Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)


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Post Post #6 (isolation #0) » Sun May 06, 2018 5:46 am

Post by davesaz »

Hardclaim Miller.

VOTE: Ventriloquist
Because scum like to make people their puppets.
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Post Post #13 (isolation #1) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:12 am

Post by davesaz »

@hydrae: Signing your posts would be much appreciated.
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Post Post #28 (isolation #2) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:40 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 15, Ouroboros wrote:
@Dave
- Can you attest to this behavioral preference as something you do, regardless of alignment?
There are some who prefer not to hear self meta but since you asked might as well. I would say it's more accurately an aversion to gambits as any alignment.
Not claiming miller as town would be a gambit on hoping to not be investigated.
While we're on the subject of self meta and laying low, it is also true that I'm usually passive until I have a substantial lead to follow.
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Post Post #30 (isolation #3) » Sun May 06, 2018 6:44 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 29, MariaR wrote:
In post 27, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 25, MariaR wrote:
In post 24, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:I already claimed town, do you like voting town? Only scum votes town.
What no! I hate voting town so I'm not going to vote town you see? I will vote only the scum as the good towny I am. Unlike
you
But i claimed town and you're voting me!
:P
But you're voting me and I am also town so we have an issue!
SVS? :shifty:
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Post Post #59 (isolation #4) » Sun May 06, 2018 7:53 am

Post by davesaz »

Oh, is that a thing with GiF games?
I am willing to reveal flavor as requested, but would like to hear opinions on whether it's actually helpful and on whether the other miller claim should be required to do the same (presumably yes on first question implies absolutely yes on 2nd but that's just my opinion).
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Post Post #157 (isolation #5) » Mon May 07, 2018 4:44 am

Post by davesaz »

I agree with all the hider discussion on this page. And TChill is not behaving the same way he did in previous games where we were town together.
VOTE: TChill
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Post Post #188 (isolation #6) » Mon May 07, 2018 6:04 am

Post by davesaz »

I think a TChill wagon is a good way to get a better read on TChill (and others).
Generally speaking I think having several wagons go places in a day is good.
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Post Post #208 (isolation #7) » Mon May 07, 2018 9:09 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 193, wilky wrote:
Flavour Claim:


One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.
Is your
role
miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.
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Post Post #487 (isolation #8) » Tue May 08, 2018 9:06 pm

Post by davesaz »

I’ve been sick and haven’t been able to put much time in. On bottom of 13.
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Post Post #715 (isolation #9) » Wed May 09, 2018 5:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 634, Ouroboros wrote:I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.
Easy to say after the fact.
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Post Post #720 (isolation #10) » Thu May 10, 2018 4:17 am

Post by davesaz »

Kaede
: What's your impression of and ? I'll look through your iso to see if you said anything about them but wanted to also see what your current view is.
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Post Post #721 (isolation #11) » Thu May 10, 2018 4:20 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 190, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 157, davesaz wrote:I agree with all the hider discussion on this page. And TChill is not behaving the same way he did in previous games where we were town together.
VOTE: TChill
Please don't use meta to read me. I remember playing with you a long time ago. I'm always adjusting my game.
We've played together very recently.
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Post Post #805 (isolation #12) » Thu May 10, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 729, Impossibear wrote:
In post 715, davesaz wrote:
In post 634, Ouroboros wrote:I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.
Easy to say after the fact.
I'd like more from you, please.

ETL
Dave's brain has been turned to mush by a combination of a few days of being sick plus trying to figure out difficult software problems.
I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Things are improving, and will be fine as long as the light at the end of the tunnel isn't another train.
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Post Post #836 (isolation #13) » Thu May 10, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by davesaz »

I think RC's reads being volatile and the transitions not being easy to understand is playstyle.
That part isn't AI to me. We'll need to see flips to be able to tell whether this is a strongarm or not.
A D1 powerbus is easily in RC's range though, so a scum flip doesn't ensure he's town.
There are other meta tells that I can watch for, not seeing definitive things yet.
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Post Post #906 (isolation #14) » Thu May 10, 2018 7:21 pm

Post by davesaz »

Yeah that timing is sketch as fuck.
VOTE: Ventriloquist

Tech question: how are you getting seconds in the post times?
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Post Post #1051 (isolation #15) » Sun May 13, 2018 6:28 pm

Post by davesaz »

Do you know the quest requirements and effects before you give it?
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Post Post #1142 (isolation #16) » Mon May 14, 2018 8:17 am

Post by davesaz »

Want me to vote Wilky so you can get on there 3rd?
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Post Post #1144 (isolation #17) » Mon May 14, 2018 8:19 am

Post by davesaz »

Or maybe not lol
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Post Post #1151 (isolation #18) » Mon May 14, 2018 8:37 am

Post by davesaz »

@hebichan
You're familiar with how hydras work?
It's very plain to me, one thinks you're possible scum and the other isn't sure.
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Post Post #1156 (isolation #19) » Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 836, davesaz wrote: A D1 powerbus is easily in RC's range though, so a scum flip doesn't ensure he's town.
Reminder...
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Post Post #1204 (isolation #20) » Mon May 14, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by davesaz »

Who unvoted wilky? I was distracted by work.
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Post Post #1229 (isolation #21) » Tue May 15, 2018 8:43 am

Post by davesaz »

I'm going to look for that too, if/when I get real time to do it.

Agree Wilky's info sounds correct and likely town.
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Post Post #1417 (isolation #22) » Wed May 16, 2018 11:13 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1392, Ouroboros wrote: let's get the unvotes so you can get the third vote on Wilky and then we'll get the L-1 and then you can hammer them.
even if I'm wrong here you guys still completely failed to address the reasons that I've given to want this lynch.
Not gonna happen.
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Post Post #1418 (isolation #23) » Wed May 16, 2018 11:22 am

Post by davesaz »

Most likely case -- we're both town millers. In Wilky's case, the miller is a modifier not the actual role. If flavor is anything like the game, it's potentially a highly favorable role.

Less likely case -- it was a "safeclaim", which can be sorted later. The negative from mislynching that specific flavor right now far outweighs the positive if it's fake.

I'd be very much onboard with lynching tchill.
I owe analysis of Vent's posts, in particular the manufactured ones. I might get to that if I can escape the software bugs long enough.
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Post Post #1435 (isolation #24) » Thu May 17, 2018 6:03 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1431, Ouroboros wrote:davesaz you're deluding yourself when you say that you have meta tells to read me on. I lynched scum, stop pushing me until way later in the game thanks.
Where did you get the idea that I'm "pushing" you?
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Post Post #1477 (isolation #25) » Thu May 17, 2018 2:22 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1475, Ouroboros wrote:Note: no one in this game is going to vote ramcius.
if we're doing the thing we're doing it on wilky who is scum.
I feel like this game needs more angry RC since Impossibear have taken advantage of me trying to be polite this gamestate to shit all over the game and try to lock in mislynches.

As of tomorrow I'm going to start bringing out the big guns again but I give everyone the next 12 or so hours before I make my full case explaining why Impossibear isn't just stupid as fuck town, they're scum making the game as toxic as they have to in order to try to take away my leverage over the town and secure mislynches secure that when I get nightkilled not tonight but in two nights that no one will have the balls to go against them.

The existence of the role that swaps scum roles basically guarantees the existence of a godfather setup spec wise.
Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand / misrepresent what Impossibear is trying to do?

The plan is to L-1 someone (currently Ram) with Impossibear 3rd on that wagon, but
not lynch
.
Then have Impossibear hammer whomever we actually do lynch.
There is nothing about that plan that implies Impossibear is trying to lynch Ram, nor that they're trying to force any particular lynch.

As for the plan, not sure why those specific people are being asked to vote on that wagon. I'd be happy to vote there and leave it for the purpose of quest fulfilment.
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Post Post #1723 (isolation #26) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:01 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'm getting really tired of reading all this personal back and forth.
Both of you are posting some correct and some incorrect things.
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Post Post #1773 (isolation #27) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by davesaz »

Heh, good thing I previewed my post.
I promised to iso Ventriloquist. His multipost is completely unrevealing if we assume the mason claim is true. Earlier iso reflects some possible associations with tchill.

Separate comment on tchill, hider is an awesome fakeclaim for a scum ascetic or commuter.

Question for gamefans: is there a main character that even makes sense as godfather?

Pedit2: Ah, so there is more convo on mason claims -- Vent multipost points squarely to trying to dissuade RC from bussing. Yes, I'm still paranoid. I've seen RC's attempted orchestrations twice from the inside. :shifty:
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Post Post #1775 (isolation #28) » Thu May 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by davesaz »

That took 4 pushes of the submit button. I'm gonna play some minecraft while the thread grows another couple pages lol.
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Post Post #1829 (isolation #29) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:39 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1811, Ouroboros wrote: But a lot of that unwillingness to let go is because I can never trust the game to townread me. If I could trust the game to townread me I'd be able to play mafia a lot differently.
One of the reasons people like me get paranoid is that you don't let go. The most dangerous scum is the one that takes control (which you just got through saying). If you're town, you are making yourself the kind of town that people can't trust. Yeah, you were right about Vent but it proves nothing. You aren't conftown and I don't think you should act like you are. You have one voice and one vote, and if you get manipulative it's just natural for people to get worried about that. Be persuasive with evidence, not by comparing size, because size doesn't matter.

