Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hello, I claim town.
Figured i'd get that out of the way early.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I vote to policy it.

Nah.
Miller claim just means you'll have to rely on day play to figure out their alignment.

Bringing out the Roy I LIKE THIS GAME ALREADY
VOTE: Kaede
Srs vote
Pedit: Ew.

I already claimed town, do you like voting town? Only scum votes town.
VOTE: MariaR

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I already claimed town, do you like voting town? Only scum votes town.

What no! I hate voting town so I'm not going to vote town you see? I will vote only the scum as the good towny I am. Unlike

you

But i claimed town and you're voting me!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

<theory talk>
The subject of fakeclaiming Miller while being town will mean that if on accident a cop scans you, you'll be found out town, but lying.
The subject of fakeclaiming Miller while being scum will mean that if a role cop scans you, you're busted.
So it's more likely a Miller claim is correct, there are known to be scum millers before tho, you'd still need to read the player to figure out their alignment.
</theory>

Generally speaking i believe they arent fake claiming miller, but that doesnt imply them being town and i'll just rely on day play or other methods to read them.
While on that subject, I think alchemist's use of meta to read dave wasnt scum motivated.

P-Edit:

But you're voting me and I am also town so we have an issue!

But you didnt claim town! how was i supposed to know!
UNVOTE:

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Btw MariaR you will never cause an emotional outburst out of me this game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Pedit: HUH? That wasn't my goal

Oh ok
Well i thought you were trying to go for something like that to read me even tho i claimed town, but people these days, they dont trust anyone!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Because I believe in them!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

For example I chose to believe davezas is a Town Miller until play says otherwise, because Scum Millers are pretty rare to begin with, and let's not even get into fake claiming Miller territory.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I'm also going to hardclaim miller here and the miller has a flavour name too so i'd like to put the question to dave on what's the flavour name of your miller role.

Until then
VOTE: Davesaz

Looks like things are getting interesting

[Kaede Akamatsu]

In the meantime im gonna OMGUS dunn for voting someone that claimed town.
VOTE: Dunn

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

???
Pretty sure as scum you'd know that information if it was given by the mod as a safe fakeclaim.

But regardless all this helps prove is whether dave is lying about being a miller or not, it doesnt help prove anyone's alignment.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh yeah also.

I actually think that the mod explicitly would given that his last game had two town millers.

Please let's not outguess the mod k?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

Like this is SUCH an "I'm scum and didn't have fakeclaims" response.

Well it doesnt feel like that, it feels more like scum using fake claims to their advantage, but i do wonder, eh why not.
VOTE: wilky

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh look suddenly ppl derailing wagons.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

if Tchill is town, and wilky scum this is pretty telling tbh.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I'm derailing wagons that aren't necessarily on scum, yeah, I guess?

I actually was referring to the wagon on wilky.

For who in particular?

I think Ramcius for sure, a few others are maybes

I'd have to look back at the votes to be sure, but i think whoever just sheeped the first 1 or 2 votes on tchill could be scum if wilky is scum and tchill town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well except you're trying to put it as if that's the only possible option.
A hider that doesnt die when hiding on scum? that seems useless yes, but if you reverse your thinking, you could say it's a commuter with a weakness towards night kills.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

VOTE: Ramcius

agree, that's good wagon

?????

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Dam, but I already claimed on my first post!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Jokes aside, i agree with the no more unprompted claims.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Am I the only person here who's SRing Wilky not because of what they claimed but for the way they did it?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also Nero, how can I be null, when I claimed town in my first post?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

No I'm pretty sure everyone agreed it was the way they claimed not the claim itself. Can I persuade you to help me run up Ramcius?

I spectated that Bastard game GIF modded, it seems to me that Ramcius is the type of player that plays in a way that rubs ppl the wrong way and ends up getting himself lynched, ill give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

RC im pretty sure I can trust your gut, I know very well how accurate you can be most of the time.
It's not an issue about trusting you, it's an issue of this feels fishy all over it.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

What feels fishy? You think I'm scum pushing him?

Not you.
The votes on him.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

If he's town, your push on him feels like the easiest thing for scum to latch onto, considering what i saw on that game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It's hard to put a finger on it right now, you should know already that feelings are hard to explain with words.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well im not exactly getting in your way.
But im not exactly supporting you either, you're free to pursue this if it's what you want and if ramcius flips scum then i can shut my mouth about it and learn.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You're town right?

Yeah

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I am playing different yes, but idk if i would call that "excusey".

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It's more of im supposed to be a shining beacon of guidance.
And I feel more confused about what's going on.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

hm? since when did hebi go from scum to town?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I get icky pings

really?
I thought his posting looked towny.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I was hoping to solve this game before the weekend

Here let me help you
I'm town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Uhh, I claimed Town so people didnt need to bother reading me.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Show, don't tell.

