Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[ManWithNoName]

I can understand the reaction to my posting, by the way. I'm just going to have to be better going forward.

I still think Realmen is the best vote at this point in time. Ventriloquist can be on notice, but Realmen has actually been scummy (I will admit again, amusing) but scummy, overall.

[Alchemist21]

Kaede Akamatsu

MariaR
Ouroboros

Wraith
Nero Cain
hebichan
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)

Dunnstral
davesaz

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Ventriloquist

verylazy
Wilky

Alchemist21
Tchill12
Ramcius

ManWithNoName

UNVOTE: Ventriloquist
VOTE: ManWithNoName

MariaR + Ouroboros I have a hard time seeing as scum this game.

The {Wraith, Nero Cain, hebichan, Impossibear} set are close enough together in read strength that they might as well be right on top of each other.

Dunnstral + davesaz are slots that I either can't really read or have conflicting thoughts on, but I see as more likely town than not.

REALMEN + Ventriloquist are the null line.

verylazy + Wilky are slots I've had stronger scumreads on, but they've improved over time.

Everything below those two slots I can easily see being scum this game.

This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.

VOTE: Ankamius

[Ramcius]

Keep in mind that if we assume there have been no fakeclaims and that there are 5 scum in this game, then there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.

why assume no fakeclaims and 5 scums?

[Alchemist21]

Ventriloquist's post seem more like they care about keeping suspicion off themself instead of scumhunting and in a way that feels like scum that thinks it can reason itself out of being scumread.

[Ankamius]

Kaede Akamatsu

MariaR
Ouroboros

Wraith
Nero Cain
hebichan
Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)

Dunnstral
davesaz

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Ventriloquist

verylazy
Wilky

Alchemist21
Tchill12
Ramcius

ManWithNoName

UNVOTE: Ventriloquist
VOTE: ManWithNoName

MariaR + Ouroboros I have a hard time seeing as scum this game.

The {Wraith, Nero Cain, hebichan, Impossibear} set are close enough together in read strength that they might as well be right on top of each other.

Dunnstral + davesaz are slots that I either can't really read or have conflicting thoughts on, but I see as more likely town than not.

REALMEN + Ventriloquist are the null line.

verylazy + Wilky are slots I've had stronger scumreads on, but they've improved over time.

Everything below those two slots I can easily see being scum this game.

This is pretty underwhelming. You could have explained at least some of these reads. I wasn't expecting too much but for all I can tell this could be a list that was just RNG'd.

VOTE: Ankamius

Why do I need to explain them?

[Alchemist21]

I can't believe you actually asked that.

[Ankamius]

Either you don't remember me as well as you think you do or you're purposely ignoring the fundamental core of how I play the game.

[Ventriloquist]

At no point in this game have I said anything about your activity levels, though I do suppose you may be intentionally scum lurking. I mean you're lurking, that's not why you're scum.

Ouroboros' attempt to create pressure with very minimal reasoning is not really giving me much to work with, although I can't say I'm surprised that you want to pull apart a new player's behaviour. It unnerves me because you say you are keeping cards close to your chest whilst simultaneously defending a player that has given us no reason to believe they are town at all, Tchill.

You're correct I'm not giving you much to work with, but I assure you that's nothing to do with you. I have several strong reads for who your buddies are and want to see what they do before it becomes 100% clear that you're going to be the lynch today. As a result I am holding off on several of the stronger points that I want to make.

You're also playing the newb card and implying that I'm pushing you because you're new, which is blatantly untrue.

'defending a player who has given us no reason to believe they are town at all' is how scum describe their scumreads, not town.

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Interestingly, MWNN was willing to vote most of the people that I voted but he waffled then made an excuse for not voting you: what do you think that shows?

also don't see how different my activity is from players that also havent had time to add much substance yet, like Hebichan & REALMEN. I will add my reads to the discussion as and when I sense them, until that point any probing on my part will look forced.

It will 'look' forced or it will 'be' forced? You're again making this an activity issue when it clearly isn't.

@Ouroboros, you were suspicious of my thought process on Tchill (by suggesting he could be jester, i.e. misconstued to suggest we shouldn't vote for him ) yet you're not scumreading Tchill, a bit of an alignment disconnect don't you think?

Not in the slightest: 'this person is acting weird and scummy -> I think they are jester' is an extremely scummy thought process.
Typical newbplay is to assume anything weird or different is weird or different because it's scum, but you seem to already know that he's not weird or scummy because scum: why?
You are also trying to convince ME that I am scum and that is extremely scummy too: look at the phrasing of this.

If the thing that bothers you about me is other player activity, then why don't you address them? You say it's too soon to reveal your other suspects whilst also accusing MWNN in your next point.

I don't think it's unjustified to say you're pushing me because you're not familiar with me, by being alarmist your trying to see how I react to pressure.