Let's talk a couple reads. Wilky claimed a role (modifier?) and soft claimed a flavor which implies something that is potentially beneficial to town. With the understanding that safe/fake claims could exist, I'd be surprised if there isn't some kind of investigative for either role, flavor, or both, so why not let results sort the slot? Sure, I totally get that millers and lylo don't get along unless they're obvtowning, but tell me how this slot is a priority to push right now. I think it's more likely town than scum, and good town strategy also leans in the direction of letting it go for now.

The other one is Tchill. This one's a two parter for me. I can't see a good reason for a hider who isn't weak. Mechanically it takes a role which is resistant to being checked, and nerfs what little utility it has for finding scum. Such a role is functionally similar to a commuter or ascetic. As I said before, scum with one of those roles might fakeclaim hider -- because an unexplained no result is the one thing they must fear. The second part of this read is that I've played with tchill and this game looks a lot different than his towngame that I've seen. TBH I don't remember if I've seen him as scum. That's admittedly a weak reason to scumread someone, but I have a vibe there and I'd like to pursue it.
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Post Post #1830 (isolation #30) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:40 pm

Post by davesaz »

You managed to have a whole conversation while I typed that one post lol.

Kaede, what do you think about Wilky's softclaimed flavor? Do you know the game enough (or have enough search skillz) to see what it might mean if he's town?
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Post Post #1837 (isolation #31) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:46 pm

Post by davesaz »

We're days from endgame. If there are multiple potential scum and one of them is also a potential powerful town, why would it be better to lynch the potential town PR
today
?
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Post Post #1840 (isolation #32) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:48 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'd prefer not to just out the potential role that the flavor implies, but at least two people here know (ETL being the other). This is where you respect the knowledge of your fellow town.
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Post Post #1842 (isolation #33) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:49 pm

Post by davesaz »

I don't even play the game BTW, but it was fairly easy to search.
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Post Post #1850 (isolation #34) » Thu May 17, 2018 7:54 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1844, Ouroboros wrote:
I'd prefer not to just out the potential role that the flavor implies, but at least two people here know (ETL being the other). This is where you respect the knowledge of your fellow town.
And what happens when he's scum and ends up walking to endgame because I wasn't strong willed enough to nip this in the bud here? also HI ANKAMIUS!
You're assuming that I won't lynch the other miller claim. You're not the only game solver in town. :roll:

Meanwhile, how about tchill, care to explain why my scumread is wrong or somehow inferior to yours?
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Post Post #1857 (isolation #35) » Thu May 17, 2018 8:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1851, Ouroboros wrote:if you don't understand my rationale for why GIF would have scum miller as a fakeclaim and why scum would claim it enough to be willing to vote them now, why should I expect you to understand it / be willing to vote them later?
Oh, I understand it completely. The flavor overrides it. If we get results that make sense then good, if we don't then the flavor is fake too. (you know this by now but I'm a logic player not an emotion player, as long as nobody pushes my button -- fear is not a factor, anger is a distinct possibility and you want to run if it happens)
What even IS your scumread on Tchill?
I just posted it on the last page.

In other news, I've managed to get ahead of ETL's alt slips in postcount. But the string ends now along with the end of my relatively relaxed evening. 7 hours till wakeup. :yawn:
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Post Post #1858 (isolation #36) » Thu May 17, 2018 8:07 pm

Post by davesaz »

EBWOP a previous page, no idea how many posts snuck in...
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Post Post #1875 (isolation #37) » Fri May 18, 2018 4:17 am

Post by davesaz »

Yeah that's what the flavor should mean.
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Post Post #1918 (isolation #38) » Fri May 18, 2018 6:45 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 1906, Impossibear wrote:It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons :( VCA is one of my strong points.
Eh, I can do VCA on the unnatural ones too. If anything, they'll help overall.
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Post Post #1923 (isolation #39) » Fri May 18, 2018 1:19 pm

Post by davesaz »

@MOD: Can we get online times / confirmation that you'll do a VC when requested?

No offense but I dislike the "has to be in an official VC" aspect of the alledged quest. If that's even part of it, which I'm not asking you to confirm or deny. ;)
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Post Post #1924 (isolation #40) » Fri May 18, 2018 1:21 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 1922, projectmatt wrote:
In post 1906, Impossibear wrote:It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons :( VCA is one of my strong points.
yup

who do you want to lynch the most? (disregarding the quest for a second)
I'd like to see your answer to this.
In the spirit of fairness, mine is TChill. (should go without saying but jic you haven't been keeping up)
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Post Post #2181 (isolation #41) » Sun May 20, 2018 8:08 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2130, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 2118, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 2116, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Maybe you need to read up on what "irony" means.
a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.

This qualifies as neither of those things.
The kill is not amusing, nor is it deliberately contrary to one’s expectation if he had not already seen the vig claim. The expectation at the front is one scum team one kill.
Now if he presupposes vig of which in the prior sentence and multiple times town doesn’t do, then and only then is it ironic.
Oh really.
In post 1009, ManWithNoName wrote:
I'm like 100% not the Scum kill
, I would assume.
In post 1286, Kokichi Oma wrote:
How ironic.
Unless a vig shot this?
In post 2131, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:It's obvious the "How ironic" portion is referring to the "I'm 100% not the scum kill" part of MWNN's post, hence it was Kokichi's initial thought.
I disagree that irony implies something
deliberately
contrary to expectations. Perhaps where it's a direct interaction between the doer and the seer, but the thing that is ironic is rarely deliberate in the 3rd person case.

I agree that it's extremely natural to make Kokichi's post in response to MWNN's post and the kill. Reading something into it is a stretch at best and an attempt to throw shade at worst.
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Post Post #2182 (isolation #42) » Sun May 20, 2018 8:20 am

Post by davesaz »

I don't see this fixation on analyzing an apparently failed NK.
What is the point?
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Post Post #2186 (isolation #43) » Sun May 20, 2018 8:43 am

Post by davesaz »

If you're looking for primarily meta driven reasons I can't help with that. If you're looking for game reasons then perhaps.
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Post Post #2198 (isolation #44) » Sun May 20, 2018 10:07 am

Post by davesaz »

Replacement dissonance! :lol:
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Post Post #2234 (isolation #45) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:11 am

Post by davesaz »

That totally lines up with Hebichan's d1 read on me. And it lines up with my PR read on the slot.

It wouldn't affect the night's results given I don't have an action to begin with, but if town feels I must be removed given miller, I'd understand it. No mislynch is ever
good
but whatever is needed.
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Post Post #2237 (isolation #46) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:12 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2236, Ouroboros wrote:It's not.

My scum play is more advanced than your rationale.

I've never ever been polciy/bop lynched as scum.
Please stop with your incessant ego trip.
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Post Post #2250 (isolation #47) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:20 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2238, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 2234, davesaz wrote:That totally lines up with Hebichan's d1 read on me. And it lines up with my PR read on the slot.

It wouldn't affect the night's results given I don't have an action to begin with, but if town feels I must be removed given miller, I'd understand it. No mislynch is ever
good
but whatever is needed.
Oh this isn’t regarding Miller.

I would want you unless town confirmed IC. You were blocked and we are missing a kill.

Doing this shows whether it is you who did the kill or if scum tried to shoot ETL.

I thought it was ETL because mod didn’t tell me about Dave.
Actually lynching me gives you a town flip but it still doesn't clear Impossibear. Scum hitting the BP makes sense if they're actually a BP vig, but if they're scum claiming MWNN kill then it doesn't resolve anything.

I think we're both town and something else happened to the kill. Maybe scum also killed MWNN despite the "hey that's an obvious stupid move" you're hearing from other slots.
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Post Post #2269 (isolation #48) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:30 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2250, davesaz wrote: I think we're both town and something else happened to the kill. Maybe scum also killed MWNN despite the "hey that's an obvious stupid move" you're hearing from other slots.
Eh, if we're both town then they are a BP. That's what I get for tacking on to a post that was done. :facepalm:

But the other point I was making in that post is still correct, my town flip doesn't clear Impossibear so that's a stupid reason to flip me. If you believe the BP and you believe they'd be targeted then you should look somewhere else because a RB is meaningless in that circumstance.

Hint: I'm town by meta regardless -- if you don't see me desperately trying to make a case on someone, I'm not desperate.
Let's not forget to finish the quest. Then whatever you want to do...
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Post Post #2273 (isolation #49) » Sun May 20, 2018 11:42 am

Post by davesaz »

You never replied to me on whether you're interested in a meta answer, gamestate answer, or both...
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Post Post #2309 (isolation #50) » Sun May 20, 2018 1:56 pm

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: tchill
Now that the quest thing is out of the way I should be on a scumread so that y'all will know what to do when I flip town.
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Post Post #2407 (isolation #51) » Sun May 20, 2018 6:17 pm

Post by davesaz »

If the main behind on the mark is who some people have slipped it might be, I'd not be the slightest bit surprised by a black and white approach to the situation. This level of nuance does not come naturally to them.

