Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Impossibear]

ETL is out of contact this weekend, so I'm not gonna do any crazy gambits or anything until at least Monday.

ETL is V/LA every weekend, so I'll be doing most of my posting on the weekends.

VOTE: Nero

Obvscum.

[Impossibear]

VOTE: Tchill13

For srs business.

I explicitly believe the claim.

[Impossibear]

All impossibear posts so far in this game have been Jingle, btw.

I'll try to sign, but I'm pretty out of practice hydraing.

ETL will probably be posting from her main half the time , because she's bad.

[Impossibear]

Hey, someone with time and nothing better to do:

Find games GiF's run with multiple millers.
Crossreference playerlists with wilky/dave.
Find any other games with wilky/dave and multiple millers.

Link all of those for me to go through.

TYIA

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

ETL IS HERE! ♥

First - apologies for the late arrival. Didn't think it would start that quickly, and when it did I was away all weekend. Then I got a flat tire in the middle of nowhere and didn't have access to a computer all day yesterday. Back now. And here we goo..

Please don't skip reading these - I have a lot of discussion I missed and would like to engage with people about several posts, plus I put a lot of time and work into reading this game in-depth rather than skimming so...

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 1-5

I actually like Alchemist thinking about the what-ifs and could-be's right away, especially for a player he seems to be familiar with.

VOTE: GiF

i'm pretty sure he's scum

This, however, is a total cop-out to avoid suspicion in RVS by not engaging an actual player. Do not like.

Not a fan of the lame back and forth between MariaR and Kaede. Looks really lame and kitschy.

it's more accurately an aversion to gambits as any alignment.
Not claiming miller as town would be a gambit on hoping to not be investigated.

So, does this mean the miller claim is frfr?

i believe they arent fake claiming miller, but that doesnt imply them being town and i'll just rely on day play or other methods to read them.
While on that subject, I think alchemist's use of meta to read dave wasnt scum motivated.

I do like this though, and I agree.

Trust other people? What is this blasphemy?

Another useless post from Ram

two town millers.

Not "two millers", two "town millers". Noted.

So it would be better that the one we think is more likely to be Town going second, so we can confirm or deny the first. But of course if both millers are telling the truth and think this same way, both would be hesitant to go first because they want to be able to confirm the other and could create a potential stalemate.

That's probably overthinking it but basically I still personally have more reason to believe your claim over Wilky's and would rather Wikly be required to claim flavor and you confirm/deny it.

Absolutely excellent critical thinking here. Alchemist is my first personal town read. However, I really liked the way Wilky came in right away and challenged dave - that kind of attitude sounds like it comes from town trying to catch someone in a lie they can verify. I really like it, and have Wilky as the next top town read for it. dave is still rather null as I've never played much with millers (if ever... I don't remember a game I've played that had one) and the theory behind it is new to me.

Wilky had an odd reaction to being CCed and I think he might be scum miller given miller as a fakeclaim.

It's like they're not even reading the game... dave got CC'd, not the other way around.

Also this is weird... like a forced "town tell". So basic.

@Mod - Do scum have access to day talk?

You are in a counterclaim and your reaction to the counterclaim felt straight up scum.

I also have a very good grasp of the way GIF's mind works and him putting 1 scum with miller fakeclaim countering 1 town miller makes so, so much sense

Ghost

.....

No. Dave claimed miller first, then Wilky countered that claim with his own miller claim.

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

Like this is SUCH an "I'm scum and didn't have fakeclaims" response.

Well it doesnt feel like that, it feels more like scum using fake claims to their advantage, but i do wonder, eh why not.
VOTE: wilky

VOTE: Impossibear

Good morning

UNVOTE: Impossibear

Vote: verylazy

Unvote: verylazy

VOTE: Wikly

You're just jealous that you're not one of the cool kids.

Also, wheeeeeeeeeee

UNVOTE: wilky
VOTE: verylazy

What the shit is this...

VC 1.01

Ventriloquist (2):

davesaz, hebichan

Ouroboros (1):

Alchemist21

Nero Cain (1):

Impossibear

Tchill13 (1):

verylazy

Kaede Akamatsu (1):

Dunnstral

MariaR (1):

Ramcius

davesaz (1):

wilky

wilky (5):

Ouroboros, Kaede Akamatsu, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Ankamius

WOW. There is

DEFINITELY

scum in this group. Make this the short-list for D1 lynch or N1 investigations.

OK I've thought pretty hard and long about this.

I don't see how my role could be a positive for town.

I'm hard claiming hider that can hide behind scum.

I'm hoping it's understandable why I would hard claim this day 1.

.....?

I hope you elaborate on this in great detail in the coming pages

because honestly, this is the scummiest fucking thing I've seen all thread.

OK I've thought pretty hard and long about this.

I don't see how my role could be a positive for town.

I'm hard claiming hider that can hide behind scum.

I'm hoping it's understandable why I would hard claim this day 1.

Uh it's a bad idea to claim this day 1

at least you maybe drag the kill away from me long enough for me to do some damage

tbf the hider claim D1 is really really stupid, not sure if it's town or not though.

If a tracker or watcher was to see me I didn't want to cause confusion.

I have absolutely no way of helping town. Only causing confusion.

Which is why I hard claimed.

This literally makes zero sense. Targeting scum is almost always seen as coming from town because there's really only a few scum roles that do so - most useful scum roles will be targeting town.

ETL will probably be posting from her main half the time , because she's bad.

I'll try to be good. I don't have it bookmarked on my main so that should help!

correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.

Why do you think it's useless though...?

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 6-10

I don't really understand the purpose of a scum miller? Can someone point me a GIF game that had two millers where one of them was scum? TYVM.

As a Town Miller, he has every reason to counterclaim Dave and push the flavor claim and try to catch Dave in a lie while assuming there's only 1 Miller

This is why I think wilky's town 100%. That is exactly how his posts sounded to me. I've been there, it feels great to find something confirmable that could catch scum. His posts come off kind of excited and confident about it.

Regarding the scum possibility, on one hand it does seem to not make sense that he gave Dave the chance to prove he was a 2nd Miller if he didn't even think it was possible before the mod meta was brought up, but on the other hand actually claiming Miller instead of just keeping quiet even if he actually is a scum Miller is opening himself up to the possibility of getting policy lynched or vigged - 2 possibilities that I have to believe his scumbuddies would have warned him about as a scum Miller.

Agree 100% with this as well. It doesn't make sense to not only throw yourself into the spotlight but to do so against 1 person you would know is town. It doesn't end well for scum there.

Someone rolls scum Miller they CC here in exactly that manner because it's the obvious thing to do + not cc'ing at all opens to role cop.

No. You're wrong. If I were a scum miller, I'd shut the fuck up completely until I was forced to say anything about my role. 1) why attract an investigation unnecessarily, and 2) why pit myself in a 1v1 against town? Neither of these make any sense. I would even go so far as to call scum counter claiming miller as game-throwing. It's the exact opposite of what a scum miller would want to do.

VOTE: Ouroborous

I wanna see RC go batshit crazy after getting only like 1 vote lololololol

P-edit holy wallpost batman

miller talk is dumbass shit lol

are you guys ready to lynch scum or not

MariaR is probably scum like, totally scum scum

GOAT READS courtesy of ME

Oh look, I found the VI.

well, this hider claim might come from scum - this way they are safe from checks and can't be used as weak cop - won't die, if visit scum

Explain. This makes no sense to me.

"do scum have daytalk" is a common grab-for-towncred to the point where it's almost a joke, and i'm pretty sure i've seen it used like that before.

Yep. I've done it. And it worked back then. But not anymore. It's old shit, and this was a newbscum move if ever I saw one.

That said I'm not even like townreading Tchill play wise but the amount of scummy people jumping on him over wilky is pretty staggering to the point I want to locktown him

If you're town, you must be completely unable to read tone. Why are you trying to shift the wagon off tchill? Mafdoc maybe? That makes sense as a role that can target scum and would make tchill paranoid about being tracked.

I'm conflicted because I'm gutreading ouroboros as town with just no skill. Like... I like that they're trying; they're reading the game and attempting analysis, which is much more than can be said for several other players so far.

hm, good point, i'm not used to scum protectives, so haven't considered that

Spoken as though he knows there is one. The mafdoc theory is looking more likely.

I'd like to call Ram and tchill as close to confscum as I've ever had on D1. This is amazing.

Wilky is a legendary tier information lynch at this point but meh I would rather lynch the person who is 90% scum vs the person who is like 70ish%

there's no way that character is scum. gtfo.

This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.

VOTE: Ramcius

Trust me, he's not flying under any radars here. I've got my eye laser focused on him. If I were playing solo, my vote would be on Ram.

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

Is your

role

miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.

The role is Commenwealth Miller with something else too. I didn't really want to full claim but there is more to my role.

I'm pretty sure yall don't have the exact role. Hes the scientist and you're the droid. If you've played the game, you'll recognize the flavor (I have, and do). At this point, if both of you are town, I'd suggest dropping this line of conversation.

Like at this point I think we know enough to at least know they're both Millers. I don't think they need to give up any more info unless they get out to L-1.

Yep. Alchemist is town as well, though I think that was obvious on page 2.

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

Meh. I think Nero Cain is a better player than that. Plus it would be so much easier to hop on the dave/wilky train, or tchill at this point in the game. Or even Ram as his wagon is ramping up here (page 9/10) as well. Though I think Ram has a super high probably of actually being scum, so... either way, there are other better options for scumNero to choose from than this silliness. Not saying he's town, as he's completely null for me at the moment, just that I think this post is wrong.

Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort?

I mean... it's possible... but is it probable? I don't really think so. Anyone with GIF meta re: jesters? I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be in a game like this.

Jingle says: GIF wouldn't put jester into this. He would use jester, but not for this.

I like Ventriloquist for town at this point as well, primarily for posts like 246

I think Ramcius scumflip heavily townspews Wilky and likely Tchill as well

Ok this is an interesting thought. Can you explain a bit what your thinking is on this? I don't know that I see an association via Ramcius right now.

Yall post too much.

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 11-15

I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.

This is a very curious post. I don't understand the logic.

VOTE: Nero Cain

This seems good

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

VOTE: Nero

this is scum sheeping dumb town.

vote:Maria

I think I'm inclined to agree with you here.

He brought out the join date boys.

deflect

yep.
I think Nero is gaining town ferocity here. It looks good.

The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with

Uh.. ok but why do you disagree? I think his logic is sound.

nevermind you answered this question on the next page.

Am I the only person here who's SRing Wilky not because of what they claimed but for the way they did it?

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

It is literally the other way around on this for me. I am townreading Wilky because of the way he made his CC. Jingle says he can understand why you think about this the way you do, but we happen to disagree with you.

we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.

BINGO. I disagree with many of your initial conclusions, but you seem to be following the same thought process as me as the thread progresses.

Townreads

Tchill -

eh....

Davesaz -

sure

Alchemist21 -

yes

Hebichan -

eh.. ok.

Our slot obvobv -

yes

Lazy townreads

Dunnstral -

sure

I like this.

Why you comparing mine and Wilky wagons traction?

Very strong scumhunting technique. It seems you don't like it.

I was also considering putting Nero in lazy townreads pile ftr.

Yep. Agreed.

his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him

Yes exactly what I was thinking.

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?

I just realised i can't change RC mind and going against him would ended in my own lynch, so i decided settle for my 2nd scumread and give RC his way. There are people i feel like arguing and there are people i try reason a bit and just give their way, if they seems unmovable.

As for VI, i disagree with that, it's just that people find my methods scummy or rather not up to this site meta and i get ML'ed way too often D1 to my liking.

Also, we played in Beneath the Mask, so you have some first hand experience with me and my methods

*SIGH* This is honestly a very genuine-sounding post from a player not accustomed to this site, which makes me doubt my scumread.

Holy shit that was a lot of pages to consume in one sitting. Ok, page 16:

The second quote is the one that really irks me though, coming in and asking about a specific player. I'd put my neck on the line now and say IF there was a Maria scumflip then Alch would most likely be scum too.

Can you walk me through your logic here? I don't quite follow.

How wagons build can be a good way to form reads through wagon analysis to. Granted wagon analysis isn't my strongest point though.

It is definitely one of my stronger points, so you're in luck there. Keep it up and I can help. So far I am in agreement with Ouro on the ram v. wilky wagons. Except Ram's 315 doesn't fit the narrative and that bothers me.

Oh boy, i don't think anyone believes there 2 scums in you, Dave and Tchill, so question is which one of you is scum? Dave is townread by majority, so i leave him out, as i did before, therefore it's you and Tchill. At this point i hope it's obvious, why you and Dave are millers, if Tchill is scum trying to use fuss caused by millers

I like this logic, and agree. Both Dave and Wilky are town imo, though the dave read is far less confident. Jingle strongly thinks tchill to be the scum in that bunch. Overall I agree but I just don't understand anything that tchill has been doing from either perspective.

IMPOSSIBEAR MindMeld ReadsList

Wilky - town
hebichan - ETL thinks town, especially if ram is scum.
Kaede Akamatsu - IC
ManWithNoName - town (for now, b/c jingle is paranoid)
MariaR - unknown - cannot read whether town or scum motivated posts. ETL thought scummy at first but Jingle thinks moonlogic posts are NAI.
Wraith - who?
Ramcius - at first highly convinced this was scum until post 315 now have no idea.
Ankamius - scum
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells) - town
Tchill13 - scum
Dunnstral - mildly town
verylazy - ?
davesaz - mildly town
Ventriloquist - mildly town
Alchemist21 - town
Nero Cain -town
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE -

ETL SAYS: KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[Impossibear]

Acknowledging having read full post

Thinking about it

Clarify man with no name and Ventriloquist townreads please

Re: MWNN - Jingle can't remember his posts, and thinks he may be an alt. I said I liked his posts, though I disagree with him (MWNN) on wilky. Both Jingle and i are mainly townreading him for posts like 160. Both of us also agree with some of his setup spec, which indicates town to me, but Jingle thinks it's suspect.

Re: Ventriloquit - We didn't really talk about this one in-depth, so it's primarily my read (ETL). I mentioned in my catch up that I'm slightly townreading him for posts like 246 because it comes across as a player who is thinking about the game from a town perspective. I'll admit it is a very mild read at the moment simply due to unfamiliarity with the person, but I like most of their posts. Call it gut, if you will.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Was 387 made in a hydra PT? All the post links in it lead to a thread I'm unauthorized to access.

*sigh* that's so lame that it does that. the bbcode should be proper for the [post] tags regardless if it's in the hydra PT or in the main thread. I will fix.

Why is Real Men on your kill it with fire list?

Because all posts are useless trolly garbage and I think it's a wasted slot. It's totally unreadable and just adds noise to the thread. Would much prefer someone I can actually at least attempt to figure out via ISO or engagement. As it stands, I don't want to talk to that person at all, ever, and would be happy if they disappeared entirely.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Fixed, though I only found 3, 2 of which were the same.

ETL IS HERE! ♥

First - apologies for the late arrival. Didn't think it would start that quickly, and when it did I was away all weekend. Then I got a flat tire in the middle of nowhere and didn't have access to a computer all day yesterday. Back now. And here we goo..

Please don't skip reading these - I have a lot of discussion I missed and would like to engage with people about several posts, plus I put a lot of time and work into reading this game in-depth rather than skimming so...

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 1-5

I actually like Alchemist thinking about the what-ifs and could-be's right away, especially for a player he seems to be familiar with.

