Mini 2004 - Birth of the Necromancer - [DERP! - MOD LOSES]

[Ankamius]

Good morning.

I'll probably not get through anything before tomorrow, I have to go to sleep soon.

[Ankamius]

I'm town, yes. I think I'll be on for a bit longer so I'll use this time while I still have it.

What post(s) are you scumreading Tywin for?

[Ankamius]

What post(s) are you scumreading Tywin for?

249/250 feel pretty fake

What post(s) are you scumreading Zito for?

[Ankamius]

mm

I know Zito (kind of... well enough to have a basic idea of how he thinks) outside the game to believe that snarkiness is probably NAI. The hiding-reasons thing doesn't ping for me either since I operate similarly. Is there another link I'm missing regarding him, and what do you think about him pointing out the same posts from Tywin?

[Ankamius]

I'm assuming there isn't a whole lot more in the game so far to base things off of for right now. If there's anything else in particular that's worth looking at then I'll go look, but I think this is enough to determine that reading through day 1 isn't going to be too insightful.

I'll be back tomorrow to give more thoughts.

[Ankamius]

Tywin's overreactions about the hammer are probably consistent with this incoherent thought dump - its just all a playstyle i dont like i guess

Probably?

[Ankamius]

ActionDan is probably town.

VOTE: Brassherald

[Ankamius]

Join me on brass, Eddie.

[Ankamius]

It's rare his brand of intransigence after earning the stink eye from almost everyone in thread (ignoring correlations) comes from scum.

unrelated, @brass, if you can't understand a even a single of those reads my desire to explain any to all of them dissipates completely.

I'm just asking for some analysis.

I can understand and agree with some, but I'm looking for thought processes.

This sentence right here.

[Ankamius]

It's rare his brand of intransigence after earning the stink eye from almost everyone in thread (ignoring correlations) comes from scum.

unrelated, @brass, if you can't understand a even a single of those reads my desire to explain any to all of them dissipates completely.

I'm just asking for some analysis.

I can understand and agree with some, but I'm looking for thought processes.

This sentence right here.

Im not ashamed to admit this went over my head. Can you ELI5?

It is a scum mindset. Town has an agenda when looking to get more information from people because they need them to get reads. Scum (especially weaker scum) don't have to care, their reads are all fake unless they're hunting another team or a serial killer anyways.

Brass isn't looking to further his own reads from AD, he's scraping his mind for something to attack or attach on to.

[Ankamius]

i dont get it
brass asked AD to elaborate because his reads did not include his thought process

The key difference its the how and the why.

[Ankamius]

what how and why
i dont see anything wrong with brass's post

Brass asked him to post the reasoning behind any of his reads, even though he apparently already agreed with some of them? What read(s) is he looking for info on and why?

Its like I said before, town has an agenda behind questions. Brass doesn't.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Brassherald

[Ankamius]

I'm going to have to read through day one, aren't I.

[Ankamius]

I really don't like doing that since it generally lowers my read quality long-term but I'm not getting much of anything from these last few pages.

[Ankamius]

Well, the only particularly interesting thing going on is the wagon on Zito, but I already asked about that and was really not impressed,

VOTE: Eddie Cane

I'll just sheep for now I guess until something better pops out to me.

[Ankamius]

mm

I know Zito (kind of... well enough to have a basic idea of how he thinks) outside the game to believe that snarkiness is probably NAI. The hiding-reasons thing doesn't ping for me either since I operate similarly. Is there another link I'm missing regarding him, and what do you think about him pointing out the same posts from Tywin?

[Ankamius]

VOTE: ankamius
back in the scum pool u go

kbye

ooooooh

You're scandalous

[Ankamius]

Actually,

UNVOTE: Eddie Cane
VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[Ankamius]

I'm out of energy for the day but I'll look into some stuff to make sure this still makes sense in my head tomorrow. Something about his approach feels way off and I can't quite put my finger on it.

[Ankamius]

Well, first of all, you're probably not going to like any of my pushes in any game I'd you don't like vagueness.

Second of all, it's not from any specific post. It's his entire ISO that feels off.

[Ankamius]

Ehhhhhh

That's a reasonable deduction, but it only looks that way because I don't explain my thoughts around each vote. I haven't formed enough reads to be confident in any of them, so I'm mostly looking to get those reads.

[Ankamius]

Well, first of all, you're probably not going to like any of my pushes in any game I'd you don't like vagueness.

Second of all, it's not from any specific post. It's his entire ISO that feels off.

Just read his ISO, again not seeing it. Your reasons for voting for Brass and Eddie didn’t really make any sense to me either. YOUR ISO is pinging me however. Any idea why that may be?

It's playstyle if anything, I'm not engaged in the game at this point, especially since we are stuck with a stalled wagon on somebody I don't believe is scum and a lot of people aren't doing much outside of that.

[Ankamius]

Speaking of which, are you interesting in talking about ActionDan at all?

[Ankamius]

Can you post what all your points on him are in one post?

The reason I find him really town is partially because I get a very genuine vibe from his posting and partially because the distant memory I have of being scumpartners with him, I remember he was nowhere near as open in his thoughts and the ones he did give were more rigid.

[Ankamius]

Ehhhhhh

That's a reasonable deduction, but it only looks that way because I don't explain my thoughts around each vote. I haven't formed enough reads to be confident in any of them, so I'm mostly looking to get those reads.

Your vote on Eddie was a sheep though and you gave no reason for it, other than that. How does sheeping help you to form better reads?

It doesn't, that was more a result of being exhausted and not caring at the moment than anything.

[Ankamius]

I wiil respond more to both this post and your other post later. I’ve already stated that I find Dan’s lurking but not posting wayy scummier than Zito voting for Kokichi who was the first one to mention that bizarre Eevee post, I believe. I disagree with him on that, because that is one of my strongest reasons for tr Kockichi.

I am still not happy about him not answering mine or anyone else’s questions nor the inexplicable calling Kockichi and me partners.

I am not tr him but ironically, I do think his prior vote on Kockichi is AGL, despite IMO, him being wrong about sr them.

snip

I totally disagree with your Dan comparison because he was LURKING but did nothing. You say that Zito did nothing as well but he actually voted - a vote I completely disagree with but nevertheless - not an entirely illogical if wrongheaded one.

This isn't unusual for Dan as either alignment. He's a low-information player and I've seen this type of behavior from him in just about every game I've ever seen from him. This game is actually the highest information game I think I've seen him play so far.

Dan still left his vote on me and now is pushing Eddie out of the blue. Between the two of them, I hands down view Dan’s behaviour as scummier.

What about it is scummy? I got the sense he picked up on something in Eddie's play and was mostly using his vote for pressure.

Eventhough I obv find all pushes on me wrongheaded ngl; I can distinguish between a likely townie but wrongheaded one: yours and to me, a highly sus one. Dan’s basic reason for still sr me, is that he is calling my votes “reactionary” which really makes 0 sense because no one has ben pushing on me harder in both d1 and d2, than you; yet when a brief wagon formed on you, what is both you and Dan’s explanation for my NOT jumping on that? Shouldn’t I be really be voting you and not Dan, based on this logic?

I didn't see anything come out as 'reactionary' for a reason from Dan's ISO. Where did that come from?

[Ankamius]

[quote="In post 443,
It's playstyle if anything, I'm not engaged in the game at this point, especially since we are stuck with a stalled wagon on somebody I don't believe is scum and a lot of people aren't doing much outside of that.

What about his “playstyle” and how is saying this any different than your previous post, saying that something was off about his ISO?

I'm saying his approach felt off, in that it doesn't seem like he's trying to approach the game the same way recently that he did in day one.

It's almost like he's floating along and using his activity to hide it today.

[Ankamius]

I'm guessing that response means you don't understand what I'm trying to do here, correct?

[Ankamius]

mm

I know Zito (kind of... well enough to have a basic idea of how he thinks) outside the game to believe that snarkiness is probably NAI. The hiding-reasons thing doesn't ping for me either since I operate similarly. Is there another link I'm missing regarding him, and what do you think about him pointing out the same posts from Tywin?

I wiil respond more to both this post and your other post later. I’ve already stated that I find Dan’s lurking but not posting wayy scummier than Zito voting for Kokichi who was the first one to mention that bizarre Eevee post, I believe. I disagree with him on that, because that is one of my strongest reasons for tr Kockichi.

I am still not happy about him not answering mine or anyone else’s questions nor the inexplicable calling Kockichi and me partners.

I am not tr him but ironically, I do think his prior vote on Kockichi is AGL, despite IMO, him being wrong about sr them.

snip

I totally disagree with your Dan comparison because he was LURKING but did nothing. You say that Zito did nothing as well but he actually voted - a vote I completely disagree with but nevertheless - not an entirely illogical if wrongheaded one.

This isn't unusual for Dan as either alignment. He's a low-information player and I've seen this type of behavior from him in just about every game I've ever seen from him. This game is actually the highest information game I think I've seen him play so far.

Dan still left his vote on me and now is pushing Eddie out of the blue. Between the two of them, I hands down view Dan’s behaviour as scummier.

What about it is scummy? I got the sense he picked up on something in Eddie's play and was mostly using his vote for pressure.

Eventhough I obv find all pushes on me wrongheaded ngl; I can distinguish between a likely townie but wrongheaded one: yours and to me, a highly sus one. Dan’s basic reason for still sr me, is that he is calling my votes “reactionary” which really makes 0 sense because no one has ben pushing on me harder in both d1 and d2, than you; yet when a brief wagon formed on you, what is both you and Dan’s explanation for my NOT jumping on that? Shouldn’t I be really be voting you and not Dan, based on this logic?

I didn't see anything come out as 'reactionary' for a reason from Dan's ISO. Where did that come from?

LOL, reread my post again. What I was saying is if MY vote not Dan’s or anyone else’s was “reactionary”, I should be voting for Ty.

I’ve already regurgited this to TY ad nauseum and tbh, it reads as if you’re far more interested in question my reads than coming up with any of your own and coming up with a valid reason for them.

The only person. that you have appeared to give a credible read to, is Dan. You haven’t even given your reasons for opposing the Zito wagon yet.

What seems ironic to me, is that you appear to be pretty much doing the same thing you accused Brass of earlier: giving reads without an agenda.

Your first line doesn't address the issue; the base of your logic depends on ActionDan having called your votes reactionary, which I didn't see anywhere in his ISO. Where does he say that?

I'm townreading both you and Dan, what exactly is the issue with me trying to get you to townread Dan too? Especially since Dan is coming around on you.

[Ankamius]

That first quote was meant to be at the end, but you know what I mean.

[Ankamius]

If Zito was town, 100% he wouldve been quicklynched already for his anti-town play, but the fact that there's so much pushback says a lot imo. The kind of pushback going on for Zito definitely wasn't there for Evee. Is it that difficult to see why? Does anyone honestly think scum would block a town mislynch, especially when it's on such an anti-town player?

All pushback in his defense has either been unexplained 'feeling' reads (bad and lazy play imo), or just general deflections/diversions like Srceen telling everyone to make a new wagon for no reason at all. The rest haven't even tried to explain why they TR Zito, or at least stopped SRing him. Others just ignore his slot entirely. Ankarius just said they didn't 'feel anything,' but thats obviously not legitimate reasoning, especially when they already admitted to having not read D1 at all. Its straight to lazy play at best, and a common scum copout at worst. I know where I stand with it though. Actually, the only person that even has even tried is ND, and although I think their logic is faulty, its at least an attempt. That speaks a lot more to me than what others have(nt) done.