Sure, will do

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh GIF's not around, now that comment ended up being kinda anti climatic.
I guess I'll have to prove my townyness later.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

@Kaede

What are all your current thoughts on the game?

Havent changed from:

It's more of im supposed to be a shining beacon of guidance.
And I feel more confused about what's going on.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ok, since ppl dont seem to get the memo ill just hard claim IC.
There, now you can stop worrying about me.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

What does it even matter, i've been softing it since my first post

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Anyway, now that you know that, i feel more obligated to try to make sense of what's going on in this game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

VOTE: verylazy

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also, i dont see how it's an issue that i claimed IC.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well anyhow i didnt crack under any pressure, i was planning on claiming early to begin with, it's impossible for me to feel pressure if I know im gonna be confirmed town to begin with.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also I'm kinda starting to lean town on wilky, hence my vote change.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well faking a hider that doesnt die when hiding on scum can be done by being a commuter.
There's also something MariaR mentioned earlier that i wanted to comment on but:

My question is why add 2 millers in the first place if both the flavor on the miller part would conf them they'd become masons within the matter of moments it feels too simple.
Perhaps that's the whole wifom trick gif wanted us to play around?

Considering on top of that im an IC, this left me wondering...

One of the reasons I stayed on wilky, but now he sounds town too.... what a headache.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh I just now remembered.
@Hebichan: Now that you know I'm town, can you explain what you meant by my posts being excusey?
@Ramcius: Where are your reads at right now? Why arent you voting?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Looks like you dislike a lot of people...
No TRs?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim"

After looking through Wraith's ISO and your question about this which is still unanswered, i dont understand what about it makes you dislike it.
First you brought up:

maybe 13 v 4 v 1, if GiF decided put some neutral for good measure

The later 13 v 4 v 1 if we assume the 1 cant win with town (serial killer for example) that also classifies as scum, not groupscum, while I believe this might be just wording issue, you're the one who brought this up at first, so I dont understand your issue with it.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Now I dont understand what that's supposed to mean xD

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Why hide that information? I think anyone's TRs are always subject to change unless they are mod confirmed, yet you dont see them hiding them.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Huh?
You're just voting Nero for lurking?
Well tbf i've known Nero for being more active usually, but why arent you voting the people that can actually respond to pressure? Nero's last post on-site was his last post here.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So you say you've seen him as both alignments, have you found him lurking as scum?
Are you even sure he's lurking and not busy IRL?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It felt like you were using meta to not take a hard stance on the popular wagon of the time. That's what I meant by excusey.

Oh, i just have a soft spot for ppl that look like lynchbait or misunderstood.
It's kinda the same thing that happened in DRV3 when everyone was wagoning Kokichi and i stepped out of my way to defend him, but that game i was taking a more active role.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Like Impossibear is being loud and reasonable and this isn't going to be like Heartless, I really don't care enough to brute force town into not playing like shit.

But when you lynch town and I get nightkilled you're lynching those three in order and getting at minimum 2/3 scumflips.

Well, when you put it this way it makes me feel bad not sheeping you.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So... will this Ego battle end someday?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I think ETL is town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ok RC there's something bothering me, but can you explain this:

VOTE: Ramcius

srsly tho

The Ventriloquist vote was basically just a meme.

^
Literally no Ventriloquist posts
v

VOTE: Ventriloquist

Actually can I get team support here this intrigues me

Alright so
Me and Anony are going to try to get on the same page
I have very good reasons for wanting to lynch Ventriloquist, I'd appreciate more support there since there's value in me being able to get the wagon while still keeping my cards close to my chest.
If we can't come to an agreement on that we'll find someone else to lynch I guess.

Yet you seem to be wanting to shove the ventriloquist lynch down our throats...

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hmm i think i like this better now.
VOTE: Wraith

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You know it's a good sign for the town when players are more concerned with figuring out hydra/alt identities than scum.

Are you even reading the same game?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Pfft, he was too worried voting you for lurking to ask you questions let alone talk about your content

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Wraith.
I was thinking about voting Ram earlier but changed my mind.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ok so i was without internet all afternoon, but here's the thing.
So far ETL has made a better job at convincing me they're right than Ouroboros has. Hence why i sheeped onto Wraith. (hopefully that more or less answers your question dave)
As I was reading when I saw Ouroboros TR on Ram considering they voted them earlier and did a switch out of nowhere for weird reasons that dont imply at all a weakening on that SR, which left me ?????
Then the OMGUS that i have the opposite view on.
And suddenly im not even sure if RC is town anymore.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Dunno if it's just me but some of RC's read trajectories feel unnatural.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Reads transitioning a lot =/= Reads transitioning unnaturally.
You can have slower reads and transition unnaturally, you can also have quicker read changes but transition naturally.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I dunno what's worse, the fact that your reads seem unnatural, or the fact that your explanation doesnt correlate with your play this game and feels like kinda trippy.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Like first i mention your reads are unnatural.
Then you explain that it's because your reads change fast, and not slow.
I mention that has nothing to do with it.
Then you mention that you're explaining your reads.....
But when did your Ram read change?, you never explained that, did I miss it? when you voted vent it was more of a "i scumread vent" than "i townread ram" when you explained it.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

And what prompted you to reread?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I dunno, still gut feel is that there's something weird in your read trajectories...
If i could with certainty say that means you're scum I'd have voted you by now.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

If this guy doesn't have an alternative PT to be posting in, why the fuck is he making several separate posts in several separate posts?
This is an individual account, not a hydra, and given that they are new they don't have the ability to even make PTs.

