they keep favoring the Town Wilky scenario more than the scum Wilky one.

The Ank vote's about a 80/20 split between pressure and a scumread.

In post 127, Ankamius wrote:
In post 124, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: Ankamius

I know the "do little until later" is kind of your thing, but I would think by now you'd have at least commented on something worthwhile. So got any thoughts to share?
Yes, I don't think the miller claim conversation is going to get anywhere.

But really, I'm waiting on something specific before I start analyzing things. I want to test something.
Was the Wilky vote part of what you're testing?
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Post Post #135 (isolation #17) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:35 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 132, Ouroboros wrote:Also let's be totally clear on what my viewpoint is
My viewpoint is that Wilky IS IN FACT A MILLER BY ROLE. HIS ROLE PM SAYS MILLER.
But he is scum nonetheless.

That is why he claimed miller, having the role, and that is why he immediately gave Davesaz an out to make the situation not a counterclaim.

I get zero vibes from his response that he actually thinks Davesaz is lock scum and the vote felt more of an obligation and that Wilky just wanted to get the situation dealt with.

This is also a completely GIF thing to do,
he has put two town millers in multiple previous games and I think it's about time that he screws with that meta by making one scum.
Ok so I guess you and Maria are seeing the same thing. But regarding the bolded part, what makes you think GiF would screw with the meta at all? If 2 Town Millers has been the case in multiple previous games, what makes this game more likely to be the exception than the rule?
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Post Post #144 (isolation #18) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

RC's slowly persuading me to the scum Wilky side of things. But as it is I am overthinking a bit and it's past midnight for me and I know I'm not even fully thinking straight right now so I'll revisit this issue again tomorrow with a clearer mind and maybe more insight from other posts.

I also need to do more to try and get stuff from others like I'm doing with Ank because I don't want to end this Day with reads on only 2 or 3 slots so that's on my to do list too.
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Post Post #146 (isolation #19) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:54 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 126, MariaR wrote:
In post 109, Ouroboros wrote:WRT Maria, not a fan of her voting with me while simultaneously saying something about how she doesn't like my reasons for voting him
Me saying I don't like your reasoning wasn't me sring you I just think you're voting them for the wrong seasons but your end goal is correct.
Before I forget, I think this post is a bit problematic. Disagreeing with someone's reasons but disregarding those differences because it's the "correct" target seems like a redflag for someone with a more tunnely mindset. You need to understand and analyze the reasons with people you're voting alongside.

Maybe I'm assuming too much about your style and tendencies but potential Town-tunneling is something I want to address sooner rather than later.
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Post Post #152 (isolation #20) » Mon May 07, 2018 12:16 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 148, Ankamius wrote:
In post 133, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 127, Ankamius wrote:
In post 124, Alchemist21 wrote:VOTE: Ankamius

I know the "do little until later" is kind of your thing, but I would think by now you'd have at least commented on something worthwhile. So got any thoughts to share?
Yes, I don't think the miller claim conversation is going to get anywhere.

But really, I'm waiting on something specific before I start analyzing things. I want to test something.
Was the Wilky vote part of what you're testing?
Nope, it's unrelated to my votes.
Then why did you vote Wilky?
In post 149, hebichan wrote:
In post 121, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 117, Alchemist21 wrote:
@RC
What did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?

Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.

@Tchill
So you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?
correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.
You can confirm scum if you hide correctly.

Anyhow, moving on.

VOTE: alchemist

I don't like you fishing for tests.
I was actually going to let it go if her vote was part of her test, but knowing that it's not I want to know why she joined that wagon.
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Post Post #209 (isolation #21) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 183, Ouroboros wrote:? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?

Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?

You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.
In post 186, Ramcius wrote:
In post 183, Ouroboros wrote:? ? ? ? ? ?? ? ? ?? ? ?

Why would he just not claim it if that was an issue on his radar? Why would he ever be getting protection from investigative roles when he explicitly claimed something that doesn't require investigative roles?

You're just scum pushing a mislynch to distract from Wilky here well over 90% of the time.
VOTE: Wilky

fine, have your way
Still catching up on the last page and a half, but this looks incredibly like scum trying to get Ouroboros to back off them.

VOTE: Ramcius
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Post Post #210 (isolation #22) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:13 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 197, Ramcius wrote:
In post 192, wilky wrote:
This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.

VOTE: Ramcius
Maybe, or maybe i just got ML'ed D1 way too many times for going against strong vocal players

P-edit: RC, i don't have gladiator role this time, so i can't change your opinion on me :(
In post 201, Ramcius wrote:VOTE: Ramcius

agree, that's good wagon
In post 205, Ramcius wrote:UNVOTE:
Man Ramcius just doesn't know how he wants to handle the pressure in himself huh?
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Post Post #220 (isolation #23) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:44 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Is a character claim really necessary or even a good idea?

I don't think it is.
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Post Post #221 (isolation #24) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:46 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Like at this point I think we know enough to at least know they're both Millers. I don't think they need to give up any more info unless they get out to L-1.
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Post Post #255 (isolation #25) » Mon May 07, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

@MariaR
What's your read/opinion on Ramcius right now? You seem to have played with them before but you popped in with the Nero vote and haven't commented on Ram's actions and wagon.
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Post Post #313 (isolation #26) » Tue May 08, 2018 12:27 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 285, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 283, Ouroboros wrote:No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?
I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?
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Post Post #316 (isolation #27) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:40 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I really don't remember much from Beneath the Mask aside from the Mulch-based drama, though your avi was familiar to me.

Also I was asking Kaede about you partially to try getting a read on her. I keep looking at the early interactiin between Kaede and Maria but can't get any reads based off of it.

How come you didn't say you thought Wilky was scummy before you voted there? The way you were talking made it sound like you trusted both Miller claims as Town with scum Tchill taking advantage of the situation.
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Post Post #317 (isolation #28) » Tue May 08, 2018 2:42 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

The funny thing is that iirc the Mulch-based drama was partially because he was scum fakeclaiming Miller and people wanted to PL him. Lol
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Post Post #319 (isolation #29) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:07 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 174, Ramcius wrote:well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims
In post 182, Ramcius wrote:
In post 175, Ouroboros wrote:final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?
Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?
It was these 2 posts that gave me the impression, but I do see where I missed the implied Wilky scumread in that first one.

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #324 (isolation #30) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:34 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Yeah the "I claimed Town" bit has gotten old. She has the 2nd highest post count in the game and she's still dead null to me, and that's a problem.

@Kaede
What are all your current thoughts on the game?
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Post Post #325 (isolation #31) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:35 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

So you're an Innocent Child then? I still would like your opinions in that case.
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Post Post #331 (isolation #32) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:37 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 327, Ouroboros wrote:Ok my partner wants to pressure verylazy but don't all derail Ramcius please he's still scum and the more people who stay on him the less I gotta burn my mental energy to kill him.
I'm doubtful about him being scum at this point. The way he's explained his actions have made them understandable and I don't want to fall for lynchbait.
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Post Post #337 (isolation #33) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:42 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 333, Ouroboros wrote:Why would you do that

Why don't you trust me to protect you from being lynched :cry:

Alchemist it was never about what he did but about the scumminess of the rationale he provided for the Tchill read.

Having a plausible explanation for something doesn't make him locktown
I'm not calling him locktown, I'm just saying I can see how what he did could come from Town and it's nowhere near as scummy as I originally thought especially considering his record for getting himself mislynched D1.
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Post Post #339 (isolation #34) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:43 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 334, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:What does it even matter, i've been softing it since my first post :P
You don't need to soft a role that can be mod-confirmed. Lol
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Post Post #342 (isolation #35) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:52 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

@Rc, I can take your word for it that you read him correctly in a previous game. At this point I could switch back there if needed later in the Day but I'm seriously thinking he's lynchbait right now.

@Man, Ramcius.
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Post Post #343 (isolation #36) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:55 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

On second thought I think I will go back on Ram for now. Half the reason I didn't want to unvote him earlier is because I don't have a better place for my vote right now and I still don't so I'll put it back just to keep up some pressure.

VOTE: Ramcius
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Post Post #346 (isolation #37) » Tue May 08, 2018 4:05 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 344, Ramcius wrote:
In post 343, Alchemist21 wrote:On second thought I think I will go back on Ram for now. Half the reason I didn't want to unvote him earlier is because I don't have a better place for my vote right now and I still don't so I'll put it back just to keep up some pressure.

VOTE: Ramcius
It's not how pressure works - you don't tell people you vote just for pressure

also, why you townreading both millers and hider claimants?
A lot of votes is still pressure, even if they know so. At best you're still null to me, I just don't see your actions as omgscum anymore.

I don't think Dave is the type of player to try to gambit with a Miller claim as scum. Wilky I keep waffling on and have decided to just let the game progress and try to reas him on non-Miller based stuff. I have my own line of reasoning for the Hider claim but I don't want to go into it right now.
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Post Post #348 (isolation #38) » Tue May 08, 2018 4:08 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 345, ManWithNoName wrote:What are the thoughts on Nero so far, by the way? I'm having a hard time really making what I am thinking (A scumlean) go from abstract thoughts to actual words.
I think he looks worse after the 1v1 with Maria but I think they might have more to say to each other that will help solidify my thoughts there.
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Post Post #385 (isolation #39) » Tue May 08, 2018 8:18 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 370, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 369, ManWithNoName wrote:
In post 367, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 366, ManWithNoName wrote:Wraith
Ankamius
Dunnstral
Impossibear
Ventriloquist
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

So, by the way, here is my issue with Ventriloquist vote right now. These slots all fall into the same "barely a blip on the RADAR" place.

I would like to see anything resembling actually playing the game from all these slots. Maybe Dunnstral does not belong on here.
very well. you got me. i'm not playing the game.

sit down. have a beer. chat with me. partner it's time to ride those horses and shoot some scumbags' matey!
Your posts do nothing to move the game state forward.

I'm almost inclined to say you would be a jester with how blatant you are being.
very well. you got me. i'm a jester.

Nameless Man can be town I guess
In post 360, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 141, Ouroboros wrote:I was really hoping only jungle was nancy.

Do you want to have this fight?
FIGHT ME!!!1111!1!!!1

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Post Post #386 (isolation #40) » Tue May 08, 2018 8:20 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 373, verylazy wrote:if this is new, it's town; if it's an alt, it's scum. unsure which rn.
Which slot were you referring to here?
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Post Post #392 (isolation #41) » Tue May 08, 2018 10:05 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Was made in a hydra PT? All the post links in it lead to a thread I'm unauthorized to access.

Why is Real Men on your kill it with fire list?
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Post Post #396 (isolation #42) » Tue May 08, 2018 10:33 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

The train of thought from Impossibear on Wilky and Ram is a lot like my own. Can you talk to me more about the Maria/Nero interaction? Because we're seeing opposite things there.

I'm giving Ank a few hours to deliver on that promise for content and if they don't I'm moving my vote back there.
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Post Post #451 (isolation #43) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 418, Ankamius wrote:Kaede Akamatsu

MariaR
Ouroboros

Wraith
Nero Cain
hebichan
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)

Dunnstral
davesaz

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Ventriloquist

verylazy
Wilky

Alchemist21
Tchill12
Ramcius

ManWithNoName

UNVOTE: Ventriloquist
VOTE: ManWithNoName
In post 419, Ankamius wrote:MariaR + Ouroboros I have a hard time seeing as scum this game.

