Sid Meier's Civilization 5 UPick Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Jodaxq]

hello everyone

[Jodaxq]

I will do a full catch up tomorrow morning. I'm sorry, all. Weekends are always bad for me but this one was in particular.

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: brassherald

I'm having internet issues. I have skimmed through everything and will read things carefully on my phone throughout the day and night. I'm sorry about my activity.

[Jodaxq]

NOT VOTING

:

• Assemblerotws, Jodaxq, Gamma Emerald, Joey_, Chara

Why aren't you guys voting? Keep your vote in play.

I wasn't voting because I wasn't caught up to the game. I do think the nonvotes outside of me and Assembler are interesting.

[Jodaxq]

NOT VOTING

:

• Assemblerotws, Jodaxq, Gamma Emerald, Joey_, Chara

Why aren't you guys voting? Keep your vote in play.

I wasn't voting because I wasn't caught up to the game. I do think the nonvotes outside of me and Assembler are interesting.

Interesting in which capacity

Interesting as in I'm interested into knowing why they were not voting

[Jodaxq]

Chara and myself were voting and fosing the IC, we both unvoted then I fosed Varsoon who made a mistake he aknowledge, so i gave botd and unvoted. Whats your problem with non-voting people, would you prefer i place a vote im not confident in?

pedit: then read the game and dont half-shade people not voting

I was in the middle of a catchup when I quoted and answered a post that was addressed to me. Ranmaru asked a question that had not been answered so I reiterated it.
Right before this post Marshy makes a call to all of those on wagons with single votes. He says it's basically the same as nonvoting. Why are you calling me out in specific for wanting to address non voters?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Klazam

[Jodaxq]

hey Kiana! <3

Joda: are you caught up yet? because it looks like you've just glanced at whoever isn't voting to ask a question that can be answered by reading the game.
also 925 is bad.

I am caught up now, yes.
Ranmaru's post was the only post (unless I missed one which is entirely possible) that asked me a question directly. That is why I responded to it. I am still having internet issues and I'm having to do this completely on my phone, so I am not going to do a hyper post catch up.

[Jodaxq]

Can we discuss why Joda is not town?

I am willing to discuss why I am town.

[Jodaxq]

Jodaxq is in this game?

I literally forgot she was.

Nero, from the normal that is still being discussed, do you remember if Jodaxq lurked around during the shitshow that was day 1?

As I said I've been without internet. Like literally no access to a computer with internet. I didn't even log into the site yesterday. I have an appointment with a technician tomorrow and will hopefully be back up and running then.

[Jodaxq]

i believe you about the internet, Joda, but are you keeping up with recent posts?

I've been skimming through this morning before work so I'm sure I've missed stuff. I saw a lot of debate about which resolutions Brass and Titus should pick and I know which options were available. I know the two resolutions we're voting on

[Jodaxq]

Kiana and Joda are going to have a rough time keeping up with this one.

We're getting past 100 pages Day 1, boyos!

Once I have internet I will absolutely have zero problems keeping up

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: Ban Silk

I'm back up and running. I have to go to work now but I will catch up overnight.

[Jodaxq]

I can confirm A50 did spread Taoism to me, was waiting until someone mentioned that if at all.

Also, I KNEW A50 was China! WOOT! Personal victory!

Did anything else happen to you last night?

[Jodaxq]

I can confirm A50 did spread Taoism to me, was waiting until someone mentioned that if at all.

Also, I KNEW A50 was China! WOOT! Personal victory!

Did anything else happen to you last night?

Not anything of which I am aware.

Can you think of a reason that someone other than a religion spreader would want to target you?

[Jodaxq]

I can confirm A50 did spread Taoism to me, was waiting until someone mentioned that if at all.

Also, I KNEW A50 was China! WOOT! Personal victory!

Did anything else happen to you last night?

Not anything of which I am aware.

Can you think of a reason that someone other than a religion spreader would want to target you?

If there is a hider, I'd be a pretty good target last night.

If you were targeted by a hider, you wouldn't have been converted to Taoism, right?

[Jodaxq]

I can confirm A50 did spread Taoism to me, was waiting until someone mentioned that if at all.

Also, I KNEW A50 was China! WOOT! Personal victory!

Did anything else happen to you last night?

Not anything of which I am aware.

Can you think of a reason that someone other than a religion spreader would want to target you?

If there is a hider, I'd be a pretty good target last night.

If you were targeted by a hider, you wouldn't have been converted to Taoism, right?

They are independent of one another. A hider would be looking for protection from Night Kills, not hiding me.

My bad I read hider wrong.

[Jodaxq]

a hider targeting you is actually pretty unlikely, unless they really needed to hide. most hiders aren't looking to avoid nightkills, they're trying to conftown players because hiders are weak, or else guilty scum. it's essentialluy Elbirn's role.

I agree. So who would want to target brass other than a religion spreader?

