Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)
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Hardclaim Miller.
VOTE: Ventriloquist
Because scum like to make people their puppets.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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@hydrae: Signing your posts would be much appreciated.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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There are some who prefer not to hear self meta but since you asked might as well. I would say it's more accurately an aversion to gambits as any alignment.In post 15, Ouroboros wrote:@Dave- Can you attest to this behavioral preference as something you do, regardless of alignment?
Not claiming miller as town would be a gambit on hoping to not be investigated.
While we're on the subject of self meta and laying low, it is also true that I'm usually passive until I have a substantial lead to follow.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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SVS?In post 29, MariaR wrote:
But you're voting me and I am also town so we have an issue!In post 27, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
But i claimed town and you're voting me!In post 25, MariaR wrote:
What no! I hate voting town so I'm not going to vote town you see? I will vote only the scum as the good towny I am. UnlikeIn post 24, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:I already claimed town, do you like voting town? Only scum votes town.you
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Oh, is that a thing with GiF games?
I am willing to reveal flavor as requested, but would like to hear opinions on whether it's actually helpful and on whether the other miller claim should be required to do the same (presumably yes on first question implies absolutely yes on 2nd but that's just my opinion).Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I agree with all the hider discussion on this page. And TChill is not behaving the same way he did in previous games where we were town together.
VOTE: TChillWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I think a TChill wagon is a good way to get a better read on TChill (and others).
Generally speaking I think having several wagons go places in a day is good.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Is yourIn post 193, wilky wrote:Flavour Claim:
One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.rolemiller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I’ve been sick and haven’t been able to put much time in. On bottom of 13.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Easy to say after the fact.In post 634, Ouroboros wrote:I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.
I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Kaede: What's your impression of 431 and 435? I'll look through your iso to see if you said anything about them but wanted to also see what your current view is.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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We've played together very recently.In post 190, Tchill13 wrote:
Please don't use meta to read me. I remember playing with you a long time ago. I'm always adjusting my game.In post 157, davesaz wrote:I agree with all the hider discussion on this page. And TChill is not behaving the same way he did in previous games where we were town together.
VOTE: TChillWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Dave's brain has been turned to mush by a combination of a few days of being sick plus trying to figure out difficult software problems.In post 729, Impossibear wrote:
I'd like more from you, please.In post 715, davesaz wrote:
Easy to say after the fact.In post 634, Ouroboros wrote:I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.
I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.
ETL
I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Things are improving, and will be fine as long as the light at the end of the tunnel isn't another train.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I think RC's reads being volatile and the transitions not being easy to understand is playstyle.
That part isn't AI to me. We'll need to see flips to be able to tell whether this is a strongarm or not.
A D1 powerbus is easily in RC's range though, so a scum flip doesn't ensure he's town.
There are other meta tells that I can watch for, not seeing definitive things yet.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Yeah that timing is sketch as fuck.
VOTE: Ventriloquist
Tech question: how are you getting seconds in the post times?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Do you know the quest requirements and effects before you give it?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Want me to vote Wilky so you can get on there 3rd?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Or maybe not lolWanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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@hebichan
You're familiar with how hydras work?
It's very plain to me, one thinks you're possible scum and the other isn't sure.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Reminder...In post 836, davesaz wrote: A D1 powerbus is easily in RC's range though, so a scum flip doesn't ensure he's town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Who unvoted wilky? I was distracted by work.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I'm going to look for that too, if/when I get real time to do it.
Agree Wilky's info sounds correct and likely town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Not gonna happen.In post 1392, Ouroboros wrote: let's get the unvotes so you can get the third vote on Wilky and then we'll get the L-1 and then you can hammer them.
even if I'm wrong here you guys still completely failed to address the reasons that I've given to want this lynch.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Most likely case -- we're both town millers. In Wilky's case, the miller is a modifier not the actual role. If flavor is anything like the game, it's potentially a highly favorable role.
Less likely case -- it was a "safeclaim", which can be sorted later. The negative from mislynching that specific flavor right now far outweighs the positive if it's fake.
I'd be very much onboard with lynching tchill.