The {Wraith, Nero Cain, hebichan, Impossibear} set are close enough together in read strength that they might as well be right on top of each other.

Dunnstral + davesaz are slots that I either can't really read or have conflicting thoughts on, but I see as more likely town than not.

REALMEN + Ventriloquist are the null line.

verylazy + Wilky are slots I've had stronger scumreads on, but they've improved over time.

Everything below those two slots I can easily see being scum this game.
This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.

VOTE: Ankamius
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Post Post #453 (isolation #44) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:34 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Ventriloquist's post seem more like they care about keeping suspicion off themself instead of scumhunting and in a way that feels like scum that thinks it can reason itself out of being scumread.
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Post Post #455 (isolation #45) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I can't believe you actually asked that.
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Post Post #458 (isolation #46) » Tue May 08, 2018 3:44 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

@Ank
I remember you having it in your sig where someone said you're the only person they knew who could do nothing all game then solve it out of nowhere, but I didn't think it was so literal.

At the very least I want an explanation for why you're voting who you're voting.
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Post Post #683 (isolation #47) » Wed May 09, 2018 11:05 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Catching up now. What happened to add 8 pages to this game?
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Post Post #684 (isolation #48) » Wed May 09, 2018 11:18 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 503, Impossibear wrote:At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.
Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.

For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.
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Post Post #685 (isolation #49) » Wed May 09, 2018 11:22 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 506, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:ETL struggling to keep up with a game that grows only like 3 pages a day? making fake wallposts responding to every single bullshit post almost every page attempting to look townie? i know this bitch reads faster than that!

why the fuck you lyin'?

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Their posts indicate the two heads are talking things out with each other before making their posts. I'd say that would be a significant factor in their post rate. They're also giving readable content which is great, and it's more than I can say for some other in this game.
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Post Post #688 (isolation #50) » Wed May 09, 2018 11:36 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 512, Impossibear wrote:Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.
For me, I've seen scum trying to directly engage with the person scumreading them and try to discredit the validity of the read or try to reason their way out of it. My memory might be a bit hazy example that came to my mind reading Vent's posts was SerraPaladin's posts in the 2016 Team Trap Mafia where he said the player who was scumreading them was doing it for reasons other than the content of their posts. I know Vent's not making that same exact argument but the nature of their defense feels like it comes from that same kind of mindset.

Wrt to my Ank vote, I've seen more content from them as both alignments tbh. It's been a while since I've played with them iirc, but how they're approaching this game doesn't sit right with me and the lack of any explanations makes it harder to actually solidify the read. I'll admit it's a read subject to change but if I have to strongarm some content from them I will.
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Post Post #693 (isolation #51) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:19 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 646, Ankamius wrote:
In post 458, Alchemist21 wrote:
@Ank
I remember you having it in your sig where someone said you're the only person they knew who could do nothing all game then solve it out of nowhere, but I didn't think it was so literal.

At the very least I want an explanation for why you're voting who you're voting.
here you go
That's not even close to an explanation and you know it.
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Post Post #695 (isolation #52) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:30 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 667, Ankamius wrote:
In post 503, Impossibear wrote:
Happy Scumday Ank!
While I appreciate the long-overdue , there wasn't actually much "content" there, tbh. I'm gonna need more explanation on those reads, not just how strong they are.
I'm actually not willing to go into every single read I have here right now, but I'm open to discussing specific ones if you have a preference.
In post 503, Impossibear wrote:
In post 420, Ankamius wrote:Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.
I've actually posted about this in mafia discussion, but basically I prefer to townhunt first as scumreads take much longer for me to develop. The other reason is because being able to work together with your town reads makes for a very strong town that is tough to breakup outside of straight killing the members of the townblock, and can spell doom for the scumteam.

Which thoughts in particular are we "polar opposites" on? Let's talk about them.
Reference Post

Early Alchemist Posts: A big source of my scumread on Alchemist came from these posts, actually. I'm not liking the way he came out onto the miller point so fast after the game started; I especially do not like his answer to Ghost regarding davesaz' play since I don't remember him ever being particularly active or a big player in the game he's in; him specifically focusing on him not being scum pings in light of that. I really didn't like #21 either.

Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.

Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.

Ouroboros #71: This is the beginning of the Ouroboros townread for me; this happens a
lot
throughout the game so far, but there's been a lot of instances where I have a reaction to a specific post and see an RC post detailing that exact same thought 1/3 down the page. In this particular instance, RC misspoke; he was referring to the multitude of people having him claim first after the second miller claim, and the post RC is referring to looks like a huge backpedal, like he's realizing he just fucked up.

What the shit is this...: This is a playstyle quirk I use; it has a very specific purpose that pays off very well when I get the reaction I want from it. It mostly didn't this game, sadly. There's another subpoint in here that achieves the same thing, but I don't want to reveal exactly what it is because then it won't work anymore.

Post 101 VC: Up to this point, of the four people on the wagon that aren't me, one is conftown and the other two are the people I have strong townreads on. As an aside, I wasn't scumreading Wilky at that time.

Post 163: I 100% agreed with RC here. The votes weren't necessarily there, but MWWN's trajectory onto the wagon, Ramcius' one-liner shading the claim, and davesaz suddenly hopping on all within a very short window raised some eyebrows with me too.

Overall, I think the issue you're having with RC is the same one I'm having with you; I think the analysis looks townish because I don't really see any scum motivation from it... but I don't understand the points you're making themselves.

Post 171: I agree with this assessment, all I can really add is that I think all of Ramcius' posts around this spot look really bad.

MariaR 259: I agree here too, but I actually think it's just her falling into the Nero-is-wrong-therefore-scum trap. I can't follow like 80% of what Nero posts in every game we play and I've probably fallen into that same trap before. I've mostly learned to read him through other ways but I'm suspecting MariaR doesn't have a whole lot of experience with him.

Post 266: I think this entire exchange between the two has been pretty pointless. I don't see why Nero's posting there is any more sensical than MariaR's, honestly.

Post 301: One of the instances where I disagreed with RC; I've generally agreed with his scumreads and not his townreads this game.
See this is the kind of post I've been wanting. It also looks like you only refused my demands for content because you're scumreading me since you're willing to give them to Impossibear in your Town reads. Anyway, more like these please.

VOTE: Ventriloquist
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Post Post #697 (isolation #53) » Wed May 09, 2018 12:42 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Realmen
Can I get a reads list from you? With some of your posts it's hard to tell if your giving a read or not so I want a more organized list so I can see clearly where you stand.
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Post Post #804 (isolation #54) » Thu May 10, 2018 12:45 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

A storm knocked out the power at my house and I’m phone posting with
33%
28% (old phone’s charge is dropping loke a rock) remaining right now. I’ll try to read through these past pages but I don’t know if I’ll be able to post after this.

I’m probably going to be V/LA over the weekend as well.
Just a heads up here.
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Post Post #806 (isolation #55) » Thu May 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 710, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 684, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 503, Impossibear wrote:At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.
Tone-wise I'm Townreading Maria. The sheep onto Nero while ignoring Ram seemed sketchy, but since I was Townreading her before that I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt when she says she was waiting for something. Also the original position is something that could come from either Town or scum so it didn't change my read.

For Nero, it looks like he was the one putting words in Maria's mouth while accusing her of doing the same. It was possible he just misunderstood her posts, but when he attacked her join date it felt like a cheap shot to me and to say it was deflection when Maria called him on it was some bull. It felt like Nero just wanted to attack and push Maria rather than engage her in good faith.
I mean, there was maybe a little misunderstanding on my part.
In post 259, MariaR wrote:without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
like this is not something I'm thinking or have expressed an opinion on it. I know 2 town roles, maybe 4 since I'm coming around to the idea of using two millers. Its not enough for me to know whether or not the town is weak or strong and I can't tell you about the nature of the scumteam.
How is that NOT putting words into my mouth?

I had felt like her quoting my was a misrep of the usage of the word weak there and her trying to claim that I'm calling hiders weak and thus the town weak.

She's basicly sheeping Dunn here but adding on some strongly worded hot air. If she thinks I'm scummy that I felt it was a very strong possibility that one of Dave or Tchill was scum that got CCed/fakeclaimed then fine but she's trying hard to make it seem like she's not sheeping Dunn. I don't really understand why she thinks I think
In post 259, MariaR wrote:without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
and why it makes sense to you. Explain it to me like I'm 3.
So what I got from Maria was that you think it’s fishy that there are so many neg utility roles and focusing on that and aren’t considering the chance that we do have those neg utility roles and Town has powerful roles to compensate. Also I’m pretty sure she was talking about weak roles as in they are underpowered or neg utility not as in the modifier Weak, which is probably a source of legit misunderstanding.
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Post Post #809 (isolation #56) » Thu May 10, 2018 1:12 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 766, Ankamius wrote:
In post 750, Impossibear wrote:
In post 667, Ankamius wrote: Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.
Jingle is actually in agreement with you on that, and since my first post on the interaction, I have her as pretty null. I like your point about trying to push discussion elsewhere. I do think if both millers are town, scum would benefit greatly from using it to justify votes/lynch options.
Ank wrote:Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.
I think 55 is pretty null... Talk to me about what pinged you on . Is it just the speculation re: scum miller or is there something else?

ETL
I know you didn't specifically ask for my opinion on it, but I scumread #55 mainly because of the tone shift compared to the davesaz claim. It read like he was completely thrown off by this second miller claim, which is reinforced by #63 where it feels like he's trying to look at it from square one again. It looks like he was prepared for a miller claim by davesaz, but wasn't expecting two.
I’ve never played a game with 2 Millers before so it really did throw me off when a second one claimed.
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Post Post #811 (isolation #57) » Thu May 10, 2018 1:26 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Because it was as unexpected as the Spanish Inquisition. And RC immediately commented that 2 Millers is a thing in GiF games so instead of just seeing a counterclaim I had to think about all the extra possibilities.
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Post Post #819 (isolation #58) » Thu May 10, 2018 1:43 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 812, MariaR wrote:*shrug* I guess I don't get why it takes people for a loop when they see 2 of the same claim. I ran into the same issue before in a game got n1ed for being a voice of reason. Remind me what your stance of the 2 players in question are play wise?
There’s not much more to go on for Dave beyond what I’ve already said about him probably not gambiting as scum. He needs to post more but it’s usually like that with him until he gets a good chunk of time to focus on the game.

Impossibear matched a lot of my thoughts on Wilky and it’s put me back to thinking scum Wilky doesn’t claim like that. I’ll have to dig deeper at his posts when I have more time but I haven’t seen anything that looks scummy on the surface.

This is my last post tonight. Gotta save some battery for emergencies.
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Post Post #1189 (isolation #59) » Mon May 14, 2018 1:00 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Back from V/LA but too tired to do anything today. I saw in the OP who was lynched and Night Killed. Can someone sum up what's happened since Day Start?
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #60) » Tue May 15, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Ok I'm back now and can probably be on for the next hour. Real life got in my way and now I really need to get back into this game.