Where is he making these separate posts properly forum formatted to be posted together when, if he's town, doesn't have access to any MS PTs?
Why is he taking so long and waiting to post everything together in the first place? What reasoning makes sense there besides him being scum who was holding off to let his team critique his posting?

Town has zero motivation to delay responses until later since clearly he had written these well in advance of 2:23- scum who is getting scumread because of their bad play and wanting team support does.

Hmmm...
738: Thu May 10, 2018 2:23:30 pm
739: Thu May 10, 2018 2:23:46 pm
740: Thu May 10, 2018 2:24:00 pm
741: Thu May 10, 2018 2:24:11 pm (To note he quoted a post 300ish posts older and made a reply in 11 seconds)
742: Thu May 10, 2018 2:25:28 pm

I dunno the first 4 timestamps look a little bit too quick, but they may be a fast typer, i'll keep this in mind for the future.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually, I guess you have a point, sorry
VOTE: Ventriloquist

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I never thought having timestamps up to the seconds would come in handy ever.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Some people ARE capable of that, hence my hesitation.
The going backwards 300 posts AND type that response IN 11 seconds is like... what.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Thu May 10, 2018 11:12:49 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13:05 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13:22 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13:35 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13:49 pm

[Kaede Akamatsu]

With that time, it was indeed feasible to do a copy paste from another source, either a PT or a notepad, but neither makes sense for a solo town to do in different posts instead of putting them together into one. Then again, I do have some theories, but I'm interested in seeing what other people think of your theories regarding the timing of the posts.

P-Edit:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:16:51 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:17:04 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:17:13 pm ("Can i get a timer on those last 2")

Added that last one just in case.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Tbh while i think this timing theory is kind of ridiculous, it may actually be what happened. Hence i want more ppl to give their opinion on it too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Thu May 10, 2018 11:21:38 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:21:44 pm
Thu May 10, 2018 11:21:50 pm

I don't even....

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I mean when I naturally quote things as I read, it makes sense to have a time difference as I'm reading, the posts do seem pre-planned.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

why is town taking the time to do all this instead of posting stuff as they go? feels like it's coming from someone who has excessive interest in curating what they put out

Yeah, that's what I think.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Tech question: how are you getting seconds in the post times?

it allows you to put a custom format for timetamps in the settings, knowing php it wasnt an issue to begin with, but there's a link to the date format that php uses, ftr, this is what i use: D M d, Y g:i:s a (Weekday, Month, day, Hour (in 12 hour), minutes, seconds, am/pm)

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Anka, as of your latest reads list you have:

Kaede Akamatsu

MariaR

Nero Cain
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)
Ouroboros

hebichan
Ramcius
Wilky

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
verylazy

Wraith
Dunnstral
davesaz
Alchemist21

ManWithNoName

Ventriloquist

Tchill12

(Bolded is the player you're voting)
I'd think you'd have more to comment on vent or even vote there considering what we just went through to prove than just "oh are we gonna tunnel vent for the rest of the day?"

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Although I would rather hear more from vent before a hammer, nevertheless, i'd think for someone in your top 2 SR, you'd have more to say than that.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

viewtopic.php?p=9819213#p9819213
I am aware.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I wanted Ank to vote but that was before Vent was at L-1, why did Ank hammer, I clearly said.

Although I would rather hear more from vent before a hammer

But I guess people here lynch ppl without letting them claim let alone defend themselves.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Did I make a mistake?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well this is why I wanted to hear from vent before a hammer.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Anyway:

Also final and pretty damning point against Ventriloquist: why did he wait so long and post all of his major points at once?
Answer: because he posted simplified versions in scum thread and waited for his teammates to be able to review them and improve them.

Going by timestamps, this is pretty believable. All those posts were made between 3:23 to 3:25 EST.

After reading through 11 pages, there were lots of quotes I wanted to reply to. The easiest way of doing this for me was to open the post in a new tab for each - add a response to each - then when I had written everything I wanted I posted them all together in unison from different tabs. Posting them all just as I see them would be a nightmare for me, as people would be replying to my posts before I'd even gotten up to date with the thread and I wouldn't be able to reply to them fast enough. When a lynch wagon is mounted on me and every other post has my name in it, I think it's justifiable that I would want to prepare a response to them all.