Trust me that it's better to just do what you think is right with regard to lynching me or not. I don't like the situation but we're gonna get great material for reads from it, one way or the other. One thing I ask is, don't merely fight against it -- push your scumreads. Bad pushes / failures to push are still our best chance of catching scum, other than useful PR results. Town have to do their job properly so that scum stand out for not doing it.
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Post Post #2411 (isolation #52) » Sun May 20, 2018 6:20 pm

Post by davesaz »

Scum are most likely in the sheep by the way. Other than one possible WK the ones displaying some backbone are more likely town.
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Post Post #2423 (isolation #53) » Sun May 20, 2018 6:32 pm

Post by davesaz »

I suspect anyone who changed their mind on the basis of the result alone, especially having a claimed BP plus who knows how many other roles in play.
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Post Post #2443 (isolation #54) » Sun May 20, 2018 6:50 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2427, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 2423, davesaz wrote:I suspect anyone who changed their mind on the basis of the result alone, especially having a claimed BP plus who knows how many other roles in play.
No way in hell you think this as town. You are a Miller cc AND blocked. Anyone town would understand why you're the lynch today.
Actually I'm dead serious. My posting is obvtown and some of the people who focus solely on the result are likely to be scum. I'll be there to say told you so at the end.
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Post Post #2475 (isolation #55) » Sun May 20, 2018 7:16 pm

Post by davesaz »

Oh great, now instead of just RC being an egomaniac we have two of 'em. :facepalm:
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Post Post #2488 (isolation #56) » Sun May 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2476, projectmatt wrote:
In post 2475, davesaz wrote:Oh great, now instead of just RC being an egomaniac we have two of 'em. :facepalm:
who do you think we should lynch?
I'll give reads, fear not. I've already given plenty of them if you're willing to actually read.
Whether town will be smart enough to actually follow them is another question.
It's going on 11:30 and I have a 6am conference call. Don't get in too much of a rush.
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Post Post #2492 (isolation #57) » Sun May 20, 2018 7:30 pm

Post by davesaz »

OnTheMark: Pop quiz
You RB someone tonight and there is no kill. Do you
automatically
lynch them tomorrow?
If your answer is yes, what is scum's
optimum
strategy for the rest of the game?
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Post Post #2574 (isolation #58) » Mon May 21, 2018 4:47 am

Post by davesaz »

MariaR wrote:Wilky Needs to die tomorrow
OTM Townish
Kaede Akamatsu Needs to be ignored
MariaR Town
Wraith Towny
Ramcius Scummy
Ankamius Town
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells) Town
Tchill13 Scum
Dunnstral Town
verylazy/Kokichi Oma Scummy
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle) Town
davesaz Towny
Alchemist21 Towny
Nero Cain/projectmatt Scummy
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE Prob poe scum
I think Kokichi Oma is scum trying to look town.
Still think tchill's hider is a fakeclaim to account for ascetic scum.
I don't agree that POE puts RMOJ in the scum category. The quest thing doesn't make sense from scum unless Impossibear is also scum and GF, which would make hella power for scum.
Disagree that Wilky needs to die. Claimed ability requires two nights on the same player to get a result and it makes sense with the claimed flavor.

Please explain more on projectmatt. That slot would be a future project for me, so far it seems rational but rational by itself is not AI.

Pedit: You
will
get a green flip which is strongly supported by all the people who have me as at least weak town. So tell me your plan in that event.
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Post Post #2580 (isolation #59) » Mon May 21, 2018 4:53 am

Post by davesaz »

Actually we're in a 3-way with me (the likely to become IC if OTM has their way) pushing for TChill.
Wraith is someone I haven't tried to read closely yet. And I'm in favor of OTMs plan with respect to Ouroboros. Don't let RC have his way.
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Post Post #2705 (isolation #60) » Mon May 21, 2018 7:34 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2658, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 2653, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 2651, Kokichi Oma wrote:Why not lynch dave and vig wraith? Everyone happy
I am okay with this if Dave flips town.

If Dave flips scum please vig RC.
Can everyone agree to this
How about Dave is town and doesn't flip at all. ;)
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Post Post #2706 (isolation #61) » Mon May 21, 2018 7:37 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2697, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 2695, Impossibear wrote:Wraith is a good shot regardless though
Explain?

RC hasn't informed me of why he scum reads Wraith.

Ghost
I don't think RC has informed
anyone
of why he scum reads Wraith.
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Post Post #2869 (isolation #62) » Mon May 21, 2018 10:59 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2792, Wraith wrote:Yeah Dunn I tend to get disengaged from being proactive when I'm constantly scumread by everyone for literally no reason.

This is absurd, just mercy kill me so my presence is no longer poisoning the efforts to catch avtual scum
Nice ATE. Compare to me, acting like I'm now an unconfirmed IC. Which I am if y'all insist on lynching me.
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Post Post #2871 (isolation #63) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:01 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2795, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 2790, Ouroboros wrote:
In post 2786, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 2779, Wraith wrote:Okay lynch me and then stop fucking listening to RC

Deal?

This will be a win-win since I won't have to bother catching up.
This post makes me second-guess though
yeah it made me second guess as well
Okay so you’re second guessing.

Is there anyone you’re willing to bet your life on is scum that is not Dave?

Because I am literally betting mine Dave is.
I don't get it, my town flip is bad for the game but don't see how it impacts you.
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Post Post #2878 (isolation #64) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:09 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2804, Impossibear wrote: Dave
Wraith
Tchill
Dunn
Maria
Me: Obviously not. :lol:
Wraith: NO strong feelings, would really like to see some concrete reasons this is scum because I'd probably be willing to sheep and/or look it up myself.
Tchill: Yes, mechanically the claim is fake AF and I have a strong scum meta read here.
Dunn: One of the people I'm basically unable to read at all.
Maria: I have past experience that leads me to believe I would be able to recognize scumtells from her. Haven't seen them, which does not mean she's town. Under observation.
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Post Post #2884 (isolation #65) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:20 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2840, OnTheMark wrote:Then tell me where I am wrong.

Which of Dave/ETL/Wraith are town and why? << Note the last part. I know you’re going to say you’re town.

Also please answer if you think I am good/decent scum. I am trying to make a point so you can see what I am saying and going slowly.
Town, town, don't know. (If RC hydra is the 4th, town by a smaller margin than ETL)

I felt very uneasy in the game we were scum together because I thought you took way too many risks and created too many associations. I also got culted that game (if we're thinking of the same one) which heavily modified the 2nd half of my participation. My personal though is you're not "bad" at scum, but perhaps not good either.
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Post Post #2886 (isolation #66) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:25 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 2846, Impossibear wrote:
In post 2835, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:OTM is without a doubt town.
Different reasoning, same conclusion.

OTM doesn't rush to fill the thread with reads if they believe they're getting modkilled. OTM believed they were being modkilled. Thus, OTM is town.
Scum OTM doesn't go to the mat with town me unless they think my role is more than what I claimed. Knowing that I never fakeclaim makes that very unlikely.

As town, OTM the person is going to go for the black and white situation over the grey one every time. If presented with that kind of situation as scum I think the reaction would be unrecognizable as logic. (no offense intended, just being honest)
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Post Post #2888 (isolation #67) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:33 am

Post by davesaz »

Wow, mildly unbelievable that I'm caught up.
So ETL posted a wraith case? OK.
IOU projectmatt read. Nero is one of those people who I don't trust myself to read, it's well past time I remedied ignoring the slot.
At present the best candidate for scum on my wagon is Kokichi Oma. I do not see any genuine scumhunting there.
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Post Post #2889 (isolation #68) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:36 am

Post by davesaz »

Ank, Ram, and alchemist need my attention too.
I appreciate that several townies have decided that rushing to martyr me is a bad idea. A couple days to work on these reads would be nice, please and thanks.
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Post Post #2898 (isolation #69) » Mon May 21, 2018 11:51 am

Post by davesaz »

@OTM: I don't keep stats and therefore have no idea about any of that. But I should have anticipated that you would focus more on the 2nd clause of what I said over the 1st. Not bad...
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Post Post #2909 (isolation #70) » Mon May 21, 2018 12:36 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2899, OnTheMark wrote:Now under the premise that I am good or at least competent scum, I would know how you typically play. You said so yourself in the argument about my scum game. As scum especially when making a risky maneuver you let other people push wagons and take the limelight. Especially one you aren’t sure is gonna pan out.
Sorry, I've stepped in front of your question. :oops: I'm not the person doubting your alignment that you wanted to talk with.
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Post Post #2914 (isolation #71) » Mon May 21, 2018 1:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

^ LAMIST ^
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Post Post #2918 (isolation #72) » Mon May 21, 2018 2:16 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2916, projectmatt wrote:did you just try to discredit kokichi as being "LAMIST" solely for saying they want to lynch you, dave?
The broken record style there makes me think exactly that.
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Post Post #2936 (isolation #73) » Mon May 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2930, OnTheMark wrote: The flavor that matches this is Virgil
Congrats, you can read a wiki. Now there are at least 3 of us who know how to find someone's flavor given a crumb or two.
The rest of it is baseless and wrong, just like your assumption that a block is the likely reason there might be too few kills.
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Post Post #2940 (isolation #74) » Mon May 21, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by davesaz »

Except I have no other abilities so you're wrong. :lol:
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Post Post #2941 (isolation #75) » Mon May 21, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