[Jodaxq]

No one seems to care about my softing so I'll put it like this:

Someone, who is not A50, targeted Brass last night. Is this anti-town? My first thought would be that, like Shaziro speculated, there's a mafia group that can obtain a religious victory. This person tried to convert brass, but was either blocked because of A50's move or less likely, brass was converted to the bad religion and is keeping his mouth shut about it. What do you all think?

[Jodaxq]

No one seems to care about my softing so I'll put it like this:

Someone, who is not A50, targeted Brass last night. Is this anti-town? My first thought would be that, like Shaziro speculated, there's a mafia group that can obtain a religious victory. This person tried to convert brass, but was either blocked because of A50's move or less likely, brass was converted to the bad religion and is keeping his mouth shut about it. What do you all think?

I didn't want to out what you were hinting at there, but I really have no clue what the other person would be, I am Taoist now.

This exactly. I had no idea what it could have been until the religion mechanic came to light, so I believe it is tied to that. Assuming A50 and pidgey are town religion spreaders, I think a third is very likely to be anti-town. They cannot be a hider as I tracked them.

[Jodaxq]

Someone, who is not A50, targeted Brass last night. Is this anti-town?

Why didn't you say so? All the while I thought you were only talking about me.

OK, some protective could have tried to protect the IC, although that would probably imply they were not reading and didn't understand the resolutions. I wouldn't expect Scum to pay brass a visit last night because he was protected and thus NK immune. He had a confirmed role for anyone to try and find that out too.

I suggest you use your own best judgement as to whether the slot in question was active enough (and has shown comprehension) or not. If they were and did, you may ask them for an explanation. If not, then I'd just assume inattentive protective.

@Gamma Emerald: why did you visit Brassherald last night?

[Jodaxq]

No one seems to care about my softing so I'll put it like this:

Someone, who is not A50, targeted Brass last night. Is this anti-town? My first thought would be that, like Shaziro speculated, there's a mafia group that can obtain a religious victory. This person tried to convert brass, but was either blocked because of A50's move or less likely, brass was converted to the bad religion and is keeping his mouth shut about it. What do you all think?

I think this is a weird ass theory and idk where you're getting it from

It's weird to you? Even though you had this same theory yourself in 2098? Shaziro also speculated that mafia could have a religious victory condition and we had a mafia religion spreader.

[Jodaxq]

Gamma, Joda tracked you. she didn't see Almost target brass. she only saw you target brass.

i was considering if Joda scum would do this, but not sure if scum would handle the report like that, with all of the guessing around. thinking about it further i also would have expected to see a watcher on brass, for the reason Gamma stated. (a strongman kill attempt, not the resolution.) i wish she hadn't outed you over Shaziro's theory.

Shaziro's reaction to Gamma's claim deliberately constructed what he was saying as a lie instead of looking for an explanation.

not sure i want to wagon Shaziro at the moment, though. doesn't feel very right. :<

That's not why I outed him. I asked around several times to see if someone else visiting Brass was anti-town or not. Either I was ignored or people outright said they didn't know and I should ask.
And it's not just Shaziro's theory. Gamma himself speculated in 2098 that A50 could have a religious based win condition. When I received my results I had no clue why anyone would target Brass, and the religion thing made me reach the possible cult conclusion on my own. Shaziro's post and others only helped add to that thinking.

[Jodaxq]

i disagree with coordination. it tells scum how to navigate town abilities effectively.

and a day 1/night 1 of multiple scum flips can be dangerous. of course, we're doing well, that's a good thing. but if we start thinking "it will be easy now", that's when you get the string of town lynches.

I disagree with your disagreement. Theres always ways to half-coordinate for room to wifom yet helps more town

Resolutions

Spoiler:

DAY 1

[

Ban Luxury

~ Silk]

PASSES

The World Congress will monitor its effects going forward, but angry letters from textile manufacturers and sex workers alike have already started pouring in.

Effect(s) Unknown.

[

Congressional Peace-keeping

~ brassherald]

PASSES

The World Congress sends its peace-keeping forces to

brassherald

's Civilization, a move that is sure to curtail aggression in the region.

brassherald receives Protection Night 1.

Gamestate 2.1

Alive

17/21

Spoiler:

Brassherald
Innocent Child
▓▓▓▓
Joey	Kokichi Oma	Chara	Nero Cain
?	?	?	?
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Kiana Kaslana	Bujaber	Gamma Emerald	Klazam
?	?	Watcher	?
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Shaziro	Action Dan	Pidgey	Jodaxq
?	?	Catholic Spreader ?	Tracker
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ? ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Almost50	Marshy	Ranmaru	Titus
Taoism Spreader	?	?	?
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓

Dead

4/21

Spoiler:

Elbirn
Weak Permanent BG
▓▓▓▓
Varsoon
Role Cop
▓▓▓▓
Creature	Dunkerdoodles
Role Blocker	Pagan Spreader
▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓

Spoiler: My reads

Brassherald
Innocent Child
▓▓▓▓
Joey	Kokichi Oma	Nero Cain	Chara
?	?	?	?
▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Kiana Kaslana	Bujaber	Gamma Emerald	Klazam
?	?	Watcher	?
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Shaziro	Action Dan	Pidgey	Jodaxq
?	?	Catholic Spreader	Tracker
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓
Almost50	Marshy	Ranmaru	Titus
Taoism Spreader	?	?	?
▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓	▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓ ▓▓▓▓

Changes :
Assuming Gamma and Joda can't be scum in the same team, added that to my reads
+ Baju kinda towntold

Okay, before we go any further with this, I'm going to full claim. I'm not tracker. I'm Darius I of Persia. I'm the Town Golden Ruler. Each night I receive a random invention that must be used that night. Obviously, last night I received a track and used it on Gamma.