I mean when I naturally quote things as I read, it makes sense to have a time difference as I'm reading, the posts do seem pre-planned.

I mean I honestly don't see how opening several tabs to reply to each one properly is so scummy. Last time I tried to multiquote it didn't work out as I wanted it to. Lack of knowledge of forum tools if you know of a better way do tell (for future reference).

Why not just copy paste all code in notepad or on a final reply box and condense everything, if that was your goal?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You know what's interesting Ank?
After Vent flipped scum one of the things that crossed my mind was to enter this game voting you.

I've been thinking about it tho, and I dont think scum quickhammers their partner in that situation, it's more likely for vent to just self-hammer, gives less information overall.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

*enter this day
EBWODP

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey Kokichi, I've missed you lots too, glad you replaced into this game!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

My impression is that the people that got immediately convinced by the timestamps are more likely to be town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Does the flavor prove that he's town? I doubt it.
Does the flavor prove that he's miller? Role =/= Alignment. Yes there ARE scum millers, the only reason they exist is so role cops dont get a clear on a miller.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

And this is the mod that put 2 scum neighbors, so yeah.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You mean, other than helping impossibear fullfill their quest?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I dont mind voting wilky, i just want to get out of the way this quest thing first.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

There's no scum motivation for either of them to claim miller, but that's not a town tell either, simply put if you're miller everyone knows you should claim it in your first post. wilky's entrance was kinda towny, but then he started pushing the flavor claim as if it would confirm his alignment and that's how i started getting suspicious of it, I mentioned this back in day 1 too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You misunderstood, he said hider that doesnt die when hiding behind scum.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Looks like an elaborate way to make a weakened commuter otherwise i dont see the point.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You misunderstood, he said hider that doesnt die when hiding behind scum.

But, like. What's the point of that then? Like if it's hiding behind scum, can it still be effected by night actions? And if it's behind town it cant?

As I understand it it's a normal hider without the "weak to scum" part, so they wont die from hiding behind scum, they wont be affected by night actions if they hide, and they will die if their target is shot.
That seems like a way convoluted way to fake claim for a scum commuter if you ask me.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

>complains about RC not providing reasoning
>completely ignores my reasoning

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey ETL, here's an excellent idea, since you're so knowledgeable of the flavor of this game, and since flavor is so indicative of one's alignment, let's have everyone mass flavor claim so you can tell us who's scum!
Sounds like something GIF would let happen right?!!

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey ETL, here's an excellent idea, since you're so knowledgeable of the flavor of this game, and since flavor is so indicative of one's alignment, let's have everyone mass flavor claim so you can tell us who's scum!
Sounds like something GIF would let happen right?!!

wtf is this... when did I ever say that was the only reason I was townreading him? Not to mention, this is rude as hell.. who the fuck actually believes this? You really think I am this fucking stupid?

jfc...

You did say it.

Re: Wilky's flavor - I happen to be very familiar with the games. As in, I spend far too much time with Bethesda games in general. When Wilky first claimed and provided a tidbit about what he was - "a prototype synth", I knew exactly who he

could

be. I wanted

him

to confirm that for me or not.

He confirmed it for me. For the same reason that RMOJ is conftown, so is wilky, to me at least. It doesn't matter what anyone says about "yeah but mods do this and mods that with flavor"

there's no fucking way in hell that character is ever aligned with the institute in any universe whatsoever, and there are no other institute-aligned "prototype synths".

So there.

ETL

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Wow are you literal. It's the timing and the tone - something I've maintained since yesterday. The flavor is just icing.

let's disregard flavor completely and focus on the former 2 then, because as i said, flavor is irrelevant to alignment, it might not be irrelevant to role, but any mod worth their salt wouldnt let their games be flavor broken.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I really don't feel like going into my ISO to quote all the times I talked about wilky's method of countering dave. But go ahead. spin whatever fucking narrative you want. You're a fucking bully and I don't want to FUCKING TALK TO YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE.

I've talked about it several times and why i felt it came from a scum mindset, yet you seem to be ignoring it and complainig that RC is ignoring you. RC has no flavor experience, as nor do I, so for us anything flavor related is irrelevant, RC has talked about the reasons they scumread wilky (or I believe they did) as have I.

There's no scum motivation for either of them to claim miller, but that's not a town tell either, simply put if you're miller everyone knows you should claim it in your first post. wilky's entrance was kinda towny, but then he started pushing the flavor claim as if it would confirm his alignment and that's how i started getting suspicious of it, I mentioned this back in day 1 too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

What're your thoughts on the Tchill reasoning?

I'll check it later, im gonna be busy soon, but i'll quote this to you as a food for thought regarding tchill:

As I understand it it's a normal hider without the "weak to scum" part, so they wont die from hiding behind scum, they wont be affected by night actions if they hide, and they will die if their target is shot.
That seems like a way convoluted way to fake claim for a scum commuter if you ask me.