Quit hydra slipping, I want my PC to be higher than yours. :P
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Post Post #2945 (isolation #76) » Mon May 21, 2018 3:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

What I said is most likely to be scum on my wagon.
Not most likely to be scum.
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Post Post #2949 (isolation #77) » Mon May 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2944, projectmatt wrote:I LOVE MECHANICS
I love being alive to solve games via mechanics.
It's literally my thing. If all town in a mechanics heavy game who give information to me give correct information (and preferably full at some point) scum need to be lucky to have any hope.
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Post Post #2952 (isolation #78) » Mon May 21, 2018 3:09 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2947, projectmatt wrote:
davesaz wrote:What I said is most likely to be scum on my wagon.
Not most likely to be scum.
alright, but that doesn't really answer the question. also, who is your top scum read if it isn't kokichi?
I have made this perfectly clear. Tchill is my top scum read.
Kokichi is "me too"ing my lynch without adding any further information, and doing no scum hunting otherwise. This is an opinion, my opinion, and I'm not kidding about it.
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Post Post #2980 (isolation #79) » Mon May 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Post by davesaz »

realman isn't cop, the first quest just worked out that way.
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Post Post #2981 (isolation #80) » Mon May 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

I have seen a game where one scum was saddled with apparently protown abilities. Checking history.
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Post Post #2986 (isolation #81) » Mon May 21, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2980, davesaz wrote:realman isn't cop, the first quest just worked out that way.
EBWOP - the quest, we don't know if the remaining abilities are quests, or if they exist.

The role I was thinking about was a scum dreaming god, in Alisae's TM game. I have very little knowledge of GIF mod meta.
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Post Post #2987 (isolation #82) » Mon May 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 2985, Kokichi Oma wrote:what is up with these weird claims. I'm just going to assume the day cop is a meme.
Add not paying attention to events to the things I don't like about this slot.
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Post Post #3157 (isolation #83) » Tue May 22, 2018 10:47 am

Post by davesaz »

4 pages behind and it's been a nonstop day of work. Bottom of 123.
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Post Post #3226 (isolation #84) » Tue May 22, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 3193, Impossibear wrote:Dave doesn't get to live until LYLO unless ridiculous shenanigans
prove
him to be town. But he doesn't need to be lynched TODAY. He needs to be lynched AT SOME POINT.
If I stay in it long enough, and there is enough info, there won't be a LYLO. Game will end first.
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Post Post #3228 (isolation #85) » Tue May 22, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 3223, OnTheMark wrote:It’s textbook RC scum.

Ever since I tried to say anything he’s all “I am gonna take over the game”

And since then he hasn’t done a damn thing with it.

I have to go again but I am pretty sure RC is scum
If RC is scum, you can trust me to nail him. He's nowhere near lock town for me. This is not the whole "ooh everyone scumreads me because I'm so good at it" bullshit that he's been spewing. He isn't lock scum either, but the pattern of the game is a possible match for scum and all the bluster and/or smooth talk in the world isn't going to hide it. He's even trying to butter me up possibly because he thinks he can talk me out of it. (I am admittedly a sucker for townreads, but I'm getting better at that lol)

You're worried about the one who got away, and I totally understand that. It's the same reason you want the circumstantial (wrong, but credible) case on me to stick.
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Post Post #3231 (isolation #86) » Tue May 22, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by davesaz »

Ooh, didn't expect that shot to even land, much less bullseye.
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Post Post #3237 (isolation #87) » Tue May 22, 2018 2:48 pm

Post by davesaz »

Reading comprehension in a thing, you should try it occasionally.

If // possibly all through that post.
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Post Post #3616 (isolation #88) » Thu May 24, 2018 5:40 am

Post by davesaz »

It’s an extremely busy day. I was about page 131 reading? Going to skip some since it’s likely more recent is more important. Tell me if there is anything in the between pages of note.
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Post Post #3839 (isolation #89) » Sun May 27, 2018 5:32 am

Post by davesaz »

@OTM: read the Ourobos flip role card. It will explain how Maria (and probably another person) have a group track.

I agree that Jungle needs to be here first.

Any reason the Wraith wagon isn't getting scrutiny yet? (I have a reason, family hasn't allowed me enough time to dig into it).

wilky, do you get confirmation the first night that your role is activated?
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Post Post #3899 (isolation #90) » Sun May 27, 2018 8:50 am

Post by davesaz »

That group track thing can also be used as a tracker.
Makes perfect sense to me to track someone who might be scum.
I'm not sure why that's even a question.
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Post Post #3903 (isolation #91) » Sun May 27, 2018 3:57 pm

Post by davesaz »

Whatever. Go ahead and second guess the dead guy's decisions all you want.
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Post Post #3979 (isolation #92) » Tue May 29, 2018 5:54 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3967, Impossibear wrote: 5) Dave's reaction to OTM wanting to lynch him all D2.
It's called town thinking that this game is lost if someone doesn't pull their head out of their ass.
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Post Post #3984 (isolation #93) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:05 am

Post by davesaz »

Have you noticed my Minecraft tendency to avoid dying at all costs? I'm the guy who doesn't go to the nether before I have flight of some kind if it can be helped.
Extend that to mafia. I may pay lip service to being lynched for the common good (and did in this case btw), but rolling over is not in my nature.
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Post Post #3991 (isolation #94) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:21 am

Post by davesaz »

Oh good, Ank answered so I can weigh in without tainting the results.

1. Regarding the track target, I gave my opinion on the relative value of sorting the neighbor vs. sorting someone else. You hood someone you think is town and try to catch scum outside the hood. If you get a "went nowhere" on someone who did visit then you get an unexpected bonus guilty but it should not be the first goal. Does RC/Anony see it the same way? I don't know...

2. The role feels like a possible scum dreaming god. I initially thought it was town but not so much. If I read Jungle's ISO it's mostly meaningless drivel. For me a lynch there would not be policy.

3. OTM is most likely town and his tunnel is OTM-indicative but otherwise NAI.

4. The only reason scum miller claims is if they expect a town rolecop. The slow cop claim could be fake to avoid getting policy lynched but if it were a fake claim then why not just go ahead and claim an inno?
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Post Post #4004 (isolation #95) » Tue May 29, 2018 6:49 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 3997, Impossibear wrote:
In post 3991, davesaz wrote:4. The only reason scum miller claims is if they expect a town rolecop. The slow cop claim could be fake to avoid getting policy lynched but if it were a fake claim then why not just go ahead and claim an inno?
So are you saying you think wilky is town, then?

ETL

p-edit: ????????? Maria isn't in a hood with dunn. Then who???
Weak town, but yes.
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Post Post #4015 (isolation #96) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:11 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4013, Impossibear wrote:
In post 4009, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Kokichi's 100% town.
punreader nfi
Why is kokichi 100% town? Did I miss something major there?
I agree with the question. I have Kokichi at something like 90% scum.
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Post Post #4085 (isolation #97) » Tue May 29, 2018 9:26 am

Post by davesaz »

Jungle can be scum in a world where the quests are not really protown things at all. We only have his word that it was even a daycop in the first place.
If we ignore the quests and go
strictly
by play, how do you read Jungle?
I'm not sure TBH. It's painful to read.
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Post Post #4111 (isolation #98) » Tue May 29, 2018 7:53 pm

Post by davesaz »

Who is evil Titus?
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Post Post #4127 (isolation #99) » Wed May 30, 2018 7:54 pm

Post by davesaz »

Gonna follow my gut on setup. Reasons previously stated and I haven't seen anything to change them.

VOTE: REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
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Post Post #4146 (isolation #100) » Thu May 31, 2018 7:15 am

Post by davesaz »

lol at ETL hydra slipping in both directions, on main here and hydra in the minecraft thread.
On topic, I don't really oppose a projectmatt wagon but prefer the composition of the jungle (going by memory, i'm in a hurry atm)
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Post Post #4175 (isolation #101) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4167, Punreader wrote:
davesaz:
When I started reading, I had foreknowledge that davesaz's miller claim was
apparently retracted/changed into 'some negative utility'
at a later point.
The underlined is incorrect.
I stated that I'm miller. At a later point I said that my "ability" section had flavor in it. There has never been a retraction / change about the role -- it's straight Commonwealth miller with nothing else, and nothing but the flavor in the ability section.
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Post Post #4176 (isolation #102) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:08 am

Post by davesaz »

Regarding Jungle:

Punreader's analysis assumes a: that scum!Jungle wouldn't gambit, b: that town would inevitably lynch scum!Jungle after these events making it a low chance of success.

I don't know who Jungle is and make it a policy not to dig. If someone wants to play as an alt and has the discipline to stay in character, more power to them. So I don't know if a gambit is likely or unlikely, I just know it can't be ruled out. The PLAN might have been for Impossibear to die, and scum!Jungle is then functionally a loud fruit vendor at very little risk. Not claiming it loses the possibility of using it at all. So claiming an outlandish quest might be a gambit to salvage the role's usefulness.

Having a competent mod design a quest with that degree of complexity and then allowing it to fail on a technicality when the intent was clear stretches credibility a little. I suppose a mod could be that hardcore and town!Jungle could make that mistake, but it seems very unlikely.