First off can someone sum up the Wilky case? I've still not had time to go through this Day's posts so all I know is people want to vote him but I don't know why.
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Post Post #1265 (isolation #61) » Tue May 15, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1068, Ouroboros wrote:Wraith I believe is spewed town: that read may be pretty contentious so I'm going to put it out there now to follow up on later.
Can you tell me what makes Wraith Town?
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Post Post #1267 (isolation #62) » Tue May 15, 2018 4:33 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1250, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:And this is the mod that put 2 scum neighbors, so yeah.
But also one who's apparently done multiple Town Millers in multiple games and never deviated from that.
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Post Post #1270 (isolation #63) » Tue May 15, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

So I'm caught up with this Day now. I don't want to lynch Wilky. Between what Impossibear has given about the flavor and what RC has stated about past GiF games having multiple Town Millers, added to how little sense his claim play would make if he were scum, makes me see it as highly likely Town.

P-edit: Yeah I remember the 2-scum Neighbors thing, though I can't actually remember if he deliberately made both neighbors scum or if he randed 2 neighbors out of the whole playerlist and both just happened to be scum. Let me look back and see the mod PT for that one. I think it was Tohou II, my first Large Theme on site.
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Post Post #1272 (isolation #64) » Tue May 15, 2018 4:58 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Yeah, I finally found it, they did it intentionally.
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Post Post #1273 (isolation #65) » Tue May 15, 2018 5:01 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

That does bump Wilky's Town odds down a bit. I still don't get why he would claim the way he did as scum though.

It also bumps Dave's Town odds down as well. I still don't think he'd lie about being a Miller as scum, but if he's a scum Miller I could see him claiming it.
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Post Post #1274 (isolation #66) » Tue May 15, 2018 5:06 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

That said the odds Dave claims Miller as a scum Miller are probably still less than the odds of him just not claiming.

And there's also what Impossibear is hinting at about Wilky's flavor... I know nothing about the theme myself so I'm having to take their word on these matters.
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Post Post #1426 (isolation #67) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:23 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1295, Impossibear wrote:tchill on the other hand... why the fuck does anyone think that slot is town??
I had reasons I'd still rather not go into, but they were already based on one or two assumptions and as the game goes on I'm feeling less confident on what I thought I saw from Tchill at first.
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Post Post #1427 (isolation #68) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1309, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 908, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 877, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 863, Ouroboros wrote:If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.

Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?

Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.
Hmmm...
738: Thu May 10, 2018 2:23:30 pm
739: Thu May 10, 2018 2:23:46 pm
740: Thu May 10, 2018 2:24:00 pm
741: Thu May 10, 2018 2:24:11 pm (To note he quoted a post 300ish posts older and made a reply in 11 seconds)
742: Thu May 10, 2018 2:25:28 pm

I dunno the first 4 timestamps look a little bit too quick, but they may be a fast typer, i'll keep this in mind for the future.
In post 878, Ouroboros wrote:HOLY FUCK HE DID NOT TYPE THOSE POSTS IN 16 SECONDS AND 11 SECONDS.

KEEP THIS IN MIND FOR WHAT FUTURE

KAEDE YOU'RE HARD PLAYING SCUM WINCON RIGHT NOW
In post 879, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Actually, I guess you have a point, sorry
VOTE: Ventriloquist
VOTE: ventriloquist

tchill did this though. did you think it was a bus?
That vote came after the time stamps which are hard evidence to ignore, so it definitely could be a bus.
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Post Post #1428 (isolation #69) » Wed May 16, 2018 4:57 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1359, Impossibear wrote:
In post 1250, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:And this is the mod that put 2 scum neighbors, so yeah.
GiF has much the same philosophy as I do when it comes to balancing games. Punish towns who think they can outguess the mod about what alignment a specific role is, but still leave enough synergy in the game that it comes out in the post how everything works together. Both scum and town millers are entirely possible here. The miller claim itself is null.

RC, can you dig up links to the games with 2 town millers when you get a chance, btw. I want to check something.
How do the Miller claims line up with Kaede's and RMOJ's roles here based on this mod philosophy? 2 millers which could be cleared on mod Meta (and at least one on flavor) plus an IC plus a role that makes a second IC (and confirms itself with it) seems like a lot in my opinion for an 18-p game.
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Post Post #1462 (isolation #70) » Thu May 17, 2018 10:36 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

FOS: Tchill


Pseudo-voting here until Impossibear's quest is satisfied, then I'll make it official.
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Post Post #1476 (isolation #71) » Thu May 17, 2018 2:06 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I don't think anyone is deliberately trying to make the game toxic, and I think both you and Impossibear are Town. Plus there's no need to case the slot while they can be confirmed. I know you don't see it as 100% confirmed until it happens but I think you can at least give them the chance. If you think you won't be Night Killed this Night Phase then you'll still be around to see that confirmation (or lack of it) and act accordingly. And I know you're set on Wilky right now but since you're not even 100% on them then why not take this time to flesh out your other reads?
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Post Post #1481 (isolation #72) » Thu May 17, 2018 2:39 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Guys please don't do this. A huge fight between you will have no winners, it will only make the state of the game worse.
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Post Post #1484 (isolation #73) » Thu May 17, 2018 2:40 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1483, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 1481, Alchemist21 wrote:Guys please don't do this. A huge fight between you will have no winners, it will only make the state of the game worse.
I have to have this fight because Impossibear is scum and conceding the fight means conceding the game to scum.
Why not give them the chance to fulfill their quest and confirm themselves?
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Post Post #1514 (isolation #74) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:11 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1511, Impossibear wrote:
In post 1509, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:I missed the exact claim, but if it's a JOAT is a 1 shot no?
Why... just why would someone with a 1 shot use it on someone who just hard defended scum, or even better fake it on their buddy who is probably not gonna make it to endgame with their claim if scum, nor is said JOAT.
Claim is that he does something different on subsequent nights but doesn't know what he does yet. Either way, not worth going into today.
Ooh so it's like a Dreaming God? Never thought I'd get to see one in a setup.
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Post Post #1526 (isolation #75) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:19 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1523, Kokichi Oma wrote:I say I'll answer anything truthfully, and no one asks if I'm scum. Shame. Too bad, won't answer anything from now on.

VOTE: Ram

I don't know why Ram is scummy, but I'll do it because 2 people told me to.
It's not because he's scummy, it's because there are conditions needed on a wagon for Impossibear to get confirmed as Town.

That's the short version. Would you like the long version?
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Post Post #1530 (isolation #76) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1525, Kokichi Oma wrote:I can't read Kaito, so I'm not going to try. I think I've only read him right once, so I won't even try it. I'll iso Maki. Kaede is town.
Who are Kaito and Maki?
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Post Post #1537 (isolation #77) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1532, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 1526, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 1523, Kokichi Oma wrote:I say I'll answer anything truthfully, and no one asks if I'm scum. Shame. Too bad, won't answer anything from now on.

VOTE: Ram

I don't know why Ram is scummy, but I'll do it because 2 people told me to.
It's not because he's scummy, it's because there are conditions needed on a wagon for Impossibear to get confirmed as Town.

That's the short version. Would you like the long version?
Yes, Colonel Mustang. As reading 60 pages is hard, and anything in one post makes it easier.
Real Men Only Jungle has given a quest to Impossibear that can confirm Impossibear as Town if it's fulfilled.

The condition of the quest are:
-Be the 3rd vote on a wagon that reaches L-1. This must be reflected in an official vote count.
-Be the hammer on this Day's lynch.

The purpose of the Ram wagon is to satisfy the first condition. Impossibear has asked for specific slots to be on the wagon to preven an lolhammer when ot reaches L-1. They have also asked that all other players use pseudovotes in FOS form until this condition can be met.
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Post Post #1556 (isolation #78) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:39 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1550, Ouroboros wrote:I will quickhammer ramcius if they are brought to L-1. 0 purpose doing that.

If you want this check then wagon Wilky for it.
Why are you opposed to bringing Ram to L-1? I mean aside from thinking Impossibear is a Godfather?
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Post Post #1573 (isolation #79) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:48 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1569, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:yeah projectmatt is town.
scum would be too happy letting all this infighting continue.
I agree with this. I remember seeing a real nasty fight in Space Dandy II and kinda wanting to stop it but letting it continue since I was scum and it was helping us.
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Post Post #1595 (isolation #80) » Thu May 17, 2018 3:58 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1586, Ouroboros wrote:I haven't been paying attention to Ram or the push against him besides that one interaction earlier today - I think?

That's my fault.

Can someone sum up the case for me?

Ghost
There isn't a case because this isn't meant to be a serious wagon. It's strictly for the purpose of allowing Impossibear to be 3rd vote on an L-1 wagon and constructed in a way to reduce the risk of a quickhammer and avoiding a significant loss if for some reason it is quickhammered. It's a wagon that should dissipate as soon as the condition for the quest is met.
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Post Post #1605 (isolation #81) » Thu May 17, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1602, Ouroboros wrote:I miss geriatric.

Ghost
Even despite the shitshow that was that White Flag game?
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Post Post #1619 (isolation #82) » Thu May 17, 2018 4:12 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1608, Ankamius wrote:@alc:
In post 840, Ankamius wrote:
In post 695, Alchemist21 wrote:See this is the kind of post I've been wanting. It also looks like you only refused my demands for content because you're scumreading me since you're willing to give them to Impossibear in your Town reads. Anyway, more like these please.

VOTE: Ventriloquist
I've been very cold towards your demands because of not only my initial read on you, but parts of your engagement on me reads manipulative.

This post in particular is very difficult to quantify in any sense, regardless of context from your other posts or not. It factors into my other question from you, but why did you completely drop this after spending so much of your time and effort trying to brute force info out of me?
In post 838, Ankamius wrote:
In post 688, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 512, Impossibear wrote:Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.
For me, I've seen scum trying to directly engage with the person scumreading them and try to discredit the validity of the read or try to reason their way out of it. My memory might be a bit hazy example that came to my mind reading Vent's posts was SerraPaladin's posts in the 2016 Team Trap Mafia where he said the player who was scumreading them was doing it for reasons other than the content of their posts. I know Vent's not making that same exact argument but the nature of their defense feels like it comes from that same kind of mindset.

Wrt to my Ank vote, I've seen more content from them as both alignments tbh. It's been a while since I've played with them iirc, but how they're approaching this game doesn't sit right with me and the lack of any explanations makes it harder to actually solidify the read. I'll admit it's a read subject to change but if I have to strongarm some content from them I will.
Serious question: Why me specifically?
I dropped it because when you responded to Impossibear and not me, in line with your Town and scumreads on our respective slots, it sent a strong sign to me that you're Town and didn't need more content from you because I had the read.

As to why you specifically, it's because I thought I could pressure the content from you. Others' lack of content might have been due to laziness or inactivity, but yours was the only one that struck me as deliberately holding back, plus a part of me figured you would be a good player to work with if Town.
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Post Post #1691 (isolation #83) » Thu May 17, 2018 4:44 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1689, Ouroboros wrote:Is it just me... Or are the people we're all arguing about convientlly NOT here e.g. Wilky and TChill mainly. But where's everyone else? It feels like 10+ pages since I haven't seen some of the other players.