Dunno if your reasoning has something to do with this or not, but that's my current way of thinking.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also before I go, here's other thoughts i've thought regarding tchill:

tchill if town can dodge bullets (and other night actions) on the risk of their target getting shot.
tchill if scum is either a commuter that made a convoluted way of fake claiming commuter (I dont think so), or is a scum hider who risks getting shot by the vig if hiding behind someone that's being shot.

Regardless of any of these situations he cant be tracked and so long as he doesnt die from hiding behind someone that's shot it's hard to confirm it as well.
If he's suspected of being scum i think the better scenario would be to force him to choose a hiding target before night begins, and then scum either know he's town and shoot anyway, removing that uncertainty from us, or cant shoot coz it would give away their cover.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Reasoning on Tchill:

Town has, presumably, a full protective role, given the lack of kill last night and the obvious choices for whom to kill. We're a bulletproof. From a utility standpoint, Tchill might as well have claimed conditional bulletproof. We have a missing kill, and my role all but confirms that there is a scum protective role by it's wording.

That is 4 theoretical protective roles, removing literally half of the reason for GiF to include a scum protection in the first place. Furthermore, the way in which Tchill claimed immediately removed all town utility (preventing a nightkill) from the slot with no reasoning. He has 0 town utility, isn't impacting the game, and MAJOR scum equity. He can't be resolved by night actions. He isn't resolving himself through play. And unlike the miller claims, he can't be resolved by vigging him.

But more importantly, we need to get the quest fulfillment out of the way.

So I've gone through this like you asked, and this sounds pretty reasonable.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Now im fine letting tchill hang too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

hey i just wanted to be lazy in the meantime but fineeeee

Pseudovote: tchill and wilky

[Kaede Akamatsu]

This needs to stop.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

RC seriously, whichever reason you're concocting for ETL to be scum requires a lot of planning and predicting that goes way out of the way of what any person could, the total worst case scenario is that both RMOJ and ETL are scum together, and even then all you'd need to do is flip RMOJ first, to do that either a "real" vig or an SK would take them out, there's literally NO REASON to not let the daycop quest go through. Even if you assume that ETL's a godfather you'd have to assume that they predicted everything upon them being scanned, and even then, the vig portion would still make them dangerous to an SK if it exists, there's no way they are living to endgame regardless of whether they are scum or town, if they are really claiming BP im sure there are ways to deal with that, either for scum or town or SK or whatever exists.

You need to stop thinking that every single thing ETL does is a scum plot, town can be wrong, even super good town players can be wrong, did you forget about that game where i was scum and i used exactly the way you're behaving right now to get a win by mislynching all the towns by your own hand?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

MAN. Why does a role that let you swap roles around exist if not to allow you to change who gets a godfather style role?
Switching basically any other role is completely replacable, you can give them to whoever you need. Cops can be on anyone, roleblockers can be on anyone, doesn't really matter.

But a -godfather- it matters who its on because of the form that the utility takes.

First of all, for this to happen, that godfather needs to have existed, so far we have confirmation of only 1 alignment copping ability, true there could be more, but not necessarily something to bother having a godfather with, with the information we have right now, besides, 2 millers if both town, is already enough to thwart a cop, adding a godfather on top of that would be overkill, not to mention having an IC + full cop is also, what.

Bodyswap: At any point of the game, you may switch your role with your factional members by PMing the mod.

Second of all, for this to work, then vent would've to be said godfather, so ETL swapped with them, according to this ability description, you swap yourself with one of your faction, not swap both of them. I do have a question tho.

@Mod: Does the flipped scum role bodyswap ability get restricted by being used once a day or it can be used inifinitely per day, the description doesnt mention it but i wanted it to be known if it wasnt a mistake

.

Third of all, you have to assume that the swap happened before vent got lynched.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

No. I'm assuming that they just rolled the godfather role. Since no one else in this game has specific godfather equity.

So basically they rolled a godfather, hard defended scum, and happened to be cop scanned by someone you also suspect of being scum.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I missed the exact claim, but if it's a JOAT is a 1 shot no?
Why... just why would someone with a 1 shot use it on someone who just hard defended scum, or even better fake it on their buddy who is probably not gonna make it to endgame with their claim if scum, nor is said JOAT.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Sure. I don't know the details, I need more flips.

And flipping the vig is your idea of progressing the game state?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

As much as ETL hard defended scum, i dont see literally anything else that could point towards them being scum, if anything only RMOJ gave me that vibe, ETL just gave me the vibe of wrong town.

I do warn you, if you do decide to make this game hyper toxic just to have your way im going to lock my vote on you until you die for the rest of the game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

The person who claimed bulletproof vig in a game where scum apparently don't have a strongman to use since thye didn't get a nightkill through? Sure.