VOTE: GiF

i'm pretty sure he's scum

This, however, is a total cop-out to avoid suspicion in RVS by not engaging an actual player. Do not like.

Not a fan of the lame back and forth between MariaR and Kaede. Looks really lame and kitschy.

it's more accurately an aversion to gambits as any alignment.
Not claiming miller as town would be a gambit on hoping to not be investigated.

So, does this mean the miller claim is frfr?

i believe they arent fake claiming miller, but that doesnt imply them being town and i'll just rely on day play or other methods to read them.
While on that subject, I think alchemist's use of meta to read dave wasnt scum motivated.

I do like this though, and I agree.

Trust other people? What is this blasphemy?

Another useless post from Ram

two town millers.

Not "two millers", two "town millers". Noted.

So it would be better that the one we think is more likely to be Town going second, so we can confirm or deny the first. But of course if both millers are telling the truth and think this same way, both would be hesitant to go first because they want to be able to confirm the other and could create a potential stalemate.

That's probably overthinking it but basically I still personally have more reason to believe your claim over Wilky's and would rather Wikly be required to claim flavor and you confirm/deny it.

Absolutely excellent critical thinking here. Alchemist is my first personal town read. However, I really liked the way Wilky came in right away and challenged dave - that kind of attitude sounds like it comes from town trying to catch someone in a lie they can verify. I really like it, and have Wilky as the next top town read for it. dave is still rather null as I've never played much with millers (if ever... I don't remember a game I've played that had one) and the theory behind it is new to me.

Wilky had an odd reaction to being CCed and I think he might be scum miller given miller as a fakeclaim.

It's like they're not even reading the game... dave got CC'd, not the other way around.

Also this is weird... like a forced "town tell". So basic.

@Mod - Do scum have access to day talk?

You are in a counterclaim and your reaction to the counterclaim felt straight up scum.

I also have a very good grasp of the way GIF's mind works and him putting 1 scum with miller fakeclaim countering 1 town miller makes so, so much sense

Ghost

.....

No. Dave claimed miller first, then Wilky countered that claim with his own miller claim.

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

Like this is SUCH an "I'm scum and didn't have fakeclaims" response.

Well it doesnt feel like that, it feels more like scum using fake claims to their advantage, but i do wonder, eh why not.
VOTE: wilky

VOTE: Impossibear

Good morning

UNVOTE: Impossibear

Vote: verylazy

Unvote: verylazy

VOTE: Wikly

You're just jealous that you're not one of the cool kids.

Also, wheeeeeeeeeee

UNVOTE: wilky
VOTE: verylazy

What the shit is this...

VC 1.01

Ventriloquist (2):

davesaz, hebichan

Ouroboros (1):

Alchemist21

Nero Cain (1):

Impossibear

Tchill13 (1):

verylazy

Kaede Akamatsu (1):

Dunnstral

MariaR (1):

Ramcius

davesaz (1):

wilky

wilky (5):

Ouroboros, Kaede Akamatsu, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Ankamius

WOW. There is

DEFINITELY

scum in this group. Make this the short-list for D1 lynch or N1 investigations.

OK I've thought pretty hard and long about this.

I don't see how my role could be a positive for town.

I'm hard claiming hider that can hide behind scum.

I'm hoping it's understandable why I would hard claim this day 1.

.....?

I hope you elaborate on this in great detail in the coming pages

because honestly, this is the scummiest fucking thing I've seen all thread.

OK I've thought pretty hard and long about this.

I don't see how my role could be a positive for town.

I'm hard claiming hider that can hide behind scum.

I'm hoping it's understandable why I would hard claim this day 1.

Uh it's a bad idea to claim this day 1

at least you maybe drag the kill away from me long enough for me to do some damage

tbf the hider claim D1 is really really stupid, not sure if it's town or not though.

If a tracker or watcher was to see me I didn't want to cause confusion.

I have absolutely no way of helping town. Only causing confusion.

Which is why I hard claimed.

This literally makes zero sense. Targeting scum is almost always seen as coming from town because there's really only a few scum roles that do so - most useful scum roles will be targeting town.

ETL will probably be posting from her main half the time , because she's bad.

I'll try to be good. I don't have it bookmarked on my main so that should help!

correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.

Why do you think it's useless though...?

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 6-10

I don't really understand the purpose of a scum miller? Can someone point me a GIF game that had two millers where one of them was scum? TYVM.

As a Town Miller, he has every reason to counterclaim Dave and push the flavor claim and try to catch Dave in a lie while assuming there's only 1 Miller

This is why I think wilky's town 100%. That is exactly how his posts sounded to me. I've been there, it feels great to find something confirmable that could catch scum. His posts come off kind of excited and confident about it.

Regarding the scum possibility, on one hand it does seem to not make sense that he gave Dave the chance to prove he was a 2nd Miller if he didn't even think it was possible before the mod meta was brought up, but on the other hand actually claiming Miller instead of just keeping quiet even if he actually is a scum Miller is opening himself up to the possibility of getting policy lynched or vigged - 2 possibilities that I have to believe his scumbuddies would have warned him about as a scum Miller.

Agree 100% with this as well. It doesn't make sense to not only throw yourself into the spotlight but to do so against 1 person you would know is town. It doesn't end well for scum there.

Someone rolls scum Miller they CC here in exactly that manner because it's the obvious thing to do + not cc'ing at all opens to role cop.

No. You're wrong. If I were a scum miller, I'd shut the fuck up completely until I was forced to say anything about my role. 1) why attract an investigation unnecessarily, and 2) why pit myself in a 1v1 against town? Neither of these make any sense. I would even go so far as to call scum counter claiming miller as game-throwing. It's the exact opposite of what a scum miller would want to do.

VOTE: Ouroborous

I wanna see RC go batshit crazy after getting only like 1 vote lololololol

P-edit holy wallpost batman

miller talk is dumbass shit lol

are you guys ready to lynch scum or not

MariaR is probably scum like, totally scum scum

GOAT READS courtesy of ME

Oh look, I found the VI.

well, this hider claim might come from scum - this way they are safe from checks and can't be used as weak cop - won't die, if visit scum

Explain. This makes no sense to me.

"do scum have daytalk" is a common grab-for-towncred to the point where it's almost a joke, and i'm pretty sure i've seen it used like that before.

Yep. I've done it. And it worked back then. But not anymore. It's old shit, and this was a newbscum move if ever I saw one.

That said I'm not even like townreading Tchill play wise but the amount of scummy people jumping on him over wilky is pretty staggering to the point I want to locktown him

If you're town, you must be completely unable to read tone. Why are you trying to shift the wagon off tchill? Mafdoc maybe? That makes sense as a role that can target scum and would make tchill paranoid about being tracked.

I'm conflicted because I'm gutreading ouroboros as town with just no skill. Like... I like that they're trying; they're reading the game and attempting analysis, which is much more than can be said for several other players so far.

hm, good point, i'm not used to scum protectives, so haven't considered that

Spoken as though he knows there is one. The mafdoc theory is looking more likely.

I'd like to call Ram and tchill as close to confscum as I've ever had on D1. This is amazing.

Wilky is a legendary tier information lynch at this point but meh I would rather lynch the person who is 90% scum vs the person who is like 70ish%

there's no way that character is scum. gtfo.

This seems like such an easy way to hop on to my wagon but brush your hands off any backlash once I flip town.

VOTE: Ramcius

Trust me, he's not flying under any radars here. I've got my eye laser focused on him. If I were playing solo, my vote would be on Ram.

Flavour Claim:

One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.

Is your

role

miller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.

The role is Commenwealth Miller with something else too. I didn't really want to full claim but there is more to my role.

I'm pretty sure yall don't have the exact role. Hes the scientist and you're the droid. If you've played the game, you'll recognize the flavor (I have, and do). At this point, if both of you are town, I'd suggest dropping this line of conversation.

Like at this point I think we know enough to at least know they're both Millers. I don't think they need to give up any more info unless they get out to L-1.

Yep. Alchemist is town as well, though I think that was obvious on page 2.

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

Meh. I think Nero Cain is a better player than that. Plus it would be so much easier to hop on the dave/wilky train, or tchill at this point in the game. Or even Ram as his wagon is ramping up here (page 9/10) as well. Though I think Ram has a super high probably of actually being scum, so... either way, there are other better options for scumNero to choose from than this silliness. Not saying he's town, as he's completely null for me at the moment, just that I think this post is wrong.

Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort?

I mean... it's possible... but is it probable? I don't really think so. Anyone with GIF meta re: jesters? I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be in a game like this.

Jingle says: GIF wouldn't put jester into this. He would use jester, but not for this.

I like Ventriloquist for town at this point as well, primarily for posts like 246

I think Ramcius scumflip heavily townspews Wilky and likely Tchill as well

Ok this is an interesting thought. Can you explain a bit what your thinking is on this? I don't know that I see an association via Ramcius right now.

Yall post too much.

Spoiler: ETL's responses pages 11-15

I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.

This is a very curious post. I don't understand the logic.

VOTE: Nero Cain

This seems good

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

VOTE: Nero

this is scum sheeping dumb town.

vote:Maria

I think I'm inclined to agree with you here.

He brought out the join date boys.

deflect

yep.
I think Nero is gaining town ferocity here. It looks good.

The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with

Uh.. ok but why do you disagree? I think his logic is sound.

nevermind you answered this question on the next page.

Am I the only person here who's SRing Wilky not because of what they claimed but for the way they did it?

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

It is literally the other way around on this for me. I am townreading Wilky because of the way he made his CC. Jingle says he can understand why you think about this the way you do, but we happen to disagree with you.

we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.

BINGO. I disagree with many of your initial conclusions, but you seem to be following the same thought process as me as the thread progresses.

Townreads

Tchill -

eh....

Davesaz -

sure

Alchemist21 -

yes

Hebichan -

eh.. ok.

Our slot obvobv -

yes

Lazy townreads

Dunnstral -

sure

I like this.

Why you comparing mine and Wilky wagons traction?

Very strong scumhunting technique. It seems you don't like it.

I was also considering putting Nero in lazy townreads pile ftr.

Yep. Agreed.

his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him

Yes exactly what I was thinking.

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

This sort of thing is what I'm worried about since the last game I played had a D1 VI lynch and I don't want to repeat that. That's why I asked Maria about him, to see if he's known to be a VI. But I still can't get over how his jump onto Wilky looked like he just wanted RC to stop pushing him. Do you think that's something Town Ramcius would do?

I just realised i can't change RC mind and going against him would ended in my own lynch, so i decided settle for my 2nd scumread and give RC his way. There are people i feel like arguing and there are people i try reason a bit and just give their way, if they seems unmovable.

As for VI, i disagree with that, it's just that people find my methods scummy or rather not up to this site meta and i get ML'ed way too often D1 to my liking.

Also, we played in Beneath the Mask, so you have some first hand experience with me and my methods

*SIGH* This is honestly a very genuine-sounding post from a player not accustomed to this site, which makes me doubt my scumread.

Holy shit that was a lot of pages to consume in one sitting. Ok, page 16:

The second quote is the one that really irks me though, coming in and asking about a specific player. I'd put my neck on the line now and say IF there was a Maria scumflip then Alch would most likely be scum too.

Can you walk me through your logic here? I don't quite follow.

How wagons build can be a good way to form reads through wagon analysis to. Granted wagon analysis isn't my strongest point though.

It is definitely one of my stronger points, so you're in luck there. Keep it up and I can help. So far I am in agreement with Ouro on the ram v. wilky wagons. Except Ram's 315 doesn't fit the narrative and that bothers me.

Oh boy, i don't think anyone believes there 2 scums in you, Dave and Tchill, so question is which one of you is scum? Dave is townread by majority, so i leave him out, as i did before, therefore it's you and Tchill. At this point i hope it's obvious, why you and Dave are millers, if Tchill is scum trying to use fuss caused by millers

I like this logic, and agree. Both Dave and Wilky are town imo, though the dave read is far less confident. Jingle strongly thinks tchill to be the scum in that bunch. Overall I agree but I just don't understand anything that tchill has been doing from either perspective.

IMPOSSIBEAR MindMeld ReadsList

Wilky - town
hebichan - ETL thinks town, especially if ram is scum.
Kaede Akamatsu - IC
ManWithNoName - town (for now, b/c jingle is paranoid)
MariaR - unknown - cannot read whether town or scum motivated posts. ETL thought scummy at first but Jingle thinks moonlogic posts are NAI.
Wraith - who?
Ramcius - at first highly convinced this was scum until post 315 now have no idea.
Ankamius - scum
Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells) - town
Tchill13 - scum
Dunnstral - mildly town
verylazy - ?
davesaz - mildly town
Ventriloquist - mildly town
Alchemist21 - town
Nero Cain -town
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE -

ETL SAYS: KILL IT WITH FIRE.

[Impossibear]

The train of thought from Impossibear on Wilky and Ram is a lot like my own. Can you talk to me more about the Maria/Nero interaction? Because we're seeing opposite things there.

I'm giving Ank a few hours to deliver on that promise for content and if they don't I'm moving my vote back there.

At first, I thought the argument Maria was making against Nero was kind of lame and suggested to me an ulterior agenda. Nero's reaction matched what I was thinking. I hadn't liked many of Maria's posts to begin with and Nero's posts came across to me like aggravated town.

After speaking with Jingle about that particular interaction, I agree with him that both sides are rather NAI. Jingle says that kind of logic is par for the course for Maria, and after thinking about it some more, I could see Nero having that reaction as either alignment. The aggressive tone of the reaction specifically could definitely come from scum, but I had been leaning more towards town on that as I originally felt.

In short, they're both actually pretty null as I can't decide if it's alignment-indicative at all now.

This wagon movement on Ventriloquist is kind of sketchy.

I agree. The tempo of the wagon is suspicious to me, considering Ventriloquist is kind of a non-entity.

ETL, if there's any way for me to make you feel more comfortable in this game, or my jokes funnier so that you can appreciate it, please let me know. I'm very sad that I failed to do my one single job of making people like you happy. Please, share with me how I can better serve you.

Mafia is srsbsns. I just don't find your shtick all that appealing. I'd rather you actually do something constructive.

@RC: Who is this joker?

Of course, if you're just scum trying to pull a fast policy mislynch on a meme alt that isn't even scum then rule the game because you're known to do that then go suck a chode :^)

I'll admit this made me chuckle.

there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.

I'm not following why we're discussing how many PRs are around...?

In general, not a fan of Wraith's posting

at all

. I can't quite put my finger on the words... forced? Fake. Specifically his comments about Kaede's claim.

Happy Scumday Ank!

While I appreciate the long-overdue attempt at content, there wasn't actually much "content" there, tbh. I'm gonna need more explanation on those reads, not just how strong they are.

Also, ETL, just as a quick note because this is directly relevant to me: how do you generally get your reads? I remember you being a fairly strong player but I want to get an idea as to why our general thoughts have been polar opposites this game.

I've actually posted about this in mafia discussion, but basically I prefer to townhunt first as scumreads take much longer for me to develop. The other reason is because being able to work together with your town reads makes for a very strong town that is tough to breakup outside of straight killing the members of the townblock, and can spell doom for the scumteam.

Which thoughts in particular are we "polar opposites" on? Let's talk about them.

I still lean townish on the overall analysis, but I want to get this sorted out sooner rather than later since it would do a lot to prevent me from gaining paranoia on your slot later in the game.

This excuse has been used against me by scum so many times it's getting quite old now. If you're genuinely paranoid about me, talk to me. Don't just use "paranoia" as an excuse to push a wagon on me without actual reasoning, cuz I'll tell you right now, I'll expose the shit out of that ruse.