I owe analysis of Vent's posts, in particular the manufactured ones. I might get to that if I can escape the software bugs long enough.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Where did you get the idea that I'm "pushing" you?In post 1431, Ouroboros wrote:davesaz you're deluding yourself when you say that you have meta tells to read me on. I lynched scum, stop pushing me until way later in the game thanks.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand / misrepresent what Impossibear is trying to do?In post 1475, Ouroboros wrote:Note: no one in this game is going to vote ramcius.
if we're doing the thing we're doing it on wilky who is scum.
I feel like this game needs more angry RC since Impossibear have taken advantage of me trying to be polite this gamestate to shit all over the game and try to lock in mislynches.
As of tomorrow I'm going to start bringing out the big guns again but I give everyone the next 12 or so hours before I make my full case explaining why Impossibear isn't just stupid as fuck town, they're scum making the game as toxic as they have to in order to try to take away my leverage over the town and secure mislynches secure that when I get nightkilled not tonight but in two nights that no one will have the balls to go against them.
The existence of the role that swaps scum roles basically guarantees the existence of a godfather setup spec wise.
The plan is to L-1 someone (currently Ram) with Impossibear 3rd on that wagon, butnot lynch.
Then have Impossibear hammer whomever we actually do lynch.
There is nothing about that plan that implies Impossibear is trying to lynch Ram, nor that they're trying to force any particular lynch.
As for the plan, not sure why those specific people are being asked to vote on that wagon. I'd be happy to vote there and leave it for the purpose of quest fulfilment.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I'm getting really tired of reading all this personal back and forth.
Both of you are posting some correct and some incorrect things.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Heh, good thing I previewed my post.
I promised to iso Ventriloquist. His multipost is completely unrevealing if we assume the mason claim is true. Earlier iso reflects some possible associations with tchill.
Separate comment on tchill, hider is an awesome fakeclaim for a scum ascetic or commuter.
Question for gamefans: is there a main character that even makes sense as godfather?
Pedit2: Ah, so there is more convo on mason claims -- Vent multipost points squarely to trying to dissuade RC from bussing. Yes, I'm still paranoid. I've seen RC's attempted orchestrations twice from the inside.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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That took 4 pushes of the submit button. I'm gonna play some minecraft while the thread grows another couple pages lol.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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One of the reasons people like me get paranoid is that you don't let go. The most dangerous scum is the one that takes control (which you just got through saying). If you're town, you are making yourself the kind of town that people can't trust. Yeah, you were right about Vent but it proves nothing. You aren't conftown and I don't think you should act like you are. You have one voice and one vote, and if you get manipulative it's just natural for people to get worried about that. Be persuasive with evidence, not by comparing size, because size doesn't matter.In post 1811, Ouroboros wrote: But a lot of that unwillingness to let go is because I can never trust the game to townread me. If I could trust the game to townread me I'd be able to play mafia a lot differently.
Let's talk a couple reads. Wilky claimed a role (modifier?) and soft claimed a flavor which implies something that is potentially beneficial to town. With the understanding that safe/fake claims could exist, I'd be surprised if there isn't some kind of investigative for either role, flavor, or both, so why not let results sort the slot? Sure, I totally get that millers and lylo don't get along unless they're obvtowning, but tell me how this slot is a priority to push right now. I think it's more likely town than scum, and good town strategy also leans in the direction of letting it go for now.
The other one is Tchill. This one's a two parter for me. I can't see a good reason for a hider who isn't weak. Mechanically it takes a role which is resistant to being checked, and nerfs what little utility it has for finding scum. Such a role is functionally similar to a commuter or ascetic. As I said before, scum with one of those roles might fakeclaim hider -- because an unexplained no result is the one thing they must fear. The second part of this read is that I've played with tchill and this game looks a lot different than his towngame that I've seen. TBH I don't remember if I've seen him as scum. That's admittedly a weak reason to scumread someone, but I have a vibe there and I'd like to pursue it.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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You managed to have a whole conversation while I typed that one post lol.
Kaede, what do you think about Wilky's softclaimed flavor? Do you know the game enough (or have enough search skillz) to see what it might mean if he's town?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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We're days from endgame. If there are multiple potential scum and one of them is also a potential powerful town, why would it be better to lynch the potential town PRtoday?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I'd prefer not to just out the potential role that the flavor implies, but at least two people here know (ETL being the other). This is where you respect the knowledge of your fellow town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I don't even play the game BTW, but it was fairly easy to search.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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You're assuming that I won't lynch the other miller claim. You're not the only game solver in town.In post 1844, Ouroboros wrote:
And what happens when he's scum and ends up walking to endgame because I wasn't strong willed enough to nip this in the bud here? also HI ANKAMIUS!I'd prefer not to just out the potential role that the flavor implies, but at least two people here know (ETL being the other). This is where you respect the knowledge of your fellow town.