I'm still where I was at from the start: Zito, Srceen, Ankarius. I'll add in my discomfort with The Worst sheeping everyone in sight.

Srceen isnt getting lynched, and Zito doesn't look to be either. Only other place ill move is on Ankarius.

I actually did read through Zito's ISO of day one.

The case on Zito looks like a playstyle clash, not an actual case. I'm not impressed with it.

[Ankamius]

Ank, answer me. Please dont pull a zito on me

Why? I already outright stated it.

[Ankamius]

If Zito was town, 100% he wouldve been quicklynched already for his anti-town play, but the fact that there's so much pushback says a lot imo. The kind of pushback going on for Zito definitely wasn't there for Evee. Is it that difficult to see why? Does anyone honestly think scum would block a town mislynch, especially when it's on such an anti-town player?

You understand that I'm one of the bigger sources of the pushback and I replaced in on night one, right?

[Ankamius]

The former is playstyle and the latter probably has more to do with the really long night than anything.

[Ankamius]

If Zito was town, 100% he wouldve been quicklynched already for his anti-town play, but the fact that there's so much pushback says a lot imo. The kind of pushback going on for Zito definitely wasn't there for Evee. Is it that difficult to see why? Does anyone honestly think scum would block a town mislynch, especially when it's on such an anti-town player?

All pushback in his defense has either been unexplained 'feeling' reads (bad and lazy play imo), or just general deflections/diversions like Srceen telling everyone to make a new wagon for no reason at all. The rest haven't even tried to explain why they TR Zito, or at least stopped SRing him. Others just ignore his slot entirely. Ankarius just said they didn't 'feel anything,' but thats obviously not legitimate reasoning, especially when they already admitted to having not read D1 at all. Its straight to lazy play at best, and a common scum copout at worst. I know where I stand with it though. Actually, the only person that even has even tried is ND, and although I think their logic is faulty, its at least an attempt. That speaks a lot more to me than what others have(nt) done.

I'm still where I was at from the start: Zito, Srceen, Ankarius. I'll add in my discomfort with The Worst sheeping everyone in sight.

Srceen isnt getting lynched, and Zito doesn't look to be either.

Only other place ill move is on Ankarius.

I’m down with that. I was just on the verge of switching my vote. Most of her posts are all about how she is “exhausted”, “lacks energy” or isn’t “engaged” for whatever reason. Add to this, all of her votes seem like throwaways and lack any genuine basis. Even her read on Dan - the only one, that doesn’t sound like total bs., seemed to be inserted there to sound like an actual read, rather than questioning me.

Oh dear.

You were right, Dan.

[Ankamius]

Ank, answer me. Please dont pull a zito on me

Why? I already outright stated it.

I missed it in your wall posts. Can you quote it for me?

[quote="In post 443,
It's playstyle if anything, I'm not engaged in the game at this point, especially since we are stuck with a stalled wagon on somebody I don't believe is scum and a lot of people aren't doing much outside of that.

What about his “playstyle” and how is saying this any different than your previous post, saying that something was off about his ISO?

I'm saying his approach felt off, in that it doesn't seem like he's trying to approach the game the same way recently that he did in day one.

It's almost like he's floating along and using his activity to hide it today.

[Ankamius]

im guessing he hasnt played with you before

zito is the lynch, no worries

I've been wondering where you were; do you have any thoughts about the last few pages?

[Ankamius]

What??????

You're saying you have nothing wrong with Zito's day 1 to day 2 transition. But, mine is off? Even though I've continued trying to pressure Zito from day 1?

VOTE: ankmius

This is scum.

See, this is what I'm talking about.

Reads changing over night =/= overall approach towards the game changing. You're pushing your critics that already have support for them, but there's no intensity behind any of your posting outside of it. It's like you don't care, despite already making your way into a lot of people's townreads and being a significant force behind the day one lynch.

[Ankamius]

Ank, answer me. Please dont pull a zito on me

Why? I already outright stated it.

I missed it in your wall posts. Can you quote it for me?

[quote="In post 443,
It's playstyle if anything, I'm not engaged in the game at this point, especially since we are stuck with a stalled wagon on somebody I don't believe is scum and a lot of people aren't doing much outside of that.

What about his “playstyle” and how is saying this any different than your previous post, saying that something was off about his ISO?

I'm saying his approach felt off, in that it doesn't seem like he's trying to approach the game the same way recently that he did in day one.

It's almost like he's floating along and using his activity to hide it today.

What are your reads on the rest of the players, other than Brass, Kokichi and Dan? Not including Eddie, because you voted him without one.

Dan is town. You and Tywin, while both having biased views of the gamestate, are both town.

Eddie is null.
Papa Zito is lightly leaning town, although that's mostly because this wagon on him is lazy.

Wisdom and the worst are both lightly leaning scum; nothing either of them has said so far showed town and they're the back end of the Zito wagon. If there was scum there, this would be a likely spot for them.

The brass read is shelved right now. There was enough blowback from the vote that I really couldn't test his response like I wanted to.

Srceenplay and Sugar Cain, I don't even remember anything either of them have done outside of the Eevee lynch vote.

[Ankamius]

Regardless of anything, how does that relate to the post you quoted?

[Ankamius]

Um, Nancy?

Well, first of all, you're probably not going to like any of my pushes in any game I'd you don't like vagueness.

Second of all, it's not from any specific post. It's his entire ISO that feels off.

Just read his ISO, again not seeing it. Your reasons for voting for Brass and Eddie didn’t really make any sense to me either. YOUR ISO is pinging me however. Any idea why that may be?

It's playstyle if anything,

I'm not engaged in the game at this point, especially since we are stuck with a stalled wagon on somebody I don't believe is scum and a lot of people aren't doing much outside of that.

This is just now starting to change. Of course I'm not going to have a lot of fleshed out reads.

[Ankamius]

The Worst is one of my stronger town reads. He seems pretty genuine to me.

Why are Ty and me town though? Not that I disagree but what are you basing this on? What about Wisdom and the worst, do you find particularly scummy?

Saying that they haven’t “showed town”, is meaningless,

Why is Eddie “null”?

Why is Zito townleaning?

Like I’ve already said, the only somewhat credible read you’ve given so far is on Dan, because his is the only one that sounds like you’ve put some actual thought into to.

Your original case on me was pretty blatantly town, Tywin is town because he's falling into the same trap I see his type of playstyle fall into all the time; it's the type of trap that's easy to read and he's falling squarely on the town end of it.

Eddie's actions just... don't feel like scum or town. He's probably a player I'll have to get reads on indirectly.

Wisdom/the worst/Zito reads are where they are for the reasons I stated; there's a reason I stated alongside them that they aren't strong reads.

[Ankamius]

The trap Ty is falling into is confirmation bias about scumreads that are incriminated by direct actions but aren't really scum otherwise. The way the player treats the people not scumreading that person along those lines is pretty indicative.

The rest... I've already gone into. Read my ISO.

[Ankamius]

I'm a she now, Wisdom.

Not upset, just noting.

[Ankamius]

Any particular reasoning on Sugar?

[Ankamius]

Well

What exactly are your other reads, TW.

[Ankamius]

I will have very little time for the next 24 hours, but I'm going to do a deep analysis afterwards if the game doesn't pick up by then to see if it can get jumpstarted again. This sudden lull in activity is disturbing, especially now that the Zito wagon has effectively stalled out and the wagon on me isn't any better. Initial thoughts about this is that Zito is town being parked on by scum, but I'll look into that more when I get around to analyzing things.

Papa Zito and Sugar Cain need to come in and give thoughts on the past several pages ASAP, especially Zito since the focus of a big chunk of it was not directly on him. Sugar Cain, I'd take just about anything because that slot has been completely useless.
I'm still waiting on the worst's non-Zito reads.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Sugar Cain

[Ankamius]

I will have very little time for the next 24 hours, but I'm going to do a deep analysis afterwards if the game doesn't pick up by then to see if it can get jumpstarted again. This sudden lull in activity is disturbing, especially now that the Zito wagon has effectively stalled out and the wagon on me isn't any better. Initial thoughts about this is that Zito is town being parked on by scum, but I'll look into that more when I get around to analyzing things.

Papa Zito and Sugar Cain need to come in and give thoughts on the past several pages ASAP, especially Zito since the focus of a big chunk of it was not directly on him. Sugar Cain, I'd take just about anything because that slot has been completely useless.
I'm still waiting on the worst's non-Zito reads.

I feel like in this post you are saying you know Zito is town. Town reading Zito. Throwing shade at Zito and posturing.

Anyone else see that?
Plus wisdom with the follow up vote like “ sure thing buddy. ”.

Really?

[Ankamius]

Wisdom, I don't think that push is scummy.

I'll address the post itself when I have time.

[Ankamius]

Although really, everything in that post is consistent with my earlier thoughts, the biggest reason I want Zito and Sugar to post now is because they've been absent for longer than everyone else.

Plus, Zito has been under a lot of fire until now. I want to see what he has for us now that he is under less lynch pressure.

[Ankamius]

What are your thoughts Kokichi?

[Ankamius]

Well... yeah, the game is stalling.

Who else are you interested in wagoning?

[Ankamius]

Okay, those reads are a very good sign.

Talk to me once you have a better grip on the gamestate, I think we might be on the same wavelength here.

[Ankamius]

You didn't answer my question, worst.

[Ankamius]

Well

What exactly are your other reads, TW.

[Ankamius]

Never mind,

now

this push is looking scummy.

[Ankamius]

Do you know what a reach out is?

[Ankamius]

He is saying that he found three townreads very early on into the game, and I have the same townreads after very little time of being engaged into the game. We are clearly on the same page, just off different material, so I have high hopes that Nero and I will be able to work well together this game.

Srceen making up an excuse to attack that when my wording doesn't imply what he said at all is reeking of scum trying to keep town disorganized and lazy.

Kokichi's backing of it is not quiiiite as bad since it can also be bias too, but it's not a town marker by a long shot.

[Ankamius]

Nero, I'm curious why you think my vote is on you right now.

[Ankamius]

Nero, I'm curious why you think my vote is on you right now.

you voted me b/c my slot was inactive. I'd assume that your explanation is that you've left your vote on me as a "pressure vote"

Okay, so you ARE paying attention. So why are you assuming I'm voting you because of a scumread?

[Ankamius]

Btw I originally didn't unvote because I'm not dealing with the tags on my phone, but now I'm keeping it. That post was not town.

[Ankamius]

i think scum ank is less engaged than this

He has made pushes on 4 people but none of the reasons make any sense.

I get reads mostly by intuition. When you read my posts, you can't take them at face value because I don't use concrete reasoning to explain them. I read between the lines and judge based on what I see there.

If I'm making sense all the time, I'm scum.

[Ankamius]

where the hell did i say youre scum because of this?

:/

I don't know why you voted me to begin with. I think its a plenty fair for me to think that you and Ank voted us b/c we weren't active and is the dumbest argument ever that I shouldn't assume that. I mean, if not that what SHOULD I assume?

but also like you are sitting there and saying to lynch me so its pretty obvious that you are scum reading me or I guess its behavior consistent with our last scum game together so...

How much is your scumread on me based on that?