Ghost
They've both been low-presence the whoke game, especially T-chill.
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Post Post #1727 (isolation #84) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:02 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1721, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 1695, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Anyway ghost.
There is this quest that RMOJ sent to Bear, the quest means they have to
1) Be the third vote on a wagon that reaches L-1, reflected on the vote count.
2) Be the hammer on whoever gets lynched today.
If succesful Bear will be day copped.

RC doesnt want this to happen and is openly saying that they will quick hammer Ramcius if he gets to L-1.
If you disagree with this, please vote Ramcius and help bring him to L-1 while leaving RC unable to quickhammer.
If you agree with this, then why?
Has Beat fulfilled the first requirement?

Um. I gonna sound like a flake but I think the quest is worth a shot, and I trust RC but I don't want to make this thing more toxic than it is.

I'm skeptical about where this quest came from. This is me being needlessly paranoid, but what if it's bad?

I'm not gonna go against my hydra partner, but I will talk to him.

Ghost
The quest giver has claimed (Real Men Only Jungle). If it's bad and this blows up in our face we lynch them. They'd realize this as scum so I doubt it comes from scum.
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Post Post #1743 (isolation #85) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 126, MariaR wrote:
In post 109, Ouroboros wrote:WRT Maria, not a fan of her voting with me while simultaneously saying something about how she doesn't like my reasons for voting him
Me saying I don't like your reasoning wasn't me sring you I just think you're voting them for the wrong seasons but your end goal is correct.
Doesn't read like Masons here to me.
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #86) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:14 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1744, Ouroboros wrote:we became masons when I realized that I've been in love with her for the past 2 years.
Ok I legit LOL'd at this. Well done.
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Post Post #1760 (isolation #87) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:20 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Kaede, the way Vent posted towards RC, which was the main reason I scumread Vent, makes me confident that Ouroboros is Town.
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Post Post #1765 (isolation #88) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:22 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1762, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 1760, Alchemist21 wrote:Kaede, the way Vent posted towards RC, which was the main reason I scumread Vent, makes me confident that Ouroboros is Town.
But man, RC is so good at scumzors that he could literally fake anything with team coordination.

Or something like that... am i right?
RC could coordinate things like that, but I'm looking at the Vent side of things. Hold on and I'll pull up my Vent case for reference.
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Post Post #1781 (isolation #89) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:35 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 453, Alchemist21 wrote:Ventriloquist's post seem more like they care about keeping suspicion off themself instead of scumhunting and in a way that feels like scum that thinks it can reason itself out of being scumread.
In post 688, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 512, Impossibear wrote:Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.
For me, I've seen scum trying to directly engage with the person scumreading them and try to discredit the validity of the read or try to reason their way out of it. My memory might be a bit hazy example that came to my mind reading Vent's posts was SerraPaladin's posts in the 2016 Team Trap Mafia where he said the player who was scumreading them was doing it for reasons other than the content of their posts. I know Vent's not making that same exact argument but the nature of their defense feels like it comes from that same kind of mindset.

Wrt to my Ank vote, I've seen more content from them as both alignments tbh. It's been a while since I've played with them iirc, but how they're approaching this game doesn't sit right with me and the lack of any explanations makes it harder to actually solidify the read. I'll admit it's a read subject to change but if I have to strongarm some content from them I will.
Vent's tone towards RC was one that was scum attempting to discredit a Townie's read on them. If this were scum theater I would think Vent would have played up the distancing a bit more. If RC were scum, this was either coordinated in the scum PT or RC bussed him unexpectedly. For the former I think Vent plays up the distancing a bit more than he does, and in the case of the latter the initial tone just doesn't match. The distancing probably would have come sooner in the latter case, born from natural frustration which eventually does show up in his posts. I don't think the way Vent tried to talk his way out of RC scumreading him is a SvS interaction ever; it requires Vent to have perfectly manufactured his earlier tone towards RC while also getting frustrated later on. The former requires coordination between RC and vent while the latter suggests RC bussing Vent on a whim and it can't be both.
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Post Post #1929 (isolation #90) » Fri May 18, 2018 3:14 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1921, projectmatt wrote:i think focusing this day on fulfilling the quest is a bad idea that stifles natural conversation/scumhunting/vca

i hope we're done soon
The sooner everyone gets on the same page about the first part the sooner it can be over with.
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Post Post #1962 (isolation #91) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:22 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
If Tchill's claim was meant to get people off hom during the Night Phase I could see Vent's posts towards him as an added attempt to keep people off him during the Day Phase.
In post 741, Ventriloquist wrote:
In post 431, Wraith wrote:
In post 427, Wraith wrote:Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
In post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
Very suspicious post
Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

He uses some rather
absurd
leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.

Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?

I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.
Maybe fakeclaiming is more likely, but that doesn't mean I wasn't trying to help. Either way, I acknowledged that his claim was not believable WHICH IS WHY I suggested joker in the first place, why else make yourself so lynchable? But if you were game for a Tchill lynch and the jester possibility really is so absurd, then why aren't you voting for them instead?

I never made a strong claim against Wilky, but it was odd how he said it wouldn't be far-fetched to have another game with 2 millers when this moderator has done it before. It's like he'd done his research, found the link then knew it was credible because it isn't the first time. I wasn't saying this was the case but it wasn't inaccurate to discuss.
This is one of the posts that came during that really quick string of posts. It looks similar to the kind of defense he was giving to RC, so it's likely to me that Wraith is Town, and pretty much lockTown if Tchill also flips scum given that Wraith has constsntly voted that slot.
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Post Post #1964 (isolation #92) » Sat May 19, 2018 6:32 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

You know I can't find Maria's reason for actually scumreading Vent or if she even ever was.

@Maria
Walk me through all your D1 thoughts regarding both Ventriloquist and Ouroboros.
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Post Post #1966 (isolation #93) » Sat May 19, 2018 10:00 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Your own interests being? I just don't know why you kept sheeping a slot you weren't sure about.
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Post Post #2083 (isolation #94) » Sun May 20, 2018 3:40 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 2071, Ouroboros wrote:VOTE: Wraith

This the shit I don't like.
What's your case on Wraith?
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #95) » Sun May 20, 2018 7:52 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 2165, Ouroboros wrote:OTM you call me scum again you die your slot is awful.

And yeah we're killing wraith today, with the reads people are throwing around I don't trust town to have learned anything from Tchill townflip.

I play like that as scum because you force me to Kaede. My playstyle is one of necessity.
I still want to know why you're scumreading Wraith.
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Post Post #2240 (isolation #96) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:15 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Part of me wonders why we're assuming Town Roleblocker and not scum Roleblocker here. The other part of me thinks scum wouldn't have claimed here anyway.
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Post Post #2246 (isolation #97) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:17 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 2242, Impossibear wrote:Do we think scum claim miller straight away?
If Miller is their actual role, I would say yes.
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Post Post #2253 (isolation #98) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:21 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 2249, Impossibear wrote:
In post 2240, Alchemist21 wrote:Part of me wonders why we're assuming Town Roleblocker and not scum Roleblocker here. The other part of me thinks scum wouldn't have claimed here anyway.
Because we're on a deadline to get information if Math is going to get modkilled, so we make the assumptions that net the most usable information, cutting down on wasted time. We can reconsider if no mod action happens, but worrying about Math's alignment is literally the last concern we should have atm.
Fair enough.
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Post Post #2267 (isolation #99) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:29 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Oh yeah if the Modkill ends the Day we ... Well the quest might be failed since Impossibear can't hammer a wagon.
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Post Post #2278 (isolation #100) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:48 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 2277, Ouroboros wrote:I'm playing settlers of Catan drinking game in no condition to respond and you should know this is NAI at worst. Just leave me alone.
Take a drink everytime you get robbed?
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Post Post #2292 (isolation #101) » Sun May 20, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Ok, the quest can continue then.

Now how do we deal with this Mark/Dave situation?
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Post Post #2754 (isolation #102) » Mon May 21, 2018 9:25 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Has anything significant happened since page 96?

Can anyone voting Wraith actually explain why they think Wraith is scum?
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Post Post #2908 (isolation #103) » Mon May 21, 2018 12:31 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I'm not opposed to a Dunn wagon. Still prefer a Tchill wagon though.

Even with the roleblock claim I don't really want to lynch Dave since there are a few other ways to explain the missing NK.

VOTE: Dunnstral
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Post Post #2912 (isolation #104) » Mon May 21, 2018 12:45 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

You're making me blush. :oops:
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Post Post #3491 (isolation #105) » Wed May 23, 2018 11:32 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I still don’t want to lynch Ram. I still believe in the VI read I had on him.

Don’t want to lynch Dave either. I’ve already given my reasons on why not.

The tchill slot is my preferred lynch. Pun is certainly more vocal but I don’t see anything that says Town to me.

PJM/Dunn are two slots I could lynch even though I have them at null. My vote’s currently on Dunn, leftover from the earlier wagon.

I stopped Townreading MariaR a while back and could also vote there. I think there’s an SvT between Maria and Kokichi so info-wise one of them would be more preferable than PJM or Dunn.

What’s the current VC?
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Post Post #3494 (isolation #106) » Wed May 23, 2018 11:34 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

ETL can I talk with you about OTM for a bit?
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Post Post #3579 (isolation #107) » Wed May 23, 2018 3:35 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: Punreader

Wraith is correct when they say there hasn’t been a case on them (earlier this Day I asked at least twice for a case and got ignored), and I have reasons for Townreading them.
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Post Post #3652 (isolation #108) » Thu May 24, 2018 8:55 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

ETL are you still online?
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Post Post #3886 (isolation #109) » Sun May 27, 2018 6:46 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Let’s get this party started.
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Post Post #3895 (isolation #110) » Sun May 27, 2018 7:06 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I still need to talk to ETL about something.
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Post Post #3924 (isolation #111) » Mon May 28, 2018 2:23 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

My personal punishment for you is that you have to tell us who you are.
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Post Post #3976 (isolation #112) » Tue May 29, 2018 5:51 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 3948, Impossibear wrote:
Alchemist
I'm here now sorta.

ETL
There’s no subtle way to ask this, so I’m just gonna ask. What do you think that Party Starter I sent implies for OTM’s alignment?
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Post Post #4023 (isolation #113) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:28 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4008, Impossibear wrote:dunn
maria
pmatt

possibly one of or one replacing:
kokichi, tchill/pun, dave ?

I'm fine with leaving Maria for today. Need to sort the rest definitively.

Kaede, Alchemist
and maybe Ankamius:
Thoughts on kokichi and punreader? and Dunnstral, I guess.

p-edit:
@Maria
Yeah ok but with RC dead, there's no way to trust that you even have another neighbor at all, much less that the neighbor is even town. Like, now that RC is dead, the whole neighborhood can be used to really easily setup a false clear.

Suppose:

If Maria is scum. RC neighborizes Maria. ScumMaria learns all she needs to about how the role works, team kills RC, and use neighborhood mechanics in scum favor thusly -

Next day, RC dead, Maria claims there is another neighbor (who will actually be scum partner). Refuses to say who it is, that is, until we deliver our shot tonight. Next day, asks for massclaim saying that "outing the result before actions have been claimed is useless", then says that so-and-so visited such-n-such, thus "clearing" said partner, who will be claimed that day.