Moving on to the question of whether town would inevitably punish scum!Jungle with a lynch -- it seems that WIFOM might be king here and we might not do so simply on the "mistake".
But that is very short sighted, to excuse it as human error and not a possible gambit. If we look at Jungle
outside the quest info
, what would the read be? I maintain that the read should be scum based on the evidence.
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Post Post #4178 (isolation #103) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:16 am

Post by davesaz »

I've mentioned this before in other games, but I haven't been keeping solid track on who I've seen as scum and who I haven't. So I don't know if I have seen Nero lurk as scum.
I can say conclusively that the argumentative and pushy Nero that I've seen as town was not present in this game. And Projectmatt's posting hasn't struck me as town.

I would be willing to accept a Projectmatt lynch if necessary, but would prefer that we resolve Jungle. If we allow scum!Jungle to push another fruitless outlandish quest on town it might damage us beyond repair. Am I wrong to think it's within the mod's range to include something tantalizing as a way to punish a greedy town? In the unlikely event Jungle is really town, it would be bad to lose the potential upside, but I can't see the game being designed so that town needs the quest to win. Furthermore if Jungle is town and the quest is powerful, why would scum leave the quest giver alive?
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Post Post #4180 (isolation #104) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:42 am

Post by davesaz »

Regarding Maria, I know we can count on RC to have invited another member to the neighborhood. We can hope that at least one of them is town. If the neighborhood generates a track result on someone who visits, it yields two conf or a town/scum dipole. I think we wait on her to see what results there are, if any.
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Post Post #4184 (isolation #105) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:54 am

Post by davesaz »

I know you're IC and all, but nice job on Wraith there. I never did get the explanation that I wanted on that.
IC's wanting to lynch obvtown is sadly a thing.
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Post Post #4185 (isolation #106) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:55 am

Post by davesaz »

Above comment is in reference to .
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Post Post #4195 (isolation #107) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:27 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4191, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 4189, OnTheMark wrote:You were testing him pending confirmation of the quest.

So now you’re just gonna test him again?
I was, but now I townread the slot, regardless of quest or not.
Can you give us some analysis of Jungle quotes that are not quest related, to show why? I'm very open to listening to evidence.
My issue is with assuming someone can't be scum merely because their actions would be "bad". That's the kind of thing that scum exploit all the time.
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Post Post #4220 (isolation #108) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:12 am

Post by davesaz »

@Kaede -- quote anything from Jungle that doesn't involve the quest that is obviously town. Anything that is making the slightest effort to solve the game.
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Post Post #4263 (isolation #109) » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:52 pm

Post by davesaz »

Punreader, I’m town and we disagree. I happen to think you’re town too.
Not lynching scum Jungle is likely worse than lynching town Jungle.
I’m very concerned that scum Jungle could play a fruit vendor all the way to endgame. How many broken quests would it take?
Sometimes ruling out the unlikely case is necessary. If logical answers always worked town win rates would be higher.
Scum lie and because they lie sometimes the unlikely answer is the correct one.

I already said I agree with a projectmatt lynch, if that is where consensus lies.
I see two scum being wagoned and that’s good imo.
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Post Post #4308 (isolation #110) » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:59 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4289, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 4287, OnTheMark wrote:If he figured out ETL was a town player why Day cop him? This seems rather odd and in contradiction to all of Jungle’s previous posts.
You do realize that quest was a public daycop right?
The quest was reported by Jungle to be a public daycop but never confirmed in any other way.
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Post Post #4354 (isolation #111) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by davesaz »

Maybe it's time for OTM to claim a specific modifier, if he hasn't done so already.
It is patently false that there cannot be a role which is immune to redirection, but I don't want to tip off anything and taint things.
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Post Post #4371 (isolation #112) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:04 pm

Post by davesaz »

While it's interesting, what makes it relevant?
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Post Post #4373 (isolation #113) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:00 pm

Post by davesaz »

Why is this conversation relevant?
I don't think that is a vague question at all.
I don't see any of this helping to determine anyone's alignment.
So I'm asking what is it that I don't understand.
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Post Post #4379 (isolation #114) » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:34 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4375, OnTheMark wrote:
In post 4373, davesaz wrote:Why is this conversation relevant?
I don't think that is a vague question at all.
I don't see any of this helping to determine anyone's alignment.
So I'm asking what is it that I don't understand.
Wilky said he was blocked.

I am and have been saying Wilky is lying.

People keep saying I could be redirected or bus driven or something and the answer is no.
Wilky said his action failed. He assumed it was your block, and apparently other people assumed that too.
This falls into the same logic hole that your block on me falls into -- it assumes there is only one possible reason for the result.

You not blocking Wilky does not imply that Wilky's action wasn't interfered with. It
could
mean he's lying about being interfered with but it doesn't
prove
it.
Wilky's action being interfered with does not imply your block caused it. It
could
mean you're lying about your target, but it doesn't
prove
it.
I think you're both probably telling the truth here, and some other reason exists for the action to fail. A redirect on Wilky or a busdrive on his target one night or the other for example.
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Post Post #4440 (isolation #115) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:39 am

Post by davesaz »

If one of the neighbors is scum, they kill the other to avoid getting outed. This is bad but not insurmountable as long as vig doesn't get too trigger happy.
If both of the neighbors is town and the 2nd one is outed, scum kills one of them and then tries to frame the remaining one as a natural result of point 1.
If both neighbors live till tomorrow, then they can out their result.
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Post Post #4443 (isolation #116) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:03 am

Post by davesaz »

Maybe I'm the townie who expects to get killed.
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Post Post #4451 (isolation #117) » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:31 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4448, Punreader wrote:This is everything I brought up against davesaz.

He has answered but a small fraction of them.
The things that you think are low probability are things that I think are high probability because they would be low probability
if there were no liars or curveballs
. Mafia is a game of liars and curveballs, in which ordinarily low probability things are the most likely.

I just got finished with a game in which 2 of the scum were the most universally townread people in the game.
Why did scum win that one?
Because we all thought they were low probability.


This is my full and complete answer on why we disagree. Kindly stop trying to make it seem like I'm dodging.
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Post Post #4471 (isolation #118) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:40 am

Post by davesaz »

Don't be stupid, if you mislynch me you lost the opportunity to mechanically determine Maria.
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Post Post #4473 (isolation #119) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:42 am

Post by davesaz »

You're on the wrong account, and I've been awake for maybe 10 minutes?
But I'm not sure why you think it isn't like me.
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Post Post #4475 (isolation #120) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:23 am

Post by davesaz »

Ah, that makes sense, you haven't seen me get seriously upset.
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Post Post #4476 (isolation #121) » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:24 am

Post by davesaz »

Most of the time I couldn't get a pagetop if I tried. :lol:
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Post Post #4515 (isolation #122) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:38 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4512, Punreader wrote:This comes from the first 20 pages. davesaz claimed miller; wilky counterclaimed miller. wilky was able to provide flavor, justification, and had more to his role; davesaz was dodgy and elusive at providing any details behind his role. I thought that was null because if he retracted/altered the claim later, that'd explain the behavior just as well. Him having maintained the claim offers him no such justification.
I have claimed a paraphrase of exactly what is in my PM.
Oh? And where do you draw the line on WIFOM? Everything could be WIFOM. So what WIFOM is 'valid' to you, and what WIFOM is 'invalid' to you? You can call anything WIFOM and I can demonstrate this quite easily if you doubt me. So what makes the possibility here be WIFOM to you worth invoking that name?
The point I am making here is that if nothing can be ruled out, where do you draw the line?

Is Impossibear a pun vig? That is a possibility; by your logic, davesaz, we should be suspecting that.
[/quote]
It would be more accurate to state that Impossibear could be scum claiming to be vig. By their play they are town. Jungle is not town by play.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4176, davesaz wrote:The PLAN might have been for Impossibear to die, and scum!Jungle is then functionally a loud fruit vendor at very little risk.
When did JUNGLE claim the power? Was it on D1? This is something I don't know.

So feel free to correct me here, if JUNGLE announced his power on D1.