[Ankamius]

How much is your scumread on me based on that?

maybe 25%. Like I'm mainly scumreading you b/c I think there's scum that was going for a low resistance wagon. I don't think you're making a ton of sense here but you've already self meta'd with "I don't make sense as town". Do you think ppl should suspect you when I flip green?

Why are you assuming you're getting lynched? There is still more support for lynching me than you.

[Ankamius]

Low resistance wagon is Zito btw.

[Ankamius]

I'm not?

Whats your read on Wisdom.

Your wording suggests otherwise.

I'll sort Wisdom individually later, I'm not adept enough at reading him beyond whether he looks town over the long term, but he's more likely town than not based on my current view of the game state.

[Ankamius]

Fine, I'll humor you.

My focus would still be on those who outwardly supported Srceen's reasoning for scumreading me. Scum intent is all over that.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Sugar Cain

VOTE: Srceenplay

[Ankamius]

I'm thinking now that Nero's push was an overreaction. The follow up seems pretty town from what I remember of Nero's playstyle.

[Ankamius]

yeah im not talking wifh scum anymore

vote this pls

This game seems very split

I don't think a scrum debate is going to fix this.

[Ankamius]

meh, I like him. Let's be honest here, I hadn't read and you agreeing with me while still voting me looked a bit like talking out of both sides of your mouth. Vote Wisdom then we can all be one happy town bloc.

Eh... I'm not really feeling it.

Are you willing to compromise on Eddie or Kokichi?

[Ankamius]

That's about par, I don't get how you reach your conclusions from what I say either.

[Ankamius]

I'll try to get through whatever analysis I can tonight. It's hot as hell in here and I'm waiting for someone to get back to me so no guarantees I'll have much or anything tonight.

[Ankamius]

The worst and brassherald are already dropping into scumreads just from pages one and two.

[Ankamius]

I'm waiting for someone to get back to me

Woah in the scum pt?

Yeah, I want to make sure that my partners are on board with my gambit before I go through with it.

[Ankamius]

No, I really can’t tbh. Why would you want to hide your reasons?

Slamming me for grammer now, seriously?

*grammar


There's any number of reasons why I'd want to hide my reasons! I'm surprised as a graduate of MU you're not able to come up with any. I've been told so often how much better mafia play is over there. This isn't a newbie game tho so I'll leave that particular theory lesson for you to chew on.

Anyway it seems people have abandoned this wagon because they saw something shiny so I guess I'll go vote your partner now.


VOTE: Kokichi

Zito is next on the strong town list.

[Ankamius]

Because it's apparent from Zito's ISO that he's scumreading Kokichi at that point; in addition, the way he's expressing it over time would make sense if his reasons for finding Kokichi's posts not town are the same as mine are.

[Ankamius]

How is Zito exploiting Kokichi's natural scumminess? That doesn't even make sense.

[Ankamius]

i took your word for it that zito has been scumreading kokichi

I don't understand what you're saying here.

[Ankamius]

Good question!

Town: tw tl nd39 koki
Townlean: wis dan and maybe you
Consistent but need to post more: brass srceen
Eddie Cane: Eddie Cane

Everyone else is scummy but irksomely so, not sorted properly. I have no strong scumreads rn.

Like this laissez-faire vibe seems to come from town srceen but he's vibin too disconnected for my liking rn

Kinda thinking my reasons for liking Anka for town are nai
They remind me of some of my nai traits (just less hyper and probably smarter)

Srceen's push is bad lol

pedit: whaaaaaa

Worst, what exactly is going on here?

[Ankamius]

So wisdom/eddie/brass?

This team actually makes some level of sense, but I think Wisdom would've aided in the push on me instead of going in his own direction after the Zito wagon fell apart if that was the case. He's seen me be a competent town before and might remember from a while ago roughly how I get reads, but I don't think he believes I'm enough of a threat to have that deter him, even if this team means I had basically pointed the finger at both his buddies as soon as I came in.

[Ankamius]

you said zito has been scumreading kokichi and thus hes town

i said he could be scum using genuine reasons to scumread kokichi because hes naturally scummy

I'm not townreading Zito because he's scumreading Kokichi.

I'm townreading Zito because I believe he's scumreading the Kokichi posts before that for the same reason I was,

and

is unlikely to be faking it because of both how he talked about it when he was questioned and how he clearly felt about it over time. It feels like he picked up on the same type of thing I did, stood his ground, then let it go when it was no longer relevant.

[Ankamius]

Good question!

Town: tw tl nd39 koki
Townlean: wis dan and maybe you
Consistent but need to post more: brass srceen
Eddie Cane: Eddie Cane

Everyone else is scummy but irksomely so, not sorted properly. I have no strong scumreads rn.

Like this laissez-faire vibe seems to come from town srceen but he's vibin too disconnected for my liking rn

Kinda thinking my reasons for liking Anka for town are nai
They remind me of some of my nai traits (just less hyper and probably smarter)

Srceen's push is bad lol

pedit: whaaaaaa

Worst, what exactly is going on here?

Comment through it for me.

I can't figure out what your thought process is between these posts.

[Ankamius]

Actually, now that I look at the surrounding posts again, this progression checks out.

[Ankamius]

So wisdom/eddie/brass?

This team actually makes some level of sense, but I think Wisdom would've aided in the push on me instead of going in his own direction after the Zito wagon fell apart if that was the case. He's seen me be a competent town before and might remember from a while ago roughly how I get reads, but I don't think he believes I'm enough of a threat to have that deter him, even if this team means I had basically pointed the finger at both his buddies as soon as I came in.

Okay, how are all of them connected

other than their vote on Sugar

?

This makes even less sense than Zito thinking Kokichi and me were scumpals.

Here's the main pattern I'm seeing when I'm looking into this scumteam:

Spoiler:

I'd normally color code the votes in question but that would require removing all the postlinks and I'm not going to take the time to do all that.

Official Vote Count 1-1

Nancy Drew 39

(5): the worst, Wisdom, brassherald, Papa Zito, Eddie Cane

(L-2)

MechaGoomba

(1): ActionDan

Eddie Cane

(1): Srceenplay

Not Voting

(6): Kokichi Oma, MechaGoomba, Sugar Cain, EeveeLution Army, Tywin Lannister, Nancy Drew 39

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-02 18:30:00)

Previous Vote Count | Next Vote Count

Official Vote Count 1-2

EeveeLution Army

(5): Eddie Cane, Wisdom, the worst, Kokichi Oma, Nancy Drew 39

(L-2)

Papa Zito

(2): Tywin Lannister, brassherald

Eddie Cane

(1): Srceenplay

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ActionDan

Kokichi Oma

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(3): MechaGoomba, Sugar Cain, EeveeLution Army

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-02 18:30:00)

Previous Vote Count | Next Vote Count

Official Vote Count 2-3

Papa Zito

(5): Kokichi Oma, Tywin Lannister, brassherald, Wisdom, the worst

(L-2)

ActionDan

(2): Nancy Drew 39, Eddie Cane

Tywin Lannister

(1): Papa Zito

Eddie Cane

(1): ActionDan

brassherald

(1): Ankamius

Not Voting

(3): HarmlessZombie, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

Official Vote Count 2-6

Papa Zito

(3): Tywin Lannister, brassherald, Kokichi Oma

Ankamius

(3): Eddie Cane, Nancy Drew 39, Srceenplay

Sugar Cain

(2): Ankamius, Wisdom

Tywin Lannister

(1): Papa Zito

Eddie Cane

(1): ActionDan

Srceenplay

(1): the worst

Not Voting

(2): HarmlessZombie, Sugar Cain

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

The correlation between them is that they tend to vote together when there's a strong push on someone outside of their group, but they're in different wagons in situations like the last vote count where town is split in a lot of different directions.

It's not a slam dunk by any means, but there's enough evidence here to be worth relooking at if they start flipping scum. It's also worth noting that their locations on the wagon is different on the Zito wagon than the Eevee and Nancy wagon, although that's basically useless until there's more information out on the table (and it's also worth noting that Wisdom unvoted to join the AD wagon before hopping back).

[Ankamius]

^Also evidence against that scumteam.

[Ankamius]

No, I really can’t tbh. Why would you want to hide your reasons?

Slamming me for grammer now, seriously?

*grammar


There's any number of reasons why I'd want to hide my reasons! I'm surprised as a graduate of MU you're not able to come up with any. I've been told so often how much better mafia play is over there. This isn't a newbie game tho so I'll leave that particular theory lesson for you to chew on.

Anyway it seems people have abandoned this wagon because they saw something shiny so I guess I'll go vote your partner now.


VOTE: Kokichi

Zito is next on the strong town list.

Is this a joke post.

Idk, try reading the game.

[Ankamius]

It seems Ank is basically just handing out town points for agreeing with her reads and reasoning, which is pretty bad. If she, at any time, she would like to clarify what she actually is doing and correct me, I will admit being wrong.

If that's what you are doing and you are actually town, stop it.

In other news,

@the worst

talk to me about Screenplay here, I'm a little confused on your current vote.

Can you go into this more for me? I'm confused how you're getting this impression.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Srceenplay

I want to realign my reads.

[Ankamius]

Srceenplay, where are your thoughts at?

[Ankamius]

Nancy Drew 39
Papa Zito

ActionDan

Tywin Lannister

Sugar Cain
the worst

Srceenplay
Wisdom

Eddie Cane
brassherald

Kokichi Oma

This is roughly where I'm at from town to scum right now;

Nancy is just blatantly town. Very off base, but there hasn't been a single shred of scum intent behind any of her pushes on me.

Zito is town by the way he's been going about this game, the gamestate, and the fact that the majority of his critics are south of the null line.
ActionDan had a couple pretty strongly town posts; I have somewhat distant memories of playing with him as both town and scum, and my gut is telling me this is closer to town-him. It's not enough to be blatant town and I could be misremembering, but I don't think it's very likely at this point.

Tywin hasn't really been around for the past 10 or so pages and the reason I was townreading him so heavily in the first place might not actually be as strong as I thought it was initially now that I have a better picture of the gamestate. I'm still reasonably confident he's town, but not quite enough to be super confident anymore. I'll wait until he has time to come on and post again before I judge it.

Sugar Cain looks a lot better than they used to; I don't think I'm especially good at reading Nero or Rangal effectively, but both their posts individually feel townish so far. It's entirely possible I'm being blindsided, but I'll have a better opinion on whether that's the case or not over time as more posts come out.
The worst honestly just looks like a town sheep. Nothing particularly town from this slot, but nothing all that scummy either. Something about the way they're handling the game doesn't feel like scum-driven, but it's very... hard to tell.

Srceenplay's push on me was scummy, but now I'm seeing a possibility that he's town that saw a potential slam dunk by how he has been playing it. He got a lot of support from his push on me and there's not a whole lot of pushback outside of Wisdom, who is also reading scummy to a lot of people. I think scum would've handled that differently so I'm a lot less confident that the push in itself was from scum. However, nothing has felt especially town from them and that only minimizes the scumread. Light-scum.
Wisdom is giving me the same feeling he did the time I caught him as scum in Unbalanced II; I just don't ever feel anything town from him. I know he has a good scumgame and I can see his actions being to manipulate things towards his own goals, but the main thing that's making me hesitate in calling him scum is that I don't think he would outright defend me like this. He knows very well how to shut me down (and that I can be a strong town when I'm not) and if anything, he's shied away from going that route. Light-scum here too, but it's a fragile read and has a lot of potential to go south real quick.