[Jodaxq]

I was thinking you might be an Even night tracker, not an inventor.

Do you have a list of possible inventions you can choose from?

Sorry, not choose from, that can be granted to you.

No.

[Jodaxq]

Wait wasn't there a ban gold resolution? What would that have done to you Joda, do you know?

No idea.

[Jodaxq]

Wait wasn't there a ban gold resolution? What would that have done to you Joda, do you know?

No idea.

Why did you track gamma ?

I wanted to pick an active player who had formed a lot of associations. Of the active players, I felt like Gamma was the most suspicious in regards to the Creature wagon.

[Jodaxq]

Why was he sus about creature's wagon?

He first says he'll vote Creature if Dunker became more active. Then, he votes Creature for all of one post. After his unvote, he continues to say Creature is obvscum until Creature came in with a few weak posts. Then it's "I'm not confident in Creature being scum." He then jumps on kind of late.

It just looked like a strong possibility that he knew he had to bus Creature but looked for opportunities to jump off.

[Jodaxq]

I don't really think the runner up WC host should be a huge deal. I'd rather give it to town, of course, but I cannot think of a way where scum could manipulate things with Brass as host.

HEAL: Joey_ x2

[Jodaxq]

The Gamma v Nero fight is a pretty big turn off, but I think they're both town. I buy the arguments for a town Gamma and definitely want to give him another night to provide results. I think Nero's push is bad, but I trust Joey's read on him as I've seen Joey correctly and instantly identify town Nero elsewhere.

[Jodaxq]

A50 is making a ton of sense to me. His logic combined with his claim and verification by Brass makes him a strong town read for me.

[Jodaxq]

I don't like any of Marshy's votes today. I could get behind a Marshy lynch

[Jodaxq]

Ranmaru was super active yesterday, but today he's only poked around the Gamma lynch in the midst of my claim and made the easy vote of Brass for WC host. His posts toward the end of yesterday were mostly contentless as well. Does anyone town read Ran? Why?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: Ranmaru

[Jodaxq]

Ran was never super active to begin with.

Is that you trying to say you think he's town?

[Jodaxq]

I buy the arguments for a town Gamma and definitely want to give him another night to provide results. I think Nero's push is bad

What arguments are those?

All I remember seeing is an argument that we shouldn't lynch a claimed JOAT today. I feel like the JOAT claim is a little sketch. Like dude got tracked so he had to claim something that was plausible and the "WAIT I'M NOT A WATCHER!" Kinda gives him a little wiggle room. I also feel like he totally should have waited to use his watch when Brass wasn't protected. I still feel like his content is confusing and potentially scum motivated.

Me being wrong isn't a foregone conclusion but the wagon on him feels mostly town so what: Am I just wrong and scum are sheeping me? Gamma hasn't really talked about this either and it's shortsighted at best.

There's also a potential guilty.

What made you track Gamma?

2250 is my explanation for why I tracked Gamma.

The argument for a town Gamma is that there isn't a scum role that fits with wanting to visit Brass. My original thought was that he was the orange religion spreader (or potentially third party/third team spreader) but the other religion spreader PM suggests that brass would have been notified of both religions visiting him. I also think that if he is scum, he now has to continue to fake results which would be pretty tough to continue to get verified results.

I also buy A50's argument that Elbirn was shot by scum. This is something that will become more apparent as the game continues and we can know for sure if there's a vig/SK/third team.

[Jodaxq]

but the other religion spreader PM suggests that brass would have been notified of both religions visiting him. I also think that if he is scum, he now has to continue to fake results which would be pretty tough to continue to get verified results.

Where did you got this part from? I dont really see anything about that in my role

It says "no discernable or tangible night effects" so I don't think it would be blocked by another religion visiting.

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: ban Ivory
HEAL: ban gold

I will catch up tomorrow night

[Jodaxq]

Not a lot has changed for me. I'm not really a fan of setup spec (mainly because I'm bad at it), but I agree that it makes sense that one of the three claimed religion spreaders is anti-town.

[Jodaxq]

Is the case for ActionDan just that he's lurking? I am really not feeling that lynch.

[Jodaxq]

I still think Gamma's town and there's basically no way I lynch him today.

[Jodaxq]

Kiana's reaction seems pretty genuine to me. I don't think I want to lynch her either.

[Jodaxq]

I really do not like Titus' posts. She is in my lynch pool for today along with Ranmaru.