If JUNGLE didn't claim the power until D2, then this scenario you are outlining is impossible. The plan going awry? Well then JUNGLE simply has no need to claim the action.
You never responded to this.
Let me lay it out in steps for people who can't follow simple logic.
Scum Jungle has a fruit vendor.
Jungle targets Impossibear
expecting Impossibear to die and planning to claim the loud on D2

Impossibear dies.
Now Jungle cannot target someone else N2 to claim it on D3, without claiming
something
on D2.
Jungle makes up a complicated quest to explain the fruit vendor. Impossibear says they have not been told what the quest does. Wild goose chase ensues.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4176, davesaz wrote:Not claiming it loses the possibility of using it at all.
Yes, and if the power is pro-town and JUNGLE is pun...why is this a bad thing for the pun?
You never responded to this.
I am asserting that there is no power, it's merely a loud fruit vendor.
Even if it is a pro-town power with Jungle as scum, it is bad for town to lynch town today instead of scum Jungle.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4176, davesaz wrote:Having a competent mod design a quest with that degree of complexity and then allowing it to fail on a technicality when the intent was clear stretches credibility a little.
Counterpoint: this is a game moderated by GuyInFreezer. I know his modding well enough to know this is
precisely
the sort of stunt he would pull.
You never argued with this.
My argument is that GiF is the type of mod who would give us a scum fruit vendor which announces as a quest and if scum manages to pull hijinks around it more power to them.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4176, davesaz wrote:But that is very short sighted, to excuse it as human error and not a possible gambit.
No, that is called following occam's razor with a dosage of hanlon's razor:
Not attributing to malice what can best be explained far more simply with stupidity.
The simple answer is stupidity.
The complex answer requiring contrived justifications is malice based on some possible gambit.[/quote] You never responded to this, which is a key part of the JUNGLE defense.
The stupidity is town believing it. I'm not stupid, therefore the trick does not work on me.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4176, davesaz wrote:If we look at Jungle
outside the quest info
, what would the read be?
If we look at JUNGLE outside of the quest info, the read would be solidly nulltown; there is nothing indicating pun and yet minor signs indicating town.
You never responded to this.
I explicitly read Jungle as scum regardless of the quest. If you persist in this I will be required to explicitly read you as an imbecile.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4178, davesaz wrote:I've mentioned this before in other games, but I haven't been keeping solid track on who I've seen as scum and who I haven't. So I don't know if I have seen Nero lurk as scum.
I can say conclusively that the argumentative and pushy Nero that I've seen as town was not present in this game. And Projectmatt's posting hasn't struck me as town.

I would be willing to accept a Projectmatt lynch if necessary, but would prefer that we resolve Jungle. If we allow scum!Jungle to push another fruitless outlandish quest on town it might damage us beyond repair. Am I wrong to think it's within the mod's range to include something tantalizing as a way to punish a greedy town? In the unlikely event Jungle is really town, it would be bad to lose the potential upside, but I can't see the game being designed so that town needs the quest to win. Furthermore if Jungle is town and the quest is powerful, why would scum leave the quest giver alive?
"I'm not going to lynch pun #1 in spite of acknowledging the evidence against him".
In post 4180, davesaz wrote:Regarding Maria, I know we can count on RC to have invited another member to the neighborhood. We can hope that at least one of them is town. If the neighborhood generates a track result on someone who visits, it yields two conf or a town/scum dipole. I think we wait on her to see what results there are, if any.
"I'm not going to lynch pun #2 on the basis of role-related reasons; we should wait for her to produce conftown in spite of me having just said we should not allow JUNGLE to produce results". (Hello, hypocrite.)
In post 4184, davesaz wrote:I know you're IC and all, but nice job on Wraith there. I never did get the explanation that I wanted on that. IC's wanting to lynch obvtown is sadly a thing.
This is the absolute most pro-pun thing a player can do to a person that is conftown; he is attempting to discredit Kaede's push/content now off of Kaede's push yesterday when
Kaede wasn't even the main pusher of the Wraith lynch
.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:I feel perhaps my snark weakens the strength of my point. So to reiterate,
In post 4178, davesaz wrote:If we allow scum!Jungle to push another fruitless outlandish quest on town it might damage us beyond repair. Am I wrong to think it's within the mod's range to include something tantalizing as a way to punish a greedy town? In the unlikely event Jungle is really town, it would be bad to lose the potential upside, but I can't see the game being designed so that town needs the quest to win. Furthermore if Jungle is town and the quest is powerful, why would scum leave the quest giver alive?
In post 4180, davesaz wrote:Regarding Maria, I know we can count on RC to have invited another member to the neighborhood. We can hope that at least one of them is town. If the neighborhood generates a track result on someone who visits, it yields two conf or a town/scum dipole. I think we wait on her to see what results there are, if any.
What differentiates these two, davesaz?


You are saying to lynch Jungle on the possibility his role may damage us; you are willing to sacrifice the utility of his ability.

You are saying to not lynch Maria on the possibility her role may help us; you are not willing to sacrifice the utility of her ability.

Care to offer an explanation?
You have said you'd vote projectmatt
yet your vote is still not on him
. You have said to spare MariaR off of role reasons and yet to not spare JUNGLE off of role reasons
yet not differentiated between the two
.
Between ProjectMatt and MariaR, I knew that I was in the hood and have a mechanical way to test her, therefore there is no universe in which she would be a priority prior to that test which doesn't include someone else having a guilty. Furthermore ProjectMatt claimed since then. You already know this answer.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4220, davesaz wrote:@Kaede -- quote anything from Jungle that doesn't involve the quest that is obviously town. Anything that is making the slightest effort to solve the game.
Innocent until proven guilty; the burden of proof is on the accuser.

@dave: quote anything from JUNGLE that doesn't involve the quest that is obviously pun. Anything that is making the slightest effort to manipulate the town.
You've not provided this.
In post 4448, Punreader wrote:
In post 4263, davesaz wrote:Scum lie and because they lie sometimes the unlikely answer is the correct one.
Scum can also be caught in those lies and yet you are adamant we not offer a chance for this to happen. If you're so sure JUNGLE is lying, then why not wait for it to be proven?
You never answered this.

I am well within my rights to call your responses a dodge, because you have dodged all of this to answer a mere fraction of my actual argument.
No I answered all of it and you failed to understand the answers.
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Post Post #4516 (isolation #123) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:44 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4514, Punreader wrote:
In post 4506, Ankamius wrote:
Punreader: I want your thoughts on these deductions at your next convenience.
If you think people are being cleared for mechanical reasons, sorry to disappoint. My read on wilky is play-based, not role-based; my read on Impossibear may be influenced by role but still has a basis in play; I am punreading matt, davesaz, and MariaR in spite of the role-based reasons to let them go; I have a play-based townread on REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE which gets stronger by the day; I have a lock-solid townread on OnTheMark separate from role-based reasons, revolving around play; Alchemist21 was already a strong townread without taking role into account.

Did I miss any roles?

Because if you want me to go over the play-based reasons for those townreads and punreads I can do so again.
I think you're town, but you're wrong on me and Jungle. You didn't state what your Wilky and Impossibear reads are so I don't know if those are wrong. OTM is very clearly town by play.
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Post Post #4518 (isolation #124) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:55 am

Post by davesaz »

ugh, I pre-edited that and it still has quote fails. :(
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Post Post #4521 (isolation #125) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:18 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4519, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Uh im not punreader but:
In post 4515, davesaz wrote:My argument is that GiF is the type of mod who would give us a scum fruit vendor which announces as a quest and if scum manages to pull hijinks around it more power to them.
You explicitly stated that, the quest being allowed to fail for a technicallity detracts from it's credibility.
To which punreader responded, that such a thing is
exactly
what GIF would do with a role based on their experience.

This doesnt address that and is dodging the question.
OK fine if it's a town role then it's a mistake.
How is that the slightest bit relevant when I think it's a scum role to begin with?
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Post Post #4523 (isolation #126) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:28 am

Post by davesaz »

Why does town Jungle use the quest on someone very likely to be NK'd?
Kaede and Ourobos should have been excluded from any possible target list.
Scum on the other hand want it to land on the NK, because if it really is a quest that helps town given by a scum player, eliminating the target of the quest is helpful to scum.
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Post Post #4526 (isolation #127) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:33 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4522, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
In post 4521, davesaz wrote:How is that the slightest bit relevant when I think it's a scum role to begin with?
It's relevant because the question is "is this the mod that would allow such a thing to happen" no "is the alignment of this player X because of what happened"
The question is, what is the alignment of player X regardless of what happened.
Jungle is scum. That's my read. Whether the role is a fruit vendor or a real quest giver, Jungle is still scum. By play it's so obvious it hurts my eyeballs.

Pedit: Jungle claims to not know what the quest does. It has never been publicly revealed what either quest actually did. The person given the quest has to survive that night before they can even receive it. It's perfect logic, what kind of question is that?
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Post Post #4534 (isolation #128) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:38 am

Post by davesaz »

EBWOP -- Jungle claims to not know what the quest will be, before giving it.
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Post Post #4538 (isolation #129) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:42 am

Post by davesaz »

Retracted -- they don't know until that night.
Pedit: yeah I found it too. I made a mistake.

Doubling down, the mod has not said what the quests do, so it's still just what Jungle claims.
Scum would claim something good, obviously.
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Post Post #4541 (isolation #130) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:05 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4520, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Also:
You want to lynch JUNGLE on the grounds that they have had a mod confirmed quest given to impossibear and since the quest failed it cannot be proven.
You dont want to lynch MariaR on the grounds that she can be confirmed later based on whether a track fails or not.
But...
What about matt who's not even arguing a roleblock, redirect or anything, but just that their predecessor didnt submit an action.
Nero was around when N1 ended, as he was here enough to post a replace out request, i struggle to believe they would just let the night go without a night action even if they planned on being replaced later. They were also here during twilight. Do you seriously believe Nero forgot to submit an action, but dont believe Jungle messed up the quest?
If JUNGLE is scum, the quests are things he's making up to make town run in circles.
If JUNGLE is town, the quests are things that GiF is making up to make town run in circles.
In either case town runs in circles. I think that's probably a bad thing. It's like the referendums the CiV game had, where the benefit was dubious at best given the cost.

I agree that Nero not submitting an action is sketchy. If they're both scum I don't mind just lynching the easier one. I've made my point, or at least tried to. If my fellow town choose to accept the trojan quest that's on them. I have to get a shower and go to work.