Eddie Cane... I can't get a read on his thought processes. The fact that his two scumreads are me and the worst suggests to me that he's trying to keep town from coming together, but even that's hard to tell because this slot is completely useless at saying anything readable.
Brassherald has given me the same feeling every time he's posted. Nothing about what he tries to engage feels like he's working towards anything; it feels like he's trying to look busy and coast.

Kokichi Oma is my pick for scum if I had to choose only one in this game. He's been sheeping really bad wagons (Zito and me, although his justification for jumping ship onto my wagon was horrible too), his posts around the Eevee wagon are scummy, he supported Srceen's bad push on me, etc. He's not trying to solve the game, he's coasting on the towncred that he somehow got on day one. He spent more than half the day so far taking potshots at whoever he can get away with sniping at.

[Ankamius]

you said zito has been scumreading kokichi and thus hes town

i said he could be scum using genuine reasons to scumread kokichi because hes naturally scummy

I'm not townreading Zito because he's scumreading Kokichi.

I'm townreading Zito because I believe he's scumreading the Kokichi posts before that for the same reason I was,

and

is unlikely to be faking it because of both how he talked about it when he was questioned and how he clearly felt about it over time. It feels like he picked up on the same type of thing I did, stood his ground, then let it go when it was no longer relevant.

This is the post I am most confused about from you, it seems like a roundabout way to say our thinking aligns therefore he's town.

I'm mostly not sure what is being said because you start off saying one thing, then continue to talk about the townread, which, to me, reads pretty close to what you are saying you are not doing.

I guess I am asking for more clarification on this read.

Well yes, I believe our thinking aligned.

The more important part is how he went about it.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

[Ankamius]

I can't really explain it any more than I already have. I really just don't see scum picking up on Kokichi's posting, following it through without explaining it, sticking to it, then morphing his thoughts as the game went on

while

under a lot of fire.

It feels really natural as town and something that wouldn't be advantageous to fake.

[Ankamius]

i think what i dont like in this game is that its missing leadership type players
everyone is saying their own thing and theres nobody to bring things and people together

I think the bigger problem is that 1/3 of the game has been absent the last couple days and there's not a whole lot we can do until they catch up.

[Ankamius]

Like, I'd love to work with my townreads, but three of them are firmly in that absent-for-days list and the fourth thinks everything I do is scummy, so I don't have a whole lot of choice but to go solo.

[Ankamius]

Kokichi Oma is my pick for scum if I had to choose only one in this game. He's been sheeping really bad wagons (Zito and me, although his justification for jumping ship onto my wagon was horrible too), his posts around the Eevee wagon are scummy, he supported Srceen's bad push on me, etc. He's not trying to solve the game, he's coasting on the towncred that he somehow got on day one. He spent more than half the day so far taking potshots at whoever he can get away with sniping at.

[Ankamius]

...Him having a part in everything that feels like it's had scum influence on it is normal for him as town?

[Ankamius]

...Him having a part in everything that feels like it's had scum influence on it is normal for him as town?

but do you see actual scum motivation in his posts or is it just "i dont expect town to do this this way"

Both?

His is the name that pops up over and over again when I run through every situation that feels really slimy, to the point where he's either really really off as town or trying to subtly push the game a specific way. I find the latter a lot more likely.

[Ankamius]

Like, I find his posts scummy when I view them in a vacuum and I view his play this game as scummy when I look at the bigger picture.

[Ankamius]

Anti-town cohesion.

Other than a slight detour onto posturing to hop on Sugar Cain (which was right after I reached out to him and before Nero started pushing me too), he's been going between riding my ass and parking on Zito all day. I believe he's seeing me as a threat since I'm at least

trying

to work with people and bring town together. I don't really get why he'd still be parked on Zito on default as either alignment honestly, I guess just so he doesn't piss anybody off?

If there's anything you should already know about me Wisdom, it's that my reads on people that attack me tend to be a lot better than my other reads. This entire push on me has felt sketchy as fuck (which is by far the biggest reason why I think scum detoured and tried to push me down today) and he's the biggest name that has yet to feel town at all from it.

[Ankamius]

I'd have to reread a lot of things to adjust for that, but I think all that would significantly change is the scumread strength of everyone below null.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Brassherald

This is a good wagon.

[Ankamius]

I'd have to reread a lot of things to adjust for that, but I think all that would significantly change is the scumread strength of everyone below null.

Like what?

I'd have to reread a lot of things

to adjust for that, but I

think

all that would significantly change is the scumread strength of everyone below null.

[Ankamius]

Tywin:

Well, first, before I say anything, please double check my name.

Next, some questions for you:

1. I've spent a lot of today calling Zito leaning town based on primarily the wagon on him. Zito lately has been under less pressure than any other time today and I'm still generally distrusted and don't have any significant influence; why would I suddenly declare Zito to be obvtown after the direct pressure on me is slackened?

2. What do you mean by sheeping me on Wisdom or the worst? By this token, what are your opinions on my reads since you also mentioned in that post that you would give more credence to them if I flipped town.

3. Assuming the case of me-scum and town-zito you mentioned, what does the game state progressing the way it has mean for that? You say I'm looking to get towncred for his inevitable lynch, but it turned into me becoming a competing wagon for him briefly before the game state ballooned into a mess of other wagons. What do you believe my scum agenda is with this progression?

4. I was referring to one specific case (I believe one you made early on when Zito was at L-2 about why he wasn't lynched yet(?)) when I said you fell into a trap. What was your impression since you referred to cases in the plural form?

[Ankamius]

Worst case scenario for me is Wisdom, the worst, and someone like Eddie or Sugar flip scum, since I've been giving them a pass all game in search of monsters to slay. That's a possibility, but I won't consider it barring my original reads being proven wrong, and

the fact that they can't get a wagon to stick in the way a townie like Evee could just secures my confirmation bias. I want one of them gone before I'll consider switching gears.

One thing I would like you to show your work on as well is this right here. What's different about the wagons your referring to from Eevee?

[Ankamius]

*you're

welp.

[Ankamius]

Huh?

[Ankamius]

Hm...

Something's really weird about the Zito wagon.

[Ankamius]

Tywin might actually be scum this game.

[Ankamius]

ActionDan: I want to talk to you when you have a chance to be here and are reasonably caught up.

[Ankamius]

Just by the way he shifts across his catchup post, I wouldn't find it unlikely at all.

Just reexamining the start of the day is connecting the dots even more for a Train-Brass scumteam.

I might actually be close to the point where I can solve the game just with a couple flips. I think determining scum's game plan today will completely expose them, and what I'm seeing is sloppy execution.

[Ankamius]

Tywin - Brass, sorry.

I'm on my tablet.

[Ankamius]

scum already lost their NK.

Unpack this.

[Ankamius]

Wisdom might be scum with Ankarius actually? He's vote hopped on almost all obvious town, aside from Zito.

Anyway, I'm sitting where I am regardless. Ankarius is scum.

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

If im wrong, then whatever. Pretend I was NKd rather than an obvious mislynch done by scum like Ankarius. She claims I'm scum now, so that fits her fake reads. Feel free, as long as everyone else takes out Ankarius. You'll get plenty of info when she flips. You might go next wisdom.

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Tywin Lannister
VOTE: Brassherald

[Ankamius]

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

[Ankamius]

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

The 'case' you gave on me in your catchup can be simplified to scumreading me because I defended Zito when he was the primary wagon of the day. You also have yet to answer my questions, which involves me asking why my followup play would make sense if I'm scum and Zito's town.

And this?

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

This is buzzwords and smoke, not a case.

Spoiler:

Feel free to lynch me first if town agrees to hang Ankarius tomorrow. I'll take that trade, since scum already lost their NK. It's still a win.

Wisdom might be scum with Ankarius actually? He's vote hopped on almost all obvious town, aside from Zito.

Anyway, I'm sitting where I am regardless. Ankarius is scum.

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

If im wrong, then whatever. Pretend I was NKd rather than an obvious mislynch done by scum like Ankarius. She claims I'm scum now, so that fits her fake reads. Feel free, as long as everyone else takes out Ankarius. You'll get plenty of info when she flips. You might go next wisdom.

scum already lost their NK.

Unpack this.

Unpack what? Evee blocked their kill. I'm betting she wouldn't block for people on her wagon, and she certainly wouldn't block for the lurker you replaced for Ankarius. Could've been on someone who didn't vote her. Maybe someone like me perhaps? Maybe Zito. Not you.

100% what happened was Ankarius' replacee rolled scum, got scared, lurked til replaced. Ankarius comes in, pretends to be too drained to be town, does anti-town things, people just don't care, because nobody in this game cares about scummy play it seems. Otherwise, zito, screen, or Ankarius would've already been lynched. Theres literally no other player that's as scummy as those three.

If youre town, this is 100% you disliking her playstyle and not actually finding anything scummy with her

Listen to people who have actually played with Ank

Name a single reason brass is scummier than Zito, Ank, or Srceen. I can name many for each of those three. Name one for brass, beyond lurking.

I think you're scum buddies with her now, tbh. Brass push is terrible.

Tywin might actually be scum this game.

That was my thought too
What do you think it means about brass? First thought was "hes trying to save his buddy by calling it a lurker lynch" but this feels too obvious

This is how I feel about you trying to save Ank, an unconfirmed, terribly scummy player on Day 2. Yeah, you're too obvious.

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

All these posts are you going on and on about how scummy I am but not actually substantiating them. You're grandstanding because you don't actually have a case. You have a point that I could be defending Zito if we're both scum and my predecessor replacing out without making a single post here, which is very weak by itself.

But apparently I'm scum for a lot more than that, despite your inability to explain it.

This is scum. Lynch this.

[Ankamius]

Ignore the zombie, trying to attribute anything from it is pointless.

[Ankamius]

Worst

Thoughts

[Ankamius]

Literally nothing you've written matters. My case doesn't have to be good to make Brass' case any better. You have NOT given a case on him, and I've asked three times now. You keep deflecting back on my case towards you, but you cannot do anything with it besides try to discredit it with your own buzzwords. Regardless, your case on brass does not exist. You vote him because he lurks, yet you replaced a lurker, therefore I can vote you for the exact same reasoning. Everything else is sugar on top of my own read. I don't have to convince YOU that you're scum. I just have to keep voting you until I'm inevitably mislynched or NK'd, and then you'll have to contend with others.

Why are you using the votes on Brass as a deflection from having to substantiate your reads?

You literally only bring it up when you're asked to answer a question that you apparently can't answer.

If you actually cared about it, you would've asked when you caught up since you already gave a lot of thoughts on them.

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

I thought I revoted but apparently not.

[Ankamius]

So i admittedly skimmed, but I noticed only a few things of note:

Zito disappeared, Ankarius and Srceen continue to hard defend everyone i SR, Ankarius/Srceen say Wisdom, The Worst, Sugar are the scum team? Scum likely refuse to let Zito, Ankarius, or Srceen keep a wagon.

Brassharald is lurker vote to get that out of the way, but it's less substance than Zito, Ankarius, or Srceen, and he's basically a shitty compromise vote.