And why would supposed scum ETL NK MWNN.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Okay everyone, the star of the show is here. (ME) Ask me ANYTHING, and I'll answer it TRUTHFULLY

reads is a good way to start.
Also vote ramcius.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Kaede is town.

Oh my I wonder how did you figure that out.

...

So tldr you dont have any real reads yet.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Dunnstral and MariaR, if i take a guess.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Kaede is town.

Oh my I wonder how did you figure that out.

...

So tldr you dont have any real reads yet.

Are you actually clear? Or is everyone just calling you an IC cause I haven't seen a mod post saying you were. But, when I was looking over this game, I thought you were town before I replaced in. But, I didn't follow it too much.

Yes i'm mod confirmed.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well that makes things easier.

Kaede if I was a friendly neighbor, would you confirm me as town.

I'm not gonna do a repeat of DRV3 if you're not even remotely a townread.
If that's your actual role tho, yes.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

She's not doing ANYTHING at all this game... other than her first posts where she was trying to read me.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I can read you a book if you like.

As long as that book is titled "The Alignment of the players of Fallout Mafia" then sure.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

VOTE: Ouroboros
I'm done with you being anti town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

yeah projectmatt is town.
scum would be too happy letting all this infighting continue.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also:

VOTE: Ouroboros
I'm done with you being anti town.

why is this game full of people actively sabotaging an easy town-victory

Because you havent had to deal with them every day since the game started.....

[Kaede Akamatsu]

RC you need to back off and talk through Ghost

dead serious

No, I don't.

Ghost didn't even want the Vent lynch why would she contest me here?

You may have lynched scum D1, but you arent god, neither is ETL. Either you die or I ignore you for the rest of the game (heck everyone else can also tell me which one they prefer too).

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also:

VOTE: Ouroboros
I'm done with you being anti town.

why is this game full of people actively sabotaging an easy town-victory

Because you havent had to deal with them every day since the game started.....

it seems so irrational to vote someone who is almost definitely town because you find them annoying to deal with.

You know any better way to deal with them? I could go and complain to the mod, but nothing they have done is grounds for doing so, they're just playing deliberately anti town regardless of their alignment.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You can probably tell i've done almost everything to pacify this stupid fighting that's only leading to toxicity to no avail. My patience has limits too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Can someone sum up the case for me?

ETL wants them to get to L-1 until a votecount so that they can fullfill part of their quest that can confirm them as town, they want Ram coz Ram is scummy and if scum quickhammers to prevent the check, they're helping them lynching someone scummy anyway.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh and your hydra partner is thinking of... doing said quickhammer.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Why didn't you say anything in my defense when ETL was going off at me?

Because she was correct.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey ETL can we use Ouroboros for your quest instead?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

fuck you.

You are deliberately getting, in the way of a cop scan. That's not even borderline anti town, that's flat out scum. And even then I still believe that you're probably just mad town and im voting you coz I dont want someone that's purposefully playing anti town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

yeah projectmatt is town.
scum would be too happy letting all this infighting continue.

Could that be a reason why neither of the hydras were NK'd? Ignoring PRs for a second, I can somewhat see this being a strategy, especially if neither hydra was on them. Mind you, the latter part of this half assed WIFOM theory is the key.

Ghost

Either you, me, ETL or tchill were the scum NK. OR ETL scum shot MWNN

[Kaede Akamatsu]

At least half of that hydra has a brain.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh so now we're going to the "Anything can be scum motivated so long as it fits with my reads"

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ghost, you down with keeping your vote on the wagon so RC can't quickhammer?

Uh.... I think we're not presently voting someone?

Ghost

Bear meant on ram.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

At least half of that hydra has a brain.

Yeah i apologize i shouldnt have said this.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

um

Why did they allow Ventriloquist to die wiith it then?

Unless Vent wasnt the one who initially had it.
OR he was already voted out by you when he died and didnt have a chance.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually yeah, why did Vent die with the body swap if keeping it would let them keep swapping stuff.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

um

Why did they allow Ventriloquist to die wiith it then?

because the roles have already been dealt out..

You just saw that the ability can be kept using, so he could've swapped the role into someone else before dying.
Specially if they have a godfather i'd assume they'd want to keep that around to be switched at a momment's notice.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually yeah, why did Vent die with the body swap if keeping it would let them keep swapping stuff.

because they did what they wanted, they gave their strongest scum player a godfather and told people to cop them.

they don't need to keep switching stuff around and giving anything else to town means losing actual usable powers.

Like the scum miller wilky?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually wilky claiming Miller and the confirmed presence of a body swapper makes both millers like super town.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually wilky claiming Miller and the confirmed presence of a body swapper makes both millers like super town.

If the miller was a fakeclaim why does it even matter presumably the role isn't even an actual miller at this point gosh x_x

why would a miller be a fake claim when there's another miller claim (Dave)
It makes no sense.
Why would you claim miller if you arent one when there's another miller claim (Dave), much less if you dont know if a rolecop exists.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

@Mod - Can you clarify what yo mean by 'day'?