Meanwhile, how about tchill, care to explain why my scumread is wrong or somehow inferior to yours?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Oh, I understand it completely. The flavor overrides it. If we get results that make sense then good, if we don't then the flavor is fake too. (you know this by now but I'm a logic player not an emotion player, as long as nobody pushes my button -- fear is not a factor, anger is a distinct possibility and you want to run if it happens)In post 1851, Ouroboros wrote:if you don't understand my rationale for why GIF would have scum miller as a fakeclaim and why scum would claim it enough to be willing to vote them now, why should I expect you to understand it / be willing to vote them later?
I just posted it on the last page.What even IS your scumread on Tchill?
In other news, I've managed to get ahead of ETL's alt slips in postcount. But the string ends now along with the end of my relatively relaxed evening. 7 hours till wakeup.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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EBWOP a previous page, no idea how many posts snuck in...Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Yeah that's what the flavor should mean.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Eh, I can do VCA on the unnatural ones too. If anything, they'll help overall.In post 1906, Impossibear wrote:It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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@MOD: Can we get online times / confirmation that you'll do a VC when requested?
No offense but I dislike the "has to be in an official VC" aspect of the alledged quest. If that's even part of it, which I'm not asking you to confirm or deny.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I'd like to see your answer to this.In post 1922, projectmatt wrote:
yupIn post 1906, Impossibear wrote:It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.
who do you want to lynch the most? (disregarding the quest for a second)
In the spirit of fairness, mine is TChill. (should go without saying but jic you haven't been keeping up)Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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In post 2130, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
Oh really.In post 2118, OnTheMark wrote:
a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.In post 2116, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Maybe you need to read up on what "irony" means.
This qualifies as neither of those things.
The kill is not amusing, nor is it deliberately contrary to one’s expectation if he had not already seen the vig claim. The expectation at the front is one scum team one kill.
Now if he presupposes vig of which in the prior sentence and multiple times town doesn’t do, then and only then is it ironic.
I disagree that irony implies somethingIn post 2131, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:It's obvious the "How ironic" portion is referring to the "I'm 100% not the scum kill" part of MWNN's post, hence it was Kokichi's initial thought.deliberatelycontrary to expectations. Perhaps where it's a direct interaction between the doer and the seer, but the thing that is ironic is rarely deliberate in the 3rd person case.
I agree that it's extremely natural to make Kokichi's post in response to MWNN's post and the kill. Reading something into it is a stretch at best and an attempt to throw shade at worst.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I don't see this fixation on analyzing an apparently failed NK.
What is the point?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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If you're looking for primarily meta driven reasons I can't help with that. If you're looking for game reasons then perhaps.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Replacement dissonance!Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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That totally lines up with Hebichan's d1 read on me. And it lines up with my PR read on the slot.
It wouldn't affect the night's results given I don't have an action to begin with, but if town feels I must be removed given miller, I'd understand it. No mislynch is evergoodbut whatever is needed.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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In post 2236, Ouroboros wrote:It's not.
My scum play is more advanced than your rationale.
I've never ever been polciy/bop lynched as scum.Please stop with your incessant ego trip.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Actually lynching me gives you a town flip but it still doesn't clear Impossibear. Scum hitting the BP makes sense if they're actually a BP vig, but if they're scum claiming MWNN kill then it doesn't resolve anything.In post 2238, OnTheMark wrote:
Oh this isn’t regarding Miller.In post 2234, davesaz wrote:That totally lines up with Hebichan's d1 read on me. And it lines up with my PR read on the slot.
It wouldn't affect the night's results given I don't have an action to begin with, but if town feels I must be removed given miller, I'd understand it. No mislynch is evergoodbut whatever is needed.
I would want you unless town confirmed IC. You were blocked and we are missing a kill.
Doing this shows whether it is you who did the kill or if scum tried to shoot ETL.
I thought it was ETL because mod didn’t tell me about Dave.