Plan:
The people who have claimed actions use them. Impossibear doesn't shoot in the neighborhood. OTM does not block anyone who has claimed an action.
If anyone who has claimed an action knows that their action does not target someone (and thus would not be trackable) please say so.
Maria and I use the neighborhood track on one of the people who have claimed an action. If we both survive the night and we get a +track then we're both conftown.
If I get killed y'all make up your own minds on Maria. I honestly don't have a read there.

If Maria gets killed you'll probably pull the lemmings thing and lynch me, and there's a good chance that will result in town losing. Not much I can do about that. I've towned as hard as I can, and hopefully my eventual flip will serve as the slap with a fish that everyone who scumreads me deserves. There is a slim chance that some of the clowns are actually scum and it could help town, but I'm not betting on it.

VOTE: projectmatt
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Post Post #4546 (isolation #131) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:49 am

Post by davesaz »

Who are your scumreads?
Can you verify with the mod that your action counts as a visit?
Would your action be guaranteed to register to a track before you get killed?
I'd prefer the track not be telegraphed so that scum doesn't know how to kill the track target to prevent 2 conftowns (provided Maria is town).
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Post Post #4547 (isolation #132) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:52 am

Post by davesaz »

Also you're conveniently forgetting that you can always block a scumread who doesn't have a claimed action.
If you'd rather not enumerate scumreads for this possibility that's an acceptable option, as long as you don't block who we try to track.
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Post Post #4550 (isolation #133) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:56 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4542, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Glad to finally get that sorted.
If it's you, Jungle, and someone else in 3p, for God's sake actually look at Jungle's posting.
That's a nightmare scenario for me, I'm worried you've conftowned someone who has done absolutely nothing pro-town the whole game.
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Post Post #4553 (isolation #134) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:04 am

Post by davesaz »

And yet another accidental pagetop is mine. At least this time I had something there for context. :lol:

Spoiler: Here's a clue for anyone who might be scumreading me because I see the possibilities that others don't.
One of the facets of my job is taking a core dump, syslog, and a vague explanation from a customer. Usually it's something that should be impossible.
I diagnose what happened by imagining the impossible reasons which could make this impossible thing happen.
CIO's of multinational banks don't take "I don't know, that can't happen" as an answer.
I'm really good at this -- one of the best in my area, world class if I don't mind saying so myself.
That's a RL fact, and I never lie about RL.

I'm offended by the doubters. I'm trying to get over it.
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Post Post #4563 (isolation #135) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:16 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4558, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 4555, Ankamius wrote:
In post 4554, Kokichi Oma wrote:If Matt flips scum I'll eat my socks and record it
Are you going to work with me tomorrow on a Matt town flip

Because town is going to lose if shit doesn't change in that case
We are going to lose regardless.
I'm town. If you think I'm scum you're wrong and you need to reconsider.
Maria will be sorted so I don't need your read there.
Tell me the rest of your reads.
I don't remember and I'm an extremely busy person, so don't give me any bullshit about looking myself.
If you're town (which from your previous reads I seriously doubt but could be wrong) maybe talking about it will help.
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Post Post #4565 (isolation #136) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:18 am

Post by davesaz »

^ goes for both of you, except for Ank I'm pretty null so the doubting part doesn't apply as much...
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Post Post #4568 (isolation #137) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:23 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4546, davesaz wrote:Who are your scumreads?
Can you verify with the mod that your action counts as a visit?
Would your action be guaranteed to register to a track before you get killed?
I'd prefer the track not be telegraphed so that scum doesn't know how to kill the track target to prevent 2 conftowns (provided Maria is town).
This was a serious request for a list, TIA. Same comment as the one I made above. Help the moderately old guy here.
If you know the answers to the other questions we
need
them before a flip. (TBH I do not know if it's a hammer)

Pedit: oh great, a wallpost with a bunch of self quotes, that's really helpful. :roll:
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Post Post #4571 (isolation #138) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:26 am

Post by davesaz »

If punreader is extremely competent scum hiding behind an alt, I could see that slot as being manipulative.
It's really over the top effort though which means it must be for an extremely important reason if it's scum motivated.
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Post Post #4575 (isolation #139) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:29 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4572, Ankamius wrote:I wasn't responding to you bud
You're welcome to respond to me though, if you'd be so kind. :)
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Post Post #4586 (isolation #140) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:36 am

Post by davesaz »

Please list your scumreads.
I really hate repeating myself.
Maybe you could block someone who is null? Are you saying you
explicitly
townread
everyone
who hasn't claimed an action?
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Post Post #4594 (isolation #141) » Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:41 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4587, Kaede Akamatsu wrote: No, a scum MariaR could easily say they tracked you to your target and shoot dave.
Likewise for a scum Dave shooting MariaR, if they know who you are targeting.
Exactly right.
It's equally important that the thread does not know who we target so that scum can't kill them, so it's not a foregone conclusion that OTM is our target.
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Post Post #4606 (isolation #142) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:02 am

Post by davesaz »

I already know the answer because this was asked via PM, now it's time to have the mod confirm in thread.

@MOD: Would a role with standard Miller mechanics affect the Railroad's track ability in the same way as Institute would? In other words, would a Miller role cause a false result of no visit?
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Post Post #4672 (isolation #143) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:32 pm

Post by davesaz »

I was not in the hood till after n2.
VOTE: maria
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Post Post #4673 (isolation #144) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:33 pm

Post by davesaz »

After the Matt result. Lost track of which night ebwop. On tablet typing is painful
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Post Post #4675 (isolation #145) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by davesaz »

That’s why rc had to be killed obv... and impossibear must have been n1 attempt. If Maria town then otm scum qed.

Petit no the result is for before. New member does not vote on that night target.
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Post Post #4758 (isolation #146) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:21 am

Post by davesaz »

Agree, and the neighborize targets ended up being useful too.

It should be pretty much beyond doubt that if I had been scum with Maria we could have announced OTM's crumbed target and both been cleared. Maria must have thought she could frame me by being the first to reveal the no result. I'm happy that the ramifications of the matt no result swayed enough people to get Maria lynched.

I agree with wanting to hear from JUNGLE before doing much. There is probably a lot of heavy lifting to get remaining scum. Do we think the team is more likely to be 4 or 5? I think it's on the line and could go either way. Possible deep scum here.
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Post Post #4780 (isolation #147) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:44 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4763, Kokichi Oma wrote:We should just lynch dave I guess? I'm not sure. I'll read and decide. Likely one scum left anyway
Only if you're a complete moron.
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Post Post #4781 (isolation #148) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:46 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4769, Punreader wrote:You know the player this implicates to me?

VOTE: davesaz.
VOTE: punreader
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Post Post #4783 (isolation #149) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: ankamius
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Post Post #4785 (isolation #150) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4758, davesaz wrote:Agree, and the neighborize targets ended up being useful too.

It should be pretty much beyond doubt that if I had been scum with Maria we could have announced OTM's crumbed target and both been cleared. Maria must have thought she could frame me by being the first to reveal the no result. I'm happy that the ramifications of the matt no result swayed enough people to get Maria lynched.


I agree with wanting to hear from JUNGLE before doing much. There is probably a lot of heavy lifting to get remaining scum. Do we think the team is more likely to be 4 or 5? I think it's on the line and could go either way. Possible deep scum here.
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Post Post #4786 (isolation #151) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:49 pm

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: Kaede
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Post Post #4787 (isolation #152) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:49 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'm conftown. Get that through your thick skulls and move on.
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Post Post #4788 (isolation #153) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by davesaz »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #4798 (isolation #154) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:31 pm

Post by davesaz »

Sorry about the outburst, i had to prevent a lemmings incident.
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Post Post #4799 (isolation #155) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:32 pm

Post by davesaz »

Still some bad votes sitting...
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Post Post #4801 (isolation #156) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:42 pm

Post by davesaz »

You can be scum though so I'm not as concerned.
Town can win merely by refusing to go after town.
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Post Post #4804 (isolation #157) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4802, Ankamius wrote:1. onthemark is a dumb check
What is this nonsense? Trying to track the only person in the game who can't be prevented from acting is the only mechanically correct move for the neighborhood's ability.
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Post Post #4805 (isolation #158) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:08 pm

Post by davesaz »

To be honest though, I've tinfoiled people who were more obv. Maybe you're not scum.
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Post Post #4846 (isolation #159) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:30 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4806, Ankamius wrote:then why wasn't OTM checked
Again what are you talking about? Otm was checked, if you mean tracked by the hood. That was how we got Maria guilty.
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Post Post #4848 (isolation #160) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:37 pm

Post by davesaz »

Oh you’re talking n2. Rc thought Matt was scum and the track itself would lead to a kill.
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Post Post #4849 (isolation #161) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:50 pm

Post by davesaz »

BTW why is the N2 choice even relevant? I didn't enter the hood until after N2 was over -- that choice was strictly Ourobouos and Maria.
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Post Post #4852 (isolation #162) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:01 pm

Post by davesaz »

Why/how is it relevant?