The role can swap whenever they want, as long as the role is alive.

The moment you comprehend the full meaning of something is a great moment.

@Mod - If Vent did switch his role before the flip, would the role card reflect his new role or remain with the old one?

Ghost

Append to this after the votes reached lynch treshold but before the flip, i.e, during twilight.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It is clear to me, that RC will make up whatever possible reason to fit his reads rather than reading the evidence and make reads out of it.
Normally i'd scumread this, but it's RC, and apparently RC doesnt bus either... oh wait.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually wilky claiming Miller and the confirmed presence of a body swapper makes both millers like super town.

Explain this to me. I don't get it.

Ghost

Because if there's a body swapper there's no reason to fake claim miller, even if your role is actually miller with additional abilities you cant swap it out. You can just claim something else and use the body swapper to help you.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

And that is such a niche usage of the role, if scum had other powers they needed more like strongmans and shit then fuck yes they would give up the swapper tool.

they didn't expect this interpretation. we didn't even find out scum distributed their roles until now.

What could possibly be more powerful than having a conf town scum with a flipped godfather.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Append

Define append for me.

Ghost

Add to it.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

JFC HE THOUGHT HE WOULD BE TOWNREAD FOR IT BECAUSE SCUM READ THE MOD META.

YOU ARE NOT THINKING THIS THROUGH

THERE'S AN ESTABLISHED MOD META OF MULTIPLE TOWN MILLERS: IF THE FAKECLAIM CAME UP AND THEY SAW THAT, THEY WOULD CLAIM MILLER SOLELY FOR THE TOWNCRED THAT ACCOMPANIES IT. YOU ARE BEING VERY THICK RN.

Does the mod also have a meta of not including town role cops?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

also i seriously hope your reasoning for thinking it's a fake claim is because he's miller

with additional abilities.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

*isnt

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh wait nvm i typed it correctly the first time.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

But still why you think it's a miller fake claim as supposed to being a scum miller.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Anyway ghost.
There is this quest that RMOJ sent to Bear, the quest means they have to
1) Be the third vote on a wagon that reaches L-1, reflected on the vote count.
2) Be the hammer on whoever gets lynched today.
If succesful Bear will be day copped.

RC doesnt want this to happen and is openly saying that they will quick hammer Ramcius if he gets to L-1.
If you disagree with this, please vote Ramcius and help bring him to L-1 while leaving RC unable to quickhammer.
If you agree with this, then why?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

And mostly it means that there's three roles that scum have that are powerful enough to trade away the ability to swap roles.

Or that ank hammered before vent got a chance to swap.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

RC, you're playing like scum.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

What? When was the day cop mentioned?

Ghost

since very early in the day.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Or did RC happen to keep you in the dark about it?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

My current going theory is that RC doesnt want their mislynch on the town vig to go away and so they refuse to cooperate.
And will quickhammer wilky anyway coz he's being townread by most and cant mislynch him either.
P-Edit: Sure, give me a momment.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

100% luck, 0% skill

when all ins are free you're bound to river eventually. whatever

--

Impossibear has received a quest, the quest was given by me. they need to perform the following actions today to complete the quest:

1. be vote #3 on a wagon today that reaches L-1, this L-1 wagon must be reflected in the vote count
2. be the hammer on today's lynch

successfully performing the above actions will complete the quest and allow them to be publically daycopped tomorrow so we get another IC or confscum.

quests changes every night and GIF will tell me what the new quest is

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I know GIF well enough that if there's a cop that PUBLICALLY outs someone's alignment he wouldnt put a godfather on the game.
That would make something like Touhou Upick 2 repeat again.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

ETL has asked for invests several times and could be godfather, don't waste an invest unles sits a role cop

*sigh*

we are confirmable beyond an investigation, just fyi....

god... you are so thickheaded. you can't even fathom the possibility you could be wrong...

You mean like this RC?
Pretty sure she's saying she's confirmable here beyond an investigation.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

if there's an investigation in this bunch, please do check us because i'd much rather deal with RC as conftown than have to put up with even more BS tomorrow. especially if vent actually flips scum, i told jingle if that's the case i will probably just sub out because i dont want to deal with anymore disgusting abusive garbage.

ETL

This did happen tho

[Kaede Akamatsu]

GIF cofirmed the existence of a quest at the very least.
Also GIF wouldnt use a godfather if there's this limited ammount of alignment copping, specially with 2 millers (heck even with 1)

[Kaede Akamatsu]

@RC: GIF was in a game where a public alignment cop hit a scum godfather very early on a player that was clearly scummy and town proceeded to lose due to it, I highly doubt GIF would let something similar happen in one of his games.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Much less if scum can control who the godfather is, that's like punishing town for scanning correctly, town needs help from PRs not deterrence.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

As such, i highly doubt a godfather even exists to begin with, specially after that bodyswapper flip.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

...
Nope

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also im pretty sure i switched from policy to scumread on you when you kept making up arguments to fit your reads instead of following the evidence.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I have significant reason to believe that claim specifically that I cannot go into at the moment. RC is conftown.