I have very good reasons for wanting to lynch Ventriloquist

Jingle says you're actually quite good at scumhunting, but I'm going to need more than that. I don't understand the Ventriloquist wagon, and the speed of it makes me concerned.

Ugh... I'm only on page 18...? I'm gonna have to come back to this later.

ETL

[Impossibear]

VC 1.03

Tchill13 (4):

verylazy, Impossibear, davesaz, Wraith

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ouroboros (1):

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (2):

Ouroboros, hebichan

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE (1):

ManWithNoName

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Not Voting:

Ramcius

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

MWNN

's vote is probably the easiest, lamest copout vote I've seen all game. There's literally no content there. It's null af, especially considering how much other content there is to analyze so far. Lynching that slot would be a waste - let the vig take care of them.

Not feeling tchill anymore, tbh. I know Jingle really think he's scum, but 1) I really don't like the wagon company and 2) Wraith is worse.

VOTE: Wraith

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, MariaR

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Dunnstral, is this vote solely based on their interaction and nothing else? What about anything else going on in the thread?

p-edit: I have a life, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

If you ever call me a bitch again, not only will I replace out and blacklist you, but I will do everything in my power to get you banned for it. Don't do it again.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why not

This was re: post 427. I have several issues with this.

1) Saying "Very suspicious post" directed at a player that Ouroboros just voted, without any reasoning, or any vote for that matter, is just really really scummy.

2) Ouro is clearly the universal townread here, I don't really think there's any argument there, and Wraith comes in and sees that, and follows along to appear townie and to avoid Ouro's suspicion.

3) This post in particular comes off very fake to me, like it was an afterthought, like, oh I better explain myself before I cop heat for it. It's a survivalist mentality rather than simply providing his thoughts.

4) The content itself is not only vague but generalized. For instance:

He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.

- What was the leap in logic?
- Which two cases? Where is the example?
- What is the narrative he is painting?
- What is the assumption regarding Occam's Razor here?
- What is the WIFOM?

It's a bunch of buzzwords thrown in to look busy.

What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming?

He tries to make it look like these are the only two possibilities for tchill; it's a false dichotomy.

And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.

There was literally a VC two posts prior. Why does he need the VC? Why the feigned caution on a 2-man wagon?

I'll stay where I am for now but I'm definitely down to switch to a Vent wagon if it gains traction compared to a TChill wagon.

And this? It's D1, with 11 days left. This is just gross to me. We're not even close to that point in the game where compromise votes/wagons are a consideration.

Ouroboros

I need you to look at this slot please.

I will admit I agree with some of the observations about Ventriloquist that you made in 438, but I don't agree they necessarily come from scum. I think he's engaged you in a townie way and addressed your points on him, as well as discussed his thought process. I specifically don't think the shift from thinking a person acting weird may be a jester in a large theme, where the only thing newbies generally know of jesters is that they are explicitly not normal, is really all that scummy. Even I had that thought when it came to players like REALMEN. There's a difference between "weird/scummy" and "outrageously anti-town", which I could see as a thought process coming from Ventriloquist wrt tchill. Not to mention the fact that he didn't stand out at all until you started raving about him. Even looking more deeply into his responses yielded nothing but reinforcement of my intial read.

My primary concern here is the massive amount of support for the vent wagon that seems to be coming out of nowhere. And yet there's only a few actual votes on him... look at what is actually happening in the thread, Ouro.

Ank said he would vote him. Wraith said he would vote him. I'm not 100% on vent being town but I really don't see it as scum like you do, and Wraith is straight up scumtelling all over this game. Please look at him.

Also, (and I'm guilty of this pretty often myself and it always gets me into trouble), generating reads from associations before we've even had a single flip is just... bad. All I'm asking you to do is take an objective look at your reads and how they've been formed, and specifically, looking at Ventriloquist and Wraith on their own, minus MWNN. Until we have a flip, you cannot make these kinds of connections with any sort of accuracy.

I'm also not mandating that everyone sheep me because I'm super hot and sexy and wear cowboy boots, but I found the specific manner of your not doing so strange, feeling the need to point out that there were other lurkers, it's just a very strange way to approach the wagon.

But truly, this is the way I would expect people to try gelling with their townreads, by discussing what they don't agree with. Simply because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they are scum. The point I'm making here is that you've got yourself wound up in what is beginning to look like a huge confbias pre-flip association circle of deathtunnel, and I'm trying to get you to really evaluate your process so we can come to a consensus that is logical and makes sense.

if you agree with me that Ventriloquist is doing nothing and needs to start doing something

<snip>

Ankamius is several percentage points above

Ok but... Ventriloquist has done more thank Ankamius? Legitimately look at their ISOs together up to this post....

I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI.

Yes. Agreed. But like I said, if we have a vig, this should be there shot. What do we gain from lynching a slot that has offered no real information, with no associations, and no real reads to follow? Nothing. It's one of those slots that just needs to be erased because it's useless.

I can understand the reaction to my posting, by the way. I'm just going to have to be better going forward.

I still think Realmen is the best vote at this point in time. Ventriloquist can be on notice, but Realmen has actually been scummy (I will admit again, amusing) but scummy, overall.

You lost my vote of confidence with this post.

This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.

Agreed. I'm assuming by your vote that you believe this is explicitly

not

typical of his townplay?

Ventriloquist's post seem more like they care about keeping suspicion off themself instead of scumhunting and in a way that feels like scum that thinks it can reason itself out of being scumread.

Ok, maybe. I could see this line of reasoning. I personally didn't get that when I read his ISO. I'll re-review I guess. I'm trying to figure out why people are so gung ho about this wagon. Like, is it something you'd need to look really deeply to find? Because.. nothing stood out to me the way it apparently is for you and Ouro.

Either you don't remember me as well as you think you do or you're purposely ignoring the fundamental core of how I play the game.

And how exactly do you play the game?? You asked me about my process, I think it's only fair you discuss yours.

As for TRs, i never give those, unless someone do or say something that makes them locktown in my eyes, otherwise all my TRs are subject to change

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

This is a very simple thing to confirm. Has anyone done this yet? If not, and I have time when I finish catching up, I will see what I can find.

Honestly he kind of reminds me of zzzx, as far as how he understands the game (or misunderstands it, even). Can't tell how AI it is, but.. maybe I'm too trusting. I have a lot of townreads and I think I need help working through the list.

--end of 19--

ETL

REALMEN

You're wrong. Or scum. It's one of the two. If you're town, figure it the fuck out and get your shit together. Posting some weak ass reads list and then saying "ETL is scum" without an actual argument is bullshit and I'm not going to respond to nonsense.

Not only are you not providing any actual content, but you're poking a bear that you obviously know will make noise if you keep it up. To me that seems like you simply want to piss me off in order to distract from something going on in the thread.

You can fuck off.

[Impossibear]

Okay so I'm locking in here

Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum

VOTE: Ventriloquist

*sigh* Didyou even attempt to understand my post? I am trying to work with you.

Verylazy is town being wagoned by scum as a counterwagon to scum!Ventriloquist

The fact that people are defending him says a lot
Impossibear comes in with 'scared of wagon speed' even though I've been hard pushing them for days and have gotten absolutely zero results from anyone.
Also the fact that the way that Jingle talked about me as coming across as town with no skill is always a scumpost.

*sigh* Didyou even attempt to understand my post? I am trying to work with you.

I read all your posts, I just didn't get the things from it that you apparently wanted. You should have just bussed Ventriloquist.

i don't care anymore. i wasn't trying to get you to get anything. i was trying to discuss my reads with you.

whatever.

fuck off. jingle was clearly wrong about you. and i'm the one who said you had no skill. i see i was right. go away.

fuck off both of you. idiots.

towns these days are garbage. i don't know why i bother with discussion.

yep. i'm scum. you're so good at this game dude. i obviously never stood a chance

you don't know how to read me at all. do whatever the fuck you want. i'm done. bye

fuck off. jingle was clearly wrong about you. and i'm the one who said you had no skill. i see i was right. go away.

fuck off both of you. idiots.

towns these days are garbage. i don't know why i bother with discussion.

I told you, go /in for the Mini Theme game in queue, I'm not joking here.

FUCK. YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE. FUCK WISDOM AND FUCK MUFFIN. both players i've fucking blacklisted which you must know since you mentioned exactly them. jfc

Ours.

Ouro, I believe you are town. I also believe you are way off track here. When bad town starts running the game, it becomes clear that we have already lost.

I don't have the energy to deal with this, and it has completely killed my motivation to game solve. I tried to work with you. You didn't even

try

to discuss with me. You're so fucking focused on your narcissistic belief that you must be right, you are completely blinded to anything else. I hope you get over that sometime soon.

I'm honestly done reading this game. I was really excited about the flavor and especially once I got some solid town reads, but when your biggest town read refuses to even have a discussion, it's like hitting your head against a brick wall. I'm not interested in doing that.

ETL

[Impossibear]

sometimes even the best scum players get unlucky or get investigated

THEN INVESTIGATE ME.

[Impossibear]

Okay, reel talk.

I woke up to a post reading "I hate people" in the hydra PT this morning, so I'm gonna get to play things my way for a bit this afternoon. Jungle, feel free to call me whatever names you want.

I will most certainly be back in a few hours to make ranting and raving screaming noises at idiots. I'm sorry if you're one of the idiots, but while my minder is steamed I get these rare opportunities to be a dick.

The important bits first though.

ETL doesn't fakerage.

ETL rages as town and scum, but there is a difference.

ETL's two rages are very easy for SOMEONE WHO KNOWS ETL VERY WELL to pick apart. Good luck to the sorry sonofabitch who tries and doesn't know her.

Keeping ETL ragey but still decently engaged is an artform that I have spent days of RL time perfecting.

The good news though, is that this is a hydra slot. I will keep ETL from blowing up on you. I will keep ETL engaged. And I have never, not once, replaced out of a game of my own free will.

ETL, take ghost's advice and step back a minute. I'll be in the hydra PT for a couple hours this afternoon but I'm gonna be mobile til then.

Oh, and RC? Back the fuck off. I'm giving you space to work, extend me the same courtesy until I have the time to really dedicate to being useful. I don't want to turn this into another Heartless game, but if you piss of ETL IRL, I will take her side and this will become a shitstorm of epic proportions.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

It's fucking hilarious how these fools think they can meta read me when there's literally no one on site who can, much less someone who has played with me less than 1% of the games I've played.

If you were Antihero, maybe. Jingle, maybe. AP, maybe. Perhaps cabd because he's weird. None of you are those people. So don't pretend like you fucking know anything about me. I haven't played more than 4 games in the last year, and the last time I was truly active was nearly 2 years ago. Get over yourselves.

Yeah. I'm fucking amazing at scum. I'm also fucking amazing at town. That's great. If you're so afraid of me, lynch me or shoot me. Otherwise, leave me the fuck alone. Don't talk to me. Don't pretend you know me. Don't pretend you know my meta. Don't pretend meta doesn't change in 2 fucking years. But if you're going to actually try that lame bullshit, at least get it right. I've done literally zero of the things you all mentioned as "scumETL meta". Congratulations. You have done... nothing constructive.

You're both wrong and I think realmen has a good chance of actually being scum here trying to get rid of the strongest town player in this game.

Good fucking luck with that.

And for the record, I

am

better at scum than RC.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Kaede - IC

Strong Town

Alchemist, Ouroboros, wilky

Maybe Town

Ramcius
Ventriloquist

Unknown

davesaz
Dunnstral
hebichan
MariaR
Nero Cain
verylazy

Maybe Scum

Ankamius
tchill
MWNN
realmen

Strong Scum

Wraith

ETL

p-edit: Grade A posting.

[Impossibear]

realmen - stop fucking talking to me. I don't know who you are and I really don't give a fuck.

Ouroboros - are you asking me? If so, what does that even mean?

ETL

[Impossibear]

You claim best town player in this game.

Assuming I'm right and Ventriloquist flips scum, how should I interpret that flip as it pertains to your alignment?

Best town player != perfect reads.. When has that ever been a thing? But whatever.

You want to set up mislynches in advance for the scumteam, go ahead. '

So what if he flips town, then what? Can I give you shit for it?

ETL

[Impossibear]

i'm trying to work with you

No, you're not. You're trying to troll me.

Fuck off.

[Impossibear]

So... will this Ego battle end someday?

They asked me a fucking question. I answered it.

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

Since no one else wanted to actually look, I did. I only found the following as far as calling someone town, in a large theme where he replaced in, this was the only post containing a townread, and it was over 60 posts in.

Subject: Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

Gut says Desp town, probably go for Von tbh

Majiffy, i almost have more posts than you and i replaced in, so if that's your only "scumtell" on me, i pitty you, really

Subject: Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

@smith/Titus: Let me ask you two.. what makes Ram scummier than ZZZX or Socrates? What have they done (or haven't done) that he didn't (or did)?

The resistance to conftown for me. Socrates as scum (well the only place I have seen him), he was actually more active than this. I didn't like his outward hostility to me early.

Has Ramcius still been a stick in the mud regarding your conftown status?

a) Titus not conf town, but very close to it
b) i don't pushing or trying to interact with Titus at all, it's pointless to do so with her current status, only she wanting my head for some reason

Again, over 70 posts in, the first and only townread mentioned.

I don't feel like looking more as this seems to be just the way he posts. So... NAI.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Impossibear if you read my post there and those were the questions you felt were unanswered in it, I really don't know what to say. I really don't care to break down every little aspect of my grammar and syntax.

And also when I made the post GIF was editing in the VC. It was up after I submitted

I said nothing about your grammar or syntax. Read the post again and respond to my questions please.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Verylazy is town being wagoned by scum as a counterwagon to scum!Ventriloquist

What the fuck are you even talking about...? This was the votecount at the time of your post here... and one of the votes on verylazy is from the IC..????

Ventriloquist (2): Ouroboros, hebichan
verylazy (1): Kaede Akamatsu, MWNN

Like.. who is fearmongering now?

And you are bullying in a lynch way prematurely when I had a very large post directed at you that you didn't even bother responding to at all.

ETL

[Impossibear]

@Impossibear

- Bullet point your cases against these people? Especially Wraith please?

Maybe Scum

Ankamius
tchill
MWNN
realmen

Strong Scum

Wraith

Realmen sounds more like a policy vote/lynch IIRC and I believe one of the points you made against RMJ was that he threw out a reads list without explanation. Is this the same reason why Ank is in the "maybe scum" category as well? I recall that you did mention that about Ank.

Ghost

I already gave you a discussion post almost entirely regarding Wraith. Please read it.

Ankamius

is in the maybe scum category because he's doing fuck all but trying to make it look like that's not the case. It doesn't come across as "lazy town" but rather "cautious scum". He's a maybe because I'm not 100% familiar with his playstyle, but Alchemist, a very strong townread of mine, mentioned that being useless is kinda his thing. This doesn't really look like natural "uselessness".

tchill

is Jingle's read mostly. I'm kinda null on him.

MWNN

got on my radar with his post 450 where he tries to excuse his behavior, basically saying "I can see why people think I'm scummy". That kind of "self awareness" isn't really a town thing... He's also been flipflopping his votes all over the place and excusing it as "sheeping", and every single one of his reads is waffle-y, covered in "I could see this.... but" kind of statements.

realmen

isn't actually doing anything productive. I could understand a meme alt that memed but also contributed and did town-y things. This guy is just trolling me and trying to distract me from being effective here. That reads to me like not only scum who is familiar with me but scum who is afraid of me.