You've stated that you're definitely going to be N1 kill, like you're trying to double bluff and insure yourself should you remain alive on day 2. This doesn't strike me as transparent behaviour - all these 'cards against your chest' remarks are not indictive of a good townie, regardless of your alignment and it's much easier for people to get on board with you as trustworthy when you aren't claiming to hide so much in the next breath.

You've pulled me up on my lack of definites, I can understand this at least. To this I can only say I don't like to accuse outright unless I have a strong lead, just because I have less conviction in my analysis it doesn't invalidate it. I'm also not trying to convince anyone that your scum, just that you've honed in on me and can't see anything but what you want to at this stage.

I will try and post some more tomorrow but I have a job interview to prepare for so don't count on it. Thursday evening I should be around more and will try to contribute to discussion actively rather than spending the whole time defending myself.

[Alchemist21]

@Ank

I remember you having it in your sig where someone said you're the only person they knew who could do nothing all game then solve it out of nowhere, but I didn't think it was so literal.

At the very least I want an explanation for why you're voting who you're voting.

[Ramcius]

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Huh? What vote changing you talk about? Open my ISO and tell me what vote changing i've done? I voted Maria in RvS, i voted Wilky, then selfvoted as a joke, that's about it. I just feel like you try get easy lynch and don't like my wagon dissolving

[Dunnstral]

My only other scum reads so far were on Ramacius & MWNN, as both were very fickle and kept changing their votes without offering any good reason for doing so. This to me suggests an uneasyness when under pressure in the former case and a desire to please the supposedly protown mascot, Ouroboros in the latter.

Huh? What vote changing you talk about? Open my ISO and tell me what vote changing i've done? I voted Maria in RvS, i voted Wilky, then selfvoted as a joke, that's about it. I just feel like you try get easy lynch and don't like my wagon dissolving

Maybe you should place a serious vote then

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh I just now remembered.
@Hebichan: Now that you know I'm town, can you explain what you meant by my posts being excusey?
@Ramcius: Where are your reads at right now? Why arent you voting?

[Ramcius]

I don't like Ventrilo's attempt push me, i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim", we still have Tchill/Wilky situation, Realmen asking to be burned with the fire, hebi's sheeping is unsettling, Nero is awkwardly silent

Hm, i guess i try

VOTE: Nero

others at least are talking

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Looks like you dislike a lot of people...
No TRs?

[Kaede Akamatsu]

i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim"

After looking through Wraith's ISO and your question about this which is still unanswered, i dont understand what about it makes you dislike it.
First you brought up:

maybe 13 v 4 v 1, if GiF decided put some neutral for good measure

The later 13 v 4 v 1 if we assume the 1 cant win with town (serial killer for example) that also classifies as scum, not groupscum, while I believe this might be just wording issue, you're the one who brought this up at first, so I dont understand your issue with it.

[MariaR]

Kaede look that leaf is floating by itself..

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Now I dont understand what that's supposed to mean xD

[Ramcius]

i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim"

After looking through Wraith's ISO and your question about this which is still unanswered, i dont understand what about it makes you dislike it.
First you brought up:

maybe 13 v 4 v 1, if GiF decided put some neutral for good measure

The later 13 v 4 v 1 if we assume the 1 cant win with town (serial killer for example) that also classifies as scum, not groupscum, while I believe this might be just wording issue, you're the one who brought this up at first, so I dont understand your issue with it.

if i considered sk, i said 14 v 3 v 1, but i doubt sk - 2 millers and hider in closed game with 2 KPN (as you see, i don't consider either of them gambiting scum in this case - i doubt scum would risk such gambit, if there was only 3 of them)

As to why i doubt 5 maf, there's general rule for numbers in game - town = 3xscum + 1, closest number is 13 v 4, adding 5th scum in closed game requires them to be very weak and town godlike.

As to games with similar numbers - Beneath the Mask was 16 v 5, Divergent was 15 v 4 v 1 and we barely won, Kingdom Hearts was 13 v 4

So when someone gives unrealistic number, i wonder if they have no idea about setups or are scum trying fake townslip

[Ramcius]

As for TRs, i never give those, unless someone do or say something that makes them locktown in my eyes, otherwise all my TRs are subject to change

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Why hide that information? I think anyone's TRs are always subject to change unless they are mod confirmed, yet you dont see them hiding them.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

[Dunnstral]

5 players - 1 scum
9 players - 2 scum
13 players - 3 scum
17 players - 4 scum
21 players - 5 scum

General idea of what to expect

[Dunnstral]

Though that's not perfect and things start to fall apart balance wise in role madness games like this

[MariaR]

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

I'm slowly turning ok with a ram wagon considering he was a

lot

more cocky and less team playerish/excuses like he's trying now I was biting my tongue cause I was just waiting for him to do something but hey.
I'm coming around to Ram and that vote on Nero was bad so I might take back my nero sr

[Ramcius]

Why hide that information? I think anyone's TRs are always subject to change unless they are mod confirmed, yet you dont see them hiding them.

Then what point of posting townreads, if you going change them later on? If anyone want my TRs, they can just assume people i'm not scumreading are my townreads atm