[Jodaxq]

I really do not like Titus' posts. She is in my lynch pool for today along with Ranmaru.

Can you tell me why wrt Titus

All of her posts are only surface level contributions. She talks a lot about setup/mechanics and things that are known. Her posts relating to her reads are all of a "wait and see what develops."

[Jodaxq]

I'm not sure how I feel about the Gamma wagon coming alive like this. I do like the wagon's composition, however.

[Jodaxq]

I believe Kiana. I don't want to lynch her today. Really don't like the Kokichi votes either.

[Jodaxq]

Then vote gamma.

I'll wait for his full claim

[Jodaxq]

What's wrong with the Ranmaru lynch?

[Jodaxq]

I do not want to lynch Gamma today

[Jodaxq]

I could go ActionDan if someone provides a reason other than his activity level

[Jodaxq]

Last night I received a bodyguard shot which I used on Brass

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: Brassherald x3

[Jodaxq]

I'm down for the mass claim at this point. Agree with others that we already have so much information out there that it's worth it.

[Jodaxq]

Caeser Wills It needs to put on a show today for me to not want that slot lynched. I am also still not all convinced on a town Titus.

[Jodaxq]

I'd still pick marshy for scum out of the three claimed religion spreaders. I'm pretty sure A50's town.

[Jodaxq]

Joda, what was your read on Gamma on night 2?

I was wary of the commuter shot claim especially since I thought Kokichi soft counter-claimed. If I had to pick one way right now though I'd still say he's town.

[Jodaxq]

it is multiball, I think that counters
plus joda's role is probs random

I don't like this post. The "I think that counters" just feels kind of forced.

[Jodaxq]

eh im against massclaim- sure lots of info's out there, but the game's still young, and theres still (probably) 3 scum to go. Dont see reason to potentially out more roles, esp since the revealed roles looks like they either do nothing (religion), or are challenging to play around like joda's inventor, joey's commuter, and gamma's joat.

Disagree that the game's young. We've had 1/3 of the game die. I think we should massclaim soon. Tomorrow at the absolute latest.

[Jodaxq]

Where is Caesar Eats Salad?

VOTE: Caeser Wills It

[Jodaxq]

I get the BuJaber associative thing, but I think he's town by play. I'd much rather go Caesar or Titus

[Jodaxq]

Explain me again why gamma is town because of the night kills?

What do you mean? Shaz claimed he vigged Dunker so Elbirn was likely shot by scum. Unless you're talking about last night's kills?

[Jodaxq]

It doesn't clear Gamma at all. It just means he's not soft guiltied by it

[Jodaxq]

I'll do the VCA on Monday if I am still here and this is ongoing.

@Gamma, Elbrin was weak. He visited you is my understanding. You softed protective which has insanely high likelihood of being a lie.

Well we know who's not reading the game. Like come on, this was discussed on this very page

[Jodaxq]

I'll do the VCA on Monday if I am still here and this is ongoing.

@Gamma, Elbrin was weak. He visited you is my understanding. You softed protective which has insanely high likelihood of being a lie.

Well we know who's not reading the game. Like come on, this was discussed on this very page

Yes nightkill blah blah blah. Not buying that a vig claim even if true vitates Occam's Razor. It's just helpful to scum.

So you're saying that the one that assumes Elbirn visited Gamma, assumes no scum shot Elbirn, and assumes Shaziro's claim is scum is the one that Occam's Razor would suggest?

[Jodaxq]

I will vote Titus after the WC is resolved.

[Jodaxq]

anyway the point is she's blaming Gamma for being unable to protect when she coulen't anyway
also, why foes every protective keep defaulting to brass. pick someone you can actually stop a kill on!

My protective doesn't stop a kill.

My bodyguard shot was very difficult to use. I didn't know I wasn't going to receive it (or even that a BG shot was possible for me to receive) so I could not soft it or claim it in any way. Say I use it on Joey_ (my other consideration) and he gets shot. Everyone comes in and just assumes I was shot instead and perhaps uses my content for NKA.

[Jodaxq]

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

Why is a JOAT with a protective shot suspect to a non-consecutive Doctor??

It's my job to protect brassherald and you're arguing mere coincidence that

a) gamma overlaps our roles
b) too many protectives
c) gamma saved by last second counter
d) The players pushing me were largely silent or townreading me until today.

What is the point of D. Yeah I haven't posted a ton. Does that make my read less valid? Does that make my claim illegitimate? Does it make me less town? This is absolutely worthless shading and looks extremely scummy.
And no. Your role and Gamma's role do not overlap. I come from a site with almost 100% role madness games and JOAT + full roles is completely standard.

[Jodaxq]

Yo Joda what's your HS

I'm embarrassed to reveal my ignorance. What's HS?

[Jodaxq]

My protective doesn't stop a kill.