ETL

[Impossibear]

@GIF, A VC PLEASE?

[Impossibear]

UNOFFICIAL VC

Tchill13 (3):

verylazy, davesaz, Wraith

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (2):

wilky, Ventriloquist

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (4):

Ouroboros, hebichan, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, ManWithNoName, MariaR

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Ankamius (1):

Alchemist21

Wraith (1):

Impossibear

Not Voting:

[/area]

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

[/quote]

Ouro, are you really going to ignore the fact that both MWNN and Jungle flipflopped between both ventriloquist and verylazy with little to no real explanation? Or do you just not care who follows you as long as your strongarm lynch goes through? You talk about counterwagons but don't acknowledge the fact that there were multiple other players with more votes than verylazy at the time... and then scumread people who try to tell you that maybe you are not thinking clearly because it doesn't conform with your idea of being right... because right now it looks like ventriloquist is being wagoned by a stubborn towny and scum are happy to let it happen.

I hope you're not too blind to see that.

ETL

p-edit give it a rest man. if you don't like someone pointing out that your play is trash, do better or be quiet.

[Impossibear]

What I'm gathering, Ouroboros, is that you are townreading verylazy because there was 1 vote made on him between you deciding to wagon ventriloquist and you making that post. I'm gathering that you are scumreading me and MWNN simply because we disagree with you about ventriloquist, which, as it stands, MWNN doesn't have any real thoughts it seams, and is voting with you on vent in order to avoid your suspicion. I, on the other hand, legitimately reached out to you to discuss your read on ventriloquist, explain what I was seeing, and you dismissed it out of hand and decided I must be scum for it. So not only are you stubbornly insisting that you must be right on ventriloquist with NO CASE WHATSOEVER, but you've made pre-flip associative reads on people who disagree with you or are voting elsewhere, and treating those who are voting with you as though they are town.

Does this make any fucking town sense whatsoever?????

No. It doesn't. If you are town, fucking step out of your little bubble and be objective. Otherwise I'm honestly starting to question if you really are town here, or if you are totally aware of what you're doing because it fits your agenda.

ETL

p-edit:

[Impossibear]

Impossibear prob the closest to a policy lynch I've ever got

This is a new one lol...

Please. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you don't know me that well. If I really wanted to be an asshole, this would be a totally different game.

Do something productive instead of joining some imaginary bandwagon of "hate on ETL" because it's the popular thing to do.

[Impossibear]

You're just being a jerk when you told someone to stop doing said thing to you. I wouldn't ever jump on you because it's "popular" I don't know if you mean it or not but you're just being an outright jerk with your comments and it's rather sickening

I'm not being a jerk; I'm making observations. Ouro asked me why I'm scumreading MWNN, I answered, and he lashed out at me for it. I told him to, essentially, stop doing the things that made me scumread him if he didn't want me to scumread him. I don't see how that's "being an outright jerk". The difference is that Jungle straight up antagonized me. He didn't even make a case against me. He just tried to piss me off on purpose.

I told you to do something productive because complaining about me actually playing the game isn't productive when you've really not done much at all. You may not like the facts but my stating them isn't being "mean".

@Impossibear

- You seem to have missed my conversation with MWNN about his lynch pile. He did happen to explain why his vote flipped from verylazy to Ven.

Nice appeal to fear though.

omfg... what fear am I appealing to here??? I saw no concrete discussion from MWNN regarding his flipflopping, certainly nothing that was satisfying enough to justify it. But you just accepted it because it fit what you wanted to have happen. The fact that I disagreed with you about it now is suddenly "fearmongering". Honestly... what are you doing...? Not everyone who disagrees with you is "fearmongering scum". Arrogance is the path to destruction in this game.

Talk to me about about the shotgun spray of votes and how some people have dropped off the face of the earth. Looking at all the wagons, how does this reinforce your reads?

It looks to me like there are a lot of town wagons around, no one has really worked with each other enough to actually find real scum yet, and the largest wagon is made up primarily of so-called "sheep", rather than people who legitimately scumread ventriloquist. The VC tells me that

we have a lot more work to do yet today

and we are not ready for a lynch yet. The VC as it stands is not a great one for analysis. If vent were lynched right this instant, I wouldn't really have much to go on in terms of who the counterwagon actually is. The tchill wagon is so stale and there is no other actual wagon to analyze against the vent wagon.

Have you read the Wraith case, yet?

ETL

[Impossibear]

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

Yet, you still haven't given your reasons why.

So, does it not bother you that despite that fact, 4 other people are happily following you down that rabbit hole?

[Impossibear]

because right now it looks like ventriloquist is being wagoned by a stubborn towny and scum are happy to let it happen.

I hope you're not too blind to see that.

This is the appeal to fear that I'm referring to.

Ghost

I don't know what fear I'm appealing to. That is my honest observation.

[Impossibear]

@Ouro:

I don't know if appeal to fear is a thing. There is fearmongering, and appeals to emotion, neither of which I've done. I truly believe you have serious confbias going on and it legitimately pains me to watch. I want us to work together because Jingle believes RC can be really good, and putting our 4 heads together could be unstoppable. I don't understand the resistance to even evaluate your own play. It's a healthy thing to do and keeps you grounded as a town player. It's a damn necessity for accuracy. I see what I see the way I see it, and I also see what you see the way you see it because I've allowed myself to consider your POV, and I tried to express that to you, but you continue to ignore me and continue to believe there is some ulterior motive to getting you to act like an actual top tier scumhunter. What benefit does that have for scum? Just think, please. Use your head.

But you just accepted it because it fit what you wanted to have happen.

This implies that you think I have an agenda I want to push - me, Ghost, not RC.

So, in your opinion, what outcome did I want to happen?

Ghost

Yes, you want to lynch Ventriloquist because you believe he is scum. That is the agenda. Am I wrong?

Almost as if people can independently form reads that happen to line up with what another slot sees.

Ok so are you telling me that you strongly believe Ventriloquist to be scum, then? Because landing your vote on the day's largest wagon so far with a "meh" read doesn't really seem like something a town player would do at this point in the game.

I think verylazy is the best lynch today, still. But, I'm not going to go against a lynch of someone being scummy that an obvtown person is really pushing for. I've been accused of not working well with townreads in the past, and I am trying to work on that. I'm not going to fight a lynch on a probscum just because I'm reading someone as more scummy. We have to lynch them all at some point anyway.

Fine. I can understand this. You shouldn't stop scumhunting though, which is what it looks like has happened.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Jungle, talk to me a minute. How well do you know me? How well do you know ETL? Do you have a reason to believe you can read ETL?

[Impossibear]

see i don't want to push ETL anymore because she's doing the exact thing that RC does as town (and sometimes as scum) which is literally

"you are scumreading me and you are trying to piss me off and I can't stand a push on me and im so mad so if you push me i will powerlynch you"

I don't want to deal with this then end up having ETL town


i'm still down to MANwagon verylazy

Scared. Scum.

If you actually knew me at all and knew how to read me, you'd be doing more than this cautious bullshit, and if you were actually town, you'd be trying to figure me out instead of just pissing me off.

And stop fucking comparing me to RC. We're not the same person and using his tells to read me is utter fucking bullshit. Not to mention the cowardice of hiding behind this lame alt and claiming some kind of knowledge of me in order to gain the confidence of other people in the thread. You clearly know nothing at all.

And for the record, I'm not pissed because I'm being scumread, that comes with the territory. I'm pissed because you're a jackass who is deliberately seeking to irritate me.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Aight. I'll work on reading you. FWIW, I'm not sure that we're worth the investigate, but I'll take conftown status if someone wants to give it to us. You should know that ETL will obvtown eventually if town. It's how she do. I'd far prefer they use it on RC or an actually unreadable slot. You clearly don't have the experience to get her to rage read level, so your best bet is going to be to leave her to her devices and see what falls out when she's got her feet under her.

I think I've got her calmed down enough to the point that she's not hatebonering for your lynch, but I'd REALLY suggest against making a meme alt to mess with her. She despises alts who try to meta read her and will not respond well. I think I have enough information to figure out your identity. I will do so over the weekend, and decide whether your progression makes sense for the level of knowledge you actually have on her. I don't out secret alts without permission as a rule, so you have my word that whatever I come up with will remain a secret, but I WILL use the information to read you if I can. At the moment, assuming my read of your familiarity with ETL is correct you're probably town. If you're either FAR more familiar or FAR less, that's pretty much the opposite.

I think I've also talked her out of running to your house tonight with pitchforks and torches for the lols of it.

Tchill is pretty much lockscum, imo. I'm genuinely considering proxying our vote to RC in exchange for that wagon today. In either case,

@RC: First, I'm sorry for inning despite saying I wouldn't. ETL asked me to hydra and I didn't notice you on the playerlist. I'm actively going to try to prevent this game from being toxic because I respect you as a person and I REALLY don't want to have to deal with the emotional rollercoaster that was KH. I'd like to ask you to let me know if I do anything to piss you off, and I will afford you the same courtesy. Who knows, maybe we can prove to each other that we CAN be civil in a game for once.

Haven't had the time to go over ETL's wraith case, but she seems really confident and is concerned that no one's voting there with her, so I need to check for dogthoughts and get back to her on that.

People who think ETL is an asshole are hilarious, and clearly haven't ever played with a real asshole.

RC has a not a case on a player, to the surprise of literally no one, and a pile of sheeps following. I'll ISO and figure that shit out ASAP.

Anything else I need to actually give a shit about while I have the time?

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

VC 1.04

Tchill13 (2):

verylazy, davesaz

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (3):

wilky, Ventriloquist, Alchemist21

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (6):

Ouroboros, hebichan, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, ManWithNoName, MariaR, Wraith

verylazy (1):

Kaede Akamatsu

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Wraith (1):

Impossibear

Not Voting:

None

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

@GIF, A VC PLEASE?

Morning shift is a terrible thing.

Let me know if I missed anything. That was a lot of pages to count.

RC. LOOK AT THIS VC. SERIOUSLY. How can you be so oblivious???

[Impossibear]

Aight. I'll work on reading you. FWIW, I'm not sure that we're worth the investigate, but I'll take conftown status if someone wants to give it to us. You should know that ETL will obvtown eventually if town. It's how she do. I'd far prefer they use it on RC or an actually unreadable slot. You clearly don't have the experience to get her to rage read level, so your best bet is going to be to leave her to her devices and see what falls out when she's got her feet under her.

I think I've got her calmed down enough to the point that she's not hatebonering for your lynch, but I'd REALLY suggest against making a meme alt to mess with her. She despises alts who try to meta read her and will not respond well. I think I have enough information to figure out your identity. I will do so over the weekend, and decide whether your progression makes sense for the level of knowledge you actually have on her. I don't out secret alts without permission as a rule, so you have my word that whatever I come up with will remain a secret, but I WILL use the information to read you if I can. At the moment, assuming my read of your familiarity with ETL is correct you're probably town. If you're either FAR more familiar or FAR less, that's pretty much the opposite.

I think I've also talked her out of running to your house tonight with pitchforks and torches for the lols of it.

ETL claimed "strongest town player in the game", which, MAN to man, I agree with. second to, only, the MAN of course. to get such a slot conftown, who could pass up such an irresistible offer ?!?!

well yeah, thats why such a meme alt doesnt exist. yet.

i'll take your word for it and honor it like a MAN. though, good luck with that, i've already revealed more than i needed or intended to when i signed up for this game for the most part.


no shit i'm town. though i will not confirm nor deny any guesses

Assuming the assumptions I've made are correct, I know who you are. I'd put that at roughly 70%.

Neither ETL or I are easy mislynches in the first few days, so there's little chance we'll be lolwagoned. At some point in the near future, we will be a universal townread for reasons beyond the comprehension of mortal minds. And then, between that point and LYLO, we will be killed in the night by cowards. All of this you can treat as fact, and if we fail to show results you can yell at me later.

I'd much rather someone who I'm not 100% sure will resolve themselves before LYLO get copped, preferably RC so I can avoid the paranoia over that slot, but really we're the fifth worst cop target in the thread.

In other news, a deadline just moved up by a week unexpectedly, so I'm going to be noticeably absent for at least the next couple of days. This is compared to my unnoticeable absences that will happen the rest of the game. Not gonna declare V/LA, because ETL should be able to handle this til the weekend and I'll be able to post at least once on each of Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully next week will be back to normal.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

Sorry to disappoint, Raybells, but that's not gonna work this game.

1st of all, ETL doesn't know you, so expecting her to put faith in your reads is frankly the stupidest response you've had in years.
2nd of all, if you're wrong on Vent, I want you to promise me you'll take a long and hard look at Tchill. I went back and saw something that might imply Ventscum->Tchilltown, so I'm personally fine with flipping Vent first, but I'm waiting on ETL to read the post I just left her in our PT to make sure we're in agreement. If so, she can post what I think you saw wrt Vent and play along today.
3rd of all, if you're right on Vent, who else (other than me, obv) is scum?
4th, I'm gonna quote you in the postgame and laugh my ass off when you publicly admit you can't read me worth shit.

Now I'm legit going to do work. If I log back into ms tonight, someone shoot me.

[Impossibear]

ETL you have displayed absolutely zero respect for my reads earlier, my scumread on Ventriloquist or my own ability to look into the wagon.

@RC:

First of all, I'm not really sure what makes you think you deserve any kind of respect from me or anyone until you've earned it, which you haven't. Secondly, I absolutely did. I discussed all of your reads, both those I agreed with and those I didn't. If I had zero respect for you, I'd ignore you completely and dismiss everything you said. Instead I attempted to work with you. Not only that, but if you had shown any indication of evaluating the wagon and evaluating your read, rather than stubbornly calling people who disagree with you scum, I might have an inkling of respect for your ability to look into the wagon. As it stands, you get none now, because you haven't shown that you deserve it.

To be quite frank with you, after this arrogant display of yours, I have no interest in speaking with you further. This is simply a choice on my part to reduce the amount of aggravation from playstyle differences. Please do not address me. Thanks.

ETL

[Impossibear]

down to wagon this as well^

But I'm scum, aren't I? And Wraith is my top scum read. So explain this disconnect, especially considering my number rule as scum is "never fucking bus". Shows how well you know me.

ETL

[Impossibear]

You know it's a good sign for the town when players are more concerned with figuring out hydra/alt identities than scum.

Are you even reading the same game?

Yeah, there's only so much I care to comment upon

Why is this not dead yet?

[Impossibear]

I backed off on Ventriloquist because I regretted actually showing that scumread because I wanted to see how he'd develop without me doing anything.

I later decided I was sure enough that he was scum and I just went for it.

Easy to say after the fact.

I'd like more from you, please.

ETL

[Impossibear]

VC 1.05

Tchill13 (2):

verylazy, davesaz

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (2):

wilky, Ventriloquist

Nero Cain (2):

Dunnstral, Ramcius

MariaR (1):

Nero Cain

Ventriloquist (6):

Ouroboros, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE,

ManWithNoName

,

MariaR

,

Wraith

, Alchemist21

ManWithNoName (1):

Ankamius

Wraith (2):

Impossibear, Kaede Akamatsu

Not Voting:

hebichan

With

18

alive,

10

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-20 12:33:41)

Yep. Totally a wagon on scum. I've never seen such blatant bullshit. The underlined players are the most suspect on this one.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Who all is here in the thread right now? I'd like to have a chat.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Hello!