I get that scum wont let their buddies get lynched, and there's still a full scum team to prevent it. Even if Zito is not scum, Ankarius and Srceen still are my top SRs besides him. Nothing said has changed that. I don't care about Ankarius and Srceen's sort-of-but-not-really weak SR on each other. Every partner distances. I don't care that both TR him (Ankarius calls Zito their top TR beside ND). Scum Ankarius, who sees Zito not on their team, would have cause to hard defend him. Its decent town cred for whenever he does inevitably get lynched. Scum Ankarius with Scum Zito would also obviously defend Zito, because losing a buddy on what's essentially still D1 (since evee still protects after death) is near game-over for them. Its the worst case scenerio. Any scum buddy of Ankarius would also push elsewhere from them for all the same reasons. Essentially, I'm saying no scum worth their salt would hard-bus a teammate today based on the situation they find themselves in. 100% theyd try to deflect and redirect into someone else, barring just being new to mafia (or bad at it) in general. This is my rock solid belief at least. So yes, Ankarius is damned if they do and damned if they don't, but mostly damned because I hard SR her independently, and her hard defence of Zito (yet without actual reason, unlike ND) is icing on the cake. Their discredit of my case on them, zito, and Srceen (and Ankarius has tried quite hard to discredit and dismiss my cases as being a 'trap') is normal scum 101 play. I'd do it too if I were scum.

So... back to the other elephant in the room: Brass is very null to me. He's probably gonna be lynched as the compromise wagon between town and scum. Scum want anyone but them lynched, and town can't stick a wagon on zito, ankarius, or Srceen. Pretty obvious imo why, but we'll see. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd rather bet on that than go anywhere else. I'm just repeating what I've said many times, but I'm pretty sold with it. IF say, Ankarius flipped town, I'd be more willing to go with their reads that contradict mine, but I won't until that happens. My mind has been made up until I see either one of my reads flip town, or someone outside of them have flipped scum. Maybe Zitos replacement can change my mind here, but Ankarius and Srceen need to go. That's just good game sense imo.

So... despite being gone the last few days, I'm still 100% where I was from the beginning. I'd rather lynch between my original pool than to go elsewhere based off of a push made by my SRs, and

a brass lynch gives absolutely zero information regardless of his flip imo. He's a decent wagon, but only because he's null to almost everyone, not because he's obvious scum. Imo, his flip doesn't help much, especially if it's town. We will be back to our preconceived notions from D2, probably down an obvious townie (unless evee keeps protecting even though theyre dead, and I wouldnt pay attention if it were me), same as the Evee lynch did absolutely nothing to help town.

It was a great scum lynch, which is why Srceen quickhammered. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see why he'd do that over actually demanding a claim. He's gotten almost zero real pressure from hammering, has given very little content, and nobody cares. He's still scum in my eyes.

Zito isn't here and his replacement might be worth waiting for. I don't see any reason to switch gears by sheeping Ankarius on wisdom or the worst. Idc about Eddie at all today. ND looks super town to me for multiple reasons, and pairing ND with Zito isn't likely. Sugar Cain is null, because I haven't engaged with them and probably won't waste my time yet.

Brassharald is meh for me, but I'd not be opposed to their lynch. I just don't see any real point to it, since even if they are scum, they'd be the weakest link so far and gives no real info regardless of flip (to me at least).

Kokichi isn't in my radar either, and they won't be even if Zito flipped town or ND flipped scum. Theyre solidly town imo. ActionDan might be scum, but I don't have a case. I'm forgetting people probably, but I can't remember who.

Worst case scenario for me is Wisdom, the worst, and someone like Eddie or Sugar flip scum, since I've been giving them a pass all game in search of monsters to slay. That's a possibility, but I won't consider it barring my original reads being proven wrong, and the fact that they can't get a wagon to stick in the way a townie like Evee could just secures my confirmation bias. I want one of them gone before I'll consider switching gears.

VOTE: Ankarius


All of town should join me on this righteous crusade against the murderous infidels. Deus Vult!

Just by the way he shifts across his catchup post, I wouldn't find it unlikely at all.

Just reexamining the start of the day is connecting the dots even more for a Train-Brass scumteam.

I might actually be close to the point where I can solve the game just with a couple flips. I think determining scum's game plan today will completely expose them, and what I'm seeing is sloppy execution.

Tywin - Brass, sorry.

I'm on my tablet.

If youre town, this is 100% you disliking her playstyle and not actually finding anything scummy with her

Listen to people who have actually played with Ank

Name a single reason brass is scummier than Zito, Ank, or Srceen. I can name many for each of those three. Name one for brass, beyond lurking.

I think you're scum buddies with her now, tbh. Brass push is terrible.

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

The 'case' you gave on me in your catchup can be simplified to scumreading me because I defended Zito when he was the primary wagon of the day. You also have yet to answer my questions, which involves me asking why my followup play would make sense if I'm scum and Zito's town.

And this?

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

This is buzzwords and smoke, not a case.

Spoiler:

Feel free to lynch me first if town agrees to hang Ankarius tomorrow. I'll take that trade, since scum already lost their NK. It's still a win.

Wisdom might be scum with Ankarius actually? He's vote hopped on almost all obvious town, aside from Zito.

Anyway, I'm sitting where I am regardless. Ankarius is scum.

I'm certain because the pushback. She's done nothing townie all game. I fundamentally dislike her reads, playstyle, lack of substance, deflections, hard defences of scummy players, buddying/flip flopping whenever it seems beneficial and opportune, etc. She's scum.

If im wrong, then whatever. Pretend I was NKd rather than an obvious mislynch done by scum like Ankarius. She claims I'm scum now, so that fits her fake reads. Feel free, as long as everyone else takes out Ankarius. You'll get plenty of info when she flips. You might go next wisdom.

scum already lost their NK.

Unpack this.

Unpack what? Evee blocked their kill. I'm betting she wouldn't block for people on her wagon, and she certainly wouldn't block for the lurker you replaced for Ankarius. Could've been on someone who didn't vote her. Maybe someone like me perhaps? Maybe Zito. Not you.

100% what happened was Ankarius' replacee rolled scum, got scared, lurked til replaced. Ankarius comes in, pretends to be too drained to be town, does anti-town things, people just don't care, because nobody in this game cares about scummy play it seems. Otherwise, zito, screen, or Ankarius would've already been lynched. Theres literally no other player that's as scummy as those three.

If youre town, this is 100% you disliking her playstyle and not actually finding anything scummy with her

Listen to people who have actually played with Ank

Name a single reason brass is scummier than Zito, Ank, or Srceen. I can name many for each of those three. Name one for brass, beyond lurking.

I think you're scum buddies with her now, tbh. Brass push is terrible.

Tywin might actually be scum this game.

That was my thought too
What do you think it means about brass? First thought was "hes trying to save his buddy by calling it a lurker lynch" but this feels too obvious

This is how I feel about you trying to save Ank, an unconfirmed, terribly scummy player on Day 2. Yeah, you're too obvious.

Hey Tywin, do you have a case?

What's your case on brass?

Lynching a lurker on D2 means you should be lynched first, since you replaced for one D1.

I gave my case. You have none on brass. He's just the easy lynchbait. The most you can say is he is a lurker, yet so was the person you replaced. Guess that means you gots to go by your own reasoning. Deus Vult.

All these posts are you going on and on about how scummy I am but not actually substantiating them. You're grandstanding because you don't actually have a case. You have a point that I could be defending Zito if we're both scum and my predecessor replacing out without making a single post here, which is very weak by itself.

But apparently I'm scum for a lot more than that, despite your inability to explain it.

This is scum. Lynch this.

Literally nothing you've written matters. My case doesn't have to be good to make Brass' case any better. You have NOT given a case on him, and I've asked three times now. You keep deflecting back on my case towards you, but you cannot do anything with it besides try to discredit it with your own buzzwords. Regardless, your case on brass does not exist. You vote him because he lurks, yet you replaced a lurker, therefore I can vote you for the exact same reasoning. Everything else is sugar on top of my own read. I don't have to convince YOU that you're scum. I just have to keep voting you until I'm inevitably mislynched or NK'd, and then you'll have to contend with others.

This slot is

scum

.

It doesn't matter what my thoughts on Brass are because I'm not bragging about how stunning my case on him is.

Tywin keeps talking about how good his case on me is, but he hides behind my Brass scumread to avoid going into it.

Just from the posts I've seen this game, he clearly has the ability to make cases since he's been going in-depth on Zito for a lot of early day two.
The amount of support for lynching me is not enough to just go by general word of mouth anymore, most people have moved on to other things by now.
Tywin says he at least skimmed, which would be enough to see that the votes on me have waned over time.

So he proceeds to grandstand his having a case instead of just making it and trying to push the lynch back onto me.

This is scum behavior. He doesn't have a case, but he's put all his cards down on this one play so he has to see it through. Brass is irrelevant because I'm literally just compromising on my scumreads, which I've given precedent for having throughout a lot of the day phase despite Tywin just deciding that it's a lurker lynch.

This slot is 100% scum. I'm not going to compromise on any of my other scumreads until this dead.

[Ankamius]

Can you show me what you mean Wisdom?

[Ankamius]

Can you show me what you mean Wisdom?

about what

Tywin playing like this in other games.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Tywin


I think Ankamius is also voting Tywin. VC wrong?

Yeah, he switched but if Ty is scum, why was he so against thr Eevee wagon?

Why would he do that if scum? Does scum usually stick their neck out for a villa everyone else is sr?

If a wagon has so much support on it, then you actually gain more from being outwardly against it than for it, especially if it goes through.

It's a bit messier and difficult to control if the wagon doesn't dissipate, but that slot flipping later makes you look town.

[Ankamius]

Well rn, I’m thinking Ty, Zito/Fitz(sp?), the worst, srceen, Sugar are town.

So, I can’t see voting for any of them.

I seriously considered switching to Brass before confirmed scum parked itself on his wagon. But until I can figure out which one, I’m staying off of it.

Can you go into worst and srceen for me please? I'm already leaning that way due to Zito-wagon play, but I'm not comfortable placing them in any confident town spot in my reads yet.

[Ankamius]

Actually, I’m thinking brass was bussed and scum parked their vote to shade his voters, so . . .

UNVOTE: ank

VOTE: brass

According to Sugar, he was one of the ones pushing for my mislynch and I remember being very sus of his reasons. Iirc, he basically just sheeped Wisdom, right?

IOW, because it’s confirmed scum, the 4th vote is the converse of what it would usually mean. If confirmed scum was the hammer, then my wolf theory would hold up. So, voters on brass wagon are spewed town.

Am I missing an assumption here?

[Ankamius]

Nancy, please.

Is your wagon assumption sound? How did you reach the conclusion that the three of us are town from beginning to end?

[Ankamius]

Actually, I’m thinking brass was bussed and scum parked their vote to shade his voters, so . . .

UNVOTE: ank

VOTE: brass

According to Sugar, he was one of the ones pushing for my mislynch and I remember being very sus of his reasons. Iirc, he basically just sheeped Wisdom, right?

IOW, because it’s confirmed scum, the 4th vote is the converse of what it would usually mean. If confirmed scum was the hammer, then my wolf theory would hold up. So, voters on brass wagon are spewed town.

Am I missing an assumption here?

Statistically, the 4th vote on a wagon if wolf, is 75%. Onviously, the 4th vote can also be town. The reason for this, is that wolves ideally don’t want to push bad wagons or even worse, be the last vote on any mislynch. I would never base any read solely on this theory because it only applies to scum votes not town. In this case however, the 4th vote is from confirmed scum: to early to hammer but late enough to simultaneously shade that wagon’s voters and halt that wagon.

It’s no shocker that no one placed a 5th vote on brass after that and others jumped to a different wagon.