My bodyguard shot was very difficult to use. I didn't know I wasn't going to receive it (or even that a BG shot was possible for me to receive) so I could not soft it or claim it in any way. Say I use it on Joey_ (my other consideration) and he gets shot. Everyone comes in and just assumes I was shot instead and perhaps uses my content for NKA.

ok, true, you're excused. so you don't flip with your inventions?
you being shot over Joey would still be better (in the hypothetical where he wasn't commuter) but i understand the reason for making the decision.

i also understand to defaulting to protecting the IC, even if it's the most transparent move a protective could make. i had this thought in my head where fakeclaiming protectives just say they went for the IC, but i think it's more about being able to actually trick scum into messing up a kill instead of just protecting the most obvious choice.
but my philosophy isn't the same as the rest.

I don't think I would flip with my inventions. There isn't a list of possible inventions in my role PM and I doubt my moves would be revealed.
I understand what you're saying about protecting the IC

[Jodaxq]

I am a non consecutive night doctor.
I have voted Gamma since his soft claiming it was fake.
Elbrin died visiting Gamma.

Period.

Why is a JOAT with a protective shot suspect to a non-consecutive Doctor??

It's my job to protect brassherald and you're arguing mere coincidence that

a) gamma overlaps our roles
b) too many protectives
c) gamma saved by last second counter
d) The players pushing me were largely silent or townreading me until today.

What is the point of D. Yeah I haven't posted a ton. Does that make my read less valid? Does that make my claim illegitimate? Does it make me less town? This is absolutely worthless shading and looks extremely scummy.
And no. Your role and Gamma's role do not overlap. I come from a site with almost 100% role madness games and JOAT + full roles is completely standard.

You weren't part of the category in D. D is Gamma Almost and Chara. The people who couldn't be bothered to do anything until Gamma was about to die. (Queue Gamma AtE)

I don't know where you come from but where I come from Gamma's role conflicts with mine 90+ percent of the time and I have played a lot more than you.

I could believe your second statement if others did. I'm not the not one who think they don't conflict

[Jodaxq]

Not the only one*

[Jodaxq]

home site, where you first played mafia

It's not a mafia specific forum. It's a fantasy football forum and I was introduced to it by some of my league mates.

[Jodaxq]

I'll just take a chill pill tonight and try to talk sense into this tomorrow.

@Chara, Nero, Elbrin for starters. Just look at all the dead townies.

Man I get Kokichi can rub people the wrong way but... no respect.

[Jodaxq]

I don't think City-States is third party with the embargo being permanent. Third party is hard enough without a resolution that would permanently roleblock(?) you.

[Jodaxq]

Titus is just being so strange. I don't know if I've played with someone who was consistently this out of tune with the game.

[Jodaxq]

I find Klazam's weird claim to be kinda townie. I think that scum would feel backed into a corner and try to make a more confident fake claim.

[Jodaxq]

Also, I'm making this post to remind people that Caesar Wills It is still in this game and has still delivered nothing.

[Jodaxq]

Titus says she protected Brass N2 which obviously means she did nothing N1. She is suspect of there being other protectives in the game. But yet, she thinks it's more likely that the orange scum kill got blocked than them shooting Elbirn?

[Jodaxq]

Titus says she protected Brass N2 which obviously means she did nothing N1. She is suspect of there being other protectives in the game. But yet, she thinks it's more likely that the orange scum kill got blocked than them shooting Elbirn?

Crosskill/scum blocker/scum protective

Let me rephrase

If I was wrong, wouldn't you expect scum to sheep me as I'd be a good place to hide?

Um. No.

The Red team shot Varsoon. You can agree to that, right? That means, in your world, it is the orange scum kill that is unaccounted for. The Red roleblocker was lynched. Two red players are dead. The mod confirmed to us that players can only perform one action in a night so the remaining red player cannot both have protected and shot Varsoon. Or do you think that each scum team has four members?

I guess you do keep referring to Gamma and his multiple partners so maybe you do.

[Jodaxq]

Titus says she protected Brass N2 which obviously means she did nothing N1. She is suspect of there being other protectives in the game. But yet, she thinks it's more likely that the orange scum kill got blocked than them shooting Elbirn?

Crosskill/scum blocker/scum protective

Let me rephrase

If I was wrong, wouldn't you expect scum to sheep me as I'd be a good place to hide?

Um. No.

The Red team shot Varsoon. You can agree to that, right? That means, in your world, it is the orange scum kill that is unaccounted for. The Red roleblocker was lynched. Two red players are dead. The mod confirmed to us that players can only perform one action in a night so the remaining red player cannot both have protected and shot Varsoon. Or do you think that each scum team has four members?

I guess you do keep referring to Gamma and his multiple partners so maybe you do.

Dunker was still alive coming into n1. It's possible Dunker shot and his partner protected.

And his partner wouldn't have protected Dunker? What's a scum protective for?

[Jodaxq]

my commuting could also explain the lack of a kill

Good point.

[Jodaxq]

That replace out seems so petty. It reminds me a lot of Gamma's replace out in Dunker's recent large normal.

[Jodaxq]

I am not an asshole.

It's multiball. Titus flipping scum doesn't clear you 100%. And of course if titus flips town vig shot is best on you.
But more to the point even after all effort spent defending you some people still suspect you. It is not in town's favor to repeatedly come back to you.