Thus, if Maria is telling the truth, claiming the partner today only risks one of them dying and confirming her claims, should scum decide to shoot that way. Not really a bad trade if you ask me, because it can still clear Maria.

ETL
Kokichi/Maria probably has 1 scum between them. Pun I’m still thinking is scum, but Dunn’s become a steadily stronger scumread for me.
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Post Post #4025 (isolation #114) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:37 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I’m really thinking OTM is scum. Probably my most confident scumread at this point. Still would like Jingle’s opinion though.

VOTE: OnTheMark
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Post Post #4171 (isolation #115) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:18 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

@Impossibear,
did Jingle ever give input on the Party Starter?

Everyone else is saying OTM is just stubborn Town but I still have a hard time seeing it.

P-edit: Now that I can agree with. :/
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Post Post #4315 (isolation #116) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:28 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

UNVOTE:

Saw Jingle’s post. Made enough sense to me wrt OTM. Later tonight I’ll try to get my head back into this game properly. Was away for my cousin’s wedding the past few days.
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Post Post #4381 (isolation #117) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:48 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4375, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 4373, davesaz wrote:Why is this conversation relevant?
I don't think that is a vague question at all.
I don't see any of this helping to determine anyone's alignment.
So I'm asking what is it that I don't understand.
Wilky said he was blocked.

I am and have been saying Wilky is lying.

People keep saying I could be redirected or bus driven or something and the answer is no.
What about a situation in which a second roleblocker or jailkeeper exists? Jingle mentioned such a thing is possible when considering my role.
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Post Post #4452 (isolation #118) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:05 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I’d stills be scumreading OTM if everyone who knows them better weren’t saying this is just them being them. The straight up refusal to see clearly laid out logic just reeks of scum trying to force a specific narrative no matter what.

And full disclosure on the party starter, the wording says it
ignores
any roleblock or redirect attempt, so it sounds like even one that resolves first by NAR would be bypassed by the Party Starter.

Right now the only mechanical reason to think OTM is Town is that Wilky said they got blocked after OTM claimed to have blocked Dave, which implies the existence of a second, scum-sided roleblocker.
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Post Post #4478 (isolation #119) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:19 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I’ve misread Dave in the past for getting angry too.

I’m not sure about Matt’s claim. It seems like one that could go either way to me. I don’t know the flavor to know if they’re lying about that part.
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Post Post #4479 (isolation #120) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:20 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Does anyone know what the VC is?
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Post Post #4608 (isolation #121) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:27 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4602, GuyInFreezer wrote:
Impossibear, Sole Survivor (
Commonwealth 1-shot Bulletproof Modified Compulsive Vigilante
), was killed Night 3.


Spoiler: Role PM
Sole Survivor
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Sole Survivor (
Commonwealth 1-shot Bulletproof Modified Compulsive Vigilante
)
.

Image

From Sanctuary to the wasteland, the sole survivor wanders to find his mission son, Shaun.





Abilities:
  • I WILL find Shaun:
    Your action is
    compulsive
    , unless you are prevented from using your action.
  • POWER ARMOR:
    You will withstand 1 normal killing attempt on you.
  • Military Trained:
    You are a vigilante. This ability will be disabled for 1 night if you shoot someone who shares your alignment or if you fail to kill your target. Each cooldown will increase by 1 night upon each failed/wrong kill.



Win Condition
  • Eliminate all who are sided with the
    Institute


Kaede Akamatsu received a quest to help out the settlements!

MariaR received a quest to help out the settlements!


Day 4 deadline: (expired on 2018-06-23 14:31:51)
In post 4603, OnTheMark wrote:So I blocked someone.

Looking forward to hearing who it was from you since I am not dead.

The fact there are two quests and not one means Jungle is conf scum.

The fact ETL is town means Dave did the kill or scum shot ETL.

Shooting ETL seems mindbogglingly dumb to me like okay?

Then there is the whole cop check deal that happens.

This is just confusing to me I don’t see why this happened the way it did.
Did you block me? Because something caused my action to fail.

Why does shooting ETL seem dumb to you?
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Post Post #4617 (isolation #122) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:51 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Do you know if it gave them the same quest or 2 different quests?
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Post Post #4626 (isolation #123) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:57 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4620, Ankamius wrote:they were probably blocked
Impossible. The Party Starter I gave them would have made their kill ignore a roleblock or a redirect. Now, if their target were protected, that could have stopped it.
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Post Post #4633 (isolation #124) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:02 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4629, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 4626, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4620, Ankamius wrote:they were probably blocked
Impossible. The Party Starter I gave them would have made their kill ignore a roleblock or a redirect. Now, if their target were protected, that could have stopped it.
I've said this like 200000 times

(Opposite of Weak) Smash! Your action comes (Opposite of last) in all action resolution.

(Not aliens) (Opposite if Strong)! Your target will be roleblocked for the (Opposite of day)

And I asked Gif If I was allowed to do the following and he said yes.
Unless you're saying you roleblocked Impossibear, then this is pointless.
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Post Post #4644 (isolation #125) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:09 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: Maria

I think she's more likely than Dave.

Also if there's scum protective I'd be willing to bet it's Punreader, based on what I saw from Tchill when he was still in the game. Tchill's early claim to me seemed like someone with a strong role claiming something that would make people want to not target him with anything. At first I thought it was Town PR but as time went on and he seem unengaged it started seeming more likely to be scum trying to stay off the radar.
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Post Post #4647 (isolation #126) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:11 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4643, OnTheMark wrote:Oh wait...actually hang on.

ETL's vig shot is explained if ETL tried to shoot Maria and someone doctored Kaede.
Oh, that's true. Would Impossibear have tried to shoot there? I need to revisit their reads.
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Post Post #4650 (isolation #127) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:13 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4646, OnTheMark wrote:That seems like waaaaay too op thought.

Meh I'd rather lynch Dave.
Get Wilky's check tomorrow. I won't block him. I'll null block if I have to. If he lies he's dead.
Lynch Alchemist.
If we still have a game lynch Wilky.

I don't see scum anywhere else.
I seriously don't know how you think I could be scum after giving Impossibear the Party Starter.
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Post Post #4655 (isolation #128) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4439, Impossibear wrote:
In post 35, MariaR wrote:I don't think the miller really needs to be talked on and should just focus on the play of said miller. It can be a fake claim but that doesn't mean it's a scum fake claim either. Just focus on day play and if something comes up we can talk about it.
In post 67, MariaR wrote:I would rather wilky claim first myself because his whole way of going at it gives me bad vibes that I can't really explain compared to dave
I think Dave can only really be scum if Maria is.

The other problem I have with the maria slot is the fact that as soon as RC recruited them into the hood, they stopped contributing altogether and have been attempting to coast on RC's townread.

PLUS the sketchiness re: the neighborhood itself:
- pmatt flipping with a night action condemns the hood, and confirms that at least one or both are scum.
- pmatt flipping with no night action at least confirms that the result was accurate.
- if maria is town, there is absolutely no reason she should not want this. "protecting" the other neighbor is nonsense at this point and serves no purpose.
- if maria is scum, there is every reason to withhold the name of the neighbor, if there even IS another neighbor, because they want to see who we shoot, so they can claim the proper partner to be the supposed neighbor. requiring maria to reveal the neighbor locks her and the neighbor into a commited claim, and allows the lynch flip and night actions to reveal whether they are lying or not. <<<< if maria is town, this should be very desirable. if maria is scum, she is going to try to avoid this at all costs.

PLUS the fake-AF "scout" bs that hs never not once been explained or discussed.

There's obviously a chance she or both could be town and we can prove it. That is exceptionally high utility for town. This is another reason she should claim who the supposed other neighbor is, because should she or the neighbor die, it still allows us to use the surviving member in PoE to narrow the pool if they are town. The only reason one of them would die is if scum is afraid of the neighborhood becoming a masonry, which they cannot avoid even by killing either of them.

ETL
I guess this makes it pretty likely Impossibear shot Maria if they still thought they never outed the neighbor.
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Post Post #4662 (isolation #129) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:26 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 261, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 259, MariaR wrote:I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.
y are you claiming to know what I think?
In post 262, MariaR wrote:
In post 261, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 259, MariaR wrote:I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.
y are you claiming to know what I think?
In post 222, Nero Cain wrote:He's claiming a neg utility role. Hiders are weak by nature, he's saying that GIF has nerfed the role and made it not weak. The idea of 3 neg utility roles irks me. There is a fake claimer in this group.
In post 263, Nero Cain wrote:hey 2016 join date, read the wiki and tell me why I think hiders are weak.
In post 264, MariaR wrote:He brought out the join date boys.
In post 265, Nero Cain wrote:and like like that says shit all about my belief about the town power or lack thereof. I don't really buy your thing as a real town thought.
In post 266, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 264, MariaR wrote:He brought out the join date boys.
deflect
In post 267, MariaR wrote:You're saying I can't find that genuine when from my "join date" I didn't know why you thought that so why did you just think "oh it's a scum thought process" right away? Also just because you point to wiki and find a role weak doesn't mean it can't be in the game that's not the issue at hand here. The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with it's not me saying you don't think hiders are weak I don't really care about that. I just don't get why you closed off the thought of "oh maybe they could all be town" Do you sr people in the group besides the claims? I see you tr wilk because you don't see scum him ccing but what do you feel about dave and tchi play wise?
In post 266, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 264, MariaR wrote:He brought out the join date boys.
deflect
If I didn't want to answer a question of yours nero I would just openly say I'm not answering it (B


In post 250, Ouroboros wrote:HAHA JUST KIDDING

VOTE: ventriloquist

happy birthday motherfucker
Talk to me on this
In post 260, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 242, MariaR wrote:
In post 225, Dunnstral wrote:VOTE: Nero Cain

This seems good
In post 227, Dunnstral wrote:Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town
VOTE: Nero
this is scum sheeping dumb town.

vote:Maria
This post started a pretty serious 1v1 with Maria and I had forgotten about it. It's making me think Maria might be the Towny one between her and Dave.

VOTE: Davesaz
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Post Post #4663 (isolation #130) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:26 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Oh god I did not mean to quote all those.
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Post Post #4666 (isolation #131) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:35 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

PJM's campaign against mechanics while it provided a defense for Dave is also a bad look for Dave.
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Post Post #4676 (isolation #132) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:51 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 3747, GuyInFreezer wrote:
Ouroboros, Deacon,
Commonwealth Limited Neighborizer Conditional Shared Tracker
, was killed Night 2.


Spoiler: Role PM
Deacon
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Deacon (
Commonwealth Limited Neighborizer Conditional Shared Tracker
)
.

Image

Master of disguise, Deacon works as a member of Railroad to free the runaway synths.





Abilities:
  • Recruit:
    During the night, you may recruit a player to your neighborhood. You can only invite up to two members. If for any reason one of your member dies, you may recruit again up to the maximum members.
  • Railroad:
    Recruiting a member awards you with 1-shot track for the neighborhood. This ability is a shared ability and the majority of the neighborhood must agree to a target. Recruiting the member of the
    Institute
    will permanently compromise this ability and you will get "no visit" result for all investigations, regardless of your target's actual actions.