Ank, I'm glad you're here too. I wanted to go through the post you gave me discussing where our reads misalign. Let me go grab it....

Nero, where do you currently stand as far as your top two town reads and top two scum reads, not including the IC?

[Impossibear]

Ok, while I go through the rest of these, here's the first bit:

Early Alchemist Posts: A big source of my scumread on Alchemist came from these posts, actually. I'm not liking the way he came out onto the miller point so fast after the game started; I especially do not like his answer to Ghost regarding davesaz' play since I don't remember him ever being particularly active or a big player in the game he's in; him specifically focusing on him not being scum pings in light of that. I really didn't like #21 either.

Ok, so, my impression of Alchemist's first vote was RVS-ish. He'll have to confirm that or not. The fact that he moved it to Ouroboros pretty quickly tells me he wasn't that committed to it in the first place, especially after thinking about it for a bit, which it looks like given the explanation in 9.

Regarding the bit about Dave being active or not, I'm confused because Alchemist's response says that Dave

doesn't

post as much. Did I miss something there?

What didn't you like about 21?

[Impossibear]

Jingle regardless of your alignment you know that all you'll do is shit up the game

This is really rude and uncalled for. Reporting this.

[Impossibear]

If I have to contest Impossibear and make this a bloodbath I will do so and I will win.

If you continue to make this personal, I will just leave so you can abuse the next player in this slot. The fact that Jingle even had to go out of his way to try and accommodate your abusive ass is far more than you deserve. Trust me when I say that if you continue to ruin this game for people, I will make it my personal mission to rid the site of you.

Real talk.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Early Kaede+MariaR Interactions: Opposite reaction here too; this is where my MariaR townread started, specifically #35; something about the early miller talks feels way off and I liked the attempt to push discussion away from that.

Jingle is actually in agreement with you on that, and since my first post on the interaction, I have her as pretty null. I like your point about trying to push discussion elsewhere. I do think if both millers are town, scum would benefit greatly from using it to justify votes/lynch options.

Alchemist #63: This is a big one; Alchemist hit a huge scumvibe with this post, although primarily combined with his #55 (which I independently found scummy). Alchemist hasn't felt genuine in these posts at all, I've been getting posturing vibes off these posts if anything.

I think 55 is pretty null... Talk to me about what pinged you on 63. Is it just the speculation re: scum miller or is there something else?

ETL

[Impossibear]

Wilky and Dunn

Maria and Hebi

Ok, I agree with you 100% on Wilky. Dunnstral I initially thought was town on the surface. Further evaluation notched him at null just because I don't really know. Is that a gut read for you or is there something specific that made you feel that way about him?

I understand your Maria read. Talk to me a bit about hebichan?

ETL

[Impossibear]

I reiterate my strongly worded request that they be lynched tomorrow

regardless of anything else

that happens.

Don't blow investigative powers

if we have any on them, just get rid of them.

What this post tells me is that it doesn't matter if we're town, or if vent is town, all that matters is that vent is lynched and that we are lynched. Who's being obstinate now, honestly?

Vent will probably filp town, I'm going to go ahead and put that down as a hard read. Continuing to clutch onto bad reads despite all evidence to the contrary is ignorant and bad. Attempting to set up future mislynches on bad information and a stubborn read, is ignorant and bad.

All of this is moot at this point because it will be proven before too long and someone will indeed have to eat some crow and reevaluate. I doubt that person has the maturity to apologize or admit when wrong, but a fool can always hope that people will redeem themselves.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Before I leave for the day, I would like to ask for the case on Ventriloquist.. like the actual case.. because as far as I can tell... there hasn't been one, and I'd like to mention that cases made AFTER the suspicion are confirmation-seeking rather than scumhunting. For a wagon that has 6 votes on it, you would think there'd be something concrete there.

ETL

p-edit: Ank - thanks for getting back to me on that. I'm walking out the office right this moment, and probably wont be back to this thread until tomorrow. I will read and respond first thing though.

[Impossibear]

Are we going to tunnel Vent for the rest of the day?

seems so.

I no longer have any will to fight with RC's ego. I honestly, truly, don't give a shit about this game anymore. I've given my thoughts, and if RC wants to run it into the ground, so be it. I'm not enjoying this game any longer, so.. *shrug*

ETL

[Impossibear]

One very loud voice and a lot of quiet or moderate voices is a very weak town, yes.

I think what you mean to say here is actually, "One loud voice stomping all over everyone else and not letting anyone else contribute anything of value."

But yeah.

[Impossibear]

worst wagon ever. what analysis can even be done with no counterwagon? completely scum motivated. actually starting to think ouroboros might be scum the way this day went down.

really really.. just gross.

ETL

[Impossibear]

if there's an investigation in this bunch, please do check us because i'd much rather deal with RC as conftown than have to put up with even more BS tomorrow. especially if vent actually flips scum, i told jingle if that's the case i will probably just sub out because i dont want to deal with anymore disgusting abusive garbage.

ETL

[Impossibear]

ETL has asked for invests several times and could be godfather, don't waste an invest unles sits a role cop

*sigh*

we are confirmable beyond an investigation, just fyi....

god... you are so thickheaded. you can't even fathom the possibility you could be wrong...

i straight up hate you dude.... like, you don't get it. i tried actually working with you because your slot was my strongest townread. you didn't bother to even respond to most of what i gave you. you talk about respect, but give none. i gave you plenty of respect. discussed all your reads. tried to work out where we differed. you refused to even consider that you might not be fucking perfect. instead, continually throwing potshots my way, deliberately trying to get under my skin, it's just uncalled for, and then to sit there and just keep doing it... it's so frustrating.

i dont even know what to say anymore.

you have ruined this game for me.

and the amount of frustration i have held back in an attempt to KEEP TRYING TO WORK WITH YOU despite your stubborn nonsense, and still not even given an inch, like grow the fuck up. you are not infallible. you are not a god-tier scumhunter. neither am i. but the difference between us is that i recognize i could be wrong.

you have helped us lynch a townie, that is what i think. you didn't give anyone else a chance to make a case for anything. you kept shutting everyone down. that is not how town work together.

us... sorry...

[Impossibear]

you have helped us lynch a townie, that is what i think. you didn't give anyone else a chance to make a case for anything. you kept shutting everyone down. that is not how town work together.

and i asked for a case, and you basically said no. we're not the only players in the game that would have benefited from it, especially if you truly felt you had caught scum and had proof, like share with the class...

but then the case, as far as I can tell was "post times and formatting"....

anyway i guess it doesn't matter now but we should have discussed and you should have let people do that. just because you have the ability to ramrod people into doing what you want doesn't mean that's what's best for the town wincon.

ETL

p-edit: give it a rest MAN. all you're doing is degrading my read on you further down the scumline.

[Impossibear]

and what's even more ridiculous, RC, is that our reads lined up almost exactly with the exception of, obviously, myself, vent and one or two other reads from what i remember. i told jingle that in the hydra pt, and expressed how frustrating it was to not be able to work with someone who clearly is seeing a lot of the same things i am.

ETL

[Impossibear]

sacrificing my win equity for a healthy gamestate

there are plenty of players on this site who manage to rally the town to their side without being bullheaded and antagonizing. trust me, i used to be bullheaded and antagonizing myself, and i still get that way sometimes because my emotions override my thought process but it is possible to keep it in check and still get the game moving where you want it to. i have done a lot to maintain that in myself because i know how easy it is to be that way. i am strongwilled and stubborn and outspoken IRL too.. it does not always work out very well and rubs people the wrong way. it took a lot of work to tone that down while still achieving the results i was seeking. i am sure you can do the same.

consider this a reachout... regardless of our alignments, i'd like to make this a pleasant experience going forward...

ETL

[Impossibear]

Cool.

VOTE: Dunnstral

There's a vote number 3, I'm happy to switch votes if any other wagons are a better choice, but we should probably get the prereqs for copping us out of the way.

In other news, we're now likely the nightkill, so I'm going to outright say we used our night power last night, have no reason to believe it was messed with, and got no usable results. If we get shot, that should clear some things up that don't need to be discussed until then.

[Impossibear]

Should go without saying that anyone else hammering is a scumclaim.

[Impossibear]

Ooooh. Wait a minute.

RC, vote the scummiest person in your opinion. They self vote, we get vote three. That way, scum has to quickhammer a decent lynch to prevent our being daycopped and there's a decent chance they had to quickhammer scum.

[Impossibear]

UNVOTE:

RC can even pick wagon comp for the wagon to mitigate chances of scum being able to quickhammer. Refusal to cooperate is distinctly antitown and thus a scumclaim, we get the first half of our requirements out of the way, and we don't have to let this quest influence the day game for the rest of the day.

Then we avoid L-1 until ETL or I can quickhammer. It makes it almost impossible for scum to manipulate this against us.

[Impossibear]

For clarification, scummiest player other than realmen. If this is a legitimate daycop, I don't see that as a scumrole and we probably shouldn't let scum quickhammer it, and if it isn't we've probably already won the game.

Feel free to require that Realmen be on the wagon prior to L-1 though.

[Impossibear]

Well, can't speak for Jungle but I was literally on it to be vote #3.

And then I realized that this minigame can be more easily solved.

I'd assume the other people think he's scum for some reason, but I'd have to read the game to know for sure, and that's what ETL is here for.

Dammit ETL, stop altslipping.

[Impossibear]

I'm here but I need to connect with Jingle. We are in opposite time zones so that will happen later today. Can confirm we received a quest but got no details of what it was - only that we got a quest. Hoping RMOJ is being honest here cuz the confirmation would be fantastic. I do have serious reason to believe we won't make it to tomorrow though, unfortunately.

Flavor-wise, I think I know what that means for RMOJ. Most annoying character in the game but he might as well be conf-town.

ETL

[Impossibear]

UNVOTE:

RC can even pick wagon comp for the wagon to mitigate chances of scum being able to quickhammer. Refusal to cooperate is distinctly antitown and thus a scumclaim, we get the first half of our requirements out of the way, and we don't have to let this quest influence the day game for the rest of the day.

Then we avoid L-1 until ETL or I can quickhammer. It makes it almost impossible for scum to manipulate this against us.

Hey butthead... it has to be reflected in the VC for it to count. How else is GIF gonna confirm we completed the quest...

ETL

[Impossibear]

RMOJ DID YOU CHOOSE TO GIVE TO IT US?

bah. sorry for slip/caps.

And I mean as opposed to someone else?

ETL

[Impossibear]

Meaning was it your choice and not random or something else?

[Impossibear]

RMOJ DID YOU CHOOSE TO GIVE TO IT US?

YES

It is apropos.

[Impossibear]

Hey Ouro - can we discuss reads?

ETL

[Impossibear]

Also how familiar are you with the game? We are thinking RMOJ is definitely town - we received the message from the mod re: the quest, and I can't think of a single mental leap that makes that character aligned with the institute.

ETL

p-edit: Ok, how are you feeling about these people? They are weaker reads for us. I've basically scrapped our entire readslist from yesterday.

Maria
tchill
ramcius
verylazy
dunnstral

We think the game

might

be solveable if the claims are all real.

[Impossibear]

Ok, we will leave Maria to you to sort for now. We have literally no idea. I also think Ram is likely town, based on some of his reactions, but I go back and forth on that. Jingle still thinks tchill is probably scum. What are you seeing there that makes you think more on the town side of null than on the scum side?

I'll probably have more questions for you on your thoughts in a bit - we are going over the list right now. Not sure if it's because of the break or what but my brain is empty on a lot of them. Like, I have feelings but I don't know if I can trust them.

tchill - who did you hide behind last night and why?

ETL

[Impossibear]

i can see why other 4 on the list, they kinda lurkers, but why you put me there? Also, i'm always available to talk, well, as long as you don't try tricks on me, then i might get little unpleasant

You're not easy to read. There are posts you make that look towny and then you say things that make me question what side you're really on.

ETL

[Impossibear]

my Badge of ETL Approval

"Badge of ETL's Approval"

Badge of ETL's Approval

Am I supposed to understand what this means?

sorry ETL i've been an ass

RMOJ - it's fine. I'm an ass a lot of the time.

ETL

[Impossibear]

btw, wilky needs to self vote so we can vote him for the quest.

[Impossibear]

VOTE: wilky

Third now, right?

ETL

[Impossibear]

Oh didn't realize that was for us. Yes you can, though they are currently merged in our doc. I'll post mine and let you know which ones are Jingle-influenced, and he can post his when he gets back online.

TOWN

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Kaede Akamatsu

PROBABLY TOWN

Nero Cain (jingle read)
Davesaz
Ouroboros
Ankamius (jingle read)

MAYBE SCUM

Wilky

SCUM

Tchill13 (jingle read)

We are still sorting these:

these are essentially the "no idea" group
hebichan - i think scum
MariaR - scummy vibes
Wraith
Ramcius
Dunnstral
verylazy
Alchemist21 - i thought town, no idea now

We only got through a few before he left so I'm thinking we'll mindmeld again tomorrow. I'm leaving work in about 20 minutes. While I'm here, do you have any questions about any of these?

ETL

[Impossibear]

Do you still think Wilky is super locktown tonally like you said earlier in the game?

Tonally... I still think his counterclaim was towny-sounding. Today's posts? I dunno. I have a specific reason for believing he is worth a lynch that doesn't have to do with tone though.

ETL

p-edit: What are you even talking about....

[Impossibear]

Do you honestly think it's impossible for someone to acknowledge that a read isn't very strong at all while still feeling they lean one way or the other?

ETL

[Impossibear]

I mean, if you don't know what I'm talking about, maybe read your own reads list.

Otherwise, its pretty obvious you're just making things up as you go along here.

Ok.

[Impossibear]

A bit more to give you an idea how influenced these particular ones are:

PROBABLY TOWN
Nero Cain (jingle read) - I would put this in the "no idea" category if I were solo
Ankamius (jingle read) - I think town-ish... ish. Jingle is probably more confident on this one than I am.

SCUM
Tchill13 (jingle read) - this would also be a "no idea" read for me but with a scum-lean.

ETL

[Impossibear]

I specifically want wilky on his own L-1 wagon so that he can't selfhammer.

[Impossibear]

VOTE: dunnstral

NOW we're third

[Impossibear]

If ank or ouroboros unvote before the next VC we will consider it a deliberate attempt to sabotage the quest.

[Impossibear]

Just wait til the next VC...? Is that so hard?

[Impossibear]

Ok... he doesn't have to. It doesn't say that has to be the lynch target. Just that we have to be recorded as 3rd on a wagon

[Impossibear]

Oh.

[Impossibear]

This is gonna be more difficult than I thought. That's why jingle wanted the L-1 to self vote pre-L-1

[Impossibear]

Why are you voting him if you don't actually want to lynch him? Just cuz you were mad?

[Impossibear]

Ok. I'm dumb I guess. Jingle is good at this stuff. I'll let him handle the vote for today.

[Impossibear]

ok. VOTE: wilky

[Impossibear]

Ouro - is wilky read independent of ventriloquist or associated?

[Impossibear]

wilky

[Impossibear]

Will you indulge me in revealing some information

[Impossibear]

All I want is the initials of your flavor name. If you feel that is too much, just give me the last one.

[Impossibear]

Thank you. That clears up a lot, for us anyway.

UNVOTE:

[Impossibear]

Thank you. That clears up a lot, for us anyway.

UNVOTE:

You just removed your vote off of me before the vote count.

Not sure how the votes look but that takes away that part of your quest right?

In order for it to count, it would need to be reflected on a VC as the third vote on a wagon that is at L-1.