Klazam shooting you shuts up people about you. Forces scum to find some other person to lynch in what is shaping up to be a strong townvloc and clears klazam unless there are too few kills. Even if it doesn't fully clear klaxam your death is way better than IC or whatever. I am proposing we all agree to this because in the off chance that klazam is scum we force him to shoot who we want or it's a scumclaim

Disagree. Gamma is very likely town regardless of Titus' alignment. She can be town and still be completely wrong.

Gamma being scum comes down to whether you believe one or more things. He visited Brass N1 when Brass was peacekept. Elbirn softed a visit to Gamma and flipped a weak role. There are too many protective roles and Gamma's claim is most suspect. If you believe one or more of those things points to Gamma being anti-town then he's anti-town regardless of Titus.

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: Embargo City-States x2
HEAL: International Games Pidgey

[Jodaxq]

I am not an asshole.

It's multiball. Titus flipping scum doesn't clear you 100%. And of course if titus flips town vig shot is best on you.
But more to the point even after all effort spent defending you some people still suspect you. It is not in town's favor to repeatedly come back to you.

Klazam shooting you shuts up people about you. Forces scum to find some other person to lynch in what is shaping up to be a strong townvloc and clears klazam unless there are too few kills. Even if it doesn't fully clear klaxam your death is way better than IC or whatever. I am proposing we all agree to this because in the off chance that klazam is scum we force him to shoot who we want or it's a scumclaim

Disagree. Gamma is very likely town regardless of Titus' alignment. She can be town and still be completely wrong.

Gamma being scum comes down to whether you believe one or more things. He visited Brass N1 when Brass was peacekept. Elbirn softed a visit to Gamma and flipped a weak role. There are too many protective roles and Gamma's claim is most suspect. If you believe one or more of those things points to Gamma being anti-town then he's anti-town regardless of Titus.

I don't believe gamma is scum. I have been proposing middle of the road suggestions compromises that people who do think he is scum should agree to.

No.

There are only three people voting Gamma: Titus, Kiana, and Marshy. Titus is getting lynched so who cares what she thinks of Gamma. Kiana naked voted Gamma and hasn't really updated her thoughts on him. Marshy is the only one who's reasons are decent (he meta reads Gamma as scum) but I really don't trust him or his read all that much, and I don't think I'm alone. Ranmaru also meta scum read Gamma yesterday but his slot has done literally nothing at all today. There's no one else to "shut up" about Gamma and vigging a guy you don't believe is scum to convince one guy is really bad.

Shaz should vig who he thinks is scum (if he even has a shot tonight... don't think he's ever said).

[Jodaxq]

I started to catch up but I'm too tired to comprehend. I'll pick this back up tomorrow night.

[Jodaxq]

does town have NO investigative roles? or does the red scum team have no investigative scum? id like to kno what joey thinks of this.

I thought about that a lot actually! Varsoon's flipping role cop is probably most-if-not all orange investigative role while no red flipped investigative! I also think that in some ways, the absurd amount of protectives could be the offset for the lack of investigative ? Like obviously town gets a lot of advantage if they can keep passing resolutions on town and protected players, maybe the resolutions themselves grants investigative abilities ? idk man, theres still like 3 unclaimed slot

I dont understand that part : "if someone could please link me/explain WHY jodax claim thatd b greatly appreciated and ill answer any question they hav for me in return", do you want to know why joda claimed at all or why would she as scum?

i want to see the post/reasoning behind her claim and then try to weigh if the way she did so tells us anything about her alignment

im gonna b here in a bit and am gonna try to figure some stuff out. gimme like an hr and a half and whatever i dont finish im gonna ask you guys about and then i can get back at you tomorrow cuz im off

I tracked Gamma N1 because I didn't like how he interacted with the Creature wagon. I learned that he visited brassherald. Because Brass was peacekept, I couldn't think of any great reason for him to be targeted, and I straight up asked people if a visit to brass was anti-town. I was then told it would be best to ask the person directly assuming it was an active person who knew Brass was peacekept. I did so. Afterwards, people were talking about trying to coordinate the claims we had on the table, so I full claimed because my ability each night is random and I didn't want to have someone try to leash a track to someone.
2175 is the beginning of my claim.

[Jodaxq]

Sorry I've been AWOL, reading and catching up but it kinda feels like folks have been locked into their reads and unwilling to listen to changing information unless it can be used to reaffirm their thoughts. Gamma is town, this seems very clear to me, but marshy only recently opened his mind to changing that. The progression on that mind-opening feels weird to me, but that is what it is. Also, Caesar is at L-1, please don't throw another vote that way until we get a claim from the slot.

I know you aren't talking to me in specific, but what changing information has there been for Caesar scum?

[Jodaxq]

im starting to think one of the more reliable scumtells in this game is seeing who attacked gamma for a prolonged period time LOL. not even joking both varsoon/dunk did it and i bet another or 2 or 3 did too

I think this is pretty accurate.