So where does that leave us, 3 conf towns, 2 millers and an alignment scan on you?
Seems like scum has just lost the game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

u don't know me kaede. you just don't.

You tell this to everyone that DARES to scumread you.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Every single time someone in this game as much as softs suspicion on you you've told them "You cant read me, no one knows how to read me"

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So am i supposed to just ignore the scummy things you do?
And what if you're actually scum this game? if no one can read you, then where does that leave us? praying to RNJesus?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Kaede, the way Vent posted towards RC, which was the main reason I scumread Vent, makes me confident that Ouroboros is Town.

But man, RC is so good at scumzors that he could literally fake anything with team coordination.

Or something like that... am i right?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Kaede if you trust me leave RC alone

Have you done anything this game for me to trust you?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

RC and me already proved that vent's responses were doctored in the scum PT.
You cant deny that they were doctored by RC to make RC look good, no?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Look i can literally keep bringing up arguments out of my head just as long as it fits with my idea of RC scum.
Just like RC is doing with bear.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hey RC apparently MariaR claims that she CAN read you, or are you gonna say that they can just coz she's townreading you, when apparently "no one can read you"?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

It's fine I made it that if RC is responsible for the death of impossibear he dies too.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I can undo it if impossibear does indeed get announced scum.
But until then you'll die if you dare as much touch them.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Here's how it works, until I undo it if:
1. Impossibear is lynched with Ouroboros being on the wagon.
2. Impossibear is Night killed by Ouroboros
3. Impossibear is Night killed by the Insitute and Ouroboros is part of the Insititute.
Ouroboros dies too.

Regardless of whether i undo it or not, i can only do this once, so yeah.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

If you had a role like that and wasted it doing this then you're nuts.

I'm not nuts.
Either you're both town, or you (RC) are scum, in either case it's a win scenario, if you're not scum, well ETL isnt scum either unless she gets confirmed scum then yes i accept my mistake, if you're both town it's not like you're lovers so nothing should change for you two, but i dont believe your godfather theory for a second. If you're scum you have to sacrifice yourself to get rid of ETL, sounds like a fair trade for a less toxic game state.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Im pretty sure you can figure out several reasons.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

So am I supposed to endure you creating a toxic game state? i rather rep out than that.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

if you dont think you are then tell me.
How many people on this playerlist aside from me, have asked you to stop.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

You all are 100% in the wrong.

.
.
.

I rest my case.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

If your idea of ruining the game is pushing scum to a lynch correctly then we'll just never agree, for the record.

You know that's not what im talking about.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Who was the first one to threaten to make things personal again and no one actually said anything back to them?

You can literally see the quote in the post where you wanted to make it a bloodbath 1v1 with them. And it came out of you not agreeing with them.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

But since you want to play mafia by yourself, then suit yourself.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
VOTE: wilky

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hold up because this is a lot more important to me than any flip

do you agree that I was not actually instigating personal conflict with anyone on D1?

No I disagree, otherwise you wouldnt have entered the 1v1.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

If I don't contest them then Ventriloquist doesn't get lynched. I have to lynch scum. I never attacked ETL or Jingle personally, what else should I have done?

You know, show evidence like the one you showed to convince me.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

But I mean, several people in this game have said that you're without a doubt town right?
And you're so convinced that your reads are correct right?
So if your reads are wrong and town loses this i can pass the blame to you right?

Sounds like a perfect excuse for me to be lazy the rest of this game.
Just how you like it, playing on your own. No interference from the IC.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Hm? but I thought you liked to play solo. Hence why everytime input pops up you keep countering it and talk like only your opinion matters.
So, i dont believe you really want input, you just want your lynch.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Everything i've brought up regarding wilky's miller claim you keep saying
Wilky's is a fake claim.
He fake claimed it coz his team did research on mod meta.
So... sure, let's go with that.
Because that's the only possibility right?
Since, every single time me or someone else brought another option you shot it down.
And since you want to control town so hard then do so by all means.
I'm tired of arguing, I'm tired of all the toxicity, I'm tired of you shoving your opinions down my throat every time i so much as dare oppose them.
Frankly i dont even know why im still playing.
But that is what you wanted no?
You wanted to be that kind of person, that kind of player.
So, sure go ahead.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Actually wilky claiming Miller and the confirmed presence of a body swapper makes both millers like super town.

If the miller was a fakeclaim why does it even matter presumably the role isn't even an actual miller at this point gosh x_x

why would a miller be a fake claim when there's another miller claim (Dave)
It makes no sense.
Why would you claim miller if you arent one when there's another miller claim (Dave), much less if you dont know if a rolecop exists.