That's the way I understood it.

[Impossibear]

Ahh shit yeah, I forgot about the bit that specified an L-1 wagon too.

I guess that makes more sense for me selfvoting as I was strictly taking it as me not self hammering.

Me too. I'm gonna leave it up to Jingle to coordinate the votes. Haven't seen him around all day so I'm hoping we'll connect tomorrow. I know RC wanted his individual reads list as well.

Besides the hydrae and RMOJ, who's your strongest townread?

ETL << sorry forgot to be signing these today

[Impossibear]

@Ouroboros:

Humor me for one moment and assume the following as true:
RMOJ, Kaede, Impossibear, Wilky, Dave conftown.

Given this information and the vent scumflip, who is his most likely partner?

I'm asking because I believe you clearly saw more in vent's ISO than I did, which gives you better insight into who is related there. Also because I am much better at townhunting than anything else, and I am very confident on the above. However, I don't even know where to begin with Vent, so if I could use your brain with my townreads, that would give me a good place to look deeper.

ETL

[Impossibear]

ETL said someone wanted my reads list for some reason.

Mechanically town:

Kaede Akamatsu
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Probtown by Claim:

davesaz

Probscum by Claim:

Tchill13

Probtown by play:
Ankamius
Ouroboros
Alchemist21
Nero Cain

Pile I Don't Really Care About Yet and thus am cool with lynching:
Wilky
hebichan
MariaR
Wraith
Ramcius
Dunnstral
verylazy

Of those, Wilky is supposedly decently flavored to be town according to ETL, but I am unconvinced. I saw some PR hunting tells from wraith I think, but they weren't strong enough that I cared about pushing them. I'm fairly certain that Maria is a player I will never be convinced is town, so I'm happy to sheep you there for now. And I've been devoting almost 0 thought to the game, so I don't really have reads at all on the rest.

[Impossibear]

As far as wagon comp for fulfilling the quest, RC off wagon, preferably.

Kaede offwagon for sure.

Jungle on wagon early.

How many replacements are pending? Shouldn't try to pull it off until that's dealt with, just in case we get a lolhammer player.

Ramcius, if you're on and cool with helping to get either 2 conftown or a confscum tomorrow, vote yourself.

We should use FOS system for tracking votes until we've dealt with that, so no one should legitimately vote until I've manufactured a fake wagon.

RC, if there's anyone on the player list who would lolhammer as town, let me know so we can force them to be early votes.

[Impossibear]

Pseudo Vote Count

wilky (3):

MariaR, Ouroboros, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Dunnstral (2):

Ankamius,

Kokichi Oma (2):

Dunnstral

Ankamius (2):

Ramcius, Wraith

Impossibear (1):

hebichan

Ramcius (1):

wilky

Not Voting:

Tchill13, Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Alchemist21, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz, Impossibear

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

I'll do this at least once per day. Until we've gotten a L-1 wagon with us as participant 3, don't actually vote. Use bold tags with FOS or pseudovote, and I'll catch em.

VOTE: Ramcius

[Impossibear]

Wilky, don't unvote.

[Impossibear]

Okay, best bet for wagon comp.

Wilky
Ramcius
Impossibear
Nero Replacement
hebi replacement
Jungle
Kokichi
Maria

RC, if there's anyone who is significantly likely to lolhammer as town that I missed in that pool, update the pool replacing that person in for someone not likely to do so. I'm including the replacements to account for a Not_mafia replace in, and Jungle needs to be on the list for the chance that this is a scum gambit. No one else should vote until this is dealt with, hence my offer to run an FoS counter.

[Impossibear]

One more thing, before I check out of the thread for the day.

I don't think we were shot last night, which means that there is probably a full protective in the thread. Whoever that is should not claim today. They should target between Jungle, Kaede and RC tonight.

This is because we are a bulletproof gated vig. Talking about the specific gating of our vig is not useful for town, but we shot MWNN yesterday. Additionally, our role PM STRONGLY implies the existence of a scum protective/kill evasion role. Hence, Tchill is probably scum.

Sorry for claiming without permission, ETL, but I really don't think we were the nightkill last night. In any case where we weren't this is crazy high positive utility for town.

[Impossibear]

i don't know the flavour of this game given that I've never played it but I do know that wilky is scummy by play and GIF is the type of person to make a change here + setup stuff sooo yeah

That's fine and understandable. Jingle and I discussed that as well. I'm still interested in your input given my townreads, if you wouldn't mind.

[Impossibear]

One more thing, before I check out of the thread for the day.

I don't think we were shot last night, which means that there is probably a full protective in the thread. Whoever that is should not claim today. They should target between Jungle, Kaede and RC tonight.

This is because we are a bulletproof gated vig. Talking about the specific gating of our vig is not useful for town, but we shot MWNN yesterday. Additionally, our role PM STRONGLY implies the existence of a scum protective/kill evasion role. Hence, Tchill is probably scum.

Sorry for claiming without permission, ETL, but I really don't think we were the nightkill last night. In any case where we weren't this is crazy high positive utility for town.

why shot MWNN?

Because vent scum flip. At that point didn't know what to do so followed Ouroboros advice.

ETL

[Impossibear]

if I didn't misinterpret twilight I could have probably given both clearer and better shot directions but

Wilky is the ultimate information lynch that this game has to offer and I'm pretty sure he's scum by play so I see zero reason to go elsewhere rn

i understand that. i'm not asking you to go anywhere else. just give me your thoughts based on the information i gave you. it's important to me.

etl

[Impossibear]

@Ouroboros:

Humor me for one moment and assume the following as true:
RMOJ, Kaede, Impossibear, Wilky, Dave conftown.

Given this information and the vent scumflip, who is his most likely partner?

I'm asking because I believe you clearly saw more in vent's ISO than I did, which gives you better insight into who is related there. Also because I am much better at townhunting than anything else, and I am very confident on the above. However, I don't even know where to begin with Vent, so if I could use your brain with my townreads, that would give me a good place to look deeper.

ETL

tchill - who did you hide behind last night and why?

ETL

I would very much appreciate responses to these, please.

@ETL

a little bit of flawed logic for insta-clearing wilky there.

yes his flavor checks out but it could just be his MANLY SAFECLAIM given by the game host

Yeah I know fake claims exist. So? First of all, what motivates a scum miller to not only claim the way he did but counter dave the way he did?

If there's a wilky case, I'd like to hear it. As of right now, I've read nothing - not even just something convincing, literally nothing about why he's scum. This is looking like it's going to be another RC-rams-his-opinion-down-everyone's-throat day, and I'm not interested in that.

I'm pretty sure someone can clear wilky very easily. They should do that.

tchill on the other hand... why the fuck does anyone think that slot is town??

ETL

[Impossibear]

@Ram - I think you've misunderstood those quotes. It reads to me like Wraith is saying he's assuming none of the claims made at the time were false, not that the mod failed to provide safeclaims at all.

[Impossibear]

Re: Wilky's flavor - I happen to be very familiar with the games. As in, I spend far too much time with Bethesda games in general. When Wilky first claimed and provided a tidbit about what he was - "a prototype synth", I knew exactly who he

could

be. I wanted

him

to confirm that for me or not.

He confirmed it for me. For the same reason that RMOJ is conftown, so is wilky, to me at least. It doesn't matter what anyone says about "yeah but mods do this and mods that with flavor" there's no fucking way in hell that character is ever aligned with the institute in any universe whatsoever, and there are no other institute-aligned "prototype synths".

So there.

ETL

[Impossibear]

what? weren't you the one who wanted wilky dead? or maybe i misremembered

anyway, it's tough for me to follow the 180 but i'm okay with a dead tchill or verylazy

The

only

reason I was even considering the possibility of wilky being scum is because of RC. I gave him the benefit of the doubt on this one, but it doesn't pan.

p-edit:

YEAH OK BUT THEN WHY COUNTER DAVE?

[Impossibear]

You're telling me GiF used that character for a SAFECLAIM and not a REAL PLAYER ROLE? Really...???

p-edit: fine whatever I don't care. I clearly have no support in this game.

[Impossibear]

There's a limit to how much WIFOM I'm willing to take on. You gotta stop the paranoia somewhere to get anything done.

p-edit: More will have to happen before that happens, to be honest. I need more on why wilky is scum if I'm to even consider that avenue of action.

[Impossibear]

tchill
hebichan

maria
wraith
ram
dunnstral
verylazy
ouroboros for lulz

bolded are my actual "probably scum" reads. the rest are meh reads. the last is just .. what it is.

[Impossibear]

Ok. You believe what you want to believe. I'll go with occam's razor.

[Impossibear]

tchill did this though. did you think it was a bus?

Yes of course. What did he do in that post besides quote some people and vote with them?

[Impossibear]

I am willing to brute force this if necessary.

I'm not dealing with this, again. I'm done.

Address my reasoning then. I'm not like screaming in anyone's face here and I'm a lot less opaque than I was about ventriloquist.

First, I've asked you for your input, which you've repeatedly ignored. Second, what reasoning? I see zero reasoning, other than "I know wilky is scum". That's not good enough for me. Sorry.

And to be quite honest, I just don't care anymore. I was hoping today would be different since you said Ghost would be the primary poster but it has been the opposite. I've seen ONE ghost post today.

It doesn't fucking matter anyway. Jingle might continue this, but I don't think I care to.

ETL

[Impossibear]

That is weak as hell, plus I disagree about the CC. But truly, I don't care anymore. Do what you want without me.

Fallout 2 came out in 1998. I've been a fan ever since. Obsessed. I've got over 500 hours into FO4 alone. My fiance and I go as vault dwellers for Halloween frequently. We own all the games for xbox 360/One and PC, plus FO Shelter on iPad, mobile and steam. When I saw GIF made a large theme for the latest game, I was beyond excited. I had no idea there'd be a player who would make the experience so distasteful.

This is not "Let RC walk all over everyone", but that's what's happening. It doesn't even matter if he's right or not. The fact that he has no notion of how to speak to people or help others understand his point of view without ramrodding his own opinion over everyone else's makes this completely un-enjoyable.

For someone like me who is a huge fan of the series and a huge fan of GIF's games in general, this is a massive disappointment, and honestly makes me question my decision to come back in the first place. I've already let Jingle know I'm not interested in continuing, so please speak to him if you absolutely must address this slot.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Busy today, so you have limited time with me. If anyone has anything they specifically need answered, speak now or wait until I have time to get back to you.

[Impossibear]

Step 1: receive miller fakeclaim
Step 2: Davesaz claims miller on page 1
Step 3: consternation in scum chat. what do we do here?
Step 4: Meta dive and find history of GIF putting two town millers. On top of that, 2 players are in the game who know of that mod meta (RC and Kaede Akamatsu.)
Step 5: 'counterclaim' Davesaz expecting someone to bring up the mod meta here, hence you seeking information rather than outright calling them scum.
Step 6: Ventriloquist completely avoids engaging with the Wilky wagon in any form after saying that he thinks it's possible that you're scum, instead chainsaw voting Ramcius for voting you.

This logic has exactly the same problem as the logic you had for the Vent lynch. Namely, it presupposes RC scum. I didn't speak up about it on the Vent lynch because there was at least one player either than the two of us (Jungle) that both could and would have coached Vent. Tell me exactly who on this playerlist is both capable of and the correct type of player to coach this behavior, and I'll consider it.

Otherwise, wilky is a low information lynch that needs to be dealt with before LYLO but NOT TODAY. At this point, I'm either basically the same level of town as Kaede or just below, (or at least, I will be tomorrow), so I get to throw my weight around there without backing it up. If you die before me, I promise to lynch wilky on your behalf, and you know I don't lie about that kind of shit as town, because I do trust that your reads have value. If I die before you, you can lynch him without me standing in the way. Just put that whole thing on the backburner for now and trust me for once.

[Impossibear]

And this is the mod that put 2 scum neighbors, so yeah.

GiF has much the same philosophy as I do when it comes to balancing games. Punish towns who think they can outguess the mod about what alignment a specific role is, but still leave enough synergy in the game that it comes out in the post how everything works together. Both scum and town millers are entirely possible here. The miller claim itself is null.

RC, can you dig up links to the games with 2 town millers when you get a chance, btw. I want to check something.

[Impossibear]

Reasoning on Tchill:

Town has, presumably, a full protective role, given the lack of kill last night and the obvious choices for whom to kill. We're a bulletproof. From a utility standpoint, Tchill might as well have claimed conditional bulletproof. We have a missing kill, and my role all but confirms that there is a scum protective role by it's wording.

That is 4 theoretical protective roles, removing literally half of the reason for GiF to include a scum protection in the first place. Furthermore, the way in which Tchill claimed immediately removed all town utility (preventing a nightkill) from the slot with no reasoning. He has 0 town utility, isn't impacting the game, and MAJOR scum equity. He can't be resolved by night actions. He isn't resolving himself through play. And unlike the miller claims, he can't be resolved by vigging him.

But more importantly, we need to get the quest fulfillment out of the way.

[Impossibear]

Aight, I'll get to it today or tomorrow, thanks. I might also look up the others, but one might be enough to see what I'm looking for.

[Impossibear]

I think there's a wide range of people who would check mod meta after seeing the miller claim + the fakeclaim and then suggest their teammate claim honestly.

Specific names please? This is important. Because I think the people in this game who would be likely to are all the people who are most probably town.

[Impossibear]

Well... I'm still willing to work with you, ETL, I'm just a bit lost since I'm disconnected from the gamestate.

Thanks. ETL should be sticking around because I'm not someone who replaces out of games under any circumstances, (including deaths in the family,) so she's sticking it out to feed me reads, at least for now. She also said she's happy to be in charge of engaging with certain people (mainly our strongest townreads) to try to PoE the game when she calms down, so be ready for her to take you up on that.

[Impossibear]

You guys might have a better shot at engaging people if you didn't post hundreds of posts when everyone else has like 20

[Impossibear]

[quote="In post 1233, Impossibear"]

Pseudo Vote Count

wilky (3):

MariaR, Ouroboros, Tchill13,

Dunnstral (2):

Ankamius,

Kokichi Oma (2):

Dunnstral

Ankamius (2):

Ramcius,

Impossibear (1):

hebichan

Ramcius (1):

wilky

Tchill (3):

wraith, Impossibear, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE

Not Voting:

Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Alchemist21, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz,

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

Spoiler: Ramcius wagon (Actual Votes For Quest)

Wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear,

Jungle, vote Ramcius.

Everyone else, for the love of god use pseudovotes for now.

[Impossibear]

You're a fucking bully and I don't want to FUCKING TALK TO YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE.

How about, let's claim IC before there's any reason to!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH! THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!! WOO!

Look, I can grab stuff out of context too.

If you're town, you're throwing gas on a fire between two pseudoconfirmed town players and a nearly confirmed town player, and I'd like you to pull your head out of your ass. If you're scum, continue, because I will lynch you for it.

[Impossibear]

Spoiler: ETL

I really don't feel like going into my ISO to quote all the times I talked about wilky's method of countering dave. But go ahead. spin whatever fucking narrative you want. You're a fucking bully and I don't want to FUCKING TALK TO YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE.

I've talked about it several times and why i felt it came from a scum mindset, yet you seem to be ignoring it and complainig that RC is ignoring you. RC has no flavor experience, as nor do I, so for us anything flavor related is irrelevant, RC has talked about the reasons they scumread wilky (or I believe they did) as have I.