I’m also thinking scum wants a mislynch on Ty, because Ty objected to that wagon. If Ty was scum, he wouldn’t out himself as opposing the brass wagon, then parking a confirmed scum vote on it.

Here's the problem: You can't have me as a strong townread because of brass-wagon mechanics and state that scum wants a mislynch on Tywin; the only person that makes sense in the latter is me.

[Ankamius]

See, this is why I say to ignore the zombie.

It's true that having a confirmed scum on a wagon means that it's less town-driven, but the way it's done is also too blatantly obvious that it's the case which means scum are more likely to be doing it to try to derail a wagon... but if scum are trying to derail the wagon, doesn't that make brass most likely scum? But then if brass is scum, aren't there better uses for the vote that are more likely to succeed? So therefore brass is more likely town... etc.

It's an endless loop no matter where you start because you can always find something to 'disprove' whichever assumption you're at in the chain.

I think scum did it primarily to cause WIFOM. Why would scum want to create WIFOM now? That's hard to determine at this point in the game since we don't have enough information to go on for a reasonable analysis, so it's pointless to analyze the zombie vote right now.

The best way town can use the zombie is to dismiss it entirely. Letting the zombie influence wagons and thoughts is letting

scum

determine the game state.

[Ankamius]

Nancy, I think you're drawing erroneous conclusions from the zombie and attributing reads that are way too strong based on it and little else.

Is there anything else from the wagons that jumps out to you? Any links? Any of your current reads giving you another read somewhere else?

[Ankamius]

By the way, since I'm not sure where the brass wagon is at:

Please let Havingfitz be caught up before the day ends.

[Ankamius]

No.

[Ankamius]

Actually that reminds me:

Nancy, how do you feel about the Zito wagon hovering at L-2 at the start of the day?

[Ankamius]

Official Vote Count 2-3

Papa Zito

(5): Kokichi Oma, Tywin Lannister, brassherald, Wisdom, the worst

(L-2)

ActionDan

(2): Nancy Drew 39, Eddie Cane

Tywin Lannister

(1): Papa Zito

Eddie Cane

(1): ActionDan

brassherald

(1): Ankamius

Not Voting

(3): HarmlessZombie, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

[Ankamius]

On post 241, Eeveelution Army was hammered.

Official Vote Count 1-FINAL

EeveeLution Army

(7): Eddie Cane, Wisdom, the worst, Kokichi Oma, Nancy Drew 39, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

(LYNCHED)

Papa Zito

(2): Tywin Lannister, brassherald

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ActionDan

Kokichi Oma

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): MechaGoomba, EeveeLution Army

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Previous Vote Count

That was the fastest D1 I've ever seen.

[Ankamius]

See, this is why I say to ignore the zombie.

It's true that having a confirmed scum on a wagon means that it's less town-driven, but the way it's done is also too blatantly obvious that it's the case which means scum are more likely to be doing it to try to derail a wagon... but if scum are trying to derail the wagon, doesn't that make brass most likely scum? But then if brass is scum, aren't there better uses for the vote that are more likely to succeed? So therefore brass is more likely town... etc.

It's an endless loop no matter where you start because you can always find something to 'disprove' whichever assumption you're at in the chain.

I think scum did it primarily to cause WIFOM. Why would scum want to create WIFOM now? That's hard to determine at this point in the game since we don't have enough information to go on for a reasonable analysis, so it's pointless to analyze the zombie vote right now.

The best way town can use the zombie is to dismiss it entirely. Letting the zombie influence wagons and thoughts is letting

scum

determine the game state.

But they create WIFOM in order to further their agenda.

Mafia doesn’t want us to lynch brass, which is exactly why we should, is my point. It’s all about the timing of the vote. If HZ had hammered, it would mean the exact opposite.

BUT THEY WANTED To KILL This WAGON. Why would you want to ignore that?

This is the type of info that's more useful when we have a much better idea of what scum's plan was today. It's a shot in the dark today.

[Ankamius]

On post 241, Eeveelution Army was hammered.

Official Vote Count 1-FINAL

EeveeLution Army

(7): Eddie Cane, Wisdom, the worst, Kokichi Oma, Nancy Drew 39, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

(LYNCHED)

Papa Zito

(2): Tywin Lannister, brassherald

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ActionDan

Kokichi Oma

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): MechaGoomba, EeveeLution Army

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Previous Vote Count

That was the fastest D1 I've ever seen.

Interesting, brass was on the Zito wagon? What do you make of this?

The interesting thing to me is that he voted Zito, then stated later after being asked that Eevee (now L-2) was scummy too. I don't think the act itself was suspicious at all since L-1 is a big deal for a wagon and I don't really blame him for choosing another POI to vote, but the way he went about it subtly changes the most likely motivation behind it from "vote on somebody else but on eevee in spirit" to "idk if I should put eevee at L-1 so I'll join this new wagon while keeping my options open."

[Ankamius]

Wisdom:

Can you show me what you mean Wisdom?

about what

Tywin playing like this in other games.

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: Tywin Lannister

Just in case.

I am waiting for havingfitz, but I also want to get an updated readslist out and that requires sorting Tywin's case to see if Wisdom's right or not.

[Ankamius]

@Mod: Prod ActionDan please

[Ankamius]

Wisdom why are you ignoring my question?

[Ankamius]

Fine.

I'll put out an updated reads list later today.

[Ankamius]

Nancy Drew 39
Papa Zito

ActionDan

Tywin Lannister

Sugar Cain
the worst

Srceenplay
Wisdom

Eddie Cane
brassherald

Kokichi Oma

This is roughly where I'm at from town to scum right now

Nancy Drew 39
Havingfitz

Wisdom

the worst
Srceenplay

ActionDan
Sugar Cain

Eddie Cane

brassherald
Kokichi Oma

Tywin Lannister

That's roughly where I'm at now?

[Ankamius]

Havingfitz and ActionDan are somewhat fragile reads. ActionDan not having any content since the mini-wagon on him is waning my townread on him and Havingfitz has some probability of having been instructed to pocket me, although I'm really hoping that's not the case because that means there's just one more town that's on town's overall wavelength.

[Ankamius]

You noticed Kokichi's scummy day 1 posting, Fitz. That either means we're on a similar wavelength or you're trying to pocket me (which is also evident by your general reads list).

I still think the former is a lot more likely, but not confirmed.

[Ankamius]

(which is also evident by your general reads list)

*both of which

[Ankamius]

Koki always reads scummy as shit, especially D1

What's new?

Then why have I only ever seen Zito/Fitz and myself comment on it?

[Ankamius]

His scummy D1 posting?

[Ankamius]

^Pretty much

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Tywin Lannister

[Ankamius]

Spoiler:

It's rare his brand of intransigence after earning the stink eye from almost everyone in thread (ignoring correlations) comes from scum.

unrelated, @brass, if you can't understand a even a single of those reads my desire to explain any to all of them dissipates completely.

I'm just asking for some analysis.

I can understand and agree with some, but I'm looking for thought processes.

This sentence right here.

Im not ashamed to admit this went over my head. Can you ELI5?

It is a scum mindset. Town has an agenda when looking to get more information from people because they need them to get reads. Scum (especially weaker scum) don't have to care, their reads are all fake unless they're hunting another team or a serial killer anyways.

Brass isn't looking to further his own reads from AD, he's scraping his mind for something to attack or attach on to.

what how and why
i dont see anything wrong with brass's post

Brass asked him to post the reasoning behind any of his reads, even though he apparently already agreed with some of them? What read(s) is he looking for info on and why?

Its like I said before, town has an agenda behind questions. Brass doesn't.

The worst and brassherald are already dropping into scumreads just from pages one and two.

So wisdom/eddie/brass?

This team actually makes some level of sense, but I think Wisdom would've aided in the push on me instead of going in his own direction after the Zito wagon fell apart if that was the case. He's seen me be a competent town before and might remember from a while ago roughly how I get reads, but I don't think he believes I'm enough of a threat to have that deter him, even if this team means I had basically pointed the finger at both his buddies as soon as I came in.

Nancy Drew 39
Papa Zito

ActionDan

Tywin Lannister

Sugar Cain
the worst

Srceenplay
Wisdom

Eddie Cane
brassherald

Kokichi Oma

This is roughly where I'm at from town to scum right now;

Nancy is just blatantly town. Very off base, but there hasn't been a single shred of scum intent behind any of her pushes on me.

Zito is town by the way he's been going about this game, the gamestate, and the fact that the majority of his critics are south of the null line.
ActionDan had a couple pretty strongly town posts; I have somewhat distant memories of playing with him as both town and scum, and my gut is telling me this is closer to town-him. It's not enough to be blatant town and I could be misremembering, but I don't think it's very likely at this point.

Tywin hasn't really been around for the past 10 or so pages and the reason I was townreading him so heavily in the first place might not actually be as strong as I thought it was initially now that I have a better picture of the gamestate. I'm still reasonably confident he's town, but not quite enough to be super confident anymore. I'll wait until he has time to come on and post again before I judge it.

Sugar Cain looks a lot better than they used to; I don't think I'm especially good at reading Nero or Rangal effectively, but both their posts individually feel townish so far. It's entirely possible I'm being blindsided, but I'll have a better opinion on whether that's the case or not over time as more posts come out.
The worst honestly just looks like a town sheep. Nothing particularly town from this slot, but nothing all that scummy either. Something about the way they're handling the game doesn't feel like scum-driven, but it's very... hard to tell.

Srceenplay's push on me was scummy, but now I'm seeing a possibility that he's town that saw a potential slam dunk by how he has been playing it. He got a lot of support from his push on me and there's not a whole lot of pushback outside of Wisdom, who is also reading scummy to a lot of people. I think scum would've handled that differently so I'm a lot less confident that the push in itself was from scum. However, nothing has felt especially town from them and that only minimizes the scumread. Light-scum.
Wisdom is giving me the same feeling he did the time I caught him as scum in Unbalanced II; I just don't ever feel anything town from him. I know he has a good scumgame and I can see his actions being to manipulate things towards his own goals, but the main thing that's making me hesitate in calling him scum is that I don't think he would outright defend me like this. He knows very well how to shut me down (and that I can be a strong town when I'm not) and if anything, he's shied away from going that route. Light-scum here too, but it's a fragile read and has a lot of potential to go south real quick.

Eddie Cane... I can't get a read on his thought processes. The fact that his two scumreads are me and the worst suggests to me that he's trying to keep town from coming together, but even that's hard to tell because this slot is completely useless at saying anything readable.
Brassherald has given me the same feeling every time he's posted. Nothing about what he tries to engage feels like he's working towards anything; it feels like he's trying to look busy and coast.

Kokichi Oma is my pick for scum if I had to choose only one in this game. He's been sheeping really bad wagons (Zito and me, although his justification for jumping ship onto my wagon was horrible too), his posts around the Eevee wagon are scummy, he supported Srceen's bad push on me, etc. He's not trying to solve the game, he's coasting on the towncred that he somehow got on day one. He spent more than half the day so far taking potshots at whoever he can get away with sniping at.

On post 241, Eeveelution Army was hammered.

Official Vote Count 1-FINAL

EeveeLution Army

(7): Eddie Cane, Wisdom, the worst, Kokichi Oma, Nancy Drew 39, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

(LYNCHED)

Papa Zito

(2): Tywin Lannister, brassherald

Nancy Drew 39

(1): ActionDan

Kokichi Oma

(1): Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): MechaGoomba, EeveeLution Army

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Previous Vote Count

That was the fastest D1 I've ever seen.