Win Condition
  • Eliminate all who are sided with the
    Institute


Day 3 deadline: (expired on 2018-06-09 23:05:14)

Ouroboros received a quest to help out the settlements!
@MOD, Regarding this quoted role, if a member of the Institute were recruited on the same Night as a Track attempt, would that Night's Track attempt return a "no visit" result?
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Post Post #4685 (isolation #133) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: MariaR
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Post Post #4688 (isolation #134) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Fine.

[unvote[/unvote]

I don't want to go through a ton of hassle like the Impossibear quest and then have him fuck up again though.
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Post Post #4690 (isolation #135) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:03 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Oh fuck that.

VOTE: Maria
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Post Post #4691 (isolation #136) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:04 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4689, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:can someone run me through why Maria is scum? cos I still think Dave is scum. Maybe both, who knows?
Maria was the only other one in the hood when they tried to track Matt. Got "No Result" on matt, who had an active ability, so per Ouroboros' role it means Maria was scum.
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Post Post #4751 (isolation #137) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:29 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4748, wilky wrote:Ugh, action failed again. Fairly obvious I won't be getting a result here.

Jungle can you tell us about your quest today? I'm with kaede in thinking today should be the last chance to get a quest done.
As long as nobody counterclaims this I'm taking it as a innocent on Wilky.

I'll wait to hear Jungle's quest before voting anywhere.
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Post Post #4755 (isolation #138) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4753, Ankamius wrote:The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him
I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.
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Post Post #4778 (isolation #139) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:38 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4777, Punreader wrote:
In post 4775, YT2980 wrote:punreader, did you get any indication from the mod that your action failed?
No, which is standard for roleblocked individuals in most instances; they only receive notification if it is an action they always would receive notification on.
When OTM blocked me I was told my action failed, but tried the exact same action last Night and didn’t receive any message about it.
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Post Post #4897 (isolation #140) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:08 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I checked his profile earlier and his last visit was recorded on the 11th. I’d give him another rl day but I also would not wait forever.

Pun’s VCA assumes scum are all doing the same thing. “If 2, why not 3” was used more than once and it’s based on a flawed assumption imo.
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Post Post #4943 (isolation #141) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Kaede what do you think of Kokichi?

Like, I want to say he's Town because of his 1v1 with Maria, but I thought Nero and Maria was TvS too and it turned out to be scum theater so now I'm not sure about Kokichi.
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Post Post #4955 (isolation #142) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:21 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4951, davesaz wrote:My money is on Jungle for scum BTW.
Private info that I can't share indicates that the Impossibear quest would have gone through even if Jungle made the alleged mistake.


Actually, I was going to say that I'm only waiting because the IC wants to wait, but fuck waiting.
VOTE: REAL MEN ONLY JUNGLE

I'm going to go back to concentrating on my day job.
Why didn’t you say something about this earlier and why can’t the info be shared in some form?
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Post Post #4970 (isolation #143) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:56 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Man those lemmings really got you fucked up.
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Post Post #4975 (isolation #144) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I'm about to reread Lazy's and Kokichi's ISO.

Right now it seems like everyone in the game has something or another I could point to and say, "this person is Town," so I probably need to do a reset on my reads.
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Post Post #4978 (isolation #145) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I doubt it's a simple fruit vendor role tbh. It's publicly announced and called a quest. I actually give items away that do stuff and it's not publicly announced. If it's Town, why bother with that when my role exists, when it's basically the same but better? And if scum, why give something so useless to scum? Unless you think he has another ability? And why even come up with these ridiculous criteria for the quests if they weren't true instead of just saying "guys the quests don't actually do anything they're just flavor." That would have made Jungle a lot more credible to people than fucking up the quest we spent a Day trying to do.
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Post Post #4979 (isolation #146) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:07 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4977, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 4972, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Oh right Alchemist.
I have found that Kokichi Oma, from personal experience, tends to be scumread when town, however I have also noticed a distinct lack of activity and "doing stuff" in this game, but im not sure if it means scum as I spectated a single scum game of Kokichi Oma and he was kinda "doing stuff" in that game.

Suffice to say im conflicted enough to not give a definite townread but if he's last scum, i'd expect him to be doing more towards moving the scum wincon forward.
Yes I tried to bus my strong arm day 2.
That same slot was also in a 1v1 with the scum role cop D1, which is why my Townread of you is in doubt now.
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Post Post #4986 (isolation #147) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:12 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4983, davesaz wrote:I issued this challenge before, and I'm renewing it. Erase the quests from the game. Read Jungle
strictly on posting
.
There is absolutely nothing town about that slot if you remove the quests.
Actually I was Townreading him on D1 before the quests came up because he had a certain tone to his posts that I thought was Towny. Like he was pretty vocal at the time and didn't seem like he cared if he brought attention to himself or not. "fast-and-loose" is how I want to describe it.
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Post Post #4988 (isolation #148) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:13 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4985, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.
Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.
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Post Post #5008 (isolation #149) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:04 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4991, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 4988, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4985, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.
Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.
What makes you think he got blocked last night?
He claimed it and nobody has counterclaimed getting blocked.
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Post Post #5010 (isolation #150) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:07 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4748, wilky wrote:Ugh, action failed again. Fairly obvious I won't be getting a result here.

Jungle can you tell us about your quest today? I'm with kaede in thinking today should be the last chance to get a quest done.
In post 4751, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4748, wilky wrote:Ugh, action failed again. Fairly obvious I won't be getting a result here.

Jungle can you tell us about your quest today? I'm with kaede in thinking today should be the last chance to get a quest done.
As long as nobody counterclaims this I'm taking it as a innocent on Wilky.

I'll wait to hear Jungle's quest before voting anywhere.
This isn't the first time I've said this.
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Post Post #5012 (isolation #151) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:10 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Is Dave claiming to have been blocked?
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Post Post #5018 (isolation #152) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:20 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Actually, for some reason I forgot about OTM saying they didn't block Wilky and the whole conversation about it and remembered Wilky as being one of OTM's targets during the game. I do derp sometimes.
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Post Post #5020 (isolation #153) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:24 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Which would be? I know how an rb interacts with roles without actions, I just don't know if Dave has an action or not and can't remember if he's claimed one way or the other.
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Post Post #5025 (isolation #154) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:34 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5021, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 5020, Alchemist21 wrote:Which would be? I know how an rb interacts with roles without actions, I just don't know if Dave has an action or not and can't remember if he's claimed one way or the other.
Yeah, he claimed no abilities other than being miller back in Day 1, but that's irrelevant, assuming someone without an action were to be roleblocked they wouldnt know they were, why were you asking for a counterclaim on being blocked?
In case Wilky was lying, because I took his no result claim as a blocked claim. What is true is that we haven't had any results from Wilky so far so it did seem a bit convenient if he were scum.
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Post Post #5033 (isolation #155) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:40 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5022, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Also what are people thoughts on conducting a mass claim?
I think most people have claimed already. I don't think it would hurt unless there's still an unclaimed Town PR that would be better to stay hidden.
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Post Post #5035 (isolation #156) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:43 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: RMOJ

L-1.
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Post Post #5047 (isolation #157) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5042, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:i was first on pmatt
Point me to your actual case on pjm. You were actually second on the wagon, then left and returned to make it L-2. The first vote seemed strictly OMGUS and I can't see where your case is anywhere in your ISO.
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Post Post #5061 (isolation #158) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:53 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5056, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 5047, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 5042, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:i was first on pmatt
Point me to your actual case on pjm. You were actually second on the wagon, then left and returned to make it L-2. The first vote seemed strictly OMGUS and I can't see where your case is anywhere in your ISO.
having no cases makes me even more towny. having a case means it’s a planned bus. idiot. keep on continuing to think effort = town though and being a filthy casual
Who said it was a planned bus? Because it looks like you got voted by a buddy and threw out a vote back, then backed off when you thought you could and rejoined the wagon when it looked certain he was going down that Day. And calling me an idiot is a damn good way to make me keep my vote on you.
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Post Post #5062 (isolation #159) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:56 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Seriously, you're trying to take Town credit for being on PJM when you have absolutely no right to do so.
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Post Post #5073 (isolation #160) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5063, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 5061, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 5056, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 5047, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 5042, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:i was first on pmatt
Point me to your actual case on pjm. You were actually second on the wagon, then left and returned to make it L-2. The first vote seemed strictly OMGUS and I can't see where your case is anywhere in your ISO.
having no cases makes me even more towny. having a case means it’s a planned bus. idiot. keep on continuing to think effort = town though and being a filthy casual
Who said it was a planned bus? Because it looks like you got voted by a buddy and threw out a vote back, then backed off when you thought you could and rejoined the wagon when it looked certain he was going down that Day. And calling me an idiot is a damn good way to make me keep my vote on you.
that’s what makes me town, n00b

case in point
How exactly does that make you Town? You're not doing yourself any favors here.
In post 5064, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:
In post 5062, Alchemist21 wrote:Seriously, you're trying to take Town credit for being on PJM when you have absolutely no right to do so.
“I was first on pjm”

“no, you were second”

that’s your fucking argument? go fuck a cow. and read pun’s case on why I’m town

get good
That wasn't my argument and you know it.
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Post Post #5076 (isolation #161) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:31 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

*sigh*

Ok, let's all back up here.

UNVOTE:

Why are we all getting pissed right now? Most likely only one scum left and instead of strengthening the Town cohesion it's somehow making it worse. Maybe we all need to take 5.
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Post Post #5082 (isolation #162) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:44 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I think you, Pun, and Kokichi. I can't remember if Ram's claimed or not.
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Post Post #5084 (isolation #163) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

That's nearly 2 weeks. :/
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Post Post #5088 (isolation #164) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:49 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4599, GuyInFreezer wrote:
projectmatt, Piper (
Institute Role Cop
), was lynched Day 3.


Spoiler: Role PM
Piper
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Piper (
Institute Rolecop
)
.

Image

A reporter in Diamond City who seeks truth... well, but you're the bodysnatched one.





Abilities:
  • Bodyswapped:
    Your flavor is safe to claim as is.
  • I'm a reporter, dammit:
    During the night, you may learn your target's role.



Win Condition
  • Take control of half of the alive players, or when it can not be prevented.


Night 3 deadline: (expired on 2018-06-08 17:38:00)
As far as I know though nobody has claimed Flavor names and this flip indicates not all scum had safeclaims for their flavor names. So a mass flavor claim is probably a good idea if we do the regular massclaim.
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Post Post #5092 (isolation #165) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:51 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

Oh right I forgot pun replaced Tchill's slot.
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Post Post #5099 (isolation #166) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:54 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

I'm ok with claiming too.
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Post Post #5107 (isolation #167) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:57 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5103, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:kaede punreader Ankamius myself <—- 0% chance of scum

kokichi Dunnstral <—- 5%

Remaining is:

Daveasz Willy alchemist
Honestly I'd say Dunnstral has an even lower chance of being scum than Kokichi. Maria tried to buddy him pretty hard.
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Post Post #5117 (isolation #168) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:02 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5112, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:look if punreader is a hider/weak whatever then he must have some clears. Let’s work from there
The claim is that they're a hider but don't die if they hide behind scum.
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Post Post #5127 (isolation #169) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5123, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:We haven’t had any investigatives except my failed d1 daycop and wilky’s bunk slow cop which works even worse than my quest
So, why do we have 2 millers?
Maybe because of the potential for actions/results to be duplicated? To weaken the vig by giving them targets? Because it's GiF? I'm not sure.
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Post Post #5137 (isolation #170) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:09 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

A birthday? No, 2 birthdays!