There's no scum motivation for either of them to claim miller, but that's not a town tell either, simply put if you're miller everyone knows you should claim it in your first post. wilky's entrance was kinda towny, but then he started pushing the flavor claim as if it would confirm his alignment and that's how i started getting suspicious of it, I mentioned this back in day 1 too.

JINGLE PLEASE QUOTE MY SLIP PLEASE

1384 wasn't directed at you.

but i appreciate the explanation. this is the first time i feel like i understand where you are coming from. i need to leave this thing. i'm upset and not having fun.

I really don't feel like going into my ISO to quote all the times I talked about wilky's method of countering dave. But go ahead. spin whatever fucking narrative you want. You're a fucking bully and I don't want to FUCKING TALK TO YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE.

Wow are you literal. It's the timing and the tone - something I've maintained since yesterday. The flavor is just icing.

How about, let's claim IC before there's any reason to!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH! THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!! WOO!

Hey ETL, here's an excellent idea, since you're so knowledgeable of the flavor of this game, and since flavor is so indicative of one's alignment, let's have everyone mass flavor claim so you can tell us who's scum!
Sounds like something GIF would let happen right?!!

wtf is this... when did I ever say that was the only reason I was townreading him? Not to mention, this is rude as hell.. who the fuck actually believes this? You really think I am this fucking stupid?

jfc...

[Impossibear]

I've talked about it several times and why i felt it came from a scum mindset, yet you seem to be ignoring it and complainig that RC is ignoring you. RC has no flavor experience, as nor do I, so for us anything flavor related is irrelevant, RC has talked about the reasons they scumread wilky (or I believe they did) as have I.

I'll address why we think it can be from a town mindset when I have a little more free time. But again, I'm not arguing that wilky can't be scum. I'm asking for a stay of execution for one day. That shouldn't require as much faith on your part as sheeping us.

What're your thoughts on the Tchill reasoning?

And I'm headed out now, but hopefully I'll post again tonight.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

Everyone else, for the love of god use pseudovotes for now.

Refusal to do this is a scumclaim. Not even joking, I would even shoot Kaede for attempting to fuck with this. Letting scum end the day early 'by accident' is a very real concern. A confirmed town bulletproof vig is not something scum want to deal with.

[Impossibear]

Wilky
Ramcius
Impossibear
Nero Replacement

hebi replacement

Dunnstral
Jungle
Kokichi
Maria

Hebi's not getting replaced, so this is updated. This is not about thinking Ramcius is scum. This is about trading the possibility that Ramcius might get quicklynched for conftowning me.

If you assume this is some kind of gambit, neither I nor Jungle will be able to hammer. Assuming this is real, scum either lets this happen, confirming me, pseudoconfirming Jungle, and giving us a solid townblock to work with, or quickhammers, outing a second scum. Anyone who thinks Ramcius for a scum isn't a positive town equity trade is worth lynching on the grounds that they probably can't read. If you are on that list vote Ramcius. If not, use pseudovotes and don't actually vote anyone.

[Impossibear]

Also before I go, here's other thoughts i've thought regarding tchill:

tchill if town can dodge bullets (and other night actions) on the risk of their target getting shot.
tchill if scum is either a commuter that made a convoluted way of fake claiming commuter (I dont think so), or is a scum hider who risks getting shot by the vig if hiding behind someone that's being shot.

Regardless of any of these situations he cant be tracked and so long as he doesnt die from hiding behind someone that's shot it's hard to confirm it as well.
If he's suspected of being scum i think the better scenario would be to force him to choose a hiding target before night begins, and then scum either know he's town and shoot anyway, removing that uncertainty from us, or cant shoot coz it would give away their cover.

Huge problem with this. The person Tchill hides behind needs to be a high equity scumkill. The person also needs to be killable. That means, at this point, you or Jungle. I'm not willing to trade not protecting one of the two of you for a chance that you take Tchill with you.

[Impossibear]

Fascinating parallels, here, btw. RC, care to comment?

viewtopic.php?t=72816&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

And then read this:

viewtopic.php?t=76181&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

[Impossibear]

One more parting shot before I get back to actually being productive.

RC agrees I'm likely the vig based on the kill last night. I am presumably going to be targeted by a cop who CANNOT target another player. RC is still attempting to policy lynch me because I'm opposing a lynch on a player that in his own words he's not 100% on for ONE DAY. Not even to guarantee a lynch on my own suspect, although I think such a lynch is clearly the best course of action for town. I'd be fine with scumhunting and finding a different candidate.

RC is, at best, antitown at the moment because he cannot stand that I don't worship the ground he stands on, and until his behavior shifts substantially I'm going to stop trying to work with him.

[Impossibear]

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

How do the Miller claims line up with Kaede's and RMOJ's roles here based on this mod philosophy? 2 millers which could be cleared on mod Meta (and at least one on flavor) plus an IC plus a role that makes a second IC (and confirms itself with it) seems like a lot in my opinion for an 18-p game.

Spoiler: Philosophy, as it pertains to balance in this game:

Roles that are confirmed to exist:

IC- Unlynchable
Jungle's Conditional Hidden JOAT- Unlynchable and has to claim to have any use.
Scum Loyal Roleswapper- Useable to put the strongest scumrole in the strongest scum's hands.

Roles Claimed to Exist:

Miller x2- Negative utility
Non Weak Hider
BP Gated Vig- Unlynchable and Unkillable.

Roles That Exist By Thread/Role Information:

Town Protective- Missing kill N1 while I was an objectively terrible shot and Tchill was a never in 1000 years shot means that Kaede was likely nightkilled and protected. Not unlynchable at all given my Role PM.
2-3 Other Scum Power Roles- There is no utility to the Roleswapper unless scum has useful PR's. Probably one for each member of the scumteam. My guess is an investigative to help find the vig/IC (rolecop?) and something to fuck with Jungle and us (1-shot strongman (full strongman doesn't make sense)/Rolestopper/Roleblocker, etc.).

From this point of view, town is actually underpowered. I'd expect one or two weak Power roles, something along the lines of a tracker (Not likely to give innos or guilties, but not something scum can straight up ignore either) OR the rest of Jungle's JOAT abilities to be remarkably powerful. Flavorwise, it's probably the former, as Garvey's quests are apparently a meme about how annoying and useless they are.

The possible guilties/innos match up (1 guilty 3 unlynchables or 4 unlynchables against a 4 person scumteam is more than fair to scum). If the town decides to treat the millers as additional IC's that's on them and isn't worth balancing around.

On the flavor side of things, our flavor is pretty obviously a powerrole. I'd bet any other flavors that are 'clearing' would be obvious too, therefore a flavor massclaim wouldn't actually be that helpful. I disagree with ETL that wilky's flavor makes him autotown, hence his position in the lynchable pool of my reads. I just specifically don't want to lynch him today.

Hey, projectmatt, vote Ramcius. It's not about lynching him or his alignment, but is crazy protown.

Also, Jungle, Kokichi and Maria need to do the same.

[Impossibear]

Everyone else needs to not vote Ramcius, btw.

[Impossibear]

i was thinking, i really don't like this "Ram is expendable" attitude,

I'm really very sorry, but you are. If it helps sooth your ego, I'd be arguing we should use me if I wasn't a PR.

If scum decides to lynch you to prevent the cop on me, the positive equity is fucking insane for town. You haven't obvtowned by any means and you're not on anyone's I've got a hard-on for this lynch list (unlike Wilky), so there's no one who could conceivably weasel out of the quickhammer.

[Impossibear]

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

[quote="In post 1233, Impossibear"]

Pseudo Vote Count

wilky (3):

MariaR, Ouroboros, Tchill13,

Dunnstral (2):

Ankamius,

Kokichi Oma (2):

Dunnstral

Ankamius (2):

Ramcius,

Impossibear (1):

hebichan

Ramcius (1):

wilky

Tchill (4):

wraith, Impossibear, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz,

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

Spoiler: Ramcius wagon (Actual Votes For Quest)

Wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear, Dunstrall

Still needs Jungle, MariaR, ProjectMatt, Kokichi Oma

Everyone else, for the love of god use pseudovotes for now.

[Impossibear]

hi, i'll read this game soon.

is there anything important i should know about beforehand?

Claims:

IC - Kaede
BP Gated Vig- Impossibear
Conditional JOAT with a pending public Daycop on Impossibear- Realmen Only Jungle
Miller- davesaz AND wilky
Non-Weak Hider- Tchill13

The pending daycop requires that I both be the hammer vote today and vote number 3 on a wagon that is reflected as L-1 in a votecount. We're trying to coordinate the latter at the moment and using FOS in lieu of actually voting until that is over with to prevent scumfuckery.

RC (Ouroborous) pushed the Vent wagon through on very little information and then what amounted to a scumflip. There is some disagreement as to whether scum RC would do this, but either way he's town-for-now.

[Impossibear]

I'm not updating 1469 just for Wilky's FoS. I'll catch it tomorrow, though.

[Impossibear]

Note: no one in this game is going to vote ramcius.
if we're doing the thing we're doing it on wilky who is scum.
I feel like this game needs more angry RC since Impossibear have taken advantage of me trying to be polite this gamestate to shit all over the game and try to lock in mislynches.

As of tomorrow I'm going to start bringing out the big guns again but I give everyone the next 12 or so hours before I make my full case explaining why Impossibear isn't just stupid as fuck town, they're scum making the game as toxic as they have to in order to try to take away my leverage over the town and secure mislynches secure that when I get nightkilled not tonight but in two nights that no one will have the balls to go against them.

The existence of the role that swaps scum roles basically guarantees the existence of a godfather setup spec wise.

Your cognitive dissonance is showing.

First, I'm scum because I'm trying to stop the investigation by using Ramcius (which is both insane and stupid, btw.) And also, in the same breath, I'm a godfather who claimed vig on D2 of a large after convincing my entire scumteam to shoot a lurker on the PoE list of a player who just helped to lynch scum so that I could claim vig when no scumkill happened, despite the fact that doing so would open me up to a vig counterclaim unnecessarily.

Oh, and he's going to stop being civil because I'm using that civility to post cases that are convincing to the IC and his hydra partner. Which apparently means I'm either "stupid as fuck town" or "scum trying to make this game as toxic as possible."

Also, an argument made by RC today: I'm a godfather with a modified scumdaycop on my team and we're working together to clear me.

Well fuck that shit. Intentionally make this thread a shitshow, and I'll do my level headed best to ensure that the entire thread not only loses all respect for you as a person, but sees that I have the moral high ground here. You have been warned.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

As for the plan, not sure why those specific people are being asked to vote on that wagon. I'd be happy to vote there and leave it for the purpose of quest fulfilment.

I believe kokichi and maria to be players that both could and would lolhammer as town, thus they need to be already voting the wagon and unable to do so. Dunn proved he would by voting the wagon after the plan called for him to not do so, explicitly and loudly. Ramcius and Jungle are people who would be in a position to lose serious equity and wouldn't have a reason not to hammer if they were scum (Ramcius less so). The nero replacement was because I didn't know who would replace nero and didn't want a replacement to enter the thread, see an L-1 and lolhammer. And wraith was both already on the wagon and in the PoE pool.

[Impossibear]

I have done my best to keep this game civil, and I am asking that you do the same. That's it. Walk away, man, because I don't want to fight you. I want to play a game of mafia that doesn't end in force replacements, bans, and what promises to be an interesting setup devolving into a pile of shit.

But if we need to fight, I'm not pulling punches.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

They asked to be copped yesterday: as I said yesterday the sole person in this game with specific godfather equity is their slot.

Neither ETL or I are easy mislynches in the first few days, so there's little chance we'll be lolwagoned. At some point in the near future, we will be a universal townread for reasons beyond the comprehension of mortal minds. And then, between that point and LYLO, we will be killed in the night by cowards. All of this you can treat as fact, and if we fail to show results you can yell at me later.

I'd much rather someone who I'm not 100% sure will resolve themselves before LYLO get copped, preferably RC so I can avoid the paranoia over that slot, but really we're the fifth worst cop target in the thread.

Aggressively and provably wrong.

Step back, talk to Ghost, and don't turn this game into a shitshow. Literally the only thing I'm asking of you. Not don't push your reads. Not don't push me. Not engage with my content.

Don't turn this game into a shitshow, and I won't fight you. I won't step back and allow you to make a thread toxic because you think I'm persecuting you.

ETL, don't engage with him. Let me handle RC one way or another, because you guys have proven that you don't play well with each other. I still have hope that RC will back down under the weight of logic and evidence and not ruin the game.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

The only posts I have made with regards to you in this thread that weren't actively conciliatory, RC, were the ones on this page, and if you can prove to me otherwise I'll go ask for a permaban from the modstaff as soon as my ongoing games are over.

I'll admit that ETL got too rage-y yesterday. Hence, why she isn't supposed to interact with you anymore. I will once again apologize for /inning for this game with you being in it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to replace out. It was a legitimate mistake, and I'll be more careful in the future, but I DON'T replace out of games. It also doesn't mean I'm going to let you shit all over the thread because people are listening to me. Anyways, I'm out of here for the night. I'll be back to actually play the game sometime tomorrow.

[Impossibear]

This page, being the previous page now, ofc. Fucking ninjas.

[Impossibear]

I missed the exact claim, but if it's a JOAT is a 1 shot no?
Why... just why would someone with a 1 shot use it on someone who just hard defended scum, or even better fake it on their buddy who is probably not gonna make it to endgame with their claim if scum, nor is said JOAT.

Claim is that he does something different on subsequent nights but doesn't know what he does yet. Either way, not worth going into today.

[Impossibear]

Vote ramcius, maria and Kokichi.

[Impossibear]

Once Maria and Jungle vote AND GiF posts a votecount, everyone can unvote and we can play this day normally. Right up until I get the hammer.

Kokichi, vote Ramcius.

Kaede, leave it alone. Give ghost a chance to talk him down. Policy voting him only makes this more likely to end poorly.

~Jingle

For fuck's sake. I'm gonna go change the skin on my main so I stop hydraslipping.

[Impossibear]

Okay, maria, don't vote Ramcius.

Ghost, you down with keeping your vote on the wagon so RC can't quickhammer?

I definitely want Jungle on, just in case this is a fakeclaim gambit.

Also, Ram is null, not scummy.

[Impossibear]

Like there's a super easy resolution to this which is wagoning Wilky for the quest. Why is that answer being refused? What's the pro-town motivation in that?

None.

Because, and I'm pretty sure I've explained this, I wouldn't put it past someone to lolhammer Wilky with the logic of "RC said he was scum so I just took the opportunity."

This wagon isn't about lynching anyone. And in fact, I fully intend to unvote Ram as soon as the vc happens because his reaction to being used for the wagon was fairly town. Not to mention, we need two names off of the list to vote here, and Wilky has 1? vote, so we'd have to start this horrible mess of trying to craft a wagon all over again, further confusing the thread.

[Impossibear]

Ghost, you down with keeping your vote on the wagon so RC can't quickhammer?

Uh.... I think we're not presently voting someone?

Ghost

Yeah, I'm saying are you okay with being one of the 8 names for the wagon composition so that RC can't quickhammer. And voting Ramcius again if he unvotes.

[Impossibear]

Ramcius wagon (Actual Votes For Quest)
Wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear, Dunstrall, Project Matt, Kokichi Oma,

Still needs Jungle, Ouroborous

Updated. Please, dear god, let this have been handled by the time I get back to the thread tomorrow, so we can stop fucking arguing about it.

Maria, DO NOT VOTE Ramsius.