[Jodaxq]

I'm not convinced that the red team has to have an investigative role. The orange team would have to have something else as well and we've had no real indication of another roleblocker or scum protective (I feel like Dunker and Varsoon would have received protection from their respective scum teams).

[Jodaxq]

Hi. I have obtained some metagame evidence that points towards Gamma being town here.

VOTE: Klazam

I would appreciate if you expanded upon this for us.

[Jodaxq]

I'm getting solid scumvibes from OnTheMark. That's gonna sound self-serving, but their posts ping my radar.

FWIW

You're not the only one.

[Jodaxq]

Shameless prod dodge. I'm really sorry, all. I will definitely catch up fully before deadline.

[Jodaxq]

I'm still here too. Will be catching up throughout the day

I received a watch last night and used it on brass. No one visited

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: brassherald x3

I see no reason this shouldn't be the case

[Jodaxq]

I don't think the runner up matters that much. With a confirmed town having access to the same list, I think it would be very difficult for scum to manipulate things. Especially since I don't think scum are given any more information on what the resolutions do

[Jodaxq]

1.

EVERYONE AGREE ON MASSCLAIM, in this order RAN -> KLAZOUM -> CHARA

-> i will update my chart with the full roles once its done

2.

I want everyone to chime in, reread the game at least surfing the threat and make somewhat of a comprehensive list, hardly anyone did that so its hard to question others read. Also almost everyone has 1-2 foses while theres at least 3 mafia

I agree

[Jodaxq]

Shaziro's claim is almost certainly town. I would be pretty surprised if he ended up actually being SK

[Jodaxq]

Also scum can get info just by having access the said list, they dont need to pass a resolution they want to have some kind of gain

What am I missing here? If Brass is able to present us the whole list, why does this matter? And from what I've seen, the descriptions of abilities is pretty cryptic, and even one that was an obvious positive such as the games didn't have a huge advantage.

This is probably worthless anyway. Brass should be host and Joey will likely be runner up and it'll be fine.

[Jodaxq]

Joda dont you find it weird that you basically received the same almost same abilities as gamma ?

Kind of. But I also would find it weird if town's only investigative was a random inventor. This alone does not make me want to vote Gamma

[Jodaxq]

I'm stuck on this religion spreader thing. I think it makes too much sense for orange to have a religion spreader to match the red team's and so I want to say one of pidgey or marshy should be scum. However, I feel like both have been pretty towny by play.

[Jodaxq]

I really don't get why both scum teams would want to shoot A50 and not the IC or the claimed doctor. That makes me want to think OTM scum.

[Jodaxq]

Im stupid, i never thought about it but both marshy and pidgey are actually mechanically clear of being last red because they cant rel spread+factionnal kill, that being said, i think we can confirm if one of them is orange simply by asking them to convert someone alive everyday clearing themselves of being last of their faction.

It's possible that the last red didn't kill last night and used religion spread instead. It's unlikely but it's possible.

[Jodaxq]

I'm definitely willing to lynch OnTheMark. Ranmaru's posts after his replace back in have felt townie but he's still in my POE pool. I could vote Klazam also

[Jodaxq]

Bujaber hasn't been super townie except for his counterclaim of Kiana. I would be very impressed if he did that as scum.

[Jodaxq]

It's also possible that orange has a protective and red shot them.

Orange could have shot A50 if they have an unclaimed religion spreader to make us more likely to lynch Marshy or Pidgey. The religion spreaders were told up front that it had no tangible night effects, so the scum teams would likely send the religion spreader to kill.

[Jodaxq]

Chara is kind of bringing me around on town OTM and that annoys me.

[Jodaxq]

wait, i just got Joda's post. you think scum has another hidden religion spreader and that pidgey and marshy are both town?

I'm not saying I think that. I'm just saying it's a possibility. If the scum teams have two power roles plus a religion spreader, I would bet the religion spreader would be sent to do the night kill every night and therefore wouldn't ever use their ability. In that case, they would never want to claim religion spreader because they wouldn't want to have to prove their move.

[Jodaxq]

It sucks to see this game stall out. And yes I know I'm a huge part of that

[Jodaxq]

As I said I'm coming around to OTM being town. A Klazam lynch doesn't excite me either. It feels similar to the Kiana lynch to me and I still find his stubbornness in claiming kinda townie.

[Jodaxq]

I'm becoming pretty paranoid about the Joey slot. I can't point to anything specific and it's not the replace out, but he was just so town and the commuter claim is a pretty convenient one to explain why he was never killed. With the most widely scum read slots coming forward and looking pretty townie, I just feel like this is a lot more possible.

[Jodaxq]

I don't think it's that obvious today..
There's something like 6 candidates for lynch mark, shaz, joda, klaza, ran and me.

Those are not people everyone scumreads. Those are players people have expressed varying degree of interest in lynching today. I don't think any other name have come up except for just now joda seems to be suspecting joey.

Not Gamma?

I also think you're the only one who wants to lynch me.