Happy birthday, Kaede & Ank!
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Post Post #5144 (isolation #171) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:18 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Shouldn’t that be “dia gran” since adjectives come after?
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Post Post #5146 (isolation #172) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:23 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

VOTE: Wilky

Where are you? It’s been about 3 days since your last post.
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Post Post #5148 (isolation #173) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:30 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Thank you! TIL
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Post Post #5155 (isolation #174) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:32 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5151, Kokichi Oma wrote:Wilky claims to have been blocked twice right?
He claims his actions have failed twice. The first time OTM said they didn’t block Wilky. The second time we don’t know for sure but it’s unlikely given where OTM’s reads were.
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Post Post #5169 (isolation #175) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:37 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

My other item just makes the user’s next action reflexive in addition to its normal use.
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Post Post #5171 (isolation #176) » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:49 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

You’re saying I should give it to Kaede then?
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Post Post #5184 (isolation #177) » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:03 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Why do you think it’s Dunn?
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Post Post #5227 (isolation #178) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:35 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I really don’t think it’s Dave. I still don’t think he claims Miller unless he’s an actual Miller. To that end, Wilky’s counterclaim makes him even more likely to be Town than Dave. The Nero/pjm slot was an actual role cop and the only flipped scum whom’s role explicitly mentioned having safe flavor. I’d be willing to bet that scum rolecop was meant to look like it fit as a Town PR in a game with 2 Millers.

VOTE: Dunn
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Post Post #5232 (isolation #179) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:52 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5230, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:>I want to lynch Dave
>I get yelled at and told to not lynch Dave
>I want to lynch Jungle
>I get yelled at and told to not lynch Jungle
>I want to lynch Dave again
>Dave AtEs and threatens to quote role PM
>I want to lynch wilky
>BUT WILKY'S LIKE CLOSE TO CONF TOWN
>I want to lynch Dunn
>NO, DONT FUCK IT UP, LYNCH DAVE
>Decides to vote dave
>NO, SCREW YOU LET'S LYNCH DUNN INSTEAD
>me
*table flips*
LMAO I’m sorry.
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Post Post #5234 (isolation #180) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:53 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5231, Ankamius wrote:dw kaede it was me all along
It would honestly be hilarious if it is you.
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Post Post #5236 (isolation #181) » Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:55 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5233, YT2980 wrote:What’s with all this flip-flopping today? My goodness, it’s a bit crazy

@mod: a vote count would be greatly appreciated as soon as you can provide one!


Are we discounting townreads at this point? I’m not up for that, and I say that because I really don’t think dunnstral is a good lynch choice. Scumstral actively defending the davesaz lynch makes no sense for a scum member, unless they happen to be teammates which I highly highly doubt, so instant townlean on that; and plus, you got the whole maria situation where dunnstral should be cleared because he was investigated BY maria. Why would scum ever have any incentive to investigate THEIR own member? that would be NUTS.
Do we have proof she actually targeted Dunn? That scout thing wasn’t a real action submission.
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Post Post #5264 (isolation #182) » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:47 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

I believe it’s highly plausible scum has something to either block or redirect. I don’t see the point in my party starter item if it was meant as just a bypass to another Town PR. Like why does my role need to exist if the only roleblocker in the game is also Town and there are no redirectors?
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Post Post #5265 (isolation #183) » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:56 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 4234, Impossibear wrote:
Spoiler: WRT OTM/ALCH
In post 4171, Alchemist21 wrote:
@Impossibear,
did Jingle ever give input on the Party Starter?

Everyone else is saying OTM is just stubborn Town but I still have a hard time seeing it.

P-edit: Now that I can agree with. :/
My drunk post ate my input. Sorry.

Town OTM and town you is possible if we make the additional assumption of Scum JK/Busdriver. Preliminary setup spec says that the odds of one of those two is near 100%, because there's no scum motivation to give US specifically the Party Starter and OTM has been playing to their town meta. There is no way your role and OTM's are both town without another role affected by your role. And, having made that bit of theory leap, your role is almost outed already, so I'm just going to stop talking in riddles about this particular piece of information.

Alchemist gave us a Party Starter last night. I confirmed this to him via crumb early today and he responded in kind, so I'm 100% sure it came from him. The party starter makes us strong willed.

There is no scum motivation to giving the vig the Party Starter if the vig is hard townreading you (we were, fairly obviously). There is no scum motivation in NOT giving the strong willed modifier to your partner if there is a town RB. OTM claimed yesterday. The paranoia wrt to OTM makes perfect sense from someone who isn't nuts in the exact same way as me

This doesn't discount the OTM is town argument, however. I don't see OTM as a player reacting to the hebi situation the same way as scum. The dave target N1 was an objectively good RB target for town. It was an objectively terrible target for scum, and claiming it when you didn't target dave under no pressure makes no sense at all unless we assume hebi is either A. an idiot or B. suicidal. The dave retarget makes sense from the POV of someone absolutely convinced that dave is scum, which fits OTM's play to a T. Compounding that, every word of pun's wall about OTM rings true to my knowledge of them as a player. TBF, I have seen scum OTM much less frequently than town OTM, but this? This is town OTM. This is genuine frustration that people are playing "wrong" not cackling with glee as people play "wrong" and tear themselves apart.
In post 4199, OnTheMark wrote:
I just don’t think that is a thing. It’s more likely a fruit vendor than a new type of action.
You're looking at this wrong, btw. Someone came up with the new type of action. The question is, was it GiF or Jungle. Given the rest of the setup so far, my bet is heavily on GiF. The reason (THE ONLY REASON) I doubt the claim and think it might be a public fruit vendor is because of the way Jungle approached the quest. Specifically, he did not claim any additional input was necessary from him at the time of the original claim to the best of my knowledge, nor did he object when I claimed my plan to quickhammer any wagon that hit L-1, which apparently would have fucked up his action.

Objectively speaking, Jungle is neither locktown nor confscum. If we lynch him, it's a policy lynch. (A policy lynch I passively support, but ETL thinks he's town so a bad one nonetheless, when we have legitimately scummy players to sort.)


Alch and OTM are both locktown, though not conftown. Jungle is null from a mechanical standpoint, but I could endorse a policy lynch if ETL wasn't townreading the slot independently. Objectively speaking, knowing me/RC are both town, Jungle putting himself in the middle of that fight to calm us both down took balls of steel if he's scum. If I'm wrong about his identity, he's 100% town for it. I find this very unlikely. Either way, thanks for doing so, friend. :)

Pun is solidly town atm, both because the wall post is exactly what I expect from town pun at this point in the game, AND because of RC's setup spec D2. I can find and link if anyone needs that explained. There are, however, several points that needs be addressed.

Spoiler: Pun Response
GIF already answered your mod question. The player flips with whatever role they died with, and the swap could be used ad nauseam. As such, we know that Vent was a roleswapper when he died, but not what role he entered the game with, suggesting that the rest of the scumteam has an incredible amount of power, but probably not a godfather.

Your Maria read is based partially on an inconsistency in claims. This is not the case. AFAICR, there is nothing suggesting that Maria has an investigative independent of her shared investigative with RC. However, the rest of your analysis of her play rings true and I support the scumread there.

With that said, I'm going to drop an action plan for Maria shortly to hopefully turn her and her neighbor into a mason pair, so it's a bad lynch today anyway.

I remain unsure we were the nightkill N1. I also maintain that it really doesn't matter, from a guilty/inno on dave perspective. We simply don't know enough to know if there is another hidden action manipulating things, and I find it likely there is.

I don't think you should telegraph your hide tonight because:


Spoiler: There's probably a busdriver
So, I mentioned earlier that there being a busdriver necessarily means that OTM/Alch could both be town. Here's why it's probably that specific role, or at least a role in that family.

When I said that the Party Starter made us strongwilled, that was a slight lie. GiF didn't use that modifier, he spelled out what that modifier does. This is evidence that GiF is unaware of the modifier's existence, but also weak evidence that there is both a blocking and redirecting role in the setup.

Busdriver interacts favorably with vigs, hiders, slowcops, and Jungle's role. It significantly reduces the amount of power available to us by making it so that if we choose predictable targets, scum can turn our kill into a second scumkill. It gives scum a chance to fuck with the hider role in a way that makes the modification to the hider role important. It can't give fake guilties, real guilties, and can be an extra scumkill if used poorly. The slowcop interaction is almost as strong as a roleblocker, but not quite. See, with a redirector/busdriver, wilky has a chance to hit the player he was redirected to the next night.

The NAR portion of OTM's role also suggests that this kind of role exists. Basically, from what I can glean OTM is motivated (They act first). This resolves the potential action interaction annoyance of having multiple blocking/redirecting roles in the same setup. This means town has a way of making the scum kill not a functional strongman (should scum choose to use their busdriver that way).

Jungle's role also interacts favorably with a busdriver. The public portion of the quest tells him immediately if he's redirected, and if his role is town he can now inform us that the role exists and he was redirected.


And finally:
Spoiler: @ Maria
Lynching Maria today is DUMB.

Lynching Dunn is interesting, in that if he has an active power that's basically a hard guilty on Maria, but I don't really want to consider or the implications thereof atm.

Here's how we deal with the Maria sitch:

1. Maria outs neighborhood partner. Said partner corroborates or CC's all information received from Maria today.
2. Maria confirms with GIF that they still have access to the group track.
3. Maria tells us whether they have/had daytalk.
4. Maria confirms with GIF whether a roleblock on a member of the neighborhood will stop the track, or whether every member of the neighborhood needs to be roleblocked to stop the track.
5. Maria targets us or OTM tonight (Or Kaede). If they receive a result, they become a pair of masons. If they don't, then there is confirmed a scum in the grouping. Yes, I am confirming we will use our murderlating powers tonight.
6. Maria tells us whether she was recruited to the neighborhood thread overnight or at Daystart.