Interesting, brass was on the Zito wagon? What do you make of this?

The interesting thing to me is that he voted Zito, then stated later after being asked that Eevee (now L-2) was scummy too. I don't think the act itself was suspicious at all since L-1 is a big deal for a wagon and I don't really blame him for choosing another POI to vote, but the way he went about it subtly changes the most likely motivation behind it from "vote on somebody else but on eevee in spirit" to "idk if I should put eevee at L-1 so I'll join this new wagon while keeping my options open."

This is every single post I've ever made this game about why I'm scumreading brass.

[Ankamius]

Essentially: Someone at some point told me that brass uses seemingly weird methods to get reads and gamesolve, but every indication I've ever got from him is that he isn't trying to get reads and gamesolve.

It's a bit of a subtle thing but it's mostly the word choice and the order that he puts thoughts out that pings me more than what his actual content itself is.

[Ankamius]

The zombie is represented by the alt account, Harmless Zombie. It is controllable both directly (via a login) and indirectly (via PM) by the mafia.

@Mod: This statement can be interpreted two different ways. Does this statement mean that mafia control it via PM and via login, or do mafia control it via PM and not necessarily via login?

[Ankamius]

Tywin, you understand that there was success in making people wary of the brass wagon via the zombie vote, right?

[Ankamius]

After I'm lynched, and thus two very bad misslynched occurred in a row,

please look at who were on the wagons more closely. There's been zero analysis, and it's not good. Try it after please.

I'm glad to see you haven't read my posts at all.

[Ankamius]

So scum control the zombie. Zombie vote is on me. I'm the leading wagon. Ank moved to me after.

This is also Tywin not reading my posts at all.

[Ankamius]

I'd be up for lynching Tywin at any point except for the fact that I want to talk to Mollie first.

And whoever our new ActionDan is.

[Ankamius]

Tywin, you understand that there was success in making people wary of the brass wagon via the zombie vote, right?

You left his wagon to jump back on me after his vote. You're obv scum imo, and even though I can't convince anyone of that, you'll hopefully have to deal with some shit after I'm gone. If not, then I'll just consider it an unavoidable loss and ignore it. These games happen.

Are you still not reading my posts or are you ignoring that I've stated multiple times that I'm waiting for people to show up and do things before a lynch happens and I'm specifically unvoting when wagons get close to a lynch to avoid that?

[Ankamius]

Really interesting that the mod skipped over my question; probably meant to be ambiguous on purpose in that case.

I'm now even less interested in taking the zombie into account on anything except raw numbers on the wagon it's on.

[Ankamius]

The zombie is represented by the alt account, Harmless Zombie. It is controllable both directly (via a login) and indirectly (via PM) by the mafia.

@Mod: This statement can be interpreted two different ways. Does this statement mean that mafia control it via PM and via login, or do mafia control it via PM and not necessarily via login?

[Ankamius]

Tywin:

I spelled out pretty damn clearly why I'm scumreading you to the level I am.

It's a fact that you've been saying you've been scumreading me to the same extent that I am now scumreading you for, except you have no actual case for it. The only thing that resembles a natural read on me is because... I defended Zito. You never answered my list of questions for you, so I'm going to assume that you don't have an answer for the case where I'm scum and Zito is town, so therefore your point only works if I'm also scum with Zito/havingfitz.

Other than that, I've asked you to substantiate what you're scumreading me for and all you've done is rephrase the same nonsense and just call me obvscum every single time.

You're not scumhunting. Your reads haven't changed since the beginning of the day. You claim to have read but you don't see the breadcrumbs showing that I've not only been scumreading brass for a very long time, but I've also been showing why. I've explained my reads and explained why they change. I've explained why my read on you went from town to scum immediately when it happened.

The fact is, I've been forming my reads organically and you have not. I don't understand why you've decided that trying to deathtunnel me was the play when you had every chance to adjust yourself to the gamestate and maintain the townreads that a lot of people still had on you, but you've effectively dug yourself into a hole as a result.

If somehow you're town this game, then your view on how the game works is very narrow. I gave you a chance to substantiate your suspicion and show where you were coming from immediately after your initial case, but you ignored it and started arguing with buzzwords instead of a substantiated case. You started responding to me asking you for your case by asking me what my case on brass is. Your go-to is "Ank is obvscum, lynch her" despite what you're confronted with. That's scum mentality.

And I'm going to state this again,

please

double check my name.

[Ankamius]

*no matter what you're confronted with.

[Ankamius]

The only thing Ank or Srceen have done is discredit all my posts with insults, and backhanded jabs, meant to compromise me emotionally and to make town see me as a worthless/insignificant person who is just flailing, rather than someone with serious reads on players he's been calling out since Day 1.

Anyways, regardless of your alignment, I don't mean to give this impression and I apologize for it.

Spoiler:

Tywin:

Well, first, before I say anything, please double check my name.

Next, some questions for you:

1. I've spent a lot of today calling Zito leaning town based on primarily the wagon on him. Zito lately has been under less pressure than any other time today and I'm still generally distrusted and don't have any significant influence; why would I suddenly declare Zito to be obvtown after the direct pressure on me is slackened?

2. What do you mean by sheeping me on Wisdom or the worst? By this token, what are your opinions on my reads since you also mentioned in that post that you would give more credence to them if I flipped town.

3. Assuming the case of me-scum and town-zito you mentioned, what does the game state progressing the way it has mean for that? You say I'm looking to get towncred for his inevitable lynch, but it turned into me becoming a competing wagon for him briefly before the game state ballooned into a mess of other wagons. What do you believe my scum agenda is with this progression?

4. I was referring to one specific case (I believe one you made early on when Zito was at L-2 about why he wasn't lynched yet(?)) when I said you fell into a trap. What was your impression since you referred to cases in the plural form?

Worst case scenario for me is Wisdom, the worst, and someone like Eddie or Sugar flip scum, since I've been giving them a pass all game in search of monsters to slay. That's a possibility, but I won't consider it barring my original reads being proven wrong, and

the fact that they can't get a wagon to stick in the way a townie like Evee could just secures my confirmation bias. I want one of them gone before I'll consider switching gears.

One thing I would like you to show your work on as well is this right here. What's different about the wagons your referring to from Eevee?

I'm reposting my initial questions for you after your initial case that, as far as I know, you have never answered.

If you truly are town,

engage me

. Show me that my reason for scumreading you is false. I gave you an opportunity before and you chose not to take it. I'm now giving you the opportunity again.

[Ankamius]

Alright, I think my happy spiral is over.

Good night.

Mollie talk to me about your thoughts tomorrow

[Ankamius]

Here's my reads list at some point in the game a while ago, mollie. It's changed since then but it's still a decent indicator of where my head has been at this game.

Nancy Drew 39
Papa Zito

ActionDan

Tywin Lannister

Sugar Cain
the worst

Srceenplay
Wisdom

Eddie Cane
brassherald

Kokichi Oma

This is roughly where I'm at from town to scum right now;

Nancy is just blatantly town. Very off base, but there hasn't been a single shred of scum intent behind any of her pushes on me.

Zito is town by the way he's been going about this game, the gamestate, and the fact that the majority of his critics are south of the null line.
ActionDan had a couple pretty strongly town posts; I have somewhat distant memories of playing with him as both town and scum, and my gut is telling me this is closer to town-him. It's not enough to be blatant town and I could be misremembering, but I don't think it's very likely at this point.

Tywin hasn't really been around for the past 10 or so pages and the reason I was townreading him so heavily in the first place might not actually be as strong as I thought it was initially now that I have a better picture of the gamestate. I'm still reasonably confident he's town, but not quite enough to be super confident anymore. I'll wait until he has time to come on and post again before I judge it.

Sugar Cain looks a lot better than they used to; I don't think I'm especially good at reading Nero or Rangal effectively, but both their posts individually feel townish so far. It's entirely possible I'm being blindsided, but I'll have a better opinion on whether that's the case or not over time as more posts come out.
The worst honestly just looks like a town sheep. Nothing particularly town from this slot, but nothing all that scummy either. Something about the way they're handling the game doesn't feel like scum-driven, but it's very... hard to tell.

Srceenplay's push on me was scummy, but now I'm seeing a possibility that he's town that saw a potential slam dunk by how he has been playing it. He got a lot of support from his push on me and there's not a whole lot of pushback outside of Wisdom, who is also reading scummy to a lot of people. I think scum would've handled that differently so I'm a lot less confident that the push in itself was from scum. However, nothing has felt especially town from them and that only minimizes the scumread. Light-scum.
Wisdom is giving me the same feeling he did the time I caught him as scum in Unbalanced II; I just don't ever feel anything town from him. I know he has a good scumgame and I can see his actions being to manipulate things towards his own goals, but the main thing that's making me hesitate in calling him scum is that I don't think he would outright defend me like this. He knows very well how to shut me down (and that I can be a strong town when I'm not) and if anything, he's shied away from going that route. Light-scum here too, but it's a fragile read and has a lot of potential to go south real quick.

Eddie Cane... I can't get a read on his thought processes. The fact that his two scumreads are me and the worst suggests to me that he's trying to keep town from coming together, but even that's hard to tell because this slot is completely useless at saying anything readable.
Brassherald has given me the same feeling every time he's posted. Nothing about what he tries to engage feels like he's working towards anything; it feels like he's trying to look busy and coast.

Kokichi Oma is my pick for scum if I had to choose only one in this game. He's been sheeping really bad wagons (Zito and me, although his justification for jumping ship onto my wagon was horrible too), his posts around the Eevee wagon are scummy, he supported Srceen's bad push on me, etc. He's not trying to solve the game, he's coasting on the towncred that he somehow got on day one. He spent more than half the day so far taking potshots at whoever he can get away with sniping at.

[Ankamius]

I want to engage mollie mainly because I want to see if she gives off pocketing or manipulation vibes.

I think she has the highest ability to read me on the site, so I fully expect her to townread me in this game, but I think I can read her well enough to tell whether it's genuine or fake. Right now, it's inconclusive.

[Ankamius]

If we don't lynch Tywin, I want Kokichi instead.

[Ankamius]

Idk mollie, Eddie decided to just start sheeping my vote but I'm not even sure why exactly he's suddenly townreading me this hard.

[Ankamius]

Do I have to read through stuff again

[Ankamius]

I don't want mollie lynched today, I think I'll be able to confidently have her sorted in time.

Plus she's someone I can work with pretty easily, so it's a boon to have her around if town.

[Ankamius]

I'll get to this game more tomorrow.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

I read up to the present and I think this is where I want to go today since Tywin is off the table now it seems.

Tywin ignoring my reach out is not impressing me either way.

[Ankamius]

I'm pretty confident on Kat town too.

Thinking about it, I'm less convinced that my reasoning for townreading TW and Srceen aren't very convincing anymore. Maybe I'll look there, especially TW since I have had a weird feeling that that slot isn't town.

[Ankamius]

Okay, I'm here and going to reread everything that has been posted since when I left the game alone yesterday.

[Ankamius]

The lining up lynches argument is probably the most retarded I've heard over and over in the time I've been playing mafia.

amirite?

This is the type of tell that is useless outside of specific edge cases, but yes this is not one of them.

I don't want mollie lynched today, I think I'll be able to confidently have her sorted in time.

Plus she's someone I can work with pretty easily, so it's a boon to have her around if town.

Well she's scum, but sure. What am I Ank?