[Jodaxq]

I'm Joey - so Joda can come up with a better case

It's not a case and I said outright that I don't have anything. It's paranoia based on my scum reads acting town. If the people in my scum pool start convincing me they're town, I need to look elsewhere. Unfortunately, elsewhere means I'm looking to people who I was pretty certain were town.
I've been in games where the very obviously super town player turned out to be scum. I'm not saying this is necessarily the case here, but I would feel pretty bad if I had this feeling, it turned out to be true, and I didn't share it with the game.

[Jodaxq]

I see your argument, Mark. I just don't buy it. I don't think Shaz is SK.

[Jodaxq]

BuJaber, what do you doubt about my claim?

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: World Religion: Taoism x3

[Jodaxq]

OTM was the perfect replacement for Titus.

[Jodaxq]

Scum killing A50 may be somewhat bad, but it's not THAT bad. It's not so bad that it's just not an option. People can make odd/bad decisions for all types of reasons.

[Jodaxq]

Screw it, I'm not waiting. Joey told me in the Neighborhood last night that he had commuted Night 2. Therefore, he had not commute on Night 3.

OTM's theory is full of shit.

I feel like this should have come out sooner.

[Jodaxq]

Joda, where is your head at in terms of scumreads right now?

I'm pretty unsure about OTM but I'm leaning scum. Chara's argument about them being town makes sense, but I find it hard to believe that this kind of logic comes from two different people in the same slot unless the slot is scum.

I'm not sold on Klazam scum. It's just a feeling I have about his defiance of Joey when making his claim. I think scum would be much more willing to submit to a mass claim, especially if they were just going to claim VT.

I think BuJaber, Shaziro, and Gamma are town due to their claims or the way that they claimed.

I want to think one of Marshy and Pidgey is scum due to there likely being an orange religion spreader. If I had to choose I'd pick Marshy. I find both their posting townie though and if A50 was killed by scum it's more likely both of them are town.

That leaves Chara, Thor, and you. Chara and Thor's slot have very town by play but as I've said before I'm paranoid of them due to my other scum reads starting to look more town. I scum read your slot early and it's looking better now. You are still first in my POE pool.

[Jodaxq]

I cannot believe that orange wouldn't have a kill. How could that possibly be balanced?

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: OnTheMark

I've said before that I'm not excited about a Klazam lynch.

[Jodaxq]

It's interesting to see that someone else is growing suspicious of the Joey_ slot. Thor doesn't get lynched today obviously but it needs to be talked about in later days.

[Jodaxq]

I don't buy the 4 man orange team theory. Red wouldn't be close to being balanced. And also I doubt Varsoon is certain of a multiball game if his team were four people.

[Jodaxq]

There hasn't really been much else that's new. This day has run its course I believe.

Also sad to see Gamma go.

[Jodaxq]

@MOD :
Can mafia use the night kill + an abilitiy?
Can mafia use the night kill + an ability if they are the last member of their faction?

A player cannot perform two actions, factional or not, at once.

In general, I have upheld Venmar's internal logic for the sake of continuity, but I disagreed with this ruling and made my own decision regarding this question. Scum who are the last living member of their faction would have been permitted to perform a role action (if they had one) and their Factional Kill during the same Night phase.

Also, votecount modifiers (such as Hated) are removed in a Lynch Or Lose scenario.

So given this new information, is it possible that Chara made both kills?

[Jodaxq]

I also confirm that I was converted to Catholicism

[Jodaxq]

Joda claim whatever yah got.

I don't know what I have. I roleblocked Thor last night. I feel like this either clears him or implicates him if Chara made both kills. I feel like he would. Why wouldn't you use both your factional kill and strongman kill if you could?

[Jodaxq]

That's not how strongman works.

I don't understand

[Jodaxq]

VOTE: marshy

[Jodaxq]

HEAL: brassherald x3

[Jodaxq]

Legitimately forgot this game was still ongoing more than a few times.

I did the same and I'm really sorry to everyone here about it. I think my internet issues on D1 really killed my motivation to get involved and super interested because I was never 1000% caught up

[Jodaxq]

I hope marshy is the last scum. If not then I do think it's BuJaber. I don't know how he can go from "sorry jodax I forgot you tracked Gamma and claimed in a townie way." to "Does anyone have a town case on jodax?"

[Jodaxq]

Good game everyone. I wish I would have contributed more

[Jodaxq]

Haha after reading through the PTs I realize how much of a ghost I was this game. I don't think I was mentioned, at all, in any of them. I know I've said it several times now but I am very sorry for my inactivity and I will be more active in future games.

I was certainly expecting to get killed at some point with me being an investigative (and arguably the more townie of them), and I'm still surprised that I was not. Unfortunately I didn't really do anything with my role either so lol.

Good game, everyone. Despite everything I wouldn't hesitate to play with any of you again.

[Jodaxq]

Maestro, I appreciate you a ton for taking over as the mod for this game. It couldn't have been easy and I apologize for making things harder by not responding to you in a timely manner. Thank you for being accommodating to me time-wise