Clearly I'm making some assumptions about how the role works here, but I think I covered all the relevant questions that neighborhood members need to ask.
Impossibear had a lot to say on the subject.
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Post Post #5276 (isolation #184) » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:39 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5272, Ankamius wrote:
In post 5248, GuyInFreezer wrote:
davesaz (4):
punreader, Ankamius, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, Kaede Akamatsu
In post 5248, GuyInFreezer wrote:
wilky (4):
Dunnstral, Alchemist21, Kokichi Oma, YT2980
one of these wagons is more trustworthy than the other
My vote’s not even supposed to be on Wilky so you can take my name off that wagon.
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Post Post #5306 (isolation #185) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:58 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Do you have any objections to a lynch on one of the people in Kaede’s pool? I think what she’s getting at is that scum have avoided claiming because a massclaim would break the game and their claims aren’t safe. I remember pjm was pretty pissed at people basing things off mechanics, and again their role was the only scum role we’ve seen that explicitly said their flavor was safe.
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Post Post #5309 (isolation #186) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5308, YT2980 wrote:
In post 5306, Alchemist21 wrote:Do you have any objections to a lynch on one of the people in Kaede’s pool? I think what she’s getting at is that scum have avoided claiming because a massclaim would break the game and their claims aren’t safe. I remember pjm was pretty pissed at people basing things off mechanics, and again their role was the only scum role we’ve seen that explicitly said their flavor was safe.
This isn’t a bad theory in practice, but it would depend on 2 things.
Do we have any evidence of safe claims from the other scum so far; further, did we get evidence from the prior scum flips?
And, also does gif give scum claims that would make sense in the game context based on their actions? I’m venturing an ill-conceived assumption that one would not intentionally endanger scum by giving a bunch of plausible claims to town and not giving scum one as well. That would be a poor game design, and would depend upon how well gif designs this game.

As I’ve stated before in this thread, I’m all for a mass-claim personally, but there seems to be some rather unstated resistance.

There’s currently 4 votes in favor of it: kaede, me, rmoj, and dunnstral iirc. 2 more needed for me to officially state my role.
PJM's role explicitly mentioned flavor being safe. I don't remember either of the other flipped scum claiming flavor before they were actually lynched.
Spoiler: Role PM
Piper
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Piper (
Institute Rolecop
)
.

Image

A reporter in Diamond City who seeks truth... well, but you're the bodysnatched one.





Abilities:
  • Bodyswapped:
    Your flavor is safe to claim as is.
  • I'm a reporter, dammit:
    During the night, you may learn your target's role.



Win Condition
  • Take control of half of the alive players, or when it can not be prevented.
I also made a point in an earlier post about how I think PJM's role could have been meant to be the "plausible" role for the scum team.
In post 5227, Alchemist21 wrote:I really don’t think it’s Dave. I still don’t think he claims Miller unless he’s an actual Miller. To that end, Wilky’s counterclaim makes him even more likely to be Town than Dave. The Nero/pjm slot was an actual role cop and the only flipped scum whom’s role explicitly mentioned having safe flavor. I’d be willing to bet that scum rolecop was meant to look like it fit as a Town PR in a game with 2 Millers.

VOTE: Dunn
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Post Post #5311 (isolation #187) » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:05 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

It wasn't.
In post 1037, GuyInFreezer wrote:
"Wooooooo we gottem boys!"


Ventriloquist, Second-Gen Synth (
Institute Factional Ability Swapper
), was terminated via mob lynching Day 1.


Spoiler: Role PM
Second-Gen Synth
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Second-Gen Synth (
Institute Factional Ability Swapper
)
.

Image

A common Institute mook.





Abilities:
  • Bodyswap:
    At any point of the game, you may switch your role with your factional members by PMing the mod.



Win Condition
  • Take control of half of the alive players, or when it can not be prevented.
In post 4743, GuyInFreezer wrote:
MariaR, Kellogg (
Institute 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot Strongman Reconneusieur
), was lynched Day 4.


Spoiler: Role PM
Kellogg
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Kellogg (
Institute 1-shot Bulletproof 1-shot Strongman Reconneusieur
)
.

Image

Stone-faced killer hired by the Institute.





Abilities:
  • Cybernetic-enhanced:
    You will withstand 1 normal killing attempt on you.
  • Seasoned Killer:
    Once per game, your nightkill will bypass any sort of protection.
  • Reconnaissance:
    Whoever your target visits/visits the target will be followed by you.



Win Condition
  • Take control of half of the alive players, or when it can not be prevented.


Night 4 deadline: (expired on 2018-06-12 12:39:43)
One caveat is that PJM's role was worded "safe to claim
as-is
", so it's possible something was in place to help them claim flavor, but I'm not sure what that would be and why it would necessitate PJM's role explicitly saying the flavor was safe.
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Post Post #5344 (isolation #188) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:52 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5340, GuyInFreezer wrote:
Kaede Akamatsu. Codsworth (
Commonwealth Innocent Action Conductor
), was killed Night 5.


Spoiler: Role PM
Codsworth
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Codsworth (
Commonwealth Innocent Action Conductor
)
.

Image

Once a butler, always a butler. Proud to serve.





Abilities:
  • Mr. Handy is not a synth:
    Upon PMing the mod, you will be declared innocent.
  • Proud to Serve!:
    During the night, you may choose a target. All actions targetting you will also target your target.



Win Condition
  • Eliminate all who are sided with the
    Institute


Day 6 deadline: (expired on 2018-07-07 17:24:09)

Alchemist21 received a quest to help out the settlements
Well, what’s the quest this time?
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Post Post #5347 (isolation #189) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:29 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5346, Ankamius wrote:is it relevant at all that the way the quest announcements are different all the time or is it just GIF being weird
I don’t see how the announcements have been different save for the lack of exclamation mark on this one which I assume is a typo.
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Post Post #5357 (isolation #190) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:18 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Lol
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Post Post #5361 (isolation #191) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:52 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5350, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 5349, YT2980 wrote:thinking it’s a possibility she did not submit anything :-/
I think it proves scum roleblocker
I agree with Dunn. Kaede’s post history shows she’s been constantly active since the Night Phase started. There’s no way she forgot about this game. It’s weird YT keeps pushing the “she didn’t act” perspective.

I’m conflicted on Wilky. He has a pretty convenient cover for why he has no results yet, but the biggest thing making it hard to see himas scum is that Miller counterclaim. I do remember others thinking he backed off it pretty easily though. I need to reread his early posts.
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Post Post #5362 (isolation #192) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:22 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 1037, GuyInFreezer wrote:
"Wooooooo we gottem boys!"


Ventriloquist, Second-Gen Synth (
Institute Factional Ability Swapper
), was terminated via mob lynching Day 1.


Spoiler: Role PM
Second-Gen Synth
Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!


You are
Second-Gen Synth (
Institute Factional Ability Swapper
)
.

Image

A common Institute mook.





Abilities:
  • Bodyswap:
    At any point of the game, you may switch your role with your factional members by PMing the mod.



Win Condition
  • Take control of half of the alive players, or when it can not be prevented.
@Mod, Would this role have switched the players' flavors too?
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Post Post #5364 (isolation #193) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:04 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 52, wilky wrote:I'm also going to hardclaim miller here and the miller has a flavour name too so i'd like to put the question to dave on what's the flavour name of your miller role.

Until then
VOTE: Davesaz
In post 70, wilky wrote:I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.
So he gave Dave an out despite his assumption that there would only be 1 miller. Beyond mod meta I don't think anyone has any reason to think 2 millers and it sounds like Wilky hadn't even thought there could be 2 millers until other people suggested it.
In post 89, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 87, wilky wrote:So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?
Like this is SUCH an "I'm scum and didn't have fakeclaims" response.
From the flips we can tell most of the scum didn't have fakeclaims.

RC was also the one who kept suggesting GiF would eventually do 1 Town Miller and 1 scum Miller, although iirc people cited multiple GiF games with multiple Town Millers and hasn't broken the meta yet. Maybe RC was right though...
In post 234, wilky wrote:
In post 233, Impossibear wrote:Hey, someone with time and nothing better to do:

Find games GiF's run with multiple millers.
Crossreference playerlists with wilky/dave.
Find any other games with wilky/dave and multiple millers.

Link all of those for me to go through.

TYIA

~Jingle

I can make this slightly easier for whoever does this if anyone. This is my first game with any sort of miller i'm sure so there won't be any with me and multiple millers.
This makes it even weirder that the out was given. I imagine someone with 0 miller experience doesn't ever expect 2 millers to be in a game.

I think a full flavor claim from Wilky is in order. I'm willing to vote him at this point. Kinda wish I'd waited for Wilky's claim before asking the mod that question.

VOTE: Wilky
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Post Post #5370 (isolation #194) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:56 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5365, YT2980 wrote:besides, if we do actually hypothesize that there IS indeed a scum roleblocker variant in play, then wouldn’t that imply wilky is almost confirmably town? i’m conflicted right now on how that would imply he’s scum. the only plausible theory i can gather is that he would be the scum roleblocker-variant himself, but that doesn’t make sense because nobody else claims to have been tampered with from what i know, so what scum incentive could he be catering to given the evidence we have? it’s making less sense the more i sit and think about it.
I have considered this too, and if Wilky's scum, he's been deliberately not acting every other Night to maintain cover. I'm hoping a flavor claim and perhaps the mod's answer to my question can help clear things up.

P-edit: Nick Valentine? That makes a lot of sense actually. I was looking through some characters on the wiki and he was one I found. He's actually a synth based on a former human who was a detective, but due to having the original Nick's memories he believed he really was Nick and defected from the institute with another synth named DiMA.

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #5372 (isolation #195) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:03 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5371, Dunnstral wrote:The only weird thing is RMOJ never being roleblocked
Well, there was a point where he was nearly lynched. Perhaps scum are hoping to keep that option open, and if they block him it would become obvious that he was blocked and therefore Town.
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Post Post #5374 (isolation #196) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:47 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5085, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Wilky - Miller Slow cop (MariaR, MariaR (Failed), ???, ??? (Failed))
Me - Innocent Child with the ability to copy actions (Ouroboros, Kokichi, MariaR, No Action)
Yt - ????
Ankamius - ????
punreader - Non Weak Hider (No action, Forgot, Forgot, Kokichi)
Dunnstral - ????
Kokichi - ????
davesaz - Miller
Alchemist - Some sort of item giver (????, Impossibear (Strongwilled), ????, ????)
RMOJ - Quest giver (Impossibear (Public day cop), Ouroboros (Permanent BP), Me/MariaR (Commuter for 3 nights in a row), Me (Deathproof for 3 cycles(?) in a row))
Kaede actually claimed No Action for one of the Nights so it actually is possible she took No Action last Night.
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Post Post #5375 (isolation #197) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:49 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

Where does everyone currently stand on a mass flavor claim? No actions, just flavor. I'm in favor of it.
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Post Post #5378 (isolation #198) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:44 am

Post by Alchemist21 »

A role claim might help, but at this point we know what specific role we're looking for and we also know scum likely aren't going to claim their real flavor. I'm putting some hope in the small chance scum gets caught lying about their flavor and gets counterclaimed in a massclaim. If it goes nowhere then we don't suffer much. The same hope could be put in a mass roleclaim, and possibly help narrow the pool a bit, but if it goes nowhere it's more harmful by giving scum more info about Town PRs.

If someone does have useful info and wants to come forward though, I won't stop them.
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Post Post #5387 (isolation #199) » Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:40 pm

Post by Alchemist21 »

In post 5385, Dunnstral wrote:Trashcan Carla, Commonwealth Vanilla

PunReader pointed out that he thought I softed pr a long time ago, That's why I think that MariaR rolecopped me and then did the scout action later as an open thing to build a claim from
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Trashcan_Carla

Your character has weak ties to the Institute. I’m tempted to vote you for this but it would have been stupid for you to claim this as scum and I’m expecting one of 2 different names and this was neither of them. Still, if a better option doesn’t appear I’d have you at the top of the suspect list.
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