What do you mean, what are you?

[Ankamius]

Okay, Eddie, serious question: do I know you? I feel like I should recognize your posting style but I just don't have a name to put to it.

[Ankamius]

So I read like the last five or so pages around when AD replaced out

VOTE: Mollie

Starting with Eddie/Wis/Nancy/Ank as all fairly obvtown, worst probtown and mollie probscum as a result of comp shenanigans and garbage eddie push

Will give a more generous read later but these felt right when I skimmed 8 hours ago

are u read up?

No lmao should I bother

What are you reading on Eddie?

Also, can you go back to the start of day 2 and read through until roughly when Zito's wagon stalls out? I want to know what you think about it since I think there's a lot of info that can be gained from that wagon.

[Ankamius]

its not really off your play dan was just in his town game lol hes dogshit as scum and the only scum indicative thing was him flaking

I've seen Dan do that as town multiple times too. It's NAI.

[Ankamius]

Kok is ... interesting. I keep forgetting about him.

Can someone tell me if hes lynchbaity or scum this game? I'll decide whether to sheep them

He's scummy as hell. The entire way he's approaching the entire game is not town.

[Ankamius]

havent thought too hard about that yet and was hoping interactions upon replacing in would sort that out. didnt bother reading past page 5 since eddie said it was a waste and i didn't start from page 40 yet

i dont really see why you'd go for kokichi, i guess his reads could be tmi wrt nancy? I don't really have a real reason to say that that's the case though over him just being town and right. I feel like nancy!town's a read he would pick up on quickly as town anyway

1. Kokichi hurriedly joined the Eevee wagon day one and tried to scrape together as much towncred as he could from it.
2. Kokichi then pushed hard for Zito (fitz slot) at the beginning of day 2, all the while trying to get Zito to out the scumread on him. (Sidenote: I think I picked up on what Zito was scumreading Kokichi for just by the way he went about it; it obviously can't be confirmed now, but I can go into that a bit more later if necessary)
3. When I spoke out against the Zito wagon after replacing in, he ignored my reasons for not supporting it and used his 'case' of Zito not pushing for him when Day 2 hit (Sidenote: This is the second half of the reason I think I know what Zito scumread Kokichi for) to switch his vote and try to push me down instead.
4. He tried to push me for a while, but he essentially dropped off the radar entirely once people started coming around to scumreading him. He hasn't actually done anything since early in the day when the pressure on me was at it's highest.

[Ankamius]

Wisdom

Kokichi Oma

Nancy Drew 39
Ankamius
Sugar Cain

pirate mollie

Eddie Cane

Srceenplay

the worst

Katyusha

Tywin Lannister
havingfitz

fitz + srceen? i dont think ive seen any of their posts so thats just sheer poe assuming kokichi + tywin are both town

I understand this particular point isn't very useful to anyone else, but the biggest source of my townread on the Papa Zito/havingfitz slot is the vote + trajectory of Zito's Kokichi read. I can easily see town playing the way he did because I use that tactic myself in a lot of my town games. However, I don't see scum playing the way he did because it not only got him a ton of votes+pressure, but it also didn't gain him anything either. I strongly suspect his scumread on Kokichi either mellowed out or vanished between the day phases, but he didn't try to salvage a read that was no longer valid despite a wagon building up on him. That play is strongly indicative of town.

There's also the wagon stalling at L-2, causing the game as a whole to stall for a while. I believe either scum were just waiting for the L-1 vote to quickhammer, or Tywin was in charge of pushing the wagon down while the others waited (which makes sense since a lot of Tywin's towncred at that point in the game was for Zito-reasons.)

The other reason that's probably town is because when he replaced in, Fitz noticed the same scummy Kokichi posts on day one that I did. As of now, the only people who have noticed them (which I'm assuming since most people had townreads on Kokichi when I replaced in) either as it happened or very shortly after coming into the game was both heads of the Papa Zito slot and myself. I see two possibilities here; either fitz is town and noticed it organically, or he's scum who's trying to find a reason to posture a scumread on a not-very-well-thought-of slot while also being an attempt to pocket me. The first two reasons make the former much more likely in this scenario.

[Ankamius]

Hit me up Anka. If my townreads are townreading you it makes sense for me to work with you.

Okay, the issue I have with you is you consistently look like you're keeping up with the game, but you aren't giving much of your own thoughts or conclusions and you seem to always be caught off guard when I ask (or demand) them from you. Right now, I'm getting the aggressive-coasting vibe from you and you're only currently in the town half of my reads because I'm struggling to justify the way you played around the Zito wagon if you're scum. Otherwise, nothing about your play has looked town to me.

[Ankamius]

Well, you just coulda asked "hey, how do you read Ty?" or something like that instead of trying to subtlely influence her into scum reading Tywin.

I'M NOT SCUM READING TYWIN

, he yells!

U were. Feel like explaining what made you flip your read on him.

dude. I was voicing my thought. My thought was "What if Tywin is actually scum who's playing bad on purpose?" So what did I ask Katyusha? If she thinks that could be the case.

So you

THOUGHT

that Ty was scum that was playing badly but you lied to me earlier when you said you weren't scum reading him.

Why are we not lying this?

um

Wisdom's explanation is the way I interpreted it myself.

[Ankamius]

This is just today’s lynch pool.
Kokichi hasn’t done anything one way or another to be anywhere but null.
Where all of the others have information that points to a scum lynch.

Can you go into what information the lynches in your list gives you please?

[Ankamius]

The lining up lynches argument is probably the most retarded I've heard over and over in the time I've been playing mafia.

amirite?

This is the type of tell that is useless outside of specific edge cases, but yes this is not one of them.

I don't want mollie lynched today, I think I'll be able to confidently have her sorted in time.

Plus she's someone I can work with pretty easily, so it's a boon to have her around if town.

Well she's scum, but sure. What am I Ank?

What do you mean, what are you?

like what's my alignment

I'm also curious your Mollie read rn cause we are about to hammer it probably

I'm not optimistic about her being town, but I haven't seen enough to really put her in one category or another yet.

[Ankamius]

Nancy Drew 39
Havingfitz

Wisdom

the worst
Srceenplay

ActionDan
Sugar Cain

Eddie Cane

brassherald
Kokichi Oma

Tywin Lannister

That's roughly where I'm at now?

Nancy Drew 39
Katyusha

Havingfitz
Wisdom

Sugar Cain
Eddie Cane
the worst

Srceenplay

Pirate Mollie

Kokichi Oma
Tywin Lannister

[Ankamius]

Choo Choo on the Kokichi train

[Ankamius]

Then vote Kokichi. You're wasting your time keeping your vote parked on yourself.

[Ankamius]

I mean, I highly doubt koki decides to bus when other viable lynch options exists. It would be against his wincon.

Also, why are you all against giving me my shots I promise to do the protown thing with them

Can you go into this more please?

[Ankamius]

I am really struggling to see a case where Kokichi-scum doesn't make sense with the game since he fits the scum agenda I've been reading throughout the day like a glove.

[Ankamius]

I'm going to calculate some things. I'm already noticing something very interesting from the VCs and I want to explore it further.

[Ankamius]

Okay, preliminary examinations:

Nancy Drew 39 and Havingfitz are now 100% locktown. In no circumstances am I ever going to lynch these two.

Katyusha is very close to locktown, but not quite there. Still unlikely I'll ever support lynching this.
Wisdom is a lower than Katyusha, but he's unlikely to be scum. Some possibility I'll get paranoid of this slot, but will probably be late in the game if ever.

The lynch pool therefore is in {Eddie Cane, Kokichi Oma, pirate mollie, Srceenplay, Sugar Cain, the worst, Tywin Lannister}

Very interesting note in light of this:

On post 241, Eeveelution Army was hammered.

Official Vote Count 1-FINAL

EeveeLution Army

(7): Eddie Cane,

Wisdom

, the worst, Kokichi Oma,

Nancy Drew 39

, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

(LYNCHED)

Papa Zito

(2): Tywin Lannister, brassherald

Nancy Drew 39

(1):

ActionDan

Kokichi Oma

(1):

Papa Zito

Not Voting

(2): MechaGoomba,

EeveeLution Army

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Previous Vote Count

That was the fastest D1 I've ever seen.

I'm leaving my own slot as not green just so it's easier to follow along with this, but this means Eevee 100% had scum on it unless you believe Tywin Lannister + pirate mollie + myself is scum.

Official Vote Count 2-3

Papa Zito

(5): Kokichi Oma, Tywin Lannister, brassherald,

Wisdom

, the worst

(L-2)

ActionDan

(2):

Nancy Drew 39

, Eddie Cane

Tywin Lannister

(1):

Papa Zito

Eddie Cane

(1):

ActionDan

brassherald

(1): Ankamius

Not Voting

(3): HarmlessZombie, Sugar Cain, Srceenplay

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

This is also very telling. Unless the scumteam is Eddie Cane + Sugar Cain + Srceenplay (or interplaying myself as replacement of one somewhere),

scum was 100% on the Papa Zito wagon.

I independently believe that scum 100% was wanting a Zito lynch, but it looks even worse with this setup in mind.

Plus the fact that Kokichi Oma + Tywin Lannister + brassherald are the opening votes on Zito,

combined with the fact that they're the ones that stay on it the longest

, looks really bad for that list.

I'm also not convinced the worst is town by the Zito wagon anymore. Now that it's pretty clear both from intuition and hard evidence that the Zito wagon stinks, it doesn't look as good that the worst would hop on and then suddenly hop off a page later. The more slots on the Zito wagon flip scum, the more likely the worst is also scum.

[Ankamius]

Plus the fact that Kokichi Oma + Tywin Lannister + brassherald are the opening votes on Zito,

combined with the fact that they're the ones that stay on it the longest

, looks really bad for that list.

Oops, this is a lie.

Those three weren't the ones that stayed on the wagon the longest, they're the ones that tried to rekindle the Zito wagon after that period of votes being spread out over 2/3 the playerlist.

There is 100% scum in this window, at least one. I suspect two, since that list suspiciously coincides with my current scumlist.

[Ankamius]

I'm using VCA alongside all my other thoughts, Wisdom. It's not blind.

[Ankamius]

Kokichi + the worst + (Tywin/mollie)

I'm calling it right now.

[Ankamius]

Ankamius/havingfitz/Nancy Drew 39

Katyusha
Wisdom

Srceenplay
Sugar Cain

Tywin Lannister
pirate mollie

the worst

Kokichi Oma

[Ankamius]

Official Vote Count 2-13

Tywin Lannister

(3): Srceenplay, Eddie Cane, Harmless Zombie

pirate mollie

(3): Wisdom, Nancy Drew 39, Kokichi Oma

Ankamius

(2): Tywin Lannister, the worst

havingfitz

(1): pirate mollie

Eddie Cane

(1): ActionDan

Sugar Cain

(1): Sugar Cain

Kokichi Oma

(1): havingfitz

Not Voting

(1): Ankamius

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-05-09 18:15:00)

Previous Vote Count

This is the VC in question. At the time, Brass wagon had died down a little bit and Tylan was a viable CW. Further more, not only did kokichi vote at a time where putting pressure back on his buddy would be precarious, he was super nonchalant about it.

I'm not saying koki can't be scum but if he is, it isn't going to be with Mollie

Wrong.

Pirate mollie actually has a lot more support than Tywin does despite what the vote counts say. It would've been an undertaking at the least to be able to push it through.