I think we're both town and something else happened to the kill. Maybe scum also killed MWNN despite the "hey that's an obvious stupid move" you're hearing from other slots.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Eh, if we're both town then they are a BP. That's what I get for tacking on to a post that was done.In post 2250, davesaz wrote: I think we're both town and something else happened to the kill. Maybe scum also killed MWNN despite the "hey that's an obvious stupid move" you're hearing from other slots.
But the other point I was making in that post is still correct, my town flip doesn't clear Impossibear so that's a stupid reason to flip me. If you believe the BP and you believe they'd be targeted then you should look somewhere else because a RB is meaningless in that circumstance.
Hint: I'm town by meta regardless -- if you don't see me desperately trying to make a case on someone, I'm not desperate.
Let's not forget to finish the quest. Then whatever you want to do...Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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You never replied to me on whether you're interested in a meta answer, gamestate answer, or both...Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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VOTE: tchill
Now that the quest thing is out of the way I should be on a scumread so that y'all will know what to do when I flip town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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If the main behind on the mark is who some people have slipped it might be, I'd not be the slightest bit surprised by a black and white approach to the situation. This level of nuance does not come naturally to them.
Trust me that it's better to just do what you think is right with regard to lynching me or not. I don't like the situation but we're gonna get great material for reads from it, one way or the other. One thing I ask is, don't merely fight against it -- push your scumreads. Bad pushes / failures to push are still our best chance of catching scum, other than useful PR results. Town have to do their job properly so that scum stand out for not doing it.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Scum are most likely in the sheep by the way. Other than one possible WK the ones displaying some backbone are more likely town.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I suspect anyone who changed their mind on the basis of the result alone, especially having a claimed BP plus who knows how many other roles in play.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Actually I'm dead serious. My posting is obvtown and some of the people who focus solely on the result are likely to be scum. I'll be there to say told you so at the end.In post 2427, Kokichi Oma wrote:
No way in hell you think this as town. You are a Miller cc AND blocked. Anyone town would understand why you're the lynch today.In post 2423, davesaz wrote:I suspect anyone who changed their mind on the basis of the result alone, especially having a claimed BP plus who knows how many other roles in play.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Oh great, now instead of just RC being an egomaniac we have two of 'em.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I'll give reads, fear not. I've already given plenty of them if you're willing to actually read.In post 2476, projectmatt wrote:
who do you think we should lynch?In post 2475, davesaz wrote:Oh great, now instead of just RC being an egomaniac we have two of 'em.
Whether town will be smart enough to actually follow them is another question.
It's going on 11:30 and I have a 6am conference call. Don't get in too much of a rush.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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OnTheMark: Pop quiz
You RB someone tonight and there is no kill. Do youautomaticallylynch them tomorrow?
If your answer is yes, what is scum'soptimumstrategy for the rest of the game?Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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I think Kokichi Oma is scum trying to look town.MariaR wrote:Wilky Needs to die tomorrow
OTM Townish
Kaede Akamatsu Needs to be ignored
MariaR Town
Wraith Towny
Ramcius Scummy
Ankamius Town
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells) Town
Tchill13 Scum
Dunnstral Town
verylazy/Kokichi Oma Scummy
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle) Town
davesaz Towny
Alchemist21 Towny
Nero Cain/projectmatt Scummy
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE Prob poe scum
Still think tchill's hider is a fakeclaim to account for ascetic scum.
I don't agree that POE puts RMOJ in the scum category. The quest thing doesn't make sense from scum unless Impossibear is also scum and GF, which would make hella power for scum.
Disagree that Wilky needs to die. Claimed ability requires two nights on the same player to get a result and it makes sense with the claimed flavor.
Please explain more on projectmatt. That slot would be a future project for me, so far it seems rational but rational by itself is not AI.
Pedit: Youwillget a green flip which is strongly supported by all the people who have me as at least weak town. So tell me your plan in that event.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord- davesaz
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Actually we're in a 3-way with me (the likely to become IC if OTM has their way) pushing for TChill.
Wraith is someone I haven't tried to read closely yet. And I'm in favor of OTMs plan with respect to Ouroboros. Don't let RC have his way.Wanna play Minecraft with your ms friends? Check out the minecraft thread, or the channel on discord - davesaz
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