[Impossibear]

Ramcius wagon (Actual Votes For Quest)
Wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear, Dunstrall, Project Matt, Kokichi Oma,

Still needs Jungle, Ouroborous

Updated. Please, dear god, let this have been handled by the time I get back to the thread tomorrow, so we can stop fucking arguing about it.

Maria, DO NOT VOTE Ramsius.

Why not

Because the last two need to be Jungle and RC. Jungle because if he's lying, he's a sunk ship anyway and has no reason not to quickhammer. RC because he just claimed he'd quickhammer.

[Impossibear]

um

Why did they allow Ventriloquist to die wiith it then?

because the roles have already been dealt out..

Do you think scum has a full list of high priority roles or what?

Yes, actually. I made a theory post about it like 10 pages ago when someone asked me about my balancing philosophy.

[Impossibear]

Why would they want to, you have one person that is your scum liable to bait cops why do you need to keep changing it around

You know better. If you have a godfather inno, and then a different player flips godfather, you've won the game. No town will lynch a cop clear with 2 miller claims and a flipped godfather.

[Impossibear]

How do the Miller claims line up with Kaede's and RMOJ's roles here based on this mod philosophy? 2 millers which could be cleared on mod Meta (and at least one on flavor) plus an IC plus a role that makes a second IC (and confirms itself with it) seems like a lot in my opinion for an 18-p game.

Spoiler: Philosophy, as it pertains to balance in this game:

Roles that are confirmed to exist:

IC- Unlynchable
Jungle's Conditional Hidden JOAT- Unlynchable and has to claim to have any use.
Scum Loyal Roleswapper- Useable to put the strongest scumrole in the strongest scum's hands.

Roles Claimed to Exist:

Miller x2- Negative utility
Non Weak Hider
BP Gated Vig- Unlynchable and Unkillable.

Roles That Exist By Thread/Role Information:

Town Protective- Missing kill N1 while I was an objectively terrible shot and Tchill was a never in 1000 years shot means that Kaede was likely nightkilled and protected. Not unlynchable at all given my Role PM.
2-3 Other Scum Power Roles- There is no utility to the Roleswapper unless scum has useful PR's. Probably one for each member of the scumteam. My guess is an investigative to help find the vig/IC (rolecop?) and something to fuck with Jungle and us (1-shot strongman (full strongman doesn't make sense)/Rolestopper/Roleblocker, etc.).

From this point of view, town is actually underpowered. I'd expect one or two weak Power roles, something along the lines of a tracker (Not likely to give innos or guilties, but not something scum can straight up ignore either) OR the rest of Jungle's JOAT abilities to be remarkably powerful. Flavorwise, it's probably the former, as Garvey's quests are apparently a meme about how annoying and useless they are.

The possible guilties/innos match up (1 guilty 3 unlynchables or 4 unlynchables against a 4 person scumteam is more than fair to scum). If the town decides to treat the millers as additional IC's that's on them and isn't worth balancing around.

On the flavor side of things, our flavor is pretty obviously a powerrole. I'd bet any other flavors that are 'clearing' would be obvious too, therefore a flavor massclaim wouldn't actually be that helpful. I disagree with ETL that wilky's flavor makes him autotown, hence his position in the lynchable pool of my reads. I just specifically don't want to lynch him today.

Hey, projectmatt, vote Ramcius. It's not about lynching him or his alignment, but is crazy protown.

Also, Jungle, Kokichi and Maria need to do the same.

[Impossibear]

@Mod - Would the flip of a player who started the game with the role Vent flipped with be the role they began the game with or the role they died with?

[Impossibear]

Mixed bag.

RC is going to continue to believe that I'm a godfather despite the fact that I would see letting that role die as gamethrowing and that I asked not to be copped twice yesterday.

We only have to worry about one potential godfather result. And thus if a godfather flips I become confirmed town.

It means if I AM scum, I could not have switched to be the godfather today.

And mostly it means that there's three roles that scum have that are powerful enough to trade away the ability to swap roles.

[Impossibear]

Eh, if scum have any shred of intelligence they played around Vent being the lynch when he was the only player with more than two votes. They could always switch back if necessary.

[Impossibear]

100% luck, 0% skill

when all ins are free you're bound to river eventually. whatever

--

Impossibear has received a quest, the quest was given by me. they need to perform the following actions today to complete the quest:

1. be vote #3 on a wagon today that reaches L-1, this L-1 wagon must be reflected in the vote count
2. be the hammer on today's lynch

successfully performing the above actions will complete the quest and allow them to be publically daycopped tomorrow so we get another IC or confscum.

quests changes every night and GIF will tell me what the new quest is

[Impossibear]

ManWithNoName, Mirelurk Queen (

Commonwealth Vanilla

), was killed Night 1.

Spoiler: Role PM

Mirelurk Queen

Welcome to Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition!

You are

Mirelurk Queen (

Commonwealth Vanilla

)

.

?????

---

Abilities:

• None.

---

Win Condition

• Eliminate all who are sided with the
  Institute

Impossibear has received a quest to help out the settlement

.

[Impossibear]

MAKE IT SO.

[Impossibear]

Or... Flipping a godfather. Or, you know, us being a fucking vig.

Like, why as godfather who can't swap anymore do we claim vig when it's pretty much impossible for us to know with any certainty there isn't a vig in the setup?

[Impossibear]

So we're a bulletproof godfather?

[Impossibear]

Okay. And the multiple instances of asking not to be copped because we were confirmable?

[Impossibear]

Already quoted one today that you ignored, but sure, I'll go back and find them again.

[Impossibear]

Aight. I'll work on reading you. FWIW, I'm not sure that we're worth the investigate, but I'll take conftown status if someone wants to give it to us. You should know that ETL will obvtown eventually if town. It's how she do. I'd far prefer they use it on RC or an actually unreadable slot. You clearly don't have the experience to get her to rage read level, so your best bet is going to be to leave her to her devices and see what falls out when she's got her feet under her.

Neither ETL or I are easy mislynches in the first few days, so there's little chance we'll be lolwagoned. At some point in the near future, we will be a universal townread for reasons beyond the comprehension of mortal minds. And then, between that point and LYLO, we will be killed in the night by cowards. All of this you can treat as fact, and if we fail to show results you can yell at me later.

I'd much rather someone who I'm not 100% sure will resolve themselves before LYLO get copped, preferably RC so I can avoid the paranoia over that slot, but really we're the fifth worst cop target in the thread.

[Impossibear]

Anyway ghost.
There is this quest that RMOJ sent to Bear, the quest means they have to
1) Be the third vote on a wagon that reaches L-1, reflected on the vote count.
2) Be the hammer on whoever gets lynched today.
If succesful Bear will be day copped.

RC doesnt want this to happen and is openly saying that they will quick hammer Ramcius if he gets to L-1.
If you disagree with this, please vote Ramcius and help bring him to L-1 while leaving RC unable to quickhammer.
If you agree with this, then why?

Has Beat fulfilled the first requirement?

Um. I gonna sound like a flake but I think the quest is worth a shot, and I trust RC but I don't want to make this thing more toxic than it is.

I'm skeptical about where this quest came from. This is me being needlessly paranoid, but what if it's bad?

I'm not gonna go against my hydra partner, but I will talk to him.

Ghost

The quest giver has claimed (Real Men Only Jungle). If it's bad and this blows up in our face we lynch them. They'd realize this as scum so I doubt it comes from scum.

This is literally the reason Jungle is on the list of players who need to be on the L-1 wagon, btw.

[Impossibear]

Still should be lynching Wilky.

Since you brought it up, the big reason I'm defending Wilky is because he softed power, I believe there to be more town power in the thread, and I want to give him a day before he has to claim and out results. Tchill on the other hand has already given up any use he can have to the town and isn't resolvable via vig shot.

And the wagon on Ramcius SHOULDN'T go to lynch. Because it's entirely artificial. Even if we do end up lynching him, I'd want everyone to unvote first anyway. My preferred lynch is, and has been, Tchill.

[Impossibear]

I have significant reason to believe that claim specifically that I cannot go into at the moment. RC is conftown.

[Impossibear]

Also im pretty sure i switched from policy to scumread on you when you kept making up arguments to fit your reads instead of following the evidence.

Drop it. Maria doesn't fakeclaim masons here. I would bet hard money on it.

[Impossibear]

hint: we're not masons.

maybe I'll decide tomorrow if we're masons tomorrow but we're not masons today.

Okay, I'm leaving now before I break site rules, but goddammit Maria. I'm going to rant and rave at you in the future.

PEdit: the Vent lynch buys RC at least a day. Personally, my strategy there is "Lynch the day before LYLO."

[Impossibear]

What do the votes on tchill currently look like?

[Impossibear]

UNVOTE:
With this it should be 2

Ok, thanks.

VOTE: tchill

Here's what the VC looks like since GiF's last, as far as I can tell. It's been many pages.

unofficial vc

wilky (2): MariaR, , Tchill13,
Dunnstral (1): Ankamius
Impossibear (1): hebichan
Ramcius (6): wilky, Dunnstral, projectmatt, Kokichi Oma, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Tchill13 (3): Wraith, Ouroboros, Impossibear

Not Voting: Alchemist21, davesaz, Ramcius, Kaede Akamatsu


With 16 alive, 9 to lynch

[Impossibear]

I think I would prefer Ouroboros not to be voting before us though as there was the declaration of intent to sabotage the quest, so I'd like to avoid potentially losing our position in third. Can we arrange that?

[Impossibear]

I probably shouldn't have moved the vote... we were only 2 away from completing the first part.

[Impossibear]

I probably shouldn't have moved the vote... we were only 2 away from completing the first part.

Blame that on Ram tho, he's the one who shifted your vote.

Oh right. I knew there was a reason I was ok with it.

[Impossibear]

It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.

[Impossibear]

Well while you and ouroboros are here we can make my vote be the 2nd one that way no one can sabotage it. Well... except wraith

I'm here to help with swaps too

for a bit

K you don't want us on the wagon

VOTE: Kokichi

we'll vote scum then.

Appreciate it, guys.

Kaede you can vote, and I'm here to plop the 3rd.

It unfortunate that this causes another day of unnaturally formed wagons VCA is one of my strong points.

but you wanted Tchill lynch, so it's just a little inconvenience to get quest done along with his lynch

I agree, which is why I think it's not a terrible, terrible idea.

[Impossibear]

did you unvote yet?
well whatever
VOTE: tchill

Oh duh. I forgot.

UNVOTE:

[Impossibear]

Sorry kind of out of it today. Thanks Kaede.
VOTE: tchill

[Impossibear]

Am I needed to vote?

No.

New wagon list:

Wraith, Kaede, Impossibear Tchill Jungle Kokichi Maria Ouroboros

If RC agrees not to hammer, I'd rather have Dunn, but until then that wagon comp stands.

I'm not gonna be around today at all. RL beckons.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI.

Yes. Agreed. But like I said, if we have a vig, this should be there shot. What do we gain from lynching a slot that has offered no real information, with no associations, and no real reads to follow? Nothing. It's one of those slots that just needs to be erased because it's useless.

@ETL

i noticed this... you were softing VIG ON REALMAN here?

i am curious.. why did you SHOOT NAMELESS MAN instead of me n1?

yes. we softed it a couple few times.

One more thing, before I check out of the thread for the day.

I don't think we were shot last night, which means that there is probably a full protective in the thread. Whoever that is should not claim today. They should target between Jungle, Kaede and RC tonight.

This is because we are a bulletproof gated vig. Talking about the specific gating of our vig is not useful for town, but we shot MWNN yesterday. Additionally, our role PM STRONGLY implies the existence of a scum protective/kill evasion role. Hence, Tchill is probably scum.

Sorry for claiming without permission, ETL, but I really don't think we were the nightkill last night. In any case where we weren't this is crazy high positive utility for town.

why shot MWNN?

Because vent scum flip. At that point didn't know what to do so followed Ouroboros advice.

ETL

[Impossibear]

Wraith, Kaede, Impossibear

Tchill

Jungle Kokichi

Maria

Ouroboros

These people continue to need to vote Tchill's replacement so we can get a VC and be done with this ridiculous L-1 thing. No one else should vote Tchill, but I can't be arsed to actually do an FOS vote count rn.

Non bolded names are already on the wagon, but should stay on the wagon. We will unvote at our earliest opportunity after GiF votecounts. Remember, we get the hammer and to hammer today is a scumclaim.

OTM, there's a list of claims that was accurate not long ago in my ISO. If you skim backwards you should be able to find it pretty quickly.

~Jingle

[Impossibear]

I didnt know flavor knowledge was going to be necessary to solve the game.

It's not. I remember being told it wasn't.

It isn’t but I was crumbing my flavor and ETL pointed it out to everyone.

Thanks /half serious half sarcastic

sorry but i mean, it's not like i'm that was super secret message or something.

anyway, kaede is an ic. we strongly believe there to be a protective role on towns side. also we're bulletproof. so there's a few possibilities. jingle doesn't think we got shot. most likely scum trying for the ic who was protected.

[Impossibear]

at the end of the day yesterday ouro suggested if vent flipped scum mwnn was the most likely partner. so that's where we shot. really don't think they shot mwnn. he was being scumread heavily.

[Impossibear]

ok. there's too many variables to guess at this point and i don't really want to risk outing any other PRs today. know what i'm saying?

pedit: no we were gonna shoot jungle actually.

[Impossibear]

decision to shoot mwnn came after the flip

[Impossibear]

I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI.

Yes. Agreed. But like I said, if we have a vig, this should be there shot. What do we gain from lynching a slot that has offered no real information, with no associations, and no real reads to follow? Nothing. It's one of those slots that just needs to be erased because it's useless.

@ETL

i noticed this... you were softing VIG ON REALMAN here?

i am curious.. why did you SHOOT NAMELESS MAN instead of me n1?

[Impossibear]

i'm mobile so quoting is shit but he quoted it himself here.

[Impossibear]

One more thing, before I check out of the thread for the day.

I don't think we were shot last night, which means that there is probably a full protective in the thread. Whoever that is should not claim today. They should target between Jungle, Kaede and RC tonight.

This is because we are a bulletproof gated vig. Talking about the specific gating of our vig is not useful for town, but we shot MWNN yesterday. Additionally, our role PM STRONGLY implies the existence of a scum protective/kill evasion role. Hence, Tchill is probably scum.

Sorry for claiming without permission, ETL, but I really don't think we were the nightkill last night. In any case where we weren't this is crazy high positive utility for town.

why shot MWNN?

Because vent scum flip. At that point didn't know what to do so followed Ouroboros advice.

ETL

[Impossibear]

ok. there's too many variables to guess at this point and i don't really want to risk outing any other PRs today. know what i'm saying?

pedit: no we were gonna shoot jungle actually.

Not asking you to put PRs?

I am just asking for the claim post you want me to read.

Kinda confused on order of operations here.
How would the vig take care of MWNN on post 507 yet the decision came after?
Can you show me a crumb after the post you’re talking about with Orborous (sorry if I butcher the name)?

i was responding to mwnn in regards to jungle saying that's who should be shot because he was a no info lynch at the time.

[Impossibear]

what do you mean crumb to ouroboros? we didn't decide to shoot mwnn until after the flip. thread was closed

[Impossibear]

Pls just give me my Vent lynch. if you all want to pretend the game is solved when I'm gone then just sheep me on {RMOJ, MWNN, BEAR} containing at least one scum but most likely exactly 2.

this is the post we used to decide. since he was right on vent we figured our reads we're fucked up. jingle felt rmoj was town, so we shot the other one.

turns out he was wrong about all three actually :/

pedit ok.