Neighborhood tracked projectmatt. Maria and Ourobos (damn how do you spell that anyway) were the only ones there. Result - no visit.
Ourobos dies, I enter hood.
Maria
says that projectmatt went nowhere, which I confirm later.
Projectmatt flips a scum role
which should be active.


N3, Maria and I track OTM, who has an
unblockable action.
You will see in postgame that Maria tried to talk me out of it.
Maria chooses to out the no-track. Presumably to try to frame me as the scum. We lynch her anyway because
the n2 result indicated scum in hood before I joined
.

Now, explain what your problem is with this.
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Post Post #4854 (isolation #163) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

Check RC flip - the neighborhood was n-shot, one shot per neighbor added. Maria +1, me +1; projectmatt -1, OTM -1 -> 0 remaining shots. Unfortunate but decent mechanics.
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Post Post #4856 (isolation #164) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

On 3rd thought, I think Ank is just scum trying desperately to get the only mislynch available.
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Post Post #4859 (isolation #165) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by davesaz »

The only doubt I had all along about Maria scum was that projectmatt could have no-actioned. I preferred to be absolutely sure vs. trying to swing a lynch D3 with no equity.
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Post Post #4860 (isolation #166) » Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by davesaz »

Before Ank asks why I didn't press the 1v1 myself D4 -- because Kaede saw the logic and it was better for conftown to push vs. possibly losing the 1v1 -- even though MariaR was dead meat either way. ;)
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Post Post #4867 (isolation #167) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:37 am

Post by davesaz »

The working theory which has never been seriously questioned is that scum shot Impossibear N1 and ran into their 1-shot BP.
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Post Post #4868 (isolation #168) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:39 am

Post by davesaz »

One thing I've never had enough time for is to dig into the Wraith lynch and see who might have been scum there.
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Post Post #4904 (isolation #169) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:35 pm

Post by davesaz »

No amount of fake "evidence" is going to change the fact that I'm town.

VOTE: punreader

This is scum making a valiant last ditch effort to mislynch someone, anyone.
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Post Post #4917 (isolation #170) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:54 pm

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: Ankamius
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Post Post #4922 (isolation #171) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:03 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4920, Ankamius wrote:well, technically davesaz basically scumclaimed, I just didn't mention that since I know that's not exactly convincing coming from me in this game
Umm, no I'm claiming conftown.
WTF are you talking about?
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Post Post #4923 (isolation #172) » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4918, Kaede Akamatsu wrote: Of course everyone wants to be right, but all I care about is solving this fricking game.
If you want help solving, you need to tell these yammerheads to shut up about there even being the slightest possibility of me being scum.
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Post Post #4945 (isolation #173) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:49 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4940, YT2980 wrote:davesaz, who are your townreads? i see a lot of claims that you are town in your posting, but not many reflections outwards of who is town. your townreads may have important implications moving forward, in the case you are lynched and flip town.
The only people I'm sure about being town are Kaede and myself, and at the moment I don't even trust Kaede to pursue town wincon.
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Post Post #4948 (isolation #174) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:04 am

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: Kaede
I'm seriously OMGUSing everyone who votes me, even the IC.
I don't care if you like it.
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Post Post #4949 (isolation #175) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:05 am

Post by davesaz »

VOTE: Ankamius
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Post Post #4950 (isolation #176) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:09 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4946, Ankamius wrote:you could show your innocence by... you know, gamesolving instead of shouting about how town you are
I don't work under duress, period. This is something I do for fun, and if it's not fun then I don't do it.
I'm off the table, then I solve the game. Look at it this way -- if scum can't mislynch me they'll have to kill me.
if lynching all 3 of the scum so far and correctly reading every one of the flips so far (including Wraith whose lynch I openly questioned) doesn't do it for you then I don't know what will.
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Post Post #4951 (isolation #177) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:14 am

Post by davesaz »

My money is on Jungle for scum BTW. Private info that I can't share indicates that the Impossibear quest would have gone through even if Jungle made the alleged mistake.

Actually, I was going to say that I'm only waiting because the IC wants to wait, but fuck waiting.
VOTE: REAL MEN ONLY JUNGLE

I'm going to go back to concentrating on my day job.
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Post Post #4957 (isolation #178) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:02 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4955, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4951, davesaz wrote:My money is on Jungle for scum BTW.
Private info that I can't share indicates that the Impossibear quest would have gone through even if Jungle made the alleged mistake.


Actually, I was going to say that I'm only waiting because the IC wants to wait, but fuck waiting.
VOTE: REAL MEN ONLY JUNGLE

I'm going to go back to concentrating on my day job.
Why didn’t you say something about this earlier and why can’t the info be shared in some form?
I should rephrase. I can't quote or prove the private info.

I suppose I could try to paraphrase and hopefully GIF won't be too upset about it.
In the hood, each current member must agree on the track target. I suggested OTM, Maria suggested some others, I said no the thread is expecting us to do this, Maria said ok, I bolded the hood's track request. I also said that I thought Maria should bold her answer as well to make it official. GIF said he wouldn't be that picky. (all of the preceding is going from memory so if I happened to say anything that exactly matches the thread's content it's not intentional)

Applying that principle to what Jungle claimed happened to the Impossibear "quest", I don't think GIF would reject the action if the intent was clear.

Of the people voting me, Kokichi and Ank are the ones more likely to be scum if game doesn't end on a Jungle lynch. Punreader is more likely town making the same class of mistake the OTM was making, but still horrible.
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Post Post #4958 (isolation #179) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:04 am

Post by davesaz »

As far as I'm concerned that makes the quest thing a red-handed guilty. You wouldn't listen to me D3 and we had the happy ending of projectmatt being scum. D4 there wasn't much point since we had caught scum Maria. Now I want my Jungle lynch TYVM.
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Post Post #4960 (isolation #180) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:18 am

Post by davesaz »

I have a certain amount of free time. If y'all decide to force me to waste that time it's on you.
I notice you haven't unvoted.
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Post Post #4962 (isolation #181) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am

Post by davesaz »

GIF's reply indicates that intent is what matters, not form. He'd have to be paying absolutely no attention to events at all to not be able to perceive intent and execute it.
Therefore Jungle is lying. Has been lying all along. Probably disappeared to not get caught lying. I bet the replacement tries to claim that it was all a joke or something and it's really a town fruit vendor.
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Post Post #4967 (isolation #182) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:52 am

Post by davesaz »

I do suspect Kokichi, as the most likely scum on my wagon, and independently based on play.
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Post Post #4969 (isolation #183) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:54 am

Post by davesaz »

In post 4966, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:I also got reminded why I found Jungle's role so fricken town.
It's only a town role if it's true. If it's all lies then it's a trap. Even if it's a town role, it's a trap to make town run in circles. Like a bunch of lemmings.
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Post Post #4971 (isolation #184) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:57 am

Post by davesaz »

What else do I call a bunch of people who are willing to run off a cliff? :lol:
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Post Post #4973 (isolation #185) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:59 am

Post by davesaz »

Trying to lynch me is moving the scum wincon forward, how hard do I need to whack you to make you see that? :facepalm:
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Post Post #4976 (isolation #186) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:01 pm

Post by davesaz »

Regarding targeting, what else would a scum fruit vendor do other than target people the "quests" should go to? :roll:
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Post Post #4980 (isolation #187) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:07 pm

Post by davesaz »

No, you don't get it. People think the's town because of the quests, and for no other reason. That's smart scum play.
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Post Post #4983 (isolation #188) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:09 pm

Post by davesaz »

I issued this challenge before, and I'm renewing it. Erase the quests from the game. Read Jungle
strictly on posting
.
There is absolutely nothing town about that slot if you remove the quests.
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Post Post #4989 (isolation #189) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4985, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.
There won't be a lylo if you let me solve the game.
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Post Post #4995 (isolation #190) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:46 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4988, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4985, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.
Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.
Explain how it's not possible that the whole thing is a sham?

I think town is more likely than scum, but I'm unwilling to call it an inno.
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Post Post #4998 (isolation #191) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:51 pm

Post by davesaz »

@MOD: prod time?
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Post Post #4999 (isolation #192) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:52 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4996, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:A block if true is def an inno if there's 1 scum remaining. Strongman is dead after all.
Logic fail. Strongman has absolutely nothing to do with slow cop. If the slow cop is even real.
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Post Post #5002 (isolation #193) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:56 pm

Post by davesaz »

The logic fail is that him saying he's blocked is immaterial, therefore him saying he's blocked isn't an inno under any circumstances.
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Post Post #5003 (isolation #194) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:58 pm

Post by davesaz »

I can't decide if bringing up that "inno" in the first place was scummy or just bad.
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Post Post #5006 (isolation #195) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:59 pm

Post by davesaz »

In post 4988, Alchemist21 wrote:
In post 4985, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.
Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.
Yeah this one.
OTM had a scumread on Alchemist, IIRC.
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Post Post #5070 (isolation #196) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by davesaz »

You trust my scum case on Jungle.
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Post Post #5071 (isolation #197) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by davesaz »

Or just replace out and get us a real ic.
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Post Post #5072 (isolation #198) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by davesaz »

I'm so fucking close to just posting my role PM and being done with the lot of you.
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Post Post #5074 (isolation #199) » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by davesaz »

The told you so is going to be so sweet this game. If I bother staying on the site. It's not doing my health any good.
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